QB Carousel Continues to Turn
by Ted Glover on Apr 6, 2010 3:31 PM CDT
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PrintWith the trade of Donovan McNabb to the Washington Redskins, the QB options for the Minnesota Vikings in the event of the now-apocalyptic scenario of Brett Favre really…REALLY retiring have been drastically reduced. I have been an advocate of getting another Quarterback of the Future (QBOTF) since Tarvaris Jackson is the Quarterback of the…present, Sage Rosenfels is the Quarterback That Can’t Catch a Break, and there is no third string guy right now, if, you know. But let’s say, for the sake of argument, that the Vikings trade either Jackson or Rosenfels. I don’t think it will happen, but let’s just say Rosenfels to the Raiders actually did happen, and that leaves Jackson as the only QB on the roster. And then we’ll assume that the Vikings also draft a QB to hold a clipboard for a year. Let’s look at some current free agent options the Vikings might kick the tires on. And these are just a few, off the top of my head. If you have a better suggestion, let’s hear it.
Jason Campbell—The Washington Redskins think so highly of Jason Campbell that he found out about the Donovan McNabb trade via the Redskin beat writers. Ouch. Campbell seems about as welcome in Washington as Nancy Pelosi at a Tea Party Rally, and I can’t see him as a Redskin for much longer. His career stats are pretty unremarkable, but he’s also played on some pretty average offenses, a high coaching turnover rate, and an owner who’s insane. He’s had flashes of pretty good, but in four years has only one 300 yard passing game and 7 4th quarter game winning drives. So for all the below average talent around him, save Clinton Portis, he’s been a little bit better than expected. Could he develop into a top QB with the offensive talent around him in Minnesota?
Marc Bulger—Now, those of you who are loyal readers to the Daily Norseman might find my placement of Marc Bulger, late of the St. Louis Rams, as blatant hypocrisy based on my comments about Tye Hill. See, I argued that the Vikings should avoid Hill, because he got cut by a crappy team, and if he wasn’t talented enough to play for the Rams, he wasn’t with the Vikings. And yeah, Bulger got cut by the same crappy team, but I think there’s still some talent left in him when compared to the post-apocalyptic Vikings QB landscape. When surrounded by comparable talent like he would have in Minnesota, Bulger flourished. If you remember, he supplanted Kurt Warner as the Rams starter (something many Rams fans still aren’t over) and was in the Pro Bowl in 2006, where he had 1,000 yard receivers in Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce, and a workhorse RB in Stephen Jackson. He’d have a similar set up in Minnesota. He has cratered over the last three years as the Rams have bottomed out, leaving them with minimal NFL talent. He has a strong, accurate arm, but has been shell shocked and battered behind a line with more holes in it than the Maginot.
Daunte Culpepper—Almost a zero chance of this happening, but I thought I’d throw it out there. Daunte was the best Vikings QB in quite awhile, but the Love Boat and his bizarre behavior following his knee injury has tainted his legacy. Sometimes, you can go home again, but I think it’s best if we remember the good times and pass on DC. And he’s been terrible since he left Minnesota, anyway. His knee injury robbed him of his mobility, and he never developed as a feared pocket passer. I really do wish him well, because I liked how he played the game, but I think he is done as a starter in the NFL.
Chad Pennington—Chad Pennington has been the Rodney Dangerfield of NFL quarterbacks. Other than his first few years in New York, he never got any respect, but he’s been a consistent winner wherever he’s gone. The big drawback on Pennington is his injury history, which has lead to reduced arm strength. If you go after Pennington, you’re essentially getting a younger version of the 2006 Brad Johnson. His inability to throw long limits the playbook, and it might make the 2006 offense look like a combination of a Sid Gillman and Don Coryell stepchild. Personally, if Pennington is healthy, he might be worth a look. But I doubt his ability to stay healthy for a 16 game season.
I think it’s a done deal that Favre comes back, and I see the Vikings quarterback situation for 2010 the same as it was for 2009. But if Favre does retire, it really puts the team in a pickle foe the 2010 campaign, and if I had my druthers, I’d like the non-Favre QB scenario to be Jackson-Rosenfels-as yet to be drafted rookie. If they trade either Rosie or Jackson, I’d prefer it be Rosenfels, because I think Jackson is the more talented, and I’d like the roster to be Jackson-Bulger-as yet to be named rookie.
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Umm Yeah
If Brett Favre retires, Trade TJACK and keep Rosenfels as back up (again, i know, unfair to him, but life is not fair).
1. Bulger (released, wouldnt cost that much seeing that he was fired by a horrible organization who should fire itself).
2. Campbell-Redskins dont have much leverage being that Campbell found out about the McNabb trade from a high school beat writer pretty much signifies they ahve to ship him out no matter the price. He was the victim of a horribly run franchise that happens to be run by a billionaire nerd who never played a down of football in his life.
3. Culpepper- Loved loved loved him with the Vikings. Will never forget what he did with my Vikings. His freak injury did cost him his mobility, but im pretty sure he still has that rocket arm (and his ability to get “HIS ROLL ON!”). Will never happen since Chilly and Culpepper had a falling out. Would be nice for him to come home.
4. Chad Pennington-Loved him at Marshall (along with The Freak, Rnady Moss) but the guy cannot throw an out pattern. Why cant he throw an out pattern?? because this requires arm strength. I can assure you that even I could out throw him (maybe not, but it would be close). We dont need two guys holding clipboards.
So QB Depth Chart 2010 Season;
1-Favre
2. Sage
3. Draft Colt McCoy
Skol Vikings!!
If
If Sage cannot even surpass Tjack on the depth chart, even though we gave up a pick for him, why would we want him over Tjack?
by Bjorno on Apr 8, 2010 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sage
couldnt surpass Tjack because he was new to the offense the Vikings run. The Texans run a modified WC offense. TJACK having been in the offense for a couple years meant that he definitely was the backup to Favre. I think TJACK is more enticing in a trade. We spent a draft pick on Sage.
Skol Vikings!!
Bulger would be my pick as well
unless Pennington was up to snuff. Hell we can pull Jeff George out of retirement I think he was making a bid for it last year… Campbell and TJ in the back field would be a mess two QB’s with no self confidence. Pretty sure that’s a recipe that spells suck.
No matter what we draft a QB and work on him as fast as we can.
Or we can give Kurt Warner 12 million and pray to pull him out. GOD DANGIT THIS SUCKS!
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
If Favre retired...
And we pulled Warner out of retirement… That would be insanely crazy!!!!
And very very very weird…
It's not in the Cards
Sorry for the bad pun but that about right. I’m positive the Cards offered him max to come back but he’s had enough. He took some nasty hits last year and probably doesn’t have the fire in his belly for any more punishment. He’ll just wait for his call from Canton and do analysis in the meantime.
Bulger or Campbell
I’m sure we can get Jason for a second. I always thought Bulger would be better if he had some protection. Not sure if he’d get much better protection in Minny though
I am pretty sure the asking price for Campbell is goIng to be more like a 4th round that could escalate.
by Bjorno on Apr 6, 2010 5:13 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Tops
Can’t see Campbell being worth more than that
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
idk
former first round, we have a late 2nd. He still has potential, are you saying he is worth less than Sage Rosenfels? We traded a mid-4th for him
That is what I would assume the asking price is, though I would not be surprised if he was traded for a 3rd.
Agree with Bjorno
as of right now, the Redskins have 4 QBs on the roster and they still may draft a QBOTF in the 1st round. So we could hold out and wait, and maybe get him for a swansong
by midnightwonder on Apr 7, 2010 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions
a 3rd seems high atm
the market seems fairly depressed these days. Maybe a 4 and a 6?
I may be old but I... oh d*mn, I forgot what I was going to say.
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Apr 8, 2010 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd give a 4th for Campbell, no more than that.
McCourty will do. If the Packers don't take him first... they would.
Bulger might be finished, but St.Louis has been terrible so it is tough to say.
I would rather have given up a 4th for Campbell than get Bulger for free.
McCourty will do. If the Packers don't take him first... they would.
Favre 2 more years.......
Draft Tebow in the 1st round, and work with him for 2 years. The guy is a winner and a leader. I am confident he will be top notch in 2 years…..then watch out!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, 100% Guaranteed!
No way you waste a 1st rounder on Tebow
Believe me, as much as I hate Tebow, he would fit perfect for the Vikes
BUT
His “new” throwing motion didn’t impress anyone and honestly, there are way more important positions we need to address before QB. DT, G, CB, and maybe even RB in the wake of the loss of Chester. Tebow will be available in the third-fourth round, so if we HAD to get him we trade Sage to Oakland for their draft pick and move up. However, I think Tony Pike is a little more realistic, and if I had it my way, we wait and next year do whatever we have to do to get Jake Locker and hire the newly retired old gun slinger as the QB coach…hahaahahaha
Favre-Jack-Sage -- Favre-Jack-Pike/Tebow -
+1 on Skelton.
He looks good just doesn’t have the hype of the rest. He could be taken in the fourth or fifth so the Vikes wouldn’t be giving up a lot. I’m afraid if they take a QB in the 2nd we miss out on a DL, OL(especially G) that could improve the team. I don’t think my boy McCoy is going to be around late in the 2nd anyway.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again Herrera was(horrific at times)) the weakest link on the O-line and needs to be replaced.
McCourty will do. If the Packers don't take him first... they would.
Tebow will lead the 2012 Vikings to 19-0 and a Super Bowl Championship, GUARANTEED!!!
If you can't laugh at yourself... Who can you laugh at?
The Packers, that’s who.
-- The almighty Manimal
by TheViking83 on Apr 7, 2010 12:49 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Are you related to....
REVENGE4FAVRE???
I totally see the relation if you are…
haha
if I had my druthers, I’d like the non-Favre QB scenario to be Jackson-Rosenfels-as yet to be drafted rookie.
Well … that is basically the scenario that almost everyone here claimed to be happy with all last summer, and especially at the end of July when Favre “decided.” Except that there was Booty was in place of the new draftee.
Well, until Favre came on board
there really wasn’t much else to root for, except that the competition with Rosenfels would bring out the best in TJ, and if the Vikings land Tebow or McCoy, that’s a significant upgrade over JDB.
"We're used to Favre-a-palooza now. We're engulfed in Favre-a-palooza. It's not even Favre-a-palooza anymore. He's family now."
--Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe, on Brett Favre
are we being too distracted with QB sit?
Isn’t the IMMEDIATE problem running backs, or figuring out why AD wasn’t quite living up to expectations last year, or replacing Chester? Oh yeah, I am not a long time Vikings fan that kinda got immersed in this we got the past back in the NFL so thank god we don’t ever have to worry about THAT again. Favre’s coming back next year….Childress is chilled…totally not worried about the Brett thing…so next year it seems to me we should try to figure out what to do about the running game.
I don't think so,
but QB is the most intriguing position. I don’t think anyone disagrees that there are other issues, but they’re all relatively minor compared to the biggest ‘what if’ scenario facing the team.
And really, until the draft, there’s really nothing else to talk about.
"We're used to Favre-a-palooza now. We're engulfed in Favre-a-palooza. It's not even Favre-a-palooza anymore. He's family now."
--Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe, on Brett Favre
Yes and NO
No reason to worry about the QB right now. It’s Favre, TJ, Sage……but Sage may be dealt, then we pick up another so-so guy. TJ is fine, I want to see what he can do now that the pressure is off and he’s had a season to LEARN!
RB is a non-issue. AP is fine, it is the O-Line that STUNK! The issues I have with AP are ball control and dancing. 1 cut then GO is where he needs to focus.
Our position NEEDS are CB and DT since I doubt they’ll focus on O-line like they should. These projects just aren’t working out. There are only 2 studs, I’ll let you pick them (pretty easy picks).
Agreed.
O-line improvement helps everybody perform better. I’m okay with our quarterback situation as it stands. I like picking somebody to develop much more than I do trading way up to grab Clausen or drafting McCoy or Tebow in the first. I could handle McCoy in the second round but don’t want to reach for him.
If the prospect invite list means anything it looks like we’re looking O-line with our first pick and CB with our second or third. Four out of the five O-lineman invited are first to early second round prospects so I think that is a good sign. Most of the CB prospects are second to third round guys and four out of the six are CB/S prospects. Perhaps they’re trying to kill two secondary birds with one stone.
by CanadianViking on Apr 7, 2010 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Grandpa Favre...
Another NFL first to fall this year…
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Apr 6, 2010 9:39 PM CDT reply actions
I’d have to go with Campbell. My roommate is an avid Redskins fan and since those are the only games I get on TV, I got to see a lot of Campbell this year. What did I see? He didn’t have enough time to make decisions. The offensive line in front of him this year was deplorable at best. Give him an offensive line that does better than your average matador and I think he puts up decent numbers.
Pirates, Vikings, Hokies. I'm used to heartbreak. At least I have the Penguins....
"When I put on my uniform, I feel I am the proudest man on earth."
-The Great One
by blackjackfishtaco on Apr 6, 2010 10:52 PM CDT reply actions
I should clarify. That’s assuming Favre doesn’t come back. But we all know he is, so I decided to not mention the possibility he won’t.
Pirates, Vikings, Hokies. I'm used to heartbreak. At least I have the Penguins....
"When I put on my uniform, I feel I am the proudest man on earth."
-The Great One
by blackjackfishtaco on Apr 6, 2010 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Favre
is returning so he can be the first NFL’s grandfather. Plus he has to win that 2020 MVP trophy somehow….
Ski-U-Mah!
by CrazyCollegian on Apr 7, 2010 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions
I also like Campbell.
I think he’s got a lot of talent. He’s a lot like T-Jack, but more composure.
by i_am_pure_barbarian on Apr 7, 2010 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions
I concur
Give Campbell a chance.
Ski-U-Mah!
by CrazyCollegian on Apr 7, 2010 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions
IMO Campbell and tjack are mirror images why do we need two of them let’s all quit worrying about qbs for the next two weeks it seems like we all (myself included) want what we don’t have. We know our team is great jc isn’t going to make it better if anything he would replace sage but even then why replace a benchee for a benchee. Spielman and Co. know to do i know they read the Norseman haha
by Tswing on Apr 7, 2010 12:42 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
I think he would replace T-Jack if we traded T-Jack for draft picks.
Ski-U-Mah!
by CrazyCollegian on Apr 7, 2010 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Think About It
If Vikings were confident that TJack was QB of the future they would have not traded for Ronsefls, nor would they have wanted Favre to come in…Sooo, since that was last year, nothing has changed and TJack is still not the QB of the Vikings future.. He had his chance and can not read NFL defenses….ENUFF SAID ….Therefore, with FAVRE coming back, as we all know, it is time to draft the QB of the future…and that is McCOY.,,He is considered to be a west coast QB…Yes, we need CB, OL, SS, LB, but we also need someone to lead the team into the future and I feel McCoy is that leader
Think About It, If Vikings were confident that TJack was QB of the future they would have not traded for Ronsefls
There is a difference between confident (believing it true), and foolhardy (believing it to be too SO strongly that you refuse to admit the possibility that it might not be true, and don’t even have a contingency plan in place). Not to mention, even if it is true, you still have to make contingency plans for injury to TJ. Given that Sage is a 33 year old career backup, signing him strikes me (and most other people, I think) as more of the “contingency” approach I write of, than the “lack of confidence” move you see.
I don't think so
Not to mention, even if it is true, you still have to make contingency plans for injury to TJ. Given that Sage is a 33 year old career backup, signing him strikes me (and most other people, I think) as more of the "contingency" approach I write of, than the "lack of confidence" move you see.
You don’t give a 4th round pick up for a back-up QB. You don’t promise an opportunity to compete for the starting job to a back-up QB. TJ was a question mark. He had already shown he didn’t have the flash. Can he get it? Sure. But it looks a lot less likely.
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
You don’t give a 4th round pick up for a back-up QB.
If that is true, then …. are you saying you can get a starter-quality QB in the NFL for a 4th round pick?
Even the Jets had to give up a likely 2nd-3rd round pick for a starting QB that they knew was no more than a stopgap (one to two years), and probably the only reason they got him that cheap was because the Packers had to unload him, and now, and believe needed for PR reasons to dump him as far away from Green Bay as possible.
Given that KC had to give up a #34 pick for Matt Cassell at the same point in time we gave up #122 in that same draft to get Rosenfels, you think this guy that had already been on 4 other teams and never won a starting job was really that was a strong contender to be a starter here? Sorry, don’t buy that. I think he was merely meant to be a better Plan B than Gus. Or, since it is TJ we are talking about, maybe we should call him Plan A2.
p.s.
Looking at the example of Favre again as a comparison … even going back to the other end of his career, when he was an absolute train wreck his first year in Atlanta, the Falcons still forced GB to give up a first rounder for him. So, another argument that you have to give up a lot more than a 4th rounder for a guy that has much expectation to start for you.
No, I mean that you can get a capable back-up without a 4th round pick.
You go out and solicit a QB from a team because he looks special to you. Sage wasn’t a free agent. We went after him. To compete as a possible starter. If Sage had not had the one absolutely awful game, where he lost the game single handedly, many believe he could have challenged as a starter where he was.
It was a good move for the Vikes. A possible starter and a great experienced back-up. Sage just didn’t perform like they hoped last year. It happens.
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
1st Choice
1. Favre wiil be back
2. Jackson remains as back up with a contract extension
3. Trade Sage for a 4th/5th round future draft pick
4. Draft Tebow and groom him for 2012
The Quarterback question
If the Vikings are planning on drafting a QBOF then any set or combination of QBs can get us through for a year or two. At the earliest we won’t start a new QB for at least one year. I would hope that we wouldn’t have to start a Rookie drafted in 2011 in the 2011 season. Time on the bench still has proven to be the best method of developing a QB.
Campbell is interesting. He has had a different coordinator for all but one of his pro years and college years combined. He has never run a WCO. He is a slow decision maker and does stare down his receivers. He isn’t as fast as TJ and arm strength is about the same. Is he better? Probably not since he doesn’t know the system and has been shell shocked his entire career.
Bulger is probably through. He has suffered severe injuries and just seems to old to bounce back. He might be serviceable but really isn’t T-Jack or Sage serviceable? Now he does have the last gasp potential but I wouldn’t count on it.
Who hasn’t failed yet.
Kyle Orton- Tendered for a first round pick by the Denver Broncos. Took his Chicago team to the Super Bowl with Grossman injured. Come on. At least make him an offer.
Troy Smith (RFA), QB, Ravens. Age: 26. — Tendered by Ravens (5th round)
Brett Ratliff (ERFA), QB, Browns. Age: 25. Mangini brought him over from the Jets. Why? There might be a reason. Might be tradeable with the Delome signing
Kellen Clemens (RFA), QB, Jets. Age: 27. — Tendered by Jets (2nd round)
Josh McCown, QB, Panthers. Age: 31.
John Beck (RFA), QB, Ravens. Age: 29. — Tendered by Ravens (2nd round)
Gibran Hamdan (RFA), QB, Bills. Age: 29.
Todd Collins, QB, Redskins. Age: 38.
If your QBOF isn’t in this group then We had better concentrate on the draft. Either this year or next. This year is better. Keep T-Jack and Sage. If one of the top 4 draft QBs don’t appear to be the QBOF then take a project QB late in the 5th round. Build the pieces and take that QB whenever you find him.
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
failure is relative to the circumstances
i like your list of who could we consider at this point. but i wouldn’t call it “who hasn’t failed yet”.
you could call kellen clemens a failure, because he couldn’t beat out a rookie underclassman with only 16 games of college experience.
i wouldn’t say that, because i think he is the guy on your list that i like the most. i like him more than sage rosenfels. some other guys that fit into your list could be kyle boller, rex grossman and brodie croyle, t. edwards.
but, of all those guys, i like jason campbell a little bit more. i don’t think he was a failure, i think he was in a bad situation with poor coaching, rotating coaching, poor o-line and most importantly, he was asked to learn and re-learn a couple of offensive systems. and, the system they ran last year does not fit his strengths as a qb. he is a drop back pocket passer, better suited to vertical game as opposed to the west coast game. so, i think the perception of him gets skewed by the circumstances that were out of his control. can our system adapt to take advantage of him?
i also think that t-jack gets a similar bad rap. he got thrown in the deep end way too soon. he needed more development. chilly and co. did a bad job handling the qb situation. they got lucky last year when they “hit the pinata” with favre, after a couple of swings. but just like candy, it’s a short lived sugar rush.
i think the questions are, which of these quarterbacks can fit our system? can our system adapt to the skills of a particular qb? and/ is the coaching staff willing to put together a cohesive stable of qb’s that have similar skills/traits that allow the game plan to remain intact if we need to substitute?
my humble thoughts…
tavaris jackson – keep him / good qb ready to step in, familiar w/ system, good skills, good athlete, on the roster.
sage rosenfels – willing to trade him / package him to clear roster spot and get other needs filled.
jason campbell – worth the effort to get / good game experience, good skills, something to prove.
marc bulger – nahhh / good game experience, good skills, on the downside, injury affected, older.
pennington – can’t get / already signed for two years w/ miami, older, bad shoulder, weak arm strength.
kellen clemens – okay / decent potential, unproven, younger, could compete to make the starter better.
colt mcoy – if he drops / rookie with good college experience, is not strong armed, has some potential
jimmy clausen – if he drops / rookie with good college experience, is not strong armed, has good potential
tim tebow – not sure / is a project, but a natural leader and strong will to win, could make a nice linebacker too!
lefevour – i’d rather keep sage.
i don’t see a qbotf available this year in draft, trade or free agency. but, we can better position the team for the near future and should do so without giving up more than a 2nd, 3rd or an expendable roster player.
...the game serves us, it has a definite social purpose. in the future there will be no war...there will only be Rollerball.
My gut says the guys milcard listed will be available after the draft
So we can wait until then to make a decision. If we don’t land McCoy or LeFevour, we can trade TJack or Sage for a conditional pick in 2011 and go after Bulger or Pennington.
1. Favre
2. Pennington/Bulger
3.McCoy/LeFevour
4.TJack/Sage
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
I would like to see what Campbell can do
if he had good talent around him. I dont think tjack will ever be able to handle the pressure. I just don’t think mentally he will ever mature enough to thrive on the pressure. Some guys love it other guys want to run from it. i think Favre thrives on it. That is why he is so much fun to watch.
by just another viking on Apr 7, 2010 9:49 AM CDT reply actions
We Already Have a 'Jason Campbell'
His name is Sage Rosenfels. Same talent level, same potential to be a first string QB one day… if he ever gets his act together. And our ‘Jason Campbell’ is already paid for. We don’t need another.
2010
1 – Fahv-rah
2 – T-Jack
3 – Draftee/Rosenfels
Maybe keep Rosey another year if possible to find a spot on the roster, but a trade would be smarter. Get some more juice out of the draft.
On that draftee…. top rated QB, period. Grab him. And later, if available, try to pull in Skelton as a long-term project guy.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Clearly you don't know your history
battered behind a line with more holes in it than the Maginot.
The Maginot technically didn’t have any exploited weaknesses. Technically, it was never punctured. Instead, the Germans just went around it through the Ardennes and stormed France from its undefended border with Belgium. After eventually taking Paris, the Germans simply attacked the Maginot from behind, the opposite direction the batteries where pointed in.
I hate to sound like a geek but, well, I’m a geek.
Beautifully explained
I never knew ( not sure I cared) what the Maginot line was. Thanks for the education.
Is there a football play in there somewhere? To do a Maginot a player would have to take the ball the wrong direction and score for the other team…. Crap, the Vikes invented that play.
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
by lifelongvike on Apr 7, 2010 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Keeping it related to “lines” of defense, why not equate it to an O-line?
In football, I suppose a “Maginot Line” could be an O-line that is technically sound and stout up the middle but can’t handle the outside pressure.
Sorry, next post is for you Jay
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
Sorta like the way DEs go around McKinnie to Hit Favre?
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Yes, your right.
I simply was replaying a Viking historical moment in my head.
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
Care to explain??
HAHA .. For some reason all I can think of is this recent video of a fellow teammate tackling his own player with the ball in this video on youtube. Thankfully, it wasn’t a professional game (High-School game). Talk about embarassing, haha..
On a side note, I remember in basketball during a game I remember one of my friends had just rebounded a ball and attempted to put it back up towards the basket realizing it was the other teams basket.. Luckily, he missed.. But imagine how embarassing that was regardless.
"Wrong-Way Marshall"
Some say that’s the play that keeps Jim Marshall from getting into Canton… Maybe so, but it still doesn’t seem fair.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
choices
Of all the ones out there C-pep is the worst choice! Be real if you walk into a qb job wirh CC,Jake, & “The Freak” you will look good even though you can’t read a pro defense.
My thought is even if Brett returns you need to spend a first or second round pick on a qb. Not a reach (T-jack) or a big question mark (Tebow). Trade T-jack (who I still think could amount to a good back up) for picks, package them & move around to see how far up we can move to get a quality pick. Remembering that there are a lot more Ryan Leaf’s & Heath shuler’s than Mannings every year.
L. A. Player
by L. A. Player on Apr 7, 2010 5:33 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Hasselbeck?
If he is available. Of course were talking if Favre reites here.
I like Colt McCoy. One year behind Favre would do him wonders and he could start in his second year.
Vikings please trade up to get Earl Thomas.
Disagree
Frankly I think Favre may have more tread on the tire than Hasselbeck. Those back problems seem to get worse every year.
Yeah I would be feeling desperate if Favre retires.
I know many dislike(to put it mildly) T.Jack, but since he knows the plays and system maybe we should just go with him if Favre retires. There arent a lot of QBs available that could just step in and not skip a beat. Drafting McCoy would be good, but could he step in and play from day 1? That is a tall order for any rookie.
Vikings please trade up to get Earl Thomas.
Actually, I am one of the few who are in agreement with you here. Though I don’t think going with TJ precludes taking a mid round lark on a rookie QB (another Booty).
I think there is a case for drafting a QB this year, but I don’t think it has anything to do with 2010 (no matter what Favre does), it’s for 2011 and beyond.
Favre.....
I will admit, if Favre retires I will be pretty deeply disappointed… I will feel that our season will not be anywhere close to the 2009 season. Sorry, I see the glass as 1/2 empty versus 1/2 full in this situation. I would optimistically believe we’ll have a great season with Favre (Even if he is a grandpa now and would make things just that much more awesome).
But… As for the route to take for QB?? T-Jack…. As much as I really don’t have all that much faith in him, I believe he is our best bet overall.. He has had experience within the system, has a strong arm, and experience with the team. Could he step-up to be the real leader?? Maybe…. Does the team have confidence in him?? Maybe.. Has he improved as he sat behind Favre?? Hard to tell.. Our only time seeing him this year was during pre-season & garbage time.. As for Sage?? Well as most stated, if he can’t beat out T-Jack for taking over the 2nd string spot…. What makes us think much has changed?
Best case scenario…. Favre returns another year (as we all hope). T-Jack sits behind Favre for another year (It’ll be good experience for him). And if… Favre than finally retires, we can see if T-Jack has learned a few things.. (Like reading defenses, understanding the playbook better, etc. etc)….
I’m sure the route the Vikings will take come draft-time… Is they won’t take a QB in the first round. Maybe the 2nd if something worthy has stuck around… They’ll probably go late-round for a QB… I’m thinking their first round pick is BPA (Hopefully a OL/CB) 2nd round will be either OL/CB depending on what the first pick was.
QB praise
You have to admire the QB, because he either takes all the shine, or takes all the blame. Football is a game that requires more team-work then any other sport. A super-talented offensive line will win you enough games to almost always get you in the play-offs. Granted you don’t have a detroit lions defense. Everyone labels every team by their quarterback. It bothers me a bit. The colts are always good because of Manning. Horse sh*t. That O-line that protects manning is godly. Those DE’s on the team are the best tandem in the NFL. His recievers all have superb hands. You can pin-point it on every NFL team. I still say upgrading our O-line should be our main priority for our staff while we fantasize about drafting the best available QB. Look at the Lions. They didn’t do jack to address their O-line last year, but probably got the most talented QB. Didn’t do Jack during the season. Once they address their O-line with aggression, You’ll see the same from Stafford.
I believe our O-line is average right now. Hutch is our best, with McCkinnie and Loadholt as valuable players, and the rest are mediocre. Losing Birk really hurt our running game. Too often I saw disruption in the middle gaps, or too much push for AP to get his motor churning. I’m no expert with college O-line prospects,but if there is a beast Center in this years draft, and he’s attainable, thats my #1 choice. A powerful running game like we had 2 years ago will make any of our quarterbacks top in the league.
SKOL
SKOL.
QB
Everyone labels every team by their quarterback. It bothers me a bit. The colts are always good because of Manning. Horse sh*t. That O-line that protects manning is godly. Those DE’s on the team are the best tandem in the NFL. His recievers all have superb hands. You can pin-point it on every NFL team.
Put Manning on the bench, and Painter behind the center, and do the Colts make the Super Bowl? No. They don’t even make the playoffs. You can have all the talent in the world in the rest of the team, but the QB is still the key position that has to be solid. The QB isn’t just the man with the throwing arm, he’s directing the offense, adjusting plays at the line, and leading the team. His impact cannot be underestimated.
I believe our O-line is average right now.
I believe you’re right. :)
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Pennington!
The truth is that CP can throw deep. I don’t have the links handy, but he has made several long throws in a Dolphins uni, and of course with his trademark pinpoint accuracy. Childress and Bevell don’t like to go that deep that often anyway.
I also like Jason Campbell. 7 4th qtr comebacks is almost a full season of wins for the ’skins, which means that they won roughly 1/3 of their games while he was QB because he was their QB.
I wish DC was a real possibility. I’m sure that he could throw the deep ball again, and aren’t Chilly and Bevell supposed to be strong at working with QBs (same with Pennington)?
I wouldn’t want Bulger to start. All he’s proven is that he was never the reason that the Rams were good when they were. We want a QB who has won with less like Pennington.
Pennington disagree, Campbell agreed.
Yeah he can throw a deep ball that is 40-50yards for him. It’s just that good volocity on his 20-30 yard throws isn’t there. That is why he has been pegged a noodle arm. How many deep throws did Favre have to Rice last year? The Vikes do like to go deep once and awhile to stretch the field. No way Pennington is throwing as deep or with anywhere near the velocity Favre or most NFL starting QBs do.
Campbell didn’t have much of a recieving core, nor a good O-line to protect him. It is why the Redskins are sure to address their O-line with multiple picks this year and their first one for sure. If F.Adams has anything left they would be smart to pick him up. They better look to Brandon Marshall if they want to give McNabb a downfield threat. Santana Moss and Chris Cooley won’t cut it. Went off there a bit, but I do think Campbell can be a good QB.
This is why Favre has to be coming back. Would he really have the Vikings miss out on trading for a QB and a chance to get better only to say he isn’t coming back in late July/August? Are the Vikings all the sudden that confident is Tavaris Jackson that it doen’t matter? I doubt it.
McCourty will do. If the Packers don't take him first... they would.
Pennington can throw it 40 yds in the air. The real point of a pass play is to complete the pass, and Pennington does that better than almost anyone in NFL history. The fact that he may have less velocity seems to translate to a more catchable ball.
When you say that Campbell doesn’t have much to work with, you are only underlining how underappreciated he has been. TJ had a better line and the best RB in the NFL and fell very short of Campbell’s worst campaign. And Campbell was a serviceable starter from his rookie year. Just imagine what Campbell would do on a team like the Vikings. On the other hand, Campbell has had some of the same WRs as Pennington (Santana Moss, L. Coles), so this would also underscore how good Pennington really is.
I agree that Favre is probably coming back, but I won’t be surprised if it’s more like early October (or earlier if TJ leads the team to an 0-2 record again).
No disagreement on Campbell being better than TJ
He probably would be a better fit for the Vikes than TJ.
You like Pennington fine, but if he came to Minny he wouldn’t have to do more with less. I believe the Vikes have a very good, young, emerging recieving core. How would he do with a lot of weapons and yes have to throw deep more often that he is use to?
McCourty will do. If the Packers don't take him first... they would.
Campbell
I guess, Pennington….. just too much injury risk. Never thought Bulger was really all that great. I know we have a lot of other needs to address in the draft, but without a franchise quality quarterback I think long term success is very limited. Still not sure there is a fcq in the draft. Love Tebows will to win…but. Guess if I had the answers I’ld be making some big bucks hunh. lol
Here's the deal
Brett Favre WILL be back. I will end all the speculation right now and let everyone know how to tell which season will be #4’s last. It has nothing to do with how well he plays. It has nothing to do with winning a Superbowl. The first time we see Favre miss a start, we will know that he is in his last season. It is as simple as that. If he continues to take the field every game, he’ll keep playing.
With that said, I wouldn’t mind seeing Campbell in purple as the backup until Favre retires. If we could lock that up, we could draft a promising rookie as our third stringer, wish Tarvaris and Sage good luck in their future endeavors, and we would be set at QB for the foreseeable future, something that hasn’t happened in Minnesota for as long as I can remember.
GET CAMPBELL
Anyone who thinks Campbell and T. Jackson are “identical” doesn’t know football or is kidding themselves. Campbell will come cheap right now. And in the right situation, is a very good bet to finally blossom. If I were pulling the strings for the Vikings, I would at least have some serious discussions and consider prying him out of Washington for a low draft pick. Now is the time to think on it. It might be good for team chemistry to change up the backup QBs and if Campbell pans out, what a great bargain to get a QB who could play for a decade at that cost. We could avoid mortgaging the future (drafting a QB) and spend those resources on other pressing needs.
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