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What's Wrong with the Minnesota Vikings?!

Pretty negative approach, but that's what this all about; digging out all the negatives that the Vikings need to look at and address if possible. No smoke being blown up the patootie, this is a no-excuses critique looking at the worst possible scenario of every part of the team. Again, not saying that the Vikings are terrible in any of these assessments, but I'm looking for issues and want to drag them all out. 

What isn't the best that it can be, going into 2010? What needs to be improved?

Star-divide

Let's start with the basics;

Tackling. If anyone's been watching the 2009 games again, one thing that crops up again and again are situations where a Viking defender had the opposing ball-carrier dead to rights, right there, and couldn't seal the deal. Poor tackling on the part of most of the team (excepting Winfield). Madieu Williams and Cedric Griffin were frequent offenders, but the problem also existed on the line with the right-side DEs (Edwards, Robison) quite a bit too. This is something that has to be addressed and worked on when training camp opens, and improved. There's no excuse for lousy tackling in the NFL.

Holding onto the Ball. Oh yes, I'm going there, and I'm looking hard at Adrian 'Butter-Fingers' Peterson. Fumbles and dropped passes really hurt the Vikings last year and arguably kept us out of the Super Bowl. When it comes to passes, Harvin and Berrian need to step up their game and get more serious about hanging onto every ball that comes their way (Sidney did very well in this regard). This is another very basic thing which MUST be addressed and improved going into 2010 if the Vikings are to be serious contenders, instead of heart-breakers. 

Quarterback Situation - The Vikings are living on life-support here. They're hoping that Favre comes back, but what if he doesn't? What if he gets injured halfway through the season, then what? What's behind him? Can the Vikings rely on Jackson and Rosenfels? Everything depends on Favre and that's not the most comfortable place to be.  What will they do after the season when Favre's gone? This isn't a minor issue and it needs to be addressed ASAP.

Running Backs - Adrian Peterson, arguably the best RB in the NFL who just came off down year where he 'only' gained 1383 yards in the regular season, coming in 5th. I think we can agree that he'd've done a lot better if he had better support at the line of scrimmage. The real worry int he running game is what's behind AP? Albert Young? Unproven, untested except in 'garbage time' and he didn't exactly wow anyone. Now Darius Reynaud is being pulled into the position which says something about how confident they are in Young. While Reynaud's been a regular break-away threat on Special Teams, how well will he do going back to his old college position as RB? Who knows. This is not a solid situation and the Vikings need to pay close attention after letting Chester Taylor go.

Full Backs - Tahi and Dugan/Mills playing backup is the current plan, and the Vikings mainly use these guys as supplemental blocking linemen. But wouldn't it be nice if they had a full back who could turn on some speed and had great hands? Someone who could reliably carry the ball on 3rd and short, or brutally pound his way into the end zone on a regular basis. No laurels to rest on here, the Vikes need to constantly be looking for an upgrade.

Wide Receivers - How's Percy's noggin doing? Is he still a prime candidate for Brian Westbrook Syndrome, or has the Mayo Clinic been able to fix him up? Will he be plagued by migraines and miss more games? The Vikings need to get an answer there so they know whether or not the WR corps needs shoring up. How about our recurring running injury machine, Bernard Berrian? Can we expect to see him pull a hammy while running untouched down the field on a regular basis, or was that an aberration, and he'll be saving his injuries for when he's tackled? The man is fragile. 

Tight Ends - While Shanko seems to gotten over the dropsies, we all know that the much beloved 'Sasser is getting long in the tooth. Who's going to be able to step up to those size 28 cleats when the Big Man is ready to hang it up? Dugan? Not likely. Mills? Hardly. This position survives only on the assumption that Jimmy K comes back every year, healthy and hale and ready to plant cleat-in-chest on anyone who is foolish enough to get in front of him, but he's aging and the Vikings need to keep an eye out for some to TE talent in the near future.

Centers - Our longsnapper looks alright but Sullivan is a question mark. Most agree that he should be getting better but the Vikings need someone who can ride point for Adrian Peterson while holding his own, and so far Sully hasn't been that guy. Can the Vikings afford to go on hope that Sully will get better, or do they need to bring in some insurance?

Offensive Guards - Hutch is a rock, but Herrera isn't really 1st string quality, leaving the right side vulnerable. Sure, I've heard Chilly make some expressions of faith in Herrera but faith doesn't win the Lombardi; performance does. Bring in some top talent to the RG position and let Herrera take Hick's old spot as back up.

Offensive Tackles - Loadholt came on like a ball of fire and we have no reason to think he won't be even better in 2010, but what about McKinnie? Long before his planter fasciitis in Dec there were issues and we have no reason to think he'll be better in 2010. The Vikings need to bring in some quality LT talent to push McKinnie and be ready to step up and take his place if McKinnie is injured or has other issues. Right now, clearly we don't have a guy who can do that.

Kickers and Punters - Longwell is still The Man and Kluwe really stepped up his game after having a lot of issues in 2008, but now there's a new guy in the mix; Rhys Lloyd, handling kick-offs. Will he live up to expectation? 

Special Teams - This is the one area the Vikings have which I can't find a real knock on. Maybe someone else can think of something.

Defensive Tackles - While the Vikings have some depth here, the fact is that this will probably be Pat Williams' last year. Behind the Wall are new guys Montomery and Tremaine Johnson, and vets Guion and Jimmy Kennedy. Jimmy Kennedy has done alright but Guion is a career backup. This looks like a cluster-puk, and the Vikings need to keep an eye out for some real talent to develop behind Phat Pat. 

Defensive Ends - Jared Allen rocks but interestingly, the NFL's Viking website roster no longer shows Edwards on the team. This doesn't inspire confidence, but if he stays, the Vikings have Jayme Mitchell and Brian Robison on the depth chart behind them. Are we solid here, or is it dependent on Ray Edwards, RFA, not going anywhere? Remember what happened with Chester Taylor, it's not smart to leave things dangling.

Linebacker Corps - While I pray that EJ Henderson will return alright this year, there's no guarantee of that. And even if he does, will he be up to top form, or will he experience a drop off in talent? Jasper Brinkley looked fairly good in the last part of the year but he wasn't up to par on pass-coverage, and the Vikings absolutely depend on an MLB who can cover the center flat. On the sides, Greenway is proving himself outstanding and Leber is an absolute rock, but let's not forget that Ben Leber is not getting any younger. In theory there's lots of depth with Farwell, Onatolu, and Erin Henderson (if he stays with the team) back there, but those guys are at their best on ST, not the regular D. Leman isn't exciting anyone. The Vikings should keep an eye out for some quality LB talent and grab it if they can. 

Corner Backs - What can you say about a position where BOTH of your 1st string CBs are hurt by injuries? Winfield and Griffin were an very good tandem but now there's question-marks hanging over both their heads. I hope they're back and up to speed, but will they be as good as they were before the injuries? The Vikings have Benny Sapp and Asher Allen waiting in the wings but will either be ready? Sapp's game has improved quite a bit but we haven't seen enough of Allen to be certain that he's ready to step forward. Behind them are a group of ST CBs, none of whom are suitable to play in the regular D. This is an area that the Vikings would be smart to actively pursue some upgrades, just in case. 

Safetys - Tyrell Johnson may step up in 2010 but so far he hasn't discouraged any QBs from throwing in his direction. Madieu Williams, from Cinci, has had a few shining moments but for the most part seems to be focused on ensuring that he's a solid disappointment. He looked pretty good in 2008 but in 2009 he missed a lot of tackles. Jamarca Sanford has shown that he might be able to step up but he's not a proven quantity. This is another position that needs some adjustment help and it might get it from the CB side.

 

The entire point of this is to be negative, to look for likely worse-case scenarios, to hopefully shine some light on things which the Vikings should be looking at and things that they might be looking at which we didn't see before. Things that might make some sense out of the unforeseen choices we're sure to see the Vikings make in the weeks to come. 

If you have any other ideas to add to it, or suggestions of things they need to work on, please toss them out. They can't draft to fix every deficiency and even if they could, they can't afford Pro Bowl level talent at every position. And if there's an FA that the Vikings are eligible to grab, that's certainly worth exploring. 

Poll
Which area do the Vikings need to focus on the most (other than QB)?
Running Backs
3 votes
Wide Recievers
1 votes
Tight Ends
1 votes
Full Backs
1 votes
Offensive Line
66 votes
Defensive Line
1 votes
Corner Backs
82 votes
Linebackers
0 votes
Safetys
20 votes
Special Teams
5 votes

180 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.

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Edwards

hasn’t signed his tender, so he’s technically not on the roster

From the only TRUE North division

by thewild_viking_twins on Apr 4, 2010 9:13 PM CDT reply actions  

Safetys suck!

where was our prized Madieu, nowhere. Trade up and draft Mays!

by muffin man on Apr 4, 2010 9:26 PM CDT reply actions  

Too many missed tackles last year.

Our Safeties were weak. Other than the PO’s, they sucked pretty much all year.
I’m not impressed with M.Williams at all, and I thought T.Johnson would have played much better than he did.
However, I think we need to draft a CB before we draft a S. Winfield is getting old, and Griffen is coming off an injury. Plus we released Paymah, so we need another CB for depth.

by chaosg on Apr 4, 2010 10:17 PM CDT reply actions  

Jamarca Sanford

I wouldn’t mind seeing as a starter….
I think with some game-time experience, Jasper Brinkley should be a great contributor.

I say the focus is O-lineman and CBs
Those are our two major holes (And a QBOTF)…..

Fill those gaps, and we should be a pretty stout team.
We’re not really losing anybody, so far only back-ups (If you assume Edwards signs again).

I think we’ll only be a better team in 2010…. We may not have as great of a record, or, great stat-wise since we could be playing a harder schedule, but we should be a great team once again.

I still think we’re set to battle it with the Packers to take the North..

by Deek on Apr 4, 2010 11:40 PM CDT reply actions  

Quarterback

In the NFL, who is a better backup quarterback than Tarvaris Jackson? Nobody.

So are you saying that the Vikings should bring in another starter right now to compete with Favre for the job?

by medicineball on Apr 5, 2010 6:52 AM CDT reply actions  

No but we can definitely bring someone in who can compete with TJ next year.

Heck I wouldn’t even let TJ compete with the guy. If he wasn’t ready let TJ play if he is get TJ another set of splinter proof shorts.

It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...

by Grime on Apr 5, 2010 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

As a Jackson backer, I’m all in favor of bringing another quarterback in to compete with him. The thing is, it better be somebody good, because he has already out-competed a lot of quarterbacks that the Vikings brought in.

by medicineball on Apr 5, 2010 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

You know, after a while of winning during practice and losing during games you have to think this pony just won't show.

I’ll stop at that. Sorry MB I respect you as a person, but we’ll never see eye to eye on TJ. Personally, I hope he does very well someplace else.

It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...

by Grime on Apr 5, 2010 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Let's see MB...

Now that McNabb is in Washington, Campbell is a better backup than TJack.

Now that Kolb is the starter in Philly, Vick is a better backup than TJack.

Now that Quinn is in Denver, Orton is a better backup than TJack.

Now that Charlie Whitehurst is in Seattle, he’s a better backup than TJack.

Derek Anderson in Arizona is better than TJack. But he’ll probably become the starter so…Matt Leinhart is a better backup than TJack.

Now that it looks like VY has taken his job back, Kerry Collins is a better backup.

Mark Brunell is a better backup.

Chris Redman would give TJack a run for his money.

Just to name a few. But it really is a moot point. It’s like arguing who’s dating the prettier of two ugly sisters.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Apr 5, 2010 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Any of them have 10-10 career record as starters, a track record of success coming off the bench, experience starting a playoff game, more career touchdowns than interceptions, a higher quarterback rating each year he’s been in the league, a cannon for an arm, and quicness on his feet? Well, one does. T-Jack.

On top of that, Jackson has been in our system for four full years. This next season will be his fifth year.

by medicineball on Apr 5, 2010 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well since a few of them were at one time, starters...

I assume that guys like Collins and Brunell have much more wins, experience and touchdowns (it’s Monday, I don’t want to have to look up stats, but I’m sure you’ll agree with those 2).

As for arm strength and quickness, I have to give the advantage to Vick. Derek Anderson also has a reputation for his arm strength.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Apr 5, 2010 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Collins did go to the Superbowl

but he had like 23 fumbles that year so that pretty much negates any good…

It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...

by Grime on Apr 5, 2010 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Campbell meets all those criteria

Except for wins, which is dependent upon his supporting cast.

Even with Tjacks knowledge of the system, I would put Campbell ahead of Tjack. Though not by much.

by Bjorno on Apr 5, 2010 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Gotta disagree with your list.

Campbell is very comparable to Jackson. Shown flashes but remains inconsistent.

Vick pre jail time was better. Now, not so sure.

Orton is still the starter in Denver. Neither Quinn or Orton can complete a pass that travels 25 yards in the air.

Charlie Whitehurst has not thrown an NFL pass in the regular season so who knows how good he is or isn’t.

Did you watch Derek Anderson play since his one good year. Leinart will be him out.

Kerry Collins and Mark Brunell are old as dirt. Collins has a little left in the tank but Brunell is done.

Chris Redman. C’mon man.

Out of your list the only QB’s with comparable skills who aren’t declining are Leinart, Campbell, and maybe Whitehurst. It’s hard to argue that any of these guys would be an upgrade over Jackson. A couple might be as good but definitely not better at this point. Maybe you don’t like Jackson as a starter but as a backup the guy deserves a little respect.

by CanadianViking on Apr 5, 2010 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I guess you didn't get the sarcasm

We talking about backups?

But the reality is, even with declining skills, those guys are more consistent than TJack has ever shown.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Apr 5, 2010 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Missed your last sentence.

I agree that it’s kind of a moot point. I like Jackson and just wish he was more liked by Vikings fans. It mystifies me that he gets so much criticism and that so many fans want to get rid of him at every opportunity. I think our target should be Rosenfels instead. He gets paid about triple what Jackson earns and his biggest contribution to the team is that he holds photos for Favre.

by CanadianViking on Apr 5, 2010 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

I will confess that I was an avid TJack supporter/defender

But that was prior to the 2009 season. 2009 proved what many talking heads had been saying all along…that we were one really good QB away from being great.

My perspective has changed dramatically since seeing things threw the eyes of a fan with a HOF guy at quarterback. I am not saying anything about TJack as a person. He just does not give us our best chance to win. I have been a loyal Vikings fan my whole life, living in the southwest nonetheless, and I feel like I am due for a trophy. TJack will not lead us to the promised land IMO. And until we have a true number 1 for the long haul, TJack is always going to be in the conversation for our number 1…which just does not sit well with me.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Apr 5, 2010 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Okay.

I agree with most of that. I don’t think Jackson has HOF capability in him. I think the only HOF quarterbacks playing right now are Favre, Brady, and Manning. Roethlisberger might have had a shot but his off-field stuff is getting in the way. I guess I’m just happy we have him for now and don’t see any better options at the moment.

If we find that future HOF or franchise QB, than Jackson will go and I will be fine with that. In the meantime we should keep him around and perhaps he will continue his development and be a quality starter for us. I’m not saying he will ever be a top 5 QB but top 15 is possible and would allow us to remain successful.

by CanadianViking on Apr 5, 2010 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

You proved the point- T-Jack isn't worth Sage money to the Vikes.

Please don’t misunderstand. I like TJack. I like Sage. Quality back-ups are paid about 3 Million per year. That’s what Sage is paid. That is not what T-Jack was tendered at. Its not what the fans think of TJack that matter. Its what the staff thinks of Tjack. They think he is dispensable for a 3rd round pick and less money than Sage.

T-Jack has proven himself to be a good Viking. He did what was asked of him. He simply did not succeed. He might given more time. But three years is usually long enough to evaluate whether the potential for greatness is there.

It just is the case with this or any other position on the team. If you can’t play we have to find someone who can.

All this other talk about which back-up is better is just worthless chatter.

"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp

by lifelongvike on Apr 5, 2010 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Aye TJ is a good person

from everything that I can see. He’s handled a bad situation much better and with more maturity than I probably could. (well I might be more motivated to if I there was a million reasons to be cool about it.)

It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...

by Grime on Apr 5, 2010 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

The RFA tenders don't always equate

to what a players value is to a team. Jackson beat out Sage for the backup spot last year but didn’t get an immediate raise because he was already under contract. The RFA tenders are often set at the minimum dollar figure that will likely keep the player with the team. If we tendered Jackson at a first round level we would be just wasting money.

I’m quite sure that Jackson would have signed a new contract last year if Favre hadn’t shown up. Once Favre showed up it was only economic sense to stay under the cap and keep Jackson at a manageable salary. The third round tender is just a starting point for any offers and for future contract negotiations with Jackson.

An example of how meaningless the tender system is would be Tahi. Last year he was tendered with a low contract with only the right to match. Yet we matched a contract of over 1mill to keep him which is more in line with a 2nd or 3rd round tenders salary. Hate to say it but every team in the NFL will pay the minimum amount possible to retain their players. It is very rarely an indication of how they value the player. The player’s value to a team is only discovered when another team attempts to acquire that player or the player is no longer under contract.

by CanadianViking on Apr 5, 2010 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well said. And I would agree in most cases.

But here you are talking about your future Franchise QB. They thought he could be good so they let Thigpen and Booty go. They thought he might be good so they brought in Sage at 3 Milliom per year to compete for the starting job. They knew he wasn’t a franchise guy so they tendered him for a 3rd round pick. You don’t let your franchise guy walk out and test the field. You keep them. You pay them. And you never let them go ( unless your the Eagles).

"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp

by lifelongvike on Apr 5, 2010 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

I guess my point is

that his value to the Vikings is still undecided as no attempt has been made by other teams to acquire him. So, as far as the rest of the NFL is concerned TJ is valued at less than a third round pick with a second round salary(He was actually tendered at the original round level but the rules dictate that compensation is a third because of other 2nd round tender).

My point is that he has more value than Sage and that he will make more money when the Vikings have to pay him but not beforehand. We don’t have to pay him to keep him for now. His value will become apparent when this season is over or Sage is traded. The same argument applies to Ray Edwards. His value to us is more than the salary he is being paid by his current tender. That doesn’t mean we won’t pay him in the future it just means we don’t have to for now.

by CanadianViking on Apr 5, 2010 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, I understood your point.

My point was the progression the Vikes have gone through with TJ. He might very well exceed expectations this year. But I don’t think the Vikes are planning on it.
I’m not trashing TJ. Only pointing out that we have to plan as if he isn’t the Heir apparent to Brett.

"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp

by lifelongvike on Apr 5, 2010 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Okay,

I’m not saying TJ is definitely our future but I’m not ruling him out until we have a better option. We can keep TJ and draft or trade for another QB and let the best QB win.

I got into this thread of conversation by arguing that TJ is a decent backup with some potential and it kind of snowballed from there. We’re not really disagreeing just getting caught up in the hypothetical QBOF debate. I know we both want that QB, I just don’t think having Jackson around precludes him or anyone else being that QB.

by CanadianViking on Apr 5, 2010 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nah your getting stuck in the TJ black hole

Because he is a decent QB, and will be fine as a back up. However, he needs a lot more help to head it up.

Problem is poeples opinions on TJ are pretty polarized. Either you love him or hate him. Not everyone is as even keeled about the man as I am…

So looking for lightning…

It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...

by Grime on Apr 6, 2010 8:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sounds about right

Black whole is exactly what TJ discussions bring about. Circular discussions that slow down as they reach the inevitable inconclusive end.

by CanadianViking on Apr 6, 2010 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

You missed something

Coaching. Play calls, are we doing a good job with Bevell? Is the offensive line coach doing enough in the off season to map out how we need to run that line with a QB like Favre and a RB like AD? Is Fraziers secondary scheme worth a crap? Is Childress really a leprechaun?

QB is the most important issue period. If everyone doesn’t see that then they are nuts. There are several ways to deal with it but this isn’t the place.

OLine/CB is the second in my opinion. O Line could be good this year it’s hard to say. Last year had pretty much half of the line as new players. The other half of the line was in a near constant unjured state. If we can keep the line heathy I think it could take care of itself. Would still like to pick up Fox though.
CB: Yet again if we keep people healthy this year we would be set. If we can’t or they are still injured by the opening of the season we’ll need back up for them. Only problem with a first round CB is what do you do when winfield/Griffen come back to play? Are you going to keep a first round pick on the bench? Nickel him? I know people talk about tossing people into safety but I have to say I’ve never heard Chilly actually say anything about this.

It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...

by Grime on Apr 5, 2010 8:49 AM CDT reply actions  

the #1 need

Have to say this. With Favre, Jackson, and Rosenfels, quarterback is not even close to the #1 need. The biggest need-to-improve areas are DB and o-line. There is a need for depth all around the football team. We do not have the luxury of taking a player who might be ready in a few years with the first round pick now. We need to draft the best player available, not another Brady Quinn.

For everybody who doesn’t think Tarvaris Jackson was a good draft choice, I respect your point of view. But isn’t your main argument that he was drafted too high, just because he was a quarterback? So why would we take Jimmy Clausen (talented but no X-factor and lots of concerns about his emotional maturity), or Colt McCoy (short and throws side-arm and is proven fragile)? Just because they are quarterbacks? We shouldn’t.

We shouldn’t repeat the mistake of ’99, when we had a great team, but drafted a quarterback who sat on the bench for a year, and a defensive end who never played, both in the first round, and then watched as the pass-happy Rams drilled our hapless defense in the playoffs. We need to improve the defense and the o-line. We need some good young talent coming in to reinforce the team at a variety of positions.

There is no quarterback who is worth drafting at the #30 spot when you look at the other players we could get there: Pouncey, Weatherspoon, McCourty, Nate Allen, Taylor Mays, Brandon Ghee, Chris Cook, Kareem Jackson, Brian Price, or Jared Odrick—-somebody we like is going to fall and that somebody can make the team better in 2010.

by medicineball on Apr 5, 2010 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Have to say this. With Favre, Jackson, and Rosenfels, quarterback is not even close to the #1 need.

Maybe not for 2010. But for 2011 and beyond, it’s absolutely #1.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Apr 5, 2010 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

I can’t deny that, but it’s 2010 right now, we have a really good opportunity this season if we can just add some top talent through the draft that contributes this year. The 2010 quarterback draft class is overall poor. The 2011 quarterback class looks intriguing.

Let’s just go this year with Favre & Co., and then look to the draft next year. Meanwhile, we keep T-Jack and Rosenfels as insurance and future investment.

by medicineball on Apr 5, 2010 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

What one player at pick #30 do you see that will take us to the SB in 2010?

Your argument is solid if you really see we are one player away from a SB. I think we were one play away from the SB. If we have no draft pick at #30 we can go to the SB this year. Sometimes the future is worth more than the present. I think the time is now for a SB run and a QBOF.

"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp

by lifelongvike on Apr 5, 2010 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

With Favre at the helm, we are well set to make a run at the super bowl this year for sure.

But, I don’t want our chance at winning to be restricted to only this year. We have a team that can be dominant for at the very least a few years. If we do not address the QB situation now, that window closes pretty quickly.

I am not saying that drafting a QB early is the solution, or even if we do that it will be a guaranteed sup[er bowl; only a guarantee that Favre will not stick around for 4 years.

Whether we draft a QB or find one somewhere else, we need to address this issue NOW.

by Bjorno on Apr 5, 2010 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well my assesment means nothing since I am a football fan, not expert.

But I have to say after looking at scouting reports that I agree that Bradford and Clausen are the strongest possibilities. Tebow and McCoy each have bigger issues but are strong possibilities. All other QBs seem to have many more issues. I like Clausen because he came from a pro style system. None of the other three did. All are accurate (by completion %) and winning QBs. Bradford certainly has the perfect passing motion and touch.

I don’t care who Spielman and Company pick. Just so they don’t pass on the Franchise guy that can win in our system. If they pass on the best QB I hope they keep building the defense until they can get a QBOF. But the time is right if one of these guys fits the bill.

"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp

by lifelongvike on Apr 5, 2010 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well said

It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...

by Grime on Apr 5, 2010 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

I totally agree with your assessment

But I think our current situation affords us an opportunity to grab a guy that we can groom. Look at what GB did with Rogers. Look what Denver tried to do with Tommy Maddox. They had come off successful seasons with their veteran, future HOF QB’s and drafted QB’s that they knew they could sit and groom for the day that their vets were going to retire.

It worked out really well in GB, and not so well in DEN. But the point is this: GB made a bold move and it payed off. DEN made a bold move, it failed, and they didn’t address it again until after Elway retired and now they are playing musical QB’s.

Our success last year and subsequent draft position puts us in a unique situation. If all 22 starters return healthy, we can afford to use one of our top 2 picks on a future starter. And I think QB and even DT (that’s why on my first mock I have us taking Odrick) are prime positions. Beyond Favre, we don’t have any future starters at the QB position.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Apr 5, 2010 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

\

I would rather pick a QB early this draft so we have a 4-5 year window to win rather than a 1 year window to win.

But that is just me.

by Bjorno on Apr 5, 2010 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

For everybody who doesn’t think Tarvaris Jackson was a good draft choice, I respect your point of view. But isn’t your main argument that he was drafted too high, just because he was a quarterback? So why would we take Jimmy Clausen (talented but no X-factor and lots of concerns about his emotional maturity), or Colt McCoy (short and throws side-arm and is proven fragile)? Just because they are quarterbacks? We shouldn’t.

Colt McCoy and Jimmy Clausen are coming out of established football programs. They have played in the spot light. They are household names. Colt McCoy is the winningest QB in college football history. Clausen was considered one of the best QB’s in the nation coming out of high school and now one of the best in the draft. We cannot look at TJack the same way we look at these two.

We shouldn’t repeat the mistake of ’99, when we had a great team, but drafted a quarterback who sat on the bench for a year, and a defensive end who never played, both in the first round, and then watched as the pass-happy Rams drilled our hapless defense in the playoffs.

In hindsight we should have drafted Jevon Kearse in 99 and Drew Brees in 2001. But, we can’t compare the state of the organization in 99 to the current team. Our defense was miserable in 98. Several positions needed to be upgraded. In 2009 on the otherhand, our Defense was solid. We can still look to the draft to upgrade, but not nearly as much as we did in 99. We are a much more complete team now than we were then.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Apr 5, 2010 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Seems a bit short sighted of you MB

We do need a QB. You want TJ to have another go, fine I understand that. I didn’t say we needed to take a QB first although I woudl not be against it. We can trade up in the second to pick up Colt or whoever the brain trust thinks is the man for us. However, and I have said this before but it bears repeating. Football is a lot about luck and the bounce of the ball. You may have the best team ever fielded and you still may not win the game. There is a lot of parity in the top teams and luck if a fickle Btch. If you want to win you have to be able to be able to get back into it. teams (chicago) who only go with a strong surge one season then crash the next only have one shot at it.

I would like to see the Vikes closer to where we were with Green. Every year we were up there battling in the play offs. Sooner or later you have to get in for the win.

Also getting a QB is a lot like a lottery. It’s risky, however this saying holds true to both. Odds in winning either are pretty steep, odds of winning if you don’t play? Zero.

It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...

by Grime on Apr 5, 2010 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Come on dog !!!!!!!

This draft will answer half your questions . Last year had a cake walk schedule and few lost players . Get ready for a much rougher ride this time around . We had several dinged up guys and you call them bad tacklers . We had concussions and you call them washed up and needing replaced . Madeau could have had a career ending injury and because he can’t heal in three weeks you call him weak . I’m in my 40’s and I’d love your scraunny but to line up with me on some simple contact drills for about 3 hrs a day and for about 16 weeks . Oops hit a nerve ! After about the first 16 minutes of the first week you will be tellin’ mommy , GONZO , and the gang that you are too sore to come out and type today !!!!!!! There 6-5 and 300 plus . Imagine how they feel but don’t worry cream puff Dr. Gothic will be here

    without a proper paragraph to type you a simple recipe for what’s achin’ ya $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ & out………..

by gothicpurple on Apr 5, 2010 8:53 AM CDT reply actions  

I'm going to have to disagree

with the addition of Harvin in your post. He fumbled the ball once from what I can remember at the worst possible time, but other than that was very clutch for us on third downs especially.

by KC612 on Apr 5, 2010 8:58 AM CDT reply actions  

Edwards on the team

the NFL’s Viking website roster no longer shows Edwards on the team.

Probably because he hasn’t signed his RFA tender. Technically, he is not under contract with the Vikings right now, he is a restricted free agent.

by medicineball on Apr 5, 2010 9:05 AM CDT reply actions  

Useful skepticism

This reads as a “glass half-empty” post but that’s not the point. It’s useful to have a devil’s advocate, or to take a skeptical look at things.

Under that scrutiny, the team holds up well, but there is a lot of needs for more depth and even better play out of the starters all over the team.

This is why I think we should either make the eight draft picks we have, where we have them, or trade down to get an additional draft pick or two. There appear to be some weak points. As a perennial optimist, I think a guy like Erin Henderson or J Leman or Farwell can step up should Ben Leber need to be spelled during the year, but yeah, if we could draft a linebacker maybe we’d be better off in that situation.

by medicineball on Apr 5, 2010 9:09 AM CDT reply actions  

the hole point

is to find the whole problem or potential “holes” in the team. With that being said it did seem that the ST’s were better, but we did give up a lot of long yardage kick returns last year.

it is better to be thought of as dumb then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
Ben Franklin

by montana vikes fan on Apr 5, 2010 9:44 AM CDT reply actions  

negative Post with Positive Implications

I appreciate your bravado in attempting a post where you take a negative view. Often times in life we all should all do a true review of our life or businesses. A football team should be no different. Thanks for the review.

But here is the positive. You have described a team with few major problems.

1) Skills- You point to tackling and fumbling as issues. These are basics that are taught and learned in each training camp and through the year. Replacement is not the answer. Good coaching is the answer.

2) O-Line- Really now. If I told you last April that we would start two new O-Lineman and be one play from the SB. What would you have said? O-Line is not a problem that time together and the usual upgrading of the back-ups will not cure.

3) De’s- two top sack leaders in the NFL. Enough said

4) DTs- Age is not good for production. When Pat retires we will be young again.

5) DBs- I don’t mean to make excuses but when no one can run against you the secondary does get picked on. Big contract FAs that don’t perform always get everyone riled up. But the secondary is pretty young. Injuries are hindering us. This does look like the place to change strategy, players, scheme, or something.

6) QB- We are not like other teams. Our QB is on his last year. We have no SB QB in the wings. Period. End of Discussion. We Must get the future now.

I reviewed all of the Super bowl winning teams. It becomes apparent when looking at the QBs that eras exist. The Bart Starr era, Montana era, Bradshaw, Tarkenton, Kelly, on and on. Few individual QB performances exist like a Johnson or Gannon.
We need a new Era. A Viking Era. I don’t care if its a Tebow, Bradford, or Clausen Era. But we need a new QBOF to start that Era.

"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp

by lifelongvike on Apr 5, 2010 9:53 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

taking a critical look is not negative or skeptical

i would call your post taking a critical look, not negative or skeptical, bravo. you are asking people to be realists, which is going against the grain, like as saw! i agree with most of your assessments and a lot of the replies, here is my two cents.
my biggest areas of concern are:

offensive line – this includes roster personel, coaching and blocking strategy. if we have a star qb/grandpa to protect and a stud running back who should gain 2000 yards, then why do we need a fullback and kleinsasser almost exclusively used as blocking band-aids? we should get the personel and game plan designed to win the battle at the line of scrimmage, IMHO.
i would like to see us acquire a stud right guard and a veteran tackle who can teach loadholt and push mckinnie, and take over his spot if necessary.

defensive backs – this is a big weakness and gets exploited. get darren sharper back! trade mildew williams, and trade for asomugha (berrian, sage & 2011 3rd round pick?). draft a big safety who likes to hit hard (like a brian dawkins type).

quarterback – i’m not sold on either mcoy or clausen and wouldn’t move up for clausen. but i could see making a minor move (up 10 picks in second round) to get mcoy if available. i think he would be a great back up and maybe a decent starter in nfl after 2 years back up with good development-coaching.

draft – drafting 30th in first round is difficult to plan for, i think target a few players from 15th to 40th that fit o-line and d-back needs along with attractive player-type traits for system. then be prepared to make a draft day trade to get one or even two of those guys by trading up or even down. ( some players i like for 1st-2nd round from scanning the draft boards who might be reachable…taylor mays, iupati, markice pouncey, bruce campbell, morgan burnett, mike johnson, chad jones, comments?)

by jethrophet on Apr 5, 2010 1:47 PM CDT reply actions  

why do we need a fullback and kleinsasser almost exclusively used as blocking band-aids? we should get the personel and game plan designed to win the battle at the line of scrimmage, IMHO.

Its a simple matter of numbers. If the defense loads the box with 7 or 8 defenders, we have to keep a TE and FB in to block and hope the RB makes one man miss. It’s even more crucial on pass plays.

But I agree, we need better Oline play in 2010. I am hoping with a year under their belts that both Sully and Loadholt will be much improved.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Apr 6, 2010 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Solid O-line can't hurt

When thinking back on last year’s defeats, it seems like it was always the pressure on Favre that got us into trouble. Face it, Favre and the Vikings had a magic season with plays like the TD pass to Greg Lewis against San Francisco with two seconds left. Will the magic return next year? A great performance by the offensive line will make that more probable.

Since the Vikes made the playoffs in 2008, you know the talent is there.

Hey jethrophet. Are we related?

by JethroBoViking on Apr 5, 2010 1:51 PM CDT reply actions  

If this were my Madden franchise…

by Bjorno on Apr 5, 2010 2:32 PM CDT reply actions  

Why so negative?

"He didn’t call me or anything. It was an accident, but a lot of people would have called to see how someone is doing after they got hit in the head. Especially if they had to go on the DL." — Morneau on pitcher Ron Villone after an April 2005 beaning.

by Gonzo2 on Apr 5, 2010 5:22 PM CDT reply actions  

Because we're Viking Fans

As such, we love our team, we love most of our players, we tend to see the best in them. We’re the ones who scream triumphantly in our living rooms when ANY Viking player makes a key tackle or goal line stop. Sometimes, in our fandom and homerism, it’s hard to see where real problems might be. We want to think the best of our team and it can sometimes make us overlook issues.

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Apr 6, 2010 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

There is no problem

The problem doesn’t exist when you realize this then you will be unbound and unfettered in your freedom.

It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...

by Grime on Apr 6, 2010 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

There is no glass

Forget about half-empty or half-full…. :)

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Apr 7, 2010 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

zen on glass blowing

simply keep an opening on both ends of the vessel and the current flow never ceases

"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp

by lifelongvike on Apr 7, 2010 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

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