So What Do the Vikings Need, Really?
by Christopher Gates on Mar 14, 2010 4:59 PM CDT
in Minnesota Vikings
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PrintToday is NCAA basketball's Selection Sunday, and as a result I think I've heard the word "bubble" used on various sports radio and television programs at the rate of about 206 times per minute for the last few days. Lots of talk about who will make it into the field of 65 and be a part of what might be the best two weeks in sports anywhere. This got me to thinking. . .with the Vikings looking to upgrade and add parts and all that good stuff, how many roster spots are there actually available on the Minnesota roster, and who is in danger of potentially losing their job.
See, when you have a team that's as largely veteran as the Vikings are, there simply isn't enough room for a bunch of free agents and draft picks and things of that nature. In fact, the Vikings could potentially return all 22 of their starters from last season, dependent upon a couple of factors:
-Will Brett Favre be back for 2010? (I just throw that out there to humor the naysayers. . .we've already established he's totally coming back.)
-Are the Saints or Eagles potentially going to sign Ray Edwards away and give the Vikings their first-round pick?
-How will E.J. Henderson rebound from the awful leg injury he suffered in Arizona in 2009?
-Will Cedric Griffin recover from his torn ACL by the time the season starts?
The most potentially devastating loss would be Ray Edwards, particularly if he's going to play in 2009 like the Ray Edwards we saw against the Cowboys in the divisional playoffs. Everything finally clicked for Ray at the end of last year, and he finally started to play like a guy who was constantly getting single-blocked on a line with three other All-Pro caliber defensive linemen. There don't appear to be that many guys in this year's draft that could potentially step into Ray Ray's spot and produce if he should find himself in New Orleans or Philadelphia next season.
The Griffin and Henderson injuries don't worry me quite as much as they probably should, largely because of the experience that their potential replacements gained as a result last year. Benny Sapp and Asher Allen got extensive time when Antoine Winfield was out with an injury last year, and that should prove invaluable for them both should either of them have to step in for Griffin if Cedric isn't ready for the start of the season. On top of that, the secondary was probably going to be a focus early in the draft for the Vikings anyway, so if Griffin isn't available to start the season, we'll see a lot of Sapp, Allen, and another youngster on the field for the Vikings.
Concerning Henderson, I thought that Jasper Brinkley did a pretty decent job last year for the Vikings, given the situation he was thrown into. He wound up starting the final four games of the season for Minnesota, and while he had his struggles last season at times, the defense didn't experience that much drop-off when he was in the middle. Should E.J. need extra time to get himself ready, or if he's going to miss all of 2010, the Vikings should be fine at middle linebacker.
What might get a little interesting is the potential game of quarterback roulette that the Vikings might end up playing after Favre announces his return. I personally think there's a pretty good chance that the Vikings are going to use a pick in the first three rounds of this year's draft on a quarterback. . .not their first pick or anything, barring Sam Bradford, to use an old political phrase, getting caught with either a dead girl or a live boy in his bed between now and draft day. . .but likely their second or third-round selection. Since there's no way the Vikings are going to carry four quarterbacks, the decision would likely have to come down to whether it was thyme to move Sage (see what I did there), or if the Vikings want to potentially continue the Tarvaris Jackson Experience for another year.
And I haven't even touched on whether or not LaDainian Tomlinson is going to be a Viking next year as the third-down back or anything like that, because he's apparently still deciding between us and the New York Jets. But if he does, that's just one less roster spot for another free agent or a potential draftee to get their hands on.
So, if I were running the Minnesota Vikings, where would I be focusing our draft at? Well, the first three picks would probably go something like this. . .
Round 1, #30 - This would have to be a secondary player of some sort. This is the dilemma I faced in the live mock draft last weekend, where I could have taken either Boise State CB Kyle Wilson or Texas S Earl Thomas (or UCLA DT Brian Price, I suppose, but like I said, I was focusing on the secondary). I opted for the CB, even though our safety play last year was atrocious. I think Tyrell Johnson stepped it up a bit towards the end of last year, and I do like what we have in Jamarca Sanford as well. . .and, hey, can Madieu Williams actually get worse than what he was last year? It would be hard for me to believe that he could. But a pick spent on either of the secondary positions at the end of Round One would be a good pick, in my opinion.
Round 2, #62 - This is where I think I'd pull the trigger on a potential quarterback of the future, and there are going to be some pretty good guys to be had here. I really like Tony Pike out of Cincinnati, but there will be some other guys with great potential here as well, such as West Virginia's Jarrett Brown, Central Michigan's Dan LeFevour. . .oh, and some kid that played at Florida. T-Bone or something like that. Seriously, if the Vikings took Tim Tebow at the bottom of the second round, I wouldn't be even a little bit disappointed. . .and I'll explain why in an article later this week.
Round 3, #93 - This pick could potentially go to a couple of different places. . .if we don't end up with LaDainian Tomlinson, it could go to a potential third down-type of running back (USC's Joe McKnight, Montario Hardesty out of Tennessee), another defensive back, or potentially to a center like Boston College's Matt Tennant if the coaches decide that John Sullivan needs to be upgraded. I think Sullivan will get better, though, after getting a year of starting experience under his belt, so assuming we don't get LT2, I would probably focus on one of the aforementioned running backs in this situation.
What do you guys think? Discuss it here, and enjoy the rest of your Selection Sunday!
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on the matter of t-bone
i would love if we pick him up at the bottom of the second but i don’t think that he will last that long. Similar to our mock draft, i think tebow will go earlier than expected. I guarantee you somebody is going to take a chance on him before the 15th pick of the second round. Thats just a guess (but if i’m right than that was official)
Te-bow! Te-bow!
I agree about the secondary being the biggest need going into the draft, but the Vikes have been pretty consistent lately about going best player available, and they’ve had a lot of success in the last few years doing that. I’m so not a draft guru, but that late in the first round, it’s really arbitrary as to who the best player available is, and it will be interesting to see who the Vikings value that late in round 1. I can see the Vikings going in a couple different directions, and if Tebow is on the board, and the Vikes think he’s their QB of the future, I can see them drafting him.
Personally, I think he goes in the top half of round one, and we’ll have a ‘holy crap!’ moment in the real draft like we did in our mock.
"We're used to Favre-a-palooza now. We're engulfed in Favre-a-palooza. It's not even Favre-a-palooza anymore. He's family now."
--Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe, on Brett Favre
notes
The two biggest immediate needs are cornerback and guard. Everything else is a not an immediate need.
With the deep draft this year, the Vikings do not need to make a reach pick in the first round for a cornerback or guard. We will be better off taking the BPA.
Kyle Wilson does not fit the Vikings. He is not physical and is gun-shy in taking on blocks and tackling ball-carriers. We use zone coverage, and Wilson’s strength is man coverage. Wilson is only worthwhile in the second (perhaps) or third round, and he won’t fall that far. Scratch him off the Vikings’ radar.
At quarterback, guys like Pike and Colt McCoy have fragility concerns. In this deep draft, we can get players who can start right away, or play a lot, in the early rounds. We don’t need a soft-armed, fragile Pike or McCoy. We’re better off getting a quarterback in the later rounds. In 2011, we can look at the draft and free agency if necessary.
See, guard doesn't concern me as much
Because I don’t think Herrera is that bad, honestly. I think that last year he was playing between two first-year starters and fell victim to trying to overcompensate for that at times, particularly in trying to help Sullivan.
If we’re going to look to change someone on the O-line, I’d be more tempted to grab a center than a guard.
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by Christopher Gates on Mar 14, 2010 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Maurkrice Pouncey has been mocked to the Vikings in the first round in various mocks.
He could be the guy. I like John Jerry better myself because he can play guard and tackle and is very very strong at the POA. We need someone like that especially if Detroit gets Suh.
The thing with Herrera is not that he is not good but he will turn 30 in June and the depth on the line is not starting caliber. The Vikings are in a very nice position this year in that the guys they draft do not really HAVE to start. They can if they are good enough but most likely they will get some snaps as needed. So if we draft a guy like Iupati or Jerry or even Pouncey they most likely will not start but will be ready to play in 2011 or the year after.
So if we got Iupati he does not even have to play. He can sit the bench for two years learning the offense. Then in 2 years when Hutch will be 34 he could be ready to take over and he will be an excellent insurance policy in the meantime. He may be able to play on the right side sooner but I believe he is best suited for the left guard spot.
Great post, Mark.
Just to back you up a little, at center we are stacked with John Sullivan, Jon Cooper, and Ryan Cook. If we draft a center prospect like Pouncey (who would be great in the 1st round), Matt Tennant, or J.D. Walton, he might help the team the most by moving to guard.
Herrera will be challenged for his starting job, but he might end up keeping it. We’ll see. I’m cheering for Herrera, and at the same time hoping we draft an interior lineman for depth.
by medicineball on Mar 14, 2010 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I see a need for a Guard/Tackle
Gonzo makes an excellent point about Herrera being affected by playing next to two first year starters, and I think that spot is OK. However, the rest of the Norris just got a lot better at rushing the passer this offseason (watch the Panthers game from last year to see what those dominant DEs can do to us), and I feel like we could use an upgrade at talent along the line.
The Vikes have plenty of depth and guys that can play cappable minutes, but Hutch isn’t getting any younger and Loadholtd can’t block speed guys very effectively, yet. Not to mention that I have concerns about McKinney’s occasional lack of focus and potential year long suspension. I think you can’t have enough talent along the line and we could use someone to help along the right side now, and eventually take over for Hutch or McKinney.
Agree with the need for Guard
I would like to see a guard drafted early to either replace Herrera this year or provide depth behind him and Hutch as they are both gettin older. Also Mckinnie is inconsistent but I don’t think he’s in any danger of a suspension unless he hits somebody with a street sign again in the near future.
by CanadianViking on Mar 19, 2010 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't see guard as a need over DT
Herrera had one bad year and everyone is ready to dump him. Pat Williams is probably going to play one more year, and him and Kevin WIlliams could be facing a suspension. I think DT is a bigger need than G, and the there’s a lot of DT’s that are supposed to be pretty good. I can see them going DT in round 1 if not CB, but G would be surprising. At least for me.
"We're used to Favre-a-palooza now. We're engulfed in Favre-a-palooza. It's not even Favre-a-palooza anymore. He's family now."
--Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe, on Brett Favre
have to disagree
With Kennedy re-signed for two years, he is the leading candidate to take over for Pat Williams, should he retire after the 2010 season.
What we need at DT is to get a little better. We should consider drafting a defensive tackle, but the impact wouldn’t be huge right away.
On the other hand, at guard there is a gaping hole now that Artis Hicks is lost. At the very least, a drafted guard would have an excellent chance to be a reserve on the 53-man roster, and would also have a real shot at starting.
Guard is a much more immediate need than defensive tackle.
by medicineball on Mar 14, 2010 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions
This is a GREAT DT draft.
Although I agree with your point medicineball, we do have a decent backup in Jimmy Kennedy, I think we have to consider a DT if the right one falls to us. DTs have been the anchor of our D since the day P$ stepped on to the field in Purple, and he’s probably only has one year left in the tank.
Without a dominant run stopping force in the middle, our D goes from great to good, and we have to look to next year when we have a mamoth hole on that line. If the right young DT stud falls to us, I think you have to include that position in the subset of BPA (my list is CB-G-DT-QB for the first round).
Interesing that you passed on Earl Thomas for Kyle Wilson
I believe the pick should have been Thomas because of the number or corners in this draft vs the number of safeties. If the two players are almost equal in the grade that a team gives them then I believe they have to look at the positions in later rounds to see what kind of guys they can get later. In this instance, and if it happens in the real draft, I certainly hope that they TOA pulls the trigger on Thomas.
To me that is a no brainer IMHO. Because he is a redshirt sophomore and maybe only 21 he really doesn’t even need to play next year. then in 2011 when Madieu’s salary escalates to 5.4 mil they can try and trade him or release him. They can get a guy like Amari Spievey in round 2.
Personally with the team pretty set at all positions I could see them going in a number of different directions. Some guys I really like and I usually include in all of my mocks (funny how that works – I think) are …
John Jerry – OG/OT (dont be surprised if he is the pick in round 1)
Lamaar Houston – DT
Brandon Ghee – CB
Mike Iupati – G
Kam Chancellor – S
Dekota Watson – LB
Ben Tate – RB
Dennis Pitta – TE
Andrew Quarless – TE
Eric Decker – WR
… the problem is most of these guys are early round guys and we may only get a real shot at 2 or 3 of them IMO.
unless we draft a QB...
We will most definately need our first rounder to play a lot, maybe even start this year.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
No LT.
At midseason will be saying thank goodness a la TJ Housh.
One power slam from Brock and Mir might be dead. He better watch his words. He'll be eating them soon.
My $.02
Needs:
1) More speed/coverage/youth in the second and third levels of the defense. Particularly at cornerback. Strong/middle linebacker, as well, but cornerback is almost a must.
2) O-line help. I’d prefer a strong OT who could also fill in inside. A guy like Vlad Ducasse or Rodger Saffold in round 2 would be great, someone who could immediately fill in the Hicks swingman role and maybe even challenge Herrera or McKinnie.
3) Runningback.They need another one. Everyone seems to think there’s good depth here, but if there’s a run on CB before the Vikes pick, maybe Jahvid Best is a sleeper draft candidate?
Those are the 3 most pressing, IMO. Depth at QB and DT would be nice, too, but you can’t fill everything with one draft.
Nate Triplett and Simoni Edwards
Hey, anybody want to comment on Triplett and Edwards? They both might be good.
Here’s a link about the U of M’s pro day.
1st Round pick
I think that everyone is underestimating the importance of Favre’s decision. Say he totally retires. No more saying yes in the middle of August. I do not like TJ at all. I mean he showed flashes sometimes the past couple of years, but he is just not worthy of being a starter in NFL. I mean unless the coaches see something amazing about him, he is not our QB of the future. I think that we should either grab McCoy with our 1st round pick, or trade up in the 2nd with say the Dolphins at #11 and take Tebow or Pike. I mean there are a lot of other options, but I think that those 3 qb’s habe the best chance to succeed with the vikes. If Favre does come back, take one of those 3 qbs and let him learn from Favre for a year. That would be the best situation for the Vikes, not for just this year, but also the future.
In my opinion, you cannot pass on the best man available. Other than that, my two main concerns (even if we don’t get LT), are:
1.- Pass protection. The fact that good ole Favre got hammered time after time (I don’t know how he made it thru the Saints game), makes it the top priority to buy some protection. We have a lot of “names” in our OL, but that didn’t keep our man safe. And even as good as our team is, without Favre we dont have a chance to make it to the SB. Undoubtedly, I would go for for the best offensive lineman available.
2.- I think that the biggest damage made to our D, was the short passes between LBs and Secondary. Even when EJ played. Many teames picked a lot of yardage doing this, and worst of all, they succeded with these short passes on key plays.
I know there’s a lot of criticism on our secondary, but I don’t really think we did bad covering deep passes (perhaps pass rushing helped, but I don’t think we got burned frequently). I’d go for a middle LB, good at reading passes and a big bonus if he can blitz.
Other concerns: QB. I wouldn’t get one in the early rounds. Why? Time is now. I don’t think we can go far this next season without Favre. Not with TJ, not with Sage, not with the best rookie in the class. If we were building a team, I’d go for a QB, but it’s not the case. All the eggs in the Favre basket! Probably on 2011, we’ll have to rebuild, but now we have to go for it, all the way. This is why I wouldnt draft this year aiming depth, I would draft for immediate impact.
RB, yes I would look for someone to replace Taylor, but I would go for pass protection and a LB first.
I hope my English is OK!
your analysis is good
and so is your English
How am I not myself? How am I not myself?
by thankyouforblaze on Mar 15, 2010 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions
no brainer
no QB in the first five rds. because it would bring expectation. mcnabb is not a concern until 2011. and tavaris is valuable enough not to get a straight release.
damn those jets
there is a hint that the jets may try to move ahead of us and go after a player that the triangle desires. does anyone have the link to our placement in all seven rds. in relation to the jets. aside from this pouncey serves many needs. 1. pass protection is a given. 2. sullivan could compete at guard though the wise gonzo is correct , herrera played between two 1st year starters and with a concussion. 3. the draw back is a OT would need to be found in late rounds also. cook’s tender or most likely trade will play a part. OL & DL and DB’s should dominate the top picks with depth at all but CB it all depends on how the chips fall.
The Jets have already moved ahead of us in every round that they have a draft pick. In the first round, we have pick #30. They have pick #29.
by medicineball on Mar 15, 2010 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Are the Saints or Eagles potentially going to sign Ray Edwards away and give the Vikings their first-round pick?
HELL YES! Ray Edwards is better than anyone they might pick in the draft at #24 or #32! Edwards is just coming into his prime. He knows what the NFL is about. He is a proven and steady (although not spectacular) NFL DE. Draft picks after the first 5 or 10 are not gold. I’d give up my #24 pick for a proven NFL player any day of the week, without hesitation.
This may be true but
the salaries paid to last year’s #24 & #32 & #19 (Falcons are reported to be interested too) were …
Jeremy Maclin #19 – 5 yr 15.5 mil with 9.5 mil guar
Peria Jerry #24 – 5 yr 10.35 mil with 7.55 mil guar
Ziggy Hood #32 – 5 yr 8.7 mil with 6.1 mil guar
… and Edwards will want about 4 yr 28 mil with 13 guar at least IMHO.
So while Edwards is proven and worth the cheddar the other teams still have to consider it.
I am hoping for the Falcons pick at #19 but I think they will want something in return. Edwards is good but not that good.
I would make a deal with Atlanta where we give them Edwards & our 2nd next year for #19.
They may want a pick this year though.
Maybe we trade with Philly and give them Edwards and our 3rd (#93) for #24 & #118.
I do not believe teams will give up a first straight up for Edwards unless it is the Colts or Saints (i.e. a late first round pick). I think we have to get creative if we want that #19 from Atlanta and a 2nd next year is like a 3rd this year (apparently – still not sold on how that works but that is how it is viewed by most accounts).
I expect us to be active next year in free agency so picks next year will not be as important as they are this year. If you consider that we can add youth this year then we can add some veterans next year if needed.
I think Edwards and a 2011 2nd round pick for Atlanta’s #19 pick sounds pretty good in this years draft. I would take it.
There you go again trying to dump Ray Ray
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
It is the TOA that is leaving him out there for another team to make an offer
Not me. I just figure we may as well get something for him now rather than see him walk next year.
If they sign him I will be happy. If they get some picks I can live with it.
What I would hate is if they let him play this year at the 2.5 mil salary and then he does not negotiate next year and goes to another team. I will bet money that they will NOT franchise or transition tag him.
With that logic
Every RFA with a 1st round tender is out there for another team to make an offer. I think youre using the Brandon Marshall model. And while I do believe that Denver is willing to part with Marshall, I don’t believe that’s across the board for every 1st round tender. The Denver-Marshall soap opera is well documented. He’s a headache for denver and they’d love for him to be someone else’s headache for a 1st rounder.
Not the same for Ray Ray. 1st and 3rd tender would overpay for his services.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Ray is not every RFA, he is our RFA
I don’t care what other teams do with their players. That’s on them.
You think that paying Ray 3.1 mil for the 1st & 3rd is over paying him?
Really?
After all this discussion about how valuable he is and how he is an above average DE and how the franchise number for DEs is about 10 mil. And you think he would be over paid at 3.1 mil? Wow!
Here I am posting scenarios about trading him but not because I want him gone. I want to get something for him if they cannot get him signed to a new deal. And you think he is over paid at 3.1 mil.
I guess he is a below average DE then.
I cannot even argue with this because it makes no sense.
For one season, yes
I hope they can sign him to a long term deal which, hopefully is incentive laden. The Vikes FO is widely recognized for structuring contracts that allow them to stay safely under the cap while rewarding their players at the same time.
Whether you care about the other teams or not is irrelevant. I’m just saying that youre logic for Ray would then apply to all RFA’s that were tendered with a 1st round pick. It’s illogical to think that every RFA with a 1st round tender will be moved. In fact, in most cases a 1st round tender usually ensures that the player will stay.
Philly just traded for Trapp so it looks like they are out of the so-called Ray Edwards market.
What doesnt make sense is your assertation that Ray Ray who was given a 1st round tender, will be traded for a second round draft pick.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
I added an extra t and a
assertion
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Vikings Just Don't Get It
If you want to sign a free agent like Tomlinson, then YOU SIGN HIM! You don’t let him leave your place without leaving his signature behind!
Tomlinson is NOT Brett Favre
He knows how to make a decision!
Coffee is for closers.
In LT, though, we weren’t getting a shiny new Lexus. We were getting the car behind door #2. The Jets will find out what that is later on.
by medicineball on Mar 15, 2010 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Square peg, round hole
The Vikings do get it: You don’t throw big bucks and armfuls of roses at a guy who might well wind up feeling miffed because AD gets the spotlight, all the good carries, all the good headlines, and the bigger fan club. Maybe LT goes home and his wife says to him she wants to shop Fifth Avenue, not MOA. If you won’t be happy, please have a great life somewhere else.
This is a backup role we’re talking here. Sidekicks don’t get top billing. LT may learn the hard way that funkly, funky Broadway ain’t all it’s cracked up to be, but he won’t learn that by grumbling about in the dark somewhere near the Boundary Waters.
Just because you actually wed a good looking, six-foot blonde heiress doesn’t guarantee a happy marriage. My second ex would probably concur, if she were still speaking to me.
He'd Know What He Was Getting Into
If Tomlinson signed with the Vikings, he’d know what he was getting into. And, maybe that’s why he didn’t sign, because he still has illusions of being the same running back he was 4 years ago. But, I’m sure the Vikings let him know that he would not be competing for Peterson’s starting job. And, don’t be bitter toward Tomlinson because he chose to sign with someone else. If he had signed with the Vikings, I’m sure you would be praising his decision.
Drafty Thoughts
I think the Vikes will take the BPA in round 1, no matter who it is… but since their pick is down at #30, most of the star-power should be gone and they’re more likely to not have that distracting pressure. So… needs will be more impactual.
Round 1 – OG … Sure, the O-line will probably be better in center and on the right this coming year than it was last year, but ‘probably’ isn’t good enough. The once vaunted Minnesota front line pretty much wilted last year and the effect was that AP was often bottled up, and Favre got the tar knocked out of him. Repeatedly. They need to make sure that neither of those things happen again, and most importantly, they need to reassure Favre that they’ve taken all reasonable measures to ensure it. More, with Hicks gone, there’s not a lot of depth available, someone needs to be brought in regardless. Someone better than Hicks was. So either they draft a hot OG, or they trade that #1 pick for one (is Gaither still available?).
Round 2 – CB … Time to shore up the secondary… this is more interesting, it could be a CB, a Safety, or even a strong pass-prevent MLB to cover the middle. I’m leaning towards a CB due to the uncertainty surrounding Winfield and Griff, but the draft looks fairly deep in quality CBs and this will be 1 of 2 CBs that the Vikes draft.
Round 3 – DT … While it’s great that Jimmy Kennedy resigned, and hopefully we’ll keep Edwards too, I think the Vikings will move to grab a DT in the first 3 rounds. Phat Pat is just about done and may run out of gas midway through the season, they’ll need some extra help here. Next year might see a DT drafted even higher, but for now, this is about as low as they can forecast waiting for help on the D-Line.
If the right QB falls into their hands at any stage, all bets are off. I think that, should that happen, Chilly will roll the dice and grab him, forcing everything else to slide down. :)
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
I strongly disagree...
but since their pick is down at #30, most of the star-power should be gone and they’re more likely to not have that distracting pressure. So… needs will be more impactual.
I have calculated anywhere from 35-47 players worthy of a first round grade. Most of that is on the defensive side of the ball along the defensive line and in the secondary, so pick #30 should turn out just fine for us.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
"Star-power", not football talent
I have calculated anywhere from 35-47 players worthy of a first round grade. Most of that is on the defensive side of the ball along the defensive line and in the secondary, so pick #30 should turn out just fine for us.
That’s why I said, “star-power”, as in, big media-hyped kids. Nationally recognized Names like Bradford, Suh, Clausen, and Tebow. There’s plenty of talent to go around, this is really an amazingly deep draft because of all the kids declaring early to try to avoid the possible down-time next year. And talent can always be found in every round, if the scouts are really good. But I still think most of the celebrity names will likely be gone by #30.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
I actually didn't even count Tebow in that list!
Nor did I count Bruce Cambell or the WR from USC or a few others who you might consider as “star power.”
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
I doubt Tebow will fall as far as #30
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Really? but would you give him a 1st round grade?
He might get scooped up in the 1st round, but I don’t give him a 1st round grade. He cannot start in year 1. First rounders ought to be able to start in year 1, whether you need him to or not is irrelevant.
If he does get drafted before 30, thats good news for us, because that means they passed on someone else that will fall right in our laps!
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Tebow
I think for him, it’s all about potential. He has all the right tools; physical, mental, emotional, leadership, and motivation.
What’s not to like about the most athletic QB the NFL has arguably ever seen (barring, perhaps, Jim Thorpe), this guy can do just about anything out there. Most importantly, he’s willing to turn himself inside out in order to become whatever the NFL wants him to be. That sort of Gumby-like attitude can’t be over-valued and, I think, takes him from being a 3rd round risk, to a 1st round risk. If anyone in the draft has the high potential to be a future superstar, it’s probably Tebow.
His mechanics are the real issue and it’s hard for me to think that a guy who’s right now in the process of throwing 100+ balls a day between now and the draft, with the motivation of Tebow, can’t fix the problem. BTW, everyone loves to dog The Fox about his jump-passes, but if you look at old football games, a lot of QBs do that on roll-outs and scrambles. So does Tebow :)
The question of whether or not he’d be ready to start right away is the biggest issue and risk, mostly dependent on who’s in front of him. If it was, say, the Rams or Lions, and the Lions didn’t have Stafford, I’d say start him. There’s no way he’d start ahead of a Manning or a Favre or a Rodgers.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Okay, I guess I should have been more specific
is he ready to start from day 1 and be successful? I say NO.
While I agree with you that Tebow is a great athlete, there is no way Tebow would even be the most athletic QB in the league right now. Michael Vick is way more athletic. Vince Young is a better athlete. Steve Young was a better athlete.
Just because Tebow ran with reckless abandon in a college system that was designed to spread out the defense to open up the run, doesnt mean he will be able to do the same in the NFL. In fact, he couldn’t even do it against the pro prospects at the senior bowl, when they couldnt even blitz!.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
What Best Player Available really means.
This whole thread is based on the Vikings drafting for need. It is not what the Vikings do. They draft the Best Player Available. Why? Because you end up with a very strong team. Often deep in positions you did not expect. Now, BPA does not mean that you never draft for need. The scouting department should be ranking players or grading players and grouping them. Such as you might have 5 players grouped as the AA+. 5 or 6 grouped as AA, 7 grouped as A+, ect. When it is your turn to draft you look at whose available in the highest group. If you have more than one available you take the one for NEED. Often after the first round the groups become larger and need is more easily filled. This is because it is more difficult to rank lesser talented players.
So don’t be surprised if the Vikes get a highly talented player you did not expect in the first round. Maybe even the second round.
Remember the 2009 draft. Almost all agreed that the biggest Need was the secondary. Vontae Davis was available. Harvin was the pick.. We always draft BPA.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
And when the Vikings did draft for need, we got Troy Williamson.
by medicineball on Mar 15, 2010 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Shame on whoever voted Williamson over Merriman. Actually a curse on those peole!!!
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Mar 15, 2010 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
We also took Michael Bennent
over Reggie Wayne and Drew Brees back in 2001. The same year Robert Smith retired…
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
I doubt they would take Tebow... unless they are stupider than I think they are...
Sounds like a Daunte Culpepper type move to me. Not that Daunte was all bad, but when Green drafted Daunte, we were still on the cusp of a championship team, and Daunte wasn’t going to contribute in his first year.
If we have Brett Favre for one more year, and maybe even if we don’t, we have a window here to win a championship. The priority should be to get a guys that fill holes and can contribute NOW.
Favre is gone after this year, and regardless these opportunities to be a really dominant team tend to vanish rather abruptly. The sole exception is when teams get a true stud QB like Manning or Elway in their prime that have several years to win a championship.
Tebow is a project (at best), won’t contribute now, and won’t help us win a championship NEXT YEAR where we have our best shot.
Skol.
by HammeroftheGods on Mar 15, 2010 12:18 PM CDT reply actions
Draft
First, not getting Tomlinson is no big deal, losing Chester Taylor was, but thats water under the bridge. I think Dan LeFevour would be a good future choice, much better than what we have.
by Real Viking support on Mar 15, 2010 3:08 PM CDT reply actions
Sign Branden Marshall
He is well worth a first round pick – give him a new 5 year deal – Berrian could then be the number 4 reciever – There are stories now coming out in NY that Brett was on the phone to try to convince LT to sign with the vikes – meaning he is trying to recruit one last piece of the puzzle to put us over the top – you sign Marshall and Brett will have the most amazing offense ever at his fingertips – Brett loves Rice Harvin and Peterson – adding Marshall to the mix might force Brett to have so much fun he’ll play for two or three more years with a couple super bowl wins to put the icing on his career cake – SIGN MARSHALL – look how well giving up a first turned out with Jared Allen!!!
Randy Moss
’nuf said.
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Mar 15, 2010 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Draft
I don’t see us picking DT. We have been grooming Evans and Guion along with Kennedy so there is plenty of depth. Pouncey from Florida is a good choice in round 1 if he is still there. He can play guard and center and I’m not sure they are that happy with Herrera or the undersized kid from ND. Cornerback if Pouncey is gone. The Vikings are one of very few teams deep enough to take a chance on Tebow. If Tebow is available in the second round they roll the dice and go get him. He is a winner and a football player that’s all they need to know. In two years they look like geniuses. Just like Moss, Peterson and Harvin the guy that fell out of favor and into our laps. 3rd pick goes to OL or Corner whichever one was was not filled in the first round. The rest of the picks go to the best athlete available
My first mock thru 5th
1st—Jared Odrick DT PSU
2nd—Kareem Jackson CB Bama
3rd—Colt McCoy QB Tex
4th—Shawn Lauvao G ASU
5th—Myron Rolle S FSU* or AJ Jefferson CB Fresno St.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
You need to adjust your evaluations
Odrick is probably not a 1st round pick, nor is he really a nose tackle. If we get a DT, they need to be able to replace Pat. He’s a reach there and there will be LOTS of better players on the board at 30. McCoy falling to the 3rd round is pretty unlikely, much less the bottom of the 3rd round. I’d also say that Myron Rolle falling out of the 3rd round would be highly unlikely as well. He’s too gifted mentally and physically and he is too much of a PR dream come true. I’d be shocked to see him in the 4th round but no way he gets to the 5th IMO.
Odrick's stock is rising
While Price’s stock has dropped
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
You could say that about every mock, thats why its called a mock
I know Odrick is not a NT, he’s a classic 3 tech. He could rotate with KWill for a season, then move KWill to NT.
If the jury is still out on McCoy’s shoulder, he very well might fall to the 3rd round. If he does, we should jump on him. I actually wouldn’t mind getting him at 60…
Myron Rolle’s stock is falling. There are several teams that are concerned about his commitment. I think its a raw deal myself, but it is what it is. Talent wise, Rolle should probably be taken in round 2; and he still might. But that’s why I put an asterisk next to his name and included AJ Jefferson as an alternative.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Odrick
2009 Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year.
2010 Penn St.‘s best draft prospect
4.89 forty at 6’5" 305 lbs
Still think he’s a reach at 30?
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Not to beat a dead horse
But some draft “experts” have Odrick going as high as 12 to Miami. Just about every mock I’ve seen lately has him off the board before 30. He’s regarded as a high character kid that is smart and versitile enough to play any position along the dline and could work for either a 4-3 or 3-4 scheme.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Favre coming back?
ESPN reported that Favre was “heavily involved” in the LT recruiting process. I see this as a positive sign of his return.
Draft
#1-Kyle Hilson, CB, Boise State
#2-Best Player Available
#3-3rd Down RB
John Sullivan was better than expected. No botched snaps, no offsides, no holding calls. Amazing.LoadHolt and he will definitely be better this upcoming season.
Skol Vikings!!
I'm biased...
but Hardesty would be a nice catch as a 3rd down RB. A reliable pass protection guy and really improved his receiving. Tough as nails who battled through injuries early on.
Draft Needs
Even before we drafted AD, I thought the Vikings blocking was under average.
On offense every play starts with your offensive line. It is fair to say, “the offensive line is to a football team, what the ignition system is to your car”. That is to say, “It is what starts everything else in motion”,.
If the ignition or offensive line fails, it will cause other things to fail along the way,. A false start for example, will shut it all down right now. Doesn’t make any difference who is at runningback, or WR, or even QB, the play is dead before it ever gets stated.
Poor or missed blocks also cause failure. It doesn’t matter if it is a pass play or a running play, a missed block is always costly. Ask Fravre how costly it was durung the New Orleans game. Ask Peterson how costly it is on the running game.
The weakest link on the Vikings Offense, is their offensive line. And it has been for at least 5 years.
Draft at least 3 good offensive linemen, and then watch what happens next,……
D-E-F-E-N-S-E
In 2009 the Vikings scored a lot of points. So it would seem that they should focus on Defense in the draft, not 3 Offensive Lineman. I do agree that we need to do something to replace Hicks and Chester Taylor, but our defense has lost E.J. Henderson and Cedric Griffin to serious injuries. I would assume they will not be the same players when they come back in 2010.
by WINTWINS2009 on Mar 18, 2010 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
How can you say that...
We had little drop off when Jasper took over? Our sure handed tackling from our linebackers turned into grasping air, they seemed out of position, especially Jasper, and the dink and dunk passes were tearing us up. We were not the same with Jasper on the field. He has upside, and I don’t think he was the worst MLB in the NFL, but he sure needs to show a great improvement over last year if I’m to be comfortable with him covering for EJ should his leg not be healed. As for the draft, here is my idea:
Round 1: If still available, as it has been rumored to be, send this pick and a future second or third to the raiders for Nnamdi Asomugha. In an uncapped year, if Zygi is really willing to spend some money, this is the guy you want. A very good corner to play across from Cedric when he returns, and allowing Antoine to play nickle like he did the end of the year successfully, or pushing him to safety, where Madeu had some issues last year. Imagine that secondary…Asomugha Winfield Johnson and Griffin, with Sapp in the Nickle. That’s a recipe for disaster to opposing QBs.
Round 2: We address either QB, or RB depending on if Tebow drops this far, or if a solid running back is available. Also, if there is no one we like, OL would be a good choice.
Round 3: I would like OL or LB to be met here. Depending on what happens in Round 2. If we take an OL in round 2 and what’s available would be a stretch, check the DT depth, as well as possible running backs.
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