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How does Brett Favre’s Decision Affect the Vikings?

 

Okay, let’s see if we can reconstruct the last 24 hours or so.  Yesterday morning Judd Zulgad of the Star Tribune wrote a story that Brett Favre had sent messages to teammates and management that he was retiring.  ESPN went to DEFCON-1, and beat that story harder and longer than the Vikings beat Dallas in the playoffs last year.  Yeah, worse than that, which I didn’t think possible.  Yesterday afternoon close friend and teammate Ryan Longwell said he hadn’t heard anything, and he had spoken to Favre, who hadn’t mentioned anything about retirement.  Last night, Favre’s brother, his mom, and close friend Steve Mariucci all doubted that Favre was retiring.  This morning, Zulgad reported that the Vikings were offering up to $20 million, if all incentives are met, to return for 2010.  Then, finally, 24 hours after all this broke, Favre spoke.  He told ESPN’s Ed Werder that he didn’t send any text messages about retiring to anyone, it’s not about the money, and if the ankle is healthy, he’s…wait for it…playing.  Lost in all of this, for the most part, is how would the Vikings fare with Favre, and how would they fare without him?  Let’s look at it, shall we?

Star-divide

In 2008, the Vikings were 10-6 and won the division without Brett Favre, but they were a quick one and done in the playoffs, losing to the Eagles.  Last year, Minnesota went 12-4 and came tantalizingly close to the Super Bowl.  The bottom line is that without Favre, the Vikings were a marginal playoff team, and with him they are a legitimate Super Bowl contender.  Without question, he makes this team better.

But without him, is this the same marginal playoff team from 2008?  It’s easy to say yes, because of the perceived drop-off from Favre to Tarvaris Jackson, the presumed starter in Favre’s absence.  But let’s look at it a little closer, using history, reasoned analysis, and some help from AccuScore and ESPN’s NFC North blogger, Kevin Seifert.

In 2008, the Vikings beat the Bears by one game, the Packers were 6-10, and the Lions had their historic 0-16 campaign.  In 2009, with Favre, the Vikings were 12-4, or two games better, while the Bears regressed to 7-9, the Packers dramatically improved, and the Lions…were still the Lions.  Let’s look at the NFC North teams, and see where they are in relation to the Vikings without Favre. 

The Lions are better, but still no threat this year.  I don’t see the Bears being much better than 8-8.  Yes, they have Julius Peppers, but the Mike Martz offense requires a good offensive line to protect their quarterback, because the deep offense is heavy on deep passing routes.  It also requires good receivers, and I don’t see the Bears having either.  Their defense is still one year older, and other than Peppers, they don’t have much.  So that leaves the Packers.  They were 11-5 last year, and there’s no reason to believe they won’t at least match that again.  They have consistency issues in defense, but with another year in the Dom Capers system, they will at a minimum be no worse.  Aaron Rodgers is the real deal, and their offensive line is better with rookie Bryan Bulaga.  The Packers are the team to be most concerned about, but other than the head to head matchups, they are the things that are largely out of the Vikings control.

The Vikings have a tougher schedule than 2008, but they have a better team on offense than that team, even without Favre.  According to Accuscore, via Kevin Seifert, the Vikes are between an 11 and 12 win team, and without him a 9 win team.  BUT…

That is based on historical averages and tendencies, and I find it hard to believe that Tarvaris Jackson will be as average as he was in 2008.  He has another more year in the system, better receivers, and a defense that is returning all eleven starters.  For example, let’s look at the top wide receivers he had to throw to in 2008:

 

Player

Receptions

Yards

TD

YPC

Berrian, B.

48

964

7

20.1

Wade, B.

53

645

2

12.2

 

Bobby Wade was the team leader in receptions.  Bobby…Wade.  There were two legitimate wide receiver options in 2008, and one was Bobby Wade.  Bobby Wade was a good 10 yard out guy, but could not stretch the field or beat press coverage.  There are now three legitimate options, all of who beat coverage and stretch the field, and that’s not including running backs and TE Visanthe Shiancoe.

Now, let’s look at 2009:

Player

Receptions

Yards

TD

YPC

Rice

83

1,312

8

15.8

Harvin

60

790

6

13.2

Berrian

55

618

4

11.2

 

The bottom line is that the best wide receiver from 2008 was the third best in 2009.  Yes, Berrian was injured early, but was healthy by the 8th week, and was a luxury. 

The 2008 team had a -6 turnover differential, mostly due to Gus Frerotte’s 15 interceptions, and still won 10 games.  Jackson’s TD-INT ratio was 9-2, so I don’t think the turnover ratio will be a negative number.  If you can minimize turnovers, you give yourself a great chance of winning the game.  Jackson minimizes turnovers, and I can see them at least duplicating the +6 ratio the 2009 team had.  I don’t think that the safeties will have only 1 interception between them, and there is no way Adrian Peterson puts it on the ground as much as he did last year. 

Granted, Tarvaris Jackson has to prove that he can hit the open receiver on a consistent basis and stay healthy, but even without Favre, this is a legitimate playoff team and division title contender.

 

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Thanks for the stats

Just to make me completely terrified if Brett doesn’t come back.

But he’s still totally coming back.

by Eric J. Thompson on Aug 4, 2010 1:22 PM CDT reply actions  

With the talent on this team,

I’d call the Vikings a 10-6 team with Jackson.

by Jesse on Aug 4, 2010 1:22 PM CDT reply actions  

Probably pretty accurate

But I’m sorta sick of going 10-6 and getting knocked out of the Wild Card/Divisional round of the playoffs.

by Eric J. Thompson on Aug 4, 2010 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Absolutely.

Good team without him, chance to be a great team with him.

Somebody go offer to buy him a dozen pair of Wrangler jeans and a mint julip or whatever southerners drink.

by Jesse on Aug 4, 2010 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

That’s what I’d guess. I don’t think Jackson will be able to get it done in the playoffs though.

Moot point though, cause Favre will be back.

by packallday555 on Aug 4, 2010 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Brett's conflicting statements.

He said about two weeks ago on yahoo sports and NFL.com that the ankle wouldn’t keep him from playing and that the damage had been done. He said it wouldn’t stop him from playing.

Now only a few, short weeks later he is saying that if his ankle is healthy enough he will play. These arent reports, these are taken from the horses mouth. Thanks for spinning us right round. I gotta thinks this guy doesn’t just change his mind, but his perception of things changes quite often.

Who cares just come back. I’ll even wear a #4 jersey that says “Diva” on it.

Oh yeah 10-6 with T.Jack

Favre, even your agent has had enough. The drunken grillmaster, Buzz Cook, is getting too old for this.

by VikesPma on Aug 4, 2010 1:23 PM CDT reply actions  

Not really conflicting

His previous statement was that he wouldn’t stay retired to prevent further injury to his ankle. Thus the “damage has been done” comment.

This most recent comment is in regards to the surgery he had this offseason. Supposedly, it’s not any better than it was when he had the surgery. That’s why he is reportedly meeting with Dr. Andrews later this week.

I think 10-6 or 11-5 is definitely attainable with Jackson. Of course, if he shocks some people we could be even better than that.

by Cobra312004 on Aug 4, 2010 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Brett did 100% absolutley state a few short weeks ago that

The injured ankle would not keep him from playing and then went on to say that he wouldn’t stay retired to prevent futher injury.

He said the ankle wouldn’t keep him from playing in articles posted a few weeks ago on NFL.com and Yahoo sports.

He goes back and forth so much he might not stop to see the contradiction.

Favre, even your agent has had enough. The drunken grillmaster, Buzz Cook, is getting too old for this.

by VikesPma on Aug 4, 2010 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

you just made my day

i think i can come down from the ledge now.

by muffin man on Aug 4, 2010 1:37 PM CDT reply actions  

You?

Just think of how R4F must be flipping out! I’ve only seen a couple comments from him since this exploded yesterday…I’m worried! :)

by Eric J. Thompson on Aug 4, 2010 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't understand the 2008 comments pertaining to TJ

He didn’t play that many games. Gus did, and Gus sucked. The fact that TJ was replaced by that guy and then couldn’t/wouldn’t take the spot back when Gus had a 59% completion percentage and a 71 QB rating. Gus also had a total of 12 TD’s and 15 Ints as well as 4 fumbles. Now with this in mind Gus started 11 games. Oh wait he also had 7 yards out of 19 attempts for a solid 0.4 yard average. Honestly, TJ did not take us to a 10-6 season the lowly Frerrote did. I don’t expect much out of TJ as it seems he’s a camp all star and a game day bust.

Honestly if Favre doesn’t come back I’m blaming this mess on Childress and his lack of foresight on getting a new QB to work with (and don’t say Joe Webb we all know he got brought on as a WR)

It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...

by Grime on Aug 4, 2010 2:30 PM CDT reply actions  

we were winning

The fact that TJ was replaced by that guy and then couldn’t/wouldn’t take the spot back when Gus had a 59% completion percentage and a 71 QB rating. Gus also had a total of 12 TD’s and 15 Ints as well as 4 fumbles.

You don’t replace your starting QB when you’re winning. After Gus went down, Jackson DID win the job back. That’s why HE continued to start even when Gus was healthy again.

by Cobra312004 on Aug 4, 2010 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Gus

An inaccurate, imobile QB with a rocket arm. Good for launching grenades, but thats about it.

Favre, even your agent has had enough. The drunken grillmaster, Buzz Cook, is getting too old for this.

by VikesPma on Aug 5, 2010 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

I half agree and half disagree

I’ll agree that Jackson did not take us to a 10 win season. Partially due to him (Mostly due to playcalls and a classic Shiancoe TD-drop ) we left the first two games of the ‘08 season on the field. But once he came back after Frerotte got injured/started sucking again, he was on fire. Until the second half of the playoff game. That is what Jackson will give you; Some good, flashy games, followed by some terrible games that make you wanna pull your hair out. He isn’t elite, but he IS servicable, enough to guide this team to the playoffs.

by Frost on Aug 4, 2010 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

The faith you guys have in Favre

is amazing and quite impressive. It is misplaced and wholly irrational on just about every level imaginable, but it is impressive nonetheless.

/shakes head in wonderment

by horace clark on Aug 4, 2010 5:02 PM CDT reply actions  

12-4 wasn't too far from 10-6 last year

Without going back to the 08 games, I seem to remember a few games that we should of/could of won. On the same token, I distinctly remember a win (Niners) or two (Ravens) that could have just as easily been loses, putting us at 10-6 with lord Favre.

The point I’m trying to make here is that the QB we have doesn’t automatically equal a certain win-lose ratio.

The reason I want Favre back is that a defense will respect the passing game more and hopefully give us balance and that his knowledge of defense and the offense we run is way above most of the coaches, let alone T-Jack, which should help with audibles etc.

Outside of that, I don’t see him as this grand master that took a completely crappy team and carried them on his shoulders. In fact, there is likely more evidence of the opposite and that a good team is making it possible for someone with a lot of knowledge, a good arm and turtle like reflexes to excel in the NFL.

by VikesSince85 on Aug 4, 2010 5:22 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Injuries

The Vikings were very healthy last season. Stuff like that doesn’t happen in the NFL. Last year was the Vikes year and they blew it. It’s a stretch to think the stars will align a second time.

by Big10freak on Aug 4, 2010 6:25 PM CDT reply actions  

Healthy?

Say that to the heart of our defense, EJ Henderson. His injury really affected our defense down the stretch.

by Eric J. Thompson on Aug 4, 2010 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

And Hutch, Winfield, Herrera were hurt too

but EJ was devastating.

"Whoever said that the pen is mightier than the sword never encountered automatic weapons."

The Daily Norseman The Rivalry, Esq. SB Nation Minnesota

by Ted Glover on Aug 4, 2010 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

hey i like the vikings and think they’re a great quarterback away from a title. but this is ridiculous. man the fuck up already, brett. you either in or you’re out. you cannot play forever, that is for sure. everything has a beginning and an end. everything. hopefully very soon you will realize this, and let it go. just let it go.

"the man who created a legend; the legend who resurrected a franchise."

by chaucer on Aug 4, 2010 9:32 PM CDT reply actions  

And the Bills are about 5 QB’s away from a title relax man favre’s are QB and he has earned the right to do what ever he wants that means take as much time as he needs got IT!!!

by cali viking on Aug 4, 2010 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's not about the money, but

Last year Eli Manning made 19,500,000.00 in salary. Mathew Sheppard (of the Detroit Lions) made 26,900,000.00

Pay the most exciting quarterback in football,, Brett Favre, his 20,000,000.00 and see what happens.

Vikings + Favre = Super Bowl

by JethroBoViking on Aug 4, 2010 10:16 PM CDT reply actions  

Super bowl?

Not if he’s running to his right and decides to throw cross field again.
He’s a great QB who can make the most bone head decisions imaginable.

Expectations don't produce!

by 2manyears on Aug 5, 2010 7:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Should have been able to make that throw

He was injured in that shoulder. He had been on the sideline, flexing his arms and going through the throwing motion to see if he could go back out, it seemed good. What he didn’t do was a cross-body swing. When he went back out, all seemed well, he was hitting his targets, the arm looked ok. Then that last play he had to throw cross-body and I think it’s a throw he normally could have easily made. I think that’s when the shoulder betrayed him and he pulled short, probably from pain.

I wouldn’t call what happened, “boneheaded”. Overly-optimistic, yes, but in his position, he had every fair expectation to be able to continue to play, the need to make a cross-body throw doesn’t happen very often. When you’re on the final drive in the closing seconds of the NFC CG, you try to do whatever it takes to win. I give Favre huge credit for trying, despite being injured in his throwing shoulder and his anke (which prohibited his ability to twist and pivot). It’s not like we had a young Peyton Manning waiting in the wings to take over if he took a break.

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Aug 5, 2010 8:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

Heck yeah, SUPER BOWL!

I guess you forgot that that was Favre’s first year with the Vikings. Who wasn’t surprised that it worked so well and they were winning games early in the season? No telling what 2010 might bring, after having a full season under their belts. I think it will be even better.

And about that Saints game. There were plenty of “what if’s” in that game. 12 man huddle, Peterson fumbles, penalties not called against the Saints, etc. It may have been “bone headed”, but I have heard that, for whatever reason, Favre thought Rice would cut back toward him for the catch.

The Vikings were the best team of the 2009 – 2010 season. I doesn’t matter if they didn’t win the championship. Everyone knows they should have.

by JethroBoViking on Aug 5, 2010 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just like his honesty

sometimes his warrior mentality serves him and the team well sometimes not so much.

by KC612 on Aug 5, 2010 9:45 AM CDT reply actions  

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