An Open Letter from the Minnesota State Legislature
by Ted Glover on May 6, 2010 11:33 AM CDT
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Dear Minnesota Vikings Players, Fans, and Employees,
We here in the Legislature understand that you want a new stadium for the largest entertainment industry in this state. HAH! Do you realize that we have a budget deficit? Do you know HOW we got that budget deficit? Yes, that’s right. WE, the Legislature, did that!! It takes one hell of an effort to go from a budget surplus to a multibillion dollar deficit in under a decade, and we’d like a little recognition for that, thank you very much. How can you expect us to solve a legitimate problem when we can’t solve ones we created ourselves? Quite frankly, we think that’s pretty damn selfish of you people, and we’re pretty offended.
You are apparently under some misguided notion that WE are here to serve YOU. Yes, that’s what you’re taught in school systems all over this fine state, but quite frankly, that couldn’t be farther from the truth. You see, we are self-serving politicians, and we are attention whores that like to see our names in newspapers, and our faces on TV. Now really, how could you expect that to happen if we went about our business in a reserved, common sense manner? I mean, if we actually did what you think we’re supposed to do, there would have been a stadium years ago, and our budget would be balanced.
There would be no reason to call a press conference, accuse other self serving attention whores of being self…serving…attention…whores, and see ourselves on TV that night. Now I ask you, what fun would that be?
See, approving a stadium is politically risky, and one thing we DON’T do, under ANY circumstances around here, is to stand up for what we believe in, or do the right thing. Well, that’s two things. Christ, we can’t even count to two, unless it’s two billion, which is the deficit we’ve managed to accrue. But we’ve already talked about that.
Doing something that creates over 3,000 construction jobs, continues an annual $20 million tax revenue stream into the state, and keeps the Vikings in Minnesota is a phenomenal idea. Doing it without adding to our state deficit is one of the most creative, ingenious plans we’ve ever heard.
Which is why we can’t support it, of course.
Yes, the Racino plan would have worked, and yes, according to some polls, up to 80% of Minnesotans approved of it, but what we here in the Legislature really like to do is pander for campaign money. Groups like the Native American Tribes have it, and you don’t. You see, with the money they give us, they get to tell us what to do! And the great thing is, we do it, and don’t give two hoots in hell as to whether it will benefit the state or not! It’s a wonderful system.
So really, quit worrying about something so trivial as an iconic sports team with over 50 years of history and tradition in this state, and worry about important stuff, like how we're going to screw the budget up even more.
Sincerely,
The Minnesota House and Senate
PS...And the Governor, too!!!
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Right on Ted!!!!
Frikin’ pricks!
McCourty will do. If the Packers don't take him first... they would.
Hopefully our time is coming.....
I can’t wait to get Pawlenty out of office! He has been a terrible Governor….I want Ventura back….he wouldn’t stand for this BS!
Didn't Ventura essentially torpedo the new Twins stadium...
… only to have it revive after he left? Or am I wrong on that?
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on May 6, 2010 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I haven't found any
politicians worth my vote. I’ll keep looking…
Best of two evils
Though I too hate the polichickens, it must be said that not voting at all is a worse idea. Chances are, you probably disagree with one of the candidates more than you do the other. Not voting assures you nothing.
I just have lost a lot of faith
in our system after what happened with Jed (Jeb?) in Florida a few years back.
self serving politicians
he does not want to do anything to “jeopardize” his presidential run if he ever decides too. Guess who’s not voting for you tim, this guy!
Guys, I'm slightly confused.
http://blog.vikings.com/2010/05/05/stadium-financing-plan-passes-house-committee/
Says here, it passed. Which is a good thing.
It has a little ways to go yet, but it did pass. Am I missing something?
Was that as of recent?
I know the vote was split…
Like 6-5 or 11-10 or something of that sort.
When a bill is THAT close to failing… You know it will eventually go thru in due time. Unless our window of opportunity ends and the Vikings move.
Than, we’re basically screwed..
With that being said, I’ll research into every poltician in Minnesota. Those that went against this, will not only NOT get my vote, but I will use social networking to advertise that. Those that were for it, will get my vote. However, it will be too late.
As of now… I can not see someone like T-Paw even getting a remote chance to make it as a president. He is not working with the people the way he should.
Yeah, it failed initially..
But it was then reworked and it passed House.
MN Senate has to take a look at it now.
The Vikings bill was defeated 10-9
in the House Committee on Shortsightedness and Jackassery the morning after that vote you cite, pretty much killing any chance for passing a bill that can get signed into law by the end of the session.
So I used to go by MilCardFan, but I was able to change my screen name. Because I'm kind of a big deal. People know me. Yeah.
So it failed. Got reworked. Passed. And then failed again?
Where are all of you guys getting your info from?
Right here
From this Strib story.
Key paragraph:
Rep. Morrie Lanning, R-Moorhead, another supporter of the plan, said after the hearing that a stadium proposal now had less than a 5 percent chance of passing before legislators adjourn on May 17. Others, including House Majority Leader Tony Sertich, quickly dismissed the stadium, saying “It sells [news]papers, it leads the news, but we’re balancing the state budget.”
Now, if by ‘re-work’, you mean completely change the funding sources of the bill, then yeah, it got re-worked. How will that work out? Read this and tell me if you’re encouraged about the ‘re-work and pass’ strategy:
Hours after the House committee’s vote on the original plan, the Senate State Government Operations and Oversight Committee voted to raise money by selling personal seat licenses to fans instead of relying on taxes or money from a new state lottery game.
But even Sen. Tom Bakk, DFL-Cook, a major stadium supporter, was skeptical afterward that the seat-license plan would generate enough money. So was Bagley, who said the Twins looked into a similar arrangement for Target Field and concluded there was a market for selling only 3,000 seat licenses.
No, this bill is 99% dead.
So I used to go by MilCardFan, but I was able to change my screen name. Because I'm kind of a big deal. People know me. Yeah.
Thanks
There’s a lot of misinformation about the whole thing right now, I guess.
This seat license thing is odd, never heard of the concept before.
Virtually every new stadium, or even refurbishment of old ones ...
… in the last 10 years have sold Personal Seat Licenses as a way to partially fund them.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on May 6, 2010 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions
So I've just not been paying enough attention.
Good to know!
How do they work? What’s the average price, etc.
Depends
Some of the PSL’s Jerry Jones is charging are over $20,000, upwards of 50, from what I’ve read. They want to charge $8,000 for the VIkes, and that charge is on top of the price of season tickets. It was a non-starter for Target Field, and in this economy, I don’t see it generating the revenue needed in this situation.
So I used to go by MilCardFan, but I was able to change my screen name. Because I'm kind of a big deal. People know me. Yeah.
It won't generate enough money...
… but football stadiums almost always do much better selling PSLs than baseball stadiums do. Mostly because the season ticket base for NFL games is so much broader than it is for baseball or basketball.
Not many baseball fans want to see all 81 home games in person, and while most teams don’t require you purchase all 81 home games in order to be considered a season ticket holder, the fewer tickets the season ticket holder actually buys, the less you can charge for the PSL. So PSL’s are actually pretty good money spinners for NFL stadiums, but they’ve never come close to paying for more than a small percentage of a stadium.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on May 6, 2010 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know about average price...
… but they’re something akin to a guy with a mask pointing a gun at you and demanding several thousand dollars.
Basically they require anyone interested in buying season tickets in the new stadium to pay for a “license” to make the purchase. So you give the team lots of money for the right to give them lots of additional money.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on May 6, 2010 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions
In a nutshell, yes
The Twins did research and found there were about 3,000 season ticket holders willing to pay a PSL for Twins tickets, and I think the dollar amount was less than the $8,000 mentioned in the story
So I used to go by MilCardFan, but I was able to change my screen name. Because I'm kind of a big deal. People know me. Yeah.
It doesn't have too..
.. the Packers sold PSL’s for the “new” Lambeau several years ago and the turnover for season tickets wasn’t all that dramatic. Most people raised the money and paid it, and then tried to recoup their expenses by selling more of their tickets than usual for the next couple of years. And their waiting list for season tickets is still tens of thousands long.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on May 6, 2010 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions
How exactly do Packer fans continue to afford funding their obsession? Green Bay certainly doesn’t seem to be all that affluent by any means.
Green Bay's more affluent than it seems.
People look at it and think it’s a blue collar town, and it is, but those mills employ some well compensated engineers and corporate types too. But yeah, it’s not exactly the Hamptons. The Green Bay TV market extends down the river into the Lake Winnebago area, where Kimberly Clark was historically headquartered, and there’s still some old wealth in those communities for those days.
But Green Bay’s affluency is almost beside the point. The Packers have two distinct season ticket packages left over from the days when they played half their games in Milwaukee. The only Milwaukee season ticket holders, the so called “Gold” package, still get dibs on tickets for 3 regular season games per year, with the old Green Bay ticket holders getting dibs on 5 regular season games per year. That allows the team to tap into the relative wealth of southeastern Wisconsin. Some Gold package ticket holders have also gotten their hands on Green ticket packages.
Bottom line is that the Packers draw season ticket holders from all over the state, or at least 150 miles in any direction. I’m not sure if that’s the case for other teams. The other means by which some families maintain the tickets is to split them among the family. One family I know has had 4 seats for a couple of generations, and they’ve got about a dozen people kicking in and using them, with each of them going to a few games a year. With the waiting list as long as it is, and fans from other parts of the country making “pilgrimages” to Lambeau just to say they have, demand for tickets is high, and some ticket holders fund their entire seasons by selling their seats for a couple of games.
For the Minnesota game last year, there’s a judge who sold his 4 seats for a few thousand by putting up a sign on his courtroom door saying first come, first served.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on May 7, 2010 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Ugh...
I don’t even know what to say about this. Just, Ugh.
Just keep in mind. $527,000,000 is a SH*T TON of money. Think about it. Before you go b*tching about the politicians. Think about it. We are so used to seeing these huge numbers thrown around. But actually think about how much money, of the taxpayers, this actually is. That is $527 MILLION dollars. There better be a LOT of thought, talk, studies, and debate about spending $527 million dollars of other peoples money… especially on a private business.
really?
you… me… and about 200 million other US Tax Payers are ponying up about $7BILLION (that’s with a B) to bail out GREECE.
That’s about $200 each.
How much discussion did we get about that? Not much that’s for sure…
GREECE! That f***ing money is never coming back. That’s not an investment in anything that improves business HERE.
At least the Vikings employ Minnesotans, buy from MN companies, pay MN taxes, rinse repeat.
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on May 6, 2010 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions
So your argument is: The Gov’t is spending a ton of money somewhere else, so at least the stadium isn’t as bad as that waste of money. It might be bad, but at least its not that bad! How does that change the stadium situation and the $527 Million dollars? The issue still applies. And like my mother told me a long time ago…Two wrongs do not make a right.
Edit: For background information. I am torn on this situation. I want me some Vikings, but I have to remove my personal bias and look at the situation for what it is. And I am also trying my hardest to stay out of anything political (besides this I guess, cuz its on my Vikes site here) because I am pretty skeptical of our system as a whole right now and hence can’t fairly speak on this greece situation as a comparison because I know nothing of it.
by footballninja on May 6, 2010 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions
No...
we are on the same page – I too am frustrated…
but if you believe this is going to happen:
“There better be a LOT of thought, talk, studies, and debate about spending $527 million dollars of other peoples money”
…let me tell you about Santa Claus…
These are politicians. Their minds are made by the $$$ they see – thought, talk, studies, and debate are created to support the decision they’ve already made.
My point about GREECE! (yeah, F*** GREECE, TSSC) supports my statement that politicians don’t give a rolling F*** about ‘the people’, their desires, or the ‘real’ costs of doing anything.
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on May 6, 2010 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah!
F*** Greece! Let’s build a sports stadium!
Sorry. I get what you’re saying, but the all caps GREECE! just struck me funny.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on May 6, 2010 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Nice Arizona, You nailed it
The Vikings are an investment. I don’t get these politicians. They don’t want their name attached to anything unless it is for the little children. Spineless assholes. Yes its a lot of money. Millions of dollars go right back into Minnesota everytime the Vikes play. The venue will be used for all kinds of money generating events. I don’t live in Minnesota but I am from here.
All I can say is put the heat on your politicians. I like many of you would hate to see the Vikes leave. The Colts left Baltimore and they were a historic part of the NFL long before the Vikings were even in existence. Ziggy will have no choice but to sell. The new Target field is bringing in tons of money into Minnesota & will for years to come. A new Vikings stadium would do the same. Los Angeles Vikings that doesn’t even sound good.
Yeah, it is
So what’s your point? The government can piss away $500 million before I have a cup of coffee in the morning and not blink an eye, because the government doesn’t give two shits about how they spend it, only that they are spending it. But that’s not the point.
The point is that the Vikings generate $20 million/yr in tax revenue in the Metrodome. I have seen estimates that it could go up to $30 million. If the facility has a retractable roof, the building can be used year round for other things, bringing in more revenue, both in terms of people spending money in shops, restaurants, bars, etc.
And this bill had no increased taxes for everyone across the board. It was a series of hotel room taxes, rental car taxes, and jersey sales taxes. So it was going to be paid for by tourists and people that essentially have a vested interest (sports fans generally buy jerseys and are supporters of the team).
When Wilf announces he’s selling the team and the new ownership group says they’re moving, the same dumb asses who are killing this bill today will be the same ones wailing that the Vikings are a state institution and will try in vain to get something done. But by then it will be too late.
And then they’ll sue to keep the team name and colors for a franchise that won’t ever come back.
Whoop de doo.
So I used to go by MilCardFan, but I was able to change my screen name. Because I'm kind of a big deal. People know me. Yeah.
Yes..
T-Paw is a moron…
He’s so against raising taxes.. It’s not going to effect Minnesotans that much…
Jersey Sales Tax?
Running lottery tickets specifically for the Vikings? Why not??
You won’t do the Racino Bill, may as well attempt the lottery…
Also, maybe run Minnesota taxes to include a line where a dollar amount donation can be made for the stadium.. Why not??
So many options, that can stream revenue directly to the issue, but just get pushed over.
If T-Paw ever thinks he’ll be president, he is completely fooling himself.
Your right Deek
Hey put $1, $5, $10, $20 donation check boxes on your state income tax. Those that want to support can without any hassle. Then put lets bury this dump donation boxes throughout the Metrodome.
OK
So, to your first point that you tried to make before regressing and saying that thats not the point. Read my response above one post, dude made pretty much the same argument, but just because they are spending out of control doesn’t mean we should not care when they spend out of control when it is something we personally support. (not necessarily saying this is ‘spending out of control’, thats another discussion)
Second point: It will generate money for the state. No doubt. Absolutely it will. But, do you think there could be other ‘investments’ that one could make with $527 million dollars that could produce $30 million in revenue? Maybe even more? Some compounding over the years perhaps if the investment was pushed in possible other directions? I don’t know. Obviously this is about more than just bringing back in money (i think), because if thats the c ase this probably isn’t the most efficient way to do it. This argument is more like at the end of it all, you can turn and say, ‘yeah, it was a crap load of money, but at least we are getting some money back each year’. And of course that money back is just from more tax paying citizens that the gov’t will turn around and spend in another way that we may or may not agree with.
Third Point: “no increased taxes for everyone across the board”. Ok. So only some people will be paying for it. First, I will give you the Jersey Sales Taxes. Thats fine. In fact, it kinda makes sense. But the hotel room taxes are going to be … regular tax payers. I spend tons of nights in hotels myself. Same with cabs. Its not going to be “people that essentially have a vested interest”. Again, except for the Jersey’s. Oh’ Its going to be tourists… OK. Well, thats fine, its all good if we make other citizens pay for it! Who cares?! Its not us… MWA HA HA. We gottem good….
NO. This is exactly what is wrong with the political philosophies that are running our country into further and further debt. Both sides of the aisles. This money is our money. Its the citizens money. And we (the gov’t) are spending way to much of it. Doesn’t change the argument just because it is out of towners paying for part of it.
Fourth point: “When Wilf…” OK. And this changes what exactly?
The only reason that we are considering forking over the money is because if we don’t some people somewhere else will (LA). Hence, they got us by the balls. Build it, or we are out. I understand this sad reality. I do, I get it. I personally truly believe that the vikings will be staying in MN. I just hope my representatives do everything in their power to put the majority of the price tag on those who are directly profiting off of it and those who truly are supporters of spending their money on the Vikings.
Side note: I think you are a good addition to this writing staff and have done a great job up to this point. But, I think you like many other devoted fans of the Vikings have a bias that is hard to remove. I am not that well versed in these types of negotiations (if they can be called that), but I don’t think the politicians in any way are saying F*ck You to the citizens like you seem to suggest that they are. This is part of the process of finding a workable solution. And, in the end I don’t think your one sided rant about how it pisses you off that you are not getting your brand new stadium is furthering the discussion or negotiations in any way.
by footballninja on May 6, 2010 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions
It seems we philosophically disagree
on the Vikings being a wise investment. Governments give money, in the terms of favorable property and sales tax rates to corporations all the time so they can lure them to their state. You yourself said you don’t know if their is a tangible ‘thing’ the government can spend $527 million dollars on and get a return on investment, yet it’s a fact that the Vikings bring a minimum of $20 million/yr in tax revenue today, as we speak. When you add things like NCAA regional finals, final fours, truck rallies, concerts, etc., that will use the facility there’s a good chance that amount will go up significantly. That’s real money we can point to. Can we do that if that $527 million is allocated somewhere else?
Now, if WIlf moves the team, take that revenue stream out of the Minnesota coffers, plus the money they won’t get in outlying years, it puts more pressure on you, the taxpayer, because if you think government will spend less, you’re nuts. They’ll increase taxes to make up the shortfall. That’s how that changes, exactly.
The regular tax payers that will be paying the hotel/rental car taxes are mostly out of towners. Yeah, they’re regular taxpayers like you, and when you go somewhere, chances are the hotel room/rental car tax you’re paying in city X is going to pay off that cities stadium.
We do agree that government spending, at the state and federal level, is completely out of control. But there are things that government can spend wisely on, and I believe a stadium that benefits the state economically, as long as the civic pride, is something worth spending money on.
So I used to go by MilCardFan, but I was able to change my screen name. Because I'm kind of a big deal. People know me. Yeah.
My tone must not of come of correct in the part where I was saying I don’t know if the Gov’t can make a different investment where they could create $20 mil a year of $527 million dollar investment… Of course they could. No problem. But it is not the gov’ts job to take money from individuals, pool it, and decide how to invest it so they can pull a revenue and then turn around and spend that how they see fit.
by footballninja on May 6, 2010 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Two scenarios
Stadium Bill passes…..
*New stadium….. Thrives out of town visitors to check out the new stadium & watch the Vikings play. Some people may have already seen a Vikings game in the old stadium, but a new stadium may entice them to come back to watch another one.
*Jobs…. Construction jobs to build the stadium.. Jobs of people who would be employed to maintain the stadium… Jobs of people who would likely live in the area year round to work in the front-office…
*Increase in business to local businesses to the stadium.. Have a business near by? Your likely to have an increase of business. More customers nearby meaning people can stay in a hotel, eat at a nearby restaurant, shop at a local strip mall or target/walmart, and so forth.
*Bars – will likely maintain a higher capacity during Vikings games… and so forth
Or.. The Vikings move to another state…
Basically all stated above will be lost…
Jobs are lost…
Local business will lose business
Even worse, some football fans may result to going to the next local NFL team to cheer for (GB Packers). This would mean an increase for sales/business in Wisconsin during the football season. And all that revenue that came in via Vikings would be lost..
Or.. The Vikings move to another state…
Basically all stated above will be lost…
Jobs are lost…
Local business will lose business
Even worse, some football fans may result to going to the next local NFL team to cheer for (GB Packers). This would mean an increase for sales/business in Wisconsin during the football season. And all that revenue that came in via Vikings would be lost..End result, we would realize our mistake, and pursue another team.. Watching the Vikings probably win their first superbowl as the LA Vikings while we’re stuck with some Minnesota team that is as bad as the Detroit Lions have been in recent years… Making it hard to fill the stadium since so many people are upset about how we lost the Vikings.
Or.. The Vikings move to another state…
Basically all stated above will be lost…
Jobs are lost…
Local business will lose business
Even worse, some football fans may result to going to the next local NFL team to cheer for (GB Packers). This would mean an increase for sales/business in Wisconsin during the football season. And all that revenue that came in via Vikings would be lost..End result, we would realize our mistake, and pursue another team.. Watching the Vikings probably win their first superbowl as the LA Vikings while we’re stuck with some Minnesota team that is as bad as the Detroit Lions have been in recent years… Making it hard to fill the stadium since so many people are upset about how we lost the Vikings.In the 2010 season, I’m going to try extra hard to see a Vikings game at the Metrodome, since it may be the last year they play in Minnesota.
Or.. The Vikings move to another state…
Basically all stated above will be lost…
Jobs are lost…
Local business will lose business
Even worse, some football fans may result to going to the next local NFL team to cheer for (GB Packers). This would mean an increase for sales/business in Wisconsin during the football season. And all that revenue that came in via Vikings would be lost..End result, we would realize our mistake, and pursue another team.. Watching the Vikings probably win their first superbowl as the LA Vikings while we’re stuck with some Minnesota team that is as bad as the Detroit Lions have been in recent years… Making it hard to fill the stadium since so many people are upset about how we lost the Vikings.In the 2010 season, I’m going to try extra hard to see a Vikings game at the Metrodome, since it may be the last year they play in Minnesota.I intend to follow this particular issue a little bit more closely… So I know who NOT to VOTE for come election times… Even if we do indeed lose the Vikings, whoever is remotely responsible, will not get my vote.
Or.. The Vikings move to another state…
Basically all stated above will be lost…
Jobs are lost…
Local business will lose business
Even worse, some football fans may result to going to the next local NFL team to cheer for (GB Packers). This would mean an increase for sales/business in Wisconsin during the football season. And all that revenue that came in via Vikings would be lost..End result, we would realize our mistake, and pursue another team.. Watching the Vikings probably win their first superbowl as the LA Vikings while we’re stuck with some Minnesota team that is as bad as the Detroit Lions have been in recent years… Making it hard to fill the stadium since so many people are upset about how we lost the Vikings.In the 2010 season, I’m going to try extra hard to see a Vikings game at the Metrodome, since it may be the last year they play in Minnesota.I intend to follow this particular issue a little bit more closely… So I know who NOT to VOTE for come election times… Even if we do indeed lose the Vikings, whoever is remotely responsible, will not get my vote.
Post error..
Awesome…. I love when that happens…
Like I really typed it all out that way..
A chart you may be interested in
Go to http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2009/09/politicians-score-significant.html
At the bottom of the page is a chart the shows that in the last 20 years the Viking’s owners, coaches and staff have given 89% of their contributions to Republicans. They probably helped get Pawlenty elected and got nothing for their efforts. It was payback time. What happened?
by JethroBoViking on May 6, 2010 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Good.
There are plenty of good reasons to support using tax payer money on the stadium but most of them amount to things like ‘I hate the Dome" or "I don’t want the Vikings to leave town." BUT there is no good economic reason for devoting tax payer funds to a stadium project. Infrastructure investments, a smart power grid, green energy initiatives — all of those things would boost long term economic growth. A stadium would not.
The University of Chicago measured the positive economic impact of building a new downtown stadium in 2005 and determined that any government that does spend tax payer money on a stadium in order to “stimulate the economy” would be better off just throwing the money out of a helicopter and letting people randomly pick it up and spend it. This is due to the same multiplier effect that makes unemployment spending the most cost effective way to stimulate aggregate demand.
The multiplier effect works against discretionary spending projects whenever the permanent new jobs created by the project are mostly low paying and the high paying jobs that are created are all short term employment in sectors like architecture, planning and construction. If a city builds something like a new airport in order to attract a major airline to set up its main hub there then you would see the creation of permanent high pay jobs that would boost the local economy. This would also be why Richfield willingly pushed several dozen homeowners off their property to allow Best Buy to build their new HQ off of 494 & 35W.
One caveat: The costs of building ANYTHING right now are in a relative sense very, very low. This is the only economic argument for building now rather than later.
by nani on May 6, 2010 6:54 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
BUT there is no good economic reason for devoting tax payer funds to a stadium project. Infrastructure investments, a smart power grid, green energy initiatives — all of those things would boost long term economic growth. A stadium would not.
I disagree, emphatically. A world-class event venue opens the doors to world-class branding for all things Minnesota. The Vikings would only use the stadium for a maximum of 14 exclusive days out of the year, yet the Vikings owner is willing to foot 30% of the bill. Extremely generous. More, the stadium project would bring 2 years of construction jobs, and… wow, why I am bothering. All this ground has been covered before.
Green anything is a total waste of money, short and long term. A ‘smart grid’ is yet another boon-doggle who’s benefits are unproven. Infrastructure is always good, but it isn’t an either-or proposition.
The University of Chicago measured
Disreputable the moment you said, “Chicago”. Who’s pocket are they in?
Bottom line is that the most vocal group of Minnesotans don’t want the Vikings. Instead of looking for ways to pony up the negligible cost for a new stadium, they seek every excuse they can find to avoid it.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
spot on!
…build a green stadium! …Maybe there are stimulator funds available for a project like that.
well… IF the Vikings move to LA, I might be able to take in a few home games.
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on May 7, 2010 11:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Stealing enjoyment
My wife approached me recently and quite abruptly insinuated that losing the Vikings wouldn’t really be all that big of deal. She claimed I could just “fine another hobby” or “do more work” to replace the lost time and dedication to the team. It took me a while to formulate a solid statement to defend myself but eventually I came up with this:
The Vikings are a combination of hobby, passion, pass-time, and escapism. I related them directly to her favorite hobby, reading. I asked her what she would be willing to give up if faced with someone who was holding her ability to read hostage. “What if someone said give me 1 million dollars or you will never be able to read again. Would it be worth just giving the person the money in order to save something that dear to you?” I explained to her that thats exactly what the Wilf’s are doing to us right now.
Needless to say, she was pretty speechless after that.
Continuing the analogy
Better to tell your wife that her favorite bookstore, the only bookstore in the town of no libraries, that had been built with the help of the shopkeeper who leased it, is about to close. No new books will ever be available to read again. The shopkeeper of the bookstore has been trying to turn a profit so that he could take care of and feed his family company like all shopsmiths and has been doing it providing the best available authors and store functions, but for years now he has stated to the owner of the building that he needs a new and improved building to stay profitable. There is quickly approaching a time when he will no longer be profitable and will have to close his doors or see if they can be profitable in somebody else’s building.
The shopkeeper is even willing to pitch in a third of the cost of a new store so that he can stay in his local town that he loves so much. The owner of the building however is balking at investing the money even though it is a sure investment and earns the owner a substantial profit in the long run. It is confusing to the loyal patrons of the store as to why the building owner rather have an empty building that would surely lose money vs. taking a loan and constructing a new and better shop so that the storekeeper can remain in business locally and generate even more income for the building owner?
The shopkeeper with all his books has a devote customer base that thoroughly enjoys reading. His customers want them to stay, but most don’t understand that he must make a viable profit to do so. Even though the building owner says he wants the shopkeeper to stay as well, he is unwilling to make it happen. The results being all of the things that happened at the shop from the selling of books, to the poetry nights, to the drama and plays, and the high school literary challenges, etc. will no longer be. The town with only one book store and no libraries will no longer have books, just an empty building where the our favorite store used to be.
We can always go back, and pull out the old books and reread them [if we kept them]. We can even talk with our friends nostalgically about the good old days when yearly new books were here and we looked upon in anticipation to see our latest ones on the store shelves. They’ll be only memories then. Too bad you can’t enjoy or pass any new ones on to your kids.
It may take a village to raise a child, but it takes a Viking to raze a village.
Nicely said
A little to real but definitely gets the point across to someone who doesn’t get it.
I’d also like to add to your analogy:
Those that are desperate enough to read books again after the store has closed would be forced to head to the nearest town that has a book store. Unfortunately for us that would be the hell-hole of Green Bay, WS. We could also, theoretically, just all head on down to the shiny new bookstore they have on our local college campus. But unfortunately the books there were all written by 4th graders.
If it were an election year it might have gotten done !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Between this Gov and the NFL’s commish this off season has been a real drag >>>……..
This is an election year in Minnesota
Statewide state offices are all up for election this year. (Guv, Atty. General, Auditor). No big statewide federal offices (Senators) are up or election. The state house is of course up as it is re-elected every two years. The same goes for our Federal reps in the House in D.C.
The problem is the state deficit. None of the politicians want to be seen as giving $‘s to millionaires and billionaires. Whether true or not; and whether it is or is not good for the state is irrelevant. Perception is reality in politics. In addition, the courts just ruled Pawlenty’s unallotments as overstepping his authority. i.e. the deficit problem just got bigger.
A sense of the controversy
My heart goes out to you guys cause potentially losing your franchise sucks. I get it. I know I have posted this before, but I just want to give you all some perspective as to how controversial all of this stadium stuff really is.
I grew up in Green Bay and lived there when the new vote was going down to renovate Lambeau. The state didn’t want it and passed it off to the county first because the state didn’t want another Miller Park against the state fiasco on its hands. So the measure fell to Packer country crazy Brown County. Now I know you all love your Vikings, but how many people here are going to say that any county here in MN, or the Twin Cities in general, are as fanatic about the Vikings as Brown County is about the Packers? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? I didn’t think so. Now this measure was hard fought for months with bitter feelings on both sides and it ended up being like a 51% to 49% split just tending towards the new tax.
Bottom line? If you think this is cut and dry, just git r dun sort of working then you are ignoring how controversial and painful these sorts of things are. Jerry Jones barely got the funding to build his cathedral in Dallas. Dallas people! We could go on and on, and it’s just tough to get something like this passed. I hope it all goes well, but realize that you all may be a vocal minority, and not how MN sees it.
Thanks for being civil about it
I am truly curious how the Packer fans feel about our deteriorating situation here. So thanks for chiming in.
What ticks me off the most about all this noise is how silent the Vikings fans really are. Previous to this, it seemed like every person in the state bled purple. You could walk into any store on a Monday afternoon and strike up a conversation about that last Vikings game or the potential for the upcoming season. Outside of a few art hippies, everyone seemed to love the team.
Then all of a sudden, when they are called upon to step up and show the faces proudly in this debate, droves of those same “fans” disappear without a trace, silently vanishing into the crowd , with some even switching sides completely.
If you hearken back to your Sunday school days, this seems eerily similar to the crowds of people who praised Jesus like a king as he rode into town on Palm Sunday and one week later were the same people yelling “Crucify him! Crucify him!”. And we all know how that story ended. And I highly doubt Wilf can raise this thing from the dead.
What botheres me..
Minnesota is full of sports fans…. From young to old and male and female. During the season, I see updates about the Vikings on facebook…. Good statuses, frustrating statuses, and sad or pissed off statuses. Bars fill up with people to watch specific games. People get together at friends houses to watch a game on a big screen. Now in my area, the Vikings fan base is really high. Every bar I go to seems to have Viking merchandise somewhere. The bar I was in last night had jerseys framed up (Allen, Favre, Peterson, & Harvin). I think for the state of Minnesota, a majority of the fans are Homer-fans. They love the idea of cheering for a team that represents their state. This is what makes teams like the Packers/Bears such a great rivalry, because they are so close.. Now, for every citizen in the state, I find it highy selfish to limit the increase of taxes to just the nearby area. Many people from the midwest enjoy watching the Vikings (a large portion would be from MN alone). The better question on helping fun the bill would be to find a way to find out how these crazed fans hours away from the metro area could still help out on a year ot year basis. You would think a state-wide tax increase at a small % would do the trick. But T-Paw is soley against any sort of tax increase.
They should have a donation box when filing taxes speicifically for the Vikings stadium. (That’s one option).
The Jersey sales tax is another option that would work out well.
Pull-tabs (Non-profit Charities) located inside bars that could fund the stadium (These could be in bars all across MN that already don’t have this option to try to increase funding)
Legalize non-proift gambling inside bars (Pigwheels/Black-Jack) — Hey!! Your employing people at the same time, win/win? This is already legal in N.D., so why not legalize it in MN as well??
Those are just some of my thoughts…
And while we're at it
open the liquor stores on Sundays and sell beer and wine at the grocery store!
With all Sunday liquor sales taxes going to fund the stadium only. Sounds like a winner.
Even here in the “Bible Belt” we can buy any type of liquor after noon on Sunday.
No easy access to beer on game day? That’s a crime!
by JethroBoViking on May 8, 2010 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions
3-2 beer is available..
Why not make it all types…..
Luckily, living near a state border where the laws are different, you can take advantage of the situation.
It really only hurts the middle of the state with those situations..
Than, we can figure 1/7 of the alcohol tax to go towards the stadium, fair enough, right?
No raising of taxes, just including an additional day to bring in taxes.
You had better run for office and get all this stuff passed
I’ll vote for you! Wait……I don’t live in Minnesota. Sorry
by JethroBoViking on May 11, 2010 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions
throw the bums out
Many legislators probably should be in jail.
by medicineball on May 7, 2010 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Heated Pitchforks
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Zygi should.....
Just foot the whole bill and build it himself..
Look at what he can do…
He can buy up a lot of land around the new location.
Get the legislature to give him tax breaks for keeping the Vikings in Minnesota and creating construction jobs… Build a beautiful stadium that has an open roof. Reep the benefits of all the other events that would go on throughout the year (i.e., Concerts, NCAA, Superbowl, Monstruck, H.S. football playoffs, conventions, concessions profits, parking profits, even tailgaiting profits, and so forth). Buy up all the land in the surrounding area, build the stadium, and sell-off the excess land for probably 5 times what it is worth.
Even go as far as putting up a stores within the stadium (Like a strip mall…) Have hotels near by, and even sports bars.. Whatever looks profitable..
Within 30 years, he could probably easily have made his money out of that deal.
If you figure parking, concessions, ticket sales, and so forth.
Just let him find any way for him to maximize his own profits for footing a good portion of the bill.
Why not? Minnesotan’s shouldn’t get mad.. He used his own money!! And to top it off, the Vikings would end up staying in Minnesota.
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