The Article Where Ted Heaps Praise on Tarvaris Jackson
by Ted Glover on May 24, 2010 10:28 PM CDT
in Minnesota Vikings
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Since Tarvaris Jackson was drafted in 2006 to be the Quarterback of the Future, he has gone from largely unknown draft prospect, to raw rookie with a lot of talent, to a guy that can either be a) a legitimate NFL quarterback, or b) a guy that has no business being in the NFL, depending on what camp you pitch your tent in. In short, he's the football version of the health care bill, the global warming debate, and the Gulf Oil Spill all rolled into one. But you know what? Everybody can get off his ass. Right now.
This isn't to advocate Tarvaris Jackson over Brett Favre. I mean really, sometimes I like taking a contrarian position, but I'm not here to ruin a promising (?) blogging career in one embarrassing moment, or series of moments. I'll leave that to Lindsay Lohan. No, I want to tell Tarvaris Jackson Thank You for being such a professional in the way he has handled his very public demotion better than most of us would have.
I mean, let's think about everything he has gone through since he was plucked from relative 1-AA obscurity in 2006. He was immediately dubbed The Quarterback of the Future, and hyped up by coach Brad Childress to reinforce to fans that he picked the right guy; all the while we watched a noodle-armed Brad Johnson run the most brutal and predictable offense I have watched in my lifetime. I mean, it was worse than the Transformers sequel. Jackson started two games at the end of that season, and he looked far from NFL-ready, but the season was lost, so hey, let the kid get some on the job training.
2007 was kind of a one step forward, two steps back season for Jackson. He looked okay at times, but managed to look horrid at Detroit (4 picks in a loss), and arguably hit his low point in a miserable 6-19 performance against Dallas. But at times, he looked downright legitimate. In short, he was learning on the job, and was given a very short leash. The Vikings improved to 8-8 and missed the playoffs, but the season finale OT loss at Denver was Jackson's season in a nutshell. He looked terrible for three quarters (although he threw a BEAUTIFUL ball to Troy WIlliamson early in the game that should've been a TD but was...wait for it...dropped) but lead a furious 4th quarter comeback that got the game tied late. So you could see signs of maturity, and the thought that was that the job was Jackson's to lose heading into 2008.
And lose it he did, looking terrible in an 0-2 start in what was suposed to be a playoff team. Chilly, feeling the heat from ownership and the fans, inserted Gus Frerotte as the starter, and the team responded, clawing to a 7-5 record before Gus got hurt. Enter TJ, who went on the road and beat Detroit, went on the road and threw 4 TD's in an Arizona ass kicking, looked good in a loss at home to Atlanta, and then beat a getting-ready-for-the-playoffs Giants team to win the division. For his efforts, he was named the starter for the playoff game against Philadelphia...and looked terrible, throwing a pick-6 that changed the entire complexion of the game.
So in the off-season, the Vikings, in an effort to light a fire under TJ and give him competition for the starting job, traded for Sage Rosenfels. John David Booty added comic relief, and broke in the #4 jersey, keeping it warm for the eventual arrival of the iconic Brett Favre, immediately making any and all QB competitions up to that point moot and completely irrelevant.
Like Jay Leno.
It would've been easy, real easy, to pitch a fit and demand a trade. But he didn't. He held his tongue and said all the right things. He vehemently denied asking for a trade, and said all the right things in the immediate aftermath of the Favre signing. There was a possibility that there could've been a fractured locker room, with some players backing Favre and others backing Jackson. Yes, Favre helped diffuse the situation with an address to the team right after he signed, but so did Jackson. He did everything that was asked of him, and essentially played a mop-up role throughout the season. In relief of Favre during garbage time, Jackson looked accurate and relaxed. He also looked like he was having a good time, something we didn't see very often in his first three years.
Now, as Viking Nation awaits for the inevitable announcement that Favre is returning, Jackson is the starter for Favre in absentia while Favre thinks of reasons not to come to OTA's and training camp (and hey, that's not a dig on Favre. If I could convince my bosses to pay me and then tell me I didn't have to go to work, I'd do it. So would you. And for a lot less than $13 million).
And how has Jackson handled himself? Like a mature, dare I say, leader? Check this quote out, when asked about the whole Bonnie Favre situation:
"I've been through so much the last couple of years, it's kind of like, 'Everything happens for a reason,'" he said. "I'm not giving up on anything, but just let it play how it's going to play because you can't control it."
He also said he benefitted from sitting behind Favre, and drew laughs from the press when he played coy about when or if Favre was coming back.
While 2009 was a memorable season for the Minnesota Vikings, it was, in some ways, forgettable for Tarvaris Jackson. And he dealt with those twists and turns as well as anyone could, and he deserves recognition for that.
I don't know what his long term future is with the Vikings, or whether or not he is the long term answer at the quarterback position.
But I do know that when Favre retires, this team can be his for the taking, because instead of pulling a Terrell Owens and bitching his way out of town, he became the consummate teammate and won a lot of respect from the fans and the team.
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Amen
Let’s hope it is like Steve Young sitting behind Joe Montana.
It may take a village to raise a child, but it takes a Viking to raze a village.
+ 7
My thoughts Exactly. He’s improved every year.
He's still the same Jackson...
Tearful article really pulled the Oprah out of me but at the end of the day he is a JaMarcuss Russell like QB. Can’t hack the most prestigious position in football, he just can’t. I highly recommend the UFL or even XFL for him.
by TheBengalAbroad on May 24, 2010 10:52 PM CDT reply actions
TJack, flawed as he may be
is ten times the quarterback JaMarcus Russell will ever be. Compare their stats. Compare the testimonials from their teammates. That’s not fair to Jackson at all.
by princelyfrank on May 24, 2010 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
At this point, it is a severe exaggeration to compare any QB to Russell that isn’t named Leaf. Period.
The kid has worked hard, shown a lot of maturity and improved every year. Even if he doesn’t amount to more than a career backup in the NFL, he will have done a hell of a lot better than 95% of college QB’s that try to make it in this league. At least show some respect for that.
by Cobra312004 on May 24, 2010 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Point Taken
Ok, point taken. He’s no 300lbs when he comes to camp. Respect given.
by TheBengalAbroad on May 25, 2010 7:24 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Ridiculous...
Kind of like the fact you find yourself on OUR site…. You may have given him some respect but it’s hard to respect such a ridiculous response. You ever watch the NFL? Maybe you should, it’s a great sport…
ouch
Orange moses, relax. Its just a personal opinion. I thought he had his shot and did not pull through. The article makes a great point of how well he has taken it over the past few years.
by TheBengalAbroad on May 25, 2010 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Jackson doesn’t come to camp weighing nearly 300 pounds. And unlike Russell, he puts good games together from time to time (as noted above). I’m sorry but that’s one of the most ridiculous thoughts I have ever encountered.
Pirates, Vikings, Hokies. I'm used to heartbreak. At least I have the Penguins....
"When I put on my uniform, I feel I am the proudest man on earth."
-The Great One
by blackjackfishtaco on May 24, 2010 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Not even close
Ignore Childress’s reach with picking TJ in the 2nd and think of him as a 4-5th round pick and you’ll see the comparison isn’t valid. You can’t fault TJ for being asked for more than he was capable of providing.
He needed the 3+years of bench like other QBs picked in mid to late rounds get. Instead he learned on the job and he was exactly what he should have been, raw with glimpses of real talent.
Now that he’s had the chance to sit back and learn, we may get to see what he really is capable of.
remember also that QB's in the 4-6 round pan out about 5% of the time.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
1-AA to the NFL
Has got to be harder than coming from Division 1, lets say LSU! He is probably a lot better now than most would think. I would like to see him behind center one day even if it isn’t for the Vikings.
I’m pulling for a guy that has handled himself like a class act through his up and down tenure with the Vikes. It would be great to see him shut up some peoples collective mouths.
Favre's ankle, Starcaps BS and hopefully a busy Piston offseason, oh my. Go Netherlands/Holland/Dutch Soccer(no its not Football)! Also, Lesnar, Lesnar, Lesnar!!!!!!!
I think Jackson
is far too unpredictable to really make a fair call on. Sure, I remember the Cardinals game. But I also remember the 07’ Redskins game. Also the beginning of the 08 season you pointed out. Most of the time, Jackson has been known to crack under pressure. And his dependability is questionable at best. Certainly we can praise him for not throwing a big fit, as that shows maturity on his part. But that doesn’t mean he’s a legitmate option down the road. Has he proved? Definitely. Has he shown in any way that he is ready to become a long term option for the Vikings? No.
Jackson looked good in the 08 preseason when he was expected to be a starter. But’s that just what it was. Pre-season. Then he comes out, has two lousy games. Then comes back at the end. Takes the Vikings to 3-1 as a starter. And in the game that matters the most, he chokes. He showed stints during garbage time. But that’s just what it is. GARBAGE time. Jackson, doesn’t perform well under pressure. Can he get better with time? This will be his fifth year, and quite frankly I think that developing time was over two years ago. Could I be wrong? Incredibly. I mean he did learn a thing or two from the master. But in a game where we HAVE to win, see if Jackson can put more than 6 plays together without it resulting in a punt and then we can talk progression.
A couple things
Is the article about him being a legitimate option down the road? No. It’s about people treating him unfairly.
Did he look good in the 08 preseason? Yes, but he got injured in the 2nd game. It’s hard to say what effect that had on those first two games that got him benched. Was the playoff game against Philly a choke? You say yes but remember that it was his first postseason start (which typically means any QB will struggle, history backs this up) and that he was under more pressure than Favre had against New Orleans. He didn’t play well in the game but my point is a sample size of one is hardly evidence that he chokes in big games. It is his 5th year but we didn’t see him at all in his 4th year, which was his first time watching a veteran from the bench (which was the plan for him from the start).
I think he has earned some respect with how he has handled himself throughout his career. That may not buy him the “benefit of the doubt” with lots of people but at the very least I think that is well worth a “wait and see” approach. We simply haven’t seen him in meaningful minutes recently enough to make a fair judgment of where his development is as of 5/25/10.
There have been plenty of big-time QBs who've had much worse playoff games
than TJack’s supposed giant stinker. Eli Manning, Donovan McNabb, Jake Delhomme, even Brett Favre have put up similar stinkers in the playoffs against similarly high-quality defenses, some of them many times.
One bad game does not mean TJack will never be anything. He threw a pick six that ultimately lost us that game. You know who else has done that in the playoffs, multiple times? Brett Favre.
With TJack, we need to see him play again before we can really judge him. Right now, this is all Small Sample Size Theater.
by princelyfrank on May 25, 2010 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Nope it was the multitude before that
which caused me to doubt his veracity as a good QB.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Your definition of "Multitude" seems to be flawed...
He has 19 starts in his career. That is pretty much one season and some playoff games (or one season if the NFL succeeds in extending the schedule again). Especially if you exclude those 2 starts his rookie season, which he probably shouldn’t have started.
Hardly a large sample size, especially when you’re looking at the first 19 starts of a player’s career.
Your right and if he had been way laid by injuries it would be more apt
but the reason he has so few starts is in large part because he wasn’t cutting it. In 2008 Childress wasn’t lik man I wish I could play TJ, but we’re going to have to go with Frerrote. No, he pulled TJ because he wasn’t doing well and he was handicapping their offense by not knowing it well enough to run the whole thing.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
No
Childress pulled TJ as a PR move. That’s all it was. You’re gonna tell me that Jackson just miraculously realized how to play the game in the Arizona game? The way I see it, Childress was doing horrible playcalling in the Colts game, and they picked up on it and shut down the offense. Jackson didn’t audible, because he didn’t want Childress on his nuts. We lost the game, Childress benched Jackson so the fans wouldn’t revolt, and shoved in Frerotte. Luckily for him, it worked out for a few games.
+7
That’s what I thought too…. and also it wasn’t TJ who dropped a sure TD catch that also lead to TJ’s bench… Shiancoe
by midnightwonder on May 26, 2010 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Ok you think it was a PR move
Lets go back to that fateful year and look at our man TJ. the year before his int to td rate was 12/9 which isn’t good in 2008 he obviously decided that needed to be worked on so he started throwing the ball at peoples shoes. Now they did remove TJ from the starting position, and it was about Chilly’s job. However, at the same time you have to realize some other things. First Chilly had a news conference about it where he stated he had brought TJ back to his office and asked him how he felt about the games. TJ told him that he didn’t feel like he was trying to win any more he just felt like he was trying not to lose. As well, I was also one of the people screaming at the play calling of Childress that year. The coach also stated that TJ was not comfortable with the play book completely. Which is why when Gus came in we actually started calling different plays. Yes I understand Chilly still had a pretty vanilla offense but it was much more complex than the first two games. Why else did we start winning even though Ferrote didn’t have much better stats than TJ?
This is it, people can state it was becuase chilly wanted to keep his job. But if TJ was doing an acceptable job chilldress wouldn’t have had to make that choice in the first place no?
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
chilly was trying to save his own job after his wonderful f.o. decision
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
To be fair here
He certainly didn’t lose us the first two games of the ‘08 season. He played pretty well against Green Bay. What cost us that game was terrible special teams play, because we had that long TD returned on us, and would up losing by all of 5 points. He had an int late in the game that sealed the defeat, yeah, but Shiancoe had a dropped TD again. Against the Colts, it wasn’t him as much as it was the playcalling. It was far too predictable. He led us down the field for five field goals though.
As for the playoff game, yeah, he was horrible in the second half. The first half he was pretty good, pick 6 excluded, but in the second, when it was just pass-pass-pass, he was horrible. Again because of playcalls. Not to mention the fact the Eagles had a great defense that year. Ask Eli Manning about it, who did worse than Jackson against the same defense. The same Eli Manning who won a superbowl just a year earlier.
And to say he needs to put more than 6 plays together is just ridiculous, because he’s done that before easily, even in the playoff game. Now, saying he needs to come out in a 2-minute drill, down by 4, and win the game before you talk progression, that’s much better. That I could understand.
Well if you remember what Childress was takling about at the time
he was stating he coudln’t open up the play book because TJ didn’t understand it all. That’s why when Gus came out we started to run a more open offense.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Aaand it was pretty much Childress covering his ass
because I’m pretty sure they opened up the playbook in that Arizona game, and look how it turned out. That’s on Childress, not Jackson.
I'm not sure i understand this line of reasoning
When Gus took over the offense got much more multidemensional.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
It got more multidimensional because they opened up the playbook. They didn’t do that in the Colts/Packers game. It wasn’t Jackson’s fault so much as it was Childress’s playcalls. When they did open up the book for Jackson, he responded fairly well.
You do remember Childress coming out and stating that TJ did not understand the playbook don't you
I do, I remember itbecause I was like he’s been here two years now and still is having issues with the play book?
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Good article.
Finally some respect is being shown to this guy. Whether you think he is a terrible QB or our possible future the guy has shown class and determination throughout his career as a Viking.
I hope he proves many fans wrong and fulfills his potential in the near future as there are few NFL players that have dealt with the various circumstances that Jackson has endured without complaint or resentment. Whatever people think of his skills he at least handles himself in a professional manner which is becoming a lost art for NFL players.
Also, it is very nice to see a pro-TJ thread that I had no part in starting : )
very well said after all is said and done t-jack is a viking after all
i personally think t-jack is where he is at for a reason and the future will prove that out … he has handled himself with a professional character that is not common in todays athletes … i felt he got blindsided in ’08 when he was benched after only two games and two interceptions … he and “his team” had lost to the packers and the colts … how shocking and i do not think they were picked to win either of those two … so the two toughest games are out of the way and they put “gus” in and he does a decent job til he goes down with an injury (cant remember what that injury was or if it was) … t-jack came back and did what #4 couldnt do in arizona (no disrespect to #4) and yeah he and “his team” lost a playoff game to a very good eagles team … t-jack is an amazin athlete and now has had an opportunity to get the kind of coaching and mentoring that it takes in this league right now … so lets talk backups for a second … if your starter went down this season who would you rather hav … caleb hanie or brett basanez (bears) / shaun hill or drew stanton (lions) / matt flynn or chris pizzotti (packers) …. i would prefer t-jack with sage backin him up … in fact in the entire NFL there is only one backup quarterback i would prefer over t-jack and that is a guy wearin #7 for the eagles … t-jack will be a starter in the NFL some day and i for one just hope he doesnt come back and make minnesota pay for a big mistake if they let him go to the competition
MGR4FUN
We might not be keeping him at all
From what I’ve heard, or haven’t, there’s been no talks with his agents regarding an extension. The only reason he’s still on the team this year is because of the CBA. He may decide to walk next year, especially if Favre, as the Front Office suspects, has 2 years left in him.
OK OK OK
Sorry about this everyone, and very nice article Mr. Glover. However the article is not based on anything other than TJ is taking his second demotion in two years well. How about this for a take. TJ has to take it in stride because even as a third round tender no one wanted him. The article speaks of TJ not as a player but as a person. I’m sure he’s a great guy, hell I’M a great guy! (realy I am, beer helps) however I’m absolutely positive that none of you would want me to play QB.
I could go on and on about TJ and how he should not be considered our QB. From the fact that he is a terrible decission maker to his terrible passing mechanics. I’m sorry to rain on the happy parade but seriously people do any of you REALLY think this guy is our future?
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
and yes I know my arguing about TJ is almost cliche.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Who is Tavaris Jackson?
I’m sure he’s a great guy, hell I’M a great guy! (realy I am, beer helps) however I’m absolutely positive that none of you would want me to play QB.
I do. I want you to play QB for the Packers this year, replacing Rodgers. That would be a good fit. Or you could play for the Saints this year. I suspect they don’t know what pie is down there, and you could improve their disposition by the slice :)
From the fact that he is a terrible decission maker to his terrible passing mechanics. I’m sorry to rain on the happy parade but seriously people do any of you REALLY think this guy is our future?
I think it’s great that you felt the need to provide a balancing response to the warm fuzzy up above your comment. You’ll be a big hit when the Fairness Act is passed. Ok. So maybe that was mean. This is what happens when I don’t get my first cup of java in me before I start typing.
In all seriousness, Brother Grime, you’re as far into the eerie twilight zone realm of Speculation as the others when it comes to T-Jack, because T-Jack never got to play enough downs to show us who he is NOW. Today. We know about his issues two years ago, but he just sat behind arguably the best QB in the NFL last year and with his work ethic, I’m sure he managed to learn something. Also, I noticed when he did get his 2 or 3 plays of actual face-time, he was looking remarkably Favre-like back there behind center. Right down to the patented leg-lift and hard-count. It was kinda cute, like watching a baby-chick imitating it’s momma :) . But it also made me wonder…. who is T-Jack NOW? Today?
Let’s give the young man a few games to show us who he is now before we toss him under the bus. After all, if he turns out to still suck, we can always tie him to the bumper and take him for a ride :)
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
That's fine, when do you decide that someone isn't worth it?
How many season have to go by? I’m just saying this because he wasn’t the prototypical 1st round QB to start with. As well he hasn’t had that great of stats in his starts with Minnesota as is. You can sit there and say that the man is going to be the next Montana but I seriously doubt it. I know I sound like a hater, and honestly I dont’ hate TJ, I’m not a fan of the team when he’s playing QB though. We had good teams when he QB’d for us. Now I’m not saying he couldn’t be a Trent Dilfer for the Vikes in a couple of years but I don’t know to many people who would be excited about Dilfer being the franchise QB for a team.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
He has, what, roughly 2 seasons worth of games
under his belt, I think. Actual games. That’s too soon to judge, I think. As its been hammered out before, the man seems to improve every season. That shouldn’t be deniable. Has he reached his cieling? Who knows. Nobody can say for sure yet. However, next year, if he does stick around and Favre retires for good this time, I’d be willing to let him have another go at it.
Wow Grime, that is harsh
I’m not a fan of the team when he’s playing QB though
Lost a LOT of respect for you there Grime. Seriously. True fans never stop cheering for their team, no matter who is playing or how badly at whatever position. This thought has never even crossed my mind, much less been put down in print somewhere others could see.
I was prepared to answer your arguments but it’s not even worth my time now. What I will say is this:
seriously people do any of you REALLY think this guy is our future?
Yes. I have since we drafted him (Ted can testify to this actually, as well as a few others on here). And judging by the responses, I’d say I’m not the only one who feels that way now.
Feel free to take what I say in any way you wish
However, while I will root for Minnesota no matter what (and have through worse QB’s than TJ) I am not a happy camper when he’s our option. I would hope that you would be able to work that out. Anyway, if people would like to live in TJ land obviously your more than welcome to.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
What other way is there to take it?
I like watching you backpedal, but you wrote that. It’s pretty straightforward if you ask me.
Now I’m not saying he couldn’t be a Trent Dilfer for the Vikes in a couple of years but I don’t know to many people who would be excited about Dilfer being the franchise QB for a team.
I love your completely arbitrary assertion that his ceiling is Trent Dilfer with no basis other than your own perception. For the record, Jackson is already BETTER than Dilfer was.
That has always been my problem with him
It is the decision making at the line… He certainly has the tools but the great or elite ones (Brady, Manning, Favre, etc.) make the name under pressure and at the line. Not based on “tools”. Heck Brady, from an athletic tools perspective, isn’t even that good. But the brains, accuracy and ability to adjust and perform under pressure, is what makes him elite.
Brady got benched in Michigan
He had a couple of years to watch Drew Bledsoe play and then take over. And u think he’s good under pressure??
Did you even watch the Superbowl against the Giants?
Brady suceeded running a 5 wide offense. I am not saying that TJ is as good or better that TBrady. I just saying u need to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges
by midnightwonder on May 26, 2010 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Serious?
First off, couple of years?… You might want to check that statement….
Brady might quite possibly be the best QB of all time. To try and pick apart one year (The Giants SB year) is a pidgeon holed opinion. And I don’t even personally like the guy!
Lastly, to your point, they aren’t apples to apples and that was my point! TJ is nowhere even capable of being mentioned in the same sentence as those guys so your post is almost comical! Where did I say they were the same?… I didn’t!
You're correct.
Brady is one of the few quarterbacks who was good right off the bat and it didn’t take him too long to become great. A better comparison to provide hope that TJ hasn’t hit his ceiling yet is Drew Brees.
Both were 2nd round picks that had great RB’s to begin their career with, both were very inconsistent through their first three years, and both were pulled for vets like Frerotte and Flutie.
Now, I’m not saying TJ will ever be as good as Brees but their #’s through years 1-3 are similar so there is precedent for an average QB to flip the switch and become much better in his fourth year of playing time.
Hopefully TJ will make the leap if/when he gets his next chance post-Favre.
by CanadianViking on May 27, 2010 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Terrible mechanics?!?
If there’s one thing Jackson is praised for, it is his mechanics. He has a fluid dropback, sets his feet, holds the ball up high, compact throwing motion, and a nice spiral. Along with his strong arm and running ability, those reasons are precisely WHY they drafted him in the first place! Go back and read the scouting reports pre-draft. The knock was the small school and raw skills. The praise was for his athleticism and naturally good mechanics. The questions then and now center on whether he can master schemes, reading defenses, and display the kind of leadership that will make the players around him better, much like Favre did last year. He hasn’t shown those things quite yet, but I absolutely see potential there.
Sure in practice
Watch him run a game though, you see him throwing off his back foot, hop passes, throwing across his body. TJ is and always will be a camp warrior. It’s the pressure of the game that causes him to lose his touch.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Has there been any progress?
Has he made any strides since Favre and Sage have been there? With a bit more veteran presence?
Football is easy if you're crazy as hell
hard to tell when he's just playing the final couple of plays in a game
and most of those plays are hand offs.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
you see him throwing off his back foot, hop passes, throwing across his body
You do realize that what you are counting against TJ here is what we praise BF for right??
by midnightwonder on May 26, 2010 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Farve earned that praise
Farve has pulled that stuff for years and has showed that he can pull it off. There is no other QB in the league who can do what he does and get praised for it.
Trust me, of all the things you want TJ to learn from Brett, this is not one of them.
by PackApologist on May 26, 2010 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Why not?
If he’s gonna do it anyways we want him to learn from the master and be good at it.
Because
The reason Farve can pull it off is a mixture of arm strength, luck, and experience. It’s also something that just can’t be taught, either you have it or you don’t. Trust me, if TJ had it in the first place Lord Farve would not be on your team.
by PackApologist on May 27, 2010 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions
TJ has the arm.
He’s working on the experience and the luck?
You forgot skill.
If it is something that “can’t be taught”, then what does experience have to do with it? Experience has nothing to do with it, he did that stuff his rookie year.
You're right
Skill is a better word for that it factor that Farve can bring. Another term might be an it factor. It’s clique, but the dude makes plays happen.
As for experience, well it’s more of a trust built up than something that is learned from watching. Face it, TJ does not have that it factor. He can be a very competent QB, but not an elite difference maker.
by PackApologist on May 28, 2010 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Good mechanic???
Good mechanic against lesser competition is easy. But against good competition is the key. Favre throw of his back feet. But he also pump fake to hold the defender to make the throw.
I know nobody like to hear this but i don’t believe black QB could play well in pressure game. I said it. Each time my viking draft a black QB. I get really nervous.
... Why? Why does race have anything to do with it?
It’s a stupid arguement. Like how some teams took Toby Gerhart off their first-round draft boards because he is a white RB.
by Frost on May 25, 2010 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Seriously?
Doug Williams won a Super Bowl with the Redskins. If that’s not pressure, I don’t know what is. He also won the Super Bowl MVP award. Vince Young won Rookie of the Year, then had a tremendous run to close out the season when he regained his starting job last year. If there’s one generalization about black QB’s that I think is a fair one, it’s that they tend to be superior athletes. And no, there’s nothing racist about that, no matter how un-PC it may sound to the sensitive types. If anything, it’s a compliment. There’s a reason blacks dominate the rosters in football and basketball where sheer running and jumping ability are so important. We’re talking DNA here, and the numbers don’t lie. So on the black QB argument, I always cringe when I hear people postulate that there’s something inherently lacking in their mental makeup that hinders their pro prospects. (I’m not quoting you there, just tackling the more common argument I hear from others). I’d sooner believe it has to do with a habitual reliance on those above average athletic skills through high school and college that may make it easier to skate by without mastering the mental parts – understanding schemes, reading defenses, etc. By the time they face the elite competition of the NFL, those weaknesses are exposed, the QB is deemed a flop, and the whole ‘black QB’ argument rages on. I posted elsewhere that the same problem might be what hindered Everson Griffen from consistently playing to his full potential in college. He’s been called a 1st round talent, but with a 4th rounder’s production. He’s also been called a ‘physical freak’. My guess is that he dominated everybody on the field in high school because of God-given physical gifts, fooling himself along the way into believing that his game was more refined than it really was. Enter USC, and now he’s playing against other players not so far removed from his physical talents, and that lack of refinement is exposed and exploited by players who, lacking his physical gifts, have always had to work harder just to keep up. Jackson has shown a strong arm, and excellent ability to improvise with his legs on broken plays, and a good attitude in the face of adversity. What he needs to do now is refine his pro game by practicing like a guy whose feet are glued to the ground, relying only on his grasp of the playbook, his timing with receivers, and ability to understand whatever the defense puts up through film study and coaching. If/when he does that, I’ve every reason to believe he has plenty of brains to make a real QB out of himself in the NFL, and his athleticism will be an additional weapon that’s there when he needs it, but not the foundation of his whole game. There have been plenty of so-called ‘dummies’ who’ve been great pro QB’s. Dan Marino scored a 16 on the Wonderlic. Jackson beat him with 19.
Don't get me started
on Vietnamese QB’s….j/k. :D
William won?
That was a strike shorten season. He was so good that he could not keep his starting role the next season. Same with Randall Cunningham. If i remember right John Riggin rush for a thousand yards that day. Had Darrin Nelson caught the ball at the goal line we would have been in instead of Redskins. I did not say i am right. If i am wrong than prove it.
I don't know man Cunningham was a good QB
I liked him when he played for the Eagles and loved his ass when he kicked ass for Minnesota.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Yes, Williams won a Super Bowl and SB MVP award
And he lost his job the next season because of injuries.
super bowl, sounds like a high pressure game to me....sb mvp?....you don't say.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
+1
Yeah instead of taking steriods to get better in the offseason, He hurt his back running on the treadmill and the Skins let him go.
by midnightwonder on May 26, 2010 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions
vikefansd, your comment is discriminatory on the basis of race. your comment is racist.
I know nobody like to hear this but i don’t believe black QB could play well in pressure game. I said it. Each time my viking draft a black QB. I get really nervous.
but it is only your opinion. you are free to have one. my opinion is that your opinion is stoopid, because the premise for your opinion is based on racial prejudgement.
would you like me to prejudge you because you use a “calvin pissing” icon…by choice?
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
that's a bit different he did choose that so it does reflect upon his personality
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
rovibe already did......doug williams, super bowl mvp
the most important game of his life was his best. but hey, it was only the super bowl.
i guess the “brownskins” really kicked ass that day.
http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/history/mvp/sbxxii
http://www.ihavenet.com/nfl-superbowl-XXII-redskins-broncos.html
http://www.mahalo.com/doug-williams
don’t reply to any of my posts, vikefansd.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Well
He’s had 1 year under Favre… Several years as a Viking….
I think he deserves one last legitimate shot after the retirement of Favre. If he can’t learn after all those years with the addition of two years behind Favre, he is an obvious lost cause. But, I believe that he should show some huge improvements… Will it be good enough to show that he is an accurate passer, great decision maker, etc. etc.?? Time will tell, and we may not find out this year… But the more garbage time for T-Jax the better.. He needs to build up on confidence.
Good write up Ted.
But…
He held his tongue and said all the right things.
RELIEF! will do that to you.
I want TJack to be a successful Vikings QB, I really do. He just feels like a bust right now.
But if/when he’s our starter, I’ll still cheer for the Vikes!
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on May 25, 2010 9:26 AM CDT reply actions
He will never fit the 'bust' label.
Russell, Quinn, Couch, Leaf, Marinovich, etc… Those players were all busts, because they were drafted high, and expected to win early. Jackson was taken just one spot before the start of the third round. He was viewed as a project coming in, and has played like it, slowly improving along the way. He’s cheap, and at the very least, a valuable backup player. If all he ever does is fill the #2 spot in MN for a decade, then for the late 2nd rounder they spent to get him, he’s nowhere near a bust.
As the 'Quarterback of the Future'...
He’s a bust.
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on May 25, 2010 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Not Yet
Favre + 3 = ❼ = Vikings= 2009-2010 NFL Champions= New Stadium=Greatest Fans and Team!
by UnBannedVikingholic on May 25, 2010 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree
Hasn’t he shown improvement year after year?
Some will argue that he was thrown to the wolves a little on the too-soon side. When bringing in Favre, some teammates were still supporting T-Jack. He has beaten competition (besides Favre) time & time again. Even this year he did exceptionally well in garbage time. I think with another year behind Favre to help him learn a few tricks and more garbage time play he may get some confidence in him to be able to go out and start and play the big game. I think he folds a little under pressure and that is his only real big problem at the moment.. Let him get used to it… Maybe start trying to throw him in a little sooner when the game seems to be ours, but at a point if T-Jack screws up the game could change… Give him more passing plays in garbage time and so forth. Any garbage time QB can hand a ball off… At least this pre-season we should be able to see how well he can perform and if he will be worthy or not.
On a side note, imagine if Webb was an amazing QB from the get-go with lots of potential…. Imagine doing trick plays with Favre/Webb..
Webb takes the snap, pitches to Favre & Webb shoots down the field and catches the ball from Favre.. Sweet to see, but likely doubtful.
Haha I love the fantasy plays
Favre + 3 = ❼ = Vikings= 2009-2010 NFL Champions= New Stadium=Greatest Fans and Team!
by UnBannedVikingholic on May 25, 2010 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually it sounds like your imagining for TJ and Web
Both of them have not shown much of anything to shout about. I know absense makes the heart grow fonder but I bet if I was here in 2008 I would have been hearing people screaming bloody murder about the man.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Eh
Nothing wrong with being optimistic about a player who may be a hidden gem.
Could Webb be that gem?? I think he would fit the gem-role more as a receiver than a QB. Especially if Favre returns… They may view him as a potential future QB.. But no reason to put so much on his plate to make him be a bust from the get-go too.
I have heard T-Jax has had decent mechanics and a strong arm.. I believe the physical attributes are there.. The rest is mental, which doesn’t come easily. It comes with hard work, dedication, and experience…. Which behind Favre just makes it all that easier to learn.
We may not see much more from T-Jax this year if Favre returns, but sitting as a Viking for that many years with two of them being behind Favre, I believe he’ll have a great chance to become a future star.. Unless the team moves and breaks 1/2 of them up and into new teams, etc. etc.
Didn't you hear people scream
bloody murder about Favre in the NFC CG last year?
If Webb was an amazing QB from the get-go
don’t you think he would’ve been taken before the 6th round or wherever we drafted him?
Hope spring eternal in the minds that deny statistical evidence
And yes I know you can make statistics say anything. Including TJ has improved every year since he got here and that he has a 152 passer rating in 2010…. I can also state that Hitler wasn’t that bad because he killed absolutely no Tazmanians in his death camps. (yeah I know hitler = bad)
Statistics, useless information or useful information useless joined together…
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
the first post
I want TJack to be a successful Vikings QB, I really do. He just feels like a bust right now.
But if/when he’s our starter, I’ll still cheer for the Vikes!
Thank you Cobra.
I appreciate your effort to make me a better fan.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
"...pitch a fit and demand a trade."
Jackson didn’t “pitch a fit and demand a trade” because even he knows the no team will trade for him and if they want him as a third-string quarterback, they can just wait for the Vikings to not offer him another contract and sign him on the cheap. The only reason Jackson is not the third-string QB for the Vikings (indeed, the only reason he is still on the team) is because if Chilly released him, then Chilly would have to admit he was wrong. And, Chilly’s ego will not allow him to admit that.
A statement based on fluff not fact.
I understand posters making statements based on what they observe about Jackson. He draws much emotion on both sides of that debate. But to state that the Ego of Coach Childress is affecting his decision making is absurd. This is the same coach that pulled Jackson from the starting role. This is the same coach that hired Brett Farve. It is the same coach that has let other draft picks go because they did not pan out.
Since 2007 when Mr. Spielman arrived the player personnel decisions have been a joint decision process between Spielman and Childress. Mr. Spielman is not vested in T-Jack. Yet he has enough faith to not draft Jimmy Clausen or Colt McCoy to replace him. Now that could be because of something about Clausen or McCoy. But it is much more likely that it has to do with the skill level observed of T-Jack and probably Little to do with anyone’s EGO.
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
by lifelongvike on May 25, 2010 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
The front office could...
View T-Jack as a slight bust, but, the reason for not releasing him could be that the Vikings are highly invested in him… With Sage & T-Jack likely to have 2 years behind Favre, I wouldn’t be surprised to see one of the two end up on another team next year for a team thinking like this..“Well he sat behind Favre for two years, you know he must of learned something good, and I bet he can be a valid starter or at least a 2nd-string QB…. He’s worth it to pull the trigger on..”
Favre has said that it took him time to read defenses and even he can be fooled now days.
T-Jack just needs time in the pocket to learn that.. It’s an on-the-job training…
Same goes for, confidence & leadership… Over time, those things just come naturally.
I doubt his NFL career would be over. If teams are still giving contracts to guys like Jp Losman, Charlie Frye, JT O’Sullivan, Delhomme I think Jackson would be just fine. I also can’t find a stat to prove my point but I would put money on it that there were close to zero RFA who moved to another team.
Tarvaris is a tremendous backup and as a starter time can only tell ........
He has proved that he can be productive in the NFL . He doesn’t yet show the skill set to be a top 10 QB . He can’t , I repeat he can not disect sophisticated defenses or prove that he can consistently win games in the 4th quarter (a tall order for any QB ) . Money-wise he fits the backup role and as I stated before Sage may be the one on the trading block . WASH in a package deal maybe . They could use a vet backup as Brett shows mobility .
I hate to ask but what does this mean?
They could use a vet backup as Brett shows mobility .
The Redskins have Colt Brennan as a back-up. Why would they want Sage.
As a team headed into the playoffs the Vikings have three established QBs that have started in the NFL. Why in the world would you want to not have that. Brett might have been an iorn man in the past but he can get hurt just like every other QB in the league.
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
by lifelongvike on May 25, 2010 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I would gladly take
Tjack or Sage off your hands. I am not comfortable with our “back-up”
Football is easy if you're crazy as hell
jeff garcia? marc bulger? you guys look light on experience at back up.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
That is an understatement
I am not a fan of Jeff Garcia, i would much rather we went after Bulger as opposed to resigning Brunell.
Football is easy if you're crazy as hell
garcia is shorter and mobile like brees, bulger is kinda pocket like tho.
but, i wouldn’t be suprised to see either of them getting picked up by someone
by the time training camps begin.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
I like the fact that Bulger is considerably younger. You never want your starter to be out of the game, but if that did occur, i would rather have a younger QB with some good experience to rely on as opposed to throwing an older QB in there. Garcia is about 39, Bulger is about 33. I would rather bring someone on who could be the 2nd QB for a few years and a developmental project behind him. Just my personal preference.
Pre-emptive comment. This is by no means a shot at BF. Not many QB’s can play at such a high level at that stage in there careers. BF and Warner are anomalies in this league.
Football is easy if you're crazy as hell
none taken, i think you are right about the age factor w/ bulger.
especially with a guy like canfield on your roster. they seem a little more similar in qb style. i’m a garcia fan. i wish the vikes would have picked him up a few years ago, he’s an underdog winner guy.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
actually, i wanted the nfl to institute the "doug flutie award"
for underdog, over-acheivers who just win and prove people wrong by winning, while they are being doubted by their own teams.
i would have issued it retro-actively for the last 10 years and just traded off years between garcia and brees alternating years.
garcia played in cfl, and came in behind two hof’ers in s.f., bress got cast off, or…“sold down the rivers”. and then both became pro bowlers.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Flutie and Garcia lit the CFL up like crazy, just like Warren Moon. Was nice to see them move up to the big league and play at a high level.
In regards to Brees and SD, well i think it was a calculated risk on SD’s part. That shoulder injury could have gone just as easily the other way. If anyone is kicking themselves it has to be Miami who had the initial inside track at landing Brees.
Football is easy if you're crazy as hell
and then there's pennington.....
he’s great…no wait, he’s hurt….he’s smart, no wait, he can’t throw the long ball. i don’t know how frustrating that must have been for miami fans.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Drill, Baby, Drill
Much learning is required to become an effective NFL quarterback, but if you have the arm, you’ve got a shot. Mr. Jackson has the arm. (Anyone saying otherwise should test their claim by having T-Jack hit them in the face with a football.) Some people learn in a shorter time than others, but Terry Bradshaw is a case in point to indicate that you don’t have to be like Nathan Myhrvold to learn to do this stuff.
As I have mentioned previously, I once lived in Metro Atlanta and watched that deer-in-the-headlights Falcon’s rookie, Brett Favre, complete his first NFL season, in which the only passes he threw that were caught were hauled in by the Washington Redskins. I continue to maintain to you that Falcon fans would have gladly seen him traded to Green Bay for a hockey puck, and they really don’t do much hockey down there in Georgia.
Until we open the box and look at a 2010 model Tarvaris Jackson in a difficult NFL game, we don’t know if he’s dead or alive.
terry bradshaw, rich gannon, jeff garcia, troy aikman....
elgar, you raise a good point.
bradshaw struggled a lot his first few years and became a hof’er. but, he had the opportunity to play and make mistakes in order to develop. rich gannon was tried, jettisoned as a back up, had an opportunity to play for a mediocre team and develop into a pro bowl qb. jeff garcia made it after getting a chance to play and develop in canada and then struggle at first in s.f. troy aikman got his butt kicked and stunk it up for a full year before he developed into a winner. he had the chance to stink it up, and it paid off.
t-jax hasn’t really had a sustained period without injury, gus ferrote (i.e. chilly trying to save his job), brad johnson, brett favre….i think that the situation hasn’t presented itself for him to get a legitimate sustained chance without the hook being waved, and the tides working against him.
what if drew bledsoe hadn’t gotten injured in 2000? what would the trajectory of brady’s career have been? what if trent green hadn’t gotten injured? and what of kurt warner’s career? we don’t know. and i think we just don’t know enough about t-jack yet.
i don’t think t-jax has had the right opportunity. i think he got put in there too early and pushed to sink-or-swim too early in his development. i think he needed to learn to be a good back up for a few years before putting him in there as the guy. i hope that that false start didn’t derail his outlook. i want to see him get a real shot when favre is gone. and i hope he suceeds, even if it is somewhere else (which might be a good scenerio for him).
i’m rooting for him.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
This
sums up about all of my opinions as well. Didn’t T-Jax have a better first 16 full games than Arod? I remember somebody saying something about it here and looking at the stats.. and Jackson did have more wins. I guess I can’t put all my faith into just that but it looked good.
Mmn, yeah
he had more wins, but if you look at the QB position, Aaron Rodgers had much better statistics. Granted, Rodgers also had better recievers to work with than what Jackson has had, but, even with my purple and gold shades on, I can’t put Jackson in the same league with Rodgers. Not yet, anyway.
Oh yeah
By far. But I just like to rub it into my gf’s face!
Be that as it may and I truly don't want to hear about your sex life
I believe Rodgers first year GB was decimated by injuries, while TJ had AD running the ball like a nimble freight train. As well the O line that year was solid as a rock.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
apples to oranges
rodgers was a 1st round pick (from pac-10) that fell to 24th pick in 2005.
t-jack was a 2nd round pick (from whaa?) that was a reach at 32nd pick in 2006.
green bay had a starting qb and o-system in place and established.
rodgers wasn’t going to play regardless of his health. thus rodgers
was groomed for three years.
minnesota had regime change, leprechaun sightings, no solid qb situation,
no established receivers, and a new offense. t-jack was not groomed, was
thrown in early, and the f.o. f’ed up and played rotating qb’s while hoping that
they would find a lucky charm.
apples to oranges.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
by jethrophet on May 26, 2010 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Truly true and I gave ya a rec for the leprechaun
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
funny, i didn't know whether to
“rec” the leprechaun post, “flag” it, or “both”….i just think there needs to be a
new catagory “grime’d”. either way, i’m still laughing at that one.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
T-Jack
The post here makes very good points. I, for one, like T-Jack and have an overall positive outlook on his future.
But for those in doubt, the bottom line is “who knows”? T-Jack might indeed be a very good QB in the future, or maybe not. Some things to consider:
1. Don’t discount the good attitude he has shown. Yeah he doesn’t have a choice but to play backup now, he can’t be drafted now, but attitude counts.
2. Backing up Favre is like a master course in NFL quarterbacking. Look at Aaron Rodgers performance. Maybe T-Jack comes back next year (2011) and performs better than anyone expects.
3. T-Jack wasn’t that bad before. Not elite, but not terrible either. Inconsistent best describes it.
4. T-Jack started with a very young group of receivers, without the kind of veteran leadership you need. Perhaps Berrian is the exception. But now this group is seasoned and playing at a high level. Favre has brought them along and T-Jack should benefit.
You simply can’t assume that if T-Jack can’t play at Favre’s level that means he isn’t a good option for us going forward. We should expect that, in all likelihood, we won’t have a future HOF QB for us after Favre leaves. But that’s ok.
You also can’t pretend to know how good or bad T-Jack will be.
After Favre is gone, go out and draft a QB, maybe get a veteran backup, etc., like you usually do, a couple of guys to push T-Jack, and then see how he responds. Then play your best QB.
Since we aren’t going to get a lot in trade for T-Jack, and since right now he is clearly the number 2 QB on this team, there really isn’t much to decide this year. Our QB spot is stable and solid when Favre comes back.
by HammeroftheGods on May 25, 2010 3:07 PM CDT reply actions
GREAT ARTICLE
T-Jack definitely deserves props for the way he’s handled things. Way to recognize that.
Give the guy some credit
I’ve always thought this guy had potential, especially when he had a quartterback rating only second to Peyton Manning during his return of the 2008 season. He’s had his meldowns, but Jackson has learned as a player and matured greatly. Get off his ass.
The thing about the QB rating, though
is that it came against bad pass-defenses, firstly, and secondly it was mostly his recievers. The Lions game, for instance, where he had something like a 153.2 PR or something high like that, it was the recievers who got him his yardage. Most of the throws were just short screens, and Taylor made the play to get the TD/Yards.
But you’re right, he has learned and matured. Nobody should argue that. He’s statistically gotten better every year.
The NFL today seems to have little patience for developing QB's.
I don’t think T-Jack got much of a chance and for me the jury is still out, but I can’t say that I’m overly impressed by his acceptance of his current role. I mean hell, he was shopped to the entire league and there were no takers. I’ll give him credit for not trying to rock the boat, but he’s pretty much on the boat with no life-jacket so that’s not really saying a lot. I honestly hope that we find more promising long-term answer to our QB situation, but if not, I do still think there’s a chance he could step-up and produce consistently.
Nice article but TJack is still awful and that aint saying much for Sage either
He is a never was and never will be.
It is just a waste of our time and other player’s careers to let him run the ship.
The next time he leads the Vikings to a come behind victory in an important game will be the first time.
It is true that no other team would even give up a 3rd round pick to get this kid. Think about that for a minute.
Seattle would rather have Whitehurst who has not played in one game before they would go for TJack. What is that all about? They must be crazy.
I think TJack is a good kid and maybe he sticks around as a backup. But I do not foresee any dramatic improvement from him during crunch time. The only way we will find out is if we are sucking and they just put him in.
And he should have a good attitude as he is getting paid over a million dollars to play a game!
Uhh
you mean like that Denver game where we were down 16 points and he led us back to force OT, running in both 2 points conversions himself, with five minutes left…
And yes,
that game was important because it could have meant reaching the playoffs that season. Unfortunately for us, the Colts, as they do, played their reserves against the Redskins.
Notice I said "victory"
He did not lead us to victory. In fact he led us to being down by 16 points and then go t us to overtime like you said. but was Denver playing a softer defense perhaps?
I do not recall. If he had played the whole game like the last quarter then we wouldnot have needed to stage a “comeback”.
All I know is TJack is not very good. He is OK IMO.
He seems like a decent backup to come in and give you some snaps or a few games if needed but that is all I can ever envision.
Hey, look! It's Mr. Negative
Thinks he knows it all, and it’s all BAD…
Ok he's not calling you Mrs. Positive
I’m not sure why you felt the need to call him a name except that maybe you ran out of counter arguments. When you do that sometimes it means your wrong.
TJ may well save his career, and be a decent QB (I would rate his chance of being a great QB on the same level as the Sun blowing up tomorrow another one magically taking it’s place and Eath suddenly becoming overpopulated with chartruese unicorns) He may however turn out to be a decent Bulger type QB, however I personally doubt that too, although I would late better odds than the previous thought.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Thanks Grime but no need to defend me cause I aint worried about no cheerleaders.
TJack is not the answer. We have Favre and will get someone (hopefully) next year.
It is funny when you say you do not believe a guy will be a good NFL player and would like the team to get another guy that you feel would help the team (i.e. get better or stay very good for many years), that you are now a negative fan.
When it is the total opposite. You want the team to get better.
But some cats cannot handle any criticism of the team on any level. And we are talking about a backup QB right?
It has to be good all the time.
But maybe my posts are negative most of the time? Maybe that is how they come off.
I just think that Chilly is very lucky that Favre came to the Vikings. Or else he would have been on thin ice. TJack would have done the same thing he has always done (put up similar numbers) and fans would have been upset that we do not have a QB to go with the rest of the team.
I guess I have seen enough of him and do not see him taking the team all the way. but that is just my opinion.
But when the games get here I am rooting for him to succeed.
I guess I should be rooting right now too.
Nah man wasn't just defending you
Just noticing a trend on this site of people attacking people instead of sticking to the argument, and it sounds better if I call someone out on it when they do it to someone who’s not me! :D
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Well, if Chester Taylor hadn’t fumbled at the pylon, we would’ve won the game too. So… should we say Chester sucks because of that? I don’t even think we got the ball in OT that game, so he couldn’t lead us to victory, but you have to admit that to tie it up, down 16, in 5 minutes is pretty impressive shit.
to be fair
the reason favre has had so many comebacks in his career is because he (gasp) led them to being down in the 4th quarter. i’m not a TJ apologist, nor am i a favre detractor, i’m just saying, let’s give the man his chance after sittin behind the man for a couple years. if he still blows, cut him loose, but first, give the poor bastard a fair shake.
awful easy for us to sit here and say all this stuff, but try doing what he does.
I piss people off on a fairly regular basis. I cherish my right to speak my mind, whether I sound like an uneducated savage or not. I've never been accused of keeping what I think a secret, nor will I ever. Don't like it? I don't care.
by IABerserker1 on May 27, 2010 1:24 AM CDT up reply actions
... You completely skipped over the point.
Down 16. Tied it up. In FIVE minutes. Teams aren’t always going to play ahead, I’m sorry. To respond like that, however, is something special. You won’t see that too often I’m afraid.
lol chester taylor has many great plays behind him
If you have a proven winner let him go, sometimes he will reach and not make it. If that happens pat him on the back say nice try you’ll get it next time and keep letting him try what he does best. TJ doesn’t have enough cred to get away with bad decisions.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Be careful
There are guys in the NFL who get paid lots of money to know the talent in the NFL. This past year the Vikings didn’t think much of TJ and only gave him a third round tender. That’s not what a team puts on their future franchise QB.
Worse yet, no team took him. This is in the same offseason that Charlie Whitehurst was traded for about the same value and given a starter’s contract.
I’m not saying that TJ is a bad QB, I’m just saying that you should be careful of your assessment that he is the future of your franchise.
One last point about learning under Farve. I do believe that Rodgers did grow a lot by watching Farve. He got to see how to command a huddle and how to break down film, but don’t attribute all his growth to seeing the master work his craft. MM runs a program in the offseason exclusively for QB’s where they break down film, go over decision making skills, mechanics, the whole nine yards. It’s not something really talked about, but it’s a large reason why McCarthy has been able to grow and develop QB’s, and something that Rodgers has participated in every offseason that MM has been here.
Now I could be wrong, but I don’t think Childress does something similar with his QB’s, so TJ might not grow quite as much as Rodgers did while learning under Farve.
I could be wrong, but I don’t think Childress does something similar with his QB’s…
nope, chilly has an off-season quarterback coddling program where he gives the starting qb pedicures and sponge baths, but insists that he doesn’t need to know if said qb is interested in playing the next season!
do you think you could put in the word and get t-jack enrolled in mm’s qb program….neighbor?…;)
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
LOL. I’ll see what I can do, maybe at next week’s poker game.
by PackApologist on May 26, 2010 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Easy to root for...
Every time I’ve read a T-Jack interview, I’ve found him engaging and has almost always said the right thing. He is very much a post boat-party draft pick in terms of character. That said, his development hasn’t been what anyone would have liked it to be. If I recall, Culpepper was still the QB when he was drafted so the plan had been for Jackson to sit behind Culpepper and Brad Johnson for a few seasons learning some of the technical details. When Daunte clashed with Childress, it left Johnson as starter and no-one to sit on Jackson’s shoulder when he was holding teh clipboard to help his progress.
I remember a post from last year where it was claimed that we played badly in half of a match as Brett Favre took the plays as they were called and didn’t audible much, and then played much better in the second half when he took more control of the offence. If that assessment is true, should we not also consider Childress’s play-calling as a factor in T-Jack’s performances?
[As an aside, I think that Childress will make an excellent GM, but is not a good head coach/play-caller]
The question of the other teams interest is not that clear – how many of them were interested, but thought that it’d be worth seeing if the Vikings picked up a QB in the draft and cut him?
I have no idea if he’ll ever be an elite QB, but I’d be delighted if he gets the chance and takes it.
by ViolentSilence on May 26, 2010 12:24 PM CDT reply actions
I get what you are saying
There are a million reasons why T Jack wasn’t taken by the Seahawks but Whitehurst was. Maybe the Seahawks thought that Whitehurst had more skills or playing style to match their game than T Jack. Maybe they thought he would come cheaper. Maybe they just really wanted a QB that looked like Jesus. Who knows?
It could be also that teams didn’t want to give up a draft pick when they figured T Jack wouldn’t stay long term.
But…
If a team really thought he was a franchise QB why not part with the third round pick and then pay him. Even average QB’s get over paid when they hit the open market, why take that chance?
In my humble ultra biased opinion, it seems that most NFL teams look at T Jack as a solid QB but not one that’s going to be able to be the face of the franchise. It seems the Vikings would agree with this assessment since they actually tendered him at a lower value then what they drafted him for in the first place.
I don’t know, it all seems fishy to me. But then again Brady Quinn was traded for a fifth round pick and a sandwich. Maybe the Seahawks were just crazy when they made the deal for Whitehurst.
by PackApologist on May 26, 2010 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions
We most definitely should consider the playcalling.
Brett Favre could not win with the 5 plays Chili was calling and don’t tell me it’s because TJ couldn’t handle more.
I've said for a long while ......
Tavaris is an average starter and an excellant backup in more ways than one . He started more than a dozen games with a winning percentage . He has a good grasp of the Westcoast Offense with Brad . But the main factor is his affordability .
The girls talk with Grumps is that …..talk . Bulger wants starting money and a chance to compete . When Brees goes down week #1 Grumps won’t be saying ya I guess he’s OK . He’ll be begging and crying at the players they will have to lose to afford the guy . We have two accompliched backups where the Saints , Indy,Pack would all be in the same boat . Attempt to watch Pitt’s 1st 4 games . We lost McKinnie for 4 and lost all 4 . These gambling teams will pay a price this year . It will be similar to the big college QB’s that all were successfully targeted in 09’ .
2 games with 4 turnovers in 2007
The other one was vs. CHI (3 INT and 1 fumble), and in a season with only 12 games started due to injury. In 6 of those 12 games, he completed less than 60% of his passes, with or without Troy Williamson’s famous drop. Throw in the 2 starts at the end of ’06 and the 2 starts at the beginning of ’08 and you have 10 games with a completion% under 60% out of 16.
At the end of 2008, TJ was fortunate to match up vs. some of the worst secondaries in the league that year, especially DET and ARI.
And let’s not pile on the praise for accepting 2 demotions without demanding a trade away from the only NFL head coach that really believes in him to the zero teams that want him for any greater role than he’s had with the Vikings. He’s supposed to shut up and work harder and smarter in those situations. He’s being paid well for just hanging onto a backup QB role in the NFL. Have some real expectations of him if you really respect him.
There is no comparison to T.O. here because he was a proven top producer and other teams actually wanted him.
You at least have to take into account the fact that the learning curve was a bit steeper for Tjack than most 2nd round quarterbacks. Couple that with the lack of receiving talent, a mediocre offensive line and a coach running an offense that a 12-year-old can call; and the odds were stacked against him.
Not making excuses, or babying him, only pointing out the disadvantages he had.
Give him this team after Favre has helped develop our recievers, and I expect him to put up decent numbers. ~250 yards passing, 2 Td’s and 40 yards rushing and hopefully an average above 60%.
That is not a “He will put up decent numbers” it is an “I expect him to put up decent numbers or be relegated to journeyman backup”.
He's done great in garbage-time...
Can’t see why he can’t do great under pressure… Especially since he has had time to learn from Favre and learn the playbook better.. Oh and more practice w/ our receivers and experience as a Viking..
Can’t see why he can’t do great under pressure… Especially since he has had time to learn from Favre and learn the playbook better..
He has never had a single chance to perform under pressure since Favre joined the team.
The only time he has done it under pressure was before the Silver Fox showed up, and he had to do it without Harvin and with a gimpy Rice.
And a Shiancoe
who couldn’t catch….had to throw that in there.
I know..
That was my point… We will never know until we try…
I think we should start putting him in sooner rather than later in the garbage time.
Get him in there when the pressure is slightly higher than what he is used to.
Than keep trying to put him in there sooner & sooner.
This will also rest Favre more for the later part of the season.
Your basic win/win scenario. (Unless T_Jax fudges up).
TJ the O's add up to silence
O = number of teams interested in him as a QB during the FA
O = number of extra sessions he seems to have gone with BF to the filmroom
O = amount of “advice” he seem to have given BF (as opposed to SAGE)
He is happy to be in the NFL with the VIKES because he knows (and so does his manager) that no other NFL would consider him at this point for anything other than a 2nd or 3rd QB - Now if at some point he comes out at plays at a high level for a year then everything changes - He knows that being a hot-head gets him unemployed. I give him credit for recognizing that. Now if he were to shadow BF in every extra film study he does, then I’d be more hopeful. He has got the arm it is the head and maybe the desire that is lacking..
Favre and TJ actually get along quite well.
Early on in the process Favre stated that TJ helped him get to know our receiver’s tendencies. Jackson has also talked about many things he’s learned from Favre in practice, through watching him in games, and from the way he breaks down film. TJ is also noted as one of the hardest working Vikings in camp and OTA’s and is noted for doing extra work with receivers after practice. Favre has spoken highly of TJ in many interviews and has rarely mentioned Sage. I don’t know where the perception has come from that TJ is a poor worker or that he doesn’t take the opportunity to learn from Favre because this is not the truth.
by CanadianViking on May 27, 2010 12:26 AM CDT up reply actions
0 = number of teams interested in him as a QB during the FA.
False.
There were several teams interested, but like a normal offseason teams are more likely to wait until after the draft to see if the price drops, like with Jason Campbell who was tendered at a 1st round level yet was traded for a 4th round pick.
Tjack then signed his tender and we kept him because he is a valuable backup.
0 = of extra sessions he seems to have gone with BF to the filmroom.
Sources?
Besides, who here ACTUALLY believes that Favre would EVER do an EXTRA session of film study? Tjack has a rep as a hard worker, just because he can’t convince “Me-Me-Me” Favre to put extra work in doesn’t mean a damn thing.
O = amount of "advice" he seem to have given BF (as opposed to SAGE)
Sage is the 3rd QB, his job is to bring Favre the Polaroids of the game and to go over them with the old man. It is Tjack’s job as the 2nd string QB to wear the headset and keep his mind on the gameplan. All you see is Favre talking to Sage and you assume he is giving pointers, in reality Sage was relegated to nothing more than package boy because he couldn’t beat Tjack in the OTAs and practices.
Well said
If anything, this site should be full of Sage haters due to the fact of his salary and how much game-time he has seen.
If Webb were to take the potential 3rd string position but be played as a WR, that may deflect the help on the sidelines Favre receives since we could be putting to much on Webb shoulders… Unless the Polaroid gig is pretty easy..
Heh.
I am really optimistic at the possibilities of Webb. Not so much as a starting QB, but as a backup QB that can play WR. It would allow us to keep 3 QB’s other than Favre without wasting roster space.
That's the way I was hoping to see it.
Chilly loves hy-brid players..
Having Webb as a receiver and a back-up QB… Well a QB needs to know routes, and as a receiver you would need to know your own routes.. I am not saying each position sort of goes hand-in-hand, but they must be similar enough for Webb to learn his responsibilities as a WR and have a general idea where to start as a QB.
Maybe we’ll get to see some passes pre-season from good old Webb..
4 QB's on the roster?
That’s just stupid. Hell, that’s as dumb as keeping 3 FB’s.
by PackApologist on May 28, 2010 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
I would assume
They would drop Sage and release him.
Leaving Webb as a 3rd-string back-up but playing as a WR.
This frees up roster space. (Considering that Sage never played last year in a game).
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