Training camp follow-up/ O-Line competition

by lifelongvike on Jul 30, 2010 7:22 AM CDT

EDIT: Moved to the front page because I was going to write about the o-line next, and didn't see the need to be redundant. Nice writeup LLV. More training camp updates coming later today/tonight!!--Ted

Ted Glover did a great job on the upcomming training camp battle for the third RB position.

What else should we be watching? Lets take a look.

Offensive Line: Many were surprised that an offensive lineman was not selected in the draft prior to 5th rounder Chris DeGeare. But is Chris a lock to make the cut?

The Viking offensive line was ranked 11th in the NFL last year, the best in the NFC North. The line consists of starters

Loadholt, Herrarah, Sullivan, Hutchison, and McKinney.

Playing for a back-up role are the following:

Venerable back-up linemen Jon Cooper (C) and Ryan Cook (OT)

Last years practice squad trainees: OTs Drew Radovich, Patrick Brown, and Chris Clark

This years 5th round draft pick: Chris DeGeare ( versatile OT & G)

Undrafted Free agents :

guards Adrien Battles and Thomas Austin and Bill Noethlich

14 players working on 8 positions. Assume the 5 starters are back. It would be hard to imagine Jon Cooper not maintaining his back-up center spot. That leaves two positions open. Versatility and experience will be a plus. Is it really surprising to see former 2nd round pick Ryan Cook with a leg up on the competition?

Both Chris Clark and Drew Radovich are on their last stint as practice squad members. NFL rules only allow two years of practice squad membership. So either these guys are ready or they are not ready for Prime Time. I can see three rookies making the PS this year.The problem with that is that any PS member can be taken by any team at any time. It is hard to park great talent on the PS.

My guess is that Chris DeGeare makes the squad as a rookie and takes the last spot. His college resume was a lot better than most 5th round selections.

But strong competition will come from the UFA list and three former PS members. That is what we want to find in this training camp. Who has the right stuff to be a valuable member of the Offensive Line for years to come.

This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.

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My view :

The five starters
R.Cook (versatile )
C. DeGeare/WF (OT/OG)
J. Cooper (OC) Cooper has tremendous strength . He benched nearly 40 times at the combine . He is a true Center and lacks versatility .
Loeffler , I always add him to make 9 O-lineman .
Extending the # of RB’s and WR’s tells me that 9 is the # . Chester Pitts just signed with Seattle . That type of free agent or trade could shake up my view .
This is one of few areas that added talent or developement of a darkhorse could help this team .

by gothicpurple on Jul 30, 2010 11:02 AM CDT reply actions

Not sure of Cooper

I think Cooper will spend another year on the PS.

Herrera can play center if needed as well as Cook in a pinch.

But if Cooper is on the PS he can be brought up as well.

I think that DeGeare has to be able to make it or it will have been a wasted pick. The FO does not like to admit they wasted a pick so he will stick. But I think he is better than what I initially thought when we drafted him. He has the size and athleticism. All he needs is some experience.

Cook is obviously going to make it.

So IMO it comes down to all of the PS guys and Cooper.

Unless for some reason we get lucky and pick up a camp casualty or better, trade for someone.

If Griffen and BRob are doing well in this TC and preseason I could see them trying to get something for Ray Edwards.

You know I cannot give it up :)

If we were able to get a good guard (like a Tony Ugoh from Indy who needs a DE) then maybe they pull the trigger. I would think though that we would get a pick (4th or 5th) too.

Maybe not Ray. Maybe someone else?

I am hoping to find out how much Cooper is weighing now. I hope he is up to at least 300 by now and closer to 305. If that is the case then maybe he makes it.

But I think another year on the PS for him will be beneficial for both sides.

by MarkSP18 on Jul 30, 2010 11:45 AM CDT reply actions

Its all about the competition.

Cook pushes Sullivan at the center position
3 UFA players – all guards
3 practice squad Tackles.

The Bengals built a whole line out of their PS players. It might be the plan we are following. We certainly have created the competition for a back up player or two. I like the 6’7" frame on Bill Noethlich. Looks similar to McKinney and Loadholt in frame. I see him making the PS if he shows something special. He came from a very small school so I suspect he will need some PS time.

But I doubt you will be getting a trade ( surprised you didn’t I ). The better question is who is getting cut from the DE spot? Mitchell, Montgomery, or Griffen? I think we keep 4 DEs and I like Griffen. With Rodgers, Stafford, and Cutler in the division we need all the pass rush firepower we can get.

"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp

by lifelongvike on Jul 30, 2010 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions

Tought call on DE

I would be putting my money on Montgomery. I think mostly because we signed him prior to landing Griffen come draft time. So now, I believe the FO will view him as expendable.
Everson Griffen could push Ray Edwards to being a better player for the season, yet also put him at being released if contract deals don’t work out. Griffen could be just as good (possibly) at a cheaper price. Their talent levels may be about the same, but one is going to cost less, so we all assume fresh/rookie that is cheaper is better to keep than a couple-year vet who is pushing for more cash. They both seem to not give 100% all the time… But I bet we could see flashes of either one at moments in time.

Montgomery has the short stick in this… He is unfamiliar to the system, (as well as Griffen), and was probably signed moslty as insurance (Ray Edwards being tendered). Now that we got our bases covered on DE, I would assume Montie’s 1st to go.

by Deek on Jul 30, 2010 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions

Let me clarify

When I was talking about Ray Edwards being released, what I meant was that he could be signing with a new team come next year. We now have adequate back-ups to replace him. Btw, isn’t Mitchell making better $$$ than Edwards?

by Deek on Jul 30, 2010 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions

Good call on Montgomery.

I agree with you that Griffen was probably taken as the BPA in the draft and we had already signed Montgomery. But he is experienced and might show us something. Probably a good call to figure he is the odd man out.

Here is the link for all the Viking contracts. Marksp turned me on to Rotoworld. But No. Edwards tender makes him much higher paid than Jayme Mitchell

I am still of the belief that the Vikes want to sign and pay Ray Edwards. Naturally another team can try to sign him but I would be surprised if both Ray and the Vikes don’t get together before the end of the season. Griffin could be a wildcard that can replace Ray but I thought he was a right side DE as opposed to a left side.

"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp

by lifelongvike on Jul 30, 2010 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions

Wasn't sure

on his positioning.. but if I am wrong about Mitchell making more than Edwards, than, I highly doubt they would be looking to move MItchell. I feel a little more comfortable saying Montie is the odd-guy out, unless he shows to be a great asset, than Mitch could get the boot. But, it’s nice ot have talen when you can utilize it… I doubt we would Griffen/Mont/or Mitch out-perform Edwards, but it would be nice to find the next guy in line in case we need to switch it up a little bit.

by Deek on Jul 30, 2010 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions

IMO

Cooper is one of the last guys to make the cut . I can’t argue your logic . If Chester Pitts were picked up he would be the first to go . His tremendous upper body strength and U. of Oklahoma pedigree would not let him make it thru waivers . Only a 5-7 year vet could displace him . Unless Tripplet, Shuler or D’Imperio impress .

by gothicpurple on Aug 1, 2010 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions

I am a

Brian R. fan, think he has really stepped up and can play inside our out. Lacking a little in size but has a great motor, I would not mind it if he were able to step into a full time DE position.

it is better to be thought of as dumb then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
Ben Franklin

by montana vikes fan on Jul 30, 2010 2:54 PM CDT reply actions

I'm a fan of his also

Somehow I thought somebody on this site convinced me that B.Rob played the right side and backed up J. Allen. Whether or not he can also play the left side I’m not sure. How would you like to be Griffen having to break into a line-up that has Allen, Edwards, and B.Rob. That’s a tough nut to crack. Can B.Rob start? He can if he’s better than Edwards. That’s what Training camp is all about.

I also thought someone said Mitchell can spell at DT for short periods of time. That could spell more trouble for Montgomery.

"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp

by lifelongvike on Jul 30, 2010 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions

I think people were looking at B Rob

To work behind Edwards as JA doesn’t take a lot of downs off. However, the knock against him is that he’s not as good at stopping the run. It must have been a pretty good knock because he later twittered stating he’s hella good against the run. I see him looking at Edwards spot right now.

It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...

by Grime on Jul 30, 2010 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions

One more good year and Edwards is making Huge money.

I doubt that anyone will be beating him out this year.
Dumerville got 10 Mil per year. That is what Edwards will be gunning for.

"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp

by lifelongvike on Jul 30, 2010 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions

full point

that is very true, I half expected B Rob to beat him out last year and he did not. he has played pretty darn good as a back up as well. He is officially behind JA but can play other positions.

it is better to be thought of as dumb then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
Ben Franklin

by montana vikes fan on Jul 30, 2010 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions

That is why the Vikings will not be paying that kind of cheddar

That is why they drafted Griffen

BRob is due for a new deal as well after this year.

I still maintain it is too much money to spend on the dline if you pay Ray upwards of 8 mil per year.

The Vikings may come away empty handed.

I understand the thinking that it may be worth it if a SB Victory is the cost.

The reason why I mentioned Indy is because of this …

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/gallery/NFL-training-camp-position-battles-072810#sport=NFL&photo=11532423

.. Tony Ugoh played left tackle too. But they are moving him inside to guard.

That is OK for us because we would have him, DeGeare, & Loadholt all with LT experience.

And of course the PS fodder.

by MarkSP18 on Jul 30, 2010 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions

Isn't Ugoh being changed to guard

because he was such a disappointment at LT? Just another teams castoff that doesn’t play in our Zone blocking scheme.

You have been very concerned with getting some value for Ray Edwards before he leaves at the end of the season. That is understandable. But there is some value to having Ray for this one season, if it comes to that. Much more value , I think, than risking blowing up an offensive line. Plus, he might not leave.
Read this fanshot

I sure hope your theory that our O-Line needs revamping is incorrect. I guess we will know soon.

"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp

by lifelongvike on Jul 31, 2010 6:17 AM CDT up reply actions

Ugoh is being changed to a guard

Just what we need. But he has versatility as a LT (in a pinch) too.

As far as Edwards goes, I have always said I thought they should pay him.

Either that or get something for him. A SB win will make everything better but going forward he will want to get paid as well as BRob (who may want a chance to play more than anything else).

As for the O-line, I hope that they are better and I understand the reasoning of the FO in not moving anyone or drafting anyone really high. They believe they still have a couple of years left. I do not HOPE that they are WRONG. I hope they are right.

But I have always been viewing this in the long term prospects of the line without taking away any of the short term capabilities. When your read scouts and experts saying that McKinnie has lost a step it does become concerning. And when you see it for yourself it is also a confirmation of what you believed you saw.

Hutch thinks they will be better and I do believe him. It still does not address what is behind them. That is where most of my pre-draft posts and mocks were trying to address.

For example, if the Vikings could have moved up to get a guy like Bulaga when he was available at around #19 that would have been great IMO. They would have had a young All American LT/LG to backup Hutch & McKinnie. Then when the two year window closes on this veterans, Bulaga would be ready to step in and play at the NFL level. There would be no need to rush him.

With the talent the Vikings have most of our picks can be groomed. Cook does not need to be rushed into action. If he can do it then by all means put him in, but we do not have to rush him. Griffin & DeGeare as well.

Gerhart is different in that he is a back and he will mainly just have to carry the ball.

I think the revamping of the O-line is something that should not be done all at once. A piece here and there is what will get it done. Next year the window for Hutch & McKinnie will be getting closer to closed. We definitely should be looking at someone to groom. Perhaps they will go the free agent route? I hope so but that is a gamble and a bidding war. And not to mention who maybe available.

So do we draft an OT high? I am in the camp of drafting a QB high. So which will it be. Next year we will be going back and forth on this. Both spots are very important.

But that is next year and I am now mainly concerned with this year. I still think they can do some things to bring in some type of offensive lineman depending on how it goes in practice and the pre-season games.

I think we need one more veteran for this year to go with Cook and DeGeare.

by MarkSP18 on Jul 31, 2010 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions

Can't disagree with you on that perspective, Mark

We agree on about everything. I even agree that the Vikes evaluated the O-Line and took a risk that they would be better or the same as last year. I’m thinking the two year window gives us a lot of opportunity to fix anything broken.
I’m certainly in on getting a very talented QB next year (unless T-Jack or Sage shine). even then I would have to contemplate it.
When I look at the 53 man roster I don’t see a lot of room to groom anyone. Whichever of the guys in training camp looks to be a future O-Lineman we have to keep on the active roster. That only leaves two spots after the starting 5 and Ryan Cook. Could be any of the other 8 guys.

Its time to find out who brought it to camp this year.
Skol

"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp

by lifelongvike on Jul 31, 2010 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions

I agree we need a vet to go with Cook and Degeare

With the talent and experience we have on our team, we are lacking in quality depth on our O-line. Cooper admitted that he was just finding his way last year and now with a lot of film study this offseason the game has slowed down for him. This is very important because we are going to use him as our primary backup to Sully, with Cook backing up the tackles and Degeare backing up the guards.

by nmvikesfan on Jul 31, 2010 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions

It will be a dog fight

Clark & Radovich cannot go on the practice squad. Their eligibility is up.

Cooper still has some PS eligibility.

Maybe Thoma Austin will surprise?

Donald Penn and ex Viking PS player just got paid big bucks by the Bucs.

Kyle Cook and ex Viking PS player is the starting center for Cincinnati.

So maybe the PS guys are decent?

by MarkSP18 on Jul 31, 2010 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions

The better news is about McKinney

1) McKinney is very talented and has an improved attitude. HERE

"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp

by lifelongvike on Aug 2, 2010 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions

Definitely encouraging

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Aug 3, 2010 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions

In a BR interview he spoke of E.Griffen’s speed . I see a switch . Brian has played the Left . His inside play is an indicator of his run stuffing ability . He said Everson is lacking in his ability to use his hands (bad) . Jared could work with him . IMO E.Griffon has more upside at RDE . Pat will need assistance of any of the lineman . Robson fits well rotating from the Left . This is truely a monster of a line .

by gothicpurple on Aug 1, 2010 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions