About Last Night: Vikings/Rams Thoughts
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The first pre-season game is in the books, and overall the Minnesota Vikings looked pretty good against the St. Louis Rams. Yes, I know, say it along with me. . .it was only the Rams. . .but this is pre-season, and the talent on each sideline isn't always reflected in the final score. However, for a Vikings team that went into the Edward Jones down without Brett Favre, Adrian Peterson, Sidney Rice, Percy Harvin, and Visanthe Shiancoe. . .or, if you prefer, Pro Bowler, Pro Bowler, Pro Bowler, Pro Bowler, and more TD catches than any TE in football over the last two years. . .things went almost as well as could be expected.
So, what were some of the things that we learned last night? Let's have a look.
The Minnesota Vikings are ridiculously deep along the defensive line - Take a look at the defensive linemen on our roster right now. Not just the starting front four, but the guys that are behind them. Right now, the #2 and #3 guys on the Vikings' defensive line depth chart are guys like Brian Robison, Jimmy Kennedy, Fred Evans, Letroy Guion, Everson Griffen, and Jayme Mitchell. And depending on how the depth chart shakes out, at least one of those guys. . .and possibly two. . .aren't going to make the final cut for this team. There are probably quite a few teams that those players could go to and make an impact, but in Minnesota there just isn't going to be room for them.
Guion, Evans, and Mitchell, in my opinion, are playing for roster spots. At least one of them will stay, maybe two. And the one (or two) that get cut will probably immediately sign with other teams and be no worse than solid rotation players, and perhaps more. I've touted Karl Dunbar as the best defensive line coach in the NFL in this space for some time, and the job he's done with guys like Robison, Kennedy, and Ray Edwards really speaks to that, in my opinion.
Brad Childress' confidence in Tarvaris Jackson is borderline ridiculous - Yes, I get that you don't want people to have a ton of film on T-Jack or something. And I get that you don't want anything to happen to him in the event that Brett Favre doesn't return. And I know that exactly none of the skill position starters, save Bernard Berrian (if we count him as a starter), played on Saturday night.
But, seriously, dude needs more than one series of work in the first pre-season game of the year. Particularly if circumstances at some point dictate that he is going to be "the guy" behind center this season.
Jackson went 2-for-4 for 11 yards for the Vikings against the Rams for the one drive he was in.
The run blocking needs to get better, and it needs to get there in a hurry - Granted, we had a lot of top-shelf guys that didn't play on the O-line for more than a series, but for the better part of the evening the run blocking was atrocious. Viking rushers carried the ball 31 times on Saturday night, and gained a total of 78 yards (2.6 yards/carry). Take out Joe Webb's 3 scrambles for 24 yards, and that goes down to 54 yards on 28 carries (1.9 yards/carry). Albert Young, who started at running back in place of Adrian Peterson carried six times, and amassed a total of -7 yards (that's minus-7, which means the average Young carry moved us a yard in the wrong direction). Toby Gerhart led the Vikings in rushing with 24 yards, but it took him eight carries to get there.
Regardless of who is quarterbacking this team this season, the running game absolutely has to be better than this. Hopefully, as we get closer to the start of the season, it will get better. . .I'm not sure if it can get much worse than 1.9 yards/carry, but I've been shocked before.
The battle at the bottom of the wide receiver depth chart is going to be interesting - In my opinion, only three wide receivers are mortal locks to make this roster. . .Rice, Harvin, and Berrian. Mike Mayock said last night that he thought Greg Lewis was pretty much a shoo-in, too, and hey. . .who am I to question that guy? So, if you figure those four guys are in, the battle for the fifth WR spot is shaping up to be an interesting one. Jaymar Johnson, from some accounts, appears to be the favorite right now, but a guy that asserted himself fairly well last night and could be making a strong case for himself is former Gopher standout Logan Payne. Payne led the Vikings in receptions last night with seven, good for 52 yards and a two-yard touchdown catch in the second quarter of play. If Payne can make a significant contribution on special teams, he and Jaymar should have an interesting battle for the last wide receiver spot on the big club.
And that's what I saw last night. . .what did you folks see? Discuss it all below, and enjoy the rest of your Sunday, ladies and gentlemen.
Oh. . .damn, is it great to have football back or what?
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Logan Payne, future practice squad member
Jaymar Johnson has worked hard and is no longer practice squad eligible. Payne is, I believe. He and Small or Mitchell will be on the PS.
if...
…we totally ignore the fact that even the dumbest NFL coaching staff (not revealing my personal prejudices here or attempting to insult them in any way) knows that the Vikings are currently crawling with talent and that that team will be watching all those whom the Vikings try to get past waivers soon with whatever electron microscope it is their lowly franchise can fit into their budget.
Um
But, seriously, dude needs more than one series of work in the first pre-season game of the year. Particularly if circumstances at some point dictate that he is going to be “the guy” behind center this season.
After the first series, the only player that stayed in the game was the center. I know we’d like to see Jackson for our own peace of mind, but the time our starters were on the field is pretty standard. I don’t expect Childress to change his plan to satisfy the fans.
Expect the starters to play 3 series or a quarter next week, and the first half in week 3, then largely get sat down in game 4. That’s just how this team has pretty much always operated under Childress.
Problem is
TJ isn’t our starter. Well he could be but that would pretty much be a disaster.
Actually, I for one was fairly impressed with Sage last night. He did a good job on his check downs, looked off a couple of line backers to help make plays and seemed fairly confident in the pocket. Just needs to make a few more of those passes.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
How are you so confident to say it'd be a disaster
if he was starter? Honestly. What are you basing that off? His past games? I’ll admit he’s had some shakey games. But then again, Sage has had worse. Or are you basing it off his amazing all-of-4-attempts statline from Saturday? I don’t understand what makes you so sure about Sage, and yet so hesitant about Jackson. I mean, the word outta camp was that Jackson looked better with the firsts, not Sage.
Either way, if what I heard about the Vikes calling up Garcia is true, then neither one are really what the team’s looking for anyway. But I think I’d be more comfortable starting Jackson over Rosenfels.
I couldn't tell you which would be best
I havn’t seen them play enough. I’m basing disaster off of a third round tender given to Jackson and a bunch of people reporting that Sage isn’t doing well in camp. If Sage was kicking butt and TJ beat him out that woudl make me feel a bit better. However, right now the only thing that will make me feel better is if TJ starts to win actual games. I’ve seen him be a super star in some of his preseason debuts.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Garcia?
I wanted him back in 08’.
I thought he would have brought more to the table than Frerotte did. I don’t know if I would want him now though, what are your thoughts?
i too wanted him in 2008, i was pissed they didn't do it.
it’s kinda tough now, plus i heard chilly shoot down the rumor, so who knows what’s up.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
My thoughts.
The offense had a shaky start, but it was nice to see Rosenfels work through it.
I would have liked to see Jackson for another series, but I guess we’ll have to wait til next wk……Percy is supposed to report to Winter Park by Monday, so maybe we’ll see him next week too.
As you said, the O-Line was weak, especially run blocking. AP wouldn’t have done any better than A.Young did.
They gotta make bigger holes and running lanes than they did last night. I wasn’t impressed with the pass protection neither….They need lots more improvement. I wouldn’t blame Favre at all if he so NO after watching that. :)
There isn’t much room for another WR, but Payne made a name for himself last night, as did Mitchell. I doubt either will make the team, but at least the competition is there.
The D looked Great. The funny thing is, we mostly only seen the back ups, and they kicked but all night.
M.Williams had a good performance, but he’s gotta make that INT next time.
ST’s coughed up another TD. I’m not real surprised by that considering they’ve led the league in coughing up TD’s for the last 3yrs.
Practice, man, practice...
…as the knowledgeable jazz man advised the bewildered tourist on how to get to 881 Seventh Avenue in Manhattan.
If the blocker does’t get his technique down, he will not only not open the hole in the right place as described in the playbook, but when the runner adlibs to the place which is accidentally open, the zebra’s will be announcing said blocker’s jersey number to the crowd on the subsequent holding call, since the opposition does not need mirrors on their helmets to see where the runner is actually going.
On the other hand, I felt the pass blocking was somewhat above par. You don’t get a chance to enter the launch codes for those two TD bombs if it were not, but then I’m not suggesting by that that anyone rest on their laurels. Just because you are paranoid does not mean people are not out to get you.
Not quite paranoid........(yet)
Just a little concerned.
The Pass Protection wasn’t all that bad, but the QB was definitely hurried a lot. Mostly from the right side. much like last year.
Thus creating a lot of check-downs, and ultimately a lot of 3rd&long situations.
With that said, It’s still early, with lots of practice in sight. :)
SKOL!
I did see Young do a pretty solid job pass blocking for Sage
Was impressed by that as well I say Gerhart pick up a blitz as well as go out and pick up a nice pass. Not ready to state they can fill Chester’s shoes just yet, but it does look like we have at least onen solid pass blocking back.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Agreed .
They should have allowed him to find a rythem . Then I will take Brad’s decision over GB’s . Three balls apiece to the starters and Aaron stayed in too long and took to many shots . IMO they are tired of losing at Lambeau and wanted to recover for their 0-14 start . And what did it prove . In the end ??
by gothicpurple on Aug 15, 2010 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn't see the Packers game,
but leaving Rodgers in for more than 1 or 2 series would be a mistake, especially if he’s getting hit.
He was in for three series
Well technically four (the first one was all of one play which was a hand off to Grant which was fumbled).
He wasn’t sack and really wasn’t touched.
McCarthy also said he planned to play the starters 20 plays. Which he did. Then the back ups came in. Not as big of a deal as GP is making it out to be.
by PackApologist on Aug 15, 2010 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Although why there is talk about the Packers in this thread is beyond me.
by PackApologist on Aug 15, 2010 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Because last year you guys were the Pre-season NFL Champs
And this year you lost to the Browns in Lambeau, and some people aren’t taking that with a grain of salt and are running with it. Why? I don’t know. But they are.
Because they are going to win the Super Bowl this year.
Come on! I thought everybody knew that?
McCarthy also said he planned to play the starters 20 plays. Which he did. Then the back ups came in. Not as big of a deal as GP is making it out to be.
He has a habit of doing that..
by packallday555 on Aug 18, 2010 12:31 AM CDT up reply actions
good points, mr. moderator guy.
remember, it was only the first pre-season game against weak competition.
i’d think san francisco will be a much better test on both sides of the ball next week.
i also think t-jack will get extended playing time next week in place of sage.
i hope to see more of joe webb next week too, that was fun to watch.
personally, i like jaymar johnson and greg lewis for the other wr roster slots.
logan payne caught more balls, but i think jaymar’s catches showed better
natural athleticism and were pretty impressive.
i want to see more of reynaud too, he looked good on that sweep that got penalized.
no injuries? if so, that’s good news.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
what i want to see
is more of Webb. He defintley has the athletic ability(overuse of those words). He looked to have some good accuracy, but there were a couple of instances where he showed some bad decision making. One in particular was a deep pass down field. He had a wr open, but he shorted it by a little. Give him time to develop(oh no).
Actually that decision was great, the pass just wasn't accurate
Like you said, he had a WR wide open.
Passes only work when the guys on either end of the rainbow are both on the same page, but I can see why Mr. Webb was not cast in the role of a wide receiver in this little traveling show.
With regard to roster depth and playing cards, bluffing is sometimes great in poker, but being dealt a royal straight flush can be even more fun. In football, people get hurt, and it is usually disheartening to an opposing defender to see yet another ringer equipped with some fresh oxygen coming off your bench when that stretcher departs.
I hope I have made all my mixed metaphors perfectly clear on this point: Despite things you may hear on Twitter and elsewhere, now is not the time for us to fear. This is time for our opponents to fear, or face the consequences of their pitiful ignorance.
I'll be honest...
fella’s it was looking great, but I coulda used a little more cowbell… JOE WEBB
Joe Webb
Is it just me, or did Joe Webb look great last night? I know he was playing against 3rd string guys but you could tell that he was the best athlete on the field at that time.. and he even looked accurate throwing the ball. What do u guys think?
Think you need to temper your enthusiasm
Jackson looked amazing his rookie pre-season too.
I never thought I would see “Jackson” and “looked amazing” used together in the same sentence.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
He always looks good in the preseason.
I think much of his problem is an inability to deal with presure.
Hell there would be a crap ton of it out there.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Rewind it back to his rookie pre-season
and you’ll see it alot. Which is my point. Pre-season isn’t shit. Look at Colt Brennan. 158.3 rating his first pre-season game. Made all the right throws, the right reads. Where is he now, a couple years later? Out of the NFL.
It isn't just you, but...
The only part of Webb’s game that really impressed me was his touch. I remember T Jack looked great early on in preseason but it was his laser arm and mobility on everything. Webb had a nice soft TD pass and a nice screen and maybe one or two more. His mobility is certainly top notch and in college he ran like a running back so he’s probably pretty durable, but we kind of already knew that.
What I’d have to see from Webb to really get excited would be more posts or deep outs. I need to see his ability to hurt teams over the top with his arm because if he ever started you know damn well they’d load the box and try to get all up in his bitness.
Learning from the mistakes of others and then teaching a course yourself
I was well pleased to see Chris Cook school Danny Amendola on this particular proverbial lesson: If you truly like appearing in punt return highlight clips, we can always arrange for you to appear in one in which we knock that stinking football out of your hands and don’t really care any more about how fast you can actually run.
(It’s not only a certain #28 in this league who is vulnerable to robbery.)
Love the football, even if it is preseason.
Much as I think I would have been a happier camper if I could have seen the first-string players play last night, it was surprisingly encouraging to see that the Vikings have attracted and coached so much talent that even the second- and third-string players were bringing some very respectable pain. There was so much talent that it is going to make me cringe when they start cutting down the roster.
The English language was carefully, carefully cobbled together by three blind dudes and a German dictionary.
- Dave Kellett
I hear that
The defensive line looked tremendous. I know they were playing against second string but hell they are our second string! Rams aren’t the toughest team around but the line treated them with a level of disdain and continuously made their QB look like a terrified rabbit in their back field. I’m suprised the Rams coach didn’t send a message to Chilly asking him to slow the pass rush down so he could look at some of his back ups….
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
He did look at some backups
And saw that they would crap their pants in pressured situations. Which is why, for now, they’ll remain back ups. We helped him out more than hindered him :)
i also forgot...
who the hell will be starting at corner! It seems like there is a lot of talent and a lot of depth at the corner this year for us. And again, like mike mayok said, it’s all about the special teams. Cook looked great on returns and at corner. Allen was looking good at corner, but it seemed like he was making some bad choices on punt returns. Didn’t get to see to much of lito, and same goes with sapp. Wow, this is really exciting. And another little comment, there has been a lot said about the age of our team. And it seems like a lot of that is fading away. antoine is getting old, but it looks like he will have enough replacements, assuming we keep the guys that long. And as for Phat Pat, you cant replace him, but we have the next best thing behind him on the depth chart. And next year, we can address our line. I keep hearing that the packers are built for the future, because they are such a young team. But it seems to me like we aren’t just a bunch of old geezers in wheelchairs going out for our last hurrah. Man, that was a lot.
Honestly,
I’ve given a lot of thought to the CB situation and my professional analysis is… Its a shitstorm. Too many bodies, not enough rising talent. But I suppose that, based on Frazier’s depth-charting and Sats game, it looks like it’ll be Winfield, followed by possibly Cook, with Allen being Nickle, and then Cook/Allen being knocked down a step once Griffin returns, unless Cook is just killing it. Which would be acceptable.
Or they could put it Winfield/Allen, take Allen off STs, and tell Cook he’ll still be getting playing time even though he’s the DimeBack since he’ll be on ST still. There’s just too many scenarios, I could go into probably a dozen more, and there’d still be like 5 left to cover.
Logan Payne
I liked a lot of what I saw from him, though since he is a former Gopher I am a little bias, but if he expects to make the team he needs to work on his hands. He let too many passes slip through his hands that any other starting WR in the league would have held onto.
It may be more a case of Sage proving he can light it up downfield .
by gothicpurple on Aug 15, 2010 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Sage lighting it up against the Rams' second and third string defense...
Im not sure if that proves anything
Hand and YAC
He went after the ball (which I like) but sometimes his body was in a bad position after the catch to make more yardage. Not sure if that was Sage’s fault or Paynes.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
One down and nineteen to go !!!!
DL : Guion’s excelleration may send Evans packing . Mitchell may nose out Montgomery in the end too .
QB : Many seem to get personal on this choice . Last year Sage got big minutes in the first game . As TJ got extended minutes in game two . Did you see Cutler’s footwork in his two throws ? I would like to see that in Webb in game four .
OL : It is a compliment to credit run blocking with the #1 Center not at the game . We don’t yet have the swing man to handle LT in a pinch . Can DeGeare be that guy ? 60-40 % yes IMO at this point . It is still early .
RB : Several teams focused on pass only schemes . I felt that AY wasn’t going to be the #2 for long . REynaud had a lot of outside runs that were called back . We knew they would get the WR’s out there . And they had 14 guys catch .
Logan Payne spent a lot of personal time with Sage . Will Brad give him time with TJ ? Several caught well last year . Average special teams play sent them packing . Lewis will stay to mentor the West Coast playbook .
Will we lose a RB like AY to add a DL man ? What are we going to do about that special teams play ? I wouldn’t believe that St. Louis would be a good matchup . The coaches did a great job evaluating talent in this one .
—-GB had their early meltdown . And CB play wasn’t what they billed it to be . DET and CHI fell to pieces with lack of depthh again . Sad to say but it’s time to wheel and deal some good talentnear the bottom of our roster ! I didn’t see the game . Only stats on NFL.com so I missed the excitement . S.F. on Sunday will involve the first of many conference champs that we will face . Maybe Coffee’s early retirement will curb some of that Brett talk about when to retire ?
You should have seen it
Our 2nd and 3rd string D line play was something to be amazed with. CB looked solid (against the rams I know) well actually it was kinda like playing a high school team so I’ll with hold some of my judgements until we play someone who wouldn’t get beaten by USC.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Maybe I'm biased, but
Darius Reynaud had some very good runs in the second half. Yes, every one seemed to get called back by a penalty, but he looked better than Albert Young or Toby Gerhart.
Haven’t watched the fourth quarter yet, and when I do I’ll post something more, but Logan Payne and Reynaud stood out, as did Sage. The whole defense looked good, and if this turns out to be the 2000 Ravens redux, I like our chances.
"Whoever said that the pen is mightier than the sword never encountered automatic weapons."
Good take on the game
To me two things stood out.
First and foremost is the run blocking. It is beyond horrible regardless of who is playing. The depth on this offensive line will come back to haunt the Vikings this year unless they find a veteran to come in to go with Cook. DeGeare looks OK but is probably a year or two away from being able to handle top notch DTs in the NFL on a consistent basis. There is a reason he was drafted in the fifth round.
Second and almost as much of a concern is the snaps that TJack had during the game. Many say he does not need them because he gets the snaps in training camp. OK. Fine.
But why does Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, & Carson Palmer all play most of the first quarter (Peyton) and into the second quarter (Rodgers & Palmer)? These guys are clearly better than TJack and they got some work.
Chilly is the coach and can do whatever he wants but IMHO, TJack would be well served to get some action during the preseason. It couldn’t hurt.
It seems that Chilly knows more than many of the other coaches around the league. I wonder if the other guys are telling their coaches they want to play?
I don’t know but put me in the category that says give TJack some snaps!
He'll get snaps
Jackson was probably just held out because the starters were pulled out, because Childress doesn’t want to go through injuries. Call me crazy, but, we’ve been pretty good at avoiding it, this year we seem to have a mild case of the injury bug. Brad’s doing what he can to stave it off.
In regard to the O-Line, I’m not too terribly worried. Honestly, the 2nd and 3rd string O-Line always sucks balls in the pre-season. Ever since I started watching. There’s always going to be pressure. You just kinda let it pass. If they could protect the QB so well, they wouldn’t be on 2nd string.
I am sure he will get some snaps
but it does not matter to me. He has been practicing with these guys all through camp.
And last year we had to rely on the offensive line backups during the regular season.
The ones we have now are not going to get much better in the next 3 weeks IMO.
They were on the practice squad for a reason.
It is a serious concern and we will be Green Bay-esque if we have any injuries.
my take on the qb saga.
sage was showcased in game 1 for window dressing a trade. brett comes back we trade sage t jack number 2 and webb is mr clipboard, then next year webb sits again and if t jack isnt the answer ,then give webb season 3 shot . i know its rams 3rd string but he did well for a rookie on his drive .
My overall observations
Our offensive line was terrible in the run game. But the Rams did load the box heavily and our passing game generally shredded that look. If this were a regular season game most likely the Rams would have taken a more balanced look, or the Vikings would have shredded their one dimensional front.
Joe Webb exhibited some touch in the short passing game. That impressed me. His athletic gifts are great. His delivery seems a touch slow though. I’d like to see more but he might be a guy that won’t clear waivers and may be our #3.
Darius Reynaud looked excellent. Seriously that guy needs to be our #3. He lacks the size to have a ton of carries but he’s a scat back who can run actual WR routes and would be a great change of pace here and there. Put him on the field with a double TE look with Mills and you can go 5 wide or power run out of the same player set. Buh bye Albert Young as far as I’m concerned unless we keep 4.
D line depth is tremendous which has been addressed.
Our o line committed a ton of penalties. There was a special teams gaffe. But for the most part the Vikings were very disciplined in that game. Nice disciplined vanilla game plan. Nice starting point to build from.
Asher Allen was atrocious in special teams. My god he had a bad night. But he had great coverage in a couple plays, albeit against second teamers.
Chris Cook has me excited. Nice looking pick. Full of energy, very athletic. I think this guy is going to be a very good player.
Definately need to see the first teamers together though. No center, TE, WR’s, or star tailback on Tjack’s one possession. Kind of boring actually.
How can we see the first teamers?
None of them are in camp…. Defense needs to go over to offenses side of the playground and shake those sissy’s up. Getting pathetic that none of our pro bowlers on offense are practicing yet.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Forgot to mention that
Toby Gerhart looked EXCELLENT. Seriously for a rookie to carry the ball, run block, and catch passes consistently in his first real action. That has me a bit stoked. He didn’t have many opportunities to pop big plays and his rushing skills are still suspect at this level. But he looks like he could be a nice all around 3rd down back and obviously a short yardage back with that size.
Great to see the vikes back in action!
My thoughts on the game are the run blocking needs work as well as special teams. For RB’s, I thought Gerhart looked fair for a rookie, hopefully he can step it up with more time, Reynaud was great in his runs and I hope he can stick around, he can fill many roles, and Young knows the system,was good at blocking, but I was never impressed with his runs.
Sage
Looked to me that the Vikings were showcasing Sage. If a starting QB goes down somewhere during pre-season, Sages stock goes up as a back-up/starter. Maybe WE can get some help, say at safety or the o-line for him.
If Favre goes down, neither one is gonna be able to replace him and Sage has more trade value than TJ. Might as well get some help now for the Vikings and hope the stud stays standing another season.
I didn't see the game, and preseason games are meaningless.
Sage Rosenfels and Gus Frerotte ranked 1st and 3rd in preseason passer rating in 2007, respectively. Neither should start for a team as talented as the Vikings.
I can’t help but think that the Vikings’ rushing offense should have averaged better than 2.5 yards per carry (3.0 for Gerhart) vs. StL, though.
correction
The Troy Williamson article was from last season. NFL.com’s stats appear to be incomplete.
Cilly's Infatuation with TJack
I just don’t understand what Chilly see’s in TJ. I have waited for him to develop for five seasons and I fail to see any improvement in his game. Against the Rams he should have played at least a whole quarter because he needs the work in games. TJ must be one helluva practice player is all I can say. Sage will probably get traded or waived after the pre season just so there is no controversy . I admit I liked what I saw of Webb and think he might have some upside.

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