Toby Gerhart Is White, and That's Alright
by Christopher Gates on May 27, 2010 6:23 PM CDT
in Minnesota Vikings
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PrintA rather large furor was caused after the revelation that, leading up to the NFL Draft, Miami Dolphins GM Jeff Ireland had asked WR Dez Bryant if his mother had worked as a prostitute during his youth. Bryant was put off by the question, and quite understandably so. . .after all, had anybody asked you if your mother spent your youth turning tricks, you'd probably be a but perturbed by the whole thing, too.
But a recent article from the St. Paul Pioneer Press brings up another case of a guy getting grilled over something silly in the days leading up to the draft, that person being Toby Gerhart, one of the Vikings' two second-round selections in this year's annual selection meeting. Gerhart was asked numerous times by teams if he was going to be playing tailback in the NFL. . .after all, there aren't currently any white starting tailbacks in the National Football League, and the Vikings already have the best back in the game in Adrian Peterson, so they obviously drafted Gerhart to block, right? Isn't that what white running backs in the NFL do?
Honestly, I can't roll my eyes back in my head any farther without having a blood vessel explode.
Why on earth would the Minnesota Vikings. . .or anybody else. . .draft somebody with Toby Gerhart's obvious physical talent to play fullback? The man runs the 40-yard dash in 4.53 seconds, he has a 38-inch vertical leap, and he should have won the Heisman Trophy last season after putting up over 1,800 rushing yards and 25 touchdowns. Does that sound like an NFL blocking back to you?
Really, at this point in time, shouldn't we be past junk like this? Yes, there aren't a whole lot of white running backs in the National Football League. The black quarterback used to be stigmatized for a long time, too. . .if you don't believe me, you can just ask Warren Moon. But why on earth, in this day and age of America having elected a black President, of the Supreme Court being comprised of whites, blacks, and now its first ever Latina, do people feel the need to attempt to pigeonhole Toby Gerhart as a "white running back?" He might be a bit of an anomaly, sure, but the guy has physical skills that rival many running backs in today's NFL, regardless of their skin color.
Unfortunately, players like Gerhart are not going to be compared to their peers at the position, simply on the basis of skin color. Another player got some similar treatment in the weeks leading up to the draft, that being Texas wide receiver Jordan Shipley, eventually drafted by the Cincinnati Bengals. On every draft preview show and in every draft magazine, do you know who Shipley. . .who put up amazing numbers at Texas, was compared to? Go on. . .take a guess.
If you said "Wes Welker," you're correct. Why? Well, it's not because their games are similar, because they're nowhere close to the same type of receiver. Welker is an amazing slot receiver, making quick cuts and amassing a ton of yards after the catch. Shipley, on the other hand, is a bit more of a possession guy, not nearly as fast or as quick as Welker.
No, the Shipley/Welker comparisons were inevitable because both players have, as it were, the "white" stuff. Just like there aren't a lot of white running back in the NFL, and hence people are hesitant to compare Gerhart to other players at the position, there aren't terribly many wide receivers at this level, either. Hence, people have the tendency to simply compare guys like Gerhart and Shipley to the first white guys that cross their minds, no matter how inaccurate those comparisons may be.
Toby Gerhart's lack of pigmentation does not automatically mean that he's a fullback. He's a 253-pound bowling ball covered with knives that has shown a powerful running style, enough moves to make people miss, and amazing productivity as a college running back. And hopefully he'll be able to get past the stereotype of the "white running back" to have a good enough career that, in the future, people will be able to compare numerous different running backs to him. . .regardless of their skin color.
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Or Brandon Stokley or something, yes (-:
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on May 27, 2010 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Can't wait to see him in purple!!
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on May 27, 2010 6:44 PM CDT reply actions
Like this?
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on May 27, 2010 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions
chris walsh
I always liked him. But there are a ton of players I liked and many of many races, Faud R. was assume as well as Cris Carter so on
it is better to be thought of as dumb then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
Ben Franklin
by montana vikes fan on May 27, 2010 6:47 PM CDT reply actions
Fuad was such a bad ass
To this day, he’s still the only kicker I’ve ever seen get flagged for a late hit.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on May 28, 2010 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Hell yeah!
I loved that! My best friend and I were watching that game together via the phone, and still talk about that hit!
One of my favorite Viking moments.
The Minnesota Vikings - Undefeated in the Playoffs at Lambeau Field!
my dads buddy
was kis college roommate for a time at tennessee. he’s a pretty funny guy, and has all sorts of stories.
I piss people off on a fairly regular basis. I cherish my right to speak my mind, whether I sound like an uneducated savage or not. I've never been accused of keeping what I think a secret, nor will I ever. Don't like it? I don't care.
by IABerserker1 on May 28, 2010 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions
All I can say is the OLD Tecmo bowl
He was like a 99 rating on just about everything, it was rediculous.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Toby will be alright
Although I worry about his downhill running style, I mean Brian Urlacher or AJ Hawk is a bit stronger than your average Pac 10 linebacker.
Average meaning?
Ray Malaluga, Brian Cushing and Clay Matthews? He beat those guys up pretty good. I’m not worried.
he's not really white....he's kinda pink....especially if you leave him out in the sun too long.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Peterson and Gerhart
One was black, the other was white. All that matters now is that they’re both PURPLE!
I like a guy willing to disect near a nerve as you all know yet .............
When the above WR was asked in the interview to establish a multi-million dollar career about the occupation of his father the boy not yet a man replied, "He’s a pimp !’ Then wnen asked what his mother’s occupation was the youngun’ replied , “She works for my dad” !!!! IMO He deserved the early media lesson . Thought I’d clear that up for us all ….
The name Toby as referenced in a classic film saga of our past adds to this dilema . Not being forced to start will ease the situation along with the Brad method of 5 plays /game philosophy . He will get his comparisons and his Salt-N-Pepper jokes . It’s OK because he will be a serious weapon on this Purple Machine !!! He will attack on grass and being in the shadows won’t last long . Stanford has a long time reputation for passing . If he developes soft hands he will give the NFL one of the 1st. double RB probowlers from the same team . Triple if you see Harvin as a RB ????
Shipley is more like Collinsworth . LOL….Goth Out !!!
“He’s a pimp !’ Then wnen asked what his mother’s occupation was the youngun’ replied , "She works for my dad"
Did he really say that???
If so, how the heck does he have the right to complain when the reporter basically just reiterated it back to him?
Your right Jarome.
If your dad was a pimp & your mom worked for him doesn’t it seem like your mom might have been a prostitute? Why do people get all bent out of shape at a perfectly legit question.
I think a better quesiton to ask would be:
Was he being serious when asked of his Dad’s occupation? For example, was he really a pimp or was the guy being a smart-ass??
From what I saw of his combine pass drills he looks to already have soft hands.
He also has good blocking intuitions so should be solid at picking up blitzes as well as dropping into hot outlet routes. Oh yeah, I hear he runs pretty well too. Who even cares what color he is?!
I think his size...
and running style played into it some too but yeah its pretty stupid that he’s having a glass ceiling put on him because of his color…its like reverse racism! haha
I do notice that most white WRs do get compared to other white WRs which is really odd.
I like Gerhart…I’ll be watching him closely this year as I was hoping he’d fall to my team. I hope he doesn’t live up to the hype now though! haha
That's what it is.
I’ve heard of a couple people that are friends of friends that don’t like dating people of the same background as them. Weird stuff huh?
by CanadianViking on May 28, 2010 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Ha-Ha
But when it comes to the dating world, it’s personal preference.
Can we really criticize someone because they like blonds over brunettes?
Can we really criticize someone because they like tall over short?
Maybe fat over skinny..
When it comes to dating, it’s personal preference and every human being has that right to what they choose.
But in a business world of any sort, the situation would have to play out differently. I would think racism, or even so-called “reverse racism” would be a big issue.. (i.e., How Frazier had to be interviewed to fill a rule by the NFL).
The people I was talking
about were less about looks and more about generalized character traits so they were in that muddy area of things. Myself, I take the Captain Kirk approach where as long as the girl is pretty and half-intelligent she can be neon-green for all I care : )
by CanadianViking on May 29, 2010 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Excellent!
Now tell us to get out of your yard!
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on May 27, 2010 8:46 PM CDT reply actions
Spot on
I just wrote about the same thing yesterday. All that matters is if the kid can play ball. Who cares about anything else?
I'm not sure anyone does.
This year isn’t the first time draftees have been asked deliberately offensive or demeaning questions to see how they react. I’d get kind of hacked off if someone suggested my mom was a prostitute too, but I don’t see how asking a kid what he thinks about the fact that people assume he’s a fullback because he’s white is something to get all that worked up about.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on May 28, 2010 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn't notice that anyone was...
getting worked up about it. It was juat a story about one of our second round draft picks. Just a story to initiate a discussion about our newest running back.
He was referring to the NFL teams asking prospects questions in a deliberate attempt to either upset them or to see how they react.
by packallday555 on May 29, 2010 1:19 AM CDT up reply actions
About half of the article was about Gerhart's abilities.
The other half was about racial stereotypes by position in the NFL. I’m not saying they don’t exist. I’m just saying that pointing to a deliberately inflammatory question he was asked during the pre-draft interviews and suggesting its evidence that people are still hung up on race is kind of silly. The conclusion might be right, but the question isn’t evidence of that fact, or at least, it’s pretty weak evidence since it was designed to inflame more than it was an actual reflection of what the questioner believes.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on May 29, 2010 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Well...actually
I personally haven’t seen one instance of anyone getting inflamed over anything.
It just seems to me that maybe you’re just trying to get a reaction. Given these two related posts, and the one you posted earlier.
This doesn’t necessarily make sense considering that you are generally one of the more civil Packer fans (along with packallday555) that visits us over here at DN.
I guess I thought Chris was pretty worked up based on the tone of the article.
But maybe I’m wrong.
I’m not just trying to get a reaction. I just don’t get why the question he was asked in pre-draft interviews matters at all.
BTW, I come here because this is a better site than the Packers SBN site, and because I like the conversations that generally follow my comments. I get flamed sometimes, but that’s ok. I’m sort of asking for it by turning up and I know that. Over time, however, even some of the guys I initially argued with quite a bit (like puddnhead) are people I’ve ended up liking to talk to.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on May 29, 2010 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe he was, and maybe he wasn't...
and maybe you’re right. Does it really matter at all? It is just an article after all.
And btw, thanks for the explanation…it is appreciated.
Just an article and just a question...
… that’s all.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on May 29, 2010 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Well
I think we all open you with welcome arms since your a considerate person.
Speaking of coming on over, I had recently signed up on the Packer site, so I could maybe post comments.. Here’s to hoping I am welcomed over there as well.
Cool
Always nice to hear (or read) another perspective.
by packallday555 on May 31, 2010 12:12 AM CDT up reply actions
BTW, I come here because this is a better site than the Packers SBN site, and because I like the conversations that generally follow my comments. I get flamed sometimes, but that’s ok. I’m sort of asking for it by turning up and I know that. Over time, however, even some of the guys I initially argued with quite a bit (like puddnhead) are people I’ve ended up liking to talk to.
Thanks, that was very nice of you to say.
I need to take your example, not stoop for the bait, and just try to blow off the gross misrepresentations when “visiting.” Alas, I’m not sure I’m as disciplined as you, so I am probably better off trying to stick to DN ;)
p.s.
I should have also said, though I do not always agree with you TSSC, I respect your knowledge and insight greatly. And actually I do not disagree with you on that much, knowledge-wise. I think we probably both agree (?) that both Vikings and Packers are very good football teams, with talented and likable players across the board … well, maybe you disagree with the “likable” part for one Viking skill position ;)
The rivalry between the teams is great; I would have to see the Central be like one of the West or South divisions, where one team usually dominates, creating an anticlimactic divisional race. Instead, I’d rather see big games like the Nov 1 one last year. Man I was anxious leading up to it, but once it started it was exhilarating, it was one of the most exciting non-playoff games I’ve ever seen.
Here, here!
TSSC is one of the classiest and most well-spoken Packer fans I know. Just wish there were more where that came from.
I guess you could ask a QB if he thought he'd succeed since he was black
I mean it’s as legit as asking a running back if he can succeed because he’s white isn’t it? But I think people would be WAY more interested in this article if it was a black QB. Heck we had a guy on here a couple of weeks ago praying we didn’t get another black QB and he got a rash of crap for it.
Just saying it’s interesting watching people react to things.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
"TOBY-TIME" is comin' to the NFL
i can not wait for the highlight reel of adrian and toby run over defenders … i am literally sittin here laughin just thinkin about it … just a strong suggestion for those teams with the purple on their schedule in ’10 … tacklin practice lots and lots of tacklin practice … i cant wait for september to get here
MGR4FUN
Don’t need to tackle when you can just ask the ball to pop out and it will.
Adrian carrying the football is like Frodo sportin’ the One Ring. Though he genuinely wants to deliver it to his goal, he ultimately has absolutely no control over what it wants to do.
ahhh
Well if AP hasn’t fixed his issues
You may see more Toby-Time and you’ll have to worry with that instead
That could be why they drafted a RB in the second round over other more pressing needs. I’m wondering if AD’s reputation has started taking a hit among the coaches.
I've heard that
Toby’s ball security isn’t anything to write home about either… So… We could have two backs with Fumblitis this year. Here’s hoping we get the horrible fumble-game out of the way in the REGULAR season instead of saving it for the 2nd biggest post-season game.
Naw.
How bout the preseason? That’s what it’s for….to get all that out of their systems hopefully.
was quality competition a question
Toby rushed for 877 yards and 15 touchdowns and averaged 5.9 yards per carry against Oregon, USC (He scorched Southern California with 178 yards rushing and three touchdowns), California, Notre Dame and Oklahoma. I think the young man can play against quality competition
MGR4FUN
If it matters...
When asked to compare his running style to another player, Toby said he sees himself as a Corey Dillon-Larry Johnson type runner. Funny, he didn’t mention Mike Alstott or John Riggins. My eyes are rolled so far back I can see my own ass right now.
Mike Silver had a good column about Toby and his interview questions leading up to the draft. Just in case you missed it:
“Race Factors into Evaluation of Gerhart” by Micheal Silver
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-gerhartstereotype042010
He's the next Steven Jackson
Best comparison I’ve found is with Steven Jackson. They had nearly identical combine numbers, have similar one cut running styles and are similarly aggressive in going after tacklers. They even played in the same conference. Just check out these videos, anyone can see the similarities:
Toby
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjLh_yO41jw
Steven
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ2cJN0fuqo
The biggest differences between the two are that Jackson was used more as a receiver out of the backfield in college than Toby was (though early indications are that Toby is a strong receiver), and Jackson uses a stiff arm more often than Toby. Also, Toby is said to be a more polished blocker than Jackson was.
tony needs dread locks, then it's a non-issue.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Childress....Dumb?
Another bonehead move by Childress drafting a white running back.
where is waldo
waldo is the gonna be eatin crow … toby gerhardt is the real deal man … i really never believed the vikes would hav a chance to draft this young man … toby was the best runnin back in all of college football in ’09 … this is an athlete that knows how to find the end zone and is willing to punish defenders to get there … another thing i really like about this runnin back is when he gets in the end zone he acts like he has been there before i admire and respect that … “TOBY-TIME” in the metrodome will be awesome … he will be loved from day one by the purple hoard … can you imagine bein a d-coordinator for the lions / bears / cheeseheads and all the others on the purple schedule was enough just havin to plan for #28 & #4 now they gotta figure on “TOBY-TIME” also … so waldo i am thinkin you just might be the bonehead here … just sayin
MGR4FUN
Whats the big deal
can you imagine bein a d-coordinator for the lions / bears / cheeseheads and all the others on the purple schedule was enough just havin to plan for #28 & #4 now they gotta figure on "TOBY-TIME" also
With Toby having a similar running style to Peterson (only less explosive), O coordinators aren’t going to being pulling their hair out trying to gameplan for him.
“That one white guy’s comin in now. How we gonna stop him?”
“Easy. Same way we stopped Peterson. Stack the box and strip the rocks.”
Problem with that is...
Gerhart rarely fumbles. Go ahead and try to strip the rock from him. He’ll just pound you for a few more yards or break a long run while the idiots are trying in vain to take the ball from him.
Checkmate.
The Minnesota Vikings - Undefeated in the Playoffs at Lambeau Field!
Don't read too much into what happened in college
I think the NFL is a lot more ball-stripping focused than college ball.
The more obvious question here is....
Why would O coordinators have to put together a game plan for our running backs, shouldn’t that be the job of the D coordinators? We’ll help you with the tough ones, Jayrome. lol
Everything else aside
I just see Toby’s whiteness as the perfect opportunity for a back-field nickname?
Thunder and LIghtning (dead and gone)
Smash and Dash (split up in 2010)
Ebony-and-Ivory
Live together in perfect harmony!
I like this one
Chocolate Vanilla Twist
Could even be the name of a play….
Having AD & TG in the backfield…
Favre drops back to hand-off.. Twists which way will he twist.. Towards vanilla, or chocolate..
What flavor does the defense not crave….
how about all day & all night.
All day is black & all night is white. How Ironic is that.
Definitely a twist
Like the Chocolate Vanilla twist hahaha
I like all Day and All Night
Clever twist on the words.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Oh my fucking gosh
that is perfect. AD and the white night
What About Ummmm
All Day (Peterson) All Night (Gerhart)
by VikinginCalifornia on Jun 1, 2010 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions
LMAO @ Jayrome007 ... "Easy. Same way we stopped Peterson. Stack the box and strip the rocks."
1383 yards (third straight season of 1300+ yds) and 18 rushing touchdowns (led the entire NFL) … plus … 43 receptions for 463 yards (for the numerically challenged that is a 1st down every time he catches a pass) … for the record there are only two other backs in NFL history hav 1300+ yds and 10 rushin td’s in their first three seasons in the NFL … earl and barry and adrian … lemme say that again earl and barry and adrian … if that is what was referred to as stoppin #28 well then keep on keepin on … now lets talk “TOBY-TIME” career stats 671 attempts for 3522 yds and 43 touchdowns (count em 43 td’s) and in his ‘09 season 343 carries for 1871 yds and 27 touchdowns (count em 21 td’s) stanford’s loss is the vikings gain bigtime … and if ya all do not think that d-coordinators are not thinkin about “ALL DAY” & “TOBY-TIME” well maybe ya should set down the crack pipe and giv it a rest …
MGR4FUN
Counter point
I should first point out that I do really like AD. No qualms with him as my starting RB at all. But he’s no longer elite as he once was (if you have the answer why, I’d love to know cause it bugs me too). He used to be a nightmare to stop, almost impossible. Now he’s just your slightly better than average RB. Don’t believe me? Look at the stats. And keep in mind, he achieved these numbers with arguably the best passing game in the league to take pressure off him.
Total Yards: 5th (6th in yrds/gm)
- not bad at all, but also not great. And he was beat out by a team that almost never had a lead (Rams) and a 32 year old RB (Thomas Jones). Only a couple yards in his rear view mirror were a RB about half the size of him (Rice) and that bum Packer (Grant).
Average yards per rush: 25th!
- ok, lets be fair here and only count those who had 1000 yards. But that still puts him at 13th in this category. If I’m D coordinator, I’m not fearing anybody ranked 13th in anything. This is the category where that great passing game should make him look good. It didn’t.
TDs: 1st
- give credit where credit is due. He has a nose for the endzone, for sure. But you have to admit, most of those TDs came within 5 yards of the goalline. He didn’t exactly break a bunch of long runs to get them. Which brings me to the next category…
40+ runs: 5-way tie for 5th (in other words, between 5th-10th)
- granted the leader only had 4 more than him. But this still just further reiterates my point. He doesn’t suck. Far, far from it. But I’m not so sure he deserves to be mentioned as the best RB in the NFL anymore. That is far and away Chris Johnson. He’s just another Ray Rice, Maurice Jones-Drew, Jonathan Stewart, or Ryan Grant, all backs with comparable stats.
Can we argue this with.....
The idea that we had rookies on the o-line and we lost Birk?
I think our line became more focused on protecting Favre with the passing game over using AP to get yards… Plus T-Jax was a more mobile QB..
I believe our pass-rush & rush-blocking should improve a little with the experience of the rookies, the whole off-season to heal (Since I believe McKinnie had off-season surgery), and depth to keep the players motivated??
I think the O-line should basically be improved. Not by a significant margin, but hopefully enough to keep Brett up-right more often than not and take on a slightly harder schedule this year.
lol @ Ryan GRant being comparable
No, you talk the best RB in the NFL, and I will agree with you that its Johnson. Last season was just ridiculous, and the man needs to be paid. But in terms of who’s next in line, there’s really no doubt that it’s Peterson. Yeah, his YPC wasn’t as good as it was his rookie season. Our O-Line got worse in the run-block as the season wore on, partially due to injuries, partially due to inexperience. I mean, we had 2 new staters on the line.
And you can say that the best passing game should’ve taken the pressure off him, but I think it’s just the opposite. Similar to how teams were stacking the box against Peterson in year’s past, the running game actually opened up the PASSING game. If you’re a D-Coordinator, who are you going to try and stop more; Peterson, or the passing-game? Now Favre is good, but I think most DCs were content with letting him fling it around in order to stop Peterson from wearing down their defenses. Because, let’s face it, aside from Harvin and Berrian (who seems to get hurt alot), our recievers are pretty slow and don’t get much YAC.
lol @ Ryan GRant being comparable
Haha I literally did start laughing out loud!
by packallday555 on May 31, 2010 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions
SEriously…
Heck…I’ll give you Grant and a 4th rounder right now for AP…Since they are comparable, that should be a fair deal!
lol wow I'll take rodgers and give you TJ and a third rounder
While we’re making rediculous trades :D
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Um seriously your going to say that Rice doesn't get YAC?
I"m not sure I’m going to buy that.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
If he's covered, no, he doesn't.
You look at the games he had huge yardage, he isn’t a slippery guy, he doesn’t run past people, and he almost always gets run down from behind. He’s not a YAC guy, he’s more of a possession reciever. He got big chunks of yardage after the catch last year because teams left him wide open in the middle of the field. He’s just not fast enough to create that space himself.
Good points actually. I still remember him being chased down a couple times in your game against the Steelers this past season.
by packallday555 on Jun 6, 2010 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions
That is far and away Chris Johnson. He’s just another Ray Rice, Maurice Jones-Drew, Jonathan Stewart, or Ryan Grant, all backs with comparable stats
Haha oh gosh. Don’t even mention Grant with some of those guys!
You make a good argument but AP is elite. He was top 5 in the 3 of the 4 categories you presented, including being first in TD’s. There isn’t another Rb in the league who has the same abilities he does. He has great breakaway speed and great agility but at the same time is so powerful.
I think the reason he had a bit of a down year was because of your OL and Favre. I mean, initially after Favre signed on with you guys people thought that you would remain a running team while Favre would more so just be there too manage games or exploit teams when they loaded the box. Your offense started off this way but it became pretty clear that by the end of the season, you guys were a pass first team.
The OL killed AP too. The group had a down year, and even a guy of AP’s skill can’t make 2-3 guys miss in the backfield every time. I think this is a large part of why his YPC number was underwhelming. Although some of it falls on AP as well. It has always seemed to me that he is looking for the big run too much. Seems like he’d rather try and go through/around 2-3 guys, instead of just taking what the defense gives him.
by packallday555 on May 31, 2010 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions
wow...
Can’t believe people are turning on AP already…and not just for the fumbling but saying its due to his stats. Yikes. People the guy is still elite. 29 of 32 would trade whomever they have for him right now without a question asked…maybe more I just gave a cushion.
That said, he MUST fix that fumbling issue…i hope he doesn’t but he must.
I'm hoping it's just one delusional fan
Oh yeah i said delusional!
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Haha it almost makes me mad. If they really think watching AP is painful, they should try watching Grant from week to week.
by packallday555 on Jun 5, 2010 12:49 AM CDT up reply actions
It's just one of those things
It wouldn’t be so bad, but he has horrible fumbling games that stick in your mind. Like if he fumbled once every 3 games or so, it’d suck, but I think people could deal with it. But when he has games where he fumbles 3 or more times, its just ridiculously frustrating. Especially when it’s a very close game, and those 3 missed drives end up costing us dearly; See the Bears OT-game, the Atlanta game from the previous year, and last year’s NFC CG for evidence.
Yeah, I suppose your right. Actually kind of reminds me of Favre for a while back when he played for us.
PS- I still remember that Atlanta game. That was pretty unreal. Jackson contributed a fumble or two as well didn’t he?
by packallday555 on Jun 6, 2010 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions
He had 87 stops at teh line
That is not a RB’s issue. But every time it happens he gets nailed for zero yards on the carry and sometimes negative. Honestly though do you blame the RB or the line for that problem? Me I’m laying that pipe across the linemens heads.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Wow, 87 is a lot but it doesn’t really surprise me. AP was really boom or bust this year for you guys. We should take into consideration the other teams defense though as well. People play the run pretty loyally against you guys, and usually stack 8 in the box. Even the OL can’t do a whole lot when teams run blitz.
by packallday555 on Jun 6, 2010 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Two new starters on the OL and
the emphasis on protecting a soon to be 40 year old Q could have something to do with it?
I do not in any way subscribe to this theory. It is nothing but an excuse to coddle and hold onto that “Best RB in the NFL” title.
I’m not sure how I’d actually research it, but something tells me we weren’t the only team with 2 new starters on the oline.
There were two others: The Bills (Eric Wood/Andy Levtire) and Jacksonville (Eugene Monroe/Ebon Britton). These 3 teams finished 5th (Vikings), 18th (Jaguars), and 30th (Bills) in total offense. The Vikings Oline definitely had a down year compared to previous years when they had a older line that had played together for a few years, but considering where the offense finished overall and that there is reason to expect improvement (considering the newer additions and having the entire unit intact for another year experience) there is no reason to think that the O-line, and by extension AP, won’t be better next year.
Also, you’re only using one year as an example. How many times have there been RB’s that have a great year and never reach that plateau again for whatever the reason? AP has been a consistently great RB that even though teams knew he was the focal point of the offense, they couldn’t keep him down. He may not have been the best RB last year, but he is one the best in the NFL and he is a Viking, so try to forgive those fans who would use even the slightest hyperbole to elevate a member of their favorite team.
The line also allowed 9 fewer sacks and moved up to 5th on the ability to protect the pass
So yeah things did change last year we moved from running with wide splits to passing with narrow splits. There are a lot of factors that come into how well each player plays and oddly enough just about every person on the field effects everyone elses stats.
Oh and Childress is a weanie.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
by Grime on Jun 4, 2010 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Improvement?
there is reason to expect improvement (considering the newer additions and having the entire unit intact for another year experience)
First, what additions are you speaking of?
Minus Artis Hicks, plus Chris “Who the Hell” DeGeare???
Man, if you’re relying on him to boost the Oline, I pity your bloated expectations.
Second, why is it that everyone assumes adding “another year of experience” automatically upgrades the unit’s ability and potential? You guys all play way too much Madden, looking for little “+” signs next to each player’s ability stats in the offseason (as long as they are under 30 years old).
The line should be better.
It remains to be seen if they will improve but their are some legitimate reasons to expect improvement. Two first year starters will have more experience which should improve their ability to follow assignments better and be better at line calls and shifting protection schemes. Also four out of our five starters were injured at times last year with Hererra and Hutchinson having shoulder/back issues for the entire year. A return to health will definitely help things.
The other factor is continuity between the line members and the quarterback. Favre requires a different type of blocking than Jackson and another year of familiarity with him and his tendencies will be good to have. Also having all five lineman staying together for another year is a time-proven recipe for improving a unit. The perfect example of this is the Jet’s line that had started every game together for about two years running. Their line has a lot of talent but they improved the longer the unit as a whole played together.
None of these factors guarantee improvement but generally O-lines get better the longer they stay together, are healthy, and as younger members gain more experience.
by CanadianViking on Jun 6, 2010 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions
MDG
I read somewhere that his nickname was MDG Mom, Dad, God because you can’t coach or teach the things he does.
D-fens
How about
Odin and Thor
Oil and Water
Or you can refer to them both as Deep Purple as in " A heavy dose of DEEP PURPLE" That way they are not different but one and the same for the team. Kind of like the Three Deep thing.
I’m sure the media will come up with something.
I like that one.
especially because it reverses their color scheme which is just clever.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
I like that too
How about
All- Day
and
Good Knight ( going off of the how media portrays him and his sparkling reputation)
LOL noooo Horned!!
This reminds me of that Tom Hanks flick where the guy spells The “Wonders” as “Oneders” and everyone calls them the O’needers.
Day n Night
Get Kid Cudi to ditch the pot references and they have a theme song.
by CanadianViking on May 28, 2010 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions
"Chocolate and Bubble-Gum"....(i.e. brown and pink....i'm just throwin' it out there)
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
OROY
What is everyones guess of the Offensive Rookie of the Year. I would love it to be Gerhart or Webb. To have three OFROY in four years would be just too much.
Extremely too much
Considering if we don’t make it to the NFC-CG again, or, a Superbowl for that matter.
I’d take a championship over rookie of the years, pro-bowlers, and several records being broken.
But, with that said, wouldn’t it be that way for everyone? Unless your a hard-core Fantasy football player
Not gonna happen
Gerhart’s probably not going to play enough of a role. I mean, he’s gonna be second string automatically. No, my bet is that ROY is going to Dez Bryant.
Best might pick it up as well.
He’s a pretty good running back and I think Detroit will use him a lot.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Salt and Pepper
I’m a Viking fan but I still remember a pair of running backs that were quite good by the name of Gale and Brian
Am I the only one who looks at Gerhart
and sees a white Jamal Lewis?
I'd be happy with Jamal Lewis...
maybe Gerhart could have a great single-game like Lewis did. Wouldn’t complain about him breaking AD’s single-game rushing record.
Do you think
he is going to compare to Robert Smith?
Smith was part mutant
and his Line was the best in the NFL many of those years.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Well... I wouldn't say that
Pretty sure he can break tackles. All these up-and-coming young LBs? Toby played against them, and, yes, he broke their tackles. People like Matthews and Cushing, who won RDPOY last year. Twice.
But you’re right about him not making people miss, but that’s just not his game. And no, he doesn’t accelerate well. But I wouldn’t throw the label that he’s not good on him right away. The guy hasn’t even played yet, geeze.
Who Cares What Color He Is
All I care is that dude run the ball, catch the ball ,score, block , and dont fumble .. Besides the only color on the Vikings team is PURPLE …
by VikinginCalifornia on Jun 1, 2010 3:18 PM CDT reply actions
I think he may not be White
I was trying to stay out of this but all signs point to him being a brother.
I looked at the meaning of his surname too in wikipedia …
Gerhard is a male forename of Germanic origin, variations of which exist in many Germanic and Romance languages. Like many other early Germanic names, it is dithematic, consisting of two meaningful constituents put together. In this case, those constituents are ‘ger’ (meaning ‘spear’) and ‘hard’ (meaning ‘hard/strong/brave’). The meaning of the name is thus ‘strong/brave with the spear’.
I don’t know about you but that says African to me. He definitely has some brother in him. No doubt. Well we all do if you believe that human originated in Africa (the Motherland).
Just kiddin with y’all. All I know for sure is he is good as I witnessed him steam rolling my Trojans last year. I don’t care if his in green. He is good!
Was thinking spear chucker..
But then I thought it would suck to get banned.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Gerhart sucks
Yea, I’m going to be that guy. I am not impressed what so ever with the tape I’ve seen on Gerhart. This was a bad pick. To be a successfull runner in the NFL you need to be able to make people miss and Gerhart cant. He doesnt even break tackles. He can carry college defenders for 4 yards, but that will be 2 yards in the NFL. He has absolutly no acceleration, either straight ahead or in and out of cuts. Make no mistake, acceleration is much more important than speed at this level. He holds the ball away from his body and will fumble. He is good football player that played with a great offensive line, terrible value pick.
Whats more is that he is not a good complement to Peterson. I want a scat back. Somone who specializes in the screen/draw game. A guy who can catch the ball in the flat and make someone miss and someone that defenses need to pay attention to. I hope at the very least Toby can block someone on third down.
I think the Vikes got burned. They wanted Jahvid Best and Detroit pulled a fast one on em.
Two Words
Christian Okoye
Ok two more
Jerome Bettis.
I think I’ve said enough. Not saying he’ll be as good as they were but people can make a name for themselves by pounding other people until they cry.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
3 more words
10 years ago.
As in, the last time those players were successful and meaningful. Try to name a RB in today’s NFL that plays that type of game successfully anymore.
Stephen Jackson, Shonn Greene, Thomas Jones, Jamal Lewis(up until the last couple years), Mcgahee(last couple years since he got slower), and Leron McClain to name a few that are primarily power backs without a ton of speed or moves.
by CanadianViking on Jun 6, 2010 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions
You’re right that they play a similar style, but almost every one of the backs on that list are faster and more agile than Gerhart. Outside of maybe Lewis, who hasn’t been productive in 4 years, and McClain, who isn’t even a RB but rather a FB. If you want to compare Gerhart to FBs than I think you’ve got a pretty good argument about his skills. But I think management has made it pretty clear he wasn’t drafted to play FB.
Eh, I don’t know how comparable any of those guys are to Bettis or Alstott though. Probably only Leron McClain, who has similar speed to the two.
I don’t really think Gerhart is in the mold of a Alstott or Bettis though either. Didn’t he run like a low 4.5? He’s probably faster then both Bettis and Alstott.
What do you think his role is gonna be? I thought the pick was kind of confusing. I thought you guys would draft a guy more similar to Taylor who could come in and contribute right away on 3rd downs, and maybe Gerhart will be able to do that but to me that’s not really his game.
by packallday555 on Jun 6, 2010 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions
I wasn’t really comparing Gerhart to Bettis and Alstott, just commenting that a physical style that isn’t based on a lot of moves is still productive in the league today. At first I thought we would draft a small quick back but after looking at Gerhart more I’m starting to see some similar qualities to Taylor. He’s a solid pass blocker with reliable hands who has more power than Taylor but less agility.
I think he’ll spell AD and get some of the third down touches Taylor got. Gerhart will probably get a fair bit of late game action to run out the clock and help keep AD from getting too much wear and tear. I also think Reynaud will win the third RB spot and be our main pass catching back on longer third down plays and become a poor man’s Reggie Bush flex type player for us.
by CanadianViking on Jun 6, 2010 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions
I doubt they wanted Best..
Why would they trade BEHIND the Rams if that was the case? Everyone knew the Rams were looking for a RB too. No, I think they wanted Patrick Robinson. Since, you know, they took a big ol’ reach on Cook with that first 2nd round pick, and the teams behind them really didn’t have Secondary as a pressing need. That makes alot more sense to me. It’s pretty obvious they were going to use that first pick on a CB. And Best would not have lasted until our next pick.
Well yeah, and the fact that you guys traded the pick to the Lions who then used it on Best. I think I remember reading that Spielman was really hoping that Wilson would fall to you guys.
by packallday555 on Jun 6, 2010 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions
yea
you’re probably right about not wanting Best b/c the rams did have a need at RB.
On the bright side, I think Gerhart is a much better athlete than people give him credit for. He is also 20lbs smaller than alstott and bettis and does not have the same power. Obviously we will just have to wait and see. I just hope he can catch the ball and block, something we havent seen a lot of in college.
I do like what the vikings are saying by drafting Gerhart. Hey NFL, we are going to line up and smash the rock in your face. I really appreciate the physical style of play that Childress and Co. have brought to the Vikings. I love being able to say without a doubt that the vikings are one of the most physical teams in the nfl.
Is the name Toby short for something? b/c its a weak name. Pretty sure I can beat up anyone named toby. He is lucky Gerhart is a bad ass name and somewhat compensates for the lameness of toby.
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