Noodling the Combine
by DCPurple on Feb 28, 2010 3:52 PM CST
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PrintAnyone else out there watching the NFL Combine?
Other than me, and the coaches and staff of most of the NFL teams, of course :) . I even saw Chilly & Co up in a box, and Bienemy down on the field helping out by putting the running backs through their paces. Good stuff.
Since there's no other thread started on this, I figured it was time. For me, this was my first chance to get a good look at some of the marquee college players and best of all, I got to see them performing in a direct comparison. Very illuminating. This thread is just for any thoughts and observations on the Combine, what folks saw that they want to comment on or share or complain about.
It's very disappointing that Bradford, Clausen, and Tebow didn't throw for the Combine. I understand the point of not wanting to participate in something that might result in bringing down their own stock, but that's really the point of it all; to show what they're made of. Since all of them are actually throwing the ball in practice as part of their injury/surgery recovery process, I think it's B.S. that they won't throw for the Combine. It's not as if they're facing charging defenders, they're just throwing to receivers in orange-cone-delineated routes and they're not being evaluated on whether or not the throw connects with the receiver. They're evaluated on their footwork, their drop-back technique, their throwing mechanics, the speed of their release. Hitting a receiver is just icing.
The entire Combine just goes on for hour after hour, day after day, and I honestly can't sit here that long watching everything. Unfortunately. And that means that I missed a lot of the drills that I really wanted to watch. I wish they posted a clear schedule of who was going to be drilling, when, so that you could schedule your viewing time accordingly. That's another reason why I'm very interested in what the rest of you caught and your thoughts on the players.
Pike and McCoy both looked good, as expected.
Tebow's getting a huge amount of attention, but the question is, is it deserved? The man's an amazing athlete, but is he a top quality NFL quarterback? Analyst consensus was that he's a good 3rd round pick... can't argue with that. But I think that if the Vikings want him, they grab him earlier than that, or not at all. If they go for him, he's a 2 year project, minimum. He has poor throwing mechanics that will take a LOT of work to overcome, but worse, he has the same run-instinct that T-Jack suffered from in T-Jack's first couple years.
I also liked what I saw of Lefavour, and Skelton could turn out to be something special if a team has the patience for him to develop.
One guy I saw that I really liked, and I think he's underrated, is Sean Canfield. Canfield is said to have a weaker arm, but he's very accurate at short to medium ranges, and at 6'4", he's going to have great field of vision. I really liked his pocket-presence and his level of confidence. He reminds me a lot of Pennington.
I'm also looking forward to seeing the QB's Wonderlic scores. I found a sample Wonderlic test at WalterFootball, you can take it for yourself to see where you stand :) . Naturally I had to see where I stood on this, I came in at a Wonderlic score of 45 (I missed 2 questions that I saved for last). This stuff is hardly rocket-science.
There's still a lot of Combine left to see, I'll post more if I get time to watch it :)
Enough of my babbling, looking forward to your thoughts, DN'ers!
This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.
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I'm starting to warm up to that Idea a lot Citrusviking
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Yes football geek I have been watching also.
I didn’t learn much about the QBs but I find no reason to dislike Zac Robinson, who performed well at the senior bowl. I would like to draft Skelton in the 5th and Robinson in the 5th with our compensatory pick. Send both to traing camp and see if either can be a good QB.
Anybody know more about the RB Javarris James from Miami. I liked the way he ran today.
Great late round pick up maybe.
I am also impressed with Charles Brown, OT. If he fell to us could he play more than one position? Maybe our first round guard and a Tackle substitute? Just a thought.
I really don’t like McCoy or Pike as our QB because they don’t throw downfield with enough power. However Snead didn’t look all bad today. Anybody else like Brown from WV?
Great idea for a post DCPURPLE>
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
I missed the offensive linemen, just saw the QBs, RBs, and WRs.
I think out of all the QBs I saw, Lefavour probably looked the best in terms of his mechanics and release and accuracy. But without Bradford, Clausen, and Tebow to compare to, it’s not really saying a lot. Skelton was intriguing, he’s such a big guy and will probably be able to take a lot of pounding, maybe even shed tacklers, lol.
I have to admit, I didn’t like what I saw from Brown. I know he wasn’t being graded on accuracy, but why not? How hard is it to throw to a target running along bright orange cones (I admit, the long wheel route is a lot harder, but most of the QBs did better on that)? Throwing over the receiver’s head, and at the receiver’s feet on the second pass, was very T-Jack-esque. Maybe I’m traumatized, lol.
What did you think of Golden Tate?
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
throw
Did LeFevour throw at the Combine?
Which quarterback was inaccurate?
I hope you don’t mind me chiming in. Golden Tate is only 5’10. He could be a great slot guy and deep threat, like Percy Harvin. He can also return.
by medicineball on Feb 28, 2010 9:36 PM CST up reply actions
QBs
LeFevour didn’t through in the graded competition but they did show him throwing in rotation to some of the WRs. This goes back to my issue with these top rated guys not wanting to be graded in the Combine. There’s really no physical that LeFevour and Clausen couldn’t throw (they said Clausen is on a 100-throw-per-day practice regimen). From what I could see, the NFL trainers and coaches are willing to work with these kids and give them every conceivable consideration to perform their best, and they take injuries and even out-of-practice into consideration.
The post analysts are high on WV’s Jarrett Brown, but during Brown’s first throwing set on a simple down-and-out, the first toss went over the receiver’s head and the second one hit the ground about 5’ in front of the receiver. The analysts were talking about how that didn’t matter, all they were watching was the dropback, the mechanics, the footwork, the speed of the release… however, it just didn’t seem like that hard a throw. Most of the other QBs nailed it pretty easily, at least getting it where the receiver could snag it.
MB, you’re always welcome to chime in, you have great insight on these guys :) . It’s got to be extremely hard to set up likely picks when you have to guess at the choices of 29 teams in front of you.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
It’s tough, to judge harshly how a QB performs at the combine. They aren’t familiar with these WR’s and timing has a lot to do with NFL offenses. Throws can be off target in these drills for no other reason than the QB thought the WR would cut sharper, cut more rounded off, or that they are faster/slower than he thought and the ball wouldn’t be perfect. No real fault to them for that. IMO, its more important to watch how they drop back and release the football.
All that said the Vikings could draft anyone of (in no particluar order) Jarrett Brown, Sean Canfield, John Skelton, Jevan Snead, Zac Robinson, Tony Pike in the 5th round or later and I would be cool with that. Any one of those guys has a chance to develop into, at the worst, a great back-up QB for the Vikings.
Brown did look a lot better in the latter series, I saw the recap of that. I wouldn’t be upset if the Vikings gave him a shot.
Skelton is just intriguing, that a guy that big can perform well at QB. His size should make him both harder to haul down and maybe even less injury-prone. Shades of Big Ben.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
I didn’t learn much about the QBs but I find no reason to dislike Zac Robinson, who performed well at the senior bowl. I would like to draft Skelton in the 5th and Robinson in the 5th with our compensatory pick. Send both to traing camp and see if either can be a good QB.
That’s why I don’t think throwing 15 passes on 2-3 routes at the Combine really proves anything. Sure you might be able to see how much zip a guy has or his footwork (against no pass rush), but all these guys have been working on improving their mechanics since their seasons ended. Its going to take 1,000+ reps before it becomes automatic. What they show on film is the best litmus test.
Skelton is an interesting prospect. People are going to be looking for the next Joe Flacco. I think that’s a bad idea. Skelton needs to be looked at for what he is. A big, strong armed, raw QB prospect. This is a guy you bring into camp and groom him for 3-4 years before you can expect anything from him. He was a Texas kid that didn’t get any looks from Texas schools, so he ended up a Fordham.
Robinson is also a project guy. He was a converted WR. Usually it’s the other way around. He has a lot of upside.
If we’re talking about drafting a guy for down the road, I’d much rather go with a guy like Dan LeFevour. He’s a lot more polished. There’s a lot of film on him. He’s a leader. He’s a student of the game. Plus, he’s got some really good physical tools.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Some guys I am watching
Chris Hawkins, CB, LSU, was a starter and a producer on the team. He played in the SEC and he stops the run. He is a late round draft choice, probably, or even an undrafted free agent. He fits the kind of guy the Vikings want at cornerback, but doesn’t require a high draft pick.
Kareem Jackson, CB, Alabama. Everyone assumes he was good only because he played with the great Alabama defense. But if he is great in his own right, he will be sitting there in the early to late 3rd or even 4th round, and that is a value draft pick.
Walter Thurmond, CB, Oregon, was a top prospect. Then he had a knee injury. He has been downgraded very far. If his knee is OK, he could be a huge steal for the Vikings.
Roger Saffold, OT, Indiana, is starting to get notice. He didn’t zone-block in college, but he can punish defenders and get to the second level. He could be a great guard for the Vikings if he could learn to zone-block. He would also add depth to the tackle position.
Toby Gerhart, RB, Stanford. He ran a great 40 time for a man his size. He is an upright runner like Robert Smith, but slower. Otherwise he reminds me of Chester Taylor except without the elusiveness or experience.
Andre Anderson, RB, Tulane. He came from the same program as Matt Forte. He is one of the guys who already has learned to pass protect. He is good academically and might be able to take over for Chester Taylor as the 3rd down back if he leaves.
Ciron Black, OT, LSU is a guy that lifelongvike pointed out to me. He is a high character guy and a solid blocker. He won the award for best offensive lineman in the SEC last year as a left tackle. He will probably switch to guard. If he can learn to zone-block, he might be able to help the Vikings.
Barry Church, SS, Toledo, 6’2, 219, 4.56 was a huge producer in college. He has prototypical NFL size for his position and can be obtained at a later draft round than a Taylor Mays or Myron Rolle.
Blair White, WR, Michigan State. Looks like a very solid receiver and available with a late-round pick.
I'm glad you started this thread DC
My boys were sick this weekend, so I had little to do other than sit around and watch TV. Here are a few gems that I discovered this weekend (I will include positions that have been mentioned as need for the Vikes, and even a few that would be gravy):
Guards:
Shawn Lauvao, ASU. This kid looked really good. He’s athletic, strong and has really good footwork. He’s a lot more polished right now than Mike Iupati. I will address that later.
Rodger Saffold, IND. I think MB made a good assessment earlier. This guy is a monster. I think he would be an upgrade over Herrera immediately.
Marshall Newhouse, TCU. This guy definately passed the eyeball test. I haven’t seen much film on him. I’m going to start by trying to dig up the Fiesta Bowl against Boise. More on him later.
Dark Horse. Shelley Smith, CSU. Also put up some good numbers at the Combine this weekend. CSU always has a strong rushing attack. I want to look at some film of this guy. But I am definately interested.
Tight Ends. This group was impressive. Deep class. After seeing all the talent, I would welcome the Vikes drafting a TE this year.
Dennis Pitta, BYU. This kid is the real deal. Soft hands. Good speed and power. If he goes to the right team like the Vikes, he will have the best career out of this TE class.
Tony Moeaki, Iowa. Another impressive kid. Well coached at Iowa. Looked very fluid in the drills. Posted some good numbers in the tests. Probably won’t have huge stats coming from Iowa, which is a run heavy team.
Nate Byham, Pitt. Took that back seat at Pitt to Dickerson, but was 2nd team All Big East. Known for his strong blocking ability. But he also looked real natural running routes and catching passes.
Dark Horse. Clay Harbor Mizz St. Havent seen any film, but he had an impressive workout.
WR’s. I’ve said before that I don’t think we need to draft a WR, but I wouldn’t mind if we landed one of these guys:
Scott Long, Louisville. Big, strong and really fast. Think poor man’s TO (ability wise).
Carlton Mitchell, USF. Another big, strong target.
Emmanuel Sanders, SMU. Super Quick and good hands.
Kyle Williams, ASU. Another quick athlete.
RB’s I also don’t think we need one, but here are a few that caught my eye:
Montario Hardesty, Tenn. Dude is a freak.
Ben Tate, Auburn. Another freak.
Ryan Mathews. Smooth, fast, strong runner.
I can’t wait to watch the defensive players this week. A few I’ll have my eyes on are:
Daryl Washington LB, TCU
Tyson Aluala DT, Cal
One thing’s for sure, this is going to be a deep draft. There is no doubt that we will be able to find a really good player at #30. I’m even starting to lean toward taking Colt McCoy with that pick. I don’t think Iupati or Weatherspoon make it to 30. Plus all of the “hig rated” corners are small (5’10" range) and don’t really fit our scheme.
I had a chance to watch the replay of the Senior Bowl on Friday night, and it is obvious that Iupati was able to use his strength to roll people over playing for Idaho. His technique and footwork need to be improved. He held on most plays in the Senior Bowl because of bad footwork. So I think we could wait till the 2nd or 3rd round for Lauvao or Saffold and come out a head. I know MB loves Weatherspoon, so do I, but I think we can wait and to address LB and pick up a Washington in the 2nd. It’s going to be fun!
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Shawn Lauvao
He is a high character guy, a workout warrior, gym rat, competitive, and he played in a zone-blocking scheme. He had a poor Senior Bowl. Maybe they use power blocking there, and he had trouble adjusting. Any more info on him is great because if he can be the guard we target to be a starter, we can get him easily in the 4th or perhaps even 5th rounds. Can he be a starter?
In the first round, if Weatherspoon is taken higher (and it looks like he will now), some other player like Dan Williams or Brian Price will drop. It will work out.
by medicineball on Mar 1, 2010 10:37 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I think with his performance at the Combine
Lauvao goes in the 3rd round. If he did slip to the 4th, that would be a steal. I also like Saffold.
In the first round, I am really starting to like McCoy at # 30.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Interesting
That would be great if Lauvao could be drafted in the 3rd round, and start for part or all of the year at right guard. That allows us to get two more likely starters in rounds 1 and 2 at other positions. On Saffold, with the attention he is getting, and his ability to play tackle, it sounds like we would need to draft him in the first or second rounds.
On Colt McCoy, I am a fan. He has great athleticism and competitiveness. He reminds me of Drew Brees except he’s an inch taller and has quicker feet.
In the BCS Championship game, he suffered a nerve injury. He lost feeling and strength in his throwing arm. In the locker room, he tried to throw a five-yard pass but the ball fluttered out. He was not in pain but he could not throw. He had to sit out for the rest of the game. This led some people to wrongly draw a conclusion that he quit on the team. The doctors prescribed only rest, and say it was a freak injury.
The knocks on Colt McCoy are his below average height, the fact that he was a running quarterback in college, and questions about whether he can withstand the physical punishment of the NFL and keep playing. There is also
He’s an accurate thrower. He doesn’t have the big arm like Favre, Tarvaris Jackson, or Jevan Snead, but he puts the ball where it needs to go.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/09000d5d816a81de/Colt-McCoy-s-draft-stock
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/09000d5d816a083f/Draft-Journey-Something-to-prove
Colt McCoy might be good.
by medicineball on Mar 1, 2010 11:37 AM CST up reply actions
With the way we move the ball
I think an accurate thrower would be a better fit for us than someone who can throw out the deep bomb. Don’t get me wrong i really like the deep bomb and it keeps defenses honest, but we have a lot of people on this team who are very good at getting YAC (Rice, Harvin, AD) This is something TJ doesn’t really have, he can work out the long ball but his accuracy (to me) is suspect, unless they are teaching shoe string catched in camp, then it’s the receivers fault after all.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Imagine this draft:
1st round: Colt McCoy, QB Texas
2nd round: Dennis Pitta, TE BYU
3rd round: Shawn Lauvao, G ASU
4th round: Jerome Murphy, DB USF
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Jerome Murphy
Maybe OK. I’m still gun shy on Colt McCoy, but I’ll give that one to you.
Jerome Murphy has great physical tools but there are questions about his seriousness and work ethic. In a report on their pre-combine workouts, this was said: “The word in Florida is Pierre-Paul has also missed a few workouts as he has spent a bit of time partying. The same has been said, but to a much larger degree, about his college teammate Jerome Murphy who is presently training with Pierre-Paul.”
Can you imagine how hard it would be
To be a 21 year old professional football prospect, living in Florida?
But that does raise some red flags.
I will admit that I didnt likeMcCoy throughout his career, but I think that was largely due to the fact that I hate Texas.
The kid is a winner. He is a leader. He makes others around him better. Take his dimminutive roomate. A lot of people on here were big on him. But he looked average at best yesterday working out with all the other wideouts. It became apparent to me that McCoy made him better.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Same reasoning I have with Tyler Sheehan, except he is a little taller than McCoy, a better arm, not as athletic, and comes from a smaller school.
I just have to question the fact that he didnt receive an invite to the combine
I mean even Skinner, Skelton and Thad Lewis were invited.
I need to look up some film on Sheehan so I can see what youre buzzin about!
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
With all the guys that decided not to throw, you think they would have invited him
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
I like the use of the first round pick on a QB.
I know we have a lot of places to fill but it would be nice to see Chilly and Co. Working on the QB situation just in case our two current back ups are just that.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
One more thing
If Favre or Jackson do not return, there will be room on the 53-man roster to add a quarterback.
If both return, there won’t be.
Rosenfels is pretty much a lock to stay.
My preferred scenario is everybody returns, we draft an unheralded quarterback (Sheehan) in the 6th round, then we put him on the practice squad for a year. Then, Favre triumphantly retires after the 2010 season, and we’ll see what happens from there.
We could not put Colt McCoy, Dan LeFevour, Tony Pike, or John Skelton on the practice squad because they would be signed away like Tyler Thigpen was.
So this whole discussion takes us back to the conversation about Tarvaris Jackson’s future.
In 2010, I envision the Vikings QBs as Favre, Jackson, and Rosenfels, with Sheehan on the PS.
In 2011, I envision the Vikings QBs going into training camp as Jackson, Rosenfels, Sheehan, and Greg McElroy, Alabama (or some other rookie QB), with the top three surviving the final cutdown to the 53-man roster.
CB, please
I wouldn’t be too disappointed in a 1st round QB (as long as he turned out to be good), but I think that a true shutdown/cover CB is more often a rare 1st rd commodity while QBs can be found throughout the draft.
Well, good QB's are just as rare
You can find a CB all over the draft as well KC. A trully good QB is pretty much the rarest gem out there.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Corner's that I want to get a close look at today are:
Chris Cook, Virginia
Myron Lewis, Vandy
Jerome Murphy, USF
Brandon Ghee, Wake
Donovan Warren, Michigan
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
I have to say that is a pretty WEAK example of the Wonderlic test. Looks more like a standard IQ test than a specialized Wonderlic test.
How about Tebow?
I know mostly everyone here doesn’t like him, but I want to see his new throwing motion. I mean this guy is very athletic. He could be perfectly used in Minnesota’s west coast offense.
I think that he might become very good, and I would hate to see that happen with any one other than the Vikings… I mean if all those guys help him change his throwing motion, then they must know there is something special about him, right?
Tebow's biggest upside are in his intangibles
What I need to see from him is an ability to read defenses, pocket awareness, ability to make all the throws, and the ability to stay in the pocket and trust his receivers to get open.
He had a poor senior bowl performance. He looked very uncomfortable under center. He wanted to take off every time the pocket collapsed. And everytime he did take off, the top caliber linebackers tackled him with ease.
He will need to be developed for at least 3 years. Do we have the time to do that?
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
If you don't have 2-3 years then don't ever take a QB.
I’m not trying to be a smart a—. I don’t care who you take . Even Peyton had a terrible 1st year. Brady st on the bench for one year. Except for maybe 5-6 Qbs in the history of the game you had to wait for their development.
Colt McCoy simply does not have the power to make hard throws neccessary in the pro game. I’m talking across the field not down the field.
Small school guys like T-Jack need time.
Pike is weak armed.
Snead is inaccurate.
Robinson worked out of the shotgun.
LeFevour is a coward, according to MB, shotgun kid from a small school.
Tebow is a shotgun QB with bad mechanics.
All of them have issues or they wouldn’t be ranked 2nd round or worse. You will have to train any of these guys for a couple of years.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
Actually Manning had a great first year
his team however sucked. He broke records for his passing as a first year QB. The Colts however used to be the Detroit Lions of football, so it was a long turn around for the man to make that team competitive.
I understand that it takes a while to make a QB into a star. But some of the QB’s that made it out and played their first year look much better than TJ has ever looked to me. Basically I guess I just disagree with you LLV. You see much more utility in him than I do.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
It was more of a rhetorical question, LLV
But I appreciate your thoughts on the matter anyway.
The point I was trying to make is this; IF Favre comes back, that gives us one more year on borrowed time…then what? That means an untested, unproven, unorthodox young QB such as Tebow would only have a one year stay of execution. That’s not enough time to develop him.
You’re right, most young QB’s would benefit from sitting for a few years. But there are some guys that were able to get things going early in their careers. Brady, Rivers, Flacco, Sanchez, Ryan, Manning are all examples of young QB’s that made a huge impact on their teams very early in their careers. I’m willing to bet that Rogers would have been ready to go in year 2 as well.
I just don’t see Tebow in that same class of guys. And if you read my post again, I said it will take at least 3 years to develop Tebow, but probably more.
As far as Colt McCoy and LeFevour go, I disagree. One thing those two guys have in common is that they made their teams better. We can probably all agree that we’d rather the two look like John Skelton (6’5" 245 lbs.), but the reality is those two kids are winners, they are leaders, and they have some pretty impressive statistics to go along with it. LeFevour is not a coward. The kid is tough. 4 year starter, 2nd all time in total yards in NCAA history. These two are more pro-ready than Tebow.
In Tebow’s case, Florida is loaded with talent (not taking anything away from Tebow but the kid had Harvin, Murphy, Hernandez, etc.). I mean lots of QB’s at Florida have had really good college careers. Same might be said for Texas, but McCoy has better numbers than all of them, including VY.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
One more thing:
Texas probably didn’t belong in that title game, but McCoy willed them to it. A freak injury kept them from winning it.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Just curious but if you say this about McCoy
Same might be said for Texas, but McCoy has better numbers than all of them, including VY.
then you have to say but Tebow beat the records of them all.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Mar 2, 2010 10:51 AM CST up reply actions
Yes, but most of Tebow's records are rushing and total TD's not passing
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
That might seem like splitting hairs
But there’s no way Tebow gets to run with reckless abandon in the NFL the way he did in college
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Tebow's running made a huge difference... in college
Defense would spread out and loosely cover receiver’s because the threat of Tebow running kept them looking in the backfield. If you watch video of him, most of his plays involve him having a lot of blocking, but he still moves around behind the line of scrimmage before deciding where to throw without a lot of pressure on him.
Most teams in college don’t have the athletes to constantly defend an open field and a dangerous running QB. This gave Tebow more lee-way than most because now he doesn’t have to throw with much accuracy because defenders are more worried about him running for the 1st down than lobbing it deep so coverages are generally soft to give the lesser athletes a chance to make a play on the ball while still being able to stop him from escaping the pocket and running down field.
People at the combine were excited about him running a 4.7, but all I could think was that a lot of DE and LB’s (only 3 LBs overall ran slower than 4.7 this year and 20 DE’s ran a 4.7 or better per Draft Countdown.com) run that fast or faster in the NFL. Sure 4.7 will let to run past the likes of Coastal Carolina and FIU, but in the NFL it will get to tackled for a loss or no gain and secondaries will be covering his receiver options much tighter than he had in college.
Make no mistake
Tebow will likely be considered one of if not the best college football player of all time. But you are right, a large part of his skill set which made him great in college will not transfer to the pro level.
McCoy’s skill set on the other hand required him to be accurate, use his legs to keep plays alive and occasionally use his athletic ability to make plays.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
I am not trying to be argumentative about Colt. But didn't I hear that his running yards is what kept most of his drives alive?
I know he completed 70%+ of passes but he ran a lot I heard. I don’t know the stat myself so could be wrong.
I don’t understand the distinction between these players. Both are great college QBs. Both out of the Shotgun. One is larger. One is more accurate. Both have great intangibles. On the pro level the major difference between them is Tebow has a very strong arm. Colt is extremely accurate.
Pick your poison.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
There's no doubt that McCoy
Used his athletic ability to make plays. But not anywhere near as much as Tebow or VY. Colt threw the ball plenty.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
I think Tebow's arm strength will be scrutinized as well
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Please tell me what you base that statement on.
I think Tebow’s arm strength will be scrutinized as well
No where have I ever read or heard that his arm strength was anything other than STRONG. His athletic feats at the combine say he is a very strong athlete. Where would anyone get the idea that his arm was weak, or even less than strong? In fact if he were not strong armed I doubt that any team would even be considering him for their team at all.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
Watch some film on him
I’ve watched a lot of Florida’s games over the last several years. vikingfuture pointed out earlier that Tebow really never had to rely on his arm strength or accuracy in college because his running ability had opposing DB’s all jumpy over the fact that they might get run over by Tebow.
The few times that Tebow did throw long balls or deep outs, there wasn’t much velocity on the ball. It always sort of fluttered. There’s no question that he is a monster in the weight room. He lifted regularly with the linemen and not the skill guys at Florida (which I think will go along way in terms of winning over his teammates). But the bench press and power clean doesn’t neccessarily translate to arm strength. Think about Randall Cunningham. He was a string bean. Probably couldn’t bench nearly as much as Tebow, but he sure could chuck the ball about 75 yards down field.
Its more about flexibility, leverage (tall), and core strength than actuall “arm” (bi’s and tri’s) strength. Some time guys that are too bulky are inflexible and therefore unable to throw ball with great velocity.
Other examples of “strong armed QB’s:” Jeff George, John Elway, Brett Favre.
None of those guys were known to be much of a gym rat. They are tall (6’3" +), flexible guys with big hands and good core strength.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Plus Tebow's slow delivery
Takes a lot of velocity of off his passes. It’s more about his mechanics than strength.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
"arm strength"
A lot of TV pundits and commentators, and fans, including me, use the term “arm strength” when we really mean “throwing velocity.”
A guy like Tebow has strength in his arms but not a lot of throwing velocity.
by medicineball on Mar 3, 2010 10:15 AM CST up reply actions
Well stated
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
A lot of these QBs will be 24 year old rookies: Pike, McCoy, Robinson. Clark…
I always look at a prospect’s age, and age still seems to be an underrated aspect to evaluation. In general you want younger guys, because if you’re a player good enough to garner NFL consideration at a relatively younger age, A) your college production is more remarkable and B) you probably have better upside.
Now, in fairness, age is probably least important at QB. I’d consider 24 a big red flag at a “matchup” position, but at QB you can let it slide. But I still think it’s worth considering.
I also prefer seniors at QB. There just aren’t very many underclassmen QBs who have succeeded.
Ideally you could find both. Guys like Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees were 22 year old rookies who were also seniors. That’s pretty rare. About the only guy in this class who can make that claim is Armanti Edwards out of Appalachian State, and he’s an even littler version of Pat White and is expected to change positions.
At any rate, I’d expect them to drop one of Sage/Tarvaris (you can only invest so much money into your QB depth) and draft someone late or sign a UDFA, but purely as depth/scrath ticket a la John David Booty. Is there a chance they get lucky and pick a guy who develops into something more than that? Sure. It is a scratch ticket, after all. But I’m not expecting them to find their 2011 starter in this draft.
Interesting.
Dan LeFevour will turn 23 this month.
A 22-year-old senior is Tebow, turning 23 in August.
Tyler Sheehan is age 22, turning 23 in November, a senior, a three-year starter at QB, and had a lot of production.
by medicineball on Mar 3, 2010 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, I was using a player’s season age as its listed on pro-football-reference.com, which is listed simply enough as the player’s age on December 31 of that year. I don’t have a problem with guys who turn 23 before then, I just get nervous about those 24 year olds (although again at QB it’s not as big a deal.
I was thinking about that the other day
Its funny, because as a high school coach or college coach, you want the kids to be older. But not so for the NFL.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Good point. But I think pure physiology is of prime concern the younger you get. There’s a lot physical growth going on during this time, so as a high school coach, you can’t match up a 10th grader (in general) in the trenches with 18 or sometimes 19 year old seniors. Just like in college you usually won’t win playing 19/20 year olds against 22/23 year olds. More often than not that’s going to be asking too much to match up physically.
But you’re right, when it comes to NFL evaluation it turns. And in fact you WANT the kid who’s kicking butt at 20 against 22/23 year olds. Because he’s probably a stud.
I’m still surprised age is as underrated as it seems to be, though. They value it highly in baseball and football. But nobody seemed bothered last year that Peria Jerry (as an example) was a bit long in the tooth as a DT (a pure matchup position).
And while I can’t say for sure, it seems the Vikings like to draft younger guys (Sidney Rice, Harvin, Guion). I like that.
Off the top of my head, younger guys in this class include Derrick Morgan, Earl Thomas, Rodger Saffold, Brandon Graham, Brian Price…
finally
Rennie Curran, LB, Georgia, is just 21 and turns 22 in November.
by medicineball on Mar 3, 2010 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
That just makes me feel old when you put it that way
First I had to get used to the idea of being older than all the girls in playboy, now I have to get used to idolizing players that are younger than me! WTF!
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
you hit the nail on the head jianfu
But I really don’t see the need for concern for QB’s as you stated. In fact I can see it as a plus. He should be more mature and ready to handle the spot light. Plus at 24, he should still be able to give 10 good years to your franchise. Whereas a younger kid might have to be groomed until he’s 24 anyway.
RB’s, DB’s, and maybe even WR’s on the other hand, I might be a little concerned with age.
I hope people are concened with Dennis Pitta’s age, TE from BYU…that way he falls to us in the 3rd or 4th round!
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Tebow's mechanics
The core issue is that his release is too slow. A major part of the reason for that is that he holds the ball too low as he’s dropping back or waiting for a receiver to pop free. This isn’t something he thinks about, he just does it because he was never taught to hold the ball at about shoulder-height. Can he be trained out of it? Probably, but if so, only because he’s willing to be.
The concern is that if you have to think about what you’re going to do next, you’ve lost time. All the training and drills that players go through is so that their body learns to react instinctively, and that’s taken to a higher level in the NFL which has a lot to do with why the speed is so fast. Like a ‘physical memory pattern’. Right now, Tebow has the wrong arm throwing mechanics instinct. The real worry is that even if you train him to fix it, will he revert under pressure? How many years until the new body instinct takes over and becomes ingrained?
I read that Favre had the same problem in the beginning, so clearly it can be overcome. But how long can a team afford to wait?
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Farve played the second year he was in the NFL didn't he?
After he got out of Atlanta? TJ has some issues as well, but I still havn’t seen him trained out of throwing to peoples shoes, or acting like a startled doe with hunters in the woods when the ball is snapped. Slow reads, bad reads… LLV stated several problems with this QB class, and I have to say he probably is correct on this, he does far more research than I do. However, TJ has various issues that he has had years in the profesional football league to work on. I have not see much improvement, except he stopped throwing ints and started throwing at peoples shoes… Oh God I’m getting revved up on TJ again.. Got to stop, must gain control, seeing green… GRUSS FRABBA!!!
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Please don't misunderstand me.
I was responding to the post and question of do we have time to develop a QB?
Grime you responded “no”. I simply meant that no matter who we take( even a Tom Brady) we will have to wait for development. I’m OK using the guys we have until the “Right” QB comes along. I hate to waste a good draft pick on a QB that doesn’t work out.
Just so you know, I understand T-Jacks shortcomings. I believe if he hasn’t fixed them then he will be gone shortly. I believe if he has fixed them he could be great. Chill Grime, the Vikes will be great this year. No need to get worked up. Have you been hitting that crack again instead of smoking like a good Hippy?
Your new Mantra. TJ will lead us to a SB. TJ will lead us to a SB. (repeat as needed)
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
The hard part is really knowing when "Mr. Right" does come along...
Some people didnt think Brees or Favre were Mr. Right (both 2nd rounders).
A lot of people didnt think Montana was Mr. Right (3rd round).
A lot more people didnt think Brady was Mr. Right (6th round).
San Diego thought Ryan Leaf was Mr. Right. Seattle thought Rick Mier was Mr. Right. Cleveland thought Tim Couch was Mr. Right. But the were all wrong.
We don’t know for sure if McCoy or LeFevour are Mr. Right. But I don’t think taking McCoy at #30 or LeFevour in the 3rd round would be wasting picks. They have a lot of upside, they would go to good teams, and they would get to sit behind one of the best QB’s in NFL history for a year. IMO it’s a win-win.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
I totally agree with one proviso.
If our coaching staff selects Snead, McCoy, Robinson, ect I have no issue with it. If they take one of those players #30 or #64 I have no issue with it. So far the three QBs they have drafted are all still in the NFL. An amazing feat in itself. I totally trust their judgment.
I also totally get it if they pass on a QB until the later rounds because none of the guys people want to select grade out as Mr. Right possibilities. The biggest QB draft busts come after the top 3 QBs are selected. Both Brees and Farve were the 2nd QB taken in their respective draft years.
So, I agree that if our coaches select a QB early it is not wasted. From my very limited perspective I see a whole lot of problems with every QB except the top two. I hope I am wrong and our next Franchise guy is waiting for us. But I’m not holding my breath.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Mar 2, 2010 10:43 AM CST up reply actions
Neither am I.
Sometimes this makes me drink. Then I realize I was already drinking when I started the chain of thought and that makes me drink as well. Not sure where I was going with this…
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
See what happens when you give up smoking?
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Mar 2, 2010 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
Well the cops don't keep arresting my liquor distributors...
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
LOL
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Mar 2, 2010 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
Sounds like someone needs to move to one of the 13 states where they won’t arrest your distributors, but instead take taxes from them. ;)
Um not familiar with those states...
Thought they all pretty much frowned on distribution to the not so medically challenged…. I think I’m taking this thread into a different place though.
So how about them Vikes? And how much would it suck if CT played for Green Bay?
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
I would be happy to wish CT well and then kick GBs rear.
But looking at the free agency market I really think he might resign. Big money does not appear as if its flowing. Big contracts are being dumped. Good time to stay home where you are loved.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
I would question Snead or Robinson drafted at 30
Mainly because we could definately get either of them in round 2. But I agree that since Childress and Spielman have worked together, they have drafted very well.
I don’t agree with the assessment that “biggest draft busts come after the top 3 QB’s are selected.” Here’s why: If you are the 4th or 5th QB selected (outside of 1983 and 1999) chances are youre a 2nd-5th rounder. Typically only 1st round draft choices ever get labled busts. If we do start considering 2nd rounders as busts, then we have to take a long look at TJack for that.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
I probably phrased that incorrectly.
I don’t agree with the assessment that "biggest draft busts come after the top 3 QB’s are selected."
I was trying to paraphrase a statistical study I had read where they looked at QBs that made good and QBs that are out of the league. The point was that it is more statistically relevant to success not which round you are in but which number QB you are selected. If you are drafted in the first three QBs then your % chance of being a successful NFL QB is much higher than if your not. First round QBs bust out at about 50%. But if you just take the top 3 (irregardless of round) then the % goes up to like 65%. Obviously, the later rounds are terrible as you suggested. That is why I am so amazed at Chilly drafting Thigpen- round 7 and Booty round-5. Even T-Jack was the 4th QB taken that year. I am anxiously awaiting the tender on T-Jack and where they select a QB (if at all) in the draft this year.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
That's an interesting study
But it probably boils down to how you spin the statistics. Sometimes teams start “reaching” for players because other teams started taking players at that same position. I believe it was rumored we were interested in Kellen Clemons, so the Jets “reached” for him in the second round, which in turn we “reached” and drafted TJack in round 2 as well. I’ve even seen that happen every year in Fantasy football. Once the first defense or kicker comes off the board, every one starts drafting them in bunches.
TJack was actually the 5th QB:
3. VY
10. Leinart
11. Jeff George v 2.0
49. Kellen Clemens
64. TJack
81. Whitehurst
85. Croyle
103. Smith (I doubt the jets ever planned on using him as QB)
148. Martin
164. Jacobs
193. McNeal (I think they were hoping for Slash part 2)
194. Gradkowski
223. Shockley
I think that study would be correctly used to examine just about any position out there. The first 3 RB’s drafted probably have a huge statistical advantage over the last 3 rb’s drafted etc. All it proves is that players drafted early usually are better football players than guys who drafted late.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
But looking at the list...
It’s pretty obvious, only the first 3 QB’s are considered legit starting QB’s in this league. Well Leinart…
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
No you missed the point. Most studies say that first round QBs don't work out
50% of the time. But if you forget about rounds and look at the position it raises up when you study the top 3 QBs taken. That is significant. I’m not sure it would hold for other positions. In fact I’m not sure later round RBs are not more effective than earlier round Rbs. But I have not seen any studies to that affect.
But you know about stats. Sometimes valid stats can make a convincing lie.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
No I get the point
But how often does the 3rd QB get drafted later than the 2nd or 3rd round? Probably not very often. Even this year, with a so-called “weak” QB class, I’m willing to bet Bradford, Clausen and McCoy all get drafted within the first 40-45 picks. A top 45 draft pick is still saying a lot about that kid’s ability potential.
I agree and think its a safe bet that the first 3 picks at any position are safer than those taken after. The 2006 QB draft proves that. It’s just that in 06 the top 3 QB’s were all taken in the first round.
You’re absolutely right: statistics don’t lie. But liars make statistics.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
not calling you a liar by the way. I was referring to the study :-)
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
I hope I am wrong and our next Franchise guy is waiting for us. But I’m not holding my breath.
I love #4! But wouldn’t it be great if we did find that Franchise guy for the future this year?
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
It would be freaken stupendous
I would start believing in Santa all over again.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
It's what I've been waiting for my whole life
And for the more experienced vikings fan, what he’s been waiting for since the Fran the Man days.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Wanna know something funny?
In 1991, the two QB’s selected before Atlanta rolled the dice on #4 were:
drum roll please…..
Dan McGuire and Todd Marinovich, respectively.
This eats at me: In 2001 with the 27th pick we passed on Drew Brees and selected Michael Bennent. With Robert Smith having retired that offseason, most of us probably understood the pick. Well get this: Had we taken Brees at number 27, we could have drafted Travis Henry in the second round. Instead we selected DE Willie Howard from Stanford, while the Bills selected Henry with the next pick.
I know, I know, we had drafted Pep in 1999. Hindsight is 20/20.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Lessons from history
We always need to learn from history.
Never stop building. It’s like if a great running back falls to us in some round this year. If he is the BPA, we should take him, even if it means addressing needs some other way, or later in the draft. We never know what the future is. Even if the future is bright, two great running backs are better than one.
Very good post, DCP
I don’t think Favre had anything like Tebow’s severe looping motion. Favre has not thrown with “proper mechanics” all the time, but his accuracy, quick release, and throwing velocity allowed him to thrive.
A recent report on PFT said that the Gators hired a quarterbacks coach in 2009, and he taught Tebow to fix his motion. But in games, under pressure (like you said), Tebow reverted to his standard looping motion.
Even if the improbable occurs and he truly fixes the throwing motion, the next question becomes how much zip and accuracy will be on his passes using the new motion.
Run-First QB
Thanks MB.
The other Tebow issue (to me, anyway) that’s a concern is that because he’s a quasi-RB, in watching his highlight reels, he has a tendency to rabbit when he ought to stand fast and give his receivers a couple more seconds to break free. It gives me T-Jack flashbacks just watching it.
My question is, is he a team-first player where he thinks of his receivers first, or is he a me-first player, where he thinks about how HE can make the play, with or without his teammate’s help?
Remember T-Jack’s dash that ended with him lowering his shoulder and trying to plow THROUGH a linebacker?
Remember the Rosencopter Incident?
All I ask is… please, no more of that.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
I'd actually like to see TJack rabbit more
After watching some 07 and 08 tape, too often he had the deer in the headlights look when the rush was on and he ended up throwing a jump pass off his back foot and subsequently got pancaked into the turf.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
I am assuming most people here watched some if not all of the combine (my DVR still has a few hours of it on there), does anyone else have an issue with how the NFLN broadcasts it? Most the time, Rich and Mike are just taking to each other about something not related to whats on the field and they do a horrible job of announcing who is about to run a drill and where they are from unless it’s a guy most consider going in the first round (i.e. the guys you’ve heard about 100 times before). Would it kill them, as a guy is about to do a drill, if they just showed a quick graphic with their name and school before they do a drill instead of after wards, if they do at all? Maybe a quick video rundown before the drill so that people watching know exactly what scouts are looking at as these guys run thru the drills? Better overall camera work? Are these things too much to ask for?
I guess I feel like they are trying to broadcast to so every football fan could presumably tune in and follow along, but I don’t think the general fans of football are the ones watching the combine. I would think most watching have a general understanding of what is going on at the combine, but want to see what certain guys do and if other guys catch their eye they don’t want to have to fast forward, rewind, or search other parts of the program to try and find out who that guy is. Alright, deep breath, rant time over.
I had the same exact thoughts.
At least put the players name on the screen when he’s running a drill. Show these athletes a little respect. There was plenty of time for talking about other players later. Absolutely terrible coverage.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
They used to do it much better about 3-4 years ago
Much more comprehensive coverage of the drills, which as a coach I loved. They also showed more graphics i.e. school, position, class, height, weight on each participant. You are right, too much talking.
I think the Tebow factor has played into this year’s coverage. Even Mike Mayock has been very annoyed by all the attention he is getting. I think this year’s combine has appropriately dubbed the “Tim Tebow Invitational.”
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
The Minnesota Vikings were the first team to interview Darryl Clark and they apparently really liked him. This is according to the source who tells ESPN affiliate Nittany Network that the Houston Texans are also interested in Clark.
There’s been concerns about Clark’s accuracy. Todd McShay writes, “Clark notched 21 reps on the bench press, which is good if he’s moving to running back. The problem is he’s too bulked up and it affects his overall accuracy as a passer.”
Of course, the Vikes and Texans might have some hybrid position in mind for him. But whatever the plan, the Nittany Network writes, “Our source says they have been keeping a keen eye on him since the beginning of this past season and have sent their people to check him out on several occasions.”
SKÖL VIKINGS!
SHOW YOUR HORNS!
Yikes
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Yeah
That doesn’t make me feel all warm and fuzzy… TJ part two!
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Adam Caplan was all over the Brown kid from WV
But he doesnt inspire great confidence in me either.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
No disrespect meant
But I only heard of him from you.
He wasn’t even invited to a combine in which very poor quarterbacks were.
From the few I’ve seen of him on tape, I liked him, but that fact raises questions about his play.
SKÖL VIKINGS!
SHOW YOUR HORNS!
Absolutely,
That’s my preference as well.
That or Tebow.
I don’t know if espn.com got to my head, but each day that goes through I like him more and more.
SKÖL VIKINGS!
SHOW YOUR HORNS!
maybe
Maybe they want to draft Daryll Clark to be the 4th quarterback and contribute on special teams? Groom him as a safety?
Uhm...
I haven’t thought of that, but it’s possible.
If they see in him enough potential to do it, and don’t waste anything more than a 6th round pick on him, I see no problem with that.
SKÖL VIKINGS!
SHOW YOUR HORNS!
Is it really possible that you two know more about QB drafting than the coaching staff?
They have drafted three out of three QBs that still are in the NFL and none are from the first round. You have drafted how many? But I am sure your evaluations are much better than there 400 hours of tape examination and live scouting. Just because I like Bill Stull’s stats doesn’t really make me believe that the Vikes should draft Bill Stull. If they believe in Daryll then I should take that seriously.
Now, really tell me what you don’t like about Daryll. His stats are fair. Good arm strength. Measurables are OK. He comes from a pro style offense in a major conference. What exactly draws rebuke?
If they do draft him late it only means that they didn’t see good potential in all those QBs people were projecting for the 2nd,3rd, and 4th rounds.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
Daryll Clark vs. Tyler Sheehan
Sheehan is better.
Daryll Clark had the slight edge in stats over Tyler Sheehan . Yet, Penn State was near the top of the nation in yards per rushing attempt. while Bowling Green had a poor rushing attack, and was ranked almost at the very bottom in yards per rush. If they had comparable talent, Clark should have had much better stats than Sheehan. In fact, despite the opposition knowing Sheehan was throwing, he threw many fewer interceptions per attempt than Clark did.
Tyler Sheehan and Freddie Barnes carried their team to a bowl game, Sheehan threw well to their receivers, especially to Barnes running his pro-style routes in traffic, in coverage, hitting him in stride, while throwing into the teeth of fierce pressure. Sheehan’s passing could translate directly into the pro game without the intervention of a project stage.
Sheehan is far more impressive as an NFL prospect at quarterback than Daryll Clark. Sheehan produced in college in the face of deeply challenging odds. Clark is a project who can make some plays here and there provided he is a on a stocked team, and whose reputation is partially based on going to a big school.
I’m all in favor of keeping Tarvaris Jackson no matter what, but let’s face reality. He has had to work really hard to be where he is at this stage in his NFL career. It would be ideal to draft a quarterback who will start out a lot further along. We can afford one 5-year project quarterback, and we already have Jackson. We can’t afford a second 5-year project guy. Cutting ties with Jackson and starting over with Clark to do the same thing starting from zero again does not make any sense.
We need to draft a “developmental” guy who might surprise and be ready in much less time. That’s somebody like Tyler Sheehan, Tony Pike, Dan LeFevour, Colt McCoy, John Skelton, or Ryan Perrilloux. Daryll Clark strikes me as a project.
by medicineball on Mar 2, 2010 11:50 PM CST up reply actions
How would you feel about trading down out of 30
To pick up Lefevour or McCoy in the second so we don’t have to reach quite as far. We’d hopefully still get the QB, and another pick in the thrid or fourth as well. (That is if they don’t think McCoy would drop to their regular second round spot of course.)
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
I’d rather just draft a player like Sean Weatherspoon, Mike Johnson, Taylor Mays, or someone in the 1st round, and wait until the 5th, 6th, or 7th to draft a quarterback. I think the LeFevours and Colt McCoys are too much of a risk to draft early on.
Can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs
but i do understand your point.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
I actually like the idea Grime
But it will only work if St. Louis draft’s Sam Bradford #1. If they don’t, they will probably take McCoy at the top of round 2.
So if St. Louis drafts Bradford, we can trade down a few slots from 30, pick up an extra 2nd or 3rd round pick (depending on the draft pick value chart) and draft McCoy, Daryl Washington and maybe Rodger Saffold all in round 2.
We can dream right?
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Is it really possible that I can’t discuss with a fellow Viking fan in a Vikings forum about which prospects I like or dislike ?
In absolutely any moment I stated that I knew more than the coaching staff or that I would do a better job than them or even expressed my opinion on Clark.
I just stated my preferences. If that bothers you so much, I am deeply sorry, from now on just ignore me. :)
SKÖL VIKINGS!
SHOW YOUR HORNS!
Tebow will be the real deal
All of this talk about Tebow’s “mechanics”, throwing motion, etc. is just a bunch of hogwash. The kid plays football and wins games. He will lead your team down the field at the end of a game. The Vikings would be crazy to pass on him with TJack & Sage as the only other options after Favre.
Tebow is better than all the rest of the QBs except for Clausen & Bradford according to most rankings. I actually like him better than any of them. He has everything else you want except for his “mechanics”. Any talk of him being inaccurate is pure BS and is being posted by someone who does not know what stats are. He is very accurate and throws a great deep ball. On top of all this, he is the most durable of all of the top guys. Some team will pick Bradford because he put on 18 pounds but as soon as he gets slammed on his shoulder again what is going to happen?
Another thing that is ridiculous is all of the complaints about any of these shotgun “spread” type QBs, is that they do not take the snap from under center and drop back. First off, many QBs int he NFL take probably 50% of the snaps from the shotgun. I would say that Favre definitely did last year if not more. Second, how long would it take for them to get it down. If all they did all day every day is take a snap and drop back, I would venture a guess and say they all can do it.
Byron Leftwich has a worse throwing motion and he went 7th or 8th and there was none od this talk about his motion when he came out. Randall Cunningham had a long slow delivery.
I would definitely take him or Taylor Mays if either was sitting there at #30.
I know some say Mays is not good and does not make plays on the ball and all of that nonsense but he did start at USC and he made more than his share of plays. He could easily play strong safety too. I’d take him right now over any of our safeties. I think Frazier can coach him up with that skill set. You cannot teach 4.3 speed. That will cover a lot of field.
But, in the end, I think both will be gone.
As usual,
I really liked your comment.
I also believe Tebow will be the real deal, one to go in the history books.
And,
I would definitely take him or Taylor Mays if either was sitting there at #30.+1 to that.
SKÖL VIKINGS!
SHOW YOUR HORNS!
Tebow
First of all, I think Mays would be a great draft choice at #1.
On Tebow, however, he just can’t throw that way in the NFL. The problem is that he has that looping motion and then the ball comes out relatively soft by NFL standards anyway. Then he will be picked off.
Leftwich has a rocket arm. Regardless of his famous wind-up, he can zing the ball hard enough to the receiver to prevent DBs from closing on the receiver. Yet, even with that advantage, he did merely OK as a starter for a while, and has now become a backup.
Tebow will have to adjust. People can’t just change the way they throw very easily (witness Leftwich and his inability to change), especially once they reach adulthood. The problem isn’t just “mechanics.” Anybody’s footwork can improve. Tebow can improve his “mechanics” but the throwing motion is the high hurdle.
Tebow is not worth the Vikings’ drafting him. He’s another Geno Torretta or Andre Ware or Archie Griffin. Great in college, but the game is different in the NFL.
Tebow just cannot fix the unfixable, and if he can it will be a miracle. We shouldn’t put down a draft pick hoping for a miracle.
by medicineball on Mar 3, 2010 12:01 AM CST up reply actions
Was thinking more of a Ryan Leaf
But I’ll go with your examples…
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
I think that speed was a mistake
I think the down graded it today.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Take it easy Mark. We're just expressing opinions
I love your enthusiasm for Tebow, but no need to take shots at each other. (Ya look who’s talking right?)
You can imagine what goes inside a war room (and by no means am I comparing our knowledge to that of actually NFL scouts and coaches).
I think a lot of people agree with you Mark. They see the intagibles that Tebow brings to the table. But I also believe that if you don’t learn from the past, you are doomed to repeat it. A lot of former draft prospects like the one’s previously mentioned (Ware, Torretta, Leftwich) serve as a reminder for the rest of the NFL (execept the raiders): Watch out for shotgun only QB’s and QB’s with unorthodox throwing mechanics.
I’m not saying that guys who are unorthodox can’t make it. Kosar and Rivers were/are as unorthodox as it gets. But they are the exeception to the rule and not the norm. Tebow has a tough road a head of him because of his mechanics, lack of pocket patience, and lack of playing in a pro style offense.
But if anyone is up for the challenge, I believe he is. He’d be a great kid to have in our lockeroom. He is a leader by example. He is a high character guy. I just think the point that Grime, MB and myself are trying to make is this: Can we afford to wait for a guy like Tebow to develop into a starting NFL QB, given our current situation?
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Tebow's BIGGEST Intangible
I think a lot of people agree with you Mark. They see the intagibles that Tebow brings to the table.
The one thing that keeps popping up is the talk about Tebow’s “intangibles”. His leadership ability, his ability to inspire his teammates, the fact that he’s squeaky-clean and has a tremendous work-ethic.
But the biggest, most important intangible that he could bring to the Vikings is his market-value. If the Vikings drafted Tebow, and had Tebow learning behind Favre, the buzz would be huge. Favre was a huge factor in putting tails in the seats last year, selling Viking gear and in general, helping to keep the Vikings in Minnesota.
I think drafting Tebow would double the fanfare around the Mighty Purple, and push the stadium issue perhaps over the top. On that basis alone, I’m in favor of the Vikings drafting Tebow, top pick if necessary.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
But what happens...
…when if he flops? That’s a pretty big hang over.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
It's not about his success
If he’s failing, as a rook, that can be glossed over for at least a couple years. In the interim, if the hoopla gets the Vikings their new stadium and eliminates the chance of being moved… I’ll take it.
I know, that’s cynical as hell, but here we are, 2010, and NO NEW STADIUM DEAL, and LA is knocking on the door. I say, if Tebow puts them over the top, saddle him up and ride him home.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
I agree with you, if it helps keep the team in Minny, do it
I just don’t know if Tebow will have that sort of effect in the Twin cities. I can’t say for sure because I dont live there.
I think he would have that effect in Florida, maybe even Carolina because those peeps are more familiar with him.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
I get worked up sometimes and I apologize.
I just go off of production. And he produced. That is all I know. Drafting Try Williamson and Demetrius Underwood were hangovers. This guy will not give us a hangover and if worse comes to worse he can be a HB/TE/FB or maybe even LB. he definitely could play on special teams.
I think that Chilly really likes him and if he si there at #30, I will be surprised if Chilly passes being the guru and all.
Tebow
Tebow is one of the best football players in college football history. His production is historic and off-the-charts.
Guys like Spurrier and Gino Torretta did not have that kind of production. Tebow’s college production might separate him from the quarterback busts of the past and put him in a special category. Good point.
If he does start throwing like a real NFL quarterback, he would be worth the #1 overall pick in the draft, not to mention the 30th pick.
by medicineball on Mar 3, 2010 10:07 PM CST up reply actions
There's no question about it, he produced like no other
But do his abilities translate to the NFL? He looked very shaky at the Senior Bowl. Very uncomfortable under center. And when the pocket collapsed, he took off. Except guys like Weatherspoon and Williams were there to stop him in his tracks.
I am just a little uncomfortable drafting a guy in the first round as an experiment. I mean if he ends up being used as a special team guy, thats a waste of a 1st round pick.
I really like the kid. I liked him in college. Just concerned…
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Arm strength?
This is the first I read of him having a ball that comes out soft or any other questions about his arm strength. The only thing I have ever read was about his throwing motion.
I could care less about his footwork because often times QBs are under duress and cannot execute proper footwork to get the pass off. That is just more mumble jumble to confuse people. Favre rarely uses proper footwork yet he gets the passes where they need to be.
That is all that matters whether or not the ball comes out soft or without accuracy or whatever. Tebow completed close to 68% or 69% of his passes in college. he gets the ball where it need to be.
Comparing him to Toretta or Ware is not even close. I can unsertsand that you do not want to waste a draft pick on him and if they did do it in round 1 with your boy Weatherspoon available, well I would hate to be watching the draft with you because, even though I do not know you, I feel you may blow a gasket. :)
I really doubt that Jacksonville passes on him. In fact to change up a bit, if the Vikings were going to try and get something for Edwards this year Jacksonville is the team we can probably trade him to for their 3rd this year (#74) and their 3rd or 4th next year. If they pick Tebow in round 1 then you know they have to go DE in round 3. We should be able to fleece them.
Just one more thing to add.
Footwork is very important in my view. Favre’s improved footwork in 2009 helped his game. Sometimes there isn’t time and the QB has to just chuck it, but otherwise they should use the right footwork.
I don't know TJ's hop throws are pretty sweet.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
His throwing motion diminishes the velocity on his passes
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Joe Montana's Boys
I know this is outside the scope of this thread (so sue me :) ), but I was thinking upcoming QBs and remembered the Montana boys. Joe Montana’s boys, to be specific.
The oldest, Nate Montana, will be draft-eligible next year, if he chooses to declare. He was behind Clausen at Notre Dame and transfered to Pasadena because he wanted more playing time.
The second lad, Nick Montana, just started with the Huskies, this will be his first year, so he’s a bit further out on the horizon.
I imagine the hoopla when either of them declare will be huge. The Manning boys were big news, but Archie was never as good as Montana was. These lads have learned at the knee of a Hall of Famer, they probably had a football in their hands before they ever touched a baby bottle. It wouldn’t surprise me if they learned to read defenses before they learned to read and write.
I’m just bringing this up to point out that as good or interesting as this year’s crop of QBs may be (and it’s considered a poor year for QBs), there’s even more intriguing QB possibilities in the next 3 year’s drafts. The Vikings might be well served to trade for those future high picks now so that they’d be positioned to take advantage of it, and not invest too heavily in a QB this year.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
would be pretty damn cool to have a Montana in the mix.
I mean if they are half the QB their Dad was… Now can they handle the pressure is the question.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
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