Minnesota Vikings Draft: Are We Not Men? We Are Tebow!
by Christopher Gates on Mar 20, 2010 4:22 PM CDT
in Minnesota Vikings
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PrintIn most years leading up to the NFL Draft, there are a few players that are the subject of a little bit of controversy about their draft status. Usually it's concerning a guy that didn't have a whole lot of production in his college career, but put together an amazing off-season or Combine or Pro Day and is now rocketing up the draft boards because they "look like a football player." (See also: Darrius Heyward-Bey, Troy Williamson, and a host of others). But this year, we have quite the opposite problem, and it's a controversy that the Minnesota Vikings could potentially find themselves right in the middle of.
Honestly, you'd have to be a fool of a pretty significant order to deny Tim Tebow's college production. He was a part of two national championship teams, won a Heisman Trophy, the only sophomore ever to do so (and was a finalist two other times), two Maxwell Awards (one of only two people to win it twice), and was the first player in NCAA history to produce at least 20 passing touchdowns AND 20 rushing touchdowns in the same season when he did it in 2007. I'd list his SEC and University of Florida records, but hey. . .I have to think of SBNation's bandwidth here.
But, as we all know, none of that means a darn thing at the next level. The road to NFL stardom is littered with guys that were great in college and terrible in the pros. And after the practices in Mobile for the Senior Bowl, as well as the actual Senior Bowl itself, many folks were wondering out loud if Tebow was worth drafting in the first three rounds of this year's selection meeting, or if he'd have to switch positions at the next level to being an H-back or a tight end or something along those lines. Even after his Pro Day in Gainesville, there is still a lot of fluctuation as to where the man that was, arguably, the greatest quarterback in college football history will be drafted.
To be honest, I wouldn't be sad at all to see the Vikings draft Tim Tebow. . .and here's why.
The Vikings are in sort of a strange position in this year's draft as far as what they need, how the draft boards are stacking up at those positions of need, and how many roster spots they actually have available to them. As I detailed the other day, there probably aren't a lot of spots that are actually open on the Vikings' roster, dependent upon how people recover from injuries and things of that nature. But one of the spots that should be open is one for a long-term solution at quarterback. With Brett Favre coming back in 2010. . .and he IS totally coming back, if you haven't heard us mention it already. . .there needs to be something better than Sage Rosenfels or Tarvaris Jackson in the wings for 2011 and beyond.
Now, we've heard the myriad of problems with Tebow ad nauseum over the course of the past couple of months. His release is too slow, he's not accurate enough, he can't read defenses, he didn't play in a pro-style offense. . .on and on and on. And I'll admit that as of this very moment on 20 March 2010, all of those things are true. And if we were expecting Tebow to step into the Vikings' offense and be the starter and take us to the promised land right away, then those things would be serious issues.
But we wouldn't be.
Even IF we don't have Brett Favre in 2010. . .and did I mention that he's totally coming back? Because he is, but anyway. . .Tebow still wouldn't be more than the third-string quarterback in 2010. Heck, he might not be active for a single game all season. And I might come off sounding like an ESPN-bot here or something. . .but all of Tebow's current problems are coachable. Throwing mechanics are coachable, and Tebow has already started correcting his throwing motion, to positive reviews. Footwoork is coachable, reading defenses is coachable, and many of the other negatives we've heard about him to this point fall under that heading as well.
But there are lots of things to like about Tebow that don't need to be coached. First of all, the guy has every intangible that you'd ever want. Yeah, people might want to knock him because he's not afraid to express his religious beliefs. To me, that seems to be the reason why it appears to be "cool" to dislike Tim Tebow. Personally, while I believe in the existence of a higher power, I'm not really what you'd call a "practicing" Christian. But if Tim Tebow believes that firmly in his religion and his faith, who the heck am I to judge that? Seriously? And think about this. . .what are the odds we're going to hear about him being on a boat in the middle of Lake Minnetonka with a bunch of hookers, or snorting lines of blow off of a cheerleader's rear end? I'd have to say that they're relatively low.
Also, the guy is big and fast, having been measured at 6'3", 240 and running a 4.7 40-yard dash. He also put together a 3.5 GPA at Florida, which tells me that he's pretty smart, too. I don't buy into his "low" Wonderlic score of 22 (allegedly, since those things aren't supposed to be released). . .after all, some guy named Dan Marino scored a 13 on his Wonderlic test, and he turned out okay. Heck, 22 is exactly what Brett Favre scored on his Wonderlic, and he seems to have done alright for himself, too. . .he was smart enough to get the heck out of Green Bay, in any event. On top of that, the guy has already shown a willingness to work his butt off and make himself better despite the career he had in college. He's not a diva that's expecting the world of the NFL to be handed to him on a platter or anything. He's also been an outstanding leader throughout his college career, and really has a good head on his shoulders for someone that's accomplished as much as he has to this point in his life.
Now, would I take the Vikings' first round pick, #30 overall, and use it on Tim Tebow? On that front, I can give you a firm. . .I don't know. The Vikings have some other needs, particularly in the secondary and possibly the offensive line, but you'd have to wonder if a guy like Tebow would be around by the time the draft got to #62 overall, which is where the Vikings would select next, barring a trade up for somebody. In my opinion, the only quarterbacks that have shown themselves to be first round picks so far are Sam Bradford and Jimmy Clausen, and the Vikings won't have any shot at either of those two guys. I think Tebow is in the same grouping as guys like Colt McCoy (who I'm not enamored with at all), Tony Pike (who I do like quite a bit), and possibly Jarrett Brown.
But I think that Tim Tebow is definitely worth the Vikings' second-round pick in this year's draft. What do you all think?
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this is hard for me to say but..
i think we should try to grab him, in the third of course. Unless we want to stick the the original tebow (jackson). I truly believe that jackson will be able to take the reigns in a couple of years? Did i just say that?
Jackson
I don’t think this guy has a legitimate shot at starting anywhere else in the NFL, let alone taking the reigns in Minnesota. I had high hopes for him, but he just doesn’t have the mental capacity to be “The Guy”. My $.02.
The Minnesota Vikings - Undefeated in the Playoffs at Lambeau Field!
We simply do not know
The last time Vikings fans saw Jackson get any real playing time was against Philly in the playoffs, over a year ago. While he didn’t look great in that game, there were mitigating factors (it was his first playoff game and he was under almost as much duress in that game as Favre against New Orleans) and he was coming off of some great games down the stretch in that season. But that game left a sour taste in fans mouths, some of whom had been declaring that he had finally turned the corner just weeks earlier.
The assumption that Jackson is not capable of replacing Favre is a bit of a jump in my opinion. He finally got his year on the bench behind a veteran that we promised and never delivered (just sitting next to Favre in film sessions had to help by itself). He looked good in his limited playing time but it was garbage time and not a good barometer. The truth is simply that we do not know what Jackson is or is not capable of at this point. I’m not saying he definitely IS the answer but I have not seen enough to say he definitely is NOT at this point.
Our 2nd round pick is practically a 3rd rounder so if we want him we would need to grab him there. If he was there at all. I think he is too much of a risk to take at #30, especially with the gluttony of talent that will be available at that point in the draft (there are at least 35-40 prospects that are 1st round caliber in this draft and several will fall unexpectedly guaranteed).
True, but that begs the question
If we don’t know, can we roll the dice and hope, with no alternative? I say no, which is why I think Tebow would be a good pick. So would Colt McCoy, for that matter. I think he’s a huge gamble in the top half of the first round, but the #30 pick is almost a second round pick, and with no glaring needs (CB and DT are needs, but they can be addressed in rounds 2-7.
Tebow would be a ‘wow’ pick, but like I said in the Friday rumblings post, I think he’ll be gone by the #20 pick. If the Vikes want him, and I mean REALLY want to draft him, they need to move up and get him.
"We're used to Favre-a-palooza now. We're engulfed in Favre-a-palooza. It's not even Favre-a-palooza anymore. He's family now."
--Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe, on Brett Favre
Increased value of 2nd Round Picks
Something which I heard the yappers talking about on the NFL channel, which made sense for once, is that the new draft format creates a huge window of reconsideration between the rounds which teams will almost certainly make greater use of. Instead of being rushed to make their decisions, they have a night to re-think, wheel and deal, and look for better options not just in terms of BPA and what they need, but also in light of what the division opponents picked in the previous round. The upshot is that the value of the later round picks has increased.
If I were Spielmann & Co, I would get into the mindset that this year, the penalty for doing so well is that the Vikings have lost their 1st round draft pick. Instead, the Vikings have the #1 pick in the second and later rounds, which is what #30 works out as, if you ignore that first round.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Instead, the Vikings have the #1 pick in the second and later rounds, which is what #30 works out as, if you ignore that first round.
So if you ignore the true value of having the 30th overall pick you can draft who ever you want! You don’t have to take the best player, just the player you like the most.
It’s not “like a 2nd round pick” its a chance to get the 30th best overall player in the draft and more likely a guy with talent that should have him in the top 15-20. Don’t debase what the 30th pick could mean to make it easier to accept over drafting a player.
Being Realistic
So if you ignore the true value of having the 30th overall pick you can draft who ever you want! You don’t have to take the best player, just the player you like the most.
The Vikings take the BPA in the 1st round, period. Maybe even in the 2nd round. Whether we agree or disagree with the merits of that, that’s what Spielmann has stated is his philosophy and so far it’s worked out pretty good.
What that has to do with the player one likes, I don’t know. I’ve never heard of “like” being a valid draft criteria over BPA and need. It’s a business, not a social function.
It’s not "like a 2nd round pick" its a chance to get the 30th best overall player in the draft and more likely a guy with talent that should have him in the top 15-20. Don’t debase what the 30th pick could mean to make it easier to accept over drafting a player.
- is almost the worst value pick in the 1st round. The drop from #30 in the 1st round, to #1 in the second round, is all of 3 places. Not a lot to ‘debase’ there. It may give one a warm fuzzy to imagine #30 is a valuable 1st round pick, but the reality is that it’s more valuable when considered a top 2nd rounder.
No matter how the Vikings spend it, it will go for BPA, but on the trading block, it’s not going to carry a whole lot of weight in 1st round considerations. As a pre-emptive pick on the 2nd round draft, it’s gold.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
You’re the one saying the Vikings should treat their pick as if it was a second rounder instead of what it really is, the 30th overall pick. There is a ton of value in that pick. Last year the Titans got the #1 WR with the 30th pick, the Jets got their #1 TE in 2008, The Colts and Patriots have gotten great players at the bottom of the 1st round consistently (Reggie Wayne, Joesph Addai, Logan Mankins) and they weren’t doing it by treating the pick as a second rounder, but as getting the best player available. Here is a list of some other guys taken with the 30-32 picks since 2000: Kieth Bullocks, Todd Heap, Kenndall Simmons, Nnamdi Asomugha, Heath Miller, Mike Patterson, Mathias Kiwanuka, Greg Olsen. All were available at the 30th pick and each has been an all pro or contributed greatly to Super Bowl winning teams. Let other teams consider it to have no value and reach on players they could take in the second round and let good players fall right into the Vikings lap. Every year, teams start reaching in the later half of the 1st and there will be a great talent that falls. Last year the Vikings had a choice between Harvin and Oher and after this year, it looks like they could have done no wrong with who ever they picked because teams ahead of them didn’t pick the value. They convinced themselves there wasn’t any value in the pick and grabbed a position they needed instead and the Vikings reaped the rewards.
By saying you can treat it like a second rounder, you are saying that it isn’t about getting the best player available at 30, but the best player you could get in the second round. A player who wouldn’t be the best, but one that you like the most. Those first sentences after you’re quote is also known as sarcasm.
The #30 pick will always be more valuable than the 31st – 237 picks regardless if it is one pick away from the next pick or 3 rounds before your next pick. Its way more valuable than any second round pick when you consider its the 30th pick out of nearly 300 picks that will take place that week. Instead of staging a “pre-emptive” pick against the 2nd round, the Vikings just take the best player at 30.
It's an illusion
The 30th pick is the 30th pick. The “1st pick in the 2nd round” is 33. The rounds are really an illusion, the only true value in the picks is the overall number. The pick doesn’t gain or lose value if you consider it a 2nd round pick, but it does if you start saying “it’s just a 2nd rounder, we don’t have to draft BPA”. There will be lots of great players available at 30 (I promise, everyone will be surprised that who we pick was there) and it would be foolish for us to ignore that. Tebow is an interesting prospect but he is not worth the 30th overall pick.
If you ignore the first 29 picks and think of it as the 1st pick of the 2nd/3rd
…then it may come with an assumption that more of a project player should be chosen in the 2nd/3rd rather than the best player as a late 1st rounder. See also: Ryan Cook over Marcus McNeil (just to name one T), Cedric Griffin over Richard Marshall or MauJo, Tyrell Johnson over DeSean Jackson. In each of those cases, the Vikings selected raw players with limitations (and/or from less prestigious programs) instead of very talented and skilled players who ranked higher according to Scouts, Inc. and other sources.
I’d prefer they think of it as the 30th overall selection which commands a high enough salary that only the best available player is worth taking.
There will be talent available at 30, no doubt
I am no scout, but all that I’ve read indicates there are closer to 20 first round grades than you have indicated.
Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK
No, with all the juniors in this draft there are over 35 guys with 1st round talent
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
We do know how good TJ is we've seen it for years
And it’s not that good he’s a good athlete but just can’t pull it together to set up as a good QB. Nothing like the coach removing you from the starting job two years running, then putting a third round tender on your butt to make you feel confident. (By the way they usually do such things when the person in question is not a starter)
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Good review and I agree totally
It seems to me that the Vikings have players fall to them all the time.
Tebow is one we should draft if he is there at #30.
He is a football player plain and simple and he gets the job done.
He is the closest thing to Steve Young since Young came out. Will he be as good or is he as good? Probably not but he is damn close.
All the other talk about his problems is just a bunch of baloney.
Just let him play football.
The only other guy I would consider is Taylor Mays who also could fall right into our laps because of all the crap they are saying about him. This kid can play and all you need to do is check out his junior tape and you will see.
Disagree on Mays
He will be snapped up before the #30 pick for sure. His 40 time pretty much sealed it. He’s going to be taken in the top 15 picks.
I wouldn't mind Tebow if for no other reason
than it would mean we’d be taking a positive step and pushing ourselves to succeed in the future. Taking QB’s in the 4th or 5th just isn’t a good idea. Not when you have an immediate need to fill right now.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
There is absolutely no way...
I would piss away the 30th overall pick on Tim Tebow. The kid is athletic, I’ll give him that, but his mechanics are a work in progress, and his arm strength just isn’t there. Does he have the drive to improve? Sure, but how high is his ceiling? I can’t see where it’s that high. He’d have to re-learn just about everything he knows about playing quarterback. At 23 years old, that’s a lot of unlearning, and then relearning to do. We already stretched on a project in T-Jack, that failed in my opinion, why risk it with a first round pick this time? Because the kid wears bible verses on his face? Because he stars in anti-abortion commercials? Frankly his values are good, but he uses his fame as a soapbox to preach them. Like it or not the kid has an agenda, and whether it’s “positive” or “negative”, it could bring drama to the team. Imagine the Atheists who would cry foul if he were permitted to thank god and wear verses day in day out, imagine the Christians if he were forced to remove the bible from his game. There’s going to be an issue, and heartburn anytime he steps behind a mic, and he is bound to do so frequently. Not to mention, he’s not confident enough in himself. He’s planning on potentially skipping out on the draft because he knows he’s going to drop. Would I like him on the team? 2nd or 3rd round at best.
by SouthSotaPop on Mar 28, 2010 2:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Also, don't forget
That Tebow played with Percy and knows him very well. It’s not the only reason I’d draft him, but it sure helps that he’d have pre-existing chemistry with at least one of our WRs. Heck, why not just draft Aaron Hernandez to while we’re at it. Wouldn’t that be cool?
by Jayrome007 on Mar 20, 2010 6:20 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
3rd round or later
Tebow is the first QB prospect about whom I’ve heard all of the following and still receives press as a possible 1st round pick:
- Weak arm
- Not accurate enough
- Release is too slow
- Ideally suited to play FB
Why in the world would that combo = 1st round pick? Rex Grossmann had more going for him at this stage (except for a trophy or two which also have not led to consistent NFL starting QBs), and look how he turned out. Andre Ware was similarly impressive, and look how he turned out.
I’m fine with the Vikings taking Tebow in the 3rd (if RB Tate was selected in the 2nd) or preferably later, but I don’t want to hear about his values playing a role in his selection and I expect him to be at least a serviceable backup if the Vikings spend a pick on him. Unfortunately, the Childress-led Vikes are very likely to select him for his values and time with Harvin and the assumption that they can turn any QB into gold and get something worse than Tarvaris Jackson.
by KC Viking on Mar 20, 2010 6:29 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
This.
I would be quite upset if we took him in the first. I can live with the 3rd, even the 2nd, but using our first overall pick on a guy who is, essentially, a “maybe” when it comes to poetential, is ludicrous.
In AP I trust
F-A-R-V-A =/= F-A-V-R-E
by FarvaForTheVikings on Mar 20, 2010 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions
They’re all maybes. Noone is a sure thing. Don’t forget that. It really is important not to get to hung up on potential, because thats all anyone is at this point.
True.
But would you really argue that Tebow doesn’t have more risk involved than most other players that will be drafted right around the time he is?
In AP I trust
F-A-R-V-A =/= F-A-V-R-E
by FarvaForTheVikings on Mar 22, 2010 12:50 AM CDT up reply actions
good post
I hope we don’t take Tebow early. Childress does not go for quarterbacks with throwing motions he has to fix. I bet Spielman might like Tebow, but Childress will hopefully put his foot down and not take him.
by medicineball on Mar 21, 2010 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I've heard him say that he either buys the throwing motion or not
…and I was shocked to see him bring in Drew Henson soon thereafter.
I wish Childress valued accuracy a lot more.
Tebow has a strong arm
He did throw some 60yard bombs in college. It starts and pretty much ends with his throwing motion. His footwork will get better and isn’t that bad to begin with.
One power slam from Brock and Mir might be dead. He better watch his words. He'll be eating them soon.
by VikesPma on Mar 21, 2010 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sorry but 60 yards isn't very strong by today's NFL standards
Kyle Boller can throw it 60 yards on a knee.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Yoy got me
But I still think Tebow has a strong arm.
One power slam from Brock and Mir might be dead. He better watch his words. He'll be eating them soon.
He probably does have a "strong arm" I wouldnt bet against him in arm wrestling
But his mechanics hinder his velocity on his passes. At his pro day his passes fluttered, even with the new mechanics.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Yeah I'm not sold on taking Tebow. To get him the Vikes would have to use way too early a pick.
McCoy all the way. His mechanics are tight, gets the ball out quick and releases the ball high. He has to for his hight.
One power slam from Brock and Mir might be dead. He better watch his words. He'll be eating them soon.
And McCoy is very accurate
But what I like best about him is that he elevates the play of his teammates.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Morons!
NOBODY elevated the play of his teammates more than Tebow. Who on that Florida offense is even being considered in the first few rounds of any draft…Aaron Hernandez (2-3 rounder is a stretch), Riley Cooper (5th or 6th MAYBE), and Pouncy (a legit first rounder). Tebow (and a tough defense) was the reason the Gators were in the National Championship hunt this year (and the primary reason for the last Championship, and the major player in his Freshman year). Nobody else on that offense is even worth consideration…Don’t start saying that Colt McCoy does a better job in this area…that’s just stupidity!
I will say that I think
Footspeed, arm stength and athleticism are the most overrated attributes when looking at QB prospects.
Some of the best QB’s are not very athletic or fast, i.e. Tom Brady and Peyton Manning.
A quick release, which is part mental and part physical, is way more important IMO.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
And accuracy
I’d like to see the Vikings stock up on weak-armed QBs (enough to throw 30-40 yards in the air is all I care about) who can thread the needle every time, complete 60-70% of their passes at the NFL level, read defenses and recognize a good opportunity to scramble even if they’re not particularly fast.
A quick release is definitely more valuable than arm strength, but I don’t know if it’s worth more than accuracy to me. I can’t believe how undervalued accuracy is.
Oh I agree, I wasn't saying that quick release is THE most important
just more important that arm strength.
But yes, as far as “measurables” are concerned, accuracy is right at the top in my opinion. I also look at hand size and height, and release point; probably in that order.
Not sure if quick release can be measured with a number. I guess you can look at number of sacks and int’s being indicative of release speed…
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Quick release
I think that is probably measured by wind-up time and where the QB’s hand is in the throwing motion at the time that the ball comes out (i.e., slightly behind to slightly in front of the helmet).
I don’t know enough to say whether a quick release is a measurable or a scoutable or what.
Don't want to have small Culpepper hands or
You might fumble more per game than any other QB in history.
One power slam from Brock and Mir might be dead. He better watch his words. He'll be eating them soon.
Concur
I want absolutely no part of Tebow at all. He’s the first quarterback that I’ve ever heard of who they’ve essentially had to teach him how to throw the ball again. McCoy has better accuracy than Tebow, has at least taken a few snaps from under center, and has all the supposed “intangibles” that Tebow has.
If this is the first QB you've ever heard of that needed his arm coached to NFL standards
You havn’t been paying much attention. Tebow gets a lot of extra guff, because his team did so well. The question you have to ask is, was it the coach or Tebow who made it all work? Back to the point, almost all QB’s have throwing motion issues, foot work issues, etc.. College is a much easier game and allows for a lot more mistakes.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
not inspired
Colt McCoy would be a very good draft pick. I just think we can do better. If we draft him, though, I would be pumped. Just a little concerned about his both his durability and leadership. Both could turn out to be fine.
by medicineball on Mar 21, 2010 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions
+1 on Colt!
Heck +10!
One power slam from Brock and Mir might be dead. He better watch his words. He'll be eating them soon.
Bubbles!
Now he should be the QB! But what positions for Julian and Ricky?
I may be old but I... oh d*mn, I forgot what I was going to say.
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Mar 22, 2010 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Give him a pair of glasses
Okay I see it. Julian and Ricky would have to play on the line. QB couldn’t see over Ricky’s hair.
Here is a cold shot for ya, how is big Ben? Still got the clock tower errect?
One power slam from Brock and Mir might be dead. He better watch his words. He'll be eating them soon.
Ben is being Ben
The fans like his football skills but think it is time for him to grow up and settle down a bit.
I may be old but I... oh d*mn, I forgot what I was going to say.
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Mar 23, 2010 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
take him at 30
Can you picture tebow, his second year, first year sit and study favre and everything he says and does.
Now he is a starter, you have AD in the backfield, percy running and end around. do you pitch to AD, pitch to harvin, or do you run or pass. with sidney and shianco as weapons our kick ass offense would be kick ass.
defense cordinators would lose sleep trying to stop this machine.
I do hope he gets used to sitting behind center and pass first, run if its there.
he doesnt need a strong arm in the west coast offense, just acurate.
im hoping he would fall to us
He is a flat out winner, and hard to tackle
I can also then picture him being incredibly inaccurate because he had to relearn how to throw and ending up being a complete bust.
He is a flat out winner, and hard to tackle
Which are no good if he can’t throw.. Thirty is way too high for that much of a project.
In AP I trust
F-A-R-V-A =/= F-A-V-R-E
by FarvaForTheVikings on Mar 20, 2010 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Other great Florida quarterbacks
Steve Spurrier, Danny Wuerffel
by medicineball on Mar 21, 2010 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't forget Gino Toretta ;-p
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
It's win now time
Stregthen the o-line and the secondary now. Go for the pot of gold win the rainbow is shining. If you don’t reach it, at least you can say we gave it our best shot. If not, then it’s rebuilding time.
There's a little beserker in all of us!
Agreed
As much as I personally like Tebow as the long term solution at QB, we are in no position to think of the future. We are in full blown win now mode, as we should be.
He's a high character project
If we drafted him in the third round or later I wouldn’t mind but I would be upset if we picked him any higher. His mechanic’s are worse than T-Jack’s, he’s only got linebacker speed, and his reading of coverages is average at best. People say that his mechanics and reading of coverages is coachable. How long will that take? Most people on this site have written Jackson off after seeing 19 games of gradual improvement. Is anybody going to be patient enough to wait three to four seasons for Tebow to be ready to be our starter?
We’re close to the top right now, and this would be a luxury pick that could be better spent upgrading some of our weaknesses. I don’t understand the love this guy gets. Great college quarterback who most evaluators rate as a third round talent. That’s it. If we’re going to draft a quarterback of the future we would be better served picking Pike, Skelton, or Crompton. Intangibles are great but they don’t replace a skill set that suits the NFL game. Tebow may develop into a good quarterback but it will take time. We already have a more athletic QB prospect on the roster. We don’t need another.
I agree about Tebow. Yes, he could eventually become a decent backup or marginal starter someday, but as you’d said, that’s a luxury pick for a team that really isn’t in the championship race and is ditching their older backup QB(s).
I disagree about Vikings fans being intolerant or impatient of developing QBs.
It’s worth noting that other projects probably outperformed T-Jack in their first 3 years (his 4th year stats are purely garbage time, and if he improved last year, it’s like that proverbial tree falling in that proverbial forest). His last 3 regular season starts were against some of the very worst passing defenses in the league. There is plenty of room for a project QB to do better than T-Jack did by year 2.
Rich Gannon had shown more in his first 12 starts over 19 games. The rating was about the same, but the league has passed numerous rule changes favoring the passing game since then, so Gannon really did a much better job than TJ. In Gannon’s first 19 starts, he posted a higher rating than TJ despite the lack of rules (and defensive philosophies) favoring the pass. Gannon was given 6 years in the NFL before letting him go to WAS, where he was so terrible that nobody wanted him the year after that. Sure, he eventually caught on 2 teams and 7 years later, but the Vikings had enjoyed Pro Bowl and MVP seasons from other QBs in the meantime while Gannon was a backup QB that couldn’t beat out Elvis Grbac.
Then again, nobody needed to be patient about Daunte who turned in one of the 20 best seasons by an NFL QB ever in his second season/1st as a starter. That should be the standard for a 1st round QB. Not his character or values, not how much better he’d play at FB and certainly not a series of ifs.
My comment about patience was a little tongue in cheek. I like Jackson and have always liked him. The general sentiment I get is that most Viking’s fans think he’s progressed as far he can and will always be a backup who shows flashes of quality play. I made the comparison to Tebow because both are considered three to four year projects with athletic talent.
My main defense of Jackson is that he has had 19 starts over four years and was a division 2 quarterback. He wasn’t expected to be a known quantity until last season. The fact that he only played 5 games in his third season and nothing but garbage time last year basically means we don’t know what he is, good or bad. He’s been in the league for four years but he’s got less game experience than most second year QB’s.
I would like to see our team ignore QB in this draft and look for players that can help us win the SB this year. Next year we can go with Jackson, Sage, draft a rookie high, or sign Mcnabb. I like building for the future but I think the future is now and we can rebuild or retool later. So put me in the strongly against Tebow group.
by CanadianViking on Mar 20, 2010 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions
I’m with you about the future being now and putting off rebuilding later.
I also agree with you about TJ for the most part, except you like him more than I do. All I’d meant to say is that the fans have been patient with other QBs, no single franchise could have been patient with Gannon for all of those years, successful drafting of QBs work out earlier like Culpepper did, TJ didn’t even live up to the hype associated with an end of the 2nd round pick, and there is no guarantee for TJ to buck the odds and continue to improve enough to matter.
I kinda focused on just the one example in recent team history. I kinda skipped over your point about being patient with the other QB’s in your last reply, witch I do agree with you about. I just got stuck on a TJ tangent.
by CanadianViking on Mar 21, 2010 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions
“TJ didn’t even live up to the hype associated with an end of the 2nd round pick”………Chilly was reaching when he took TJ in the second. Poor evaluation of the player and took him WAY too early. 4th rounder at best. If he was drafted in the 4th, then what would you think of him?
He should have been the 2nd to 3rd QB for the first 2 years anyway, so he could LEARN. He was a project that was thrust into the game and then used as a scapegoat for Chilly when the Vikes didn’t succeed. Place the blame where it belongs, on the coaching staff.
With no Favre this year (?) I am fine with TJ as the starter. We will finally see what he has to offer with receivers around him. I’m worried about the line though.
Thanks for that in-depth analysis.
In AP I trust
F-A-R-V-A =/= F-A-V-R-E
by FarvaForTheVikings on Mar 21, 2010 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Reality will set in...
Late April. I was totally the NoWay guy on Tebow. I am no longer that guy. Now that it is clear to everyone involved in the process of evaluating and drafting college talent that he is a long term project and a mid round pick at best, all of the commentary on thee guy doesn’t bother me. I know the Vikings aren’t going to waste the 30th pick on such a flier, and likely not their 2nd rounder. I hope it works out for Timmy where ever he lands.
My money is on
Someone is going to get antsy and draft him high because they really want him. I would not be at all surprised to see him come off the board in the 2nd round, and only a little surprised to see him come off in the first. I would be shocked if he made it through the 3rd round though.
I agree with you
If Tebow makes it to the third round I’ll chew a sock.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
I’d rather get booty back rather than tebow that would be cheaper
by Tswing on Mar 20, 2010 9:15 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
moving up in the 2nd is not out of the realm??????????
Florida has 3 or 4 options for us. And remember , Brad went to visit Harvin on the field and had a close look at all the gator prospects. He has been on this since last April. Not many gators line up w/or draft positioning but if one of many fall to us in rd#1 their is a better chance of moving up in rd#2. That ideally would take pressure off the need for instant production. If Spielman wants him in the first I can respect it……………..
third is like saying you dont want him
saying back-up is just as bad!!!!!!!!!!! get some nuggets and not from yor kids meal and take a real stand people. To miss on another top three doesn’t keep us deep in the playoffs. Ask the Patriots!!!!!! They were nowhere last year and who was their last top 2 that went to a pro-bowl. I even happens to the best!!!!!!!!!!!
Last Pro Bowler was actually...
Brandon Merriweather, 2007 draft, was a Pro Bowler this year. Jerod Mayo, 10th overall selection in 2008, was Defensive Rookie of the Year, but hasn’t made a Pro Bowl yet (largely due to an MCL injury that kept him from starting 4 games last year). In 2009 they traded out of the 1st round but made 12 picks overall, including 4 in the 2nd round and 2 in the 3rd (those 6 combined for 17 starts in 2009). The Patriots have been drafting well for years. Logan Mankins was drafted in the 1st round in 2005 and has been to two Pro Bowls. 2004 draft pick Vince Wilfork has been to two Pro Bowls also.
In fact, for a team that consistently drafts in the latter half of each round, the Patriots turn out a surprising number of Pro Bowlers.
He just....
Reminds me of Eric Crouch, circa Nebraska 2001.
I’m not against taking him, for many of the reasons you mentioned. But these QBs come from factory schools and they don’t seem to pan out in the NFL.
Tebow might. I’m not religious at all, and really don’t think God gives two craps about what goes on, on the football field. But he seems to have the determination and drive to succeed, and while I might not be"strong in the faith", with Tim it seems to be genuine and a driving force in his life. That’s a positive, in this day and age of athletes who feel like they are entitled to everything as soon as they get paid. (see Woods, Tiger and a hundred washed out players)
I really don’t want the Vikes to go out of their way to draft Tebow. I think Belicheck will beat everyone to the punch anyway. But if he ended up on our team, I would be interested to see how it pans out.
Let’s face it, we need a QB for the future, regardless of Bretts Plans or Sagevaris Jackenfels.
Problem with Crouch
Problem with Crouch, besides not being as good in college, nor as good of an athlete, nor as many intangibles, was that the Rams drafted him to play WR and he refused. He insisted on playing QB when they told him to be a WR. Because he wouldn’t listen to his coaches he was cut (despite showing some promise as a WR).
He is a lesson to any aspiring NFL player. It is one of the most exclusive professions in the world, you do what your coaches ask. If Tebow doesn’t pan out at QB after a few years, he would make a great TE. And unlike Crouch, he would embrace his new position and work his butt off.
Crouch was a better athlete
He had the speed to return kicks and play WR and S (for the Chiefs one offseason).
Tebow is being considered a project FB…one of the least athletic positions on the field.
Crouch was NOT a better athlete.
Crouch Combine Numbers:
Height: 5’ 11"
Weight: 195
40 dash: 4.47
20 dash: 2.62
10 dash: 1.57
20 shuttle: 4.02
Cone: 6.87
Broad jump: 9’ 4"
Vertical: 36
Tebow Combine Numbers:
Height: 6’ 3"
Weight: 236
40 dash: 4.72
20 dash: 2.66
10 dash: 1.55
20 shuttle: 4.17
Cone: 6.66
Broad jump: 9’ 7"
Vertical: 38.5
Tebow’s numbers compare quite well to Crouch’s. His 40 is slower but his Cone Drill and jumps are much better. It is also important to remember that Tebow has 40 pounds on Crouch. He’s bigger and stronger, without sacrificing any quickness. Not to mention Tebow is projected as a better NFL QB than Crouch was.
Besides the overstatement that FB’s are the “least athletic positions” (Mike Alstott, Lorenzo Neal and Tony Richardson would like a word with you), I have heard very little about Tebow “being considered a project FB”. The most common position, besides QB (which is still the most common), is tight end or H-back. His combine numbers actually would translate very well to TE. But I think a majority of teams right now are interested in trying Tebow at QB for a few years first.
by Cobra312004 on Mar 21, 2010 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Tebow’s #s do not indicate a guy who could return kicks. So what if he can jump higher…that is mostly for evaluating WR, TE, and defensive players, and as irrelevant as his religion in terms of comparing his athleticism to Crouch’s. Crouch was faster with better receiving skills, and that is what gave him the opportunity to play other positions including KR.
Alstott was really more of a freaky RB than a FB. T-Rich was a freak and may have been one of the very best FBs in NFL history. After the 3 you’d mentioned, there are maybe 2-3 others (LeRon McClain, for example) before dropping off a cliff. More than 2/3 of NFL FBs aren’t strong enough to play on the line, are too slow to play RB or WR, and most aren’t able to play TE particularly well, either. Most aren’t mobile enough to play QB even if they had the arm skills. Many RBs could play WR or slotback or FB, and many WRs could play RB or TE, but they would be wasting their athleticism at those other positions.
Basically Crouch was faster
Nobody is projecting Tebow as a potential KR. Most say he can play TE or H-back. Any way, just because someone is faster that does not make them more athletic. Only thing they have in common is NFL scouts dont think they will be any good at QB. Thats about it.
"When you argue correctly, you're never wrong."-Nick Naylor
Crouch was much faster
And probably a better athlete. Remember Crouch played in an under-center, triple option attack. Usually you put your best athlete at the QB position for that offense. He’s the reason that Bobby Newcombe became a slot and KR at Nebraska. Most of you probably never heard of Bobby Newcomb, and Eric Crouch is the reason. Bobby was one of the greatest prep athletes ever in New Mexico, even better than Brian Urlacher. Newcombe holds the NM state record in the 100 meters, qualified to the state meet in 10 different events and won gold in five (thats from his senior year alone); and was one hell of a option QB at Highland High School in Albuquerque.
Tebow was a great college player no doubt. But Urban Meyers offense properly took advantage of his skills and ran with it, pun intented. Florida’s offense spread the defense out and allowed Tebow to run recklessly down field where he usually was able to run over some poor defensive back. Crouch faced stacked defenses every week that were designed to stop him. He had to make reads on the run and make tacklers miss in the open field. If we are simply comparing athleticism, I have to give the advantage to Crouch.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Thats your opinion
But we cleary disagree. I see Crouch’s combine stats, and I see Tebow’s and only thing that stands out is Crouch’s speed. You have to also remember Tebow was probably 2x stronger than Crouch.
Florida’s offense spread the defense out and allowed Tebow to run recklessly down field where he usually was able to run over some poor defensive back.
After this comment I realize you probably didnt watch the Gators play very often because that comment is far from being true. Urban Meyers spread option also calls for 3 or 4 reads once the ball is snapped, and Tebow was contantly the focus of opposing defenses, and he rarely had open space to run with…he made the space on his own with his quickness and strength.
All in all you can argue that Crouch was more athletic, and obviously it all depends on what you consider atheltic. So its really a matter of opinion. But your underestimating Tebow because of what you heard on ESPN, or the little knowlegde you think you know about Urban Meyers offense.
"When you argue correctly, you're never wrong."-Nick Naylor
Lets keep this civil shall we...
Maybe what I wrote about Florida’s offense and how it utilized Tebow’s skill was a bit of an understatement. I usually try not to over analyze things because I don’t want to insult anyones intelligence; in other words I know most of the people on here know their football. I think we’d all appreciate for you to do the same.
Let me preface this discussion by saying that I have defended the spread offense on many occasions. And I have been following Urban Meyer’s version since his days in the Mountain West Conference at Utah. I saw Utah play the lobos every year that Urban was in Utah. I also watch Florida’s games every year. I have seen Meyer speak at football coaches clinic; I understand its principles. I know that on certain plays there are multiple reads; specifically the option plays. I understand that Tebow often used his “strength” to make plays. In fact most of his run plays were called near the goaline.
But lets call a spade a spade. Tebow’s skill set when running with the ball is much more similar to a FB, H-back or TE than it is to a runningback, receiver or returner. It has been widely acknowledged that if Tebow doesn’t make it as a QB in the NFL, he can likely find a niche at TE or H-Back. When Crouch was entering the league on the other hand, many felt that he could play receiver or be used in the return game. Which position(s) typically require more athleticism, returner? Or Tight end?
All in all you can argue that Crouch was more athletic, and obviously it all depends on what you consider atheltic. So its really a matter of opinion.
Now that is something I can agree with.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
I didnt intend to offend you
But
I dont know if you realize this, but down playing the greatest player in our school history to just a FB in a system that allowed him to run untouched until the secondary is the fastest way to make a conversation turn uncivil. I understood your intentions were harmless and so that is why I simply said you probably havent watched a lot of the Gators games. Normally I would of gone into a long rant on why that is not true. This is not insulting your sports knowledge, I just assumed you did not watch a ton of Gator games and relied mostly on high light reels and a few prime time games. If you are a huge fan of the SEC and watch many many games a year, than I apologise for the assumption, but I still disagree with your assement.
"When you argue correctly, you're never wrong."-Nick Naylor
No harm no foul
I would not describe myself as a huge fan of the SEC. Florida is my favorite team in the conference. A good friend of mine is from Louisiana and a huge LSU fan, so I enjoy the rivarly from that perspective. Truth be told, I am such an avid vikings fan, I don’t have one true team in college football. But Florida is one of the teams I keep an eye on.
I am an Urban Meyer fan. I am a fan of the spread offense (at the high school and college level). I am even a Tim Tebow fan, probably not to the degree as you, but since you are apparently a student at Florida I suppose that goes without saying.
Tim Tebow is one of, if not the greatest college football player, ever. I have no problem in admitting that. His numbers and accomplishments speak for themselves. He’s also a great kid; high character.
I just have my doubts reservations as to whether or not his skill set will translate to a successful career in the NFL as a QB. I had/have the same reservations with regards to Vince Young and Alex Smith. For that very reason I am not on board with drafting Tebow.
And as far as the athlete arguement, its a moot point for several reasons. Neither Tebow or Crouch are currently in the NFL (that will all change in a few weeks), but more importantly, being a good athlete has never been a pre-requisite for playing QB in the NFL. In fact only Steve Young and John Elway come to mind as far as great athletes that also were great QB’s (modern era anyway).
At the most, I’d like you to respect my opinion, even if you don’t agree with it. At the very least, I hope you to caught my salute to the college years with my “pre-requisite” comment. ;-)
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Entitlement
Compared to Crouch, I think Tebow is about even in terms of entitlement if he believes that he should be selected in the 1st round. Weak arm + poor mechanics which need rebuilding + slow release + inaccurate + didn’t play in a pro-style offense = the 5 worst things that could possibly be said about any NFL QB prospect. Anyone who has all of those things written about him and still thinks of himself as a 1st round pick is at least bordering on entitlement.
We do need a QB for the future, but how about a real one?
Where did you hear that?
I haven’t heard Tebow say he thinks he is a 1st round pick. In fact, that sounds very uncharacteristic of him. Do you have a link?
by Cobra312004 on Mar 21, 2010 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions
He was invited to NY to sit in the green room on opening night
And he accepted. If he didn’t expect to come off the board in round 1, I’d find it highly unlikely that he would go to NY to sit through the entire first round just to get a good seat.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Sorry, no link. I heard it on BSPN
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Unless you heard Tebow say this with his own words that he will attend the draft
Then it was just speculation, or misinterpreted. Because I have not read or seen this confirmed any where. All I have read is he was invited.
"When you argue correctly, you're never wrong."-Nick Naylor
The report quoted Tebow's agent. He confirmed that he accepted the invite
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
He hasnt accepted as of yet
And he is un sure what he will do.
"When you argue correctly, you're never wrong."-Nick Naylor
I've read that too and as I said originally, I heard it on BSPN
But apparently the NFL has a ploy to boost the star power of this years draft invitees, since the average fan isn’t excited by the thought of DT’s going #1 and 2 overall. The NFL is toying with allowing guys (like Tebow and McCoy) to come and go from the green room so they are not stuck back there for hours they way Rogers was a few years ago.
I just have to wonder if anyone would accept if they didn’t think they’d go somewhere in round 1? I mean I guess they get a free trip to NY out of it, but…who knows.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
The Arguement Against Tim Tebow
Gonzo makes some great points. There is a lot to love about Time Tebow as a person. He is a smart, stand up guy, who has a lot of passion and is charismatic to a point where you can’t help but like the guy. But that doesn’t make him a 1st or even a 2nd round talent in the NFL. Its not his fault. It doesn’t mean Tebow isn’t a great or won’t be a great player, but even if there aren’t a lot of holes on your team, that doesn’t mean Tebow will be a good fit. Lets go back over Gonzo’s argument and show that while it all sounds great, its nothing more than rhetoric and hype for a kid that has meant a lot to the college football game, but has a lot of work to do, if he can ever be a legit NFL QB.
1. Production
No one is saying Tebow wasn’t productive in college. But every year it gets proven that you have to take that production into context. Here is the website for NCAA Football Statistics from 1999 to 2008 and Here is the website where you can download the .pdf file of the Division I Football record book that was published in 2009. Take note of the Individual and Team Collegiate Records link and follow me down the page. Every division of college football is taken into consideration when compiling these records which means only guys with elite production at any level of college football could get one these lists. Outside of Steve McNair (who played in Division II) there are no Football Hall of Famers. Colt Breenan seems to be the only name on here that is still in the NFL and he isn’t setting the league on fire. At least not yet, he’s only been in the league two years, but he was still a 6th round pick by the Redskins in 2008. And Colt is in the top 5 all time in yards, efficiency, TD passes, and yards in a single season. Outside of those two, the list is littered with the likes of Tommy Chaing, B.J. Symons, Graham Harrell, Keith Null (played for St. Louis last year and they now have the #1 overall pick and are looking to take a QB, just saying), Tim Rattay, and tons of guys that never got so much as a chance at making a NFL practice squad.
Production doesn’t always translate from college to the NFL because QB’s (especially QB’s) most of the time are being asked to do things that they wouldn’t do at the NFL level. Tebow comes from one of those offensive systems. Its not like his accomplishments can’t be compared too either. Yes he is the only player to rush and pass for at least 20 TDs when he did it in 2007. Did you know that in 2007, fellow 2010 draftee Dan LeFevour threw for 27 TDs and ran for 19 (he also threw/rushed for more yards putting him in the more exclusive 3600 yards passing/1100 yards rushing club)? One TD away from the mystical 20/20 club and in the same year no less. Even LeFevour is at best considered a 3rd round pick. Would one more rushing touchdown have made him worth the 30th overall? Did you know that Tebow also isn’t the only QB to win 2 national champs and win a Heisman? Matt Leinhart did that at USC before him (technically one of those national championships is split with LSU, but even Washington and Miami’s split in 1991 still counts). Leinhart even came into the NFL from a pro-style system at USC and while he is poised to take over, 4 years later, no one is thinking he is going to be a great QB for the Cardinals. Remains to be seen, but his play from reserve, while sitting behind a potentially Hall of Fame QB (similar to what would happen sitting behind Farve), over his career hasn’t been stellar.
2. He can sit this year and doesn’t need to play right away
Even I know Farve is coming back and until some other QB takes the opening day snap, there will be no convincing this guy otherwise. Since we are hypothetically considering taking Tebow, lets ask some hypothetical questions. Big if: Farve gets hurt and misses a game (big if so far considering his history, but stay with me). That would leave Jackson or Tebow to start the next game. Who has the best chance to start? The 30th overall pick in the last draft or the QB that most vocal fans would like to see thrown out of town? Could the coaches resist the urge to play the widely considered 3 year project that fans will be screaming to see?
Next hypothetical: The Vikings end the 2010 season and Farve retires. For real. The QBs still on the roster are Jackson and Tebow, who is, at least, the fan favorite to win the job? How loud would the contingent for Tebow to start be and again, do you really think Childress and Co will be able to get this project ready to go after one year of being the 3rd string? The 3rd string by the way, rarely, if ever, gets reps in practice once the season starts. Consider how Childress brought Jackson along, who was a Division II QB who played in a system that doesn’t translate to the NFL and was considered a project. He played Jackson the last 2 games of his rookie season and declared him the starter that off season. Do we need to rehash how that story has progressed. Nothing draws fervor in the Vikings fan base then declaring you’re like/dislike of Tarvaris Jackson, and all still agree that a QB is a position that needs to be addressed.
3. Tebow compares greatly to T-Jack
Both were productive QBs in systems that don’t translate to the NFL, both have mechanical/mental questions (can they read a defense?), and both are/were considered projects at the NFL level. The only real difference is that Jackson played at Div-II (or as it is now know the FCS) and Tebow played at a football factory D-I school. I am sure it didn’t hurt Tebow’s stats that the Gator defense has been as good as any in football during his career. There are going to be at least 5 players taken from that defense in this years draft. From one team that is pretty amazing and hasn’t been done since USC did it a few years back (the same years that Leinhart was there. Coincidence?) So other than where they played in college and the level of players around them. Jackson and Tebow are eerily similar draft prospect comparisons.
3. Expectations
So Tebow is, again hypothetically, drafted by the Vikings with the 30 or 62 overall pick. If he does struggle, and most think he will, and starts his career with similar numbers to Jackson (the 64th overall pick in 2006, 10-9 overall, 3600 yards, 58.7 comp%, with 21 TDs to 18 INTs) will Viking fans still be behind him? Or will they write about how dumb he is and that he will never be a franchise player? Will the Vikings have really solved their QB problems or will they be looking to draft a franchise QB? Its easy right now to sit on March 20, 2010 and say Tebow can just sit behind Farve and he’ll be good, but the reality of it is so much harder than that and there is no way, with the hype and the celebrity that Tebow comes with, that you can say he is be able to just sit for a year or two and everyone will forget that he is there and let him quietly develop. Especially, when you take him in the 1st round, let alone with the 62nd pick, just 2 picks earlier than Jackson went.
4. Hype
“He’s coachable!” “He has intangibles!” “He ran a 4.7 what an athlete!” Let me pose this question: What player would you draft and draft early that wasn’t coachable? Would you draft someone who didn’t bring something to the team besides his physical talent? Would you really draft some one who wasn’t considered “athletic”? These are just buzz words that have no correlation between who a person is and what they will do in the NFL. Also, 4.7 speed will get you caught at the line of scrimmage just about every time. Here you’ll find what DE’s , OLB’s , and ILB ran at the combine. There are a lot of 4.7 guys and a lot of guys that ran faster than that. Vick, arguably the most proficient modern rushing QB, ran a 4.36 so you can’t really say that he has the atheletic ability to continue running away from defenses like he did in college.
Back to the main point, which is that most arguments in favor for Tebow are hype that have been built around him that past few years. You can’t live in the Southeast (looking at you Gonzo), let alone the rest of the country without constantly being pummeled with news about Tim Tebow and how great he was. There used to be a great video on YouTube that cut a Florida/LSU game which any words spoken not about Tebow were cut out of the game tape, which resulted in the announcers constantly saying “Tim Tebow” over and over again with a few gems like “Tim Tebow, Tim Tebow, Tim Tebow runs, that is Tebow’s roommate there, Tim Tebow, Tebow , Tim, Tebow, Tebow is the kind of guy you want to marry your daughter, Tebow Tim Tebow,” etc and it went on for over 6 minutes. Always made me laugh. Its no longer on YouTube due to “a copyright claim by Collegiate Images, LLP” which I assume is because they used broadcast video, but imagine that kind of commentary being thrown at people week after week for 3 years. Of course you’d want to root for the guy after 3 years of campaigning like that, but that still doesn’t make it any more than hype because it doesn’t matter how much pundits or coaches like you as a person, but what your skills can do for the team on the field.
I know this is probably going to change exactly zero people’s opinions on the guy. That’s not what is was. This was to show that its not hating on a guy because of his beliefs (could care less and I wouldn’t be surprised if there are lots of guys in the NFL who are devote in their faith) or what people think of him as a person. There are real concerns about whether or not he will amount to anything more than a publicity stunt in the NFL and when you strip away what people say about him and look at him as if he were any other guy who played in college and is looking for a job in the NFL: you get a project QB that will need a few years of coaching to be ready to play on Sundays and you don’t draft players like that in the first 2 rounds. There are so many more talented prospects with less risk at positions where the Vikings need players that I wouldn’t even look his direction till after the 3rd round.
He can sit and develop...
Every time I hear or read that as if it were a good reason to draft a lesser talent, my skin crawls. A better QB would make better use of that year.
I know you didn’t mean it that way, though.
Maybe that’s the only way that Chilly, Bevell & Co. roll, though. Maybe they don’t know what to do with a guy who can already play for the most part. Maybe they only know how to tear down a bad QB and not quite build him back up so that he feels dependent upon Chilly and Bevell for the rest of his life.
Nicely written your starting to make me slide on Tebow
Personally, there are three QB’s I would not be upset with taking. I would just like to take on early so we don’t have a chance of missing out on it.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
you probably could have included the 40 times for dlinemen too
The fact is there are plenty of DE’s and even a few DT’s in the NFL these days that run in the 4.8 range.
Tebow was unable to run at the senior bowl.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Didn't he go 4th overall in our mock draft?
From the only TRUE North division
by thewild_viking_twins on Mar 20, 2010 11:10 PM CDT reply actions
Yes
but it was a mock, by armchair draft analysts. The Redskins aren’t going to take Tebow 4th overall. At the very least, if they WERE going to target a QB, they would easily take Clausen, assuming the Rams go with Bradford, who is widely regarded as being a better pro-prospect than Tebow is.
If Tebow had an NFL throwing motion, he would probably be the consensus #1 overall pick, despite playing in the spread offense. But he does not have that.
by medicineball on Mar 21, 2010 11:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Arent these some of the same concerns they had back with...
Philip Rivers?
One power slam from Brock and Mir might be dead. He better watch his words. He'll be eating them soon.
Rivers has an unconventional throwing motion, but he gets the ball out quickly.
by medicineball on Mar 22, 2010 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions
and Rivers is 6'5"
so even with a low release, he still throws like he’s 6’3"
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
What about Brees?
He throws at 6’0".
Nevermind that prick is one of a kind.
One power slam from Brock and Mir might be dead. He better watch his words. He'll be eating them soon.
Ya he is...
But he also has very good mechanics, almost as good as Peyton Manning. They both have high release points.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
I'd rather take Colt
over Tebow. Only reason we are talking about him is cause the media loves him. I guess i wouldnt mind taking him in the 3rd round, even though I think thats too early.
SKOL VIKINGS 2010!!
Media loves him but also...
He is hands down the most athletic QB in this draft. He works his ass off, is a tremendous leader and is exceptionally coachable. Oh, and if he doesn’t pan out at QB (which I admit is a legitimate, or even likely, possibility), he has the athletic ability and work ethic to become a Pro Bowl caliber TE. No other QB in this class has his intangibles, work ethic or (especially) his potential versatility.
Quite frankly, the only reason we are talking about him, if we must choose one, is that he is simply the most interesting prospect in this draft. And it’s not even close.
to clarify
About the most interesting prospect comment, he is a player that set NCAA records but is being questioned about whether or not he can actually play his position. He is QB who is attempting to completely re-learn how to throw a football. How often has that happened heading into a draft? Tweak? Yes. Rework from scratch? Not so much. He is the most athletic QB in the draft by far. He is transitioning out of what may be the worst offense in college to transition to the NFL with. He could LITERALLY be chosen almost anywhere on draft day. Need I go on? What other player has a more interesting story in this draft?
Several
Not record setters, as if Tebow did all of that by himself. No, surely it didn’t help Tebow to have a very talented team around him which has included NFL draftees (plus a few more this year).
There have been other QBs who were considered for other positions:
- Kordell Stewart played WR/RB 1 yr, and all told, he perhaps should have stayed at WR.
- Eric Crouch was going to learn how to be a WR/KR or S at the NFL level, but didn’t.
- Drew Henson was a 2-sport athlete who returned to football after MLB didn’t work out.
- Major universities were only interested in Steve McNair as a non-QB, including safety.
- Brad Smith was a really good NCAA QB at Mizzou, now primarily a WR/RET in the NFL. At least he’s gotten some preseason snaps as the 3rd QB.
- Andre Ware had one of the best seasons of a college QB in history, but didn’t pan out, even though the Lions ran a run-and-shoot also.
Let’s not forget Chris Leak, the FL QB who led the Gators to a national championship.
...and...
Antwaan Randle-El @ WR
Ronald Curry @ WR
Hines Ward @ WR
David Palmer @ WR/KR
…and many more I’ll forget as soon as I press enter, and even more from the 90s and earlier.
It’s not unusual for a college QB to change positions in order to draw interest from NFL teams.
Ignoring for a moment...
Ignoring for a moment that the question was about why Tebow is the media story of THIS draft and not how many times a player has switched positions heading into the draft, not ONE of those players had the kind of production in college that Tebow has had at Florida so the comparison doesn’t really work (and really only adds to the intrigue IMO).
Did he do it alone? No of course not. But NO ONE EVER HAS. Should we punish a player for being surrounded by other great players?
Point is Tebow is the story of the draft for legitimate reasons, not because of some media bias. Still waiting to hear a player in THIS DRAFT that the media should be focusing on instead.
by Cobra312004 on Mar 21, 2010 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Lets not forget that
Josh Cribbs was a Qb in High School and Im almost sure he was in College too.
I love Twins Baseball and Minnesota Vikings Football.
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Mar 21, 2010 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Jarrett Brown and Dan LeFevour are just as "athletic"
And to be honest both Brown and LeFevour are more polished QB’s right now
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Being a biased CMU student...
I say we should definitely get LeFevour over Tebow.
But that’s just me.
In AP I trust
F-A-R-V-A =/= F-A-V-R-E
by FarvaForTheVikings on Mar 22, 2010 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not a CMU student but I still really like LeFevour
McCoy and LeFevour are the only 2 QB’s that I like in this draft.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Oh you mean
We could get a good QB later in the draft and still be able to get a DB in the first, something else in the 2nd…
Where is LeFevour projected to go? Imagine we only had to use a 4th or 5th round pick on him. That seems ideal.
What if we could get Colt McCoy with the late 2nd rounder?
Thoughts?
One power slam from Brock and Mir might be dead. He better watch his words. He'll be eating them soon.
Gonzo, I agree with your overall opinion on Tebow
and would love to draft him with our second round pick, but…he ain’t gonna be there. There is a good chance that he won’t be there at #30 either. But looking at our lack of movement in free agency, we’re forcing ourselves to draft players that can play sooner rather than later.
We need a starting CB (maybe two) and at least one safety. Our MLB is apparently on a fast road to recovery but it’s hard to believe he’ll be ready to play at 100% on opening day if he ever returns to 100%. We need some more talent at RG and maybe C, and although many Vikings fans are in love with Markice Pouncey in the first, these two positions fall behind only kicker and punter (in my opinion) to warrant first round picks.
So if we had to use a 1st on a QB that needs time to be a starter if he ever becomes one, I would be a bit worried. Of course, just having the Vikings draft the proverbial QBOTF would be at least a first step. Childress doesn’t seem to take the need all that seriuosly after all.
But I do think Tebow is worth a first round pick in the right situation. There are things in Tebow’s game obviously that need work, so anyone drafting him in hopes of him playing soon would be setting themselves and him up for failure. But I don’t think any team will do that anyway. With Tebow’s talent, character, and drive, I don’t see how he won’t be a successful NFL player.
While he does have some tendencies that give pause to anyone thinking he will be the next John Elway, a fair amount of criticism from fans may be in response to his image. If he weren’t an outspoken christian, I don’t think he would be catching all the criticism that he’s getting on the blogs. The expression of christian faith can turn some people off after all, and whether that is from self reflection or not is debatable. But try to imagine Tebow’s college resume, size, athleticism and leadership abilities in a young man who WASN’T an outspoken christian. Would he be so chastised then? I don’t think so. Maybe I’m wrong, you be the judge.
I imagined the player you described
without being an outspoken Christian. That player is still a third round talent and one that doesn’t get talked about as much. Being Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, or worshipping Satan has nothing to do with an athletes talent level or potential to succeed in the NFL. I was raised as a Christian and while I do not practice anymore I believe that it, like almost any religion teach good values and general human decency. None of that helps a person throw a football better though.
I don’t dislike Tebow or his pro Christian stance. People are free to believe whatever they choose and shouldn’t be criticized for their beliefs. I will say that being an outspoken Christian may get you some criticism but it will get you just as much or more positive attention.
Anyway, don’t want to bring too much belief talk into football talk. I agree with you that we have more pressing needs than QB at OG and CB. Ideally, I hope we end up with a good corner and guard from the first two rounds and draft Hardesty in the third. After that BPA for depth sounds great to me.
by CanadianViking on Mar 21, 2010 6:26 AM CDT up reply actions
I didn’t argue that his faith would make him a better passer, or that any criticism of his game is just because he’s a christian. I simply opined that much of the negativity he gets on blogs from fans is probably mostly because of his faith.
by Bodysuit Man on Mar 21, 2010 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions
I see what you're saying.
I have heard some people criticize him for his overt faith and I disagree with doing that. I think a lot of people dislike him because he’s talked about so much. He just seems to be one of those people that the media loves to talk about in good and bad contexts.
He’s considered the third or fourth best QB in this draft but he’s discussed more than the other top three QB’s combined. I have no dislike of Tebow but I wish his talent was discussed more than his character and faith. I understand that intangibles are important but they have to complement existing talent. In my opinion I don’t think his skill level warrants the first round discussion he has sparked.
He’s a likeable guy and I think people tend to overate him because they want him to succeed. Myron Rolle is another example of this. Talent wise he’s considered a 4th or 5th round prospect. Due to his appealing story I’ve heard people say that he should be drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round. In Rolle’s case I like his story so much that I kinda want us to reach for him in the 3rd round even though it’s probably not a good football decision.
by CanadianViking on Mar 21, 2010 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions
God can win games.
You all remember when Kurt Warner fell to his knees and yelled, “thank you Jesus” after winning his first Super Bowl.
And just last year Brett Favre went to church and prayed before the first Vikings – Packers game. You all know what happened after that.
If it works for those guys, why can’t it work for Tebow?
I would caution everyone to be extra careful while God and Jesus (one in the same) are watching football, because you might not get much help with your own emergency.
Hey, I wonder if Pat Robertson has ever considered coaching?
by JethroBoViking on Mar 21, 2010 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t be surprised if Kurt Warner fell to his knees and yelled, “thank you Jesus” after being given a bowl of cornflakes in the morning.
by CanadianViking on Mar 21, 2010 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions
You got something against cornflakes?!
:)
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Could'a went with rice crispies
or Count Chocula. I just picture Warner as a cornflakes kinda guy!
by CanadianViking on Mar 21, 2010 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions
And
Did Kurt forget to pray all of those other years? I really doubt it.
Randall Cunningham was a prayer guy, too, and that got him to zero SBs.
Faith is certainly not an asset which outweighs talent at all.
Hes kidding
I love Twins Baseball and Minnesota Vikings Football.
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Mar 21, 2010 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions
I was joking around, but
the references to Kurt Warner and Brett Favre are fact.
(CanadianViking’s cornflakes comment was pretty funny.)
by JethroBoViking on Mar 22, 2010 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Thanks
Believe it or not but Sarcasm is Canada’s second official language, not French.
by CanadianViking on Mar 22, 2010 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Quiet,
keep that secret in North America. We both require the protection of a Canadian flag when traveling to other countries:)
by CanadianViking on Mar 22, 2010 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions
You weren't supposed to tell
not even the Americans. That’s it! No more maple syrup on your poutine.
I may be old but I... oh d*mn, I forgot what I was going to say.
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Mar 23, 2010 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions
It doesn’t outweigh talent by any means, but with the league coming down harder and harder on off field behavior, and players under a tighter and tighter microscope, it is an asset to consider.
But PHMF is right, the guy was kidding.
by Cobra312004 on Mar 21, 2010 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Right.
I don’t think off the field behavior is necessarily dictated by religion. It certainly wasn’t with political figures like Marc Sanford or even religious figures like Jim Bakker or pediphile priests. (And I’d have stuck with NFL players as examples had I known more about their personal lives, but I don’t have that info.)
What did we know about Flacco or Stafford or Sanchez or Culpepper or McNabb or Matt Ryan or John Elway or Dan Marino at this stage of their careers in terms of religion? Nothing! There was plenty to discuss in terms of their talents and skill sets instead.
Buyer beware.
Nah Warner is probably sick of Corn flakes
or any other cereal for that matter, after those years he spent stocking them at the grocery store
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Satan loosing his power.
Don’t the Oakland Raiders worship Satan? It used to work for them, but something must have happened. Did Mel Gibson become a Raiders fan?
by JethroBoViking on Mar 21, 2010 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah,
didn’t mean to include him in my list.
by CanadianViking on Mar 21, 2010 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions
How do you know?
Ever read his book? Satan’s pretty cool just horrible PR.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
2nd pick...
I think some great BPA’s will be available for the first.
Mocks show us taking Weatherspoon or a CB for our first round.
But, we may want to add a running back at our 2nd pick.
And we still need to potentially upgrade our offensive line.
I think T-Jack will probably do better than any QB we draft this year within the first 3 rounds, and I’m not exactly in favor of T-Jack..
I think a year behind Favre, plus a potential additional year, we may as well see if he’s learned anything.. Maybe he’ll come out great in 2 years since most of his time has been spent during garbage time giving him confidence.. (Confidence is what he’s lacked…)
picking a qb too early can lead to...
using two third round picks to move up into the end of the second round to draft tjoke. drafting tebow at 30 would be the same boat . added pressure and expectation due to what was still available at the time of the pick .if mr aarp favre comes back and we draft a qb we have tjoke under restricted free agent and sage under three more years .last time we tried to carry 4 qbs it was tyler thigpen who got left out in the rain and by now if he were still a viking would be competing for the back up to favre or starter over tjoke.tebow at pick 62 would make sense if the draft is stocked with talent then 62 i dont think he lasts until pick 94. tebow reminds me of flutie lots of yeahbuts , and the main yeahbut that not many talk about is winning big games ….at pick 30 take best guy on board who might fill a hole of need.
He Ain't coming at # 30 maybe # 59 or # 62
The VIKES have drated folks that can make an immediate impact with their # 1. He does not quality. If they like him, they could move up a few spots in round 2 to get him.
# 4 the coach
I stil lthink # 4 should be the QB & QB coach this year and next year, yes next year, be the QB coach and the emergancy QB.
You wrote a post about drafting Tebow?
Wonder what my two egyptian friends think of that…
You can't see California without Marlon Brando's eyes.
by ifuwannacrownem on Mar 22, 2010 4:45 AM CDT reply actions
First off
I think we are all wrong with our needs for this team. Yes we could use a corner, yes we could use a OG and MLB. However, we don’t NEED any of them with pretty much this same team we made it almost all of the way. Now if we lose one person off this team which one would affect the teams ability to win the most? Without a doubt that would be Favre. Partially because the man is an amazing QB, but it’s also because TJ is just a bad QB.
So when I think of what this team needs the most I have to think it’s a new QB. Win now mentalities just don’t work. There are to many variables in the NFL, to many chances, to many small things that will turn a game. We had the team last yeat to win teh SB. I don’t think anyone here will or can deny it. We didn’t we will have a team that can do it this year. Will we? I don’t know, but I do know that the only way to really have a chance is to go to the game as many times as possible.
This is why coaches go for the BPA instead of looking to fill holes in the boat. This is why we need a QB fast, and we should be looking for one EVERY year tell we find him. Heck I wouldn’t even be upset if the Vikes drafted more than one QB.
Just my thoughts. However, the rest of you would live better lives if you just agreed with me.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Little off topic but
I just played the new God of War 3. If Kratos were real he would be the only player I’d draft. Lol.
Play the dam game its frikin’ amazing.
One power slam from Brock and Mir might be dead. He better watch his words. He'll be eating them soon.
3rd or 4th round
I think the Jags will take Tebow in the 3rd to sell tickets. I have heard nothing hear to convince me he should go before the 4th round if then.
I may be old but I... oh d*mn, I forgot what I was going to say.
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Mar 22, 2010 2:19 PM CDT reply actions
I am a huge Gator fan but not a Tebow homer.
Its nice to see fans judge Tebow soley on his Football skills. I am so tired of reading SBN blogs with people spewing all kinds of hatefull comments about Tebow unrelated to his football skills.
You can take whatever I say as homerism, or you can understand I watched every single college game Tebow ever played.
His arm strength is NOT in question. One of the rare compliments he recieved at the Senior Bowl was his ability to throw the deep ball.
His acuracy is ok, not great but it gets much worse when he is out of the pocket. This may have something to do with his footwork and his bad habit of throwing semi side arm.
His mechanics are comparable to Byron Leftwich. Very slow release but his recent work outs at the Gator pro day were impressive and he did not flutter the ball as some have claimed. Dont take my word for it though, google what some NFL coaches thought about his pro day.
Reading defenses and his awareness is in question. I can’t argue much with this, since he was rarely asked to do those things. BUT in the rare cases when the game was put on his shoulders to pass the ball, 2009 Arkansas game, 2008 SEC championship game, he seemed to do well. Also Urban Meyers spread option requires the QB to be able to read the defense once the ball is snapped. I have read that his offense is very hard to master because you have a split second to decide what to do with the ball and you have at least 3-4 options to choose correctly from.
He did not excell in college because he was fast, he excelled because he was quick and very strong. His runs rarely broke 15-20 yards but he was usually in a better postion than the tackler and there for had a lot of success breaking tackles. Some of his high light reels consists of him running people over, but I dont see him doing that quite as often in the NFL obviously. But I do see him being able to use his quickness and strength to break initial arm tackles and the occasional linebacker in a bad position.
I could go on more but I think this hits most of the comments here. I would not pick him with a 1st round pick, but I would use a second round pick on him. His risks come with a much greater upside. Your not going to get a great prospect out of the 1st round unless they have some sort of risk.
"When you argue correctly, you're never wrong."-Nick Naylor
The issue is...
That his biggest risk happens to be everything that a good quarterback in the NFL needs. As of right now his tools are equal to Byron Leftwich you say, but where is Byron? He’s a backup, and really was not an overly productive starter save for a few years early. If that’s what you have to look forward to with Tebow, then count me out. One thing I will say though is that he seems to have the drive to improve, which is nice to see, but the issue is can he do it. I don’t think that type of risk is worth a first or even a second round. Late 3rd, or 4th round at best.
by SouthSotaPop on Mar 31, 2010 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions
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