Harvin Collapses Due to Migraine, Taken to Hospital
From the "well this isn't good news at all" department...this migraine situation for Percy just got even scarier. Here's to hoping Percy is OK, although a headache that lands you in an ambulance is probably pretty serious. Stay tuned for more.
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Shocking
Looks like he didn’t have “migraine headaches,” like so many opposing fans alleged. . .it turns out that the guy ACTUALLY suffers from migraines.
I hope everyone out there that’s attributed Percy Harvin’s physical maladies to his alleged love for marijuana feels like a real dick right about now.
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by Christopher Gates on Aug 19, 2010 1:44 PM CDT reply actions
Hmmmm...
I allege his alleged marijuana use is probably directly related to his migraines.
…and if it is true that he gets relief from it’s use, then I say he should continue to use it.
In fact, I think he should be granted an exclusion from marijuana testing by the league.
It is a FACT that he has been getting substantial treatment from various sources so it’s not like he’s trying to pull a fast one.
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Aug 19, 2010 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions
That could easily be true
I was thinking more along the lines of the folks that say crap along the lines of, “Well, Harvin has a migraine. . .must be time for another drug test, hyuck, hyuck, hyuck.”
Of course, it’ll never happen. . .the kind of people that make jokes and inferences like that are generally too damn stupid to feel remorse.
SBNation Minnesota - For the greatest sports fans in the world.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on Aug 19, 2010 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Medical Marijuana does provide a benefit from Migrane headaches.
If the medical community recognizes it as a healing agent, how can the NFL say no? It’s not like it is a PED? Some might argue that this would open up a Pandora’s box of “Migraine sufferers” but if he is diagnosed by a legit doctor, how can the NFL not allow him to alleviate his ailment, however his doctor deems fit?
by craig in calgary on Aug 19, 2010 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions
My wife
Suffered from migraines for most of her life, so badly that usually at least once a month she was in the hospital for an iv to help out the situation. She started going to a chiropractor and hasn’t had migraines for the last year and a half.
I assume they have considered that route. Seeing how they debilitated her, i would not wish them on anyone.
If he ever played a game while dealing with them, i give him full props for being a tough bastard.
Football is easy if you're crazy as hell
how can the NFL say no?
Because the Federal government says it’s illegal…??
If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen
true, but...
the Gov’t has also taken a stance on ‘personal’ consumption that supports medical use.
It’s the ‘distribution’ bit they frown on.
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Aug 19, 2010 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think the NFL
Allows for the use of Medicinal Marijuana. If so Ricky Williams would have had been diagnosed with Glaucoma years ago.
Football is easy if you're crazy as hell
So Stupid..
A simple plant can cure him, yet our archaic laws say ’’no’’.
by Jepp The Viking on Aug 19, 2010 2:17 PM CDT reply actions
get better, percy. that's gotta be hard to deal with. wishing you the best.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
i love this kid’s game. he’s a fantastic player. i think he has potential to be a special player for many years, in spite of his undersized height for a wr.
i’ve always wondered how serious his headache issues were, but i guess i’m finding out now. while at florida, i have to say i don’t remember this being reported that often. now that he’s in the nfl, there’s more exposure to him as a player and everything that comes with being an nfl player.
i hope there is a great doctor that can help him with this condition very soon.here’s to hoping that percy harvin, the person is well very soon!
"the man who created a legend; the legend who resurrected a franchise."
medical opinion
I subtly accosted an ER doctor I know and asked him what he thought about this unfortunate turn for Percy Havin. He said that he couldn’t diagnose someone he couldn’t examine. While that is a perfectly reasonable answer, it didn’t give me much to go on. So, after making a nuisance of myself I finally got this out of him—generally, people don’t collapse from migraines unless there is a vascular component. Generally. So, Harvin might have a vascular migraine component that caused the collapse, or it might be something else.
The English language was carefully, carefully cobbled together by three blind dudes and a German dictionary.
- Dave Kellett
i say
get a doctors note, sue the nfl for the right to and smoke away. I had a buddy that literally had to stay in a pitch black room until it went away. It got to the point where he had to get one of those campers bathrooms when he had them just so he didn’t have to go out in the light to vacate.
I piss people off on a fairly regular basis. I cherish my right to speak my mind, whether I sound like an uneducated savage or not. I've never been accused of keeping what I think a secret, nor will I ever. Don't like it? I don't care.
by IABerserker1 on Aug 19, 2010 3:13 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Very troubling
These seem to get worse the older he gets. If these persist, the very deep position of WR suddenly looks fairly weak when you couple this with Sid’s hip.
Hope they both get healthy soon.
"Whoever said that the pen is mightier than the sword never encountered automatic weapons."
A possible solution?
I am not a doctor, and I want to qualify this suggestion from the start. I, too, have had extensive experience with chiropractic over the past twenty years. I would recommend that Percy be examined by an “Atlas Orthogonist.” This is a specialized form of chiropractic treatment. Basically, the atlas bone is the bone at the very top of our spinal columns, directly at the base of the skull. If it is misaligned, potential medical issues can result. The simple reason is that our spinal cords run through the spinal column, and, in order for us to function optimally, proper alignment of the atlas bone is necessary. My family has been treated by an atlas orthogonist off and on for twenty years. My wife used to work for one, and, as a side benefit, our whole family received care. As a specific testimonial, my son, when he was about a year and a half old, fell over and suffered a seizure. In the hospital, he had a second one. All kinds of tests were done, but, nothing was determined. We were told that if he suffered another one within 6 months, he was most likely an epileptic, and would be put on meds. We consulted with our chiropractor. We told him that a week before the first seizure, he had whacked his forehead on a coffee table corner. The chiro said that his atlas was out. He also told us that the hospital would run tests, and find nothing. This is EXACTLY what happened. We checked him out of the hospital. He was listless and quiet. We immediately took him to the chiropractor, who adjusted his atlas, and he immediately got up, started running around, asking for something to eat. He never had another seizure. If there is a way for someone to get this suggestion to PH, it could help. It has to be an "Atlas Orthogonist, though, not an average chiropractor. Hope this helps.
Yeah but...
… chiropractors are a leading cause of dissecting carotid arteries. I’m glad your son is better, but personally I wouldn’t let a chiropractor near me, but especially not my neck. You might get lucky and they pop something into place, or they can’t, or maybe they give you a stroke.
Chiropractors don’t know anything a good doctor doesn’t know, and they know a hell of a lot less.
Anecdotal evidence is next to totally useless.
Here’s an article:
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/chirostroke.html
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 19, 2010 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions
I have had much better luck with chiropractors than md's
From 6 different md’s with a combined 30-some years of schooling all I got was nearly a dozen misdiagnosis (sp) and steadily worse. I went to a chiropractor and he only required a month and about 100 times less money to fix my problem. I have been fine for over three years. The md’s who think you need to drugs for every little problem are the real quacks here.
Acupuncture and Oseteopaths
do the job with less stress on your joints than chiropractors. Chiropractors do the job but the force they use tends to make you dependent on them for further treatments. Osteopaths do the same thing but in a gentler way.
by CanadianViking on Aug 19, 2010 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Wrong
I understand the misconception you have. Atlas orthogonality does NOT involve heavy manipulations. I posted the website so that you could research it. The manipulation involves careful, precise measurements using xrays and an electrical device which, after a metal rod is placed along the side of the neck necessary to correct the misalignment, creates a vibration of some sort which aligns the atlas. No pain, no side effects. My whole family has had the procedure with amazing results. You cannot confuse this with other chiropractic manipulations, which, in large part, treat only symptoms, not the cause.
Chiropractors of this sort are specialists, and, by definition, rare. They DO know things that “good doctors” do not. My son’s pediatrician was visibly disappointed that we were taking him to see one. If we had listened to him, my son could potentially still be on anti-epileptic meds. He is now 21.
Anecdotal evidence? True. But, there are countless stories of lives that have been changed due to this method.
Open your mind a bit, do some research, then we can discuss it. Knee-jerk ad hominem comments are not learned.
What if.....
It works. He has suffered from them for more than half his life. They started for a reason. An injury, a trauma, who knows? How many more conventional doctors can he see? Drugs will only mask symptoms, not address the cause!!! I know it sounds simple, too good to be true, etc., etc. A simple battery of Xrays, which cost me about $75.00, can determine if his atlas is misaligned, and if he has vertebral subluxation. The doctor consults with you before going further, showing you the xrays, etc.
Sounds interesting
From my limited experience that sounds like a cross between osteopathy and acupressure in its methodology. Thanks for the link as it’s always nice to learn more about various treatments for alignment.
by CanadianViking on Aug 19, 2010 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions
You're welcome
I am writing this not only to try to lead him to a “possible” solution, but, I have also been a lifelong Viking fan. I am 48. I consider every year’s team to be an extension of family. I would not suggest this for any reason other than with the best of intentions.
Sorry to beat a dead horse......
Google three words—-“migraine atlas orthogonality.” Percy, if you somehow learn of this, you owe it to yourself to look into it. To be blunt, doctors will NOT recommend it. Take care and good luck.
Sounds ridiculous...
Chiropractic is not science based. They don’t research their “treatments”. Moreover, they’ll “manipulate” your spine, even worse the vertebrae in your neck, to “treat” virtually any disease or disorder you have. I’ve known people to have chiropractors treat their cancer by spinal manipulations. They’ll also manipulate the spines of healthy infants, which ought to be illegal.
At least medical science is science, and the effect of treatments are researched. If this “atlas orthogonality” procedure has any value, medical science will eventually identify it and actually prove it has value.
The chiropractors will do it whether they can prove it works or not.
And anecdotal evidence is still utterly and completely useless.
I also don’t think you know the meaning of “ad hominem”.
Why would you think this was a misaligned atlas as well? Have you seen an xray? Or I would imagine Percy has had his neck xrayed since he does have an issue with his neck, but since his migraines go back to when he was a child, I can’t see any good reason to assume this has to do with a spinal misalignment.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 20, 2010 6:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Classic non-experience based opinion
It does not perport to “treat” anything! The principle is that in order for the body to perform optimally, proper alignment of the spine is required. It starts with the atlas bone at the base of the skull. EVERY single function and system of the body is controlled by the spinal cord, which runs through the spinal column. Any misalignment of the column CAN impact these functions. Consider it like a wiring system in your car. If a wire should be pressed up against a shard of metal that is not where it should be, over time, this COULD lead to a short circuit and malfunction. The same thing is true with you and I.
There are good medical doctors and there are bad medical doctors. Likewise there are good chiropractors and bad as well. Understand that chiropractors, which do not rely on over-medicating the culture, are in direct conflict with traditional doctors. So no, there will be no acknowledgement of the effectiveness of there procedures.
What is this love affair with traditional doctors? There are countless examples of people dying at the hands of medical doctors, through error, over medication, misdiagnosis, etc. Have you seen what happens to some people who are on statin drugs over time? I have.
Of course I haven’t seen an xray of his neck!!! Does this mean it has been done? You would imagine he has? Great. But, what if this has never been brought to his attention? And, sir, what if he thinks it may have some merit?
I qualified my first statement by saying I am not a doctor. So many of you naysayers talk as if you are both doctors AND lawyers.
Finally, what does your last sentence exactly mean? Are you saying that since his migraines go back to when he was 10 years old, it couldn’t be this? Why? A misalignment, left uncorrected, will remain that way and will get worse. Check out the xrays regarding vertebral subluxation. It is an EDUCATION. You can’ t “see any good reason to assume this has to do with a spinal misalignment.” How more arrogant could you be? Have you given this years of study? Have you personally experienced the method? Do you know someone who has been impacted by it? Or, most likely, did you first hear of this yesterday, and decide to start forming an opinion on the fly? THAT SOUNDS RIDICULOUS.
Ask yourself one question- “If, after 14 years, countless visits to doctors, including the Mayo Clinic, and, still, no apparent progress, why would it now be worth a try, considering the countless testimonials from others?”
Yeah well
How about the fact chiropractors, some of them, suggest spinal manipulations instead of vaccinations?
The two greatest successes of modern medicine are vaccinations and antibiotics. Vaccinations wiped out many diseases that used to kill or disable many people.
If we listen to chiropractors, we’d stop vaccinations and get spinal adjustments instead.
Good luck preventing tetanus or diptheria or pertussis with a spinal manipulation.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 20, 2010 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions
By the way...
I never said his migraines weren’t due to a misaligned spine. I said I have no good reason to think they are. You are the one diagnosing his migraines, not me.
And if they are due to a misaligned spine, why would you assume it’s the axis? Have you seen an xray?
Percy does have a neck issue, likely due to football, but his migraines go back to when he was 10 years old. The neck problem I’ve heard he has two bulging discs, which is not related to alignment of the axis.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 20, 2010 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions
PH's History
I do not know, I have repeated that. Can we assume he was involved in contact sports at that age? Reasonable to do so. It is the atlas bone, a 2-4 oz. bone at the TOP of the spinal column, at the base of the skull. Through this runs the spinal cord. If the atlas is misaligned, this MAY cause an issue. If it is misaligned, the rest of the spinal column also becomes misaligned, to compensate for the atlas. Another way the doctor checks is to have the patient lie down on his/her back. The doctor puts their feet together. If there is a misalignment, the feet will not be level, one will be shorter than the other, sometimes as much as an inch and a half. Mine was off by about an inch one time. The adjustment fixed this. You can do it yourself. Have someone look at your feet (better visual with shoes on) while you lie on your back. As he/she moves them together, while you are relaxed, they may see yours are not level. It is a simple, harmless test.
Bulging disks are an issue, and this will not eliminate them. But, a proper alignment MAY alleviate his migraines, and MAY alleviate some of the disk issues. It would at least provide the maximum conditions for his spine for his body to heal itself.
I am not in ANY way diagnosing anything. I am merely offering a possible solution, as I first stated.
Bottom line- if I am wrong, he has not been harmed in any way. But, if you are wrong, and he would consider not looking into it based on pre-conceived notions, and, it would have helped him had he looked into it, WHAT THEN?
I am not here for any other reason than to help him. I make nothing from it, have no stake in it, etc. I have received the benefits of the treatment and so has my family. It is sad open-mindedness is in such short supply.
You are drifting
Wrong, the doctors I know do not recommend chiropractic instead of conventional medicine. They are not so foolish as to dismiss the value that conventional medicine has. If one does, he is a quack. If only they received the same respect from conventional doctors. If Percy had tetanus, diptheria, etc., this would never have been discussed. You are throwing in a red herring. We are talking specifically about a neurological/cervical issue, nothing more. Why would you advise him to not explore the potential for its effectiveness? I already conceded that there are good chiropractors as well as bad ones. I have been to both. The specialists I am advocating fall into the first category. Stop being insufferably thick headed. I have offered websites for your research. Take a moment to learn about it before responding to me. I would respect your opinion more.
No it is not irrelevent
I linked your own doctors website, read up:
http://www.simmonschiro.net/doctor/chiropractor/325S/chiropractic-Tacoma/mercury-and-autism.htm
I quote from it:
If there is a connection, as some parents assert, chiropractic care may help in two ways:
1. By helping to avoid or reduce the number of inoculations. Many parents choose to enhance their child’s (and their own!) immune systems with regular chiropractic care.
2. By optimizing the nervous system. Reducing biomechanical stress to the nervous system gives autistic children a better chance of becoming all that they can be.
So chiropractic, according to your doctor, can improve your immune system so you don’t need vaccinations, and it can improve autism! What can’t spinal manipulations accomplish?
By the way, the rest of what they post on vaccines there is wrong and outdated. Thimerosal is not used in vaccines today. And even then, there’s no proven link between vaccines and autism.
Moreover, they claim to be able to treat ADHD, allergies, asthma, the list goes on and on… How are spinal manipulations going to treat allergies? Or asthma?
I wouldn’t trust charlatans like these.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 20, 2010 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Read the words carefully
There is no recommendation to REPLACE anything. A strengthened immune system, by definition, leads to better health. It says that it gives autistic children a better CHANCE of becoming all they can be. Something wrong with that? It doesn’t say it cures it.
As to the questions regarding allergies, asthma, I cannot answer that and would not try. They have contact information. They are great people and would be happy to discuss it with you.
Be careful with the use of charlatan, your arrogance is surfacing again. You do NOT know these people, I do. They are close to my family and I. If you have the guts, contact them. I doubt you will though.
And.....
When I last visited him in March, he told us that he has patients in approximately 35 states, and I believe he said from 9 or 10 other countries……..
Oh crap...
… I hope he was exaggerating. I’d hate to think that many people are being conned.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 20, 2010 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah well...
… I won’t contact them because I don’t want to and because they are con artists, or just idiots.
The problem I have with their claims is they are not backed by science. And they are claiming you can “reduce” your immunizations with spinal manipulations.
And how are spinal manipulations going to help autism? Autism is a brain disorder, not a disorder of the spine or peripheral nervous system.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 20, 2010 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Here's some more BS...
… from your charlatan chiropractor:
What controls every cell, tissue and organ of your body?
DNA? Wrong. Immune system? Wrong? Hormones? Wrong. It’s your nervous system, consisting of your brain, spinal cord and all the nerves of your body. When a chiropractor sees a Tacoma patient with say, stomach problems, we want to know why the brain is unable to properly control and regulate the stomach. Which prompts us to examine the nervous system—the focus of chiropractic care.
Translation: We’ll treat ANYTHING with spinal manipulation. By the way, cancer IS the result of errors in DNA, not your spine. Stomach problems might be caused by BACTERIA and require antibiotics… not a spinal manipulation.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 20, 2010 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Sadly
You offer NOTHING, just rants. I look forward to reading more of your pearls of wisdom in the coming days.
You talk like nothing more than a useful idiot for the
AMA. They love your kind of perspective. Ever wonder why there are so many new drugs hitting the market? ONE possible ailment is mentioned as being alleviated, with a slew of possible dangerous side effects. And if you should suffer from a side effect, why more meds!!!! I guess someone like you thinks there is nothing potentially wrong with this. Stick with your arrogant notions, don’t learn anything more than what you have to this point. I’m sure you are a joy to talk to.
Stick with football talk, 24/7. It is less revealing.
Yeah whatever...
… go ahead and treat ulcers with spinal manipulations for all I care. Good luck with it.
I’ll stick to science-based medicine. There are a lot of useful drugs out there.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 20, 2010 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions
By the way...
… now you actually know what “ad hominem” means. It’s what people resort to when they’ve lost an argument, or have nothing more to say.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 20, 2010 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions
For your edification:
Ad hominem abusive usually involves insulting or belittling one’s opponent in order to invalidate their argument, but can also involve pointing out factual but ostensible character flaws or actions which are irrelevant to the opponent’s argument. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and even true negative facts about the opponent’s personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent’s arguments or assertions.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 20, 2010 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions
How do you feel about faith healers?
Do you have an “open mind”? Maybe we need a “laying on of the hands” for Percy. There’s about as much evidence for that as chiropractic, and it will be a lot less risky.
I’m sure I can find a bunch of “testimonials” from people who have been “cured” by faith healers too. Does that make it so?
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 20, 2010 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Hypothetical
Do you have a website, information, testimonials, etc.? I would be more than happy to look into it. My ego is not so tenuous so as to automatically discount it.
Your serious?
Good grief. Well, you have to know this stuff goes on, and not because people don’t believe in it. The point is people will believe in things without any scientific evidence. I’m sure you also know about the placebo effect. Testamonials are useless.
Anyhow, I can google some faith healer crap, here’s something:
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 20, 2010 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions
So I understand
Say PH did receive treatment, and IF the severity and duration of his migraines subsided, and, IF he offered a testimonial to the effectiveness of atlas orthogonality, you would automatically discount it as well? Please tell me that would not be the case….
It isn't proof...
… that the therapy worked. One case doesn’t prove anything. It is anecdotal. There is the placebo effect, for example. Some other condition might improve unrelated to what the chiropractor does.
The only way to establish this is to study a large population, including with a control group. I’m not sure how you do that with adjustments, but whatever.
Some people will always say the treatment helped. Placebo effect.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 20, 2010 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions
So
if there migraines subsided in terms of duration and severity, that is a placebo effect? They are imagining it? What are you saying? These doctors HAVE an existing control group. It is called the patients that have been treated over 40 years!!!!!!! A logical, reasonable conclusion is that there could be some merit to it. An automatic, knee-jerk discounting of the results is NOT scientific.
I see
Good copy and paste work. I don’t consider you as an opponent, that is your mindset. Charlatan, quack, etc. are not abuse? I see. You are a useful idiot, I am sorry to say.
I never called you a charlatan
I called your chiropractor a charlatan. I’m arguing the points with you, not your chiropractor.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 20, 2010 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions
You
offer nothing. I have deferred to those who are expert in the SCIENCE. You sit on the sidelines throwing crap. Nothing more.
Except chiropractic..
.. isn’t science. It just isn’t. It’s wishful thinking not backed by any systematic study.
People best not be taken in by that garbage.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 20, 2010 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions
No...
… because I’m not going to waste my time with a chiropractor. I’m not going to change the mind of someone who doesn’t care about a scientific approach to medicine.
It’s pointless. It’s pointless arguing with you too, but at least maybe I’ll make a point that will dissuade someone else reading it from seeing a chiropractor.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 20, 2010 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Or....
You may end up having the opposite effect. I have not in any way derided the conventional forms of medicine. You have spent the better part of 24 hours trashing something you know so little about.
I have approached it logically. If, after receiving care for the better part of a dozen years, and, still he suffers, why is it out of bounds to explore this?
My son was diagnosed with potential epilepsy when he was six months old, because he had 2 seizures. Conventional tests revealed nothing. THIS doctor, whom you refer to as a charlatan, repaired him. He has not suffered another seizure in 20 years. If that is an “out there” testimonial, that is fine with me.
If he had been your son, who knows what kind of drug-addled condition he would be in to this day.
Well if he really had epiliepsy...
… spinal adjustments didn’t help him.
There are many causes of epilepsy, including genetic, but epilepsy is a brain disorder, not a disorder related to the spinal cord or peripheral nerves.
I’m glad your son is better, but it’s a totally meaningless testamonial by itself. You can’t prove in that one case that the spinal adjustment had anything to do with his seizures abating.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 20, 2010 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions
The point is
he did not!!! He was in the hospital for 2-3 days. They ran a myriad of tests. They found NOTHING. But, this did not preclude them from saying that should he have another seizure within 6 months, he was PROBABLY an epileptic. What kind of science is this SIR? Do you support this methodology? AND, after learning that they found nothing after 2-3 days, and we informed his pediatrician that we were taking him to Dr. Simmons, he showed disdain, just like you. By the way, Dr. Simmons told us exactly how it would proceed when we first checked him into the hospital. He advised us to let them run their tests. He hypothesized that they won’t find anything. He advised us that when they were done, to bring him in. He did not discourage us to let the hospital run tests. He did not dismiss them. But, he was right. That sir, is the definition of wisdom, experience, knowledge, and ultimately SCIENCE. It is not meaningless at all, except for those who are hopelessly stuck in a fundamentalist point of view.
I know what epilepsy is, but, it appears that the hospital did not.
Sure...
… that happens all the time. Medical science is not perfect. However, it progresses based on scientific inquiry.
Chiropractic does not. Chiropractic is not science-based.
If there are treatments chiropractors apply that are useful, what prevents medical science from identifying them and using them? Nothing. If there is anything there, medical science will eventually adapt it.
The fact is, the chiropractors routinely perform treatments that are not shown to work, or are based on fallacious reasoning.
The fact that doctors don’t do those “treatments” is a good reason to have more confidence in medical science than alternative, non science-based medicine.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 20, 2010 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Now to the heart of the matter
What prevents medical science from identifying them and using them?
Have you considered the possibility that maybe, just maybe, there are some in the medical profession that do not want people fixed, that if they are strung along on a tether for a long period of time, that they are more a customer than a patient?
Doctors have HUGE loans to pay off, homes, cars, and lifestyles to support. I see the potential for a conflict of interest, i.e., actually helping patients vs. keeping them in the status quo.
Do not automatically assume that conventional medicine would adopt these practices.
Global warming is “science based” as you say. I suppose you swallow everything these scientists put forth?
Your constant reference to “science” is not an argument. It is a crutch.
From the website.....
The “scientific” argument is largely a red herring and the sign of a double standard. Medical economist David Eddy, MD, Ph.D., observes that only 15% of medical procedures have ever been scientifically verified, and the other 85% of common medical procedures have no “scientific basis!”
Nonsense
First of all, I have no idea what that source is. 15%, ridiculous.
And, if it was 15%, it is still 15% more than chiropractic.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 21, 2010 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey guys been following along
since yesterday and thought I’d jump in and take the middle ground. I’ve had personal experience with many non-traditional and traditional medicinal treatments. Both have positives and negatives and there is a lot about the human body that neither group can cure, diagnose, or completely explain. Taking into account that placebo effect can often be as high as 40% both sides are inexact sciences. Do research into any treatment and hopefully it works whether it’s traditional or not. Discounting almost any methodology is unwise because in many cases the two areas of medicine work well in combination.
by CanadianViking on Aug 20, 2010 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Thank you
I have circled that runway for a day now. All I ever advocated was that, after exhausting many years, tests, and doctors, is it not worth taking a look at? Nothing more.
But be careful
Your statement that you have “personal experience” is likely going to be dismissed as nothing more than a testimonial.
Hey it's fine by me.
Almost any medical treatment involves a margin for error and a margin of success. Different treatments work for different people. My philosophy is just to read, learn, and make choices you believe in and trust. If it works cool, if it doesn’t keep exploring your options.
by CanadianViking on Aug 20, 2010 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Doesn't change the fact...
… that a large amount of chiropractic is either based on pseudoscientific concepts or has little or no scientific validation.
The best I’ve ever been able to find about chiropractic is that for low back pain it might be effective, but probably no more effective than other treatments including massage.
The danger is when people go to these chiropractors and avoid getting the real medical help they need.
At best it’s a waste of money, at worst it is dangerous.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 21, 2010 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions
My guess is....
you haven’t done much research at all on the topic, but, you would like to portray that you have made it a life long study. BS. I am onto you.
Not quite...
Medicine is science-based. It may not always give the desired results, but it can show positive results in double-blind studies.
Much of what chiropractors do has not been similarly verified, or has not been subject at all to double-blind studies.
And yes, personal testamonials are pretty much useless, until they can be backed up with sound science.
Lots of people will claim positive experiences at the chiropractor and negative ones with a medical doctor. Other people will claim a faith healer or a voodoo shaman helped where an MD did not. It doesn’t mean a damn thing.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 21, 2010 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions
well now...
… you are in tin-foil hat territory.
And yes, global warming is soundly established, and the human causes are similarly established.
Why does it not surprise me you bring that up?
The fact that science means nothing to you suggests you don’t understand the foundations of science or the value of it.
How do you think computers and the internet came about? Science.
Let’s see a chiropractor develop a vaccine or an antibiotic, or transplant an organ.
Chiropractic is back rubs applied to cure everything.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 21, 2010 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions
And you sir.....
Are insufferably arrogant.
Global warming is based on computer models ONLY, nothing more. Far be it for me to expect you to use reason when it comes to argument.
More than one poster here has agreed with me. I have not seen one that agrees with you.
Science is NOT establishing a theory, and then building the facts to support it, as with global warming.
Stay in your safe little world, I could care less.
Frankly, this is not about you, I have been wasting my time.
The fact that you are able to write a cogent sentence means nothing.
Science does not have a complicated definition, as you like to portray.
not true
global warming is observed, measuring on land and by satellite.
The greenhouse effect is also validated and well understood.
The optical properties of gases are well understood, they are measured in the lab, including CO2, methane, and other greenhouse gases.
Computer models come in primarily for future predictions of warming.
I know a hell of a lot more about science method than you do. I am a professional scientist, if you want to know.
Science is about validating the predictions of theories with observations and experimentation. That is how science works and that is how medical science works.
Chiropractic works by wishful thinking and telling people what they want to hear.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 21, 2010 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions
While we are on the subject..
Explain to me how the planet has come out of a number of ice ages over the course of its history. There must have been WARMING involved, hmm? I believe the combustion engine did not exist during these warming periods, correct? Or humans as well, hmmm? How, then did the warming occur, and, why, IF it is occurring now (lmao), are people suddenly to blame?
Please enlighten me with a scientific argument.
you miss the point
But I would rather not argue with someone who won’t get the point.
Warming, and cooling, is natural. It is primarily the result of variations in the orbit of the Earth. These happen over a much slower time scale than we are currently seeing warming. Past warm periods are also associated with release of CO2 and other greenhouse gases, which increase warming.
Based on the orbit of the Earth, we ought to be entering a period of cooler temperatures. The fact that we are not is further evidence that global warming is occurring because of man.
That’s all I’m going to say about it. I know you won’t listen, and I know I can’t win any argument about science with you. Someone who has infinite faith in chiropractic and none in established sciences is beyond all hope.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 21, 2010 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions
By the way...
… the argument that because it “can” happen naturally means that now it “can’t” be happening by man-made causes is completely illogical.
And again, the main point is that warm/cold periods that happened in the past happen with changes over tens of thousands of years. The warming we now see is happening over a few hundred years, and dramatically increasing over the last few decades.
The time scale alone plus accurate measurements of solar inputs, the orbit of the Earth (which only gradually changes), tell us that these changes beyond any reasonable doubt are not naturally occurring.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 21, 2010 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions
FINALLY.......
As we all know, there is a split in the scientific community regarding the existence of anthropomorphic global warming. That is a FACT.
Science is essentially man’ s attempt to search for the truth. As such, this requires that one allow himself to be led to the truth. Should one stubbornly cling to a preconceived concept, or worse, an agenda, the search for truth becomes littered with blocks.
I am not impressed by your resume at all. The world at one time was populated by heliocentric scientists, who, likewise clung to their beliefs stubbornly.
Claiming to be a “scientist” does not propel anything you have said to another level.
At a minimum, someone with your “training” would demonstrate curiosity, not pomposity.
I, too, have a resume, but it is not pertinent for this discussion. Have a good day, I am done with this conversation.
There is not a split...
… of any significance when it comes to the principle questions:
1. The Earth is getting warmer
2. It is at least in part due to people
You can always find a few scientists who disagree, but they are in a TINY minority, and many of them are sponsored by companies like Exxon.
As for the argument that scientists get things wrong, for one thing the Sun is at the center of the solar system. Next, many of the preconceived notions of the solar system were propagated by the church.
Finally, the point is that eventually science got it right, which is what really matters.
If chiropractic were to submit itself to the tested, tried, and true scientific method of validation, and demonstrate what it can and can’t do, and stick to that, I’d have no problem with it.
If you are so sure chiropractic is valid for asthma, seizures, the immune system, etc., beyond low back pain, then a scientific study would prove it, right? So what are you afraid of?
Let them prove it works like medical science does routinely.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 21, 2010 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions
You can have your.....
precious conventional medicine, with its emphasis on overmedication, misdiagnoses, and the tried and true scientifically sanctioned electroshock therapy, and the miraculous full frontal lobotomy. All created by the well intentioned, thoroughly investigated modern medical establishment that you bow to. Not to mention the matter of the Tuskegee airmen, another pillar of success for your compatriots. And, should there be victims in their wake, oh well, they are just collateral damage in the neverending cause of helping humanity.
You have not researched this specific method I have put forth, and you won’t for obvious reasons. It does NOT involve backrubs, as you continually, adolescently put forth. At some point I have to defer to the possibility that you are hopeless. I pray that you are never in a position where the necessity for you to look into this would occur. I surmise you would if only to help yourself, though, not if it might help others. Frankly, you disgust me.
I am not afraid of anything. Call the doctor. Ask him to subject himself to scientific scrutiny, as you put it. I am CERTAIN he would have no issue with it. But, first, YOU demonstrate courage, and make the call. I won’t hold my breath.
I suppose statistics are unreliable as well.....
Note the comparitive risks with conventional doctor prescribed medicines. All statistics are footnoted.
Can't find the word "backrub" anywhere......
http://www.simmonschiro.net/doctor/chiropractor/14L/tacoma-chiropractor/techniques.htm
I will keep looking…..what, wait, no the first technique is Atlas Orthogonality. Dang, I will look further, with much curiosity. I am sure hammer is right, he wouldn’t attempt to proselytize without the facts, now, would he? No, he is a “scientist.”
Ok...
… I’ll also take vaccinations, antibiotics, organ transplants, surgery, modern anaesthesia, insulin, modern medications, to name a few things.
If you have a heart attack, are you going to go to a chiropractor, or a cardiologist to get a stent, lipitor, and plavix?
I’m guessing Brett Favre and E.J. Henderson and Cedric Griffin all went to an MD to fix themselves up for the season, rather than go to a chiropractor.
You can have your back rubs.
Chiropractors are doing more or less the same nonsense that Palmer put forth, what, about 100 years ago despite the fact he didn’t understand the germ theory of disease.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 22, 2010 2:32 AM CDT up reply actions
AHA, here it is!!!!
http://www.sweatinstitute.com/content/home.php
No, wrong again. It says “gentle” technique. This is getting frustrating. I will find it, I promise.
Did.....
Percy have a heart attack? Why, um, I thought, uh, it was a migraine. Do you mean I have been led to believe it was something other than a heart attack. Oh, my, this is embarrassing. Sorry everyone. Oh boy.
I think I read somewhere that Brett had scar tissue and bone spurs removed from his ankle. Did I hear that correctly? I don’t think I posted a suggestion for him to look into AO for it. I will have to look back at my records to see. Now EJ, I know he broke his femur, I saw that. Don’t try to trick me with that one. I know I didn’t offer this advice for him. Yeah, when things are broken, when you are bleeding from the carotid artery, etc., I don’t think an AO adjustment would help you. Nope, and don’t try to convince me that it would either. That would be tantamount to offering someone false hope!
A heart attack, really?
By the way.....
Lipitor, no there is another medical marvel, along with all the other statin drugs. You should see the wonders it has done on my 85 year old father. Boy, it is something to behold. Why, he sleeps almost 17 hours a day, falls, slurs his words, and is losing muscular strength rapidly. His cholesterol level? 143. My sister-in-laws husband takes 2 statin drugs, shoot, he doesn’t even know their names. His cholesterol level? 34.
Billions spent and made on the media driven false assumption that cholesterol, which happens to be produced by the body, and is necessary for cellular strength and integrity, if it is some arbitrary number, WILL KILL YOU!!!!!!!!
And I am sure....
you are of the “bag of hammers” stupid belief that if a doctor prescribes statin drugs, there must not be ANYTHING wrong with it. Excuse the “Oh brother where art thou” reference. It is on in the background.
Well I never did say that...
… but I would think that if that was a “stupid belief”, it would be on par with assuming atlas orthogonality can treat migraines, or anything else, with zero evidence.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 22, 2010 2:51 AM CDT up reply actions
This is getting funny now......
So, if a patient who received AO treatments, who had suffered from chronic headaches, looked you straight in the eye and said they have diminished, abated in intensity, or have disappeared, you would say to them what exactly?
I'm glad...
… your headaches are gone. Now hopefully you can think clearly enough to avoid chiropractors.
Headaches sometimes go away, or come, for reasons not entirely clear.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 22, 2010 3:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Why don't you get them..
… to go to your back rub doctor?
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 22, 2010 2:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Since back rubs..
… can treat asthma, ADHD, epilepsy, stomach disorders, improve your immune system, etc., why not branch out into heart disease? Why stick with lower back pain when you can cure anything?
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 22, 2010 2:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Here's one you could read...
.. it appears to be from a pro-chiropractic site, chiro.org:
http://www.chiro.org/ChiroZine/FULL/msn.html
Pay particular attention to this paragraph, which specifically accounts for treatments your doctor offers:
Levy’s experience illustrates why chiropractic is so popular: It is usually used for neuromuscular conditions where evidence is most solid and no treatment option works perfectly. While there’s little evidence supporting the use of chiropractic for conditions like asthma or stomach troubles, experts say studies show the discipline does offer relief — especially to patients with back pain, sore necks and headaches.
Also:
Several years ago, the U.S. Agency for Health Care Policy and Research concluded that chiropractic care is effective in the first month of low back symptoms.
Though it’s unclear just how chiropractic works, one theory holds that it mobilizes the spinal joints to improve the function of the nerves exiting the spine at different levels.
It goes on to make other claims I’ve not seen verified other places.
But why, I wonder, does your doctor perform treatments for asthma, stomach problems, etc., that chiro.org even admit there is no evidence for?
If it quacks like a quack, sounds like a quack, it must be a QUACK.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 22, 2010 2:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Um..
http://www.simmonschiro.net/doctor/chiropractor/308S/chiropractic-Tacoma/asthma.htm
What does it say in bold letters?
Further down, statistics with a link to supporting evidence? Has to be quackery I say!!!!
Um, they are not ambulance chasers.......
Note the line near the bottom-“Remember, you’re doing the healing, not the chiropractor.”
Can't seem to find.......
the word CURE, either. Now, you are really burdening me with research. I might be up awhile. Backrub and cure, right? Putting on coffee now, thanks…….
LOOK HERE!
http://img828.imageshack.us/content_round.php?page=done&l=img828/8420/001emoticon.jpg&via=mupload
"What is best in life?"
"To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women."
Here's another good article...
… that isn’t even totally negative:
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/children/04/11/chiro.forcolic.wmd/
But pay attention to this:
“I would never take a baby or a young child to a chiropractor,” he says. “There’s no good reason to do it, and there may be some risk.”
The dangers go beyond potential damage to growing bones. Pediatric chiropractors often cling to concepts from the far fringes of medicine, Homola says. For instance, many tell parents that spinal manipulations should take the place of vaccines. And despite a shortage of evidence, chiropractors often claim to be able to cure ear infections, asthma, attention deficit disorder and a host of other childhood illnesses, he says.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 22, 2010 3:05 AM CDT up reply actions
There they are again......
http://www.simmonschiro.net/doctor/chiropractor/274S/chiropractic-Tacoma/colic.htm
Bold letters, “Chiropractic is not a cure for colic.”
He is obviously lying, er. or something.
A reflection.....
Interesting that on his website, he states over and over that chiropractic is not a cure for a variety of maladies and conditions.
In reading your posts, the doctors that are critical of chiropractic essentially say, “Well, we don’t know what causes X either or how to cure it.”
But, this does not preclude the stone throwing, much like someone else I know…….
No he states it isn't a treatment...
… and then goes on to propose treating all those ailments with back rubs.
He might be legally required to not make claims that can’t be backed up. Yet, it is fairly clear he is treating colic, autism, ADHD, allergies, stomach conditions, you name it, with back rubs, and then covering his ass on the web page.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 22, 2010 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions
LOOK HERE!
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/3514/kickassvike01.jpg
"What is best in life?"
"To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women."
Per Bernard Berrian
“Percy is don’ fine” whatever that means.
by Jepp The Viking on Aug 19, 2010 4:05 PM CDT reply actions
Possible solution II
Dr. Roy Sweat is the renowned expert in Atlas Orthogonality. He can be googled.
This is becoming a career threating issue
This shows these migraines might derail this young nfl player’s career, I am sad to see this happening to someone with potential but this latest episode is going to be a danger for his career. I dont know…without percy is gonna be a tough pill to swallow.
I think Percy and the Vikings need to think about this. Maybe it would be best if he took a year away from football and tried a lot of alternative therapies like people suggest.
by medicineball on Aug 19, 2010 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, but......
the treatment I suggested would not require extensive time off. He could see relief with the first treatment or two. He will need a few days to rest, because after he sleeps better than he has in years the first night, the next day he will feel like he has a ton of bricks on his shoulders. This is because of the correction that has been made to his upper cervical area. This subsides in a day or so. Then, if needed, an additional treatment or two in the first week, then a maintenance plan is set up, if needed. In reality, he will be raring to go after he sees how well he feels afterwards.
Update
ESPN’s Adam Schefter reports that “early reports” on Percy Harvin’s migraine episode on the practice field Wednesday are encouraging.
Bernard Berrian tweeted Thursday that “Percy’s doin’ fine everyone.” We can’t imagine he’ll be fielding practice punts anytime soon — let alone play in Sunday night’s exhibition game at San Francisco — but it sounds like Harvin avoided a migraine that could ache for several days. “It seemed like he was stable,” confirmed coach Brad Childress. The issue is a career-long concern for Harvin, but he’s not moving in our rankings.
encouraging
nobody likes to hear that kind of thing. had to come over and give some words of encouragement. hope he recovers fully. good luck this season to him and the vikes!
I face these horrifying creatures .
Most people look at victoms of migraines the way ESPN portrays it . At one point in my recovery attempt I was hand feed with a spoon just to hold down three sips of soup . I remember dropping 35 lbs in three weeks . I went from 204lbs too 169 lbs . . Then you deal withother issues at that point . 24 hrs on and 24 hours off . Always focusing on different points in the head . Top of head . Behind each eye . Temple . Jaw line . I took some super vitamin horse pills that had 30+ times the daily allowance to maintain . The acid reflux can . Thru repetitiveness burning of stomach acids all the way up thru the tonsil area . One medication left me writing a note . How do you explain to a loved one that your throat is closing up and you are rushing to the car in a blizzard . So you don’t pass out before you can be taken to an emergency room . My job tossed me when I got a specialist . The kicker . I abandoned the two $40 pills every 8hrs . I curled up in a ball . Created my own little world for a year and a half . I married the girl that endured all that . I even apologized to the cop for not renewing my licence . Two years before . Life was a complete blur . I to this day still have high blood pressure caused by migraines . I remember when I use to mow a yard 5 minutes at a time . Four days to finish . I am much better . I chose with my wife a yard that is .1 acres . It is three blocks from the Catholic church and school .
I don’t drink . But they say migraines are like alcoholism . It seldom is completely removed . It is a life long battle . Crying yourself to sleep is only necesary after prolonged periods of ensomnia . Or 36 hr episodes . I too this day limit my computer access because of the threat of on setting migraines . I have anxiety know when thinking of those times . I am a psyc major and control my habits and emotions well . I am a disciplined person . Without habits . It isn’t a miracle he can perform at high levels as much as it is that he can maintain peak conditioning . Consentrated lights in most cases , various sounds and even smells will trigger an episode . Stress is a big factor but not always . They can sneak up or bum rush you at any point and time . Day or night.
This dedicated Vike fan use to listen to the T.V. with a blanket over the screen . The motion of the shadows from across the room would trigger . A boss would call and ask why I am watching the game if I was so sick . Tears in my eyes I would not have the energy to hold up the phone let alone explain . I can’t remember a damn game . But at least I was there for my boys !!!
Mr. Gothic in the lighter days ….
Man, you have had a full plate of that. Wishing that you keep escaping all that.
by medicineball on Aug 19, 2010 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm beginning to wonder...
…. if they really know what is going on with Percy. At any rate, something that makes you collapse is pretty serious.
This is pretty scary to have a guy with this debilitating a condition out playing professional football. He isn’t out there kicking field goals either.
Get well Percy.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 19, 2010 5:28 PM CDT reply actions
Packers fan stopping by.
Just read about this at APC. I work in a hospital, so I know how quickly things can go wrong in a seemingly healthy person. This sounds scary, and I hope Harvin recovers soon.
Have there been any updates on this since the news broke?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 19, 2010 6:03 PM CDT reply actions
cowboys fan
although i dont have first hand experience. i have some family that has struggled with them. turned out even things like eating too much chocolate for some people bring them to their knees.
its good everyone here has kept a good catalog of the latest news. hope he can remedy it and come back to the field.
I'm sorry to hear about Harvin.
While I don’t know what a migraine’s like I do what my gf goes through. I hope he can get it under control and come back hard & fast.
Unless we all conform, unless we follow our leaders blindly, there is no possible way we can remain free. ~Frank Burns
Harvin alert, resting at hospital
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp10/news/story?id=5476849
And, boy howdy, if you’d like to keep your blood pressure low, do NOT go to any of the Pro Football Talk stories about Harvin today. I’m sorry I allowed myself to get dragged into them. . .it’s simply amazing the sort of cesspools that some of the Viking haters of the world crawl out of.
SBNation Minnesota - For the greatest sports fans in the world.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on Aug 19, 2010 6:36 PM CDT reply actions
IR?
Maybe he could use a year on IR to really take some time and try to find some solutions. He doesn’t want to spend his whole life fighting those migraines.
In any case, I just think his health is #1 and football is #2.
Question...
maybe this is stupid…but does acupuncture help to alleviate migranes at all?
I'm still a Minnesotan at heart...
Yes
It’s either highly successful near the start of treatment or it just provides mild relief. It depends on the person and is kinda 50/50. I had neck and back issues and acupuncture was amazing for a few months but the relief leveled off after a while but I would still recommend it to anyone as the results range from good to great.
by CanadianViking on Aug 19, 2010 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Awesome!
I personally am glad he’s sick one less player for the sept 9th game against the saints. Minnesota sucks its a terrible city unfairly robbed of the lombardi trophy ….lol…just kidding get well percy see you on 9/9…..ok I took a shot….but I really wish percy good health this kind of stuff scares me sometimes people dont get up…..can it possibly be somthing more serious?….buddha saint
by blackandgoldbuddha on Aug 19, 2010 8:21 PM CDT reply actions
Im sorry and Im not like this normally
but Get the fuck off this site
Whether you are kidding or not, we dont have time for your worthless and useless trash and garbage post. You dont kid about something that can seriously harm a guy like that. What if I started joking about Katrina like “sweet thats thousands less Saints fans that wont be at their games.” You just dont do that. Learn some damn manners and courtesy.
Sincerely Percys BIGGEST EFFING Fan
What you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your entire rambling incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Aug 19, 2010 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Hey there.
Any recent updates on Harvin?
P.S.: You’re right in your stance.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 19, 2010 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Bad timing w/your joke.
This isn’t a minor injury, Harvin collapsed on the field today.
He’s not down with a minor ankle sprain or something like that. He actually fell to the ground and vomited after he looked to the sky on a PR…. This is pretty serious!
I’m not sure if you know this, but Korey Stringer died in mini-camp a few years ago, so players going down like that brings a lot of concern around here.
Most opposing fans know about Korey Stringer
And, to most of them, it’s just another Viking-related punch line.
SBNation Minnesota - For the greatest sports fans in the world.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on Aug 19, 2010 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions
A little class goes a long ways
After all the myopic years the Saints had,and there was some bad years when most Fans Brown bagged it to games and I dont mean lunch.You come here and take a shot at a player that might have to give up his career as a football player,when Katrina hit, States all over offered to take in the homeless.They showed compassion and offered a hand when N.O. vomited and fell to its knees.You would think that a lesson was learned,but all you will invoke is bad karma,the Gods have a way of returning acts of unkindness.You, Sir I am ashamed that your part of the human race,and I wont even class you as Saint fan,cause even the Die hard Saint fans that come here wouldnt have stooped as low.
Just wanted to drop by and say....
I hope Harvin gets better. I love watching him play and wish nothing but good health for him.
"Hi, my name is Doug. I enjoy walks in the rain and bags of pork rinds."
Sorry your feelings are hurt....but I have a right to be on here...
Wow I honestly felt bad for percy and I heard he was doing well. I now see my joke was bad and out of line. I totally forgot about Korey Stringer. I was only trying to lighten the situation. Minnesota fans have trashed new orleans in the worst way. I was in Katrina. I lost a family member in the storm. I now live in Houston because of it. I have read so much hate and venom from vikings fans like wishing for Brees to be taken off on strecther. They say new orleans is a shitty and dirty city and on and on. Vikings fans have no respect for new orleans or its. I now see its been a waste of time joining your site. I enjoy the saints-vikings rivalry that why I joined this site however you guys are very hypocritical and just a bit to into for me but luck winning a superbowl any how.
by blackandgoldbuddha on Aug 20, 2010 12:27 AM CDT reply actions
Cant say I am sorry see ya leave
Dont let the door hit you on the Ass on the way out.To get help from others when you was down and out and needed help and compassion makes you an even sadder piece of shit then what I thought.
You should be grateful that others went out of their way to help others in less fortunate ways.
It doesnt matter who Harvin plays for,what color his skin is,that stopped when he collapsed,should have stopped years before then.What should matter is a fellow human being,is in need and prayers and well wishes are in order.
Taunts and trash talk fine during game day,not when someone is hurt.
If New Orleans so great,how come you still in Houston.
This in no way
makes light of what happened in New Orleans, or the many places hit hard by Mother Nature.
We as a Human race need compassion,and just because we hide behind a screen name doesnt mean we need to belittle others.I am guilty of this and if you read upwards, I need to take a time out before I post.
I should have stepped back before I posted and didnt,I let the heat of my feelings rule me.
Your right Budda,I shouldnt have attacked you the way I did.Your views here are just as important as mine,and I ask you forgiveness in my transgression on your views.
You are stupid
Go to you site and look at my post from about 3 weeks ago about my time in New Orleans. Yea I defintely trashed your city, that’s why I got 8 recs
What you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your entire rambling incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Aug 20, 2010 7:25 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I can't think about football right now
Just get well and feel better soon man.
Prayers from Upstate NY.
To all Vikings fans I sincerely apologize....
Percy Harvin My fav you are the type who just talks a whole lot of nothing. You name call and try to stir up people’s emotions. You have a right to say it and I fought for that so say it my friend.
Speedlod you have killed me on your posts but its ok. I served in Iraq in 2004 and I was in Katrina in 2005 but I wasin no way down and out I just adjust and adapt. I am tired of talking about Katrina. I am tired of hearing vikings fan disrespect new orleans and its citizens but I respect their right to say it.
For the last time my post about Percy Harvin was simply a parody on how vikings fans treat new orleans fans. I had already heard percy was doing well.
*****Hello***** Vikings fans you are the most overly sensitive bunch I have ever come across.
Speedlod I never said New Orleans is great it is in some ways and its no so great in others I know that. I just couldnt believe how vikings fan would talk about katrina with no regard or respect. Its seems like its ok to trash a place where thousands of people died but it is not ok to joke about a football player who has migranes????
Maybe viking fans dont care about troops who have died serving over seas or young men who die on the streets of new orleans everyday.
Bottom line is I should not have posted without thinking about what I was saying. I am a veteran and I am from new orleans I have very thick skin I forget sometimes how sensitive people are. Vikings fan I will be around as long as you hate the saints it feels good to be so despised it means we did something you want to….
by blackandgoldbuddha on Aug 20, 2010 11:01 AM CDT reply actions
That's what you call a sincere apology?
It looks a lot like hypocrisy to me, 10% apology and 90% attack. I think I can do better than that. How about I just respect 99% of the people of New Orleans, 99% of our veterans and I’ll put you in the 1 percentile.
"What is best in life?"
"To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women."
Yes
Cryhavoc thats the best you’ll get think what you want and do what you have to. I dont need your respect I earned it serving.
by blackandgoldbuddha on Aug 20, 2010 11:54 AM CDT reply actions
Much to your dismay
Percy is already back on the field. I understand your ’’joke’’ but you have to realize that was perhaps the worst timing of any thing I have ever read. Think of it this way. What if I started a post on CSC with the title.
NEW ORLEANS IS A EFFING GARBAGE HEAP AND I’M GLAD THAT STORM ANAL RAPED IT. Haha just kidding blah blah good vibes …ad nauseum.
See out point? There is a time and a place for everything dude, I suggest learning some class.
by Jepp The Viking on Aug 20, 2010 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions
You should also know
As Vikings fans we’ve already had a much loved player collapse and die on the field not too long ago. That is why we are ‘“overly sensitive’’.
by Jepp The Viking on Aug 20, 2010 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Having served our country is something to be proud of.
It is not however, a free pass to behaving like an ass. Even respect earned, can be lost.
"What is best in life?"
"To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women."
by cryhavoc on Aug 20, 2010 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I have lost no respect
Jeep the Viking. I have read post similar to yours and many others about Hurricane katrina. In fact before the NCFCG you guys had a big hurricane with a vikings symbol in the middle on this site.
I lost a family member in Katrina but I didnt call you guys classless. I didnt join your site and name call. I just understood some people didnt care.
If you read my post I said my timimg was bad. I said I only posted after they reported he was doing well. I said I forgot about Stringer. Im sorry but one insensitive post does not erase a year in Iraq.
What gives viking fans the right to “act an ass”? A NCFCG game loss? Harvin has migranes and he is ok. C’mon people.
You guys are fun. Why do you refuse to understand viking fans have trashed my city 10 times worse than my poor post.
In the future I will have more respect and I will learn to represent myself with a level of class if I am going to post here.
by blackandgoldbuddha on Aug 20, 2010 12:32 PM CDT reply actions
Consider it done.
I’m fine on both ends. I (we) just wanted you to understand that a player collapsing and being taken to the hospital hits hard here on the DN. Good luck to your Saints and a festive Week 1. May the best team win.
by Jepp The Viking on Aug 20, 2010 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions
And you are right
The Katrina/Viking logo with was tasteless, as called out by Chris Gates (lead blogger) when it happened. No true Viking fan welcome here supported that nonsense.
by Jepp The Viking on Aug 20, 2010 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I am the type that talks a whole lot?
Then why do all the other sites love me? Ask canalstreet, the colts, acmepacking, even windycity. I get pissed when you talk about the Vikings and I take big exception when some disrespects Percy.
-The point that you keep making that we all talk about Katrina and joke about it is stupid. It happened once by one person and they were called out.
-I honestly could give a shit less if you were in Iraq. That doesn’t give you the right to be an ass and then not be held accountable for it.
-And learn how to use the damn reply button.
What you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your entire rambling incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Aug 20, 2010 6:44 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Time heals all wounds...
Percy Harvin My Fav…please forgive me so all can be right in my world…….buddha saint
by blackandgoldbuddha on Aug 20, 2010 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions
No Thank You
Dont trash my favorite player and a hero to me when I suffer from Migraines too and I know how hard it is to practice in August with the sun out and my allergies that come around. I play high school football right now and theres times when I cant practice at 100% because of the migraines. And for you too act like its a joke insults me personally and all Viking Nation. So Dont come back to the DN until you can offer some good insight on football. Or you can come back after our team kicks yours ass and I hope that Percy just has the game of his career and you feel stupid.
What you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your entire rambling incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Aug 21, 2010 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions
Forgive and forget Percy...
Hey Im sorry you suffer from migranes. I wont keep apologizing over and over in every post I have apologized.
Once again…In the future I will have more respect and I will learn to represent myself with a level of class if I am going to post here.
One last time my orignal past my a tastless out of line parody of how others fans treat saints fans….
Percy you waste time telling me to not post on here its a free country….
by blackandgoldbuddha on Aug 21, 2010 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Its fine. Im sorry I get
a little defensive when someone makes fun of people because of something thats wrong with them.
And yes it is a free county but you have to abide by rules. And that is an unwritten rule of SBNation. You don’t troll on other sites.
What you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your entire rambling incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Aug 21, 2010 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions
I think I once distanced myself from a Packers fan who was trolling here
At the end of January.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 21, 2010 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Honestly....
I dont know what trolling means….lol…I am so new to SB nation as far as posting comments. I always hear the words “troll” or “rec’ed” but I dont know what they mean…maybe you can help PHMF…I actually suffer from a very seious disease myself and I have just learned nothing is so serious.
You have to learn to not take life or football too serious…I am only on webites more now because i dont leave home much.
by blackandgoldbuddha on Aug 21, 2010 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Trolling means talking smack about an opposing team.
It usually happens when you’re on that team’s blog, though it can also happen on your home team’s blog.
If you show up on an opposing team’s blog talking smack about them or pulling a joke about their team, many posters on their blog consider it trolling.
The Vikings’ rivalry with the Packers is possibly the most intense rivalry in the NFL. Despite that fact, haven’t you wondered why no Vikings fans have taken shots at the Packers in reply to me? Because the guys here at DN know I’m not here to bash the Vikings. I’m a Packers fan first, a football fan second.
When I come here, I come to talk football.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 21, 2010 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Coming from a Packers fan here,
I have to say that your original post on this subject was beyond tacky. Look at the other posts by fans of other teams, they never joked about this.
As someone who works in the health care business, I know how quickly things can change in a hurry. Case in point: on Wednesday, a co-worker tried yanking a wire out of a tangle. It whipped through the air and nailed me directly in the left eye.
I got no remarks about being one-eyed at all. I assure you if I had, the person making the remark would have been very sorry he had made it.
And as for Percy Harvin My Fave, he is one of the classier guys I have seen on the sports blogs. You really have to say something bad in order to annoy him the way you did following your first post.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 21, 2010 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oops, PHMF,
I misspelled your username. My bad.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 21, 2010 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions
No worrys, its long so I can understand :)
What you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your entire rambling incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Aug 21, 2010 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey packer fan
I GET IT PHMF IS A GREAT GUY THE RUMORS ARE TRUE OK. WHAT KILLS ME IS EVERY TEAMS FAN RIPS THE SAINTS….EVERY WHICH WAY…..i MADE MY TASTLESS JOKE AFTER PERCY WAS REPORTED TO BE FINE. LAST TIME LETS MOVE ON…
One last time my orignal past my a tastless out of line parody of how others fans treat saints fans….
In the future I will have more respect and I will learn to represent myself with a level of class if I am going to post here
by blackandgoldbuddha on Aug 21, 2010 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Stay classy New Orleans.
I don’t know which baseball team you follow, but you can tell from my user name which team I follow.
The Cubs recently traded Derrek Lee to the Atlanta Braves. I joined the Atlanta Braves’ SB Nation blog, and proceeded to write this post during a break at work.
I knew it was a risk, writing a FanPost on another team’s blog, but look at the top.
SB Nation Atlanta Editor’s Pick
I always try to maintain a level of class when posting on another team’s blog. Just ask the guys at True Blue LA, Stampede Blue, or here at Daily Norseman. And two guys tried trolling me at Talking Chop (peruse the comments), but I wasn’t taking the bait.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 21, 2010 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I hear you Vermont
I understand where you are coming from. I dont follow basball but my grandfather was from new oleans but was a faithful cubs fan until he died. I grew up watching the cubs and saints. I dont follow them as I used but I always cheer them on.
This is only the second site Ive ever joined and the first time ive posted. I have been viewing the comments about the saints from this and many other sites for months people post terrible things and hide behind a screen name that it not who I am.
I got called out. I am not hiding but it seems no wants to hear me explain or apoligize
by blackandgoldbuddha on Aug 21, 2010 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions
From my experience,
The first SB Nation blog I joined was Bleed Cubbie Blue (the Cubs’ blog, I originally only intended to stay there).
The moderator there has very high standards of how he wants people to act in their posts. I’ve been warned while on BCB several times, but I’m still a member there. As a result, I try to maintain a level of class when I head over to other team’s blogs.
Let me say this: I have nothing against the Saints at all. I was actually commenting during the pregame thread at CSC earlier today. I joined CSC after the Super Bowl in February. The guys here know me pretty well, and as a Packers fan you can guess I don’t like the Vikings too much.
However, I come here to talk football with them, and to gain insights on how Minnesota is doing. In fact, I think it’s better when you join other team’s blogs. For me, it’s been possibly the best thing I’ve done while on SB Nation. I’ve gained new insights on other teams that I wouldn’t normally have received. If I’m interested in sharing my perspective with the other team’s fans, I take the step of making Posts on their blogs (I’ve done this at True Blue LA and Talking Chop).
I joined Canal Street Chronicles to see how the Saints are doing. However, I’ve only ever made five comments there. My comment total will likely increase the next time Green Bay plays New Orleans … you’ll know the FanPost you’re looking for when you see it.
Best of luck to the Saints in 2010.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 21, 2010 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions
I think you got jumped on for a stupid comment but more so because of other Saint's fans.
Just as you have seen many Vikings fans taking tasteless shots at New Orleans and your football team many Saints fans have made offensive comments about the Vikings. Stupid smack talk tends to be pretty circular so there’s lots of blame on both sides.
Stick to straight football talk for a while and you’ll be treated well here. Once you’ve been around for little while and people know you’re not trying to stir stuff up you can be more outspoken. I’ll give you props for apologizing as I realize you were attempting humor that came off wrong and then owned up to your mistake.
by CanadianViking on Aug 21, 2010 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Thanks I agree
Im not on here for all the smack talk I really am a fan of football period and off good sportsmanship. In my orignal post I said I was only kidding but no one cared….
i actually have been told i’m a funny guy ..go figure….good luck vikes!
by blackandgoldbuddha on Aug 21, 2010 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Just bad timing
combined with some bad history with Saints fans. Like you said you’ve seen the other side of the coin on Canal st. and other places. Good luck to your Saints this season except for the opener of course : )
by CanadianViking on Aug 21, 2010 8:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I will say this.
That opener will be one HECK of a game. Is it in New Orleans or Minnesota?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 21, 2010 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions
In New Orleans when we raise the banner ...thats no shot to vike fans....
I believe it will be a good game however its only the opener and as much as I want the saints to convincley beat the vikes its going to be a long season so I dont put to much stock into it.
One time will not repeat the magic of last year.
CanadianViking do you see Farve having another spectacular year?
I dont see the saints defense creating 39 turnovers again this year. I really wished we were as stout as the vikes front seven.
by blackandgoldbuddha on Aug 21, 2010 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I see Favre having a good year but maybe not as good as last year.
Sidney Rice has a lingering hip issue so if that doesn’t get better I expect a little drop off in our passing game unless a healthy Berrian and Harvin pick up the slack. For Favre I expect similar yardage and TD totals but I think he’ll probably throw a few more picks even though I don’t want him to.
I agree with you that the Saints D will take a bit of a step backward this year to because those turnover #‘s will be hard to repeat and those turnovers really helped to cover up some of their holes. What’s Sharper’s health status these days?
I think both our teams might end up with slightly worse records this year but still end up in the hunt for the byes in the NFC. I’d also predict that San Fran, Dallas, Green Bay, and maybe the Giants to round out the playoff field.
by CanadianViking on Aug 21, 2010 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Sharper who knows
Sharper is still on the pup list his status is still unclear. He has yet practice all camp. I feel they are bringing him along slowly, maybe to have him healthy for end of the season. I am not counting on another big season from him.
I keep reading Rice is unhappy with his contract.
I dont see farve having a good year and not because I dislike him I think all the farve hype and talk is a setup for a let down. I thought you guys should have atleast drafted clausen. Is Tavaris the answer?
I agree with all your teams expect I put Atlanta in the hunt. My dark horse is Washington better QB play and they have always had good D.
by blackandgoldbuddha on Aug 21, 2010 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Favre will be good but not necessarily great this year.
I’m hoping we get back to focusing a little more on the running game as it complements our bend but don’t break defense better than the pass first style we got into towards the end of last year.
Not sure what the deal is with Rice. The injury seems legit as he saw three specialists and at least one recommended surgery, but he does also deserve a healthy raise and he hasn’t made any public comments yet about his contract.
I’m probably in the minority of Vikings fans who does believe Tarvaris is the post-Favre answer but nobody really knows if he’s made the leap to being a quality QB since he hasn’t played meaningful football since 08. I’d guess the majority of Vikings fans wanted to draft a QB this year but people seemed split between loving and hating Clausen.
Yeah for one of the wildcard spots I see a battle between Atlanta, New York, Philly, and Washington or Seattle could surprise some people. I only include Seattle because they, like San Fran, have one of the easiest schedules in the league this year.
by CanadianViking on Aug 21, 2010 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Very glad to hear that Harvin is back at practice.
I really like watching him play. I’m sure the Vikings are getting him the very best medical attention possible.
The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese in the trap.
Glad to hear he's back
Rival or not, it’s scary to hear about any player going down that bad. He’s definitely in my prayers and I hope whether via pharmaceuticals, chiropracty, herbal medicine, or voodoo doll, he’s able to get that problem under control.
God Bless Texas
Condolences go out from Steeler Nation
Glad to hear he is back at practice and hope all is well.
Never ever like to see or hear about this happening to anyone. Doesnt help that I was watching the doco on Hank Ganther the other night, yet another reminder how short life can be
Keep your heads up. Harvin is a battler, and just hope its nothing serious
Bleeding Black and Gold.....forever
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