The Atomic Bomb was NOT a Publicity Stunt
by Elgar on May 22, 2010 2:56 PM CDT
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Yes, this is actually rather relevant to the future of NFL professional football in Minnesota, but then I digress.
"America asks that you take immediate heed of what we say on this leaflet.
We are in possession of the most destructive explosive ever devised by man. A single one of our newly-developed atomic bombs is actually the equivalent in explosive power to what 2000 of our giant B-29's can carry on a single mission. This awful fact is one for you to ponder and we solemnly assure you that it is grimly accurate.
We have just begun to use this weapon against your homeland. If you still have any doubt, make inquiry as to what happened to Hiroshima when just one atomic bomb fell on that city."
Yes, these words were literally falling from the skies and hitting people on the heads in Japan near the end of World War Two. The bomb that had leveled Hiroshima was not just part of some propaganda minister's imagination.
But if you were watching CNN today, you possibly heard the legend repeated on television that the NFL uses Los Angeles as a boogie man to scare little towns into building big stadiums.
That should not comfort you one iota. Ed Roski is a real guy with a lot of real money. He was not invented by Roger Goodell. His idea about building a stadium and stealing two NFL franchises from unsuspecting cities is his own, not some radio script that Goodell had sent to him via Pony Express, even if other people out west here are trying to steal the bacon from him and do the deed themselves. Ed will pull the trigger. All he has to do is corner Zygi Wilf, and the good folks who claim to be working for you in St. Paul are doing more than doing his bidding. He doesn't even have to pay them to do it for him. You're handling that aspect of the project. Don't expect a thank you card.
The atomic bomb is not a cartoon, It is not science fiction. Neither is this Mr. Ed.
Why am I telling you this?
Because hidden away in a secret location, I have a one-of-a-kind, hand-autographed NFL game ball, signed by Sam Rutigliano, Brian Sipe, Ozzie Newsome, and the Cardiac Kids, the 1982 Cleveland Browns, and I know full well where the Wizard of Oz works these days, Baltimore, Maryland. He's the GM of the Ravens.
I'm telling you this now in bold letters, because after 2011, it will be too late.
Those Japanese citizens being pelted with leaflets were told by their neighbors that it was just American propaganda. The bomb is not real, or the Americans do not have another bomb, or just stand up and die for your emperor. Well, the truth be told, the emperor's new clothes are more than a tad threadbare these days.
So you like living in beautiful downtown Nagasaki, eh? Well, there are things happening in the capital of the prefecture that you have a stake in. There is a real Boxcar with your name on it.
Once the oil gets out of the well, nobody is going to put it back in there. Baltimore has a Lombardi, not Cleveland.
Roger Goodell did not create Los Angeles at Dreamworks Animation. He doesn't pay Ed Roski to go get building permits or environmental exemptions from the Guvernator as a stunt for Minnesota legislators to grin over. Sure, Roger may be threatening to you, but he's after the money, not you. A fool and his football team are soon parted.
Maybe it has to end this way. Maybe Minnesota really can't afford anything but arena football.
But don't buy the argument that the NFL is just bluffing, or that they won't really use Los Angeles, because then they'll have no bombs left. I heard all the same crap in Cleveland that I'm hearing from Minnesota now, and thought you ought to know that. While I was in Minnesota, I tried to convince people the threat was real. All I got was a so what? We don't give in to threats.
Well, a word to the wise is sufficient. Folks in Nagasaki thought those were just foreign lies too. Look, there's only one plane coming. They're just trying to scare us.
Famous last words.
If you have any doubt, just inquire as to what happened in Cleveland. My hunch is the bomb that hits you is bigger, and Roger Goodell won't be sending in any people to help rebuild Minnesota. Zyg will go back to New Jersey and count his money from Ed, pay his pals, and then go build a giant mall somewhere. (Probably not in Minnesota, where they think MOA is the cat's pajamas.)
My hunch is the bomb that hits you will be bigger than the one that leveled Cleveland. After all, it is now the twenty-first century.
This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.
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Ziggy
Has been more than patient. If it was me, I would have signed on the LA Stadium deal long ago. It’s a shame too because LA doesn’t deserve football after failed previous attempts. I’d rather see a new city like Memphis, or San Antonio get a shot.
My father was in a zig-zag pattern leaving the 4th wave on Okinawa then delayed...
He was to begin a 4 year/2million loss campaigne before they hit . I and probably 85% of the bloggers would not be here to tell you to shut the pie hole and leave politics out of this one . You know nothing of what a true hero means to our country and hopefully you will never have to get the chance . They did what had to be done . They were offered a home in San Antonio for free and said no . Detroit,Chicago, GreenBay have a much worse stench about them maybe we should dismantle the three to save the Purple & Golden child in Minnie !!!!
Nice try
Football does not exist in a vacuum, and if you don’t speak up for it, it will be gone.
It the A-bombs hadn’t been dropped, my father and his P-51 would likely have been splattered somewhere over Tokyo, and there would be no me. I’m here for a reason.
The point is that some people think they are spiting Zygi Wilf, when the real people they are going to hurt are their neighbors in Minnesota.
Zygi Wilf is just one guy. If people in Minnesota want Jerry Jones or Ed Roski to make all the money instead of Zyg, that’s their call, but I’m not sitting back letting them go around saying they are putting the hurt on billionaires.
Ain’t so.
Yes, he is suffering from bad times, old wives tales, and guilt by association.
The NFL for the NFL is about making money.
People need to be aware that the idea they want to use Los Angeles just to scare people is flawed. If they move the Vikings to LA, Minnesota will become the new bomb, and they won’t need LA as a threat.
“Look at what happened to those clowns when they decided they couldn’t afford a stadium while labor rates were low. Do you want that to happen to you?”
Capitalism runs on competition. If you don’t produce, the money goes elsewhere.
It’s nice to have a nice boss and it may even help your employer, but if you aren’t part of the economy, you’re on your own.
Wow.
What a wildly tastless metaphor, no matter what your dad, or grandad, or uncle or whomever did in the war.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on May 23, 2010 4:59 PM CDT reply actions
Oh yeah... because you know.. the
past never happened. We can’t talk about it.
There were dozens of reasons the U.S. dropped the bombs.
Not only to show the rest of the world our military might but also to save Americans lives. Would you prefer that Americans died so that the aggressors could live? There was no way to stop them.
No one's suggesting that past didn't happen and can't be discussed.
And I’m not getting into an argument over whether the bombs should have been dropped. My opinion on that isn’t what you think it is, but is irrelevant in any event.
My comment, which is short enough that I’ll have to assume you read but somehow didn’t understand, is that using the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki as a metaphor to explain that the possibility of the Vikings moving LA is not an idle threat, is tasteless, over the top, and trivializes (probably unintentionally) the end of one of the most horrific conflicts in human history. In short, it’s a dumbass and sensationalized way for the author to make his point, and he should be ashamed of himself for doing it.
If you, after either missing my point or deciding that you can’t refute it, want to then attack me and suggest that I can’t be critical of this author without wishing that more American soldiers would have died in 1945, then you’re a fucking idiot and I certainly hope you choose not to reproduce.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on May 24, 2010 2:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Ha! Not the answer I was expecting.
No worries. We’ve all been there. Or at least I have.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on May 24, 2010 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions
It's all relative actually
If you don’t mind me asking, do you have or know of any young children? Have you ever seen a 3 year-old absolutely lose it over something small and trivial like falling down and scraping their knee? I’m talking about those times when they let loose that blood-curdling scream that makes you drop what you’re doing and run to them for fear they are dying.
But the thing is, even though it was just a little scrape, to them it was much much more terrifying. To them it was as close to death as they have ever been. To us, it wasn’t really all that bad. But to them, it could have been the end of the world. All they know is the pain and fear that is gripping them in that one single moment. They know of nothing else in comparison. They’ve never been in a car accident. They’ve never lost a job. They’ve never been dumped by a significant other. And we wouldn’t blame them for feeling that way. They still have that innocent ignorance that we all envy. But with that ignorance comes a heightened sense of pain and fear in the face of comparatively menial events. It’s why they say “what doesn’t kill us makes us stronger”. Every painful experience allows us to adapt to a new understanding of what real pain and fear really are.
I think the same can be said for analogies like this. I’ve never been in a war. I’ve never almost lost my life to anything. I’ve lived a pretty peaceful and productive life so far. And I’m extremely thankful for that. But losing the Vikings is to me what that little scrape is to that little girl. It will be the most traumatic experience of my life so far. To me, it will feel like an atomic bomb, because I have never experienced anything as painful.
You, on the other hand, may have had something worse happen to you. You may have gone through a horrible divorce. You may have seen the horrors of war. But whatever the pain you’ve felt so far in life, please understand that it’s all about perspective. You might have a vastly different perspective on life than I do. Right now, I might be perfectly content, but the Vikings are all I’ve got. Losing them will be to me like losing a loved one. And I don’t think you can downplay that emotion just because somebody else “had it worse” at one point in history.
If pain is only pain when you’re feeling it more than everybody else, I doubt you’ve ever felt pain in your entire life. Because there is always somebody who has it “worse” than you.
Back to the real subject .
Politics are holding things up as usual . The more time that passes the more clout Ziggy will gain . St. Paul and the other groups will have to allow this without being thrown a bone .
Since when did Norsemen become a Nation of venom?
Lets have a little respect for ideas. Elgar obviously feels that the public is being blind and deaf to the Stadium deal. He wants Minnesota to wake up before they face what he considers an equivalent to Armageddon ( loss of the Vikings). No matter what historical event he used to illustrate his point, not he or any other poster deserves to be bombarded with crude and cursing comments.
We can all take a moment to reflect upon what we write and how that might be interpreted.
As to the Stadium issue. There are two sides to that discussion.
One view says the public should help pay for the new stadium because of the public good it creates.
One view says business should stand on its own because there are ways to help more of the public than by financing a football team.
Minnesotans know more than most both sides of this argument. They have just financed two new stadiums. Minnesota can exist without football. The question is do they want to? I think the fairest way is to have a referendum vote on the subject. If they want to fund a stadium, vote on the tax increase to pay for it. If not, then Ziggy Wilf will understand what the will of the people really is.
After all wasn’t "freedom to choose " the point of the War that started this discussion.
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
After all wasn’t "freedom to choose " the point of the War that started this discussion.
no, it was “economics”, like most wars. but, i agree with what you are saying. however, elgar’s choice of metaphor is predictably explosive….but it is elgar.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Hmmm. Not ready to debate the causes of wars.
Having served during one I would just say " there isn’t such a thing as a good one’. But glad we agree that civility should trump content amongst friends.
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
by lifelongvike on May 24, 2010 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions
My point (besides the one on my head) is...
Do not let the Vikings go the way of Vikadontis Rex.
I lived through seeing fans in Cleveland fall asleep to the same kind of misleading gossip as I heard repeated on CNN just the other day, namely that the NFL uses Los Angeles to scare little towns into buying big stadiums.
The next thing that guy next to you in the bar (who has had one too many) says is that the NFL will never move a team to Los Angeles, followed by some hypothetical yet invalid reason for that, like that,“If they use Los Angeles (or Los Alamos or wherever), they won’t have anything with which to threaten the tiny villagers anymore.”
(“Morons! There are morons on my team!” (sigh))
It never occurs to them think that they will become the next Los Angeles or that if the NFL is making enough dough that they can survive (since 1994) not having a team for a single county which has three times the populace of the entire state of Minnesota, imagine how long they can wait and use the mighty “fourteenth largest NFL market” (as one certain Minnesota legislator recently puffed aloud) as a case in point about not keeping stadiums up with the times. The NFL will do so without losing a bit of sleep at night. It’s those Minnesotans who love football that will get hurt in this thing if they volunteer to buy the albatross from LA’s neck to wear like a bowtie.
Like the folks in Nagasaki may have said as the information was falling from the heavens above to warn them, "It can’t happen here. "
The truth is, we are all whistling past the grave yard. How many of you feel that NFL Films can not make a good video about the Viking fans driven to desperation without football that would make missing rings or missed field goals seem like the golden years? Whether you got to vote for him or not, Zygi Wilf is your billionaire. Ed Roski is mine. Who do you want to win this thing?
If you can’t afford the investment in upgrading your stadium now, it probably says you can’t afford NFL football. If you prefer Packer backers making fun of you for decades to come as a place that can’t afford real football, just have another beer and watch ESPN.
People will tell you they feel they are drowning in debt and can’t swim. I’m just pointing out what Butch Cassidy says from the top of the cliff near the end of the movie: "Are you crazy? The fall will probably kill you! "
If you can’t afford to support football with a stadium where you can actually walk down the halls at half time without risking missing the third quarter, seeing the Vikings on TV will start to run you about $300 per year. A new stadium won’t. You stand at the fork in the road. What will you have to eat there?
I’m stealing the roles of the ghosts of football past, present, and future. If you are still living in Miinnesota, you get stuck with the role of Scrooge. Whose goose do you want cooked?
I don’t want the Vikings to leave Minnesota, but I have a 2,000 mile head start on most of you in getting to that potential new Viking stadium, should things go south in the north star state of things.
So what if Roger Goodell wants to play DIrty Harry. “Do you feel luck punk?”
Whether it is nobler in the mind to go to jail, directly to jail, than experience the most powerful handgun in the world, maybe we’ll just leave to Hamlet to decide.
To be, or not to be? (NFL football in Minnesota, that is.)
by Elgar on May 24, 2010 4:12 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
65 Years Later....
Good post, Elgar, and your point is well taken and understood by all the Viking fans here on the DN. We’ve been over it, WE understand…. but you’re preaching to the choir. I think that if your post weren’t in Fan Posts, if it was on the front page of the DN, it would show up on a Google News search when the stadium issue is hot. But buried back here in Fan Posts, I suspect only DN readers get to see it. Maybe Chris will let you post one where it will show up to the wider audience.
Not to trivialize anything which anyone has sensitive sensibilities which might be readily bruised at the hint, at the implication of possible trivialization, I’m going to post a couple links to Hiroshima and Nagasaki as they are TODAY. I’m posting them to show those who haven’t thought to look, what these cities are now like after enduring the hellish nuclear fire that annihilated them more than half a century ago, after the impact of the radiation and trauma and such. I’m posting them because I never thought to look, I just had an imagined assumption about them until last year…. and I was wrong.
Hiroshima
Nagasaki
My point is that now, 65 years later, despite the horrors of the past, people are going about their business, about their lives… life goes on.
And so it will be if the Vikings leave Minnesota. Minnesotans will go about their business, go about their lives, without the Vikings. Also without my respect and regard, but I doubt they care two hoots about that :) . And me…. I’ll still be a Viking fan. Not happy that they’re no longer in Minnesota, but I’ll still be a Viking fan, no matter where they go.
SKOL!
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
by DCPurple on May 25, 2010 11:11 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
That is one awesome picture of
Nagasaki….. I never really thought about what they looked like today until you made a comment about it followed up with pictures.
Minnesota has several sports teams.. Losing them is nothing new to a new out of state owner is nothing new to us. However, we have continued with grabbing new teams to bring in.
We lost the Stars that went to Dallas
We lost the Lakers that went to L.A.
Hmm…. Both of them won championships after their departure too!
The situation here seems more different. The Wild & the T-Wolves have replaced those listed above and as far as my sports knowledge goes, neither have won a championship. Both have had good seasons, but that is about it.
The Twins have had their recent close chance to hitting up the world series, which they haven’t done since I believe 89 & 91 if my memory serves me correctly.
Vikings have had 4 Superbowl appearances back in the day, but only have made it as far as the NFC Championshp since.
If we lose the Vikings to another owner, another state, I do not see us getting any NFL team in the near future. The state of Minnesota will lose that revenue that they bring in. Minnesota will not get the out of town visitors for the Vikings games who visit the Mall of America, stay at the hotels and visit other local businesses.
There will be a split in fans who were once die-hard Vikings fans who travel to Green Bay to get their NFL fix…
Bars may potentially going out of business as friends won’t gather together to cheer on the Vikings win or lose… I have read articles about how businesses that have a close proximity to a stadium tend to have a drop in profits after a team leaves.. Many have gone out of business.
The people of Minnesota fail to realize this because they are too worried to maybe back a tax that will costs them a few dollars a year. When in my opinion, if the tax that was introduced years ago to build the Metrodome still exists today should be more than enough reason to build the stadium out of the pockets of Minnesota. Especially since I have read that the dome was paid off in nearly 1/2 the expected time.
You got a guy like Zygi who has paid extra money to bring in talent ot keep the team competitive and win games willing to front a good portion of cash to get this done.. With a market like Minnesota, a better stadium could be used so that Zygi isn’t second to last in the revenue that is made… Thanks to revenue sharing that has kept Zygi afloat in the NFL ownership, but, something needs to be done…. Zygi obviously doens’t want to move the team or sell the team, but Minnesota is nearly giving him no choice.
MN just needs to wake up and have a dose of reality.
Well stated, Deek.
I know I’m preaching to the choir. It’s the choir that will suffer if they see the Viking ticker tape Super Bowl victory parade in another city. (Been there, done that.) The same drooling pols who grin as if they are protecting the wallets of Minnesotan’s everywhere will drop the story on you that the Vikings being sold was some sneak attack, like Pearl Harbor.
Zygi isn’t trying to sucker punch anyone.
Although I know that mathematics makes people’s eyes glaze over, 32 teams just happens to be an advantageous number for setting up the season scheduling and playoff arrangements. The NFL is not interested in adding just one extra team, and the challenges of getting four new teams to lauch and fly in the same season in this day an age says to me that no one should be counting on getting another NFL team, unless they are planning to poach some existing franchise. If multiple billionaires in California are having trouble getting franchises for a metro area of over ten million people, how much of a shot will you really have at it?
Even if you are not all that into math, please go count the number of winning and losing seasons the expansion Cleveland Browns have had after they went to all the expense of building that football stadium which politicians had said they could not afford, then decide for yourself how much easier that road looks than buying a stadium while the prices are lower.
If you can’t afford a stadium, you certainly can’t afford buying an NFL franchise. The window in history for doing what Green Bay has done has has closed. What other self-respecting billionaire is going to think of Minnesota is a dream site after it sends Zyg packing? The guy has done about all an owner can legally do to build a team worth backing and watching.
There is some front-running ethos about Los Angeles, just as in New York. This is exactly why a team like the current contending Vikings could actually take root in LA. They want to beat New York. Why jump on the bandwagon of a team that might be an embarrassment to them when they can already buy a USC sweatshirt? This is how frontrunners think, and frontrunners have you outnumbered.
Zyg is getting bashed because he wants to invest hundreds of millions into contruction of a building in Minnesota that he won’t own and can’t ever move to New Jersey to set upon his mantle. He doesn’t want a roof on it for football, but if that helps Minnesota make other uses for the building, he’s all for it. Do you really think the rich will flock to Minnesota if they have to buy an entire hotel to stay for a couple weeks every year? Daddy Warbucks is only a cartoon character.
Football is a rough game. You can’t play endless games and still maintain the quality of play. The bodies of the players take too much punishment. Since you can’t run a much longer string of games in a season to make a whole stadium pay for itself for the year, you need to do other things with the building, like Super Bowls, Final Fours, political conventions, and other large events, rain, shine, or snow.
I happened to be sitting at Cleveland’s Johns Hopkins airport the morning the news broke that the Browns were moving to Baltimore. Politicians immediately started the spinning that Art Modell was (—-just fill in your expletive of choice here—-). I’ve had fifteen years to reflect on it, and my opinion is it’s just easier to give people a scapegoat than a place where you can enjoy a good football game.
They say don’t holler until you’re hurt. Don’t buy that in this case. You have to stop the train wreck before it happens. Holler now. Those who don’t like football need to be stopped before they take over the planet. People who want billionaires to stop coming to Minnesota are possibly deranged.
Vote this fall for anyone you can who is trying to give the stadium an even break. Vote against those who oppose it. Remember, we could all save money every week by never eating again, if saving money were all that is important in this life. Smart money like Warren Buffett buys while the prices are lower. Once you hock your football team, the pawnbroker doesn’t guarantee that it will always be there at the shop for you to buy back.
Not even Silas Marner sees his checkbook balance flash before his eyes as the grim reaper arrives.
Skol Vikings, don’t go!
Nice little response...
One thing people would have to keep in mind… It seem that for the NFL to effectively add any more teams to the line-up, each division on both the AFC & NFC side would have to add a team. That would total up to 8 teams for the entire NFL. This would create 40 teams…. This would also remove one of Brett Favre’s records of beating every NFL team, he would have to play until he was 50 in just a hope/chance of beating all those other teams to keep that record. Could he potentially do it? I am not sure, since I believe 50 is a pretty old age… Maybe if he was a kicker/punter, but even those positions could put potential risk on a person’s body.
I don’t know what L.A. is trying to prove, and I don’t know which particular teams they are looking to snag up. I know from what I have read & heard that they want to use the L.A. stadium for two teams.. One of them the likely San Diego Chargers. Well that would be a simple transition for that team since they are not leaving the state. Any SD Charger fan from the L.A. area woudl be thrilled, while die-hard fans from S. Diego would be really pissed that their commute to go watch a game has increased by a large sum. Minnesota has had the Vikings for nearly 50 years (50 years this season, right?), so for them to move would basically be a punch to the gut of all fans from Minnesota. No Vikings fan wants to see the team move….
What we need is media to help out for a change.. We need the media to state in an article stating why Zygi is pushing for a new stadium. Saying, that with the NFL revenue sharing, he is coming in second to last barely staying afloat and big-time money makers like Jerry Jones are breathing down his neck since the Metrodome isn’t pulling in the revenue that it should. Than, someone needs to inform the public, that if the tax that created the Metrodome existed years ago and also this present day, the state should have the funds of supporting a new stadium… Break it down into black & white so people understand better. The media does seem to be all about criticizing politcians and bringing them down, so why not this time?? If the Vikings were to move, that’s just one less thing they can report on.
The Dreaded, Numbered, Itemized List
1. Not every important thing in life is a matter to be decided by short-sighted, conventional economic thinking.
a. You don’t tell your daughter or mother or spouse to just get the most money every time she has sex.
b. You don’t toss a couple C-notes onto the table after Thanksgiving dinner to show your mother-in-law how much you appreciated the meal she has cooked for you.
c. You don’t sell your soul to the devil at any price, unless of course you are scumbag or a Satanist.
d, You don’t underestimate the psychological pain Packer Backers can and will inflict upon your children and your children’s children when they tell them that your state can’t afford NFL football like theirs can.
e. You don’t fail to consider how much you will enjoy being in the Packer viewing area for future NFL TV broadcasts.
2. If you do use money in your thought processes, you need to consider more than the cost of a stadium and what numbers actually mean when you write them down.
a. Some other state that is 19 billion dollars deeper in debt than yours is actually can steal your NFL franchise away from you, and it might take decades to get one back, so consider how much a new stadium will cost your kids in 2030 and then figure out which insane billionaire it is that is going to want to buy them one after this debacle with no public financial help involved.
b. Do you really think you can get the Gophers baseball team to make up the rent losses on the Dome when the Vikings leave by paying more rent for a few college games, and if not who will pony up the funding to tear the Dome down?
c. Look at how much it costs for a season to get to see all the games of an NFL team not in your regional viewing area (namely the Vikings) on DirecTV.
d. Is the only valid or important use of gambling revenues in Minnesota to put a few Native Americans behind the wheel of either a white Cadillac or a black Lincoln SUV?
3. When politicians decide to do things which infringe upon your life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, it is your patriotic duty to make the Constitution work by showing them first hand what unemployment actually looks like.
4. Not all billionaires are alike. Some want to invest money in your state. Others want to invest theirs in my state instead. Whose side are you on?
by Elgar on Jun 2, 2010 2:40 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
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