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Roster and draft: offense


This offseason, the Minnesota Vikings are slowly building on to an already good team. The roster has a good mix of veterans and younger players. The team had relatively little playoff experience until they crushed the Cowboys at home, and came close to upsetting the eventual Super Bowl champions the Saints on the road.

It might be interesting to go through the whole depth chart and see what the team looks like right now. First, the offense.

Star-divide

I'm just a fan basing this on observations, so corrections are welcome.

 

Quarterback depth

Brett Favre, Tarvaris Jackson, Sage Rosenfels.

There are two scenarios: Favre retires, or plays in 2010. As for whether he would play in 2011, for the sake of simplicity, let's just assume that by then he is retired.

No team has ever won the Super Bowl with a starting quarterback who was on his first year with a new team. This iron law of quarterbacks haunted the Vikings in 2009, but leaves open the door for a Super Bowl run with Favre in 2010.

If Favre retires now, the Vikings' best shot at winning Super Bowl XLV in Dallas is to start either Tarvaris Jackson or Sage Rosenfels at quarterback for the 2010 season. My fellow fans who want to trade for McNabb now, or trade up for Jimmy Clausen and draft him in the top 10 or 15 should consider this point. If we bring in a new starter at quarterback, we have no chance at winning this next Super Bowl, no matter who that is. Even Brett Favre in his best year as a pro ever couldn't lead his team to the Lombardi Trophy in his first year. McNabb or Clausen would do no better. (It's pretty well-established that a quarterback drafted in the top 10 or 15 must start for all or much of his rookie season to justify the economic expense.)

A quarterback is not just some guy you put in the line-up and see what happens. Like every other football player, there is chemistry between players that takes time to develop. Take Bernard Berrian. His hamstring injuries prevented him from practicing much during the 2009 season. He and Favre were never able to develop a rhythm like Favre and Sidney Rice did. At critical junctures in the season, including at Pittsburgh, at Arizona, at Carolina, at Chicago, and at New Orleans, the offense came up a little short partially because Favre and the rest of the offense just weren't completely in sync. As I watched the 2009 season, I firmly, deeply believed that if any quarterback could break the iron law of quarterbacks, it was Brett Favre. Too many bad things happened in the NFC Championship game, and in retrospect, they happened because the team lacked playoff experience, while the Saints had the necessary experience from their NFCCG against the Bears a few years ago.

I believe Favre will return for another year.

Thus, the need at quarterback in 2010 is simple: find a young guy to develop who is not a big name who can sit on the practice squad the whole year without getting swiped, like Tyler Thigpen was. My ideal choice would be Tyler Sheehan of Bowling Green. Other possibilities are Daryll Clark, Max Hall, and Matt Nichols. The latter three don't have the talent of Sheehan, but they do have bowl game wins under their belt.

Unless a team dangles an exceptional offer for Sage Rosenfels, the Vikings should keep him, even if Favre returns. While Rosenfels may prefer to start elsewhere, he is an asset to the Vikings even on the sideline. Plus, there is the 2011 season in which he may get the nod. He'll make good money and have a chance for a ring. That's a good situation to be in.

What about the need for a quarterback in 2011? Assuming Favre retires by then, we will have Jackson, Rosenfels, and the young developmental prospect. The 2011 draft will have quarterbacks like Jake Locker, Ryan Mallett, and Greg McElroy. We might add another quarterback in the 2011 draft. There is also the possibility of signing Donovan McNabb, Michael Vick, or Kevin Kolb as an unrestricted free agent. In other words, the quarterback situation will be fine then, too.

For the quarterback position, the Vikings need a strong-armed athlete. By 2013 or so, the Vikings will have a new outdoor or retractable-roof stadium. A guy we draft now will spend a lot of his career battling cold winds in Green Bay, Chicago, Minnesota, and elsewhere. A weak-armed quarterback like Tim Tebow, Tony Pike, Dan LeFevour, Tim Hiller, Sean Canfield, or Colt McCoy will struggle in that situation. We don't want to be like the Bills, playing in the windy Orchard Park, and in the windy AFC East, and have a weak-armed quarterback like Trent Edwards. We need a guy with a gun.

Running back depth

Adrian Peterson, Albert Young, Percy Harvin, Ian Johnson, James Johnson

Peterson is going to work out his fumbling issue. It all stems from him having big biceps. He is so built that he doesn't have a cradle for the ball in his arm, because his biceps bulge out. Tiki Barber had the same situation. It appears likely that after Peterson and the coaches study what to do, Peterson will start carrying the ball high and tight on his chest. It might look different than the way Walter Payton used to carry the football, but it will be effective. With one less thing to slow him down, Peterson will be ready for another good year.

Apparently even if AD becomes a great pass blocker and receiver, we will still use a third-down back in order to maximize the length of Peterson's career. No need to wear him down when we can use Young, Harvin, and Johnson to spell him.

As a third-down back, Albert Young will be very good. He has a skill set reminiscent of Chester Taylor. Young's presence means we don't have to go draft a guy high just to get a third-down back. We are already set, despite losing Chester Taylor and not signing LaDanian Tomlinson.

Ian Johnson was on the practice squad this year. He was very effective in preseason. While he doesn't meet certain check-the-box criteria to be a starting NFL running back, like his narrow shoulders, he is a baller. We need to get him on the field for the Vikings this year. In college he wore #41, and he will probably switch to that number again.

Maybe James Johnson can come in and contribute. He can both run and catch.

The Vikings rarely used Albert Young last year, except when the game was broken open. This year, it would be nice to see the third running back--probably Ian Johnson--get some carries in every game. A good change of pace can wreck havoc on the opposing defense. When Ian Johnson adds to what Young and Harvin are doing, defenses will stop keying on Peterson so much, and find themselves back on their heels, especially when Adrian Peterson does get the ball.

The zone-blocking scheme allows us to bring in undrafted guys, or guys drafted in the late rounds, and have them do well. That's what the Broncos did, and that's what the Vikings will do. Stafon Johnson is interesting because his running style nicely complements Peterson's. Andre Anderson of Tulane could be another Mewelde Moore. Javarris James of Miami is the cousin of Edgerrin James, and so he must be good. Pat Paschall of North Dakota State runs tough. If we draft a running back this year, it should be a guy who can be on the practice squad for a year, if he doesn't beat out Ian Johnson in training camp.

Fullback depth

Naufahu Tahi, Jeff Dugan

it's probably time to use the fullback less. As we found out in the second half of the game at Soldier Field last year, using a third wide receiver instead of a fullback ignited the offense, including the running game. Peterson has never been at his best running behind a fullback. The zone-blocking scheme doesn't need a fullback. Just let the running back make his decision without having to follow the fullback. Free Adrian Peterson to be himself.

That said, Fahu Tahi has given us a very physical presence at the fullback position. I think it's just time to tweak the offense in a different direction. Could Tahi make the team as a running back? I hope the Vikings give Tahi a shot at this. He is built like a fireplug, and could be that short-yardage wrecking ball we sometimes need.

Tight end depth

Visanthe Shiancoe, Jim Kleinsasser, Jeff Dugan, Garrett Mills

Shiancoe has matured into a fine receiving tight end. He doesn't get a lot of yards after the catch, though. Both Shiancoe and Kleinsasser are in their 30s. If Dugan or Mills can step up and become the heir-apparent for Shiancoe and Kleinsasser, that would be great. On the other hand, there are some great tight ends in this draft. Jermaine Gresham could be an outstanding player. Between Gresham, Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Jimmy Graham, Dennis Pitta, Dorin Dickerson and many other prospects, the Vikings can draft a good tight end if they like. A player like Michael Hoomanawanui or Jim Dray could end up on the Vikings' practice squad for the 2010 season, and be groomed.

Wide receiver depth

WR: Bernard Berrian, Jaymar Johnson

WR: Sidney Rice, Greg Lewis, Taye Biddle

Slot: Percy Harvin, Darius Reynaud, Vinny Perretta

With the emergence of Sidney Rice, and Rookie of the Year Percy Harvin, and key contributions from Greg Lewis, the wide receiver corps transformed from a question mark into a strength in the 2009 season. The challenge in 2010 is for the whole unit to remain healthy and productive, and improve. Additionally, there is room for another receiver to step up, play with the offense, and contribute. Could that be Jaymar Johnson, D-Rey, Perretta, Biddle, or even Greg Lewis?

The draft is loaded with outstanding wide receiver prospects. Some include Eric Decker, Carlton Mitchell, Mardy Gilyard, Duke Calhoun, Blair White, Andre Roberts, and Freddie Barnes. The Vikings might draft a receiver this year, but maybe a guy like Jaymar Johnson is ready to step up and contribute.

Offensive line depth

ROT - Phil Loadholt, Ryan Cook, Drew Radovich

RG - Anthony Herrera

C - John Sullivan, Jon Cooper

LG - Steve Hutchinson

LOT - Bryant McKinnie, Chris Clark, Patrick Brown

Due to injuries and two new starters, the Vikings offensive line had some real challenges in 2009. Overall they did well. Things look better for 2010, but nevertheless the offensive line still appears to be one of the biggest areas of need on the entire team as the 2010 draft looms.

A key loss this offseason was the versatile Artis Hicks. With a gap now existing at backup left tackle, the door opens for a Chris Clark, Patrick Brown, Ryan Cook, or a newly drafted player to win the job of backup left tackle.

At right guard, Herrera has received a vote of support from Brad Childress in the media recently. Herrera can "get back on that horse", have a good offseason, and do a good job in '10. Some might be skeptical. In any case, though, the Vikings will need to draft a guard. Herrera and Hutchinson are both in their thirties, and the current backup guards are Ryan Cook and Jon Cooper, both of whom are primarily assigned to other positions. Drafting a guard would add depth.

At center, John Sullivan had a good but not spectacular rookie season. If he can keep improving and become the rock solid center the Vikings need, that would be ideal. Jon Cooper also has a chance. It does appear, though, that the Vikings may be tempted to draft a center to challenge for a roster spot. Maurkice Pouncey is the obvious choice in the first round. Matt Tennant of Boston College and JD Walton of Baylor also rank highly.

Ryan Cook is Mr. Versatile on the offensive line. Considering that he is a solid veteran, familiar with the offense, and can play every offensive line position, he is an asset to the team.

In the Childress era, the Vikings have tended to draft and sign offensive linemen who already had a background in the zone-blocking scheme. With all the starters set to return to the team this year, and all having a good to really good chance to keep their starting jobs, the Vikings might be tempted by a Mitch Petrus, Jason Fox, Vladimir Ducasse, Roger Saffold, or other lineman who does not have a ZBS background. With the starters in place,  the Vikings can be patient, and take the time to groom a player into the ZBS. The net result is a wider net of offensive line prospects to consider in the draft.

Even if Herrera and Sullivan ride their horses in top-notch form, there is still room for one or two offensive line draft picks this year. They can make the team as backups, or perhaps start. With three starters in their 30s, drafting another lineman or two would make sense. On the other hand, those drafted players would have to out-compete a Jon Cooper, or Chris Clark or Patrick Brown. It wouldn't be worthwhile to draft a marginal offensive lineman, because he probably couldn't make the team anyway. It's only worth drafting somebody who can out-compete one of the guys we have.

Summary

The Vikings have talented players starting on offense. There are no huge injury concerns for the offense at this time. The 2010 draft is an opportunity to improve offensive depth, and perhaps find a future offensive starter or two here and there. The big offensive need area for the draft is interior offensive line.

We all want Favre to return.

If Favre does retire now, however, the Vikings are best off going with Jackson and Rosenfels, plus a developmental prospect at quarterback. Of course, if Jimmy Clausen falls to the Vikings in the first round at the 30th pick, he can be that developmental prospect.

On the defensive side of the ball, due to injuries, the situation is a little more serious.

This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.

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I agree with the general summation. The Vikings are looking great on offense which has been the case this past decade. As it pertains to the draft, I wouldn’t expect more than one or two offense guys to be taken. With injuries and age, the Vikings defense is going to have more needs for starters/rotational guys and depth and I expect the draft to focus more on that side of the ball. The real issue I think for the offense in the coming year will be who gets a new contract first if at all: Peterson or Rice? The QB debate will probably dominate the conversation more, but those two will be a big a reason any QB is successful in Minnesota.

by Josh_D on Mar 31, 2010 3:35 PM CDT reply actions  

Nice work...

Upon first review, I only disagree with 2 things:

1. Iron law of QB’s. You claim that no QB has ever won the super bowl in his first season with a new team; you are correct in stating this. However, I would use caution when trying to use this as justification for TJack being a better option that DMac in 2010 if Favre were to retire. Let me explain:

I believe there are a few other facts to explain this phenomenon. First of all the age of Free Agency is still in its infancy within the context of the history of the NFL. In the old days, players often played for the same team until they had little to nothing left to give and then traded away, e.g. Y.A. Tittle, Archie Manning, and Johnny Unitas. It would be difficult under any circumstances to bring in a guy way passed his prime and expect to win the super bowl in first year with a new team, regardless of how good he used to be.

So because marqee QB’s in the prime of their careers seldom changed teams prior to 1994, of course the odds of a QB changing teams and taking his new team to the SB are going to decrease naturally.

So what about the time since? What about in days of Free Agency? If we look at the last 16 years of the league, we would be hard pressed to find an occurance of a marqee QB in the prime of his career changing teams because usually they are locked up with big-dollar, multi-year contracts to prevent them from leaving in the first place.

Only one example comes to mind, Drew Brees. But even that is not a great example. He was coming of a potential career-threatening shoulder injury so it’s not hard to believe that San Diego and Miami were skeptical of his health.

Finally, most successful teams build around their QB. See New England, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh, and Philly. They lock up a franchise QB, then put the pieces around him to win that Super Bowl in 3-4 years time (not year 1). The Vikings on the other hand, seem to operate in bizarro world. We have had the best running back for a few years now, one of the best offensive linemen, and the best defensive end in the game; but prior to Favre’s arrival, no QB to speak of.

In summary, no QB’s have won a super bowl in year one, not because its an iron law of nature, but because the situation just hasn’t existed for it to reasonably occur. The 2009 Vikes were as close as any, literally; But in the end we just made too many mistakes to deserve to win that game on the road. Call it lack of experience, call it bad coaching, but don’t blame it on the fact that we had a new QB at the helm. Donovan McNabb would give us a 100x’s better chance of winning the Super Bowl in 2010 than TJack and Sage could combined.

2. And I’ll keep this short. I don’t agree that Dan LeFevour has a weak arm.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Mar 31, 2010 3:54 PM CDT reply actions  

Good argument. We both have our reasons for thinking that one quarterback or another would do better. You have a good case. My own thinking is McNabb has never had really good chemistry with a receiver, and he will take in excess of a year to really become effective. I don’t think Donovan McNabb can just show up and become the leader like Favre did. He doesn’t have that kind of leadership ability.

Above all, bringing in McNabb will repeat the mistakes of the 90s. The mistake comes from the desire to “win now” and leads to bringing in a veteran with better statistics than the guy on the roster. But the guy on the roster (Brad Johnson, Rich Gannon, Tarvaris Jackson) knows the team, and that doesn’t show up on any statistic. He is also our guy. He has already walked through multiple walls of fire to just stay with the team, and that shows what being a Viking means to him. He’s our guy. If we go down, I want to go down with our guy, not “another veteran coming through for a year or two.” With Favre, it was different. He’s an all-time top-5 quarterback. He writes his own rules. We need Favre, T-Jack, or Rosenfels. Our guys can do the job, just like Brad Johnson did for the Bucs once he became familiar with their team, just like Brad Johnson or Rich Gannon would have done for us in the 1999-2001 time frame if we had just stuck with him.

And yes, Brad Johnson was traded to the Redskins. The Vikings voluntarily surrendered our guy, Brad Johnson, for just some draft picks. That may have been motivated by financial concerns, but it was an epic mistake.

by medicineball on Mar 31, 2010 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

McNabb has never really had recievers

He had Owens and… well that was it until recently.

by Frost on Apr 1, 2010 4:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree with you 100%

I am tired of the revolving door of QB’s. It’s actually quite amazing that we have had the success we have enjoyed with the number of different QB’s we have started over the last 10 years. Only teams like Cleveland, Detroit and Miami have started more.

But, chemistry or not, McNabb is a top tier QB in this league. TJack and Sage are not. The confidence he would bring to his teammates alone would make him a better option for us. With that being said, I am patiently awaiting the news that #4 will return for 2010.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Apr 1, 2010 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ya beat me to that reply

In now way shape or form is TJ going to do a better job of getting us to the big game than McNabb would. Just don’t see it.

It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...

by Grime on Apr 1, 2010 7:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1

I’ll blame it on 12 man in the huddle (chilly)

by dsludo on Apr 1, 2010 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

So Peterson, Berrian and

Harvins fumbles don’t deserve any of the blame. Favre’s INt?

by KC612 on Apr 1, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, but you can put the fumbles and Favre’s INT on Chilly as well. That entire game was mismanaged.

The Saint’s defense relies on turnovers, that is their game. They are not particularly fast, they can’t stop the run, and they give up a ton of passing yards. But they know if they can get the ball to their offense, they will likely score.

So that should have been Chilly’s primary game plan, protect the ball. Their scheme is no secret, and he did not game plan against it.

Now, we all know what kind of player Brett Favre is. If he is in a position to take a chance, HE WILL TAKE IT. Everyone knows that, that is his M.O.

You don’t put Brett Favre in a position to force a throw when the game is on the line, unless it is the ONLY way you can win. Chilly put Favre in a position that he should not have been in and Favre did what Favre does.

That is why I am not mad at Favre for the throw, it is what he does, it’s what makes him special..

by Bjorno on Apr 1, 2010 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

And Chilly had kept him out of temptations way

Fairly successfully up to that point. So Chilly was hoping Favre would pull a play out of his butt right then.

It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...

by Grime on Apr 1, 2010 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hmmm...

So on the biggest play of the year, Chilly… “Mr Conservative”, decides to make the biggest gamble possible?

I can understand putting Favre in that situation if we were down by more than three with less than a minute to go. But not when we are tied and close to field goal range.

Regardless of how well he kept the reins on Favre during the regular season (he didn’t) he put the wrong guy in the wrong place at the wrong time and should have known better.

by Bjorno on Apr 1, 2010 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Actually rolling him out was the right call, despite the gimpy ankle

In that situation the (second to last) thing you want to do is take a sack (throwing an INT is the last); you rarely see an NFL QB get sacked on a roll out.
You put the game into the hands of the guy that you gambled your season and cred with you team for.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Apr 1, 2010 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

The roll out was a good call, in any other situation with any other quarterback.

But this is a guy who is known to throw the ill-advised ball in key scenarios.

We were out-coached, not out-played.

by Bjorno on Apr 1, 2010 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

If not for the 5 TO's I might agree with you

But nobody on the coaching staff put the ball on the turf.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Apr 1, 2010 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

True, but the coaching staff did not prepare the team to be playing against a defense that relies on causing turnovers.

That is what the Saints do.

To say the coaching staff is not responsible for the turnovers is like saying the coaching staff is not responsible for knowing what the opposing team will try to do to us and coaching their players on how to prevent it.

by Bjorno on Apr 2, 2010 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

I have to respectfully disagree

The players need to hold onto the damn ball. It was a tight game. The super bowl was in the balance. On two plays in particular, Berrian’s and Percy’s fumble, it was evident that the guys were just fighting for every yard and forgot to protect the ball in doing so. That was a personal choice made by the players; and short of having telepathy and benching both guys before the play happened, it had nothing to do with the coaching staff.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Apr 5, 2010 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

What happens when a certain someone

audibles to a play that doesn’t fit our gameplan? Usually great things. Sometimes not so great things.

by KC612 on Apr 1, 2010 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Was this play an audible? I don’t think so.

When Favre called his plays at the line, things got accomplished. Remember that stretch during the Panthers and Bears game where Chilly said he had control of the team, and Favre wasn’t allowed to audible?

The 6 quarters of football where we scored a total of 7 points?

Then halfway through the Bears game, you notice Favre start to audible and he scores 30 points in less than two quarters?

Yes. Favre knows how to run the offense, Chilly does not.

by Bjorno on Apr 1, 2010 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

these are all plays in the Childress playbook

And the only audibles you have in play each week are the ones that the coaching staff put in your scouting report.

Its not like Favre didnt like the play, called a timeout, drew his own play in the dirt, ran his new play, and scored.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Apr 1, 2010 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Right.

But if you look at the game, it was painfully obvious when we were playing “Chillyball” and when we were not.

I know the audibles are part of Chilly’s playbook. I am sure there are some good plays in there that he has picked up over the years being under Andy Reid. But they don’t seem to know how to use them.

Favre can read the defense when under center, it is a bit more difficult from the sidelines. So when he audibles, he audibles to a play that will take advantage of the defense on the field.

by Bjorno on Apr 2, 2010 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Favre himself said that

he only audibled three or four times all year. Each play call has three options built into it. One pass and two runs or vice versa. What Favre did was check to options that Chilly called in the majority of the season. There were times where Favre got pass happy this year and it didn’t work as well as times that Chilly got stuck on the run and it also didn’t work. Our offense was at its best when we were balanced which was a middle ground between Favre and Chilly. If there is blame for playcalling it falls on Bevell for not finding the happy medium enough of the time.

by CanadianViking on Apr 1, 2010 7:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

+4

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Apr 2, 2010 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

And you believe him?

Honestly?

This game is too complicated for a team to be successful with the plays being called from the sidelines. As I stated before, the QB is in the best position to get a read on the defenses package and formation. The sidelines are not an easy place to read a defense.

The job of a QB is to recognize what the defense is doing and adjusting accordingly. Which means audibling and hot-routing receivers to take advantage of holes in the defense.

If Chilly is not taking advantage of Favre’s view of the field and his EXTENSIVE experience by allowing him to audible to different plays, then Chilly is even stupider than I thought.

by Bjorno on Apr 2, 2010 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

How can we gain a zillion yards and anybody complain about the play calling>

"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp

by lifelongvike on Apr 2, 2010 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Because poor coaching has bit us in the ass in the past, and will only continue to do so.

It doesn’t matter that we were productive last year, we could have Miley Cyrus as our head coach and we would have went 12-4 with that team.

Until he has proven otherwise, Chilly is a bad head coach. Why else would Madden 2010 give him -5 awareness boost for his players?

That was a joke by the way. But it is true.

by Bjorno on Apr 2, 2010 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, he had little reason to lie.

Favre was allowed to check to any of the three plays that were called in to him. Also the west coast offense has multiple routes and run/pass options built into each play call. This is why the WCO often looks terrible if an inexperienced quarterback is running it.

There dispute had nothing to do with audibles or changing plays. It simply began because one guy favors the pass and the other guy favors the run. When we hit the medium ground our offense was fantastic. When we got too pass or run happy it stalled. Four out of five losses occurred when Favre attempted 40+ passes and in three of those five losses Peterson had less than 20 rushes.

Again if there is any fault for only managing to average the second most points per game in the league it falls on Bevell for not bridging the philisophical gap between Favre and Childress.

by CanadianViking on Apr 2, 2010 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, but that is splitting hairs.

Favre said he only audibled three or four times, which may very well be true given your explanation of the system.

But what people were asking him was how often did he run the play as Chilly/Bevell called it or how many times he checked to a different option than was called, which was much more often than 3-4 times.

by Bjorno on Apr 2, 2010 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

My point is that he was allowed to do that and the dispute was largely overblown and centered around the Carolina game. In that game Peterson had 12 rushing attempts and we led 7-6 going into the fourth quarter. Our whole offense was bad but we seemed to abandon the run and ended up losing a winnable game. I think this is where Chilly/Favre clashed because it appeared that Favre tried to win his way and it failed in this game. We only had one more bad half of offense after this game and got back to a balanced approach so I think they worked it out.

by CanadianViking on Apr 2, 2010 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

I have to disagree on the carolina game.

The game was pretty balanced until the 4th quarter when we were down by 7.

It was 17 pass attempts and 14 rush attempts (2 for Taylor). The other 10 pass attempts came late in the fourth when we were down.

Not to mention our time of possession was 22 minutes, so we didn’t even have the ball long enough utilize the run more.

But I get your point.

I remember the clash coming before the Carolina game, so I viewed the Carolina and first half of the Chicago game as Favre playing nice and following orders.

Then it seemed like Favre flipped a switch and scored 30 points in the last 25 minutes of the Bears game.

by Bjorno on Apr 3, 2010 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Actually the coaches in the booth are in the best position

to read the defense.

But I understand what you mean. That’s why intelligence is so important when it comes to the QB position.

I really don’t understand where the complaints are coming from when it comes to Childress and his ability to coach. He’s the best coach we’ve had since Bud Grant, period.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Apr 5, 2010 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Dennis Green just rolled over in his Cadillac.

It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...

by Grime on Apr 6, 2010 8:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

He is who I thought he was

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Apr 6, 2010 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Good Breakdown

I want us to draft an O lineman early for depth or to compete with Hererra and would love to see us get Montario Hardesty as a complement to Peterson. Other than that a developmental QB would be nice as long as we don’t reach for someone. Pretty short wishlist for the offense. Defense will be a much more interesting discussion as we could use depth at all three levels.

by CanadianViking on Mar 31, 2010 4:58 PM CDT reply actions  

I agree we need to upgrade the O-line

We need the holes to open for AD. the offense will be basically unstoppable with both Favre and AD doing what they do.

I say 1st rounder get a Offensive lineman. 2nd round and later round add depth to the Defense.

by dsludo on Apr 1, 2010 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

watched Colt throw today

I live in Austin, so I know all about this guy. I really think The vikes should look at him. He is very accurate and he wins games. He can sit and learn from Brett for a year. It sounds like i’m a homer, but i really feel like this kid will be special. He would fit great in Minnesota.

SKOL VIKINGS 2010!!

by Mr.Cub22 on Mar 31, 2010 5:18 PM CDT reply actions  

Yeah I wouldn't complain if we drafted the guy

But it could just be a knee-jerk reaction to his excellent pro-day throwing. The problem is, other teams are going to see the same proday and also want him. He likely won’t be a first round pick, unless we decide to take him before somebody can in the second, where it becomes highly unlikely we’ll get him unless we trade up. Honestly, I think I’d be okay with them taking him #30 overall. I don’t think it’ll take only a year for him though. I’d rather we have him sit and develop for at least a couple seasons before we throw him out there, ala Aaron Rodgers

by Frost on Apr 1, 2010 4:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Great Fit?

In the post above MB describes the type of QB the Vikings need for an open air cold weather team. Strong arm and physically strong QB. You will notice that Brett Farve meets this description and has done well in our offensive system.

As much as I like Colt McCoy I don’t see him fitting in Minnesota.

"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp

by lifelongvike on Apr 1, 2010 7:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

MB has also cited Brad Johnson as guy we should have kept...

Brad Johnson has never been confused for being strong-armed QB.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Apr 1, 2010 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

That was in the Dome era. Hopefully in a year or two, the Vikings will begin the “retractable roof era.” ;-)

by medicineball on Apr 1, 2010 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Why wouldn't he?

He’s got good touch on the deep bombs and, pre-Favre, that’s what the passing game seemed predicated on. I think he’d be a great fit if we could get him.

by Frost on Apr 1, 2010 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

It’s harder to throw the ball with velocity in the cold, against the wind, or through a cross-wind.

by medicineball on Apr 1, 2010 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

For now, but a quarterback we draft now will spend a majority of his long Vikings career outside.

by medicineball on Apr 1, 2010 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Big hands will be more important than strong arm in that scenario

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Apr 1, 2010 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm a big Colt fan....

I wouldn’t mind this at all. He’s one tough SOB. But I still think we need to pick draft an O-lineman in the 1st. Who knows where he will end up falling…

by dsludo on Apr 1, 2010 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

And besides, we play in a dome.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Apr 1, 2010 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Through the 2011 season, and possibly not that long.

by medicineball on Apr 1, 2010 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

I love your opimism!

But youre right, after winning the super bowl in Feb of 2011, they’ll have no choice but to build a state-of-the-art facility!

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Apr 1, 2010 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

but many of our important

Conference rivalries are out in the cold.

It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...

by Grime on Apr 1, 2010 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

2 per year, max

Sometimes we are fortunate to play at GB before November.

But for arguements sake, then we can’t draft Tebow either. He doesn’t have the best velocity on his passes and he’s used to playing in Florida’s climate.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Apr 1, 2010 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not saying we can or can't draft someone because of this

However, not to at least take it into consideration when you making your decisions is a lack of due diligence.

It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...

by Grime on Apr 1, 2010 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Very Nice description of the offense MB.

That took some time and I appreciate your work. You have laid out a fine argument that out of our 8 draft picks we should target at least two offensive linemen and one QB. I believe a WR should also be taken. This position takes the longest to learn, is easily injured, and great players emerge from the later rounds on a continual basis. I expect the Vikings to get better by increased competition in training camp in all areas this year.

I like your " iron law". It makes sense to me that it will be extremely difficult for any new QB on a team to build SB winning chemistry in one season. Not impossible as Brett proved. I also point you to 1998 and Randall Cunningham’s first year as a Vike. The Vikes might be snake bit but I don’t think your iron rule was the difference in either case.
Coincidence does not a make a rule true.
3 -second year SB QBs. Marino, Roethlisberger, Brady

As a last comment I have to disagree on your thought that Tebow has a weak arm. He might float the ball and not be as accurate in the intermediate throws as one would like, but his arm is not weak. At least from any information I have.

On your guy Sheehan. I have no problem with bringing a guy like this to camp. You never know when the next bolt of lightening might strike. But I would rather get a more sure thing like Clausen. At least I have a 50/50 chance of knowing where the lightening will hit. Unless we take Clausen the QB taken will not be able to start for three years. I don’t think we have that long to wait if we want to keep winning unless we get back on that FA QB train.

"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp

by lifelongvike on Apr 1, 2010 8:18 AM CDT reply actions  

3 -second year SB QBs. Marino, Roethlisberger, Brady

You can add Brad Johnson to the list.

It used to be an “iron law” that dome teams can’t win the super bowl. Well as long as dome teams suck, that will be true. St. Louis, Indy and now New Orleans have busted that myth.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Apr 1, 2010 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

that is if youre counting guys in their 2nd year with a team and not just 2nd year in the league

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Apr 1, 2010 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

NICE LAY OUT BUT FULL OF HOPE AND HOLES

1. QB We must trade a guy before we can draft one. We won’t unload for a rookie .
2 . RB You offer lots of love but Harvin is part of the WR depth and some Heisman
                  candidates will be sitting in the 2nd..
3. FB Big hole in your plan . AD’s best year was behind guess who ? Just asktheJets
4. TE Picking up a veterian in another area could allow a luxery pick here for oft
                  injured Garrett Mills.
5. WR I see two competitive spots here . Maybe a 2nd in UFA with this deep a class.
6. OL Can we move Cook ??? If not we still may pursue up to two positions . The
                  center from Florida and a late round tackle would be the best case.
7. Your injury concerns refer to depth not inability. Simply replacing starters other than at center could be a mistake. My biggest concern is Hutch’s injuries our loss in production was in large part to a dinged up left side that made our run game predictable. I believe that better O-line coaching is the key along with good ole fashion healing…………………

by gothicpurple on Apr 1, 2010 8:54 AM CDT reply actions  

1. 80 roster spots for training camp- Draft first- Trade later. Unload for a “franchise” QB
2. A pro-bowler waiting in the 5th
3. I asked LT and he didn’t know the answer
4. No thanks on anybody oft injured.
5. Only one UFA spot left under the top 8 rule
6. I like a first round tackle ( Davis or Campbell)
7. 2- 1st time starters on O-Line all the way to the NFCCG tells me our coaching is Great.

Don’t mean to disagree on everything but I just can’t seem to find common ground on your thoughts on this one.

"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp

by lifelongvike on Apr 1, 2010 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Pretty sure that 3rd point

was about Tony Richardson… but I could be wrong… and so would he, because Richardson was only here Peterson’s rookie season, and once he was let go, Peterson had his best year, yard-wise.

by Frost on Apr 1, 2010 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

Peterson

Peterson had his best yards per carry average in 2007, as a rookie, working with Tony Richardson. Peterson has had more total yards rushing in 2008 and 2009 without Richardson.

Peterson was great in college without a fullback. When he is used without a fullback, such as in the Bears game, he does well.

by medicineball on Apr 1, 2010 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

In turn

1 – If we draft a QB who can be stashed on the practice squad, we won’t have to unload any of the quarterbacks we have. That’s what I want.

2 – The Vikings could draft a running back

3 – AD was even better in college without a fullback

4 – The Vikings have never drafted a tight end in the first round. Shiancoe is nearly a Pro Bowler, but drafting a Jermaine Gresham could take the tight ends to another level, especially when he would be paired with Shiancoe in two tight-end formations.

5 – Interesting.

6 – I don’t think many teams would give much for Cook. Besides he has value for the Vikings.

7 – Interesting. What do you mean?

by medicineball on Apr 1, 2010 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Darius Reynaud, running back

The Vikings are getting him set up to play some running back behind Peterson and Young.

by medicineball on Apr 1, 2010 2:06 PM CDT reply actions  

My new play

Harvin, Reynard, AP and Tahi line up in the backfield behind Farve. At the snap three swing out for a pass and AP runs up the gut. Its not a WIldcat. Its Foreplay.

"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp

by lifelongvike on Apr 2, 2010 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dude that is a terrible pun

It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...

by Grime on Apr 2, 2010 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thank You, Thank you very much

"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp

by lifelongvike on Apr 3, 2010 6:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wide receiver

Wide receiver is more of a need now that Reynaud has moved to running back.

by medicineball on Apr 22, 2010 4:10 PM CDT reply actions  

draft picks and undrafted free agents

The Vikings have added:

Toby Gerhart, RB
Ryan D’Imperio, FB
Thomas Austin, G
Chris DeGeare, G/T
Matt Hanson, T
Marlon Winn, T
Tommy Hernandez, C
Mickey Shuler, TE
Joe Webb, WR/QB
Aaron Rhea, WR
Ray Small, WR
Kelton Tindal, WR

The Vikings are bringing in Ryan Perriloux, QB for a try out.

by medicineball on Apr 26, 2010 9:04 AM CDT reply actions  

R.J. Archer, quarterback

by medicineball on Apr 28, 2010 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Man that is just a roster full of ugly.

It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...

by Grime on Apr 28, 2010 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

very early unofficial offensive line depth chart

This is just one fan’s view of the depth right now.

ROT – Phil Loadholt, Ryan Cook, Drew Radovich, Marlon Winn
RG – Anthony Herrera, Chris DeGeare
C – John Sullivan, Jon Cooper, Tommy Hernandez
LG – Steve Hutchinson, Thomas Austin
LOT – Bryant McKinnie, Chris Clark, Patrick Brown, Matt Hanson

Many players can play more than one position.

by medicineball on Apr 28, 2010 12:02 PM CDT reply actions  

expectations for the rookies

This comment should be qualified. A player with lower expectations can come from behind and become the starter. That’s what John Randle, Jared Allen, Tony Romo, Kurt Warner, Anthony Herrera, and many other NFL players have done. That said, it might be worth listing some expectations for the rookies.

Gerhart will be the #2 running back whose biggest jobs will be pass protection and picking up first downs and touchdowns in short yardage situations.

DeGeare, Webb, and Shuler could conceivably make the team, and if not are likely to make the practice squad.

The rest are likely headed to the practice squad or will be cut.

Once again, players can surprise. It is possible to break expectations.

by medicineball on Apr 28, 2010 12:18 PM CDT reply actions  

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