What If the Minnesota Vikings Lose Pat and Kevin Williams?
by Christopher Gates on May 16, 2010 10:23 AM CDT
in Minnesota Vikings
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So, as we all know, a couple of weeks back the Vikings got the news that they could potentially be without defensive tackles Pat and Kevin Williams for the first four games of the 2010 NFL season. We've lamented the fact that these two stars could miss a portion of what could be a huge 2010 season for the Vikings, but it's time to take a closer look at just how bad things could potentially be for the Beloved Purple. More specifically, we're going to have a look at how it could potentially affect Minnesota's first four contests, as those appear to be the games that the pair are most likely out for.
We'll start with the Vikings' season opener for 2010, their NFC Championship Game rematch against the New Orleans Saints.
While everyone might immediately look at the game against the Saints and say, "Well, the Vikings have no chance against that team if the Williams Wall is out," there's a bit of a different dynamic involved with this one. Because, if you'll remember, the Saints were the other team that was caught up in the StarCaps mess with the Vikings. . .and if Pat Williams and Kevin Williams aren't playing for Minnesota, the odds are pretty good that an equally important member of the Saints won't be playing either, that being defensive end Will Smith.
The Saints had 35 sacks as a team in 2009. . .13.0 of them came from Smith, 5.5 came from DE Charles Grant (who is currently not signed and would, presumably, miss this game if the Williams Wall did as well), and 5.0 from defensive tackle and professional cheap shot artist Anthony Hargrove. Nobody else on the Saints' roster last year had more than two.
The Saints' pass rush is relatively weak even with Smith and Grant lining up at the end spots. . .without the two of them, it's pretty much non-existent. Keep in mind, the Saints' defense wasn't exactly lights out with them in the lineup, either, ranking 25th in the NFL in terms of yardage and 20th in terms of points allowed. And, as anyone that watched last year's NFC Championship can recall, the Vikings' offense did more to stop themselves than the Saints' defense did. . .infinitely more.
So, while Minnesota's very strong defense might be weakened a bit against the Saints on 9 September, New Orleans' already weak defense would be even weaker. This game is a winnable one with or without Pat and Kevin Williams in the middle of the defense, as are all of the games we could potentially be without them. If the Vikings don't turn the ball over five times in this one. . .and they won't. . .the defending champs are probably looking at a great bit loss to start the season.
Minnesota's next game would be their home opener on 19 September against the Miami Dolphins. This one actually scares me a bit more than the Saints' game does. . .why? Because the Vikings know what they're going to get from the Saints, and know that they match up with the Saints. The last time we saw the Miami Dolphins, back in 2006, there was no Wildcat, there was no Brandon Marshall in Miami, and the Dolphins were not as good a team as they are right now, in my opinion. The Dolphins had the fourth-highest rushing total in the NFL in 2009, averaging 139.4 yards per game, and now their offense has a big-time receiving weapon in Marshall on the outside to go with Ronnie Brown, Ricky Williams, and company. Can the Vikings slow down the Dolphins' rushing attack. . .up to and including the Wildcat formation. . .and get to quarterback Chad Henne? That will be the key. . .the Miami defense isn't particularly scary, having ranked 22nd in the NFL last year, so the Vikings will get their points, so it will come down Minnesota's ability to contain the run without two of the best.
Next, we're looking at another home game, and the only divisional game we would be without the Williams Wall for, as the Detroit Lions come to town. Yes, we all know the stories about the Vikings' recent dominance of the Lions, with Minnesota having beaten Detroit in 18 out of their last 20 meetings. And, yes, the Lions are getting better with Matthew Stafford at quarterback and the newly acquired Jahvid Best at running back. . ..and, yet, I can't help but think that of the first four games on the Vikings' schedule, this one is the least daunting. I think a lot of people would agree with me on that. . .heck, Lions fans might even agree with me on that.
After the bye week, the Vikings head for the Big Apple to take on the New York Jets on Monday night. Yes, we know that the Jets had the #1 rushing offense in football in 2009. . .however, they got rid of a 1,400-yard back in Thomas Jones, replacing him with a guy who, to put it mildly, might not have it any more in LaDanian Tomlinson. But even with that in mind, this game would be a tough matchup for the Vikings with or without the Williams Wall because of the Jets' incredible defense, particularly their defense against the pass. They already had the best corner in the NFL in Darrelle Revis, and they added Antonio Cromartie to that secondary while drafting Kyle Wilson in Round 1 to strengthen it even further. The combination of the Jets' defense, being on the road, and being without the Williams Wall is going to make a victory in this one a tall order for the Vikings regardless of what personnel they have available to them.
Of course, after this, the Vikings would have Pat and Kevin Williams back for the toughest four-game stretch of their season. . .home against Dallas, a trip to Green Bay, a trip to New England, and a home game against Arizona. So they'd be fresh for those games, at the very least, and getting the Vikings going on their run to the post-season.
Can the Vikings win without Pat and Kevin Williams? Of course they can. . .the Vikings are, from top to bottom, one of the most talented teams in the NFL, and are capable of beating any team in the league. Obviously things will be a little tougher without the best defensive tackle duo in the league, but not impossible by any means. What do you folks think?
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About the Jets game...
We have to remember that they also lost Alan Faneca so they might not have as much of a push up front for their running game as well.
They released Faneca, because he is old and can’t block anymore…….
by I love football! on May 17, 2010 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions
No, pretty sure
it was over his contract. If he would have taken a pay-cut, he’d still be a Jet. And a starter on the O-Line. If he couldn’t block anymore they wouldn’t have him on it.
Frost, he can't pass block........
Run block yes, but pass block absolutely not.
by I love football! on May 17, 2010 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Another thing about the suspensions.
When the Saint’s players were going to be suspended it was going to be concurrent suspensions. I’ve seen PFT bring up the point that the league may take this approach with the Vikings if and when the suspensions occur. Do you think it would be better or worse for us to have one Williams active and one suspended for eight games as opposed to both for four? Personally, I’d rather get it over with in four but if the team could choose which Williams got suspended first it might limit the damage.
by CanadianViking on May 16, 2010 12:21 PM CDT reply actions
I would find it difficult to believe
after all the legal wrangling the Williams’ have done that Goodell would give them that opportunity. If he does for the Saints, though, you would think he would almost have to for the Vikings.
If he did, I think it would be better to stagger them for a couple reasons. Jimmy Kennedy and Fred Evans played well in a rotation, so depth wouldn’t be as critical of an issue.
And why was Kennedy particularly successful? Was it becasue he’s finally comfortable in a defense that plays to his strengths, or was it that he didn’t have to be the main guy in the middle like he was in St. Louis, where he was a bust?
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile way and you have their shoes.
Knowing Goodell,
he’ll do whatever hurts the Vikings the most but staggering the suspensions would help our depth at DT. I just want this issue to end soon as the longer it drags on the more I fear the unknown. I can picture the Williams appeal being lost just in time for Goodell to suspend them for the playoffs or something ridiculous like that.
by CanadianViking on May 16, 2010 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Four and done
I’d also much rather get it done and over with in 4 games instead of stretching it to 8.
First of all, worst case scenario is we lose all 4. Even if this happens, we still have a good portion of our schedule left to regain the ground with a much more healthy (hopefully) and complete roster.
Second, while both players are serving simultaneous suspensions, the Vikings could elevate 2 players from the practice squad. This will allow for us to determine the worth of some younger players for awhile before the return of The Wall sends them back to the practice squad.
bret might disagree.....
about the saints’ “relatively weak” pass rush, he really took a beating.
A pass rush that arrived after he had thrown the ball EVERY time. He was never sacked in that game. The QB should expect to take a few hits after he throws because defenders can’t stop on a dime, but there were several instances where Saints defenders had the opportunity to pull up and not make the hit, and instead chose to drive Favre into the turf. A fact that I’m sure will not be lost on the Vikings on September 9th.
The Minnesota Vikings - Undefeated in the Playoffs at Lambeau Field!
It seems to me that,
unlike a team with a weak pass rush, the Saints’ defenders were at least close enough to Favre at the time that the ball was released to not get flagged for late hits.
Right?
-
The glass is more than half-full.
let me get this right,
the vikings weren’t trying to hit brees any way they could.
the reason the vikings lost the game was they blew it , it wasn’t the cheating low life saints, or the blind one way refs, it was the 12 men on the field, it was the lack of a pass rush, it was the 3 fumbles by AP.
AP DID NOT
have 3 fumbles. Berrian and Percy each dropped the ball once on their own.
Pretty sure Peterson
did have at least two fumbles though. Like we had 5 fumbles total.
In fact, I remember him dropping one on the goal-line. I remember him dropping one while running and then hauling ass to recover it again. And I’m pretty sure he had another somewhere.
Here are the stats
NFCCG Stats
AP Was credited with two fumbles (one recovery).
Football is easy if you're crazy as hell
it was the 12 men on the field ?
ap had 2 fumbles one he recovered. as far as 12 men on the field the vikes did do that late in the game and got flagged five yards, why cause you can only have 11. what a dumas rca
by skol viking on May 17, 2010 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions
brady rule
the defender cant dive below the knee. this play injured favre and should have been 15 yards, ref was standing right there and kept his hankie in his pocket.
by skol viking on May 17, 2010 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh please
“A fact that I’m sure will not be lost on the Vikings on September 9th.’
I beg to differ. The Vikes had ample opportunity DURING THE GAME to recognize the Saints’ tactics and they did NOTHING to stop it and NOTHING to turn it around to Brees.
The Vikes played nice and paid for it. Or rather, Brett paid for it. McKinnie and Loadholt, both 6’ 8" and around 350lbs did nothing except help Brett up from the turf. One or two “scuffles” and a flag or two would have stopped the cheap shots and late hits.
And not one of our defensive lineman got in Brees’ grill either.
Why were the Vikes playing patsy football when they KNEW that the Saints would come with the wood after Brett? Didn’t they watch the Arizona game the week before?
by Ragnar on May 17, 2010 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ya
You’d think they would of game-planned that a little bit better.
But, if you leave one guy back to help protect Favre, you remove one less guy to throw a ball too. Too bad we didn’t have someone back there to chip the late hits… But.. What can ya do about it, only learn from the past..
Kinda need Brett back too
If our o-line holds up, it does not matter that we will be missing our Wall. If the o-line can open holes for AP and Gerhart and can pass protect for Favre or Perriloux (joke) then we will be fine. Our offense would be able to overpower most defenses
The offensive line is teetering on a slipery slope
Hutch will turn 33 in November, McKinnie will turn 31 in September, and Herrera will turn 30 in June. All 3 played with some sort of injury last year and they are not getting any younger. Their is no quality depth behind them unless we think that Cook, DeGeare, & Cooper or a PS guy can back up our line. We will have to call on one of these backups at some point during the season if the odds are correct. We were extremely lucky not to have too many injuries last year.
The front office chose to ignore this position group during the draft until late. That is why they are interested in Chester Pitts because they know that they cannot go into the year with our current depth or we are asking for trouble.
And in 2011 all of these guys will be a year older. I am hoping that DeGeare turns out to be a steal. It usually takes offensive linemen a year or two to get adjusted to the NFL so we are looking at getting some QUALITY youth in that group early in the draft next year along with a QB, DT, LB, & S perhaps.
Looks like they will be busy in free agency next year. At least I am hoping so.
The Vikings have been successful because of the offensive and defensive lines. We need to keep that up.
The Vikings have been successful because of the offensive and defensive lines. We need to keep that up.
Considering that Childress and Co. are responsible for the majority of both (Allen, Edwards, Robison, Kennedy, Evans, Loadholt, Hutch, Sullivan, Cook) I see no reason to expect anything less.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Interesting
It is still unclear when the suspensions will occur. I think the league is pissed at the Vikings and will not do the suspensions one at a time. The first four games is the ebst time to do it IMO because it is one division game and 2 non conference games.
The real question is what are they going to do for another DT? When the suspensions occur we will only have 3 and a whole bunch of DEs. If the Vikings think they can get by rolling Robison, Griffen, & Montgomery inside to DT then they are in for a big surprise.
I guess the DT class in this year’s draft must have been pretty bad because we did not even take one. Even as an UDFA. But we got two more DEs. Great!
It is really amazing (and revealing) to me that fans are willing to post the same “I trust the front office” mantra when it comes to this situation. I know that these fans know better then this and you do not have to be an expert or coach or scout to know that we will be undermanned at the DT spot during the suspensions. Not to mention the fact that PWill is likely done after 2010 and there is no guarantee that the Vikings will even want to sign him again (for 50% of the snaps).
The front office has chosen to IGNORE the DT position and claim that they have it covered in Jimmy “I want to start my career over” Kennedy, Fred “nothing more than an average backup at best” Evans, & Letroy “how did I get drafted in the 5th round and do nothing and still be on the team” Guion. That is wishful thinking and not likely to happen. When these guys have to play the majority of the snaps during a game for four straight weeks we will see just how good they really are and we will see that they are backups for a reason.
I think that CG is right in that our offense will have to out score people to win these games. And I think that other teams especially New Orleans, Miami, & the Jets will run all over us keeping our offense off the field.
I think we will be extremely lucky to go 2-2, and lucky to go 1-3.
Why wouldn't fans trust the front office?
They’ve done nothing but a superb job over the last few years by builiding a high-character, extremely talented team via the draft, trade and Free Agency.
The front office knows the team and its needs better than you or I. They most definately considered every possible situation that would have allowed them to address those needs. Keep in mind that there are 31 other NFL teams and CBA’s that we must compete with for the services of draft prospects and free agents.
Our defensive tackle situation right now is not ideal. But its also no reason to make bad decisions. I know that you really want Ray Edwards to be traded. I know that you really want Albert Haynesworth to join the Vikings. I trust know that the FO has done their due dillegence and have a “back-up” plan for the 2010 season.
Maybe that plan is simply to go with our back-ups. I know our back-ups aren’t good enough for you, but did you ever stop to realize that they are back-ups on our team because we have 2 of the best players in the NFL at that position in the Williams Wall? There are plenty of DT’s in the league that would be backups on our team, not just Kennedy and Evans.
The reality is that you did a great job over the last few months of evoking conversation with your Mock drafts. In retrospect it’s very obvious that you grade talent much differently than any FO in the NFL, let alone ours which just happens to be one of the best in the business.
Don’t worry, be happy. We are returning 22 starters, and while some are a year older (like every other team in the league with veterans) most are a year more experienced. September 9 will be here before you know it and the Minnesota Vikings will be ready. SKOL!
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Nice
I did and do want them to trade Edwards IF they cannot sign him to an extension. Nice of you to leave that part out. If they do not trade him and he walks next year then we get nothing in return. Then we draft Griffen which further adds to the possibility of speculation.
And you are wrong about me wanting Haynesworth. I do not believe I ever started a thread about that or even commented on the realistic possibility of it happening. I did mention John Henderson though.
I would not say that our front office is one of the best either. They have made some pretty bad moves that did not work out.
The problem is that people cannot handle anything negative said about the team. If there is any dissent then that conversation should be stifled and stamped out.
I guess this is just a board for cheerleaders.
Not when you're more negative than positive
I guess that you forget if Ray-Ray walks we will still get a draft pick for him albeit at the end of the 4th rd. but it will still be something and not nothing in return. You sure do like to look for anyhing that is wrong with this team, my team, my Vikings….do you even like them?
I liked them since '69
And you are making a rather large assumption in that you believe we will NOT sign any free agents next year. If we do (which we should – LB, OG, S perhaps), then losing Ray may be canceled out. I am sure you are well aware of the compensatory pick formula to know that.
As I said in another reply, there seems to be a propensity for posters to NOT want anything “negative” as you put it, to be posted because it will cloud their purple colored glasses.
I have been harping on them trading Ray all off season only because, and I will say this for the gazillioneth time, the Vikings do not appear like they will PAY HIM what he is worth or wants. That is the only reason. I like Ray but I feel he did what he was suppose to do to earn a new deal. He FULFILLED his original contract and his contract is EXPIRED. And the Vikings need to get a draft pick in return. Plus they drafted a DE and signed another UDFA DE.
The problem is that you feel the need to try and “control” what others are thinking and posting. I think the Vikings should be looking to get younger on the offensive line and defensive tackle spots. So what?
Just because I do not say “I trust the front office” now I am not a fan of “your Vikings”.
If not for Favre coming here last year the attitude towards Childress probably would have been a bit different. There may not have been much trust.
by MarkSP18 on May 17, 2010 6:11 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Gonna have to rec that
All true. I’m not saying our brain trust does not pick good players. They obviously do, however, some of their actions have made me cringe and others have completely blown me away. Not getting a QB would be one of them. Not resolving the DT issues. Picking up Chris Cook when Lito Shepard for one year would probably have done a solid job while everyone else was getting back from injuries.
There is prevailing attitude on this board of the purple kool-aid, and that’s understandable, however don’t just poo poo peoples concerns because it makes you unhappy. Personally, I think this supspension may take us out of the division champs and force to try to get into the playoffs as a wild card.
Also, not to be preachy, but remember most everything written here is an opinion, even if someone writes it like it’s concrete.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
You are right
I should not have posted the comment about “I trust the front office”.
Other than that though, I think the concerns abou tthe offensive line and defensive tackle spot is legitimate.
Even the Vikings were looking at Pitts. So they may feel a bit uneasy too.
I donot know if the suspensions will take us out or not. I think it depends on if we sign another veteran DT.
The problem with that may be that if they signa guy, he will be guaranteed his full salary if he is on the roster the opening day. They may pick up a guy after the first week that they can cut later and his full salary will not be guaranteed.
I think we may be looking at after week 1 or after the last cut downs to 53.
I had no problem with what you were saying Mark
I had a small problem when people thought that because you didn’t believe in the brain trust 100% you were wrong however. Live free die hard.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
I like Ray but I feel he did what he was suppose to do to earn a new deal. He FULFILLED his original contract and his contract is EXPIRED. And the Vikings need to get a draft pick in return.
There are 2 sides to this story. Your version seems to only account for the Vikings FO’s stance. Ray is the one who seems to want to test the open market and find that lucrative deal. This is also not our only option. He has been made an offer to rejoin the team, so in the sort term there is a solution on the table. If he signs this will allow for long term talks to begin. And even at the end of 2010, it is possible to tag him next year. The latter situation is not ideal for everyone involved, but it is an option.
If not for Favre coming here last year the attitude towards Childress probably would have been a bit different. There may not have been much trust.
You’re absolutely right about that. But he did come. And he came because Childress went out and got him. Chalk that one up to a move that paid off.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Those are the options, that is true
But it is not fair to Ray since EJ & Griffen got new deals before their contracts expired.
I am not saying you feel like this but there are many fans who like Ray and do not want to lose him. Yet they think it is fair what is going on now and think he needs to prove it again after he just proved it last year.
I know it is an option but I would bet some serious money that they do not place the transition or franchise tag on Ray Edwards after the 2010 season.
it's not over yet, everyone is playing their options
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
I would not say that our front office is one of the best either. They have made some pretty bad moves that did not work out.
Examples, please.
The problem is that people cannot handle anything negative said about the team. If there is any dissent then that conversation should be stifled and stamped out.
Not entirely true. Everyone on this site, at one time or another, has expressed some sort of criticism. I have created some bitter frenemies here by my comments regarding Tarvaris Jackson. LLV and I went back and forth on our opinions regarding drafting and not drafting Jimmy C.
I guess this is just a board for cheerleaders
This site is for true Viking fans. I’ve browsed the web looking for a Vikings site that has members who are open-minded and respectful to the team and each other. The Daily Norseman is that site.
This is a Vikings site, so if you want people to be open to your criticism of the franchise, then you better be ready to deal with the subsequent disparagment of your thoughts.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Bad moves?
Really, you need examples? Every team makes bad-moves. Off the top of my head, however, I can think of Thomas Tapeh. Brad Johnson. That one QB who’s name I can’t even remember who played in like 4 games after we traded with the Eagles for him. ( Kelly something, I think. ) I’d put Gus Frerotte down, but that was hit and then miss. I am going to throw in Sage Rosenfels though, because we gave up a 4th rounder for a man who’s getting paid over a million to be 3rd string. Also, Maurice Hicks. Yeah, that worked out great. Karl Paymah Rent.
Those are all off the top of my head. I could probably find more if I wanted to go digging. My point is, every front office is going to make bad moves. You really can’t dispute somebody who says the F.O. isn’t all that great, because they HAVE made some bad decisions.
Okay if those are the worse moves that the FO has made, then I'd say they've done damn well
Of course every FO makes mistakes. The point I am trying to get at is that the majority of the “bad moves” made by this FO have not hindered the overall development of the franchise.
Thomas Tapeh, meh. No residual effects.
Brad Johnson. Let’s see: Veteran QB. Familiar with the franchise and west coast scheme. He didnt play like he did in 98, but there could have been worse stop gaps.
Brooks Bollinger/Kelly Holcomb/Gus Frerotte. None of those guys turned out to be a QBOTF. Who has in Viking land since the days of Fran? I mean really, who? DPep had a few good years. Moon had some good seasons. Cunningham and George each gave us one good season. If you look at it this way, without Frerotte in 08, the Vikes are not NFC North Champs and don’t make the playoffs.
Maurice Hicks and Karl Paymah, are you kidding me? We talking about special teamers? Wow. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I didnt think that all our problems were solved when we signed these 2 in the first place.
The QB situation is the biggest issue for me. But in the end, there’s not a whole lot that could have been done differently. Draft Kellen Clemons or Charlie Whitehurst in 06 perhaps? Pass. Or maybe we could have drafted Kevin Kolb number 7 overall instead of AP? We potentially could not have traded for The Mullet and drafted Joe Flacco?
In hindsight, the only 2 things I may have done differently regarding the QB would be 1. Sign Jeff Garcia in 2007 and 2. Draft Chad Henne instead of Tyrell Johnson in 08. Garcia would have been a better stop gap option than Brooks or Kelly. And I guess the jury is still out on Henne.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
1. Sign Jeff Garcia in 2007 and 2. Draft Chad Henne instead of Tyrell Johnson in 08.
these are two things i wanted the vikes to do at that time. i was pissed that they didn’t. and, they could have signed garcia on 08 also. by the way, he filled in great in philly with mcnabb’s annual injury. so i agree with you here.
he would have been the best qb to have if chilly wanted to develop t-jax. he is/was a competitive, smart, experienced coach’s kid who went to like 4 pro bowls. he would have been a great mentor to t-jax and henne. i think that would have been t-jax only real opportunity on this league. now he looks to be mr. back-up for the duration, like a wasted experiment.
we coulda had garcia cheap, added to the o-line to make us a serious run team, and let him roll out and spread the ball. t-jax needed a couple of years as back-up with no illusions of becoming a starter so soon. henne threw for 5000 yards, at michigan! the guy can throw. that is on chilly’s shoulders. he got lucky by landing favre.
so, the f.o.‘s non-moves are something else to consider if you are not playing teacher’s pet with them. i mean, with ap, we could be pushing on the line and getting him 2000 yards.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Keep TJ in an realize right there wether he was a real deal or not
Honestly, we could go into defensive scheme issues, the fact that most of our line is 30+ and we have absolutely no depth behind them. We have 15 corner backs and still have one of the worst secondaries in the NFL (well ok that was over stated). We have no depth at linebacker at all. This team is chock full of holes and one of the reasons is that Chilly likes hiring big names instead of taking a steadier approach.
Oh and the QB situation is a disaster.
Now they also have done some very good things as well, they have a crap load of pro bowl level talent, and Childress’s play calling didn’t completly suck last year…
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
I’m saying most of those signings were failures because it was just a complete waste of a signing. All the players I mentioned were cut after a single season. They didn’t hurt the progression of the team, but they sure as hell didn’t help it any either.
And while Hicks and Paymah were eventually relegated to special teams, when we brought them in it was being said they’d play a role in the offense or defense. Ala Paymah, who did actually get alot of play at the CB position, and absolutely sucked, almost costing us the Raven’s game. So they weren’t just special teamers.
I mean the way you defend them, it’s as if they’ve done nothing wrong. I find that signing somebody off of FA for all of a season is basically a failure. The only thing they could have done worse in these situations would have been to keep the players they signed. So I suppose they were wise enough to cut them after mistakingly signing them.
Final thought… Henne wasn’t available when we took Tyrell. They took him in the 2nd round, and I’m fairly certain they had the first overall pick that year. Just tossing that out there.
well, there was some trading of spots going on
vikes picked tyrell at 43…..phins took henne at 57…..too late now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_NFL_Draft
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
I’m not saying they did no wrong. But I don’t agree with your assessment either. We would not be the only team in the league to take a shot on some veterans that had produced for their previous club and then fizzled out. See Washington redskins e.g. Jason Taylor, Albert Haynesworth, etc.. Even the Pats missed on a former pro bowler in Adelious Thomas. It happens.
I know a lot of Viking fans had some high hopes for Hicks, considering how he had played in SF. But he was signed as a 3rd RB/kick returner, not exactly an integral part of the equation.
Paymah did play some, but only due to injury. He would not have seen the field if Winfield didn’t go down. Asher Allen wasn’t active that game so we didn’t have much of a choice. But again, he had played decent in denver the year before so it didn’t seem like much of a gamble, especially since his role was defined as a Special teamer/back-up DB.
Henne was selected after Tyrell.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Wow, very non-standard nicknames
Jimmy ‘I want to start my career over’ Kennedy just doesn’t roll off the tongue…
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile way and you have their shoes.
Dude, SERIOUSLY
In your last two posts you’ve said, “The front office chose to ignore the offensive line”, followed by “the front office chose to ignore the defensive line”. You make it sound like they had 50 picks in the last draft to work with. WTF?!? FACT: D-line was the BEST in the NFL last year, ranking FIRST in sacks and SECOND in run defense. Pending suspensions or not, it’s just 4 games of a 16 game schedule. They aren’t going from first to worst on that. And the O-line? FACT: Offense was SECOND in scoring last year, and the line had two Pro Bowlers in McKinnie and Hutchinson, one stud rookie starter RT in Loadholt, a first year starting center in Sullivan, and Herrera at RG having to hold the fort in between two young new starters last year. EVERY TEAM HAS NEEDS. The Vikings happened to have bigger needs at CB and RB than they do on either line, and the stats bear that out. I would say “the Vikings weighed their strengths and weaknesses, and what the draft had to offer this year…”. I would NOT say they “chose to ignore” anything. Get real. Lemme guess — you crapped your pants when they didn’t draft a QB too, right? Here’s a question — had they taken offensive and defensive linemen with the first two picks, would you have said “the front office chose to ignore the cornerback and runningback positions…”???
He also stated at the end of a post that the vikes have been good because of solid O and D lines.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
'Have been good' is past tense
To which he also added his assertion that the Vikings completely ‘ignored’ both lines in this draft. Well by that logic, they also ignored kickers, punters, outside linebackers, safeties, quarterbacks, fullbacks, and long snappers. Theye have aging veterans in all of those positions, too. See what I mean? They had more pressing needs at CB and RB, and they went for the best guys they could get. And that’s not good enough?!? I swear, the average Vikings fan is completely irrational. If they don’t somehow manage to take the number 1 ranked player at every single position in the draft, it’s a total failure, as far as some MN fans are concerned. It’s rediculous, and I’m calling it out. Fans always seem to think they know more than the coaches and draft personnel, I’m surprised they don’t all have jobs with NFL franchises.
I'm not sure I see the pressing need at CB
I surely didn’t see the pressing need to attack someone about their ideas. People were worried about CB because Griffen and Winfield were badly injured. It looks like Winfield will be playing and Shepard should be able to take over for Griffen in the short term. Really that was all we needed was a short term answer. We have Asher Allen, Sapp, Winfield and Shepard right now. Plus we have to special teamers packed into CB. Adding Chris Cook, well that could be construed as over kill.
As for fans knowing more than other people, really? That’s your argument? Hell I garuntee I know more about the Windows API than Bill Gates does, so I shoudl be running Microsoft. That argument makes about as much sense.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
If you throw in the pass happy league that we play in, then ya, I see a pressing need at CB
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
How many CB's do we have?
How many would you like to see out there actually playing CB? Why do we have so many? Wouldn’t it also make since to shore up some holes in out OL since we play in a pass happy league? Give methusela back there some time? With the insertion of Shepard we did have some extra time to work with on the CB. If one of our linemen go down this season we’ll be in a world of hurt. We didn’t need a starter we just needed a serious back up that could play if needed.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Actually
the Broncos just cut some Center. I’m kind of hoping we grab ahold of him.
My mistake
it was the Cowboys released a center, but he’s visiting the Broncos. And there’s multiple teams interested in him.
Cook and DeGeare are those guys.
That might make your sking crawl, but not mine. And not because I am drinking kool-aid or wearing glasses. I think Cook has a lot of value in that utility lineman role.
Additionally, I am willing to bet that our roster may look a little different once the Ray Ray, EJ and Ced issues are ironed out. If Ray Ray is signed long-term, say bye-bye to Mitchell and possibly Montgomery.
When Ced returns healthy to the lineup, say bye to Lito or Sapp. That will open the door for a guy like Chester Pitts to slip in as he will probably be unsigned due to the knee recovery.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
I think you are mistaken about the offensive line
And I am not the only one. Check out profootballfocus.com and see where our linemen rank. Check out AP’s YPA last year which regressed from the year before. Check out where Viking backs were hit the second most times behind the line of scrimmage last year at 28%.
Here are some comments from Greg Cosell & Adam Caplan discussing the line on vikingupdate.com …
Greg Cosell: I think their offensive line really struggled this year. Really struggled. I’ve said for years that Bryant McKinnie is an average NFL left tackle and the thing that always bothered me about him is his total lack of competitiveness. The guy has great feet, and if you just looked at him you’d go, ‘There is a prototypical left tackle.’ But he doesn’t play that way.
I think Steve Hutchinson is at the end of his career. I don’t think he had a very good year.
TY: He was hurt quite a bit. He was dealing with back issues.
GC: But I think that’s going to be an issue every year. I don’t think he’s quite at that level anymore.
I think Sullivan – you have to study these guys every single play and I didn’t – but I thought their offensive line as a whole did not play well. I think (Anthony) Herrera is a terrific try-hard mauler/fighter who will do anything to make the block, but he’s very limited talent-wise. I think (Phil) Loadholt is a competitor. He’ll get better. He played left tackle in college. He’s obviously a right tackle, which is what he has to be in the NFL because he doesn’t have real good quickness. He really struggled on occasion, but he’ll get better. With Sullivan, nothing stood out on film to me
Here are some more comments from Adam Caplan …
[Comment From heath heath : ]
Do you think the Vikings should trade Bernard Berrian and Bryant McKinnie for some draft picks since the draft will be so deep this year? It would give them more picks to build the offensive line and the safety and cornerback situation.
Wednesday March 3, 2010 8:06 heath
8:08 acaplan:
I can’t see anyone giving up much if anything for McKinnie. His film shows it. As for BB, I could see them making a move, but comes down to what the cost is plus would any team want his contract.
[Comment From Viking Dave Viking Dave : ]
McKinnie’s lack of respect to the Vikings and the NFL for his Pro Bowl debacle must have teed off his teammates and coaches. Has he lost their respect and should the Vikings cut bait and move in another direction?
Wednesday March 3, 2010 8:16 Viking Dave
8:17 acaplan: If I was in charge, I’d cut him. He simply is an underachiever and without the cap, easier to cut. Problem is it’s so hard to get LTs.
-——————————————————————————————————————-
These guys watch film. They are not “an average fan” like me. They see the same things that I see and that is our line is aging and there is not guarantee that they will play better.
My post was really about getting some guys to come in and take over in a year or two while they had time to develop.
But you cannot handle that. You take it as an attack on the Vikings and they and make it personal. If you cannot handle debate then so be it.
Fact of the matter is the Vikings are not too comfortable either or they would not have been kicking the tires on a soon to be 31 year old Chester Pitts.
The success of our offense is entirely because of Brett Favre. If TJack was running the show we would not have had anywhere near the success we had passing the ball.
The point I am making is while I do not mind the picks of Cook, Gerhart, & Griffen, I felt the offensive line should have been addressed earlier. We had already signed Lito Sheppard and we could have taken another BACKUP RB later. Why we needed another DE is beyond me even if he was the BPA. I don’t even see how he will get any snaps.
good stuff, mark
i’m glad to see the dialogue you pasted. it reaffirms what i have been thinking and seeing the last few years regarding the o-line. i’m not a hater, i just want better than what we got and think it should be a priority, imo.
i first noticed mckinnie’s tendency to quit on plays before brett favre got here. he gave up on a block against the bears in 2007 and the guy knocked the ball out of t-jacks hand and it was ruled a fumble…the qb got the blame. i was ticked, mckinnie looked apathetic and his lack of effort is what caused the fumble. since then i’ve noticed how little he gets scrutinized, people just assume he is good and “pencil him in for the next ten years”. i do not think he was a pro bowl caliber player last year either, just my opinion also.
last year he and loadholt got turnstiled on several occasions, and the run blocking overall was weak imho. i thought ap did a lot to make yardage due to brute force (although he is not one to stutter in the backfield to pick his way throug the holes).
micheal oher did a great job against the vikes last year in concert with flacco to create a pocket where the void was left because oher stuck on his block just road our de’s around the long way, and flacco just stepped up with a full view of the field. there is a talent difference between him and loadholt.
my own belief is that a solid o-line gives one of the biggest pay-offs for the team’s effectiveness, and that our o-line isn’t what i would call a solid one. a lot of people don’t want to look at the situation critically. passing yards, rushing yardage and points actually don’t tell the whole story. we have great skill players that can compensate for less than stellar o-line play. just think of how much better we would be with a few tangible improvements to the o-line roster.
overall, there seems to be a lott of purple shaded optimism and homerism on the issue, thus the attempts to play “thought police”. just because you are pointing out an area of concern, does not mean that you are being negative or do not want the team to do well. and stating an opinion on a blog is not going to hurt the team.
the one thing i did notice is that your initial post did come off a bit like “the sky is falling”, but i know where you are coming from, due to your previous postings.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Thanks
My initial post probably did come off as you stated and may have set some others off. It is difficult to sometimes stop and really think about how what you are writing may be interpreted.
I just am worried about the DEPTH on the offensive line for this year and then at least a successor for Hutch in a year or two. I mean I am not just pulling this stuff out of my arse. There are people who watch football and grade players that see the gradual decline. I still think we can hold the fort for another year but as I mentioned earlier, it is a slippery slope.
I will say that DeGeare does have some intriguing measureables and I am hoping he is a steal. We passed on Marshall Newhouse for DeGeare. Perhaps because DeGeare played left tackle his senior year made him more attractive. He actually had better numbers than Iupati.
http://www.900footballlinks.net/2010nfldraftoffense.htm#OG
I still think that the tape is the most important measure though. As you know from many of my pre-draft posts I really wanted the Vikings to make a play for Jared Gaither. They need to do something to get at least one very good backup IMO. That is why they were kicking the tires on Chester Pitts. Even they know that.
We shall see though. I am a big fan of it starts up front and I want to continue the dominance and since we are getting long in the tooth it is a good idea to get young studs to groom. Here is another story about rookie DTs …
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8180ced6&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true
I really felt we should have at least added one BEAST in the draft or even as an UDFA and we did not. It is truly a mystery to me at this point.
We didn't want another
BACKUP RB later. We wanted the Heisman runner up right where we took him.
Its not the attacking we mind, its the lack of credible solutions offered to fix said problems
Anyone can look up the ages of our current roster and say, “dude your Oline and QB are older than dirt.”
Just like anyone can say, “the vikings should trade Ray Edwards, Bernard Berrian, Bryant McKinney, Steve Hutchinson, and Karl Paymuh for players and the #1 overall draft choice.”
In either case, those type of statements don’t offer any real solutions and are seen as irrational and ludicrous.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
There are many ways to voice an argument
Some are harsher than others. Personally I don’t always (ever) agree with mark (just kidding) but he actually does usually back his ideas up. Hell he had so many laid out back up plans for the draft I thought he had a computer with a random draft generator stuffed some where. When he was doing the all or nothing trade scenarios he stated why he thought we needed the person and why we might want to get rid of the players he was trading (money, last year on contract etc…) Did I agree with them all? Nope, but he also stated that some of them were just spit balls to see what people thought.
Sorry if this was harsh or negative, I truly don’t mean it to be.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
You mean he was serious about those moves? Kidding. The point is, I think the so-called cheerleaders just didn’t think those moves were possible or better yet, they didn’t think the suggested moves were neccessary or improvements. I know I didn’t.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
I was and am serious about Gaither
If you believe the stats at profootballfocus.com then you know he is a pretty damn good LT that is only 24 years old. But he Vikings did not feel that way.
Also, I posted a link to a site that shows how athletic DeGeare is and how I do have hope for him and kind of like the pick. So I am trying to post something positive about our offensive line pick in the draft.
But that does not take away from the fact that our offensive line is getting old. And they have not played well. Sure we almost made the Super Bowl so they did something right. But I am looking at in long term and looking for them to become dominant.
I am not the only one who f
Only 2 are 30 and over
The other 3 starters are under 30. Loadholt and Sully are 24.
So put a window on this decline for us. I mean how many more years do you give Hutch and McKinnie? If they can go another 2 years, which is not unreasonable for offensive lineman, then there is no reason for panic right now. Those needs can be addressed next offseason. Plus there are a lot of young, promising linemen in camp right now.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Hutch will turn 33 in November, McKinnie will turn 31 in September, and Herrera will turn 30 in June. That is three over 30.
It takes linemen a year or two to really develop although some can be thrown in there right away if they are a high enough draft pick (usually).
As Greg Cosell said above, there is no telling with Hutch and he thinks his best days are behind him. I would say Hutch MAY have two good years in him. He may have more but he is the only one.
McKinnie is a major disappointment for all of his physical attributes. The stats I posted prove this and other people who watch the film see that too.
Herrera is what he is and there is not a great chance for him to all of a sudden develop into a pro bowl OG. He is a try hard serviceable guy.
If you think that Patrick Brown, Chris Clark, Drew Radovich, John Cooper, Thomas Austin, Marlon Winn, and whoever else we have on the PS are going to come in and play even at the level that McKinnie is playing then I may be wasting my time. These guys are UDFAs for a reason.
Ryan Cook is the only backup we have who is OK. And he is just OK. He lost his job to a rookie.
My point about the offensive line is that I wanted to see a guy picked early who may not have come in and started but could have been groomed to take over after this next year. I am thinking long term.
If the Vikings did not want the QB this year then I thought an offensive linemen earlier than the 5th round would have been prudent. But that is just me and I ain’t the coach. Just my preference.
Next year we probably will be looking for a QB (I hope) in the first round and we may be looking for a LB early too. Hopefully we can get a free agent offensive lineman next year. He will cost more money though.
I try and post things that I think make sense. I am thinking of the Vikings beyond next year and I am thinking how awesome our offense could be with a really really good offensive line. With the weapons we have we could really have a strong offense for years. But the line comes first. If you do not have that then it will not matter what weapons you have.
For some reason this offends you. It is like I cannot say that I think the depth of the line is in dire straights and the starters are getting up there. As I said, linemen take a year or two to be ready so I thought now was a good time. I am hoping for DeGeare. Even the Vikings are not happy with the seasoning of the depth or they would not be kicking the tires on Chester Pitts.
The window on the decline is shown in APs yards per carry stats. It has gone down each year since his first. The team as a whole is the same. I do not know how long the line can be serviceable but it is not a top 10 lie right now.
It doesn't offend me, we just have different opinions
You state your opinions and when someone else’s opinion differs from yours, you get all huffy.
My opinion is based on results. This front office has identified it’s needs based on the scheme it employs and has attempted to address those needs accordingly. With the Favre signing, I am even including the QB situation as being addressed accordingly.
Greg Cossell is free to share his opinion, as are you. I don’t believe Hutch is on the decline. I believe he played injured last year and as long as he can get healthy, he will lock up the LG spot for the next 3-4 years.
I never said that Herrera needs to play at a pro bowl level. Not every team in the NFL is blessed with 5 pro bowlers across their offensive line. Keep in mind that he was playing along side 2 new players in 09. Time will tell, but it’s not illogical to think that they will play better in 2010 having last season to gel.
We have a different opinion of Ryan Cook. He was replaced by a rookie that played the tackle position naturally. Cook is versitile. His value to the team is in that versitility and the experience he brings to table.
You knock the Vikes for waiting until the 5th round to address Oline, but how do you know that DeGeare won’t be the next Matt Birk (who just happened to be a 7th rounder)? I will wait until I see him in purple on Sunday’s before I pass judgement on his abilities and on the decision to wait till the 5th to draft him.
If it’s not a top 10 line right now, then how did our offense rank near the top in several offensive categories? Afterall you wrote:
But the line comes first. If you do not have that then it will not matter what weapons you have.
I am not at all saying that the Vikings have zero needs and are perfect as they are. I am saying that I don’t understand how they suddenly got worse in the last 4 months after a brilliant season in 2009. Especially when we consider that we didn’t lose anybody from that team.
Will we need to address the QBOTF and oline sooner rather than later? Absolutely. Will it get done before it’s too late? I believe so. Why? As I began this post, I believe these needs will be addressed based on results.
When Childress was hired, he declared that he wanted to run the ball and stop the run. What did he do? He brought in Chester Taylor, signed the best guard in football in Hutch, and then drafted AP. To address the defense he hired coordinators consecutively that run the Tampa 2 and then traded for Jared Allen to improve the pass rush from the front 4. When it looked like the QB situation wasn’t getting better, he brought in a Hall of Famer. Needs have been addressed, they will continue to be addressed. Have a little faith.
SKOL!
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
You just cannot recognize greed when you see it
I am greedy.
I want the line to be beastly.
I believe it all starts up front and if there is an injury we roll in another beast.
The stats and the guys like Greg Cosell, who know a hell of a lot more than me and are not int he business to bash the Vikings, show that things are not as they should be.
I want the line to better and younger. No matter what anybody says here, Jared Gaither is bigger and better than McKinnie right now. 6-9 340 and 24 years old.
Yeah I like him and I am crazy enough to want to swap him for McKinnie.
I actually think that Hutch is the one who can play for a few more years at a pretty high level.
I am greedy!
Well I guess we just live in 2 different realities
If it were as easy as you suggest, then Daniel Snyder should already have at least 5 Lombardi trophies.
Nice pic by the way, I don’t think I’ve ever complimented you on that before!
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Thanks, her name is Patricia De Leon Miss Panama 1995
Use to be Julio Iglesias girlfriend and was Michael Jordan’s girlfriend. Cant say if she still is though.
But her standards are very high (as in high roller) so there may not be that many guys that can compare to the two listed above.
nmvike said: “Have a little faith.”
that’s the problem, nm, i wanna have more than just “a little faith” ;)
i wanna have “a lot of faith”….so i suggest to the f.o. (because i know they are reading your posts…kidding), let’s address an area that will benefit a whole lot from some average, acheivable improvements. which easily still might happen.
i agree with the injured/now healthy point and the extra year of experience point, and i don’t think anyone is over the hill. i just don’t think they are as good as they need to be. i think they can be better with a good veteran addition and a swift kick in the batooty (code speak for hgh).
the thing that i keep my eye on is that we have the best damn running back since jim brown, and i would like to get him to the second level 3-4 more times a game (or stuffed 3-4 less times a game). to see him run into the backs of purple jerseys breaks my heart.
i’ll bet he could average another 35-40 yards a game no problem, and that would equate to a 2000 yard season. now that is damn studly, and definately within reach. he’s in his prime right now. (or use toby for a chunk of rushing yardage).
further, this would make our passing game even more lethal cuz it would force defenses to shit their pants and play us more straight up.
When Childress was hired, he declared that he wanted to run the ball and stop the run.
so, what i here you saying is that the f.o. will likely be addressing the o-line roster at some point before the season starts. because they make the necessary moves when we need them (right now, because the run blocking ain’t nothing special).
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
I'll support you on this one.
I’ve noticed you and others bringing up ProFootballFocus in the conversation a lot lately so I’ve been checking it out. I find some of their grading questionable but they do give some valuable insight. Our offensive line run-blocking ratings were 5th in 2007, 8th in 2008, and 32nd in 2009. Our pass-blocking ratings were 24th in 2007, 21st in 2008, and 4th in 2009.
While our pass-blocking was rated surprisingly high this year I’m pretty concerned about the huge drop-off in run-blocking. I’ve seen our ranking on other sites where our run-blocking is more middle of the pack but the decline over the past three years is consistent.
I also checked out the individual rankings of our linemen and their is decline across the board overall in the same span. The only line positions that have been relatively consistent are Hutch and Mckinnie.
Hutch was overall ranked 2, 3, and 16 while Mckinnie was overall ranked 4, 9, and 14. Hererra and Cook/Loadholt have been consistently ranked poorly. The main change in ranking is definitely the switch from Birk to Sullivan.
I hate to pin our O-line problems on one first year starter but Sullivan’s position seems to be the “center” of our lines problems from the stats and rankings I’ve seen from multiple sites.
Now, that’s a lot of negative talk so I’ll switch to my optimistic take on our line now. Our line will have continuity this year which is a key element in success. Two of our weakest lineman were first year starters so some improvement should occur. Hutch will be healthier this year so he should regain some of his past form. Surprise, surprise Mckinnie grades out as the one stable position on our line over the last three years. I’ve got nothing positive for Hererra but Degeare seems to have the athletic ability to replace him in a years time.
So, in conclusion we declined a fair bit last year which is worrisome but their is also reason to expect some positive bounce back this year. If we pick up a veteran OG to push/replace Hererra before September I think we’ll be in decent shape.
by CanadianViking on May 18, 2010 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Even if it is only 2 guys though, keep in mind it’s your BEST two guys. McKinnie and Hutch paved the way for AP in 2007 and 2008, but struggled to do so last season. Having those two not play at the level they had been would hurt you guys and actually did last season.
by packallday555 on May 19, 2010 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions
cg, good post / good topic
i like what you’ve laid out. a few additional thoughts came to mind while reading your post, too.
although it seems likely that it will b the first four games that the suspension takes place, we don’t know for sure yet. looking at the schedule, september is tough, but october could be as tough or tougher (saints, phins, lions, jets vs. cowboys, patriots, cards, bears). i would rather get the suspension over with sooner. if we take a few losses, i’d rather them happen earlier than later. teams might not be gunning for us as hard.
the middle linebacker situation takes on real importance in the suspension period. henderson is still trying to get healthy after another severe injury. brinkley filled in well, i thought last year (especially for a late round rookie). he goes 275 and looked good against the run. i’m hopeful that he will supplement any fall-off in run stopping we may experience. but if he gets hurt, we have some issues. also, the safeties are going to become important too if opponents suck our linebackers up to support the dt’s, and then start passing over the middle.
the jets might have gotten rid of jones, but they have shonn greene coked and loaded. plus, the addition of ladanian gives sanchez a great pass catching option out of the backfield. they let faneca go, but they got ducasse to put in his place (i wouldn’t have complained if we took him over toby to fill a need). they have a killer defense, they can run it down yur throat, and they will be improved in the passing game. i see the jets as our toughest match-up of the year….that’s toughest “match-up”, cuz they can cause our passing game problems, and they will challenge our d-line with their blocking and running game. they may have the ability to control the clock against us.
all-in-all i am somehow not as worried about our dt contingency plan as i am about the ripple effect of any fall-off because of it. additional pressure falls on the linebackers and d-backs. and it’s the additional pressure on the d-backs that has me concerned.
thanks for the good post, cg
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
oops!
my bad…typo…i meant to type “they have shonn greene cocked and loaded”.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Coked up and loaded!
Sounds like game prep from the 80’s : )
by CanadianViking on May 16, 2010 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Another quote of Mr. Gates that I found hilarious was this one:
defensive tackle and professional cheap shot artist Anthony Hargrove
It’s actually Bobby McCray who is proudly claiming himself as the NFL’s newest “QB Killa”!
The real question is, what are the Vikings going to do about it this time around?
by realheavyd on May 16, 2010 6:05 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Whichever one it was
Whether it was McCray or Hargrove or another of the Saints’ bevy of cheap shot artists. . .here’s sincerely hoping that they all get what’s coming to them over the course of the 2010 season.
When it happens, whether it’s against Minnesota or any other team, they’ll deserve every single bit of it.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on May 16, 2010 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
What? No Vikings fans have attacked me yet? I'm waiting...
I know it shouldn’t take too long before I get a bunch of negative replies sent back my way in here, but I am just sitting at the ready for when they start coming flooding in any time now…
Why would we attack you?
Making fun of the mentally handicapped is the wrong thing to do.
Even if you’re not mentally handicapped, you are a complete and total joke. Go try to convince yourself of your greatness somewhere else. . .everybody here is too smart to buy into that garbage.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on May 16, 2010 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Mentally handicapped people should be insulted by your comment, but I laugh it off...
Try harder!
You will need to convince me that you’re smart enough not to buy into any of the so-called “garbage” that I’m selling you in here! I got you to bite already, didn’t I? Who’s the idiot now, huh?
You are
You know why? Because I say so. That’s why.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on May 16, 2010 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Anyone else feeling froggy?
Go on and jump.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on May 16, 2010 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions
wow alot of tough guys
here at the daily menstruation. gonna beat us up online? i swear, grime and few others were good guys but the rest of this place is just a joke. youre on your own heavyd, im done reading “the idiots guide to vikings fandom”. and yea, you are welcome to those who say thanks for leaving.
I’m an independently wealthy methamphetamine enthusiast with a vivid imagination - Stujo4
Here, let me help you with that
Rest assured, you won’t be missed.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on May 16, 2010 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh, and if you're here
For the express purpose of trolling. . .and it certainly appears as though you are. . .your stay here is going to be a short one.
Don’t like it? Tough. Troll somewhere else.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on May 16, 2010 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions
You havn't been established enough to be a rival
I’m sorry, but really you’ve had one good season in what 40 years? You need to be good for a while for it to be a rivalry other wise it’s just watching the broken clock be right once in a long while.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Hmmm
A trip to the NFCCG in 2006 seems like a pretty good year to me.
Football is easy if you're crazy as hell
Oooh
he got you there, Grime. 2 good seasons in 40 years.
Well whats the point in bringing up the past
In this league it is all about “what have you done for me lately”. Lately, we have been pretty damn good. It is great to have a storied history (or in our case a bleak one), but recent results are what i am focusing on.
Football is easy if you're crazy as hell
lately?
You went from the bottom of your division to the top…
That is like… The Detroit Lions taking the NFC North this year.
Is it possible? Potentially, yes…. Is it likely? I would put my money against, that’s for sure..
Well the NFC South is the anomaly of the league
And yes lately. A Super Bowl and a trip to the NFCCG in four years. I will take those results. in 2008 when you won your division with a 10-6, we were dead last in ours with a 8-8 record. 2007 we were 7-9 you were 8-8. 2006 we were 10-6 and you were the flip of that.
I am happy enough with the results for those years.
Football is easy if you're crazy as hell
I hear ya.
In the end you got the ring and that’s really all that matters, let me be jealous in my own way!!!
Boy if I had one I would hold it in my hands it would be so precious… GOLUM GOLUM!!!
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Well I know you were an 8-8
By no means was I getting at you were a BAD team.
My main point was that the division is inconsistent.
Our 6-10 year was a first year w/ Chilly.
But, from what I foudn out last year… That since you finished at the bottom of your own division… You played teams like the Rams & Lions (teams that were normally at the bottom as well)
You played the East division which is pretty competitive, but the way it seemed designed for your team was that it was meant to be an easier schedule.
We were lucky to play the Rams as well, since they were from the West Division, but they also were the division of the 2008 NFC Champs.
We also played the AFC North Champs (Superbowl Champs – Steelers)…
Ideally, when you look at our schedule from the beginning of the year, you would of had to think that the Vikings had a harder schedule and the Saints had a few gimmee’s..
Well thats really the league's scheduling system.
Apparently the scheduling for who your conference will compete against is projected several years forward. You could find out who you are going to be playing for several years to come. The teams you are going to be playing save for i think two games of the season are already identified. At least that is what they were saying on NFL network the other day.
How strong those teams end up being is not pre-ordained. It is a crap shoot really.
Besides, that whole concept of any given Sunday. Case in point, I was at the Vikings 49ers game and if it wasn’t for that last second TD to Greg Lewis it would have been a win for the Niners. And the Saints had their own share of crazy games.
Football is easy if you're crazy as hell
Are you asking for negative replies? I don't understand this post.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
No, he was looking to troll
Largely because he’s a worthless, disgusting piece of human filth, as are all of his friends that are encouraging his behavior. The pathetic slime has even set up a new e-mail address for the express purpose of trolling my inbox since he can no longer spread his stupidity here.
Seriously, to call this guy a piece of crap would be tremendously insulting to actual pieces of fecal matter. Same goes for the rest of his fellow trolls, and for the people that encourage their stupidity.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on May 17, 2010 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions
I think the Dolphins and Jets would present the most difficulty for your defense without Pat and Kevin. It’s no secret that the wall is a huge part of your great run defense, and without them, and likely Henderson it may be hard to stop two of the best run games in football. Though if Favre is back, your defense may not need to get a ton of stops anyways.
We focus on teams
That don’t need to rely on total dumb luck to win football games.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on May 16, 2010 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Dumb being the most important part of that sentence. Oops, dropped it again.
If I am good I could add years to my life / I would rather add some life to my years.
Oops, I accidentally hit "ban"
And by “accidentally,” I really mean “not accidentally at all.”
Peddle your crap elsewhere.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on May 16, 2010 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions
"Hammer Time"...doom, doo doo doo, mmp mmp, doo doo, mmp mmp, doo doo, mmp mmp
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
If you ban all the a-holes how am I coing to get better at bashing trolls?
It’s an artform you know and one must keep in practice.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
13-3
In regular season and 3-0 in post season. A hell of a lot of dumb luck in my opinion.
Football is easy if you're crazy as hell
Rediculous amount of it
Seriously I have a hard time personally believing it was all dumb luck, but it’s the story I’m sticking to!
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
I don’t know that it’s overlooking..I just think the loss of Pat and Kevin hurts their run defense more then their passing defense. The Saints have a nice run game but do more of their damage in the passing game. I guess the biggest reason I mentioned the Doplhins and Jets as being the most difficult games is because both teams have pretty good defenses (with the Jets having an excellent one.)
Favre will likely be back, and that likely means the Vikings be great offensively again. I don’t think your defense is much more then average and that doesn’t bode well. Your offense also struggled against the Vikings quite a bit. I just don’t see the Vikes turning the ball over 5 times again I guess.
by packallday555 on May 17, 2010 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think the defense
is better than average. I mean, the Saints have a pretty good offense. Pretty sure they finished ahead of us overall in the season, and we did a pretty good job of stopping them in the second half of the NFC CG. The offense wasn’t helping the defense, unfortunately.
Basically, the only thing our D needs is better coverage of the WRs. Other than that, it’s a pretty damn good D, and I don’t see the one flaw as dragging it down to average.
I think you misunderstood my comment. I was saying the Saints defense is average not the Vikings.
by packallday555 on May 17, 2010 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions
I will admit
When we didn’t have our starting corners we suffered. When we had them back, we were playing lights out on D. When Sharper was allowed to be the ballhawk that he is and GW was able to use everything in his bag of tricks our D was top 10. Corners went out and we were signing guys off the street. Everything digressed due to personnel. Probably why we picked a Corner with our first pick this year. Payloo wants the depth.
Football is easy if you're crazy as hell
That’s true, you had Greer and Porter out for a while right? Kind of like our team actually. Having a bunch of guys going down forces you to sign guys that probably otherwise wouldn’t be on a team, as well as use guys who are really only special teams players.
by packallday555 on May 18, 2010 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions
My mistake
the constant indenting makes it hard to see who you’re replying too.
I get hate mail. . .from morons.
This from our good friend “realheavyd”
What did I do to piss you off and make you ban me from commenting on your stupid anti-Saints Vikings thread? Did I expose you as an idiot too successfully or what? I gave factually based responses to your fictionally based arguments as to why you thought the Vikings would win the opening game against the Saints in 2010 and you apparently didn’t like it. You are a total dick Sir! Go fuck yourself!
Must mean I did something right. Whining little crybaby punk.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on May 16, 2010 7:54 PM CDT reply actions
And another one
“Try to ban me from sending you e-mails, why don’t you?”
Considering that the address for the site is a GMail account and he’s e-mailing me from a GMail account, you would think that he would have noticed that GMail has a “block” function. Of course, in order to make this assumption, one would also have to make the dramatic assumption that he isn’t slightly less intelligent than pond scum, and that’s just not realistic.
Anyway, enough fun with trash for now.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on May 16, 2010 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Well done sir.
You do a great job handling the fools. Thanks for doing a great job as usual.
by CanadianViking on May 16, 2010 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions
hmm, a statement that is not congrouis with previous statements.
- I gave factually based responses to your fictionally based arguments as to why you thought the Vikings would win the opening game against the Saints in 2010 and you apparently didn’t like it.*
really, where are teh facts in these staements?
- Do y’all not see your team’s head coach as a total wuss?*
- What? No Vikings fans have attacked me yet? I’m waiting…*
still waiting for those factual based arguments troll!
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on May 17, 2010 7:59 AM CDT up reply actions
You won't get them
Mr. “d” has suddenly gotten very quietly.
It’s as if a million trolls cried out and were suddenly silenced.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on May 17, 2010 8:04 AM CDT up reply actions
+1
that was good for a great laugh1
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on May 17, 2010 8:09 AM CDT up reply actions
How was this an anti saints thread? I don't understand where this guy was getting his information from
This thread was about four games and how each would reflect on the loss of our two big run stuffers. The fact that we may be without EJ as well… Yeah it could suck, but while the Saints to have a good rushing game they aren’t in the same level as the Jets or Miami who only run.
Sad that some people let anger over ride common sense.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
while the Saints to have a good rushing game they aren’t in the same level as the Jets or Miami who only run.
but, the jets and phins will probably be showing more pass this season to go along with their running.
that may make them harder to gameplan for, at least we are familiar with the saints offence.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
well done, christopher
and thanks for all you do for the daily norseman.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
actually, would you please remove my...
“dude, i can take your trash, but seriously, don’t go their…. " comment.
after reading further, i would have not made any post in hindsite.
cheers.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Done
The loser’s post with all those recommendations on it seems to have disappeared for some reason, too.
The zero tolerance policy for garbage is in full effect this evening.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on May 16, 2010 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions
A couple of folks
Have pointed out that there have been a couple of threads that have popped up in places that are ripping me for having the gall to not kiss the asses of the almighty Saints.
To which I say, “Good for them.” It’s a free country and all that.
I do, however, think it’s hilarious that the mere suggestion that they’re not invincible is enough to send their entire fan base into a collective conniption fit. Man, I’d hate to be that insecure. I guess actually having something in my life outside of a football team keeps that from happening.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on May 16, 2010 10:04 PM CDT reply actions
You Would Think...
that fans of the team that managed to win the Super Bowl this past year would have better things to do than come on this site talking trash…Things must be really boring down in La. or they really are insecure about defending their “ahem” title. Damn, I wish Sept. would hurry up and get here.
You would, indeed, think that
But you’d obviously be wrong.
Some people just need to be constantly coddled, have their rear ends consistently kissed, and have everyone telling them about how great they are at all times. It’s sad, really. Actually more pathetic than sad.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on May 17, 2010 7:14 AM CDT up reply actions
The Wall
If we was to lose them I would prefer it to be the first 4 games,but I think Pat will retire if Favre doesnt come back.But I also see the Wall getting a stay while awaiting appeals.I think they can win in appeals. Judge Larson gave them good grounds for an appeal and while Goodell would like this to go away,just dont think its going happen.
The early bye week bothers me more then a suspension does as the schedule gets toward the rough spot in the middle.
As far as last year its over,ill chalk it up with the other so close ones and start gearing up for this year is Our Year Mantra till the last snap in the last game.
I doubt they get suspended...
…to be honest…how many times have we seen appeals? And with the long due process required…we may not see them get suspended this season…or ever!
I'm still a Minnesotan at heart...
It's not how you start the season it's how you end it.
And if I were the rest of the league I would be worried about giving our big boys a rest before this Purple Machine is in full running order. Sure give our back ups some experience that way we’ll be that much more prepared come playoff time.
just watch the waiver wire in reverse
when the purple were 9 – 0 at home and 4 – 5 on the road in ’09 and returnin 22 (maybe 21) of 22 starters their are not alot of open positions available for newcomers … do we need to improve our depth in some areas sure and i think an effort to do so was made at every place of need with the possible exceptions of DT & S … however i am still confident in the talent that is already in place to be more than capable of gettin the purple back into position to win that elusive very last and final game of the season … there will be some excellent competition this summer to qualify for one of the 53 spots on the purple roster … and when cuts are made … “just watch and see how fast other teams in the NFL want the athletes that didnt make the cut here in minnesota” … we see it every year … there is another possibilty or avenue in which to use some of that depth we hav some strong tradin chips for a team lookin to do some swappin once camp begins … stranger things hav happened … i am not in favor of either haynesworth or pitt i do not consider them viking material from a character standpoint … both good players in their own right just not for the purple … in my opinion … we hav so many exciting things to watch with the purple this summer … toby-time … a fullsized corner that likes to hit and mix it up … a young d-end that will hav all the motivation in the world gettin to play for that d-line … i am very interested in watch the progress of two new rookies in particular young mr webb looks like an athlete that can definately play the game of football … and the young o-lineman from wake forrest he looks like he could be that swing man to replace the loss of mr hicks … go vikes … i cant wait … one last closing comment that so called pro-bowl game this last year was a joke looked more like a flag football game i turned it off wasnt worth watchin …
MGR4FUN
one correction
DE Charles Grant (who is currently not signed and would, presumably, miss this game if the Williams Wall did as well)
Charles Grant was fired released by the Saints. If you recall Grant did not even play in the NFCCG, he was on injured reserve. The Saints picked up 2 veteran DE this off-season. Plus they picked up some DT depth, so the DE they had playing at DT in NFC championship game can go back to DE, in a 4-3. More importantly Greg Williams(defensive coordinator) will not be limited to a 4-3 defensive because of injuries this year.
I do wish both teams would be able to play their best people, but it looks like the Vikings will be hurt more. The Saints had 2 out of 4 starters playing on the D-line last year. If the Starcaps sentence is handed down they will have 3/4 starters. The Vikings will have 2/4.
"We've got 27 ways to add up to 11 (players on the field). I came up with another one last night." -- Greg Williams
by DrWhoDat on May 17, 2010 4:16 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
But despite the time he missed
Grant was your second-leading sack guy.
As far as the veterans you picked up, we’ve seen Alex Brown twice a year since he came into the league. . .and, frankly, we’re not impressed. Montgomery might be alright, but I’ve yet to see any evidence that either of those guys are definitively better than Charles Grant.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on May 17, 2010 7:17 AM CDT up reply actions
I will say, however,
That at least you came over here and presented an intelligent, logical argument without turning into a complete troll. Some of your fellow fans would be well-served to follow your example. . .or, at least, they would be if they were ever going to be allowed to post here again, which they aren’t.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on May 17, 2010 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions
I understand that a lot of fans put a lot of weight into sacks, but QB hurries would probably be a better statistic. I am too lazy to go do a days worth of research on the subject though. Grant was inconsistent, lazy, and a disruption to the locker room. I was actually happy when he was out at end of year. On the other hand, Will Smith will defiantly be missed if he has to do a suspension. I am sure both teams will figure something out.
Thanks, I have been posting here for a while, and most of the Saints and Vikings fans were getting along great until that overtime game. I stayed away for a while to give y’all some time to heal. Being a Saints fan for over 35 years gives you some perspective on how losing feels.
Other than that, I will be back a couple of weeks before the game. Y’all are welcome at CSC too. Both teams will have had months to game plan. Look for some weird stuff from Williams. Expect the unexpected from Payton. It is a luxury having two head coach caliber coaches calling the shots for the Saints. While both teams will have most of their starters returning, they will be two completely different teams.
Should be a good game either way, and I hope it goes into overtime again.
"We've got 27 ways to add up to 11 (players on the field). I came up with another one last night." -- Greg Williams
Christopher Gates?
Is that you Gonzo?
"We've got 27 ways to add up to 11 (players on the field). I came up with another one last night." -- Greg Williams
Yep
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on May 18, 2010 6:22 AM CDT up reply actions
I thought you lived in Biloxi
Surely you have seen how fat and lazy Grant has become.I think with the addition of vetren DE’s we signed in free agency and the play of Bobby Mcray we will be ok at DE
World Champions at last
by mississippisaintsfan on May 19, 2010 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm sure Favre won't mind not seeign Kevin out there,
just like I’m sure your running backs won’t miss the Williams… I guess the reas question is which will hurt who more? Us being able to pass better, or you being able to run better. It’s a tough call you guys ran pretty well.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Hey Grime
Good points, Sharper will probably be out. Everyone at CSC expects M. Jenkins to be moved to FS but I’m thinking C. Vaughn might just win the spot. I am waiting for preseason with baited breath.
BTW who is Kevin?
"We've got 27 ways to add up to 11 (players on the field). I came up with another one last night." -- Greg Williams
Actually no,
It was supposed to be the name of the sack master on your team who got nailed with Star Caps as well… Gah I suck.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
That's it Will Smith
Thanks Grumps don’t know why I can’t remember the Fresh Prince, must be the big ears..
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
My thoughts...
Dolphins and Jets which have quite the dominant run-game leaves them being a pretty one-dimensional team. I think our defense can stop the run well against a run-heavy team. They won’t be able to stop it as well if they had the Williams Wall, but good enough to still win games.
I would be more fear ful of the pass heavy teams. It is quite improtant for our D-line to put pressure on the QB to make quicker releases. I know that P & K Williams were not put on the defensive line soley to pass rush, but, you know they weren’t bad to have out there.
Also, we had to rotate in players on the defensive line to keep their legs fresh. I know a guy like Allen hates coming out (sort of like Favre), but Robison is a pretty stout back-up for DE. It doesn’t feel as if we have that same depth for DT. They are big bodies that take up space…
Losing them for four games may not hurt us as much in the run, but maybe more so for the pass.
Actually
I’d argue our depth for DT is stronger than our DE. After Allen and Edwards comes Robison. And after him. . . I can’t even really think of who we have. For DT however, after the Williams is Kennedy, then Evans and finally Guion. Guion doesn’t seem to make much noise, but Kennedy and Evans are pretty solid back-ups themselves.
ehhh
I was considering Robison & Everson Griffen…..
Two potential future starters…
I read an article about how Robison is believe to be starter material, but, good old Jared Allen basically has to be dragged off the field. Even J. Allen has told Robison that himself.
I like hearing things like that, because that just means that J. Allen is extremely competitive.
Robinson almost had the same about of sacks as Ray did in the regular season..
of course he’s was just in on passing downs…
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Ya..
He coudl easily take Edwards spots if he departs.
And w/ Griffen itching to play, and looking like a R. Edwards 2.0, what will the Vikings be doing? cycling in their DE as they do DT?
Why not, right? Fresh legs against an offense all day?? Sacks and tackles, sacks and tackles…
Yeah I figured you were throwing
Everson in there. I’m doing the logical thing and keeping him out of the discussion, since we don’t know how he’ll do yet. Based on what we have, I think DT > DE for quality depth.
One of the reasons we won the NFC Championship game and SB
was the fact that Charles Grant got injured and didn’t play. He was awful for the last few seasons. The guys who stepped in were fresh and hungry and played well. Grant was our one weak link on defense who needed to be replaced all year but played a lot because he had a huge contract and he was (possibly) a better run stopper at times than the alternative players. But as the season wore on it became apparent he sucked. If he had stayed healthy I don’t think we could have won with him in the lineup. That’s how bad he was. Ironic that we got better when a starter got injured.
I also think it will be difficult if not impossible for Favre to have another great year. He did last year, but he is old. And he is injured and beat up. He got in injured with the Jets and he is injured now and I don’t think he is the messiah anymore. Teams will be physical with him now after what the Saints did to him and I am predicting he will be a big disappointment this year if he is stupid enough to come back. Comes a time when you are just too old………..
"I think we agree, the past is over" - George W Bush
"The greatest enemy of knowlege is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge" Stephen Hawking
So, to recap
You say one minute that Favre can’t have another season like he did in 2009 because he’s old and injured. . .then point out that he was old and injured in his season with the Jets, after which he. . .went on to have a great season for Minnesota.
You’ll pardon me if I don’t think that makes a heck of a lot of sense.
As far as “teams being physical” with Favre. . .if teams consistently take the kind of gutless, spineless cheap shots at Favre that the Saints did, they’ll get flagged. And they’ll deserve it. Not to mention that the first time Favre takes another one of those gutless, spineless cheap shots, the Vikings’ offensive line will start answering back the way they should.
If that’s the case, who are you going to bet on. . .a bunch of overrated, Johnny-come-lately cheap shot artists like the players that comprise the New Orleans Saints’ defense, or a guy that hasn’t missed a game since Bill Clinton’s first term in office?
Sorry. . .but in Week 1, I’m guessing that the Vikings are going to dislodge the horseshoe that the Saints have jammed in their collective asses. Quite forcefully, at that.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on May 17, 2010 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions
You make me laugh- so bitter, so petty
we beat you fair and square and this long afterwards you are still crying. Pretty pitiful. If you were better, you would have won. If Jared Allen had shown up, you could have won. You could never have beat the Colts, though. It’s the NFL- it’s a man’s game. Stop crying. A younger QB would have held up better and not thrown such a stupid int. . Whining not allowed any longer. Are you going to cry and whine when Favre retires as a Packer and acts like he never even heard of the Vikings?
"I think we agree, the past is over" - George W Bush
"The greatest enemy of knowlege is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge" Stephen Hawking
Go pretend you're vastly superior
Somewhere else. Nobody here is dumb enough to buy your B.S. Sometimes it’s just better to be lucky than it is to be good. The 2009 NFC Championship Game is all the proof anybody needs of that.
We’ll see how high and mighty you all are while you’re watching Saint carcasses being scraped out of the Superdome turf after the Vikings’ season-opening victory.
Oh, and good luck with that Madden curse thing, too. . .it’s going to hit your team like it hits everyone else’s.
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by Christopher Gates on May 18, 2010 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions
You ask anybody not in Louisianna
and they’ll pretty much tell you the Vikings beat themselves. But you won the SB on a questionable onsides recovery, so good job. Enjoy the feeling while it lasts.
you guys are pitiful. still crying. grow up and be men.
"I think we agree, the past is over" - George W Bush
"The greatest enemy of knowlege is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge" Stephen Hawking
You're pathetic. Still trolling. Go play in traffic.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on May 20, 2010 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Frost has a point
I’ve heard from numerous fans of other sports teams (So that would make them un-biased, right?) That believe the Saints were pretty lucky and not the better team.
I don’t believe I can re-call any sort of circumstances of where people figured it to be a fair-game, unless they were an anti-Vikings fan.
Just most un-biased fans of NFL seen the Vikings as getting jipped. Oh well… Bring on the 2010-2011 season.
and as far as the injuries, my point is that they are adding up.
The beating he has taken over the years will show if he is stupid enough to come back.
"I think we agree, the past is over" - George W Bush
"The greatest enemy of knowlege is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge" Stephen Hawking
What about pre-season?
Does anyone know….
If Pat and Kevin are suspended for four REGULAR SEASON games this year, are they ineligible to play in the pre-season, too?
I know pre-season games don’t mean much in grand scheme of things, but if the Williamses AREN’T allowed to play in the pre-season, it will have almost been a full NINE MONTHS since either of them will have played at full “game speed” against an unfamiliar opponent when they take the field on October 17th against the Cowboys.
It concerns me how long it might take to get them ramped up to game speed after the suspension.
They can play in pre-season
And participate in Training Camp and all that good stuff. The suspension applies to regular-season games only.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on May 18, 2010 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions
RE: They can play in pre-season
Cool, thanks for the info.
by zero_my_hero on May 18, 2010 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Are you Serious about underating the Lions??
This is the same team that gives the Vikings a run every time they play. Lucky field goals have been a staple in that 18/20 game stretch. When the Lions with 0-16 their best shot of a win came against the Vikings late in the season.
If by lucky fieldgoals playing a part in the 18-20 stretch,
you mean a lucky FG by the Lions made it 18-20 instead of 19-20 then I agree completely.
Honestly, they haven’t given the Vikings a run for their money since the season before last. Last year we handled them pretty good. In ’08 we handled them pretty good. ’09 was the only year they really had a chance to beat us.
this may have already been said but it's hard to read all this stuff...
If farve is back i think the first game of the season will be just as intense as the NFC CG was. It’s very unlikely the viking will fumble five times…not much to say there, it just does’nt happen that much. However with that said i do believe it’s likely the saints will cause more TO’s then the vikes will, Thats what their defense does. It’s a high risk high reward system that greg williams brings.Saints had 39 in the regular seson and the vikes had like 24. Just like the vikes are more likly to have more sacks. The vikings are sack experts(much better then the saints) but the saints have as many pro-bowl offensive lineman as the vikes have pro-bowl defensive lineman. The saints team will be better then it was last year…they just havn’t lost anything to really note and are improving/add depth to alot of the team. Charles Grant has not been good for a long time…and i would say it would be very hard to find a saints fan who would say otherwise.(still not signed by anyone else you notice). i guess with all that said i really don’t belive the williams wall or any other one or two players will make the game go one way or another. (there are some obvious exceptions..brees,farve…etc) I can however say i believe the saints will be a better team then they were the last time the vikings saw them….hopefully thats enough for another W.
To be fair
part of the reason Grant may not be signed is that he’s going to be potentially serving a month suspension. Once that is over, the interested teams will come crawling out the woodwork.
i'd be pretty suprised...
he averaged less then 5 sacks per year over the past 5 years, was overweight, and had not shown any special talent at stopping the run.
If you think teams will come out of the woodwork for Charles Grant, then you don't know Charles Grant.
"I think we agree, the past is over" - George W Bush
"The greatest enemy of knowlege is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge" Stephen Hawking
or of course....
those teams are arena football teams or CFL teams..then sure maybe
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