10 Million per year is the New Normal!!! Pay the Men.

Is AP, Sidney, and Greenway at the top? I guess I would answer that this way.
AP- No question. If this is a question in anyone’s mind they don’t really understand what he has accomplished. He is 26 years old and has one last contract to sign before he is considered over the hill. I would try and sign him early. If they don’t then they will simply be in a bidding war next year. Either way they will have to pay him or lose him.

Sidney- He is tall, effective, and young. He is everything the Vikings expected when they drafted him. I can’t name 7 receivers I would rather have on my team so I think he is a top player. If anyone thinks he is simply replaceable with another free agent ( like Berrian was ) or a draft pick then there is no reason to even try to sign him. I believe he will be sought after by other teams. Just look at Nate Burleson, 5 years, 25 Mil, 11 Mil guaranteed. Who would you rather have?

Greenway. Is he as good as Dansby or Ryans? He is to the Vikings. He was a first round draft choice and has not disappointed. He is ready for his prime contract.

The problem with signing these players is the uncertainty of a new CBA. No team wants to shell out the guaranteed money and then have a lock-out. Again this is a problem the owners have created. The players have said they will extend the last CBA. If I wanted these three players as a nucleus for my team I would lock them up now. But I believe we will not have a lock-out. Of course my wanting to sign them and the players wanting to sign are two different matters.

Sorry, that’s just how I feel. They have taken a page out of the Dan Snyder book, and have been financially impulsive lately, with both Peppers and the Cutler trade. We should regard those deals as outliers (liek the Herschel Walkder trade of old), not the “new normal”

Also I think you overstate the value of the Hainesworth deal, form what I read recently. Apparently the contract is written in such a way that it is really a one year deal, the Rams can walk away easily if they want, and that 40m is really not all guaranteed.

But with the rest of your list you may have a point.

I write this article for those Viking fans out there that think AP, Sidney Rice, or Chad Greenway who all have contracts coming up next year will somehow magically sign for contracts that are not in the 8-10 Mil per year range. Great players are worth a lot of money.

5 things:
1) By the time those players demand huge contracts, some will have already had their best seasons, so it could benefit the team to have another team pay them crazy cash for less production (especially if Sidney is the next Peerless Price).
2) Aside from AP (whose ypc has declined each year so far after failing to stay healthy for more than 1 year in college), the others are not necessarily top notch at their positions. I’ve heard nobody suggest that Greenway is the best OLB in the NFL. So far, Rice has been a 1-year wonder who couldn’t stay healthy before that, and Peerless Price had been more productive through this point of their careers.
3) $10M is not really the norm unless you’re talking about the very best at a premium position.

In terms of the top RBs, Reggie Bush is overpaid at $12M while LT2 and Steven Jackson are next with about $7.5M cap values (and may have actually earned less than that in 2009). The rest of the top 10 RBs by salary earned in the $6M range. AP should not cost more than $7-8M/yr. They were under the cap already, and some big salaries would drop off the roster over the life of AP’s (and Sidney’s and Greenway’s) contract(s).

Remember when you wrote that Sidney’s agent would not agree to a low base salary? Larry Fitzgerald’s 2009 base salary was only $1.6M, but his cap value was almost $11M, and Fitzgerald has done a lot more (and started to be extremely productive much earlier) than Sidney Rice. Sidney should be very happy to sign a new contract of $$5-7.5M range, which is similar to Laveraneous Coles, Reggie Wayne, TJ Houshmandzadeh, Hines Ward, Donald Driver, Lee Evans, Terrell Owens and Deion Branch. That would be very generous given the fact that each of those players had accomplished more and proven their worth more than Sidney has to date.

As for your example of an expensive LB, you used the best MLB in the game. MLBs are considered to be worth more than OLBs. If Greenway is really as good as, say, Leroy Hill of the Seahawks, then he is due about $5M/yr, about half of your estimate.

Total: About $19-20M/yr to sign all 3 to contracts they may not even fully deserve (again, with the possible exception of AP). Losing Favre’s $12M salary and Farwell’s $4.5 cap hit almost pay for all 3 deals in full immediately (I’m assuming you mean that these players should be re-signed after the 2010 season), and there is still cap room that could be used plus a few other big contracts expiring over the course of those new contracts (Pat Williams, BB, Madieu, Leber, Kleinsasser).

4) Speaking of cap room, the Vikes were the 22nd payroll and were more than $37M under the highest payroll in the NFL. The sky is not falling at all.

5) With this uncapped year, some of the salaries are purposefully warped.

Here is what I would do …

1. Sign AP to a new deal prior to this season for 5 years and 42.5 mil with a 10 mil signing bonus and 5 mil for 2010 & 2011, 6 mil for 2012, 7 mil for 2013, & 9.5 mil for 2014. I would include some bonuses for leading the league in rushing and pro bowl appearances that would amount to about 1 mil per year which could push the total to 47.5 mil. I also back loaded the deal to be able to release him if he starts to lose some of his explosiveness (or trade him). AP is due 6.4 this year & 7.72 next year so we are safe with the 30% rule.

2. Sign Sidney Rice to a new deal prior to this year for 2 years and 8 mil with a 7 mil signing bonus and salaries of 500k for 2010 & 2011.

3. Sign Chad Greenway to a new deal prior to this year for 2 years and 9 mil with a 7 mil signing bonus and salaries of 1 mil for 2010 & 2011.

Rice & Greenway are given raises based on the 30% rule and they get another year to show they are worth top dollar. Rice needs another year similar to this past one to get Roddy White money and Greenway will need to make the Pro Bowl to get top LB money. But he should get at least 75% of top LB money which would be about 7 mil per year.

So by giving them money prior to a new CBA and with the 30% rule limiting the front office in what they can give as annual salaries this shows them some love and also gets them for the 2011 season at a discounted rate.

Here is the trade I would do now.

4. Trade Bryrant McKinnie and our 2011 2nd round pick and a conditional 2012 2nd or 3rd pick plus Eric Frampton (if they wanted him) for Marcus McNeil.

Sign McNeil to a 2 year 14 mil deal with a 12.5 mil signing bonus and salaries of 689K mil in 2010, & 896k in 2011. Because of the 30% rule he can only make those salaries in 2010 & 2011.
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As KC said, Rice & Greenway are not at the top of their positions yet. and as you have said LL, they may not accept less now. But that is there choice and they could get injured now or there could be a lockout so at least they are getting some money. Maybe that is why the teams do not want to do it? It is a risk but worth it if you can pay your players fairly while still determining if they are worth a huge deal.

Only AP is worth it right now. In my scenario, McNeil may be overpaid.

Anyway there are ways to give them decent deals now thereby saving some money on 2011 and then allowing them to prove it again to get that next deal. The Vikings will know that they have to redo these deals during he 2011 season or risk losing them in free agency.

It can be done except the trade. It all depends on Wilf’s pocketbook.

I only have one issue with this… The salary cap.

Whether the owners decide that a top talent is worth $10M, or $20M, the end result is the same; that money comes out of the pockets of every other member of the team.

It’s one set, limited pool of money going out to the players, so while the value of the top players increases, the value of everyone else on the team, decreases.

Sure, it’s the system, it’s how it works, I know… but imagine yourself in this situation; you’re on an average team that struggles to reach .500 on the season, but you’re making good beans. Suddenly the team brings in a Brandon Marshall, and YOUR paycheck takes a hit in the next contract negotiation. Not because you didn’t play well, not because you aren’t a 1st stringer at your position. Just because of the salary cap.

Yes, I know that the cap keeps the salaries from spiralling out of control in a bidding war, but this cost-control hasn’t kept the price of tickets down, has it? No, the cost of tickets has sky-rocketed and it’s only resulted in more money in the franchise owner’s pockets. I’m pointing this out not as some Socialist rant but to make clear that the salary cap doesn’t help the fans, nor does it help the players. It’s a tool that the owners use to maximize their profits, and while I don’t disagree with it (any more than I’d disagree with any other financial tool that an investor uses to maximize their profits), I’m not going to be a cheerleader in support of the owners making more money at the expense of the players and fans, either.

My post was concerning the recent high salaries that have gone to top rated players and that we have three high rated players.

You seemingly agreed and said:

If we can 30Million /year for 6 years (between the three) ? We’ll be doing good .

Then inexplicably you changed the subject and said:

If we sign big extensions for Tahi , Leber and others we can use them as trade value if we draft successfully next year . R.Cook,JacksonG.LewisEvans,Montgomery,Farwell,Frampton all hold value and could become trade value .

I then simply stated the obvious.

You want to sign extensions with players ( all of which will include signing bonus’s) and then dump the players for others? That puts the entire signing bonus against the cap, if there is a cap.

Also you think our 2nd stringers are tradeable assets even though we signed most of them as one year free agents?

Now you wish to talk trades without even having the courtesy to list what trade you have conceived.
Let me make a suggestion. If you want to create a whole new line of discussion that is fine, but why not do it in a new fanpost where you can lay out your ideas and concepts?

That way your thoughts that flow with your thread can be laid out for everyone to respond? I would appreciate it if you could try and stay on subject. It really makes for a better Daily Norseman site when everyone posts responsibly