No one yells at manning
by YanksVikes on Feb 7, 2010 8:54 PM CST
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Printwhen he throws a crucial pick
all the announcers say is there was bad timing.
When favre does it, the announcers say he is trying to do too much, his ego is in the way.
as much as i like peyton, how people can critize favre and not peyton is beyond me
bu im frustrated because that should have been the vikings winning the SB instead of the cheapshot artist Saints
GO vikes
a much better team than the saints
This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.
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Because Manning didn't do much wrong
the defender made a hell of a play
Favre did something they teach you not to do in high school, and that’s throw late over the middle
From the only TRUE North division
by thewild_viking_twins on Feb 7, 2010 9:00 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Manning did throw across his body over the middle earlier in the game
he just made it, but then he hadn’t been turned into hamburger by then either :D
The Saints, the SAINTS!, just won the Super Bowl. The Saints!
Maybe there is hope for the Vikings after all.
Come on stop being Sarcastic
But Congrats!
Favre + 3 = ❼ = Vikings= 2009-2010 NFL Champions= New Stadium=Greatest Fans and Team!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 7, 2010 9:19 PM CST up reply actions
Excuse me while I go kill myself
I don’t know about you but it sucks when your team is better than the one that just won the Superbowl. I feel like the guy that’s been at a job all his life & guys come off the street & get promoted ahead of him. The Tampa Bay team that couldn’t win their 1st game for 2 years
Superbowl Champions, The Ravens an expansion team that’s been around for what 15 years Superbowl Champions. Now the Saints who have sucked forever Superbowl Champions. We have been to the playoffs more times than all these teams combined. What’s next the Lions. Some how some way the Vikes always seem to drop the ball. No pun intended. We have not always been the best team when we lost but we have been the best team on several occasions & we screw it up those times too. Now where did I put those bullets.
Give the Saint's credit
They seemed to have some luck but they had the balls to go for it.
It was definitely their year. Looking back, they had a lot of things go right for them. But, that’s what it takes to win it all, too.
But all luckiness aside, they also have a killer combination of right coach/right quarterback.
2006: Saints brought in Payton and Brees; Vikings brought in Chilly and TJack.
Brees to the Vikings?
The two teams bidding on Brees were the Dolphins and Saints. I think the Vikings wanted to deal Culpepper. If the Vikings had tried to go after Brees, that probably would have killed the Culpepper trade. The Fins would have smelled a scam. I wish I knew more about the situation though.
Yes
Their coach/qb combo paid dividends immediately and eventually.
Payroll ranks and results:
2006: Vikes 2nd after grabbing the best OL for record money; Saints 25th. Vikes go 6-10; Saints go to NFC Championship Game.
2007: Vikes 30th; Saints 3rd. Vikes are 8-8; Saints 7-9.
2008: Vikes 3rd after making the best DE in the game the highest paid defensive player in NFL history; Saints 5th. Vikes go 10-7; Saints break even.
2009: Vikes 22nd; Saints 4th. Vikes are expected to win the SB with Favre, settle for 13-5; Saints go 16-3 to win it all.
Note: Childress has enjoyed top-3 payrolls half of his seasons here while Sean Peyton has had top-5 payrolls 3×.
Looking at each payroll, it’s interesting to note that Heath Farwell (11th on the Vikes’ by cap value) would be the 7th highest paid Saint, just ahead of Jonathan Vilma! Now which player is really more important, hmmm? The Saints’ top 11 salaries actually, you know, contribute as every-down offensive or defensive players. And they have free agents on their team, but they seem to have taken less money to play for Peyton in NO. For instance, why on Earth is Ben Leber being paid more than Jonathan Vilma?!? That was supposed to have been a genius stealth bargain signing. Both were acquired via FA, and Vilma plays a more important position. This indicates that Childress has been allowed to go shopping but has usually spent his allowance on frivolous things.
something big
Wasn’t Farwell just re-signed? His money is probably front-loaded. If you compare the whole contracts Farwell and Vilma signed, I would bet that Vilma is paid more per year of the contract’s life.
Alternatively, Vilma’s contract could be front-loaded.
On Leber, he should be on the frying pan in my opinion. He dropped a bunch of interceptions down the stretch and otherwise failed to make plays.
I’ve wanted to like Leber since he was a K-Stater, and he does at least get his name mentioned 1-2x per game. I agree with you that he has failed to make some key plays.
I had thought that the NFL had changed their rules about frontloading and up and down, etc. contract structures. Over $3M of Farwell’s cap value is “other bonus” money. He started making tons of funds last year. Vilma has been over $4M each year with the Saints, so that looks right. I couldn’t look up the specific contracts at USA Today, though.
Vilma's contract
I thought it was a sign and trade deal the Jets made with the Saints? A long term contract that was spread out to make money up front and back loaded at the end with average salary in the middle? I might be wrong that was a few years ago.
The thing that upsets me most
is that my facebook news feed is littered with “geaux saints” posts. Most of the people I know are either Falcons or Panthers fans, being from the Carolinas, but going to school in Georgia. I just dont understand. Its like me saying “Go Pack” or “Go Bears” when they win a title. Doesn’t make sense. And it hurts even worse knowing that the Vikings were a better team than the Saints and happened to fall apart in just the right way that cost them a chance at the title.
I’ve been against Project Tavaris since its inception, but nothing would make me happier than celebrating TJ as Super Bowl MVP in 2011.
SKOL
However, watching the postgame stuff
did make me feel happy for Brees. He’s an exceptional player and person. And Payton isn’t so bad even if he did have voodoo magic on his side.
The game changer
That onside kick shifted the momentum. What a ballsy call.
I wanted the Saints to lose, but their win just makes the Vikings look even better.
Just wait until next season. No fumbles, no interceptions and no mercey.
Makes Favre look better too
Every time Favre has lost the NFC Championship, the team he lost to went on to win the Superpbowl
1995 Cowboys
2007 Giants
2009 Saints
Although dimming things a little is that Favre threw an INT near the end of each game with score either tied or within one score.
Agreed on onside kick. Reminded me of Packer-Cardinal playoff game.
Trade for Peyton Manning? No thanks
With Manning’s atrocious, completely unacceptable performance (throwing a pick-6 in a playoff game, I mean come on there is no excuse for that), his time in Indianapolis is done. He will be dealt by the Colts. The question becomes should the Vikings go after Peyton Manning? Think about it. The Vikings could give up a 4th rounder for him, but that is probably too much. Instead we could draft a guy who might become our backup special teams kickoff-holder-specialist, not that we even need such a player. But at least we would get more out of that guy than we would from Peyton Manning.
OK, that was a little sarcastic after people criticized our quarterback, Tarvaris Jackson, in similarly unfair terms after last year’s playoff loss to the Eagles. The point is, good teams don’t give up on guys that easily.
HA HA HA HA HA!!!
Ok Medicineball I don’t want to sound like an A-hole here, but REALLY, will your love for TJ ever show a glimpse of reality? You compare him to Favre now your comparing him to Manning, the PAYTON Manning not his inbred brother… (wait..) anyway, I’m sorry TJ couldn’t lick the dust off of Mannings cleats…
Sorry man I know this sounds like an attack and I don’t mean it as one, but TJ, Manning…
Dang thank I needed that this morning.
Haha I’m sorry but I don’t think Peyton Manning and Jackson compare to each other very well. If the Colts traded Manning, they would be giving up the best Qb in the league who has led them to 7 straight 12+ win seasons. If the Vikings traded Jackson….well in reality they probably couldn’t trade Jackson, unless they would be ok with getting a bag of footballs in return.
by packallday555 on Feb 8, 2010 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
This might make your head explode
Manning was 5-15 in his first 20 starts as a quarterback. Tarvaris Jackson is 10-10, including the playoff game.
In terms of passing efficiency, there is no doubt that Manning is superior to Tarvaris Jackson. It may be that Jackson will never equal Manning in regular season passing efficiency. But who cares? I don’t care very much about that.
The way I judge a quarterback is by wins and losses and turnovers. If you judge Manning and Jackson that way, based on the number of starts they have had, Jackson has actually been better than Manning at the same point in their careers.
In my view, a quarterback has two basic jobs: one, give his team an opportunity to win; two, do not turn the ball over.
Jackson is slowly making progress. Anybody who says Jackson can never be a great quarterback is dead wrong. We have not seen his ceiling. Every year he improves. He can become great if he keeps working hard. I believe that is the direction he is headed.
by medicineball on Feb 8, 2010 12:12 PM CST up reply actions
Ok now lets page back again and look at the team Manning was walking into.
The season before Peyton walked onto the Colts they were 3-13. His Rookie year they were also 3-13 BUT he passed for 3,739 yards and 26 TD’s and set five different rookie records. in 1999 he flipped it and finished at 13-3 had a 4,000 + yard season and another 26 td’s.
Let’s See what TJ has done in that time. Well ok I can’t they don’t add up in any measurable way. He completely sucks compared. First season he played 4 games and had 3 td’s (one rushing), 4 Ints and 4 fumbles. in 2007 he had 1911 yards passing,
12 TD’s (3 running) 12 int’s and 4 fumbles this is the only year he actually started 12 games… That was really the only year he acted as a starter for a large section of time.
Looking at these number (and they are just numbers) I would have to say that Manning beats the ever living crap out of TJ and TJ started with a much better team that Manning had by a large margin.
So I think it’s rather disingenious to compare these two medicineball like that. They are not even close… Sorry mate.
These numbers were retrieved from teh Pro-football-reference website.
It's the intelligence at the line
They don’t compare in this area at all. NOT EVEN CLOSE. So comparing TJack to Manning is a joke…
I would change that but only slightly
It’s the quarterback’s judgement at the line, or even in shotgun, that matters.
Quarterbacks with high Wonderlic scores don’t always become great. Quarterbacks without amazing Wonderlic scores can become great. Joe Montana, Phil Simms, etc.
You see...
…I still disagree about this as I don’t believe TJack has the “intelligence” at the line, or the “judgement” after the snap. He looks down his receivers continually and then if they aren’t open goes into his insta-scramble mode.
don't you think you just actually demonstrated
that “they way you judge quarterbacks” is not a very accurate one?
Manning was a bad quarterback his first two years? really?
Peyton Manning started right off the bat for the worst team in the league. Jackson started for probably a top 5 talented team in the league in his second season.
I’m sorry, I don’t mean to be an asshole but this is like the worst argument I’ve ever seen anyone try to make. There is 0 comparison between Manning and Jackson, and there will never be one.
by packallday555 on Feb 9, 2010 12:08 AM CST up reply actions
Effectiveness
We’re just talking about the first 20 starts of their careers.
If we look at passer rating, sack percentage, and probably fumble percentage, Manning is better. But if we look at interception percentage, Jackson is better.
Jackson’s biggest problem in his first three years was dealing with pressure. When he came under pressure, some bad things would happen: interceptions, fumbles, and soon. That is something that he can improve on with experience. For example, just knowing where to throw if there is a blitz.
This game is about winning and losing, not passer rating or yards thrown for. That is why Tom Brady is a much better quarterback than Peyton Manning. Many times he puts his team in position to win when it counts the most. Brady is clutch. Manning is great in the regular season.
Yes he stinks at pressure
But he also didn’t make his check downs correctly, he doesn’t look off defensive backs, he has no ability to audible out of the huddle, his throwing style looks at times like he’s playing out back in the play ground. His pocket awareness is poor. All this with the best RB in the league, and people putting two backs in the back field. This is a complete fail situation. Also, TJ threw a lot less than Manning did, does or will. It would be interesting to see int’s/ pass…
I don’t know Medicineball, I respect your football knowledge, but I think your blinded by TJ somehow.
I DRANK SOME WINE TONIGHT
That onside kick didn’t shift momentum, but it was still a great call. Saints kind of owned the second quarter. Then half time. Then the onside kick.
I see no one bothered to address the Favre/Manning comparison
Only one person addressed YanksVikes and it was a hater comment that Favre was in fact stupid to pass across his body, thereby confirming that by and large Manning can do no wrong and Favre gets no slack.
That’s because Manning is a media darling and Favre is the victim of relentless character assassination, mostly from the Packer propaganda machine. Also Favre is a rock star, for better or worse, because he is so incredibly popular (with fans)…in case you doubt that please notice the stats on setting records for viewers watching the Vikes/Packers games and sales of #4 jersey across the entire nation. Once you are that much of a fan focus the media figures out that they can get hits on their posts no matter if you praise him or trash him, but of course controversy is their bread and butter.
by lorenzo4 on Feb 7, 2010 10:12 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History.......
One Super Bowl Win, One Super Bowl Loss for both Favre and Manning!
Favre will Lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV ! GUARANTEED!
Favre will show who the best QB in NFL History!
Vikings @ Saints Sept. 9th, 2010. Rematch. Pay Back is a Beotch!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Feb 7, 2010 10:27 PM CST up reply actions
You guaranteed us a victory in Super Bowl XLIV
On the other hand, I’m up for some payback. Pass the purple Kool-Aid!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"All morons hate it when you call them a moron." -Holden Caufield
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Feb 8, 2010 5:19 PM CST up reply actions
heh.
never stop drinking that stuff.
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Feb 10, 2010 2:56 AM CST up reply actions
That's funny.
Favre a victim. Puhleez. Favre is a victim of his own ego, nothing else. Another thing, he’s the only active QB I’ve ever heard described as a “living legend”; plus, anyone who thinks Peyton hasn’t been taking a beating over that pick six has not been paying attention.
I will agree that the media just wants hits and so they stir the pot to get them.
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Feb 16, 2010 3:40 PM CST up reply actions
Holy crap a COLTS fan!
losing games sucks trust me we feel your pain.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
I'm beginning to get over it.
I had no idea losing the SB would hurt more than going one and done in the playoffs! lol
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Feb 16, 2010 4:14 PM CST up reply actions
Hey at least you got to watch your team play one more game.
You know Mannings getting up there in age, you want to trade your old tired qb for a nice bright and shiny one?
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Um, NO!
lol. I’d trade Chad Simpson, who we refer to as “The Human Touchback.”
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Feb 17, 2010 9:35 AM CST up reply actions
To address the point
As prompted by lorenzo4, Manning had to throw the ball somewhere on that play. He had a man open on a checkdown route underneath. He should have gone there with the ball. It was a mistake by Manning.
On the sideline, Manning was red-faced. He knew he screwed up.
Favre did not have to throw the football at all. He could have flipped it out-of-bounds if all the receivers were covered. I don’t think he scrambles with the ball due to being hurt. It wasn’t an “Elway at the goal line” situation because Favre could barely run as it was. If the Vikings had won, Favre would be needed in the Super Bowl.
Why did Favre jump in the air and throw a weak pass across his body? He was trying to make a play. It was just a bad decision.
Multiple things caused the Vikings’ loss to the Saints. Favre’s INT was only one cause. We all know about the others.
But ultimately, YanksVike is generally making a solid pointt. Both the Manning INT and the Favre INT were simply mistakes by quarterbacks. To say one was ego-driven appears to be dressing up the storyline. The “ego-driven” storyline has only a thin reed to stand on.
Favre was late to Rice on his INT!
Favre admitted it.
Favre was simply trying to give Longwell a for sure chip shot and the win!
Favre made that throw all season long!
12 men in the huddle lost that game. End of discussion.
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Feb 7, 2010 10:30 PM CST up reply actions
Favre did not have to throw the football at all. He could have flipped it out-of-bounds if all the receivers were covered
How many times have we covered this? If Favre throws away that ball, it’s a 55.5 yard field goal. Longwell told Childress at start of game that he thought his max range was 53 yards tht night. Hs career longest is only 55 yards.
Favre throw ball out of bounds, and, barring the longest completion of Longwells’ 13 year career, absolutely nothing changes from him throwing the INT. Saints take over on downs, run two plays, we go to overtime, Hutchinson calls heads, the refs take their payoffs from the Saints, and we all cry. Same ending.
by puddnhead on Feb 7, 2010 11:32 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
kicker could have made it
On PA’s show the day after the game, Longwell said he was hitting from 53 that night, and the ball was hitting the net. The net was six yards after the goal posts. A 56-yarder was in range.
Longwell also mentioned that the ball was jumping in the Superdome. We saw that on the Saints’ kickoffs. They went a long way.
Longwell had a very good chance at making that kick. I doubt Favre was aware of that, but still.
Favre should have decided to throw the ball away because it preserved a chance. Any chance is better than an INT. Throwing a weak jump-pass behind his body into traffic with the whole defense charging at him….. There is only one way to describe that, and it was a mistake.
Human beings make mistakes sometimes. Brett Favre is a human being.
On Bernard Berrian being open, I finally looked at the play again, and he was not open.
Coulda Woulda Shoulda
I agree with everything you just said. I even agree with some other options that you didn’t mention. AND I agree with not dumping too much blame on Favre for it.
All that being said… maybe it’s time to move along a bit. We’ve been here before, this year, as in 1975 and in 1998, we KNOW which team was the best in the NFL, even if that team didn’t win the Lombardi.
Let’s not keep dwelling on it, let the scab heal into a scar. Better to look forward, my friend.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Or he could have hit a wide open Berrian
for easily a 10 yd gain and a much easier FG attempt.
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
I think
I think he was covered. If you look at the play at normal speed, you can see a DB behind him. If Brett winds up to throw, that DB can easily come in and make a play on the ball, just as Porter did when the ball was thrown to Rice.
by medicineball on Feb 8, 2010 12:03 PM CST up reply actions
He was covered in the early part of the play
but by the time the ball left his hands Berrian was definitely open, at least more open than Rice was. But once Favre rolled out he stopped looking in Berrian’s direction. I still think he could have run for a few yards anyway, though Favre has never liked doing that. I understand he was hurting (understandably so) but if he was hurt that he couldn’t move 4-5 yards ahead of the line of scrimmage then why did they call a designed roll out?
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
taking a shot
If Favre takes a big shot while attempting to scramble, he would probably have been lost for the Super Bowl. I can see him not wanting to scramble, because that would hurt the team.
What Favre did had some justification, but it just didn’t work out.
I can agree with that
Though Favre has never wanted to scramble for any yards, I don’t think he was thinking about avoiding being hit in case he would miss future action. If that was the case, they could have changed up the protection to prevent some of the hits he was taking. To his credit, he preferred to have the receivers available as options in the passing game. He has never avoided contact behind the line of scrimmage but I saw him avoid contact past the line of scrimmage too many times in his career to think that he would actually run the ball. Too many times he has scrambled past the line of scrimmage by a good 5 yards and then just thrown the ball anyway to avoid a hit, taking the obvious penalty instead.
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
How about....
a Favre – Jackson dual quarterback situation next year. It worked really well for the Eagles with McNabb and Vick for a while. I don’t know why it didn’t pan out for them in the end, but it sure seems like it would keep the defense guessing.
That is, if Favre is in or not.
I suggested that same thing earlier this year.
Why not use Tjack in the wildcat for a play here & there. Maybe even a series or two per game. Lots of colleges have run a 2 QB system with success, If Favre comes back lets save some wear & tear on the old guy.
So now, we get to hear the media talk about what the superbowl means to the big easy
Its like ESPN honestly believes that the saints and all of the Nawlins population live together in the superdome…its time to wake up people, this title is not going to put people to work
geez
Lighten up.
No, it;’s not going to solve every last problem in NO (nor would have evrythign been perfect in Minneapolis either, if Fates had only smilled on us a little). But, yes, it does mean something to somebody, someplace in Louisiana.
New Orleans has been transformed
Every problem in New Orleans has now been solved by the Saints winning the Super Bowl. Poverty, homelessness, crime, and questionable hat fashion—it is all now SOLVED.
PRAISE BREESUS!!!
*belch
I've been thingking about this the last couple days
Comparing Favre’s most recent game to Peyton’s is, I think, a prime example of what Brett meant when he said in his Packer retirement press conference “being Brett Favre got hard to live up to.”
Both offenses got the ball late in the 4th quarter, down by exactly one touchdown + PA. Vikings got the ball on their 43, 7:57 to play, Colts got theirs on the 30 with 5:35 on clock.
Favre & Vikings drive for the tying touchdown, then get the ball back & leads another drive from their own 20 to go 50 yards in 75 seconds of clock and get a first down within field goal range. At which point Minny burns it’s first and 2nd downs to run down clock, and then commits the 12 man penalty to put us out of FG range, forcing him to have to get yards on 3rd and long.
Manning & Colts go 40 yards on that drive, then throws the pick. He gets the ball again and turns it over on downs.
Now, I don’t think Manning should be criticized, don’t get me wrong. For example, on that 4th down play, Wayne should have caught the ball, IMO.
I’m just marveling at the doubles standards here. Let’s just pretend a minute that it really is all about the QB (which is implied by anyone who’s pinning our loss on Favre).
Favre needs to make two drives at the end of the game: One for a TD to tie the score: check. A second to get within FG range in the closing seconds for the win: check again. He only screws up after an incomprehensible penalty that has nothing to do with him forces him to get a completion on 3rd and long.
Manning needs to make two drives at the end of the game: One for a TD to tie the score: bzzt, INT. A second chance: bzzt, turn over on downs.
Even weirder, everyone talks about Manning being the greatest QB ever, ahn honor Favre is supposedly disqualified for due to “choking” too often in playoffs. Favre actually has a better record (winning percentage) in playoffs than Manning, by a good margin! Even though his record is supposedly suffering from playing too long, not playing well enough in playoffs in the 90s … something which Manning supposedly will also have to deal with, since everyone is taking for granted he will probably break many of Favres records. Huh?
This is not a rant about Peyton Manning. Peyton Manning is a great quarterback, and … yes he may be the best ever. he probably is, overall, better than Favre at least, anyway. He certainly is right now IMO, comparing them at different stages of their career. It’s a rant about moronic fans who act like they only watch highlight films (Maybe they do? Maybe they go to the fridge during the game, so they don’t miss all the “great” commercials?) that think a handful of handpicked plays can define in isolation the overall quality of a quarterbacks play over decades. And then spout on & on about it on internet chat-boards, instead of … I don’t know, using a little bit of that time to actually watch their games?
The guy in Indy better be careful. One more slip up, and he may find “being Peyton Manning is hard to live up to.” then years from now, he’ll still be putting up winning season after winning season, but all the young punks on the internet will be writing how he’s been washed up since 2006.
Favre actually has a better record (winning percentage) in playoffs than Manning, by a good margin!
Manning’s record is 9-9 in the playoffs and Favre’s is 13-11. Is that really a good margin?
I agree with the rest of your post though. Its a product of the media. You can’t tell me that if the Vikings had won the NFC Championship game that the media wouldn’t have painted the Super Bowl as the game that determines “once and for all” who the best QB of all time is? Manning vs. Favre. The winner is the greatest QB that has ever walked the planet and the loser is nothing more than a choke artist who is only good when the games don’t count. Neither argument makes sense. They both are easily top 10 all time, imo, and have to be considered strongly for top 5 all time. One game doesn’t make that much difference except in this 24hour news cycle world we live in.
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
Manning’s record is 9-9 in the playoffs and Favre’s is 13-11. Is that really a good margin?
Of course not. Because Aaron Rodgers is 0-1 in playoffs, and everyone knows he is better than Favre. So 0-1 is comparable, I suppose 9-9 has to be too.
by puddnhead on Feb 9, 2010 9:45 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
p.s.
leave it to you to zero in on one subjective, relative adjective I chose in my lengthy post, and not comment on every thing of substance. So, do you implicitly accept all the rest.
by puddnhead on Feb 9, 2010 9:49 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with the rest of your post though.
Was this not clear enough for you? I think any discussion of a “THE best of all time QB” is kinda ridiculous but like I said, both Favre and Manning are in the top 10 and could make strong cases for the top 5. Favre’s case is stronger imo than Manning’s at this point. Favre had a magnificent season this year, better than I ever would have guessed, but again he showed that he has a tough time putting together back to back error free games in the playoffs. He hasn’t done it since the ‘97 season. Does that mean he isn’t a great QB? Absolutely not. But it does mean that he should be judged on his performance in those big games and not given a free pass, the same way that Manning should be judged and Brady should be judged and Big Ben and Brees and Rivers and anyone else someone wants to include in these discussions. That’s why Favre gets the backlash from people online that he does, because no one in the mainstream media faults him at all when he makes those mistakes. Manning has a similar kind of backlash, it just isn’t as widespread as Favre’s is now. Some people are considered untouchable by the media. Everyone still thinks of Brady as being “clutch” and conveniently forgets that his Patriots had a 21-3 lead at Indy in the AFC Title game in 2006 and blew the lead. No mention of the pick Brady threw that essentially ended the game. No mention of the Super Bowl loss to the Giants. None of that matters cause he’s a “made” guy, similar to Favre.
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
That’s why Favre gets the backlash from people online that he does, because no one in the mainstream media faults him at all when he makes those mistakes
Puh-lease googel “Favre choke” or “Favre lost the game” or whatever on google news and tell me how many bazillion hits your get from establish media sources, over how many years.
It’s gotten to the point that this is ALL you hear about Favre any more, is how he “choked,” or how — throughout the season — maybe he hasn’t choked much this season, but you just know he is gonna “choke.” He had, I understand, one of the best TD/INT ratios of any modern quarterbacking season this year, yet the context you would always hear about it in was how “uncharacteristic” it was. In the pregame reporting for the NFC championship game, you heard that over and over and over … any time you heard anyone sounding like they favored the vikings, it always seemed to end with ’as long as Brett does not revert to his old ways."
This idea that NO ONE talks about this is not only wrong, it is ONE HUNDRED EIGHTY DEGREES wrong. That’s ALL they talk about. Yes, even more than “he’s having fun” and he’s “like a kid.”
by puddnhead on Feb 9, 2010 2:15 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I think...
Some of us have our own fan-base goggles on.
Are you trying to tell me that the fan base of the Cowboys do not think Romo choked? This year and previous years?
What about Tom Brady this year? He had several turnovers with the Ravens
Agreed
Everyone defends their own. It’s totally understandable. I did for years with Favre. I don’t think Rodgers choked in the Cardinals game, I think he made some bad decisions in the game but I wouldn’t classify it as choking. I really don’t think many football players “choke”, and yes, I include Favre. That last pass in the Saints game was not a choke. It was a bad decision. The only one I would classify as a “choke” from this year would be Kaeding for SD. In the flow of a play I don’t think it’s possible to necessarily choke, just to make a bad decision. To choke I think it needs to be a more mental thing (mainly in regards to preparation) than a physical thing. A brain fart (like Favre has had in the past, as have Brady, Manning, Romo, etc) is different in my mind than having the time to prepare for a kick and clearly letting the pressure get to you and missing the kick by a mile.
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
Just for kicks I did
Favre choke- returned 2,890,000 results including this beauty. Before he signed with the Vikes of course
Favre chokes again- returned 410,000 results
Favre like a kid out there- returned 3,230,000 results
Of course the media is gonna mention Brett returning to his old ways as his downfall. That’s what history is there for. To help us learn from the past. If the media is always chomping at the bit to chastise Favre when he makes a mistake then why was Tom Jackson not five minutes after the game was over praising Favre for his courage to throw interceptions. You gotta admire that.
Prior to the retirement/un-retirement fiasco how many of those mainstream articles did you read? I remember reading all of the news the day Favre had his first phony retirement and there was ONE guy who was critical of Favre’s game, Sal Paolantonio, and he was roundly blasted for besmirching the name of Lord Favre. After all of the drama people got a little tired of the hullabaloo and began to react against it. Some of them probably did it for selfish reasons cause they were burned on a story by Favre when “changed his mind” again after what they reported got a negative reaction (i.e. Favre’s trade demand after Moss signed with the Patriots) but to claim that people have been consistently calling him a choker for years is just not true.
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
Nice link under "this beauty"
Funny reading the comments. Every commenter (and this was written before Favre joined the Vikings) was basically bashing the article, and backing Favre.
Take that back, there was one commenter that was critical of Favre, and he goes by the name…….Bart Starr….Hmmmmm wonder if that’s a Lions fan causing trouble.
Yes typical verno.
He’s must be getting bored over at ACME to come here so often. I would get bored as well……I think they only have 10-15 members over there. :D
Surprise!
It’s a rant about moronic fans who act like they only watch highlight films (Maybe they do?
Um. What do you think the NFL Red Zone coverage is all about? They created it so that people don’t have to watch all the boring details of the game in progress, they can go straight to the exciting parts. And since there’s not enough of those to last for 6 hours on game day, they show you the red zone coverage from all over the league.
Brilliant strategy by the NFL. Are you honestly surprised at the result?
BTW, I loathe the NFL Red Zone crap, I’d rather watch the latest footage of a mama cheetah bringing down yet another limping gazelle to feed her adorable kits :)
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
"being Peyton Manning is hard to live up to."
If Peyton Manning referred to himself in the third person (ever) you might have something there.
I agree with most of your points. I am obviously biased. I also used to be a Favre fan. And his playing with the Vikings had nothing to do with my change of heart. I actually like the Vikings, and it would be nice to see not see Favre anymore. It’s really too bad that Jackson didn’t work out for you guys. You have a great defense, a great team…if only AP would learn to hold onto the ball. Even with my extreme dislike for BF, I’d still blame your guys’ loss on AP and 12 men in the huddle.
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Feb 16, 2010 3:47 PM CST up reply actions
I'm just glad we ,as Vike Fans, had the opportunity to witness a season
where our Qb was as good as Manning and Brees. It shows the fans what we have been missing and what we need for our future. Strong arm, strong willed, accurate Qb with experience. Draft it and train him, keep nurturing him, or find another old one. I don’t care. Just keep one as our starter.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 9, 2010 9:16 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
We must keep in contact through a post on Feb 27 to see what the front office
thinks of T-J. You feel he should be let go through free agency. I think we should reward him to stay with us (much like mediceball). Can’t wait to see what chilly thinks.
Skol
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
I know man and I respect your opinion
Even if it’s wrong! :D
Seriously though TJ can stay on the team as a second or third string QB, but I don’t think the talks about him being the starter deserve much merit.
I know you don't I'm just not sure I agree.
Here is my simple reason. We payed Rosenfel a lot of money to come to camp and compete for the starting role. Sage is very good. Strong Arm, years of experience, ect. He was our new Gus Ferrotte.
He couldn’t beat out T-Jack for the position. So either they both stink or T-Jack is much better than you think. I’m anxiously awaiting February 26, 2010.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 9, 2010 12:11 PM CST up reply actions
Or they had Favre and thought it would help TJ's trade value.
If they do trade TJ I will be willing to beleive that they were smart enough to realize sticking him at #2 would be a smart idea. Rose also didn’t know the system so I can see that being a detraction. But honestly this being TJ’s last year and having Favre on the team I can completely see why they would do this.
Now I could be wrong TJ could have done very well in practice. But that’s not my problem with him. It’s the games where he has problems. That’s where I worry, Childress dumbing down calls, TJ jumping around, running away from phantom pressure, I could really go on. Hopefully this is the year that he turns all that around and figures it out.
i'm with lifelongvike on this one.
sorry grime, but i guess i have to see what mister jackson has gleaned from favre. there are A LOT of things one can learn from and older and wiser person. i guess i’d say that one would be surprised what the could take away from someone that’s been around the block a time or two. until we have actually seen what he can do in a game that matters, where he is not in a backup/mopup role, i would reserve judgement. not to say that i am defending jackson, as i really know nothing of what he can do at this point, but neither do you. until we see that he is worthless, and has absolutely no capacity to improve, which is slightly shortsighted, we cannot possibly judge him. provided that favre returns for another year, and also provided that we draft a QB that we can develop until after favre leaves, we don’t really have a choice, do we? we cannot rely on someone like donovan mcnabb or another stopgap measure, given the fact that the window we have to win the big game is closing in a hurry.
I piss people off on a fairly regular basis. I cherish my right to speak my mind, whether I sound like an uneducated savage or not. I've never been accused of keeping what I think a secret, nor will I ever. Don't like it? I don't care.
by IABerserker1 on Feb 9, 2010 11:58 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know judging someone by his past actions seems pretty reasonable
But I understand what your getting at. I just hope if Childress does play him he doesn’t do it half assed like he did last time. If’ he’s going to play hold him to the fire.
Rosenfels
The guy kinda scares me. I originally thought he was a great acquisition, but he’s spent the entire year on IR, not a single snap, not even in ‘garbage time’. I don’t see where it makes sense to pay big money to a guy to provide moral support, cheerleaders make less than $10,000 a year!
Even when he was in top form, Rosey suffered from poor judgement. Scary business.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Not to be rude
But IR means injured reserve, which Rosencopter was not on. He was the 3rd stringer and was on the active roster all year, except the NFCCG where we needed more bodies on D. He played in a simular WCO for 8 years before coming here and could not beat out a two year player from a small college. He scares me as well because he is a “turnover waiting to happen.” We should trade him for whatever we can get.
Have to disagree on Rosey's 2009 status
I don’t know exactly how many games he was on IR for, but during the regular season, game after game, Rosey was listed on IR and he was on the sideline, suited up, but carrying a clipboard. They said that if Favre AND T-Jack were both so badly injured that they couldn’t play at all, Rosey could be brought in, but otherwise, no. Hence, he got zero playing time this past year. Rosey has zero stats, and no rating for 2009 because of it.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
IR is not inactive
Rosenfels was never on “IR” or injured reserve in 2009. He was always the 3rd quarterback, for every game. That meant he was inactive but he suited up for each game and could have come in the game.
by medicineball on Feb 12, 2010 3:38 PM CST up reply actions
MB, you might be right. Maybe what I heard the announcers say, and what I read on-line, was wrong, and he wasn’t on IR at all, all year long.
But that is what I heard said by announcers, and it is what I read on-line.
That’s as much as I can vouch for, bud.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Something to think about..
I don’t think that T. Jack will be starting anywhere else as a 1st string QB. His best shot to be a future starter is to hope to sit behind Favre for one more year. If the Vikings release him, I would guess that would be for a potential new free agent and hoping to draft a new QB come draft-time. I doubt we would see anyone taking any first round picks on a QB though.
I will say this
If we pick up another QB any time soon I hope next time we judge him on brains. I’m looking for a QB that is overweight, dyslexic and has eleven toes. But who is smart as a whip and can make quick decisions.
There are many like that. Pike, Robinson, McCoy,ect.
But I would like them to have a srtong arm and really accurate throws with good mechanics also. Having pro-offense experience makes them look smarter quicker also.
Just a thought but if we had traded up for Sanchez last year and he had started for us. And he had as bad as stats as he put up do you think the Viking fans would be asking to ditch him?
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
Not sure, I can state that the first year means next to nothing.
Unless he’s been sitting in the wings for a while. And I do understand where your coming from with the thousand throws in the NFL to get your street cred. Jackson has about half of that, and I really wish Gus had not been brought in last year. The topsy turvy Childress isn’t helping TJ out at all. I don’t care if a QB comes to you and says he’s nervous out there it’s your job as a coach to make sure he beleives in himself enough to put out his best effort then you can make an informed decission. I used to coach an offensive line and people need different things to motivate them, some you need to be an a-hole and ride them, others you have to cajole, and then there are a myriad other ways to get through to soemone, but what you always have to have is respect for them even if they don’t have it themselves. I think Childres failed TJ in that regard.
We all b-tch about players coming out of college and making millions and they should step up. But do you really remeber when you were 21 and had millions of dollars riding on you with millions of fans waiting for you to either excell or fail? Man that must be a crusher.
Dude, Totally dude.
If someone had handed me a ton of money when I was 22 I would have been so stupid with it. I would have had a swelled head, a group of people that were not my true friends, no money when I was 23, and an Ego larger than I have now. Oh wait. That’s impossible.
Your point is well taken. I can’t speak to Chilly’s coaching but I know managing people. And your way is absolutely correct. Maybe he failed with TJ. Maybe not. You can be a good manager but the employees don’t always work out.
I just think that some fans would be calling for Sanchez head if he was on this team. Fans want perfection. So do I, but I don’t really expect it.
I have said this before. Rick Spielman has Never Ever, even in Miami, selected a good QB for his team. So far TJ has not worked out either. I recognize this limitation and hope, pray, and beg that the TJ decision was not in vain. But if it was then lets just move on.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
Nail square on the head
Compare Alex Smith to Aaron Rodgers. Alex got tossed to the wolves and Aaron got to watch Favre play for 3 years.
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