The Favre-Effect: A training camp story
by Frost on Aug 10, 2010 9:44 AM CDT
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PrintSo, here I go
Okay, so, I'm one of those guys who think Peterson's parade-over-minicamp situation WAS more about his contract than anything. And I feel validated in that assumption since he's basically come out since and said 'Oh, yeah, I'd take a new contract, sure,' just because he knew months in advance when the Parade was and when MC started, and didn't say anything to coaches.
Anyways, to get to the point here... Last year, Favre didn't come into camp until after 2-a-days, basically in time for preseason games. What was the result? A little rust for the first few games of the season, and then his best career year statistically and one play from the SB.
This year's TC? We're seeing alot of absences from key offensive players. Now, they aren't rookies, which means they were here last season, which is making me wonder if maybe, just maybe, they saw Favre have such a good season after basically skipping out on camp, and so they figure they don't need to be going through all the rigors of it either. I'm sure there are contract disputes that play into this as well, like in Peterson's and possibly RIce's case, that make certain injuries last longer than they normally would, but I can't help but shake the thought that, even though players have said Favre deserves special treatment and a camp exemption, they feel they also deserve it/can get away with it since he basically skipped camp and had an amazing year.
Or maybe I'm just paranoid and putting too much thought into this.
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Camp
Personally I would go to camp no matter what let your agent deal with the contract. Isn’t that what you give him half your salary for? If your worth a shit they’ll pay you. As a Viking fan I’d much rather see Favre in camp if he wants special treatment he can get it in camp. He doesn’t need to work his body into the ground but it would help the young guy’s work out the kinks. He’d probably wouldn’t get hit as much if the OL had some time learning/getting the feel of how he likes to move around the pocket. To these guy’s camp is like work nobody likes to go to work. BUT!!! What they need to remember is they have the GREATEST F’n JOB IN THE WORLD!!!
Couldn't agree with you more.
Brett being in camp last season learning his teammates tendencies and them learning his could’ve been the difference in getting us home field advantage and an appearance in the SuperBowl rather than a tough loss in the NFCCG.
Favre
I’m sure he’s thinking money right now he’d be an idoit if he wasn’t also in his defense he really wouldn’t be doing anything in camp right now anyhow. I mean would the Vikings give him a physical NO! Would they want him working out two-a-days NO! So basically he’d be showing up at about 10:30 everyday with coffee he’s not missing much. They will be starting serious drills with the 1st unit soon and he should be there. There’s a preseason game this weekend but he wouldn’t play anyhow. I’ll be happy when he makes his “Grand Entrance” in a couple weeks and sets the press reeling!!! After all that’s his plan ya know ;)
by Phat Cowboy on Aug 10, 2010 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Brett should be throwing to the receivers he'll be playing with this year IMO
and if in his spare time he wants to help out at the high school down in MS than that is very admirable taking time out of his day to work with the youngsters.
I was thinking about it one day....
And it actually really really bothered me, how these reporters were basically hounding and harassing him during that retirement scare.
All I was thinking was…. “Here Brett is doing a great service to these young kids in Hattisburg Mississippi, and he finishes up and here are a bunch of people to hound him and ask questions…..”
Reporters… Maybe sometimes…. They’re just soulless.
they're like leeches
Seriously, Brett Favre couldn’t even get into his truck without having to wade through reporters. He probably had to answer some of their questions just to get them to move out of his way so he could drive off.
The English language was carefully, carefully cobbled together by three blind dudes and a German dictionary.
- Dave Kellett
Brett being in camp last season learning his teammates tendencies and them learning his could’ve been the difference in getting us home field advantage and an appearance in the SuperBowl rather than a tough loss in the NFCCG
While I think in the general case this may be true, I think in the specific case of what happened last year, it would be very hard for you to back up this statement. The team started 6-0, then 10-1. That first loss (Steelers) had nothing to do with “not knowing tendencies” or whatever you care to call it. And it seems like finishing 3-4 after starting 10-1 is an argument for not wearing yourself out too early, the exact opposite of your pont.
Last year they started Brown’s, Lions, 49er’s (A little lucky), Packers, Rams, Ravens (Barely), Steelers (loss), Packers, Lions, Seahawks, Bears. Thers your 10-1 And those games between all the fumbled handoffs and bad timing in the passing game were a lot closer than they shoud’ve been. The second half we played better teams we had injuries and they figured out we had no defensive secondary.
by Phat Cowboy on Aug 10, 2010 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
The guy said we would have had home field advantage if he’d been in camp. Homefield advantage is based upon wins. Those 10 wins count to HFA whether we won by 1 or 50. Getting #2 instead of #1 seed had NOTHING to do with when favre arrived in camp. Neither does the blame you made in your post have anything to do with Favre being in camp.
You’re actually agreeing with me, I think, not disagreeing.
I’m just saying they had a easy schedule last year and they made it harder than it should’ve been. I attribute that to lack of practice. Young recievers, young OL, a lot of new faces last year. They just didn’t look like they were on the same page most of the year. They spent the first half working out the kinks. Practice in preseaon would have made it a lot easier. Favre surely would have took less punishment had they been able to put teams away easier/quicker and started running the ball more to close games. That alone would have changed the second half and probably got them a better seed in turn home field and a bye into the playoffs. They could have been in a better position to win the NFCCG. Of course this sounds like a lot of what ifs but when you think about it nobody works harder off the field than Peyton and Brees and they’re the ones who got to play in the big.
For everyone including, but not limited to Brett Favre.
Had to throw that in there before some of you jump on me.
Well Favre is a special case....
It may appear that Favre was a little rusty at first, but he was also on a team team. Yes, the WCO playbook was probably something he could run in his sleep, but all the players were new to him. Look at how Favre & Bernard didn’t really start connecting til the later part of the season. Bernard had one of his best days when we did the NFCCG. The ham-string injury really put a set-back on Bernard. He was not able to connect w/ Favre very well. I do re-call a few early dropped passes, so Favre may have lost faith in his reliability.
Harvin – a close family member death is hard.. Some people maybe take it to heart a little bit harder. It may be hard for a guy like Harvin to get his mind into practice at the moment. Hopefully he’s still not slacking & sitting out.
AP – The tightness could be there, but whenever a vet sits out, a back-up gets more reps…. AP may feel like he is the best, but what if TG has a break-out season? He could step right over AP and AP would be wishing he worked a little harder (Not likely, but not impossible).
Some players I respect…. A guy like Pat Williams, he’s old, he’s big, and he just wants to win it all….. He’s obvioulsy aged, still doing his 2-a-days even after contemplating retirement. Hopefully we don’t gas him out too much, but he was 15 lbs supposedly lighter this year in comparisson to last. Some ppl didn’t see much of a difference, but K. Williams thought he looked good. Not to mention he was putting some hefty hits on TG.
I think our defense is stepping up a little bit this year. They realize they are somewhat of a weaker link. I think the offense maybe needing to keep up their hard-work, because they must think they’re to good.
It’ll be interesting to see what happens w/ Rice…. Will he be on the Pup-list?
Will Toby make it to 2nd on the depth chart?
Will the mood of the team do a 180 once Favre arrives?
it’ll be awhile b4 we all find out.
I think it's a legit argument
I agree that Favre is a very unique case, but I also think some players may be quietly saying “well if he isn’t playing I won’t either”. Impossible to prove, but definitely interesting to consider.
Proud contributor to Daily Norseman and SB Nation Minnesota
by Eric J. Thompson on Aug 10, 2010 1:57 PM CDT reply actions
Possibly....
But….. Who are we really singling out?
Harvin?? — He had a death in the family followed up by Migraines… Could potentially be just that they flared up from the stress of his gradma’s death. I’d rather it happen now than in the regular season… — I recall it happening about 3 times, and only accounting for 1 missed game (Bengals?) and he played during the Cardinal games, but it seemed as if he was more of a decoy that night. He had a bad migraine again prior to the NFCCG game, but he played in that game and I think did alright.
AP?? — He had tightness in his leg….. We are talking a lot hot weather… And the last thing we would want is our #1 RB damaging themselves by pulling a muscle. I believe he is just limited practice, but is doing drills.
Where we see a fall-back, I see a postiive…..
*T-Jack is getting more than usual reps considering Favre has not came to MN yet.
*Toby Gerhart & Albert Young are getting lots of practice as well… And as they should, they need to find out who will fit the 3rd down back role and so forth.
***Harvin/Rice gone means more time to find the better of the remaining receivers. I think this is important since Rice may be an issue early w/ his hip and Harvin could miss a game here/there.
Therefore, I believe, we can give our depth more practice to do a better job of evaluating them.
It’s only only the 1st week right now. Find a team that doesn’t have major starters missing from camp it’s the same thing every year for every team. 1st week is for beating on the rookies. HaHa!!! Whether it’s money, injuries or “I missed my flight” (T.O.) this is nothing new in the NFL. This is a good young team they’ll all check in in the next week or so.
Yup
No reason for vets to have a training camp injury that puts them out of the regular season.
No need to have someone like Bernard pull a ham-string and not become effective until later, only to repull that muscle again and have an even later bloom.
A weird perspective and a comment on Harvin .
Jay Glazer’s report of a possible 20 Million for #4 . Could be a great smoke screen used by the front office to get players to focus less on what Ziggy can spend . And camp duties .
I was hoping that all Percy’s plane rides triggered the migraines . 30+ in two weeks leading up to the draft . The death obviously effected him . He is a multi-role player that needs camp time . It will hurt his #’s of carries in New Orleans IMO.
stress
His headaches seem linked to stress. He’s stressed about the tragic loss of his grandmother, and he probably gets stressed about missing practice and so on in a vicious circle.
by medicineball on Aug 10, 2010 11:38 PM CDT up reply actions
starting to agree...
Favre…. Peterson…. Rice ….. Harvin ….. some offensive linemen miss practice.
What the heck?
seriously..
its called one of the hottest summers in quite a while. It’s called players actually being dinged up. It’s called being one of the oldest teams in the league. Get over the “they wanna be like Favre” bit. Why oh why are people worried about “OMG we really should have Favre in here so he can get in sync”. How many times did he throw to Lewis before the San Fran game?? Fact is, he knows the tendencies of the players probably better than most people do. And as someone mentioned, look at how many reps T-Jack and Sage are getting. If Favre was in camp, those reps would drop drastically. Who needs the reps more???? And Peterson would skip for contract reasons even if Favre wasn’t on the Vikings roster. Maybe he is being like Johnson or Revis? Wasn’t it not to long ago that people were ready to jump off the bridge because Favre wasn’t coming back and now people want to blame everything on Favre? You can’t have it both ways. You knew what you were getting.
by SeanInEauClaireWi on Aug 11, 2010 8:52 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
lol Oh, sorry, you're totally right
They did good last year, so they definitely don’t need to be bothering trying to get better THIS year, because they’re good enough to make it to the NFC CG. Let everyone catch up to them. Mmmkay.
Who needs the reps more? The starting players. You know, the ones who are going to be getting the majority of playing time. Right now, alot of the starting players are missing out on camp-reps. If you aren’t worried when that happens, then you are ridiculously optimistic.
In regards to Peterson, sure, he might skip out even if there was no Favre. But I’m arguing that since Favre skipped out and came in and did well, Peterson could be thinking the same thing for him; He can skip out, try to get a better contract, and STILL do well in the regular season. You may not believe the players are thinking like that, but fact of the matter is EVERYONE does.
If you’re at work and somebody is slacking off and not getting their ass chewed, you’re gonna start considering slacking off yourself. It happens. And I’m not blaming Favre. I’m blaming players who haven’t been in the league even a quarter as long as Favre taking reps/days off of Camp because they think they’ll be okay come the regular season because Favre did. That’s on the players. Favre isn’t in their ear whispering ‘Yeah, just take the day off. I did it, and it turned out okay.’
Monkey See, Monkey Do
The same thought’s occurred to me, Frost, but I hope it’s misplaced. I also suspect that Peterson’s angling for a new contract and more money, his comments made it clear that it’s on his mind, but he recognizes the need to get his TC time in, too.
Remember our earlier debate on whether or not we think the NFL season should be longer? Pros and cons, the biggest one against was the wear and tear on the players. I think that’s a pretty salient point and as players get older, that wear and tear has to be more impactual. Would Favre have had as good a season if there were 2 or 3 more games tacked onto the end of it? That would be the net effect if he had come to training camp and played through the pre-season. And how much impact does it have on the younger guys? They may be playing at a more skilled level towards the end of the season but are they playing at the same energy and strength they have at the beginning? Are we really looking at an endurance game, through the season?
I’m bringing this up because it’s occurred me to wonder, what if some the Vikings players are thinking about this? What if they’re thinking that Favre benefited by minimizing the wear-and-tear in the TC and pre-season, and that maybe that’s not such a bad idea?
Either way, it definitely suggests that, as much as Favre might deserve the right to skip training camp, it sets a very bad precedent for the rest of the team and the NFL in general.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
On second thought
Undermining was probably a poor choice of words since Chili gave Brett the OK to miss camp, but some players may feel Chili is showing some favoritism towards certain players and although they may not want to come out saying it publicly I’m sure some feel that way. It does set a bad precedent, but obviously Chili doesn’t care.
Yeah, if you recall I had a conspiratorial attitude towards AP missing OTAs due to his parade, i posted here I thought it might be all a charade between them, for chilli to make clear that no one else gets treatment that BF does, not even AP (and if not AP or JA, then no one). To cut off anyone else before they even think to try it. Remember, Chilli is a psych major. But that scenario required AP to reschedule his parade & show up after Chilli told him to, which didn’t happen. Oh well. One can hope :(
Have to disagree with Frost on this one.
The Vikings have all of the starters returning. These are the same players that are familiar with the coaches expectations and rules. This team is working during training camp. Players are playing hard. Every single team in the NFL is having injuries including the Vikings. It doesn’t matter what the temperature is or if other players are having contract issues. I am much more concerned that Frost is lost somewhere in Dallas looking for the shooter that escaped the grassy knoll, than whether these players will play hard for coach Childress.
But hey, that’s just me looking at it realistically. When the team mutiny’s I will come over to the Dark side.
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
lol I'm not saying there's going to be a mutiny
Of course the players will play hard for Childress. Come the regular season.
I’m just saying that, this year, it seems like there’s alot of those same key starters from last year missing alot of time. We haven’t had that happen in the last few years, so for it to occur suddenly after Favre’s antics last year make it look suspicious. That’s just MY realistic look at it.
I understand your theory
But if you are correct then the players did not learn how hard work in training camp pays off. They do not buy into what the coaches are telling them everyday. If you are right they do not want to win.
It is much easier for me to believe that they are injured or are being protected by the coaches from further injury. To me that is much easier to believe.
If we can get to Saturday I think all of our stewing about unimportant trivia won’t matter.
BTW. How was your trip to Dallas? :)
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
by lifelongvike on Aug 11, 2010 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Hot, very hot
And they really need to trim the grass on that knoll
LOLOL!!!!
Did you take the walk to the school house depository too?
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
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