Nnamdi Asomugha, other Raiders on trading block
by medicineball on Feb 23, 2010 4:55 PM CST
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The Raiders are attempting to "unload" players, reports ESPN's Adam Schefter and NBC's Pro Football Talk, including the famous shutdown cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha. While Asmogha would cost the Vikings a great deal of money, probably around $15 million per year, for the right trade, he is out there. There is no salary cap in 2010.
While skepticism exists on other trades and moves, such as picking up LaDainian Tomlinson, if the Vikings traded for one of the NFL's top cornerbacks in Nnamdi Asomugha, the only question would be what the Raiders ask for him. Or would it?
Let's start the bidding.
This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.
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What the Hell the NFL is having a
NBA like 2011 (Or 2010 not sure) offseason right now!
Favre + 3 = ❼ = Vikings= 2009-2010 NFL Champions= New Stadium=Greatest Fans and Team!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 23, 2010 5:09 PM CST reply actions
Michael Bush
The other guy on the Raiders that I like is Michael Bush. He averaged 4.8 yards per carry for the Raiders in 2009, and caught 17 passes. The downside is he fumbled three times. If we can’t keep Chester Taylor, we should look at Michael Bush.
If we could get Moss and Asomugha, I wouldn’t mind at all having only a 2nd, 4th and later rounds picks.
Even more because this draft is filled with talent, so we could get ourselves a nice player in late picks.
And with Brett and CT back, and Moss and Asomugha coming in, our first Lombardi Trophy will be at the reach of our hands.
SKÖL VIKINGS!
SHOW YOUR HORNS!
With the young emerging Viking recievers and
the money you would have to pay Moss wouldn’t that money be better spent elsewhere? Ah maybe I’m crazy the guy did lead the league in recieving TDs. Actually in an un-capped year, uh, I don’t know. I’m sitting on the fence on this one.
Would Moss help the young Viking recievers get better?
Hard one(loss) to swallow, thats what she said.
That's why we'll give them our 3rd pick too.
We’re going to burn our 1st on a CB anyway.
we’ll draft a RG with the 2nd pick
a LB with the 4th,
and whatever with the 5th. :)
Raiders will want a heck of a lot more than the 29th pick for Nnamdi.
And I doubt Beeeeelichek will give Moss up for less than a second rounder as well.
Nice ideas, but we need a long-term QB solution before we start spending picks on luxuries. Besides, do we REALLY want Moss on this team? At his age he is marginally better than Sidney.
by Bjorno on Feb 23, 2010 6:37 PM CST via mobile reply actions
And...
“do we REALLY want Moss on this team? At his age he is marginally better than Sidney.”
Exactly. That’s why we want him. Two Sidneys!
OK, seriously, you may be right about this not working. But let me make the case for the Raiders trade working.
The Raiders give up Asmougha, and in return the Vikings take on his salary. The Vikings 30th pick is very valuable this year with the deep draft. They could pick up a player like Sean Weatherspoon or Bruce Campbell in the draft with that pick. Blue chip player for likely blue chip player. Plus the player they get is younger.
by medicineball on Feb 23, 2010 7:07 PM CST up reply actions
Nnamdi is the type of strong character that I would love to have on this team. He is smart, kind and the type of player any coach or coordinator dreams about.
The problem is that we need a QB much more than another CB. Considering the value of our pick, it would be smarter imho to trade up for a viable starting QB.
If we give up that pick for nnamdi, where would that leave us in the hunt for a qb?
by Bjorno on Feb 23, 2010 7:18 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Could.
Could.
That word looks weird by itself. But it is the key word in that statement.
We need to address the QB position right now. We cannot spend another year wondering who our guy will be, we need to get him in the system now so he can hit the ground running when we need him.
by Bjorno on Feb 23, 2010 7:58 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Question is how would he do it this year
Use the 30th pick on a QB? I think your smoking something. There is no real way to get to the higher quality QB’s in this draft. However, we do need more depth at CB. Espectially since I don’t think Ced will be coming back by the beginning of the year. This guy looks pretty tough, remember as well he has a HUGE price tag on him that is going to make most teams leary of signing him as well. Good news for us (bad for Wilfs pocket book) is that we can afford him this year, and next year we’ll be losing a couple very highly paid players that should allow us to handle him better. (as well we can always renegotiate the contract)
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Nowhere did I say we would draft a QB, only that we need to address the position this year.
That could mean trading for a current NFL QB or trading up in the draft; either way, it needs to be done sooner rather than later.
We have a relatively small window of opportunity with the talent we have. AP is going to last 6-7 years tops, and we are already three years into that timeframe. Not addressing the QB position this offseason will severely hamper any real run at the super
bowl after the upcoming season.
by Bjorno on Feb 25, 2010 6:54 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Oh I agree with you 100%
I just can’t see a way to make it work. We’re never going to be in the position to take a top tier QB in the draft, there aren’t any great QB’s looking for a home either. So it’s just going to be throwing darts blind folded, and that just doesn’t seem like a winning plan unless your really good a throwing darts (or you cheat and peek a bit)
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
There are no viable starting QBs in this draft.
“The problem is” rarely is any rookie QB viable and by viable I assume you mean decent. If a rookie starts and throws more INTs than TDs he isn’t viable. The QB draft class is better next year, draft a QB then.
Hard one(loss) to swallow, thats what she said.
What are you basing that off of?
How do you know there are no viable starting QBs in the draft?
Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
Oh, and with a name like “Bruce Campbell” we should put all of our resources into drafting that guy.
Shop smart…
by Bjorno on Feb 23, 2010 7:20 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Hey he's got a BOOM stick.
And a way with the ladies.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Those who take the biggest risks, take the biggest rewards.
Moss is one of this cases for me.
And about Asomugha, don’t forget the Raiders are owned by Al Davis, we can make a pretty awesome deal, given that we know how to negotiate and he doesn’t.
SKÖL VIKINGS!
SHOW YOUR HORNS!
Good point.
Let’s trade some college sprinters for Nnamdi, if they can run a sub-4.3 fourty we might even be able to get a second rounder as well!
by Bjorno on Feb 23, 2010 7:59 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Alright you primative screwheads, listen up!
They could pick up a player like Sean Weatherspoon or Bruce Campbell in the draft with that pick.
Campbell sounds groovy, but does the NFL allow boom-sticks on the field? If so, I’m all for it!
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Fantasy
I doubt very seriously that the Vikings can take on his salary with the current revenue stream situation that Wilf is in. He is already losing money or barely breaking even by signing all the players he has been signing like Allen, Berrian, Madieu, Favre, etc. The value of the franchise has gone up some but he can only get the profit once he sells the team. When the Rams sell for less than Forbes valued them at then we will see how much more Wilf is going to spend.
It is funny to see comments about this being an uncapped year and we will spend all of this money. Wilf is the one who has to spend it and he is not like Jerra Jones or Dan Snyder. His pockets are not as deep.
One other thing to keep in mind is even though there is no cap this year, there will be one when they come up with a new CBA and then if a team goes crazy they may have to cut some people they just acquired to get back under the cap. I am expecting the cap number to go down from about 128 mil now to about 116 mil when the new CBA is agreed upon. Any team over that number will have some work to do IMHO.
I would love to have Namdi though.
I just wonder if the Final 4 teams can trade for any players with large salaries?
It's Zygi's money
He will decide how to spend it.We’re just fans. It’s easy for us to “spend” other people’s money. I know what you’re saying. As for Moss, we can pass on him if that is what it takes. If we add Asomugha, our cornerback position goes from a question mark to an exclamation point. It’s huge. It would mean big things for this team.
If Favre returns in 2010 and the Vikings acquire Asomugha, the Vikings will have a large payroll in 2010. But in 2011 Favre will be retired. Pat Williams will be reitred. Other stuff will probably happen. The payroll will be less in 2011 and would be under the cap even with Asomugha.
by medicineball on Feb 24, 2010 12:14 AM CST up reply actions
Maybe
Here is NNamdi’s contract numbers …
2/19/2009: Signed a three-year, $45.3 million contract. The first two years, totaling $28.6 million, are fully guaranteed. Another $4.7 million is available through incentives. To keep Asomugha through 2011, the Raiders must pay him either the franchise number for quarterbacks that year OR $16.875 million, whichever number is greater. If the club fails to exercise the option, Asomugha cannot be franchise tagged and will become an unrestricted free agent. 2010: $755,000 (+ $8 million roster bonus due 3/5 + $7.83 million option bonus due 3/19), 2011: $2.105 million (Club Option), 2012: $3.455 million (Voidable Years), 2013: $4.805 million, 2014: $6.155 million, 2015: Free Agent
As you can see the Raiders have to cough up almost 16 mil next month to him. This is probably the main reason they want to let him go. He is 28 now. He will be 29 to start the year. His will still be owed about 17 mil in 2011 or be a UFA. That is 33 mil right off the bat. I think the Vikings can offer about 26 mil guaranteed and 40 mil over the next 4 years. Maybe a little higher for longer years.
But what can they offer in exchange? They could offer the #30 pick but that may not be enough.
I would start with these offers …
Ray Edwards and Madieu Williams plus a second next year
Ray Edwards and Bryant McKinnie and they give us a 5th round pick too
Ray Edwards and our #30 this year and we get back a 3rd or 4th this year
I think they will want the pick though so option 3 sounds about right.
But they are in a tough position. They have to pay the cash.
I think the #30 and a conditional pick next year may do it.
But when you mention the salaries for 2011 and how Favre and PWill will be retired do not forget that we have to give Rice, Greenway, & AP new deals by then too.
Looks like the Raiders do not want to spend the cash this year and want lower picks.
I think I would ultimately offer them this …
They give us #7 and NNamdi for #30, 2011 1st, Ray Edwards, & Bryant McKinnie.
I see where your going with this.
If your proposal would be acceptable to the raiders the vikings get
1) A top 2 QB with the #7 pick
2) A top rated experienced CB
3) We keep the remaining 7 draft picks for this year to help replace Ray and McKinney
The Vikings end up paying for a rookie QB and a high priced CB.
The trade could be done on draft day where the trade is only effective if the Raiders draft Clausen or Bradford. I like the concept. Three contingencies; The coaching staff has to be sold on Clausen or Bradford , Asomugha must fit in with our defensive scheme
( no one has talked about that), and Ziggy would have to be willing to pay this huge amount.
Great idea to obtain a Franchise QB
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 24, 2010 6:53 AM CST up reply actions
left tackle
The Vikings would need a left tackle if McKinnie is traded. The ones in this draft are not as good as McKinnie. That would leave the Vikings the disadvantage. I would leave McKinnie out of the deal, and they can keep their #7 pick. Also, I think we should keep Ray Edwards if possible.
We should trade for Asomugha with only a draft pick or picks. The player he is replacing on the roster is Karl Paymah. I don’t think we should make the trade if we need to trade one or more current starters.
by medicineball on Feb 24, 2010 8:03 AM CST up reply actions
Not even to get a Franchise QB? You have to give something to get something.
I’m only agreeing that this is an idea to obtain one of the top 2 QBs. To me that is one giant step for the future. That doesn’t mean I believe the coaches want one of these top two QBs. I want to keep Ray and McKinnie too. But I would consider moving them if we were to get the Franchise QB of the Future.
Now if my man T-Jack is the answer then I just want to pick at #30 and find my own Asomugha in the draft. Don’t trade. Just make good picks.
But the QB spot is so important. But you know my line. On March 5,2010 we will know exactly what the coaching staff feels about T-Jack. I’m patient.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 24, 2010 9:22 AM CST up reply actions
Exactly
You do have to give something to get something.
We could do the last deal of #7 and Nnamdi for #30, 2011 1st, Ray Edwards, & Bryant McKinnie.
If Clausen is there we take Clausen and let him sit behind Brett for a year or maybe two. The Vikings could then hope to get Jason Fox or Roger Saffold in round 2 and John Jerry or Kyle Calloway in round 3. I would get two offensive linemen. They then could get Mike Neal or Arthur Jones or Torrell Troup or Vince Oghobaase or Linval Joseph in round 4, CJ Wilson in round 5, Myron Lewis with the comp pick, Andrew Quarless or Jim Dray in round 6, and maybe John Connor in round 7.
I would even take Russell Okung or Anthony Davis at #8. They may like a different QB in this draft like Jevan Snead or Dan LeFevour or Tony Pike. But they would get a Pro Bowl CB and a rookie stud OT. I like this a little better than the QBs unless Clausen was there.
Having said all of this though it is not likely Favre will be too thrilled with McKinnie being traded no matter how dumb he is at times. IMHO Loadholt can do just as good a job as McKinnie on the left side. He played this side in college and I think he can do it if necessary in the NFL. If we drafted John Jerry, Jason Fox,or Kyle Calloway, one of those guys could man the right side.
I think the likely trade would be #30 & Edwards.
But I think that is too much though.
I would hope to do Edwards and a second.
Oakland is not in a very good bargaining position.
Not McKinnie
I can live with losing Edwards, he’s a gamble right now. He might be all-pro material, he might not, and if he is, the Raiders will make out big.
But letting go of McKinnie without having an equal or better replacement waiting to step up, when we’ve already proved that we don’t have anyone better than Hicks in the backup OL corps, would be suicidal. No matter who takes the snaps, that QB has GOT to be given some protection or it’s going to be a long, painful year. The Vikings need to bring in at least 2 top-quality O-linemen this year, not just 1.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Perspective
The goal should be to add, not subtract. Let’s not confuse the issues. The issue here is cornerback. The issue is not quarterback, left tackle, or defensive end.
Adding Asomugha for draft compensation, like a 1st round this year, and maybe a 3rd round pick in 2011, makes sense. It would add to the team.
Trading away two starters, however, would subtract from the team.
Even if we draft a new left tackle with the 7th overall pick, the loss of McKinnie would result in a talent decline at left tackle. At that point, we might as well start dumping players and rebuild. Yet, we all but defeated the eventual Super Bowl champions in the conference championship game. We were that close. This is not a rebuilding year. This is a year to add a piece here or there, continue to build depth in the draft, and position ourselves for a Super Bowl run.
I know people are taken in with Bradford and Clausen, but neither of them are really 1st round picks. Both could easily be busts. Neither are as good as Matthew Stafford, and he wasn’t as good as Matt Ryan. Quarterbacks are overvalued in the draft, and we should not mortgage the future on Bradford or Clausen.
The best quarterback prospect in the draft is probably Colt McCoy, and he is by no means a sure thing. This year is a bad one to draft quarterbacks. That’s why we should wait until the 5th or 6th round to draft one. We don’t need to waste another high draft pick on a bust quarterback like John David Booty.
In terms of left tackles, Russell Okung, Oklahoma State, is good, but he is not another D’Brickashaw Ferguson, Ryan Clady, or Joe Thomas. Okung will almost definitely be gone before the 7th overall pick. It is almost an absolute lock that he will be drafted by one of the Lions, Bucs, Redskins, Chiefs, or Seahawks, or some other team trading up to get him. If we want Okung, we would have to make a trade with one of those teams.
Anthony Davis, Rutgers, plays only when he wants to play, which isn’t all the time.
Bryan Bulaga, Iowa, has a thyroid condition that could very severely shorten his career. It’s an unknown.
Charles Brown, USC, weighs only 285 lbs. I think he could be a great left tackle but he probably needs to add weight. He does understand the zone-blocking scheme very well, at least.
Bruce Campbell, Maryland, is very raw. He’s another freak athlete who might be good in the NFL, but probably ends up drafted in the late 1st round anyway. We don’t need to draft him 7th overall by any stretch.
Even if all of these concerns are addressed, we still have the issue of offensive line continuity. Most likely Herrera will be challenged for his job, and could quite possibly lose it to Jon Cooper or a player we get in the draft. Ryan Cook will also be challenged, while Hicks will most likely keep his job. If we lose Herrera and Cook that is change to the continuity right there which is a risk. If we also lose McKinnie, our entire offensive line continuity will be in jeopardy. This issue by itself pretty much prevents us from considering a trade involving McKinnie.
On Ray Edwards, we should remember that starting NFL defensive ends don’t grow on trees. Defensive ends typically don’t come out of the draft and win a starting job as a rookie. The “final 8 rule” severely limits our ability to get a Julius Peppers or even an Aaron Kampman. By far the most inexpensive and effective option we have at left defensive end is to keep Ray Edwards on the team, and tender the maximum value on him (1st and 3rd round picks). That assures the Vikings that he will be in the line-up this year.
Brian Robison is really a 3-4 outside linebacker. He is not stout enough to be a starter at 4-3 defensive end. He is a valued asset on the Vikings as a pass rush specialist, and backup defensive end, but that is his role, and nothing more.
If we gut our offensive line and/or defensive line to get a cornerback, we are seriously damaging this team. For that reason I wouldn’t make the trade if that’s what it involved.
At cornerback, there is room to add a player. Karl Paymah will not return to the Vikings in all probability. His spot can be taken by Asomugha. Nnamdi can play left cornerback. Asher Allen can play right cornerback. Winfield moves to strong safety. Sapp is re-signed and plays nickel. When Cedric returns and is able to, he can take over the right cornerback spot again. This is simple and it would work. If we only give the Raiders a draft pick or two for Asomugha then we don’t have all of the other risks. We just add to the team.
Keep the team together, and add to it.
by medicineball on Feb 24, 2010 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
Booty
Booty was a 5th rounder. Thus he really isn’t a bust.
by medicineball on Feb 24, 2010 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
The only problem with adding the highest paid player on the team
is the effect that has on other players. All of a sudden Brett/ Jared/ AP start to feel a little undervalued. Sometimes you can lose by adding a player.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 24, 2010 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
Dont hate the playa hate the game
Brett will be in his last year and CBs make more than RBs and pretty close to DEs. They all are getting paid what the market would bear for them at the time they got their deals. It is as it should be.
Jared Allen
made $21 million from the Vikings last year. I don’t know what the figure is next year. Favre is scheduled to make $13 million next year plus an unknown amount from endorsements.
AD is another story, but he will get a new contract at some point that could be quite a lot.
by medicineball on Feb 24, 2010 1:30 PM CST up reply actions
Assumptions
MM, it is obvious that you are fearful of changing any of the players on the team from all of the posts I have read of yours. I would say that some of your views on players are not really views but statements as if they are facts.
You say Clausen and the other QBs are not as good as Stafford.
OK lets see …
Stafford’sstats are 564 comp out of 986 attempts for 7,731 yards resulting in a 57.2 comp percentage with 51TDs and 33 INTs and a QB rating of 133.4 and he rushed 141 times for 213 yards and 6 TDs.
Clausen’s stats are 695 comp out of 1110 attempts for 8,148 yards resulting in a 62.6 comp percentage with 60 TDs and 27 INTs and a QB rating of 137.2 and he rushed 175 times for -355 yards and 5 TDs.
Bradford’s stats are 604 comp out of 893 attempts for 8,403 yards resulting in a 67.6 comp percentage with 88 TDs and 16 INTs and a QB rating of 175.6 and he rushed 77 times for 36 yards and 5 TDs.
Tebow’s stats are 661 comp out of 995 attempts for 9,285 yards resulting in a 66.4 comp percentage with 88 TDs and 16 INTs and a QB rating of 170.8 and he rushed 692 times for 2947 yards and 57 TDs.
Colt McCoy’s stats are 1157 comp out of 1645 attempts for 13,253 yards resulting in a 70.3 comp percentage with 112 TDs and 45 INTs and a QB rating of 170.8 and he rushed 447 times for 1571 yards and 20 TDs.
Now to be fair Stafford played in the SEC and not in the same type of offense as the rest. But Clausen did not have nearly as much talent as Stafford.
Tebow played in the SEC and he is clearly better than Stafford or any of the rest IMO. All of this stuff about his throwing motion, footwork, etc, is a bunch of BS. He played QB in the SEC and did it better than Stafford or any of the rest. He will find a way to get it done. He also will have a huge chip on his shoulder to prove everybody wrong. If it was up to me I would trade up for Tebow.
You act as if McKinnie is really good when in fact he is nothing more than above average. The only reason he went to the Pro Bowl this year was because others were injured. He was benched this year after getting beat like a rag doll by Peppers and almost getting Favre killed. I do not know of too many Pro Bowl LTs that get pulled from a game yet still are a Pro Bowler.
You then claim that Okung is not as good as other tackles that were drafted highly based on what I do not know. He was All American just like the others so none of know for sure just how good he will or will not be. The rest of the tackles may or may not be good but no one knows for sure.
I don’t know what you watched last year to give the impression that Cooper can beat out Herrera let alone keep off of the practice squad if the Vikings draft a John Jerry or Kyle Calloway. He is undersized and went undrafted.
You claim Robison is a 3-4 OLB when he weighs as much as Edwards, played DE at Texas, plays DE here and plays DT on passing downs a lot but he is not “stout” enough. I do not remember when teams started to put OLBs on the defensive line to rush over the guards. That statement is clearly not true and misleading.
I am predicting that Edwards will be playing for another team next year. I do not believe they will get a new contract worked out and if they tender him as you suggest, they will lose him for nothing next year.
But if they could trade picks only to get Nnamdi then I am all for it as long as it is only our first this year and a pick next year.
Thats a little unfair Mark!
MB made a good point about us having a small window (1 year) of opportunity at winning the Super Bowl without rebuilding this team. He thinks we could have won this year and he believes we can win next year. He has an excellent point that adding players is a positive but removing key players could be a negative. You are talking about our starting DE and our Starting Left Tackle. Teams like the raiders will be using very high draft picks to find a “possible” starting left tackle.
He doesn’t happen to believe the top 2 QBs this year are “franchise” guys. He could be right.
You believe you can lose a left tackle, make changes, and still win the superbowl. You could be right.
But your way is more risky than his. That, I don’t believe is debatable. He has agreed with you that picking up a highly rated CB is a positive. He simply wants to use picks and cash, not players.
I say giving up future picks is a fools game unless you are getting a “franchise QB”. To me the risk is to high.
But all in all everyone post pretty good reasons for their opinions. I include you in that statement. You have made several posts where you suggest we change the player makeup of the team. Fans often react strongly to these comments since they feel invested in the Viking Players. I’m simply asking that you give them the courtesy and respect a Viking deserves when you respond to a post.
Remember you are the one that starts these threads. They are interesting ( although often fanciful) but they do have an effect on all of the Viking fans. Thanks.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 24, 2010 1:09 PM CST up reply actions
I see what you are saying and I did not mean to disrespect MM.
I am only replying to some things that I do not think are true and in regards to Robison are really not true IMO.
To call Robison an OLB when he has played DE and DT here and DE in college is quite a stretch. I am sure that if Robison were to read that he would say that it is BS.
All I was trying to do was point out some things that support the opposite side of his views IMO.
All is good. I really just wanted everyone to remember that
we are all in this for the same reason. To support our team and to try and win the Super bowl. Respect for each others views make this a much better site than most.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 25, 2010 6:34 AM CST up reply actions
Robinson as OLB
I actually would like to see for the sake of experimentation how good B-Rob would be at OLB. Hes got the speed to play the position, is just as strong if not more so than Leber and Greenway, Hes much faster than Leber. And he can generate a good pass Rush. Leber Cant.
You guys don’t play in a 3-4 system though..Putting him as a true OLB in a 4-3 system would be a terrible, terrible move. Did you see Kampman at all for us as a 3-4 OLB? Pass rush was fine but out in coverage he looked awfully uncomfortable. And in the 4-3 the OLBs spend much more time in coverage then 3-4 OLBs do.
by packallday555 on Feb 26, 2010 12:14 AM CST up reply actions
Nice set of points
I guess we disagree about pretty much all of that, but I see what you are saying. We just happen to see it differently.
by medicineball on Feb 24, 2010 1:34 PM CST up reply actions
+1 on moving Winfield to Safety
Can we rid ourselves of Madieu Williams? He was a waist of money. I don’t blame them for getting him b/c you have to take risks. This one just didn’t work out. 8.7 million 2009 salary!?! Ouch!
Hard one(loss) to swallow, thats what she said.
I have read many posts saying Madieu was a major issue for us.
But the defensive stats were much better this year with him on the team. Can someone with more knowledge than me explain why he appears to be a problem or why he isn’t an issue?
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 25, 2010 6:36 AM CST up reply actions
I don't think he's as big of an issue as people make him out to be.
Giving the system the Vikings use, the Tampa-2, the safeties are just that – safeties. They are deep as deep, giving over the top help to the corners on deep threats (most of the time). Lots of people expect Darren Sharper-like results like interceptions for touchdowns and all that. Fact is, in this scheme, it’s much harder for safeties to make those kind of plays. Instead, they help. They are a sort of deep last resort.
He didn’t make a ton of plays, but how many teams beat Minnesota deep? Not as many. At worst, the safety play was average. Is that good enough for his salary? I don’t know, I can’t make that judgement, but this team got the Vikings to the NFC Championship, so I’m not complaining.
Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
I will say this
I always saw him around the tackle, just not always making it.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
coverage
Madieu’s primary advantage for the Vikings is coverage of receivers. He’s not the best tackling safety in the league, but he is not terrible at tackling, and he is good at coverage. It would be nice to see him taking better angles in run support. If he fixed that, it would be a big deal for the team.
by medicineball on Feb 25, 2010 10:24 AM CST up reply actions
Madieu Williams
I don’t think it’s so much that he’s a major issue (except for the high salary), as it is that he’s a disappointment. When he was brought in, there were high expectations that he would be the new anchor safety that would fix the secondary issues. He performed at a high level in the second half of his first year with the Vikes, but last year he was… lackluster. Just not very impressive, I suppose.
You’re right, the secondary did a much better job last year, but it wasn’t because Madieu was a stand-out. It was more because Griff and Sapp both stepped up, and we started getting some good production out of Asher and Jamarca towards the end.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
salary is not that bad
The Vikings are front-loading salaries. This helps with the salary cap. I’m not sure about Madieu Williams’ contract, but if it follows this pattern, he will earn less and less for each successive year of the contract.
The one downside for this is to get the value for your investment, you need to hold the player for the whole contract. Otherwise you ended up overpaying him for the early years of the contract.
With Madieu, if we cut him, we would have wasted a lot of money. If we play him, or trade him, then we get the value of the investment.
by medicineball on Feb 25, 2010 10:22 AM CST up reply actions
Personally i like front loading salaries
If you want to trade them later they usually will get you a better deal, and if you have a player who’s doing great you don’t have to worry about the balloon when he’s finishing up his contract. AKA Nnamdi or whatever. It will be interesting to see how much AD is offered.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Scenarios
Good point..
If we traded off Bernard (A highly paid receiver), acquired Moss. I think the payroll wouldn’t take too much of a hit. Bernard has been suspectible to injury (Hamstring). Favre would love the opportunity to throw to Moss. This would put the coverage to a near constant One on One. (Moss/Rice would have to nearly always be open at one point). If for some reason you couldn’t throw to either, you would always have Shiancoe or Harvin to have make big plays.
If we could acquire a great CB – that would help us defensively.
I highly doubt that we would have such a high salary with a few Big names very Likely leaving (i.e., Favre, Pat, etc. )
I think this would & could be the year to maybe spend a little bit more to get something done.
A return of Moss would also be great for the reason I think a lot of Jersey Sales would go crazy and tickets would sell easily.
I believe we can trade for players.
The final 8 rule only applies to unrestricted free agents. Players who have been cut or who’s contracts are not expiring are free game for the final 8 teams. The size of the salary has no bearing on the trade status of a player.
We can expect some teams to shed high salaries and some teams to take them on in an uncapped year. Your warning of a capped year in the future is a good warning for all fans to keep in mind.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 24, 2010 6:39 AM CST up reply actions
The Vikings really don't need to trade for anyone.
Minnesota has a very solid team. It has been drafting well, and the Vikings have good, young players waiting to step up.
With the 30th pick, Minnesota should attempt to solve the future QB problem, or if nothing is present, take the best player available or trade down.
Player trades don’t happen very often, at least of this calibur. Jay Cutler was a huge anomaly last year. I’m not surprised Oakland is trying to gain more picks, considering how dismal they are. However, I really don’t see Minnesota, or many teams at all for that matter, making any sort of blockbuster trade. Neat to think about, but don’t expect much.
Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
You are correct. We do draft well. Problem is that mose experts don't believe a Franchise QB will be there at #30.
Might not be there at #7. But we can be a perennial winning team if we just keep drafting well.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 24, 2010 9:24 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed.
If there’s no Colt McCoy or anyone worthy of the #30 pick for QB, either take another position or trade down into the second to pick up a QB worth the second round slot. Minnesota needs to get SOMEONE to develop, regardless of Favre coming back or not.
I’ve become a firm believer in winning through the draft, with a few big free agent signings or trades. If you have no depth, you have no team.
Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
Good draft plan on getting a QB.
Unfortunately history shows everyone that only 50% of the first round picks become “franchise QBs” and that percentage gets lower and lower with each successive round. Basically if you don’t take a first rounder you have a about a one in ten shot at a decent starting QB.
In other words the “experts” are more right than wrong. So in this matter we have to trust our scouting staff and put our faith in them. If they find what they believe is the future we need to support them in that effort. This team ,so far, has identified T-Jack, Thigpen, and Booty to draft. All three are still on active roster status in the NFL.. I think they know what to look for. Just a matter of hitting it right.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 24, 2010 1:48 PM CST up reply actions
Don't I know it.
It’s a total gamble either way. I would just feel much better taking a risk with a higher pick on a QB. Especially when the team itself is so good, and (assuming) Favre comes back, that gives whoever time to develop for at least a year. I just hope that Minnesota gets a QB in the first or second to develop for later. The future must be addressed now, regardless of who takes snaps under center ths year.
Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
I feel your pain.
My point is that if one of the Qbs in this draft don’t grade out then we should Not take him.It is a wasted draft pick. Now first off I like T-Jack and I hope the staff thinks he is the guy. If so. OK by me. I can use the pick for some other position. If not then I hope they find some gem like Robinson or Skelton or Crompton or Stull. Heck figure they only have a one in ten shot of getting one. So, take the chance on whoever you grade out. You can only address the future if you have the proper tools.
I just don’t want them to reach and waste one of our three top draft picks.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 24, 2010 2:49 PM CST up reply actions
Got ya.
Totally agree. Don’t reach. I completely am on the same page. That’s why I say if no QB is there, but there’s one ten picks down, go ahead and trade out. Then take him. I just want a QB with a first or second round grade. That’s probably a more accurate way to say it.
Yeah, we’re on the same page regarding the draft. Although not so much on Tarvaris. I always want the bastard to do well, but I think drafting is necessary at this point.
Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
Asomugha is more than worth trading for.
He is a top 5 corner in the league!
Hard one(loss) to swallow, thats what she said.
Drafting well?
I keep seeing these comments from people about how the TOA drafts so well. And I am not singling you out LL. It is just a place to respond.
They traded up to get Tyrell giving up a 4th and bypassing DeSean Jackson. Then in the same draft they traded up to get John David Booty, selected Letroy Guion, Jaymar Johnson, & John Sullivan. I would say the jury is still out on that draft.
In 2006 they got Greenway, Griffin, Cook, TJack, Edwards, & Greg Blue
In 2007 they got AP, Rice, Marcus McCauley, Robison, Aundrae Allison, Rufus Alexander, Tyler Thigpen, & Chandler Williams
In 2008 they got Jared Allen, Tyrell, Booty, Guion, Sullivan, & Jaymar
In 2009 they got Harvin, Loadholt, Allen, Brinkley, & Sanford.
I think they are hitting on about 50% of their picks with most (but not all) of the top picks contributing significantly.
Maybe it is not there fault since they have been trying to rebuild the roster including depth positions.
I wouldn’t crown their asses just yet!
Hitting on 50% of picks is pretty amazing.
Saying they passed on DeSean Jackson is slightly unfair. Receivers are so hit and miss in the draft. They are, historically, the hardest position to adjust to. I think the average is about three years to become regular contributors. DeSean Jackson is the exception. Harvin is another. It seems to be a bit easier now, but still, that’s almost like saying, “Hey, you passed on Tom Brady! WTF were you thinking?”
The draft is 50% knowing who you’re getting, 50% luck.
Getting production out of almost all your top picks is hugely successful. I mean, Minnesota was in the NFC Championship game, with lots of those people you mentioned being heavy contributors.
Minnesota has drafted extremely well lately. No doubt about that.
Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
I Give them an A
By your records they have 7 out of 8 of their first two picks each year is now a starter.
That is incredible. Any draft pick beyond the third round that makes your team is considered pure gravy and a great value. Now I grant that they had a long way to go after 2005. But to do this well and go to the NFC Championship game is by far a great achievement.
Now to be absolutely honest I don’t count the Jared Allen trade as a draft pick even though we gave up picks for him. I don’t care if they move up or down in the draft. Moved down for Rice. Up for TJack. When your moving in the middle rounds you are always going to move past players you have not rated high. I say that Every single team passed on Deshawn Jackson three times. Last year it was Austin Collie. I think you have to look at the results of what a team has accomplished. I find no team in the league with a 7 out of 8 starters record except for the Vikes. Maybe I’m mistaken but that sounds good to me.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 24, 2010 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
Collie isnt that good tho.
Put him on the bills or raiders and he most definatly wouldnt be considered that good.
50% is not bad.
Pulling two rookies of the year out is damn site awesome though.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
I agree
We definitely won’t trade for Asomugha. It’d be awesome to get him, but it won’t happen. What would be more likely, in my opinion, is that we sign Dunta Robinson, the Texans CB, since he’s hitting FA this season and they aren’t going to franchise him again. He’s not as good as Asomugha, but he is a starter-quality CB and he could be the guy that pushes Winfield to a nickle role, which he seems to prefer anyhow.
Not going to happen because he is a UFA
Dunta wants to get paid. We cannot sign any UFA or RFA until one of our own players get signed somewhere else. And we have nobody who is going to get close to what Dunta wants to make.
The trade is the only option. In fact there are not too many free agents that are UFAs that would be worth getting. Most are RFAs.
And Winfield does not want to playing nickel because his contract specifically states that if he is relegated to being the nickel CB his salary will be reduced. Do you think he prefers the nickel and less money? I don’t.
Right, we’ll be losing CT. Which gives us a chance to pick up Dunta.
And I didn’t know Winfield’s contract had that clause in there, but I could see him thriving in the nickel anyhow.
I hope if Ray leaves someone pays his ass 10 mil a year..
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
If it isn't broke, don't fix it
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
The problem is
Our secondary IS broken.
Both our starting CBs are better S than CBs, and they are both injured, so we don’t know how they will be for next season.
SKÖL VIKINGS!
SHOW YOUR HORNS!
What are you basing that off of?
How are they better safeties than corners? Yes, Antoine was injured, but with an entire offseason, one would think he would be okay, and Benny Sapp filled in fine for Winfield when he was out. Throw in the young Winfield v.2.00 (Asher) and a monster pass rush, and Minnesota’s secondary, while certainly not insane, is more than capable.
Yes, the safeties didn’t make a ton of plays. Tyrell did much better near the end of the year, but how many plays did they give up? They were average, but not horrible or amazing.
Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
Correct. They played Fraziers system well. +10
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 24, 2010 1:50 PM CST up reply actions
Madieu Williams is horrible.
For the 8.7 million he made this year.
Hard one(loss) to swallow, thats what she said.
Then was Bernard Berrian equally as awful?
He made a lot, too.
Did Williams live up to his paycheck? I don’t know, I can’t make that assumption. He’ll still be on the team, and he starts. He doesn’t give up huge plays, but he doesn’t make plays. Historically, it’s much harder for safeties in the Tampa-2 to make big plays than other schemes.
Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
Neither was Awful
Neither was a stand-out, either. Average play for their positions, which under other circumstances is just fine… but in view of the size of their paychecks and cap concerns in 2011, it needs to be looked at.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Should have added more to that
I agree that the secondary needs some help. With Winfield out, they struggled for a while before finding their feet, and now with Griff hurt, it’s a miracle that they were able to step up as much as they did in the NFC Championship. Kudos well deserved.
The problem is, there isn’t a lot of depth behind that. Same for the LB corps, the Vikings had a lot of key injuries and they still played extremely well.
But if any of the second-tier guys go down, it’s mighty thin behind them. Even if they don’t, on extended play sets, they need to be spelled by someone who can carry their weight.
My statement was aimed towards the talk of dumping key players for the sake of bringing in younger, untried draft gambles. Taylor, McKinnie, Edwards, have all be mentioned as guys to use for trade bait, or just let them go and bring in draftees in the theory that they’ll be able to play as well as those Vikings vets. I’m not a big fan of Big Mac, but unless we have someone demonstrably better to take his place, AS WELL AS Hick’s spot, AND an upcomming replacement for aging Hutch, I think we need to keep McKinnie. Taylor is a key member of the offense, losing him could really hurt the team. Edwards is a gamble, but he’s a fairly inexpensive gamble that the Vikings should take, if possible. If he’s really stepped up to a new level, it’s going to make for a frightening season for Rodgers, Stafford, and Cutler, in 2010.
Let’s not gut the parts of the team that are doing great, to roll the dice in the draft.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
The thread is about how to get Asomugha or other Raiders
But Asomugha is the only one.
I threw out some possible trade scenarios.
I would hope to see some other scenarios or modifying the ones I put up as a starting point.
Nnamdi would be great on the Vikings.
I think our first this year and a conditional pick next year like a 3rd or 4th should be sufficient.
The real question is does Wilf want to cough up that much money when the revenue situation is what it is?
He would have to do another “cash call” to his other investors.
At some point he is going to use up all of the profit he has made on the Vikings.
Wilf has been extremely generous.
He’s given money out of his own pocket for signing bonuses for the likes of Jared Allen and others. Compared to Red McCombs, Wilf is the Monopoly Man. He has no reservations about spending!
Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
Yes
Maybe we can add a cornerback in the draft that is good enough, together with our current players, to get us over the hump.
It’s Zygi’s money, and even if Asomugha were available for two draft picks, like you describe, if Zygi doesn’t pull the trigger, I would not blame him. That’s a lot of money. Having Asomugha would be incredible for the team. That’s why I hope he pulls the trigger. Whatever happens, happens. The Vikings will be fine.
by medicineball on Feb 24, 2010 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
He would have to use up 250 Million dollars because thats his profit to date.
Considering that the Vikings didn’t lose any money last year ( due to revenue sharing). I would say they can do what they like. The teams that spend the money in the uncapped year will have an advantage in player quality when they go back to a capped year. The teams that cut players and salaries this year just to save money will have less talent on their team next year. It makes no sense for the Raiders to give up a very valuable player. It makes no sense for a team needing that player not to purchase a valuable commodity. Without a salary cap we will all have to just sit back and see exactly what each teams spending philosophy will be.
Its going to be an interesting year.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 24, 2010 11:27 AM CST up reply actions
If the Vikings get Nnamdi Asomugha...
they will have the best corner tantem in the NFL.
Winfield + Asomugha + Favre + Westbrook = Championship
eff you we winning anyway
A.I. IS BACKKKKKKK
3 of the names...
Don’t fall into his trap, Manimal
Don't worry
He is Manimal. He can just turn into a panther or kangaroo and jump out of there.
by medicineball on Feb 24, 2010 10:18 PM CST up reply actions
Free Agency...
Get alphabet soup, get Moss. Use picks to get them if needed.
Dump Berrian.
Draft best available with remainning picks.
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Feb 25, 2010 10:53 AM CST reply actions
I agree to an extent
Bernard is one of the Vikings highest paid players (iirc). A trade for Moss would be sweet!
Bernard is prone to his hamstring issues. I also see bad chemistry between Favre and Berrian. A return to MN off Moss could also really persuade Favre back almost guaranteed. We would have several stand-out receivers and many of them would be hard to cover. Our offense would definately be explosive. No more 8 in the box for AP….
Oh what would those defenses do??
Minnesota already has several stand out receivers...
Sidney Rice, Percy Harvin, and even Bernard Berrian. They are all capable of getting 1,000 yards. Of course, they all won’t, but they all have the potential.
Moss would be an luxury that’s not really needed. Nice? Maybe. But not for any picks. Only, ONLY if he gets cut. Even then, I wouldn’t care either way.
Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
I loved Moss when he was here. But that was then. This is Now.
But getting him now seems like another case of trying to obtain an older player that
is not performing well for his current team.
Players lose production if older and not named Farve. To name a few:
Issac Bruce, Tory Holt, Randy Moss, LT. If the Vikings are going to maintain their edge they do not need to obtain more players who are NOT producing the required amounts at their position.
If ,however, I read the quote from Randy Moss correctly he simply stated the obvious. He did not think the Pats would pay him a huge sum to play next year. That’s right. He will be older, slower, and less productive. No one in their right mind would pay him a large amount. Hopefully, not even the Vikings
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 25, 2010 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
Could be,
The other side of the coin is Jerry Rice. He had a great run from ’98 to 2003 at the end of his career, even after the torn ligament. While it might qualify me as a heretic, Moss has produced better than Rice in the regular season thus far in his career.
It would be a risk to bring in Moss. He is not a great route runner. But he is still a deep threat when healthy. Last year he had a shoulder separation and still had great production.
With Moss there are also locker room chemistry issues. Childress had a bad experience with TO. Will Moss block on running plays consistently? I can see the skeptical side.
by medicineball on Feb 25, 2010 1:43 PM CST up reply actions
Well all of that aside. I think you hit it perfectly. When Rice got older
he was let go. He went to a different team and was not productive.
Its age. It catches up to all. Someday, even Farve. Maybe 2020?
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 25, 2010 1:46 PM CST up reply actions
Well.....
The only reason I stated this idea, was because it seems we over-pay Bernard. He doesn’t really seem to be a stand-out. If we were to probably get his personal opinion on which QB was the starter, I would have no doubt that Bernard would be a T-Jack supporter. I think he doesn’t care much for Favre and just deals with him.
As a receiving core, I think everyone can like Favre due to how he really spreads the ball around. If Moss were to come, I think Favre would maybe favor him a little, which would make Moss nearly go at it 100% all the time.
Anyways, if we happened to lose Benard, I don’t think I would shed a tear or anything nealry like that in comparison if we were to lose Rice/Harvin/Shiancoe (These are the 3 names we heard getting the most receptions).
Bernard has made some good plays – but he was suspect with his hamstring issue. Without any contact I watch him running along the sideline and pulling it.
I don't mean to defend Bernard, but he was injured. Hopefully he won't get injured this year.
But it did seem to me that when he went deep it opened up the shorter routes for Rice and Harvin. Are you sure we aren’t getting good production from him. If healthy all year, i mean.
But I do believe you are correct that we gave him a contract higher than it was worth. That is the risk in bringing in free agents. Not all are like Jared Allen. Some are like Bernard and Madieu. The draft is the key. The draft is our future.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 25, 2010 3:22 PM CST up reply actions
He was healthy in '09
and had a pretty good season.
Am I wrong that he suffered a hamstring injury through most of the year.
It just seems to me that he was playing but nursing that Hammy.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 25, 2010 3:38 PM CST up reply actions
You are correct, sir
For a number of games, both of Berrian’s hamstrings were strained, and he kept on playing. Maybe we should have sent Jaymar Johnson out there, in light of Berrian’s production, but Berrian did play. He is tough.
by medicineball on Feb 25, 2010 3:55 PM CST up reply actions
Berrian
He may be able to tough it out, but it does hamper his performance and he seems to be very injury-prone.
Personally, he’s one I’d try to trade, while he still has some value in him and the Vikings can pick up the slack with Johnson.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
I agree with you 100%
Problem is not many people will want to pick up his contract when he hasn’t shown all that much in the last couple of years..
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
db's
can’t believe the way you guys don’t give ced any credit for last season. he got better every game and was playing at a high level at the end of the season. coverage skills were much better and he’s always around the ball. he’s a winner, period.
Are you talking about Cedric Griffin?
I don’t hear many people saying he’s done anything but get better. He’s gone from average to great over the past year and a half.
Everyone is basing the secondary improving based on him recovering from his injury and coming back at full strength.
Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
+23
Griffin will return and will start as soon as he can. No doubt.
by medicineball on Feb 25, 2010 10:54 PM CST up reply actions
Absolutely!
Griff caught a lot of flak in 2008 but he stepped up nicely last year before the injury.
What I worry about, Manimal, is the ‘what if’.
What if Griff doesn’t come back 100%, or becomes injury-prone?
What if EJ doesn’t make it back? Two major, season-ending injuries in the past two years, does that qualify as ‘injury-prone’?
What if Win doesn’t come back 100%? He was supposed to have fully recovered from turf-toe in 6 weeks, instead it turned out to be 10 weeks, and even then he was limping.
I’m praying for all those guys, but ‘what if’ things don’t work out? I think it’s the FO’s job to pick up some insurance on all those injuries, in the form of quality backup/replacements, just in case. Worst case scenario, the new guys will be in the breach fairly soon. Best case, the Vikings build some better depth behind those positions. All good.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Winfield
It wasn’t turf toe. It was a fractured foot. It sounded like it could have been a stress fracture. While he will heal up in the off-season, the general trend of cornerbacks in their early 30s who have foot problems is that their careers are shortened. Thus, some of us want Winfield to move to strong safety. While he is short, he could play very well there like Bob Sanders. Furthermore, as a safety he would make fewer cuts and put less “stress” on his feet, possibly extending his career like Rodney Harrison.
by medicineball on Feb 27, 2010 11:37 AM CST up reply actions
Turf-Toe
That was his original injury, the one that took him out for what was expected to be 6 weeks.
If we got in someone very strong to take his place as a corner, it would make more sense to me to move him out to S.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Researched
I just went back through the Vikings blog, searching on Winfield’s injury, and saw a progression. First they said ‘turf toe’, which is what I remembered. Then it became a sprained foot. Then it became a fractured foot bone. I couldn’t find out if he furthered injured himself, or the early diagnoses were just plain wrong.
I had also forgotten that EJ’s injury 2008 injury was his foot, then he injured his knee in the early part of 2009, then the femur later.
Reading through the IR summaries are a bit depressing….
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
not sure
I don’t think it was turf toe, even if they reported that. I think it was just one injury that has taken a long time to heal. I think it’s serious enough where he should be moved to safety.
by medicineball on Feb 27, 2010 8:46 PM CST up reply actions
Trade McKinnie and Williams for Asomugha
Their salaries will match his and we get a great player, then we draft a LT and move Johnson to FS and start Sanford at SS. We get rid of Mckinnie’s immaturity and Williams ineffectiveness and we solidify our defense. We still 7 more draft picks to address needs and depth.
I don't buy it at all.
I have to give credit to my starting pro bowl tackle and my starting safety from a NFC championship quality team as being a part of that success. Teams will be spending big money and high draft picks to get a chance on maybe finding a tackle this good. Williams takes a lot of flack but he did go out and performed each week. Taking away two starters for one CB does not make sense to me.
Lets just fill our needs with the draft. Create competition in training camp. This will give us more than we have now. Not less than we have now.
I really have a hard time believing that this coaching staff would get rid of a 30 year old Tackle. One of the 10 best in the NFL. I also do not believe that they misjudged Williams ability to play good defense in our system. He is 27 and in his absolute Prime.
Sorry, I respect your opinion but do not agree with this type of trade at all.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 27, 2010 9:55 AM CST up reply actions
You can’t gut the team and make it better.
by medicineball on Feb 27, 2010 11:39 AM CST up reply actions
Just can't expect to improve on a pro-bowl caliber player with a draft gamble
I mean, it’d be nice if it worked out, but you can’t count on it. If you were making the move, and you were wrong… what then? Then we watch whoever’s at QB get pounded into the turf, and AP stuffed at the line whenever he tries to run on the left.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
+10
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 27, 2010 9:15 PM CST up reply actions
I'm sick of people trading starters for draft picks...
Or counting on draft picks to immediatley contribute. Minnesota is a championship calibur team! Why would you trade starters? It makes no sense.
Minnesota should not trade anyone unless it’s an absolutely insane deal. Keep everone around, get depth through the draft. It someone stands out, great! If not, it takes time for rookies to develop. Improve from WITHIN. Minnesota has drafted people in the previous drafts for this purpose. Or gotten undrafted free agents. Stuff like that.
Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
We're talking trade scenarios
If any of you have read my posts I also don’t think it’s wise to trade Mckinnie with a win now team, Williams maybe for a sixth year veteran he has no excuses especially in a defense he is familular with prior to coming to the Vikings.
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