Vikings mock draft results
by medicineball on Feb 23, 2010 9:02 PM CST
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PrintAnother live mock draft was conducted recently over at Mocking the Draft. The draft went for the first two rounds. Here are the results.
The entire results can be seen over at MTD. The next seven round live mock draft will be conducted sometime in the future.
In this two-round mock draft, the Vikings selected, in the
1st round - Sean Weatherspoon, OLB/ILB, Missouri
An inspirational leader on the field, Sean Weatherspoon plays with relentless passion and energy. At 6'1, 241 lbs, running a 4.59 40-yard dash, Sean Weatherspoon has the physical tools to be a great linebacker. While he is commonly projected to play weakside linebacker, he would also excel at middle linebacker, even in the demanding Tampa 2 defense that the Vikings happen to play.
Sean Weatherspoon, #12, Missouri
Here's an interesting "day in the life" video.
One thing that Weatherspoon needs to work on is recognizing misdrection plays faster.
Sean Weatherspoon
2nd round - Myron Rolle, SS/FS, Florida State
Rolle has the stature of a prototypical safety at 6'2, 217 lbs.
Myron Rolle's 40 time is 4.59 seconds. At the Scouting Combine, he will probably run faster. He is most famous for winning a Rhodes Scholarship. At the Senior Bowl, he surprised scouts by showing up in the best shape of his life. He has said he loves football, and wants to play in the NFL while also pursuing his dream of becoming a neurosurgeon. His high level of athleticism and intelligence will serve him well as a safety. We believe he is athletic enough to play either strong safety or free safety. He could also be used as a cornerback. He made the third-team All-America in 2008.
Other athletes to be Rhodes Scholars are Bill Bradley (Basketball Hall of Fame, US Senator), Garrett Johnson (Olympian), and Tom McMillen (NBA player, US Congressman).
This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.
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Don't need a 1st round linebacker
Rolle is fine by me seeing as he is so versatile. Never hurts to have such a great character guy either. I want to see a QB taken in the 1st or 2nd round. Dan Lefevour?
No way, LeFevour is, at most, a 3rd rounder.
As for Rolle, he is actually my favorite player in this draft, great guy, great potencial, would be FOR SURE a TOP10 had he stayed for his senior season.
And altough we don’t need a 1st rounder linebacker, we need a linebacker, and going for the Best Player Available is ALWAYS the best option.
Leber isn’t getting any younger, and Weatherspoon could provide depht at both, WLB and MLB.
So, if the Vikings drafted these two guys with their first two picks, it would be an A+ draft for me.
SKÖL VIKINGS!
SHOW YOUR HORNS!
LeFevour
Regardless of everything he has done, and the positive upside to him, he has backed out of throwing at the Senior Bowl despite being fully healthy. Dozens of quarterbacks will be at the Senior Bowl throwing. Yet, LeFevour is too scared to let scouts see him throw side-by-side next to the other quarterback prospects. I guess I feel the same way about Tim Tebow, who is also fully healthy. Just go out there and perform.
I think the reason for this is that LeFevour and Tebow both throw poorly and they don’t want their draft stock to drop more than it has.
Unless they have an amazing pro day performance—and neither will—they should be considered likely busts.
by medicineball on Feb 24, 2010 9:40 AM CST up reply actions
correction
Dozens of quarterbacks will be at the Scouting Combine throwing
by medicineball on Feb 24, 2010 9:41 AM CST up reply actions
Bradford? Clausen?
Not throwing at the combine shouldn’t be a strike against a player. Who is to say the combine is the best environment for a quarterback to display a skill set? More and more athletes are choosing to throw at their pro days because of the comfortability it allows you. You have plenty of time to warm up and throw in conditions you are accostomed to. Waiting around for fifteen other guys to throw an out route is for the birds in my opinion. If you have a reason not to participate in one or more aspect of the combine then don’t. It could hurt your chances but may prove helpful.
injured
Both Bradford and Clausen have legitimate excuses. They are both recovering from the injuries and the surgeries they had.
by medicineball on Feb 24, 2010 10:13 AM CST up reply actions
Lots of top prospects don't do anything at the combine.
It’s pretty standard that top prospects don’t participate fully in the combine, waiting until their pro day to do the important things. That’s so they can do it where they are comfortable.
The fact that Suh is going to do everything is a pretty huge exception to the rule. Those top guys have little to prove, and most could only hurt their stock. If Suh didn’t participate, would you stop thinking of him as the number one or two pick?
Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
AD
Adrian Peterson did everything at the combine. I think not participating in the Combine without a valid excuse is a sign of weakness.
by medicineball on Feb 24, 2010 11:40 AM CST up reply actions
this year
This year, all of the following quarterbacks will be there throwing.
Brown, Jarrett
Brown, Levi
Canfield, Sean
Clark, Daryll
Edwards, Armanti
Hall, Max
Hiller, Tim
Kafka, Mike
Lewis, Thaddeus
McCoy, Colt
Pike, Tony
Robinson, Zac
Skelton, John
Skinner, Clayton
Snead, Jevan
Some quarterbacks like Jonathan Crompton and Tyler Sheehan were snubbed and did not even receive a Combine invitation. Yet, Tim Tebow and Dan LeFevour are both perfectly healthy. All they have to do is stand in a dome and throw some footballs. Yet they are too cowardly to do that. They want scouts to believe they will be cool under pressure with the game on the line, deep in the playoffs, yet are not able to handle the pressure of the scouting combine.
I don’t believe it. LeFevour and Tebow are acting cowardly. If I were running the Vikings, I would talk to them personally at the beginning of the combine (they will be there doing everything but throwing) and tell them that our team would never consider drafting them if they don’t throw at the combine. These two guys are screwing up whatever chance they have.
I mean this is ridiculous. We Internet commenters could all get together at a park and throw a football around and that is about as difficult as throwing at the combine will be.
by medicineball on Feb 24, 2010 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
I told you...
Highly touted QBs don’t throw unless they have something to prove. Did Sanchez or Stafford throw last year? I honestly can’t remember, but I think Sanchez did, Stafford did not.
It’s a little more technical than just throwing it around. They are being judged on stance, release, quickness, accuracy, decision making, everything. The highly touted ones don’t want to mess up and drop their stock playing on a neutral field. They will wait until their pro day to do it.
Tebow, I know, is changing his mechanics up. He’s waiting until his pro day or whatever. I’m not sure on others.
And I didn’t say ALL QBs, I meant the highly regarded, first round calibur ones.
Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
OK
Even if I give you that, that doesn’t give LeFevour or Tebow a pass. Neither are first round quarterbacks.
I already would give Bradford and Clausen a pass because of their health situation.
by medicineball on Feb 24, 2010 4:07 PM CST up reply actions
Bradford and Clausen
Health concerns is their reason, yes. But the bottom line is that the top prospects going into the Combine have everything to lose and little to gain by performing there. A personal bad day, or being sick, or coming off an injury, or the stars mis-aligned, could all be the cause of a less-than-optimal performance and their stock takes a hit because of it. As long as they have a excuse reason to not play, it’s the smart choice to make.
I’m no expert on the amateurs, but from everything I’ve read, I have to agree with you on LeFevour and Tebow. Either would make a decent 3rd or 4th round gamble.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Spielman was asked about players turn down opportunities to participate in certain aspects of the Combine, specifically QBs who elect not to throw in front of NFL coaches and scouts. Here was his response: "I just think, again, regardless of position, if you’re not here competing then I’ve always had an issue with that, especially if you’re healthy. And I know there have been some quarterbacks that have not thrown here and one of the biggest reasons you here is because they don’t have the timing down with the receivers. And when you’re evaluating QBs at the Combine, you’re looking more at his mechanics and his release…looking at the arm strength. You know that he may have never thrown to that guy.
"You may want to ask some of the agents why they don’t have their quarterbacks throw, but I imagine that (comfort with receivers) may be one of the reasons. They want to go to their campus (on their Pro Day) and throw on their own turf, throw to the people they’ve been throwing to the last four years. And that’s great but the people you’ve been throwing to the last four years probably aren’t going to be the people you’re throwing to when you come into minicamp. So are you not going to throw in minicamp until you get used to those guys?"
SKÖL VIKINGS!
SHOW YOUR HORNS!
yeah but by then
You’ve already made a million.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Good point
In the Combine, it’s not full squad drill and the WRs are only going to have 1-man cover. There’s no complex plays to learn, there’s no rush coming at the QB. All he has to do is take the ball, drop back, see the target and nail it. What is there to learn, timing-wise?
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
This discussion hinges on the combine being important.
For little known guys or guys with big question marks who need to prove their value to the 32 teams it makes sense. The wonderlic is a joke and the players are getting so coached up that the interviews are starting to become irrelevant. A cone drill never stopped a fourth and goal and no one has ever done 20 bench reps on the field; what good does being quick do if you can’t recognize and process what going on around you. Most teams boards change very little after the weekend. The Combine will be widely televised in a couple of years because football fans have an insatiable appetite for info…even if it’s not very good (read: ESPN).
Tough. That is life.
In the case of the Combine, it puts all of the participants on an even playing field. Everyone runs the 40-yard dash with the same timing system on the same track. Quarterbacks all throw NFL-approved footballs with no helium injected. Every player is measured in height and weight. There is no way to fool anybody or monkey with any info. All of this is verified with lots of people running around and watching who have conflicting interests such as scouts from division rivals.
Is Joe Haden really 5’11, or is he shorter?
How fast can Ryan Mathews and Toby Gerhart run?
Can Taylor Mays run a shuttle drill or three-cone drill with the upper tier of other Combine participants, or is he far down on the list, and therefore more likely to be a linebacker, and not a safety?
How well do Dan LeFevour and Tim Tebow throw? Oh, wait, nevermind. They don’t even have enough confidence to put their healthy arms up against the likes of Sean Canfield and Clayton Skinner.
If Tebow and LeFevour don’t throw at the Combine, they shouldn’t even be drafted. You can’t trust them in a game situation if they lack confidence to just throw a few balls for scouts along with all of the other quarterbacks.
by medicineball on Feb 25, 2010 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
Tough? It's life?
Is Joe Haden really 5’11, or is he shorter?
How fast can Ryan Mathews and Toby Gerhart run?
And knowing how fast they can run the 40 will come in great on a 3rd and er, it doesn’t matter. How fast did E. Smith run the 40? I know he was caught from behind a lot, but he was successful and statistically the greatest running back ever.
Can Taylor Mays run a shuttle drill or three-cone drill with the upper tier of other Combine participants, or is he far down on the list, and therefore more likely to be a linebacker, and not a safety? Again, when does the shuttle, three cone drill translate into playing football?
How well do Dan LeFevour and Tim Tebow throw? Oh, wait, nevermind. They don’t even have enough confidence to put their healthy arms up against the likes of Sean Canfield and Clayton Skinner. LeFevour has more than 1600 pass attempts on film. He had enough confidence to complete roughly 68% of them against, get this, defense! But you believe what he does or doesn’t do at the combine will define him.
Take a look at the top combine performers of recent years. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/129381-2009-nfl-combine-studs-duds
Combine Excellence =/= NFL success no matter how it is designed.
It would be interesting if all teams said that.
We won’t draft you unless you throw at the combine? But the owners and coaches don’t really care. They are more interested in the interviews and the medical appraisals at the combine for these QBs. Whenever teams do start saying that they “won’t” draft then the players will take notice.
I certainly cannot blame a player that uses the present system to his advantage.
But I can see a team using that as a “character flaw” issue.
As always you post an interesting take on the issues.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 25, 2010 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
Wow MB! I had to let that digest for a minute
The NFL is a business. Tebow and LeFevour are not ammatuers any more. They are taking advice from their agents, who are only looking to maximize their client$ potential. LoveHate and Manimal are 100% correct in saying that QB’s are better off throwing at their pro day because they can throw to receivers they are comfortable with (just like when they join an NFL team where they will be throwing to their teammates) and they can warm up for as long as they need. Teams that are interested in them will go to their Pro Day and rate them way they would have if they saw them throw at the combine.
I highly doubt that they are being “cowards” because they are “scared” to be sized up side by side with the other QB prospects. I think the point has been made, more and more QB’s are opting for their pro days. I think the combine is good for those “unknowns” or “little-knowns” out there, but guys like Tebow and LeFevour have 3 and 4 years of film, respectively. That speaks for them (QB’s) much more than any 40 or passing drill ever would. All those passing drills might show is arm strength. And while that is part of the puzzle, guys like Montana and Drew Brees have made a pretty good name for themselves despite their perceived lack of arm strength.
The things scouts are most interested in (interview ,weigh ins, and measurement: height and hand) LeFevour and Tebow are going to participate in. If that were not the case, then their agents would advise them otherwise.
I think a large part of your opinion is influenced by the fact that both LeFevour and Tebow have been linked as possible QOTF for the Vikes. It’s no surprise that this doesn’t sit well with you because your trust in TJack is well documented. If Tebow or LeFevour provide an upgrade, I don’t understand why you would object to that???
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
QBOTF
To me not participating at the Combine when you can is a genuine red flag. It’s not like they are paying for their own airfare, or they are busy those days. They just show up, lift some weights, run, throw some footballs around, talk to some interviewers and go home. It’s probably very stressful, but so is NFL gameday. There is no reason not to do it. They are acting like a coward would, and I don’t want that guy to be leader of my football team. I don’t find it particularly surprising that this red flag is thrown on two quarterbacks I have been skeptical of for a very long time.
I have a lot of respect for Dan LeFevour. In college, though, his game was based on being a running threat and then throwing a wobbly ball to a receiver who was wide open because of LeFevour’s ground threat, and not very far down the field usually.
Tim Tebow should be the #1 pick in the draft, but his throwing is not good enough, and that is where all the skepticism of him begins and ends. Now we find out that Tebow will not participate in one single drill at the scouting combine, not even a 40-yard dash. What is he hiding?
I don’t want the Vikings to waste a draft pick on these guys because they will probably wash out. Maybe Tebow could become good in the NFL eventually. Maybe LeFevour could eventually throw a spiral hard down the field in windy conditions into a tight window. I just doubt it.
With Jackson, we have a quarterback who has better physical tools. The accuracy, the confidence, and the leadership will all come in time, and make the investment in him worthwhile.
Gannon, who has been coaching Jackson, recently said that Jackson’s current challenge is apparently not even reading defenses. It’s acting quickly in the pocket. He needs to twitch more quickly. That is not a physical problem for Jackson. It’s just going to be a matter of learning to pull the trigger at the right moment, body and mind in sync, and sooner rather than later. At some point soon, the game will slow down for Jackson. When that happens, Jackson will be a great quarterback. Speaking of his intellectual capacity, everyone who knows has stated clearly that Jackson has a full command of the playbook and that the entire offense is open to Jackson, including authority to audible.
I am strongly in favor of drafting a developmental quarterback prospect in the later rounds (5th 6th or 7th) this year, regardless of whether Favre comes back. There will be a lot of value there, relatively speaking, and a team should never quit building. In that later round, we could gamble on a LeFevour or Tebow (or Pike) if folks really insist. We would be smarter to draft a Matt Nichols, Eastern Washington, Max Hall, BYU, or Bill Stull, Pitt. My #1 choice based on relative value remains Tyler Sheehan, Bowling Green. He has been completely overlooked and will probably be there in the 6th round. I really, deeply believe that Sheehan has the potential to be successful in the NFL. His film looks like a prototypical NFL quarterback playing the game well, and he is in college.
The only 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round quarterback we should consider is Colt McCoy, and that is very, very questionable. Can he physically take the punishment that the NFL will dish out? Maybe not and that is reason enough to pass.
I respect your view. Maybe what I should do is just create a FanPost about how I evaluate quarterbacks and what the Vikings should do, and then just keep referring to that. When we have these discussions I can link to that when called for. Then you could go there in comments and point out what you see as the flaws so whenever people see that, your criticism is included.
I know I am contrarian, but the Chargers released Drew Brees, the entire league passed on Tom Brady multiple times, and the Packers wanted to kick Brett Favre out the door. It is not a stretch to suggest the pros can get it wrong. It may be a big stretch to suggest I can get it right, but I am saying that.
by medicineball on Feb 25, 2010 3:31 PM CST up reply actions
Film
Here is one clip of highlights of Tyler Sheehan and Freddie Barnes. Barnes and Sheehan spent their college careers playing together. Sheehan showed that he can develop exceptionally good chemistry with a wide receiver. Barnes had over 150 catches on the year and set multiple records. Sheehan was among the nation’s top passers.
What I see is a quarterback who is very accurate. He hits his receiver in stride, in traffic, down the field, short passes, medium passes, etc. He throws into tight windows and puts the ball on the money on the receiver. He does need to throw more spirals, but he looks like NFL-quality to me.
Outside of Sheehan and Barnes, there were not many good players on Bowling Green. Yet Sheehan and Barnes got BG to a bowl game. The two of them scored a touchdown in the final minute to take the lead in the bowl game. But the BG defense gave up a touchdown to Idaho in the final 46 seconds or whatever. Idaho did have the blocking of Mike Iupati to help with that, but Sheehan and Barnes must be given a lot of credit.
In Tom Brady’s final college game, he threw for over 350 yards, 4 TD, etc, and so did Tyler Sheehan.
If we could somehow draft both Sheehan and Barnes, that could be a bonanza. Maybe in the 5th and 6th rounds.
by medicineball on Feb 25, 2010 4:04 PM CST up reply actions
by this token...
Outside of Sheehan and Barnes, there were not many good players on Bowling Green. Yet Sheehan and Barnes got BG to a bowl game.
You should love LeFevour. How many household names are on that Central Michigan roster? And despite the lackthereof, Central Michigan was still playing in bowl games and winning them. That come-from-behind effort in OT was awesome this year. His teammates on O and D rallied around him and pulled it off.
And when LeFevour was playing with big names at the Senior Bowl, he still shined bright.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
I often disagree with you regarding QB's, but usually respect your opinion
I just don’t think its fair to call Tebow or LeFevour cowards. If anything, those guys have proven to be extremely tough and durable throughout their careers. These guys are leaders. They’re not the type to say “charge!” And then watch people get the job done for them. They say “follow me.” Those qualilites stand out way more to me, than not throwing at the combine. You’ll get to watch them go through all the same drills at their prodays that they would have done at the combine on youtube. Besides, these kids are only doing what every other draft prospect is doing right now which is listen to their agent. Their agents obviously feel that there is nothing for them to gain by throwing at the combine so theyre not. Bradford and Clausen aren’t throwing until their pro days either. And since their prodays are within the next few weeks, I’m willing to bet it’s not because of their injuries either.
I don’t want the Vikings to waste a draft pick on these guys because they will probably wash out.
All because they aren’t throwing at the combine?
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
That being said...
I don’t want the Vikes to draft Tebow either, but it has nothing to do with his decision not to throw at the combine. If the NFL was merely a beauty contest, then yes I’d be pissed that these guys aren’t throwing.
But its more about pocket awareness, accuracy, leadership, poise, attitude, confidence, toughness, intelligence, quick decisions; most of which cannot be measured a the combine.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Everyone states that TJ knows the play book?
Except Childress. When TJ was in playing football the play book looked like it had been nuetered. I thouhgt it might be Chilly but he let Gus do a lot more than TJ ever did. Also, teaching someone to think quickly isn’t hard it’s impossible. If you don’t think quick all you can do it map certain ideas into their head that help them spark a decision later on.
I don’t want to hijack another thread about this, so I’ll just shut up.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
To me not participating at the Combine when you can is a genuine red flag.
What qualifications do you bring that you’re able to speak with such certainty and condemnation of players who opt not to participate?
However you critique and evaluate quarterbacks, be honest and admit that you have an infinitesimal amount of information to go on (youtube doesn’t count). Whereas the guys who get paid to do it will be able to get a feel for any player the consider with or without a combine performance.
fan
I’m just a fan. I really hope I’m not better at this than the people who are paid for it on the Vikings.
by medicineball on Feb 26, 2010 8:48 AM CST up reply actions
Hey MB we're all just fans. And at the end of the day we all want the same thing:
And I believe that we all want whats best for our team. Whether or not we agree on what that is, well that’s another story. If we all agreed all the time, this site would be boring after awhile. So there are no hard feelings at all. I love the discussions!
One more note. I was watching the opening coverage of the scouting combine yesterday, and the opening 10 mins were dedicated to the value of the combine from a coaches standpoint. Mariucci and Jim Mora Jr. both agreed that from a coaches perspective, the biggest benefit to the combine is that it:
1. Gives the head coach an opportunity to meet the players, usually for the first time
2. Allows them to have medical background checks done on all the players for free
3. Allows them to get actual measurements (height, weight, arm and hand length) for free
4. Allows them to get psychological tests done on the players for free.
Both Mariucci and Mora stated that the players they covet have been scouted for the last 6 months to a year by their scouts. The combine allows the coaches a chance to see them up close and personal. Allows them to see how they interact with other players and how they carry themselves.
Mariucci did state that he would like to see Tebow and LeFevour throw, but that he understood that they are just doing what their agents have told them to do. He elaborated on that point and said that while participation at the combine for every other position has gone up over the years, more and more QB’s are being told by their agents to wait to throw at their pro days. He said agents want their clients to be comfortable, throwing to their own receivers, and minimize balls on the ground.
Tebow even said that he believes there is no upside to throwing 12-14 balls at the combine when he can showcase himself for a full 60-90 minutes at his pro day for the coaches who are actually interested in him.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
footnote
Tebow did do everything at the combine, except for the throwing drills. He ran a 4.70. In an interview with NFL Network the impression was given that his agent has decided he would not throw at the combine. At PFT, a sly hint was passed that the agent-player contract gives the agent the right to make that decision.
Furthermore, Tebow said that after the scripted portion of his pro day workout, he will throw whatever routes scouts ask him to.
If that’s all true with Tebow, and we fans have no way of knowing, then maybe we can’t hold this against him. The NFL has to get a handle on this.
Quarterbacks should throw at the combine if they are healthy.
I keep going back and forth on Tebow. Draft him? No? I can’t decide but I would default to shying away from him. It’s nearly impossible to change a throwing motion.
by medicineball on Feb 28, 2010 7:16 PM CST up reply actions
I think it just takes time and commitment
Tebow seems like a guy who’s willing to put in the extra off-season time to practice and be taught how to improve his mechanics and release.
What worries me more is that he seems to have a run-first attitude. If at first he doesn’t see someone open, his inclination is to rabbit, and because of that he’s not noticing that receivers are about to be available. Bad situational awareness, and too much reliance on himself rather than the team.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Yeah Farves is still all messed up
and look at him totally stunted his growth.. (well it actually might have…)
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
How can the NFL demand full participation when the combine is by invitation only (rather than being manditory)? If the combine was punitive, how many athletes do you think would just decline the invitation? Teams aren’t going to bypass good football players because they don’t show up in late February for a workout that may or may not impact their draft status.
In every line of work you do your best to highlight your strengths and minimize your weaknesses, the NFL too.
My $.02:
Weatherspoon would be ok, but beyond the particular player, I’d hesitate to spend a first on a linebacker.
Two years in a row everyone freaked out when EJ Henderson went down, and two years in a row the Vikings defense performed at about the same level post-EJ even though they replaced him with journeymen in 2008 and a 5th round rookie in 2009. Why? Because Minny’s D just doesn’t get elaborate with its linebackers. They’re not a gap control front where the line eats up blockers so the backers can make all the plays Ray Lewis style. And they rarely blitz their linebackers (and if they do it’s usually out of desperation). In the running game, the LBs are asked to defend one lane, and in the passing game they play straight zone.
I also feel 4-3 LBs are relatively easy to find. Daryl Washington was available in round 2 in this mock, for instance. The Colts basically run the same system as the Vikings and they haven’t drafted a linebacker in the first 3 rounds in years, yet they still find effective guys.
All that said, we are talking about the 30th overall pick. That’s not a glitzy pick and hardly a big money situation (relatively speaking), so ANY position would be fair game short of kicker/punter. I could see Weatherspoon being in the mix. He’d have to be a bit more disciplined in coverage. But I sometimes wonder how much (if any) of his rap for biting on everything has to do with the fact Missouri’s defense was poop on ice. Maybe he just felt he needed to be everywhere. Who knows?
As for Rolle, I haven’t seen him projected that high. I don’t think it’s accurate to say he was a top 10 pick pre-Oxford, as he was considered a bit of an underachiever (on the field, obviously, not the classroom) at Florida St. But I haven’t seen him play much.
I agree with this
Weatherspoon while not an immediate need illustrates the fact that the Vikings can select any position in the first round if they chose to.
There were guys like Jared Odrick & Lamaar Houston available that I may have strongly considered over Weatherspoon.
I could see the Vikings going for Nate Allen in round 1 and Daryl Washington in round 2.
Spoon is good too though so I can live with that. But Rolle is too early IMO despite all of his intangibles. I think I would go for Rolle in the 3rd possibly. I would take Major Wright before Rolle.
But the way this draft is going you really have to look hard at John Jerry or Kyle Calloway or Brandon Ghee or Cam Thomas in the 2nd round.
I would go for Spoon & Ghee.
Thanks
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by medicineball on Feb 24, 2010 9:19 AM CST up reply actions
That would be a great draft. I’m sure Weatherspoon will turn out to be a good LB but I’m really sure how much you need him. He could be a great replacement for Leber though in a year or two.
I really, really like Rolle. The guy was a projected top 15 pick last year but then accepted the Rhodes Scholarship. His stock has dropped because of that but is a good, smart player. I would love to see the Packers pick him up. Watching Atari Bigby routinely blow coverages, and struggle with our new zone concepts was super frustrating.
solid but
washington from TCU showed amazinng blitz and tackling abilities and to trade out of the first to gain picks or for him to fll in the second would be sweet with 6-4 edds from iowa depending on his 40 could match up with taa TE’s a glaring weakness of ours primarily in the central and against playoff caliber teams. maylock likes thomas of texas . he’s no secret and will be gone by #30.
Some Rolle second thoughts
I’m not sure about these second thoughts, but I thought I would put them out here.
It’s hard to find video footage of Rolle playing football at Florida State on Youtube. Here are two plays, however, in which Myron Rolle, #3, actually looked pretty bad against the run in the same game.
Another touchdown, Georgia Tech
Both are touchdowns scored by Jonathan Dwyer. Florida State ended up losing the game by three points.
I do think Rolle is worth a second round pick. He might need a lot of work, though.
The other question is dedication to football. Will be be dedicated to football 24-7-365? Reluctantly, I am starting to doubt this. How much of his life will he give to football? How much offseason work will he do? Will he retire after 3 or 4 years to become a doctor? If he is not planning on being a 10-year player, giving the best years of his life to football, then let’s face it, he is probably a fifth rounder at best. He is an admirable human being. He wants to do both football and medicine, but in the NFL these days you have to be very dedicated. Could he go to the U of M medical school part-time in the offseason? Rolle is very talented, but he must make a clear-cut decision between football and medicine. He has refused to make that choice. I don’t blame him, but maybe that becomes a problem for a team looking at drafting him.
Positive
Before I get too negative, let me say something positive about Rolle. I think if he applies himself, he could have a truly great NFL career. He has rare size and athleticisim. With his talent, he could become a perennial Pro Bowler. I guess right now I am happy with the Rolle selection in the 2nd round, but I am starting to doubt it.
by medicineball on Feb 24, 2010 9:50 AM CST up reply actions
Well, he was dedicated to football enough that he stayed in Senior bowl shape while studying at Oxford for One year. I think that is pretty dedicated.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 24, 2010 3:36 PM CST up reply actions
You might say more dedicated than a certain 370 lb Nose ATackle that can't pass up a Big Mac
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 24, 2010 3:37 PM CST up reply actions
LOL
Nice points, LLV. While it is a risk to draft anyone, it would also be a risk to not draft Myron Rolle. He’s that good.
by medicineball on Feb 24, 2010 4:08 PM CST up reply actions
And all of those statements describe the risk and reward of the draft perfectly
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 25, 2010 6:17 AM CST up reply actions
Actually he reminds me of Robert Smith a bit
Hate to say it but I felt he had some seriously good years left in him when he left for medicine, Law whatever it was…
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
yes, but werent you glad we drafted him.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 25, 2010 2:01 PM CST up reply actions
BPA vs Need
Will Weatherspoon be the BPA at #30?
Because short of that, the Vikings really need a solid OG in this draft much more than an LB.
Rolle sounds like an interesting choice too.
But I think a tall, man-coverage capable CB would serve the team better, and give Winfield more options.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Personally, right now (subject to change a few times before April) I’d love Florida OL Maurkice Pouncey in the first and then tap into the great CB depth and land a Kareem Jackson or Donovan Warren or Perrish Cox in Round Two.
Pouncey might be one guy left at #30 that has those “rare” qualities (to use scoutspeak) teams like in first round picks; he’ll just be left due to his position. He’s a true junior, too, and already widely considered a borderline first rounder (where the Vikings are scheduled to pick). I think he could come in next year and immediately upgrade either RG or C. That’s not that sexy and the drunken draft party crowd might be disappointed, but they need some serious help up front, and Pouncey might be a great combo of value + need.
But we’ll see. There’s always a player or two that “slides.” And there’s deals, of course. I have a hunch the Vikings will move up or down from #30, actually.
Pouncey is interesting because he ca play more than one position.
It will take someone more adept than I to figure out whether Pouncey or Johnson are the best fit for us. Most teams looking at Pouncey want his ability to play Center. I’m not sure where our coaching staff is on that issue. Personally, I really liked Sullivan’s play. If we go with a pure guard I would think we could find one in the second or third round. That is normally where good guards get drafted. Once in a while a guy like Iupati comes along and gets taken in the first.
Last year we had the opportunity to draft the 2nd best center in the draft. We chose to pass on that position. I think they knew what they had in Sullivan sitting on the bench.
But I think your right.
There’s always a player or two that "slides."
I’m already salivating over who that might be.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 25, 2010 11:12 AM CST up reply actions
Game-changer
I have a hunch the Vikings will move up or down from #30, actually.
That’s what makes the draft so exciting, and if that happens… all bets are off :)
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Mike Johnson and zone-blocking
Pouncey and Iupati have a downside risk for the Vikings. Neither have played in a zone-blocking scheme. Phil Loadholt and Jon Cooper zone-blocked in college with the Oklahoma Sooners.
Mike Johnson, G, Alabama made the first team All-America. Walter Football described him as “the best zone-blocking guard in the draft.” Saban’s Tide uses zone-blocking. Johnson opened gaping holes in the Texas defense in the BCS Championship game. He was great all year, and did not allow a sack all year, if I recall correctly. He has been a 4.0 student, so he is capable of being mentally quick, as a zone-blocking guard must be. He has good feet.
I don’t know if Johnson is “big-boned” enough to play guard in the NFL. At 6’6, he is tall for a guard, but in a zone-blocking scheme that shouldn’t matter very much. Johnson might be a great guard for the Vikings with enough ability to be the heir-apparent to Steve Hutchinson. Most do not project him as a first rounder, but maybe we should draft him with the 30th pick.
So far I think Weatherspoon is a better player than Johnson, but I don’t know enough to really make a good judgment. Both a guard and a linebacker are needs in this draft.
by medicineball on Feb 25, 2010 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
Nice description. Thanks
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 25, 2010 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
the 30th pick
Without factoring in trade possibilities, our only opportunity to draft Johnson is likely to be in the 1st round. While people will call it a reach, I think he will be gone before the 2nd round pick.
In fact, I would expect the Lions to take him 34th overall (2nd round) if he is available. The Lions also have a zone-blocking scheme, and one of their biggest needs is for a left guard.
by medicineball on Feb 25, 2010 1:32 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think getting a player within 5 spots of your draft pick is a reach.
Its just not a Value like getting someone who drops ten spots. Nothing wrong with getting your needs met at an appropriate spot. That to me is why each teams draft boards are so different. Some might see Johnson as the 28th pick, some might see him as the 40th.
If we see a guard as good as Johnson that is rated 91st maybe we wait and pick him. But then you have to pick that player with the 62nd pick Its just that BPA v Need thing. When you pick at the end of the line you can’t afford to make a mistake.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 25, 2010 1:43 PM CST up reply actions
RE: Iupati and Pouncey, I don’t think they’d sweat their backgrounds at all. Their main concern would be their skillsets, and both are thought to have more than enough athleticism to play in an NFL zone block scheme (and I think almost every team in the league incorporates at least some elements of it some of the time, just to varying degrees) with NFL coaching. Proof that collegiate scheme doesn’t necessarily concern scouts is last year’s 3rd round pick Asher Allen.
Also, there may be some “upside” concern with guys who come out of a straight zone concept. Watching a prospect prove he can dominate in a man scheme is more impressive. IMO.
We need a guard so:
What about Stephen Neal in FA? He can definitely protect the passer, and he is a better Run Blocker than Herrera… He just needs a RB behind him who can make his own lanes when theres nothing open infront of him.
When picking at #30
you draft BPA, and it looks like that’s what they did here. No, LB isn’t a top need, but he was too good to pass up at that point. And in the second, Rolle seems to be the BPA too. All the best CBs were gone at that point. Might be a better idea at that point to go ahead with QBs, since all but the top two are still available though. But not a bad effort from the Vikings reps imo.
Man I started looking at Rolle a bit more
That guy is good. If we can grab him in the second round that would be a huge steal. Problem is I see him working his way back up the charts. Still I would be very happy if we picked him up. Intelligence is a huge thing when it comes to playing football and have a smart quick thinking DB who is fast is a big deal to me.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
WELCOME TO MY WORLD
I have been promoting Rolle and Anthony Dixon for a while. Problem with BPA (the viking way) is that you really can’t pick players. You group players by round and take the best of the group that falls to you. Griffen, Price, Graham, Weatherspoon 1st round
Dixon,Rolle, Mays, Johnson- 2nd round
Cox, Ghee, franks, Warren, 3rd round
That sort of thing. As Spielman said. If you can find a guy that can help you in a couple of years you take him.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
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