Blowing Up the Green Bay Pre-Season Coronation--Update, Defense Added
by Ted Glover on Aug 9, 2010 9:42 PM CDT
in Minnesota Vikings
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Wow, riveting Hall of Fame Game, wasn’t it? Why yes that was, in fact, sarcasm. It seems that everywhere you look, most everybody is picking the Green Bay Packers to either win the NFC North, the Conference, and the Super Bowl. Hey, everyone has a right to their opinion, regardless of how misguided it is. I wanted to figure out why they think that. So, I’ve decided to look at each position on all the NFC North teams, contrast and compare, and try to assign a point value to each. 4 points goes to the best player or unit in the division, 3 points for second best, etc. From there, I’m going to add them up and see if Green Bay really is better than Minnesota. Or Chicago. Ha, I was kidding on that one. There is one big, huge, wildcard in this, and that’s whether or not Brett Favre comes back. I will be up front and say that if he doesn’t, the Vikings are the second best team in the division, and it’s not really debatable. I still think the Vikings will be good, even a playoff team, but they will have a tall order winning the division. Anyways, let’s get on with it. As I rate each position, I’ll put in order the best player or unit from best to worst. At the end, we’ll add up the points and let the chips fall where they may, as the old saying goes.
QB: Brett Favre (4), Aaron Rodgers (3), Jay Cutler (2), Matthew Stafford (1). Most people will think this is a blatant homerism call on my part, but Favre had a better season last year, beat Rodgers twice, and went to the NFC Championship while Rodgers couldn’t get his team out of the Wild Card round. Look, Rodgers will be around a lot longer than Favre, and if he keeps it up, he might even approach or surpass Favre in some passing records. And yes, for the long term, the Packers made the right decision to let go of Favre and move on with Rodgers. Rodgers is a very good QB, but Favre, at age 40, is better. Everybody discounts Favre because of his age, or that he’s one hit away from retirement, but they’ve said that every year. He wins big games (and loses them, to be fair), but Rodgers does not yet have a signature, ‘over the hump’ win. Favre does. For Chicago, Jay Cutler will be better simply because he can’t be any worse. It will be interesting to see if offensive line coach Mike Tice can produce a line that can protect Cutler long enough to let those deep routes that a Mike Martz offense is known for develop, though. Matthew Stafford is the real deal, but is only in his second year.
RB: Adrian Peterson (4), Ryan Grant (3), Matt Forte/Chester Taylor (2), Jahvid Best (1). Is this really even debatable? No, it really isn’t. Ryan Grant is a good back, but would he have had 1,300 yards behind the Vikings line last season? No. The Bears offensive line was abysmal last season, which contributed to the suckitude of the Bears running game. Chester Taylor will be a good complement, but they are still the third best running game in the division. I think the Lions running game, behind Jahvid Best, will be better than Chicago’s at the end of the season, but Best has to prove it first. And he has to stay healthy.
WR: Minnesota (4), Green Bay (3), Detroit (2), Chicago (1). Green Bay has very good receivers in Donald Driver and Greg Jennings. Both Driver and Jennings had 1,000 yards receiving, and averaged over 15 yards a catch. However, Sidney Rice is the best WR on either team, and the Vikings have more depth, with Rice, Percy Harvin, and Bernard Berrian. Remember, Berrian was the marquee free agent signee for the Vikings in 2008, and by 2009 he was the #3 receiver. That was partly due to injury, and he is healthy now, and if you had to pick your #3 receiver, who would it be: Berrian, James Jones, or Jordy Nelson? If you add in the multi-dimensional threat that Harvin brings, it pushes the needle a little bit more in Minnesota’s direction.
TE: Green Bay (4), Minnesota (3), Chicago (2), Detroit (1). Jermichael Finley had a breakout season in 2009, and his coming out was in Minnesota, ironically. Finley can play the middle of the field as well as anyone, and can beat linebackers like a stepchild. Visanthe Shiancoe has come a long way in Minnesota, from a guy who couldn’t catch a cold to arguably Minnesota’s most reliable red zone threat. Greg Olsen had a good year for Chicago, but I still think he’s a step behind both Green Bay and Minnesota, and admittedly, that’s due to the quarterback play. When you add in the reliance on wide receivers in a Mike Martz offense, Olsen’s production might go down even more.
OL: Minnesota (3.5), Green Bay (3.5), Chicago (2), Detroit (1). Quite frankly, both Minnesota’s and Green Bay’s lines were flawed in 2009. The Vikings played, from left to right, and underachiever, an injured Pro Bowler, a first year starter replacing an all-decade player, an injured journeyman, and a rookie. Green Bay had issues on the line for most of the year, between injuries and guys playing out of position. Green Bay’s line got better as the season progressed, but regressed during their playoff loss to Arizona. That said, they still allowed enough time for Aaron Rodgers to light up Arizona’s defense. For all the issues the Vikings had, they managed to play middle of the road statistically, and were pretty decent in the post season. Favre took a beating in the NFC championship, but that was just as much from late hits and dirty play than poor pass blocking. Green Bay addressed their issues (hopefully) by using their first round pick on OT Brian Bulaga. The Vikings drafted Chris DeGeare, and early reports are encouraging. I would say that all things being equal and everyone is healthy, the Vikings have a marginally better offensive line, but not by much. Hutchinson is older, McKinnie is still more worried about nightlife than blocking, and the right side of the line is young, if talented. Green Bay is getting younger, but still have a lot to prove for 2010. Chicago is a mess, but they hired Mike Tice as their offensive line coach. Say what you want, but Tice was generally considered the best offensive line coach in the NFL when the Vikings promoted him to head coach in 2001, and he made a collection of journeymen and reserves a decent group.
So offensively, we have Minnesota with 18.5 points, Green Bay with 16.5 points, and Chicago and then Detroit. Green Bay’s offense is potent, but Minnesota’s is better. They have a good young QB, we have a Hall of Famer. They have a good back in Ryan Grant, we have the best RB in football. They have very good receivers, we have the best receiver in the NFC North and the returning rookie of the year. Green Bay is a very good team, but Minnesota is just a bit better, at least offensively.
Tomorrow, the defense.
DL: Minnesota (4), Chicago (3), Green Bay (2), Detroit (1). When you have three All Pro’s and a 9 sack guy on your defensive line, you win this debate. When you factor in the addition of Julius Peppers in Chicago and the subtraction of Johnny Jolly in Green Bay, I put Green Bay behind Chicago. If that doesn’t convince you, who would you rather have on your line, Ryan Pickett or Tommie Harris? It’s a but unfair to compare a 3-4 line to a 4-3 line, but Green Bay’s defensive line has no one that you must game plan for, and Chicago’s does.
LB: Green Bay (4), Minnesota (3), Chicago (2), Detroit (1). Clay Matthews is a difference maker, and is the best playmaker of a solid corps. AJ Hawk has been a disappointment, but Nick Barnett is a solid player. The departure of Aaron Kampmann brings an opening, and you might argue that a pure 3-4 LB who can pass defend might actually be an upgrade over Kampmann, who was playing out of position as a rush defensive end asked to play pass defense. For the Vikings, Chad Greenway is one of the mnore under rated players in the NFC. He is a solid tackler, doesn’t blow gap assignments, but is average on pass defense. Ben Leber is better at defending the pass, but isn’t as good as Greenway at tackling in the open field. The key here is EJ Henderson. If he can come back, the Vikings LB corps will be a strength. If not, it will be just a little above average. For the Bears, there’s Lance Briggs and question marks. Brian Urlacher is coming off another injury, like Henderson, but the Bears don’t have the depth.
DB: Green Bay (4), Minnesota (3), Chicago (2), Detroit (1). This was the strong point of the Packers last year, and the Achilles heel for the Vikings. I love Antoine Winfield, and pound for pound he’s the best tackler in the NFL, but he’s not as good in coverage as Charles Woodson, who has had a career revival in Green Bay. Al Harris and Cedric Griffin are a push at this point, as both are coming back from ACL injuries. I would take Atari Bigby on the Vikings over Tyrell Johnson and not look back, but if there is an advantage that the Vikings may have, it might be depth. Minnesota signed Lito Sheppard and drafted Chris Cook, and those additions might help close the gap with the Packers here, but Green Bay wins this category. Chicago? They are dealing with age and injuries throughout their defense, and particularly the secondary. With no high draft picks to help out due to the Cutler trade, it will get worse before it gets better in Chicago.
ST: Minnesota (4), Chicago (3), Green Bay (2), Detroit (1). The Vikings have the best kicker and kick returner in the division. Their kick and punt coverage improved dramatically in 2009, and punter Chris Kluwe is good enough. I’ll take Robbie Gould and his ability to kick in Soldier Field, over Mason Crosby and his inability to make a makeable kick. What happened to Devin Hester, the exciting kick and punt returner for the Bears? He still wears the uniform, but he’s dropped off the map, and his title has been replaced by Percy Harvin.
So, let’s add it all up. I show the Vikings with 32.5 points, the Packers with 28.5 points, and the Bears and Lions a distant third and fourth.
The point of this column isn’t to say that Green Bay stinks. On the contrary, they’re a very good football team that will be a serious contender for the division title. But Minnesota is still a little bit better, and until the Packers can beat Minnesota on the field and take the title from them, the Vikings are still the team to beat, regardless of what experts say.
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pretty solid analysis.
Frankly, I’d probably call the QB and WR spots a 3.5 push both ways, and then it ends in a tie-ouch-. Of course that may be a bit of a homer call, but I have to admit everything else seems pretty fair and spot on.
The time for reckoning has come, and we already have the answer
No reason
Is there really any reason to play all of the games this season in the NFL? According to the experts at ESPN, SI and the other “talking head” sites covering the NFL seem to have it all figured out. Why not just have a two team playoff between Dallas and Green Bay and then crown whoever wins as the Super Bowl champion? The other 30 teams should just forget it.
I am anxiously waiting more “predictions” from the likes of Adam Schefter; he was so right on last year.
haha, I like that plan.
Does that mean the Jets have to get automatically crowned the loser, or do they have to play peyton and the colts for the right to that?
The time for reckoning has come, and we already have the answer
Sidney rice is not the best wide receiver in the NFC.
I’d debate that even to the nfc north.
by Vikingsfan17 on Aug 9, 2010 10:16 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Love Sidney...
but need to see more than 1 productive year. Especially IF Brett isnt throwing the ball.
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have"
Thomas Jefferson
by RileysCannibalJct on Aug 9, 2010 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Definitely not better the Larry Fitzgerald, who in my opinion is the best in the NFC. From there, the argument could be made that Jennings, White, Jackson, and Austin are all just as good if not better then Rice.
by packallday555 on Aug 9, 2010 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Rice is better than Jennings, White and Jackson. Take a poll on NFL.com and see that most people would take Rice over Jennings or anyone you mentioned aside from maybe Austin.
Favre, even your agent has had enough. The drunken grillmaster, Buzz Cook, is getting too old for this.
I personally think he needs to have more then one good season before he can be considered better then those guys I mentioned above. That’s just me though.
by packallday555 on Aug 11, 2010 2:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Rice is young
So I won’t hold it against him that he still has a future. Rice is better than Jennings. Outside the Viking and Packer world if you asked a fan of any other team who they would want between the two it wouldn’t even be close, Rice all the way.
I’ll put it to you this way, replace Jennings with Rice in the GB offence and you have a more explosive passing game. Rice is better and its not just me, its pretty much anyone that isn’t a Packer fan.
Miles Austin had his first breakout season last year and I/most would take him over Jennings also.
Favre, even your agent has had enough. The drunken grillmaster, Buzz Cook, is getting too old for this.
And that’s your opinion. The fact that you feel “most” would pick Rice over Jennings isn’t a very strong argument either. Though I’m sure you don’t need to be told that.
Jennings is young too. He’s been impressive in every one of his seasons, and he also has a future. No matter which way you cut it, he’s been better and more consistent then Rice has. That’s ultimately the point I’m trying to make.
by packallday555 on Aug 11, 2010 2:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Sure
Jennings has had a good QB throwing to him since he has been in the league. Jennings would not fair off as well with a young T.Jack or Gus running the show and his stats/development would have suffered. Rodgers played with worse an o-line than Minny, well the same can be said for the QB situation in Minny before Favre got there and how it affected the WR production.
I know the “most would pick Rice over Jennings” it isn’t the strongest argument because I havent run a poll on an un-biased site. I just beleive that to be the case, not just because Rice is ranked higher than Jenning on most fantasy boards.
Favre, even your agent has had enough. The drunken grillmaster, Buzz Cook, is getting too old for this.
Like I said below, if Berrian can still put up nearly 1,000 with a Gus/Jackson combination, I’m sure Jennings could put up 1,000+. Probably Driver too.
Rodgers played with worse an o-line than Minny, well the same can be said for the QB situation in Minny before Favre got there and how it affected the WR production.
Your OL was better in 2007 and 2008 then it was in 2009, so I don’t really understand this comment.
I know the "most would pick Rice over Jennings" it isn’t the strongest argument because I havent run a poll on an un-biased site. I just beleive that to be the case, not just because Rice is ranked higher than Jenning on most fantasy boards
Even if they did vote for Rice much I still wouldn’t take much into it. I would guess most would just go look at the stats for the two in 2009, and say well, ok I’ll go with Rice.
by packallday555 on Aug 11, 2010 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions
I was talking about
The lack of quality QB play in 2007 & 2008. Thus the output from the WRs suffered. I think a healthy Berrian is better than you do, that is patially why I think he has 964yards with Gus and young T.Jack throwing him the ball. Berrian had 950 yards his last year in Chicago with Orton and maybe a little Grossman throwing him the ball.
Bernard only had 48rec to go with those 964yards so it was more about his yards after the catch, because he is so fast, that led to the yardage total.
With the 2008 Viking QBs maybe Jenning or Driver hit the 1000yard mark, but if any only one of them. No way they both have 1000yard seasons with Gus for 11 games and T.Jack for 5.
Favre, even your agent has had enough. The drunken grillmaster, Buzz Cook, is getting too old for this.
I’m not really that impressed with Berrian, no. Too me, he’s just a guy with blazing speed who will catch a deep ball here or there. Jennings and Driver are both equally as good deep threats if not better, and on top of that they’re better route runners and better after the catch then he is.
by packallday555 on Aug 11, 2010 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions
At this point
If Berrian is healthy you will see he is better after the catch than you think. Almost 1000yards in 2008, when he was healthy on 48 catchs said so. it wasent just deep balls. At this point in Driver’s career he is not as fast as Berrian, with Bernard healthy again. Driver in his prime a different story.
This season will be tell tail for our difference of opinion should be interesting.
Favre, even your agent has had enough. The drunken grillmaster, Buzz Cook, is getting too old for this.
The majority of his YAC in 2008 was him catching a deep ball behind a defender and out running him to the endzone. Jennings and Driver excel at catching passes off of slants, ins, or outs and then making people miss.
by packallday555 on Aug 12, 2010 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions
I watched every game that season
Gus had the one big 99yard pass to Berrian and that was about it. One other of Berrian scores were on a deep pass. He is a good slant receiver and broke some quick slants deep. I think at his point in his career Driver is more of a possesion WR and doesn’t make as many people miss as he use to..
Difference of opinion again we’ll see how it plays out this season. If Brett doesn’t come back take half of my predictions and throw them in the toilet Because I wouldn’t know what to expect.
Favre, even your agent has had enough. The drunken grillmaster, Buzz Cook, is getting too old for this.
Not true
He’s got some moves. He had something like an 75 yard TD against Detroit that he only caught about 5 or 10 yards past the LoS and just blazed his way to the endzone after making a DB miss. He’s shiftier than what people give him credit for, I’ll give him that. He’d make an excellent #2 WR, but he’s not quite at that #1 status yet.
Berrian does more than just blaze..
he also draws BS P.I.s from opposing DBs and gets the refs to throw the flag. We won a couple games, notably the Detroit and Saints game, off huge P.I.s on Berrian.
I mean, honestly, I think he was the WR flagged for most P.I. during his last couple years with Chicago, and then that first in MN. If you tack on that yardage, he probably would’ve been over 1000 for a few seasons. So he’s better than what you and myself give him credit for.
Those games came in
’08, by the way, when Gus was QB.
Imagine having this conversation 11 months ago.
This would not have even been a serious debate. Need at least 1 more good year out of Rice, and another not so great year for Jennings for Rice to move up on him.
Yeah, that’s exactly my feelings on it too. No doubt Rice was tremendous this past season. It doesn’t change the fact that all his other ones were relatively disappointing.
by packallday555 on Aug 13, 2010 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Who
Would you rather have on your team to start next season as your #1 WR? Jennings or Rice? With a little purple dust stating Rice is healthy and ready to go to start the season.
Favre, even your agent has had enough. The drunken grillmaster, Buzz Cook, is getting too old for this.
Rice
If for the age factor only.
by greenbay packers backer on Aug 12, 2010 7:07 AM CDT up reply actions
I would, honestly, take....
…… Jennings. Because Rice ISN’T healthy right now and has struggled through injuries every other year. Not to mention, as 555 has repeatedly stated, Rice has ONE big year to his name so far. Jennings has been more consistant.
More consistant with better QBs and in the league a year longer.
I didn’t say who would you take cut and dry. I said if Rice is healthy, ready to go for the season and thus play a full 16 games, who would you want as your #1WR? Jennings playing a full healthy 16 games as well.
Favre, even your agent has had enough. The drunken grillmaster, Buzz Cook, is getting too old for this.
I’d take the guy that’s 6’4, 200 lbs, regardless of past success.
Jennings career average reception is 16.4, and he has two 1,000 yard seasons under his belt plus a 12 TD campaign in 2007. I’m just not sure he’s a true number one WR. How will Jennings be when Driver finally retires?
It’s easy to get open when you have a 7-time 1,000 yard receiver lining up across from you. Rice is more of a true number one than Jennings in my useless opinion. If he could stay healthy, I don’t think there would be much debate to this.
I will gladly eat crow if Brandon Jones does well for the 49ers in 2010.
by Andrew Davidson on Aug 16, 2010 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Jennings is arguably the best WR that has played for the Packers since Sterling Sharpe (Javon Walker once looked like he would be that guy, but it did not end well).
That’s based mostly on how he played his first 3 seasons though. I didn’t closely watch him playing enough last year to be confident saying much about that period (though I did maybe watch half their games and I don’t recall him looking any different, but I usually wasn’t watching as intentently as I might normally, more in a partying with friends mode)
I'd take
Freeman over Jennings, no?
Favre, even your agent has had enough. The drunken grillmaster, Buzz Cook, is getting too old for this.
Probably not. Freeman had 3 1,000 yard seasons. Jennings already has that in just 4 seasons. Just saying.
by packallday555 on Aug 11, 2010 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn't bother to look up Freeman's stats.
He did burn the Vikes a good many times and was on the SB winning team as the #1WR. Jennings should easily have better career #s for sure. 61 career TDs not bad for Freeman though.
Favre, even your agent has had enough. The drunken grillmaster, Buzz Cook, is getting too old for this.
Jennings has only had two 1,000 yard seasons, not three; 920 yards is not 1,000 yards.
I will gladly eat crow if Brandon Jones does well for the 49ers in 2010.
by Andrew Davidson on Aug 16, 2010 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions
um?
Donald Driver maybe? I mean to say Jennings is the best since Sharpe without even acknowledging Driver is irresponsible.
I will gladly eat crow if Brandon Jones does well for the 49ers in 2010.
by Andrew Davidson on Aug 16, 2010 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Totally disagree
Other teams blogs when they talk recievers usually start with the Packers.
Who cares
He has emerged and ain’t looking back.
Favre, even your agent has had enough. The drunken grillmaster, Buzz Cook, is getting too old for this.
true
I’m just hoping Rice is not another Moss….(still have nightmares about Moss and endzone!)
by greenbay packers backer on Aug 12, 2010 7:40 AM CDT up reply actions
No, it can't
Austin isn’t struggling with injuries. Rice has been hurt half the time he’s been in the league it seems. Not to mention the QB differences. I will take Romo over Favre/Jackson. Not for this year, but looking ahead to the future.
Oops, meant to say NFC North. Fixed.
And I’ll have that debate.
"Whoever said that the pen is mightier than the sword never encountered automatic weapons."
Sidney has more talent and potential.
But Greg Jennings is the best receiver in the NFC north. He has had several highly productive seasons, compared to one of Rice’s.
by Vikingsfan17 on Aug 10, 2010 10:23 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Calvin Johnson
I would have to say, Calvin Johnson is the best receiver in the NFC North, with Jennings a clear 2nd.
by PURPLEPUSSYEATER on Aug 10, 2010 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Your probably right. I’m not sure how I forgot about him.
by packallday555 on Aug 11, 2010 2:02 AM CDT up reply actions
I'll 100% agree with that notion
In one year, when cj starts playing like a big boy. He clearly is the most talented
by Vikingsfan17 on Aug 11, 2010 11:08 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Favre would have like 3 more Ints and 3 less TDs if it weren't for Rice's skill
I remember on several red zone occasions Favre throwing into coverage and Rice reaching over the defender turning what should have been an easy interception into a highlight reel TD. With that said, he is not the best in the NFC and it would be tough to say he is better than Jennings and Megatron. Give Calvin Johnson a Brett Favre for QB and see what happens.
+infinity to the CJ comment
This man puts up amazing numbers with absolute garbage at the QB position. If he had been drafted by a competant team that would actually have TRIED to succeed during his first few years in the league, the man would possibly be the next Randy Moss.
you know favre was doing that on purpose right? there is all sorts of sideline footage out there in games where favre is miked up where he’s talking with childress and rice that he thinks they should let him just throw up for grabs to Rice because he’s very confident he’ll be able to get it. I think Favre said something like “they can’t cover him. how they gonna cover him? Bump, whatever, it don’t matter, they can’t cover him.”
So … is it really fair to say Favre would have had 3 more INT without Rice, if the balls he was throwing to Rice, were balls he would have never thrown if it was anyone but Rice???
If 'if's and 'but's were candies and nuts, we'd all have a merry christmas
+4 It’s a BS arguement. Fact of the matter is, Favre knows what he’s doing. He KNOWS how to throw a ball where his WR is going to be in position to catch it. If it were Jackson making those throws, I’d be a little more hesitant saying it was on purpose, but this is Favre we’re talking about. Who cares if it WOULD HAVE BEEN and int. It wasn’t. It was a TD.
calvin johnson.
"Brian Cardinal left Purdue being the only Boilermaker to receive both the "Mr. Hustle" Award and the "Courage" Award four years in a row"
one season
You can’t put him first after one season and even after another he’s NO where near as good as Calvin Johnson. Sorry that is just complete bias. I don’t know that he’s better than Jennings either but that is up for debate.
Pretty fair analysis. Though if we’re going to call the OL a 3.5-3.5, I think the Qb and Wr positions should be as well.
Really though, I’d be fine with Favre receiving 4 points to Rodgers 3. I think physically Rodgers is better then Favre by a bit. Bigger arm, and better accuracy in my opinion. Favre has the intangibles that Rodgers doesn’t though, and often times those intangibles play a big part in games.
Rice having one good season hardly compares to the 3 good years Jennings has had. His hip injury has to be taken into account too, as he has struggled with injuries his entire career. I’d take Driver over Harvin any day as well, as he’s had what now, 7-8 consecutive 1,000 yard seasons. He still hasn’t shown any signs of slowing down either, otherwise I doubt we would have given him a 2 year extension. Both probably saw half as many opportunities that Berrian had, and both too me, looked equal if not better then Berrian did in those opportunities. I think having one more quality receivers gives us the advantage.
I’d go Vikings
Not that the VIkings #4 is anything to write about
but Jordy Nelson? One could argue you need four receivers beacuse three can’t handle the job adequately. Very debatable argument, I know, but your #3 and 4 guys just don’t impress me.
"Whoever said that the pen is mightier than the sword never encountered automatic weapons."
One could argue you need four receivers beacuse three can’t handle the job adequately.
Interesting. I strongly disagree with this but we all have our opinions. I think both Jones and Nelson would be just fine as second receiver’s. Both have done some pretty good things in their limited opportunities.
by packallday555 on Aug 9, 2010 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Funny
Shank’s 11td season didn’t affect anyone. Oh wait maybe the WRs get a few more TDs if Shank doesn’t light it up in the redzone. I’d take Shiancoe over Finley any day! Harvin over Driver. Yes Driver has put up good #s, but Percy has more talent than Driver ever has and the potential to be much better.
packallday555 – Rice was injured or had Gus or young T.Jack throwing him the ball his first 2 years. How would Driver and Jennings had faired coming into the league with either of those two and not Favre throwing them the ball? Rice also has a future that could easily be brighter than Jennings, I’d bet on it. The Vikings have the better WRs. Last year Favre was better than Rodgers and beat him twice to prove it.
Favre, even your agent has had enough. The drunken grillmaster, Buzz Cook, is getting too old for this.
I’d take Shiancoe over Finley any day!
I guess it’s your opinion but it terms of talent and potential (which you seem to value looking at your opinion of Harvin vs. Driver) it’s not even really close. Shiancoe isn’t the threat all over the field that Finley is.
I’d guess both still would have been 1,000 yard guys. Both are much better then Berrian, who put up 964 yards in that 2008 season with Jackson and Gus.
You can definitely see the athleticism that Rice contains so I wouldn’t doubt him having a bright future. Though he still needs to prove he can stay healthy (which may be in doubt right now).
Last year Favre was better than Rodgers and beat him twice to prove it.
I’d call it even but whatever. Rodgers didn’t have a Rb to take the focus of the passing game like Favre did, which is surely an advantage. He also didn’t have as stable of an OL either. I think because of those two things Rodgers season was more impressive but like I said before, whatever.
by packallday555 on Aug 11, 2010 2:29 AM CDT up reply actions
HMMM
Shank is a better blocker than Finley, runs a sub 4.5 40yard dash(just saying he is as fast as Finley) and is a better proven red zone threat having scored 11TDs last year.
Shank has had the 3rd most TD receptions of anyone in the league over the past two seasons. Yeah didn’t think you knew that. So I’ll take him.
Results matter. Favre beat Rodgers twice and got further in the playoffs. They both put up MVP like #s in the regular season, so the head to heads and playoff success tip the scales in Favre’s favor.
He might have been playing in a familiar system, but with all new players to adjust to he had to make the adjustment. Rodgers had already played with Driver and Jennings for two years. Rodgers got sacked 50 times and that isn’t all on the line. He holds onto the ball too long.
Rodgers played good against the Vikings, but Favre was great and did outperform Rodgers when they played in both games.
Favre, even your agent has had enough. The drunken grillmaster, Buzz Cook, is getting too old for this.
When Rodgers took over
He stepped in with 2 established WRs that he had worked with and knew well.
Favre stepped in with all new WRs. Two young guys with hardly any experience in Rice and Harvin and last years #1WRBerrian bothered by hamstring problems for the first 3/4 of the season. I think because of that I give Favre the edge, but “whatever”.
Favre, even your agent has had enough. The drunken grillmaster, Buzz Cook, is getting too old for this.
Who knows whether or not he’ll be a better blocker this season. You have to keep in mind that last season was the first time Finley really saw the field. My guess would be he’ll be improved as far as blocking goes.
I’ll say it again, Finley is more physically talented then Shiancoe. And to take a page out of your book, it’s not just me who thinks it. Quite a few Vikings fans have agreed on this thread. Finley may very well become a dominant player similar to the likes of Clark, Gates, or Gonzalez. I know that’s a bold statement but if sit down and watch the guy play it really isn’t. As long he is out there on the field he is going to dominate. He’s simply to skilled and versatile not too.
I’m not going to have the Favre-Rodgers debate. I’ve done it way too many times before. Really, you could go with either one and be just fine. I guess that’s how I ultimately feel about it.
by packallday555 on Aug 11, 2010 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Finley
Admittedly I do think Finley has the potential to be a top 5 tight end. I would just like to see a full season out of him first. I’m probably willing to take him in fantasy if he slips a bit. 6th round in 12 man league and I’d be happy. It would take a few oversights for that to happen though.
There is the possibility Shiancoe gets more yards this year. I do get blinded by the the fact he has the 3rd most receiving TDs in the last two years. That is just awesome for a TE. Favre has a year under his belt with Shank so the yards could definetly go up.
If the two both play 16 games(please, please) I see #s like this. I will mix my purple kool-aid with green, half and half for this:
Finley – 81rec, 1101yards, 9TDs, 13.6ypc
Shank – 70rec, 849yards, 13TDs, 12.1ypc
Now before you look and see that I predict Shank will have 150yards more than he ever has consider this;
- Favre is by far the best QB he has ever had and should be better together after a years experience.
- Shank is arguably the Vikes most healthy receiving option right now, so he very well could be relied on more heavily the first few games of the season.
You might think Finley will get more TDs and you could be right. He had 5TDs in 2/3 a season last year so I went with 9TDs. I know he only missed 3 games, but was limited in a few others. I think the TDs are the only debate here. My thinking here is that Rodgers likes to spread the ball around so more than 9-10TDs seems a little high.
Favre/Rodgers
All I have to say is thanks for havin’ a frachise QB for 16 years then stepping right into another one. Must be nice. Prick. I am admittedly envious. Yeah we had C-Pepp for a few years, yeah,…fart.
Favre, even your agent has had enough. The drunken grillmaster, Buzz Cook, is getting too old for this.
Good analysis
I’d agree with that. I’d guess those predictions will turn out pretty close to your numbers too.
by packallday555 on Aug 11, 2010 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions
1,100 yards from a TE?
Is he capable of that? Sure, but with Jennings and Driver, who are both 1,000 yd receivers, I don’t see it.
"Whoever said that the pen is mightier than the sword never encountered automatic weapons."
I see it
After the way he was targeted at the end of last season and the way he is being targeted so far in practices and scrimmages, it’s completely believable.
Really he is probably going to take catches way from Nelson and Jones. He’ll also see lots of short safety valve types catches as well.
by PackApologist on Aug 11, 2010 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, that's a fair assessment
But I’m not sure. Your 4 WR sets are pretty productive for you. I mean, he might, but only if he lines up wide. Is that a possibility?
"Whoever said that the pen is mightier than the sword never encountered automatic weapons."
Sure
Actually one of the most productive modern Packer alignments was five wide. The fab five didn’t make as many appearances last year due to an injury to Brett Swain. So the Pack could still go four wide with Finely and still due some interesting things.
by PackApologist on Aug 11, 2010 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions
If he is healthy a full 16 games then its possible.
Of course there is no way Driver and Jennings both go for 1000yards then. Easily stated.
Favre, even your agent has had enough. The drunken grillmaster, Buzz Cook, is getting too old for this.
The ypc is a bit high, but within reach if
Driver or Jennings miss a few games and Finley doesn’t.
Favre, even your agent has had enough. The drunken grillmaster, Buzz Cook, is getting too old for this.
I’d take Shiancoe over Finley any day!
Wow…are you for REAL?!?! Cause I hear a LOT of talk about how great Finley is and how much other teams envy the kind of player he is…I don’t hear much of that on Shiancoe. I will say this, Childress and the group was right when they stole him from the Giants. I laughed at first but he’s progressed into a very nice TE.
Harvin over Driver. Yes Driver has put up good #s, but Percy has more talent than Driver ever has and the potential to be much better.
Before you start trying to compare potential why don’t you wait until Harvin shows he can be something more than a gimmick or a #3 WR. Driver spent his career against #1 corners, Harvin gets the nickle corner. Its not even close to a comparison at this stage of their careers. Driver wins that hands down.
I like Sidney, I think his future could be VERY bright, but I want to see him do it for more than one year and most certainly without Brett. Brett has made a lot of okay WRs look great before…
The reason I'd take Shank
Is that I havent seen a full season out of Finley yet. Shank had 11TDs and the 3rd most receiving TDs of anyone in the league the past two seasons. The Vikings have one of the best running games in the NFL and good WRs so Shank’s catches/yards arent that high. They could go up substantially if Rice or Harvin miss any time. Shiancoe is also a better blocker than Finley and is in as good shape as anyone in the NFL. Shank has been clocked sub 4.5 in the 40yard dash, so if Finley is any faster its not by much.
We can have this debate when Finley if healthy for a year and plays 16 games. Shiancoe might have had the odd dibilitating injury, but has played 16 games in all his 7 NFL seasons.
I could easily be wrong at the end of the year and if Finley plays 16 games I probably will be. Just give me one full season. I’m on board with Rice and Miles Austin after last year.
Diver has done it over time so I’ll give you that. Buy the same token Harvin is going into his 2nd season so their is a bright future there having won OFFENSIVE ROY! This got started back with me comparing the GB vs MINN WR units. Which is better? It is hard for me to compare a 2nd year guy with a proven vet so I’ll try to hold off for now. It would be nice to see Harvin have a better WR year before in depth comparisons to vets are made.
Sidney is a bit different. Even though he has only had one great season, he has shown “it”. If he is healthy I know what I’m getting out of him.
Favre, even your agent has had enough. The drunken grillmaster, Buzz Cook, is getting too old for this.
ok, so my inability to import a table will hurt me here, but here we go
Rice-Harvin-Berrian: 198 rec, 2720 yds, 18 TD
Jennings-Driver-Jones: 170 rec, 2614 yds, 15 TD
Very comparable numbers, and let us not forget we can spread it four deep with Nelson, who many argue is better than jones at this point. Min #4 WR, Jaymar Johnson at this point. You can really tell me you have a true advantage here.
And we can debate Favre-Rodgers till we’re both blue in the face and get nowhere. But a full point seems a gross overstatement
The time for reckoning has come, and we already have the answer
ps: GB had a higher YPC rating as well, by nearly a yard and a half....
The time for reckoning has come, and we already have the answer
Without a table import, all your information is invalid. :)
Heh, seriously, if you figure out how to import a table, let me know!
On the WRs, your numbers make it pretty clear which group was more productive, and while they weren’t hugely far apart, 21 points is significant and worth the nod.
On the Favre-Rodgers, I’m sticking with Ted’s pick and I’ll take the full point. Yoda proved he can still kick Young Luke Skywalker’s tail. For now.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
They also had
28 less receptions. If you give the Pack-WRs as many receptions as our’s, I bet THEY’D be the ones with an extra 3, if not more, TDs. I think we have a pretty bad-ass combo of WRs, the big go-to-guy (Rice), the speedster to stretch the field (Berrian), and perhaps the prototypical shifty slot reciever (Harvin), but even then I’d still give GBs recievers the nod, even if Jennings is a little over-rated.
with Jordy added in
you get 22 rec, 320 yds, and 2 TD’s
Bringing our line to 192 rec, 2934 yds, 17 TD’s.
198 rec, 2720 yds, 18 TD’s
Pretty useless difference you ask me.
You could argue that grading us with 4 receivers, and you on 3 is unfair, and there is some validity, but our offense utilizes all 4, so taking one out also seems wrong to me.
Suddenly the difference amounts to a tiny hill of beans that no one cares about.
The time for reckoning has come, and we already have the answer
Honestly, I think most people are picking them because
A) Its starting to become a preseason tradition
B) Go against the grain. (GB lost to the Vikings twice)
C) Schedule. Look at the Vikings first 7 games. Then look at the Packers first 7 games. There is a decent chance we’ll be playing catchup midway through the schedule just due to scheduling. The schedule gets a little lighter for us and harder for them down the stretch.
Just to be clear
By the end of the season we’ll lock up the #1 spot and hopefully home field. :D
But, these ANALysts save face if the beginning looks like how they predicted. (For the simple reason that most people don’t remember by the time the end of the season rolls around)
QB. Aaron over Brett , Then Stafford over Cutler . I’ve said for some time that Aaron will truely break out in 2010 baring injury . And that time is coming . After schedule review . I see us going back to some power running . Yes . Big game and playoff-wise Brett far out weighs . But as he shakes the rust off in the first seven games . It will . In an overall analysis give AR the edge . Hate me . Or love me . It’s an opinion I hope to be wrong with assured . Stafford like Rodgers will be coming out of the closet this Fall . DET has a WR corp . The team did more that find a line coach . And play castoff backups and over journeyed journymen .
RB. AP , Best , Grant , Martz . We will start with Best over Grant . A weak schedule . And GB’s 50-50% Run/pass attack will favor the flashy kid . Grant is a Top eight back mind you . But balance in thier offense warrents my pick . Martz runs 15 plays a game . Ya they will catch out of the backfield . But Forte in a younger version of Chester and they will crowd each others numbers .
WR. GB barely . MIN , DET , the other team without real WR’s . We all like to say experience out weighs potential when it suits us . The weak 2/yr extension marks the turning point of what won’t soon be GB’s real strength anymore .
TE. MIN , then a tie across the board . Shiancoe’s production . Sausser and Tahi’s firm roles . This is the second year for Brett in the system It will be magical . He told Shiancoe he may not be coming back personally . A great motivater as to who Brett will have his eye on in the Redzone . The other three have a great Core . Can they be a World Champion Core . I doudt it . Note : Havner’s crash will be GB’s crash in avoiding a certain little sweep .
OL. MIN , GB , CHI , DET . We return all starters . Enough said . I predicted before that Bulaga could never beat out Clifton . Even in his dreams . But six weeks n in he will be carrying the load as Clifton’s back can only hold so much for painkillers . He robbed GB with his extension and I’ll give him the nod on that basis alone . Tice gets third . And as DET focused on Defense and skill positions in the draft . They will put Stafford out at least 5 times before years end . Even out he will out produce Jay "I need nightvision goggles " Cutlet .
Special Teams . MIN , CHI , DET , GB . So much focus and young talent . Who goes after a K/O specialist anyway ? Not Hester but Gould . Anyone but GBwith their tight pocket book when it comes to the one position to get them over the hump .
In review : I feel the layout of our schedule . Minus the obvious help they gave GB before the Lamo matchup . Is designed to maximize T.V. time and send us steamrolling well into February !!! SKOL
A lot to pick apart . Huhhhh…
Rodgers takes too many sacks
You can blame the line, and they certainly didn’t play well, but lots of sacks last year were on Rodgers and his inability to get the ball out. I would wager at least 1/4 of his sacks last season were because he held the ball too long.
He’s always going to take more sacks than he should and that is going to, not only hurt his team in the short term, but probably shorten his career. I give him 3-4 years tops before regular injuries start to become a major problem. But it just takes one bad hit this year to set that timetable up considerably.
As for WR, I have to disagree. It’s been true for years that the Packers are deep at WR and Driver has been productive far longer than most expected. But I just don’t see it anymore. Driver is 35 years old and think it will finally catch up to him this year. Meanwhile, Harvin is 22, Rice is 23 and Berrian is 29. Three deep and less potential drop off in production gives the Vikings the edge IMO. And that’s not even mentioning all the things that Harvin can do scheme-wise to give DC’s nightmares.
I can't aargue against Brett . I feel Aaron will develope better 2 minute drills . His pre-season lack of success is all you realy needed to say to toss my lame ass predictions out to the curb !!!
Yes . A pick your poison Offense for sure . But quite productive . Sacks included . Yes . You can blame the lack of toughness and cohesiveness of the line compared to the Talent facing them from across the line of scrimmage ! Brett and Donald always prove your theories wrong every year . I warned that it only suits you when it works out in your favor . Until a decline is drastically shown . You are blowin’ smoke up the wrong pipe ? Harvin had eight touches last year between spec. teams and WR . Until that picks up your theories are in a holding pattern . We have greater talent . More dynamic players . Much more future potential . Potential doesn’t win Championships . Proven production does ? They do have that for a little while longer .
by gothicpurple on Aug 10, 2010 12:48 AM CDT up reply actions
As a Lions fan
On paper, I like your analysis better. But until the Lions prove it on the field, I reluctantly have to agree with Ted Glovers post
In life, a man is either the hammer or the anvil. Ndamukong Suh is both
Pride of Detroits village idiot
Hey, if I had to choose between cheering for the Bears or Lions
I’d cheer for Detroit. You have a great nucleus of young talent, it’s just unproven. Stafford seems like he’s legit, and once he matures Calvin Johnsonw will be terrifying. Matt Millen’s problem was that he went for the sexy skill player in the draft, and Jim Schwarts realizes that to win you start at the lines and move outward. He’s doing that, and it’s going to pay dividends. I think the Lions are still a year or two away, but they’re definitely headed in the right direction.
Chicago? A little too old, and no way to replenish the roster until next year. By then, both lines will be a lot worse off, and there will be too many holes to fill that one draft can replace. They still need a playmaker WR, a #1 RB, linebacker and secondary help as well. Add to that some heavy contracts on the books for Peppers, Cutler, and Chester Taylor, and depending on what the new collective bargaining agreement is, the Bears might be handcuffed in free agency as well.
No, the Lions are the future of this division, and the Bears are close to full rebuilding as they move past the Urlacher era.
"Whoever said that the pen is mightier than the sword never encountered automatic weapons."
If I came across as knocking your post
that was not my intention and I’m sorry if I did come across that way. I think it’s a great post.
As for this season in the NFC North, it is pretty much down to Minny and GB with the edge to the Vikes.
I agree 100% with what you said about the Lions up in the post and with your comment, I’m just a very poor and slow typer so thats why all my comments are short.
In life, a man is either the hammer or the anvil. Ndamukong Suh is both
Pride of Detroits village idiot
You didn't, not at all
I agree with what you said. I think the Lions have a great nucleus of young talent, but it’s unproven. They have the potential for the 21st century Triplets, like the Cowboys of the 1990’s, an improving offensive line, and a defensive tackle that seems like he will be an enormopus pain in my ass as a Vikings fan for the next decade, lol.
I’d like to see Detroit have some success. It’s a good fanbase and a town that’s had their teeth kicked in.
"Whoever said that the pen is mightier than the sword never encountered automatic weapons."
Defensive lines
I disagree with your ratings. I think that the Lions are at least 3rd best, if not 2nd. With Suh, Corey Williams and Vanden Bosch, I’d take their line over the Bears or Packers personally.
by Cobra312004 on Aug 12, 2010 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Better than last year but
Vanden Bosch 3 1/2 sacks last year, 32 years old downside of his career only twice in career double digit sacks. Corey Williams Packers let him go certainly wouldn’t start for them now. Shuh Rookie Unknown Arvil could become a player. Doesn’t sound like a great line to me.
Last year I compared CHI's Defensive players ages to ours . Pre-Peppers mind you .
Almost identical . I was shocked .
by gothicpurple on Aug 10, 2010 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions
WOW...
I agree with you completely on the order for each of those positions.
Honestly I take Best over Grant too. While I think Grant is servicable, I think Best has the potential to be a top notch guy. It might be a BIT premature but I won’t dock ya for it…
Hey Ted................
Finley is a head case and a chump…………………………………
I totally disagree with your high rating of him.
OK Ted now to the one that blew my mind…………………………
You stated that Rodgers could pass Favre in some of his records………………..
there is no chance of that period!
Rodgers is an overrated, arrogant, unappreciative punk of a QB…………………….
get that straight, please.
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
Ya , but you have to love how he drilled Clay Mathews the Turd in to the ground last week to set off the fights !
All of a sudden he gets a Hammie ? Two or three week rest ? Right out of Brett’s book . Half GB’s on temporary leave .
by gothicpurple on Aug 9, 2010 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions
None of that has anything to do with the thread. Why must you always change the subject?
by packallday555 on Aug 9, 2010 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Hmm pack
Don’t mean to go against you here…
But…. We’re talking about something that happened in pre-season
When the title of the thread clearly states.. Blowing up the Green Bay Pre-season..
Just by looking at his post and the title, you think they’d be related.
And if anything…….. You think gothic would be praising Rodgers for his actions..
More so then anything else though, this thread is about what teams have the best talent position by position.
None of what gothic said has to do with any of that.
by packallday555 on Aug 10, 2010 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions
De is thin with your team . You have stated it in the recent past . The Scout.com post was mentioning blowing up the pre-season .
You classified Finley as a WR a few days ago ? I feel that a great depth position for you is now a good one only . When I graded 1 to 4 . I followed the criteria . All four teams have advanced TE positions in comparison to the league . It didn’t reflect . Based on the criteria .
EX : If asked the top defenses ? NYJ ,MIN , BAL , GB is my starting order . Is that a poor reflection to sit at #4 with the company . Or coming from a Vike fan ?
I know I rattled you with the 15 GB questions you couldn’t find the time to answer . The others you replied to took obvious thought and a twist of frustration . Thanks for the attempt . I deliberately posted the 15 on a post that would soon close . You felt backed in a corner and conceded the defeat without even defending your teams honor . Or your own . Honor means less to me than the truth . Some day you will trust this site to allow you to have imediate reflection on hot topic questions . Grimes showed me why he hesitates on opposing sites . Half ass interaction with double standards is better . For him . Then no interaction . In hindsight he was not a wimp or suck up . Just a victom of the bulling that goes on openly by Editors at various SB Nation site . Including Here . Right Ted and LLV ??? Subtle or overt they serve the same master . I’m not trying to suck you in . I simply want DN Editors to begin to admit that awareness begins with self-evaluation and inner policing . —-Offer your in depth view as I did . Ya I could have been more specific but I wasn’t asked to in the criteria . Have an opinion guy ! It’s only pre-season what are you scared of ???
Yes this is all relevant to the Title . Why ? To blow up your pre-season we Vike fans need to ramp up are Swagger with GB fans on this site . The breast feeding is nearly at it’s end . It’s time to burp the baby .
Come to this site and back down from Packer questions and I’ll need to bounce you on my little knee . And help you get those mean , nasty bubbles to come out and go away .
-
by gothicpurple on Aug 10, 2010 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions
If asked the top 4 defenses you’d list GB as the 4th best? Ha! I’d love if that were true but trust me, it’s not. Anyone else care to chime in on who they’d list as their top 4 defenses?
I didn’t say Finley was a WR, I said he can be and is often used like one. There you go twisting my words again..
I didn’t answer those questions for three reasons. Firstly, I have answered many off them for you before. Secondly, many of them were based off of certain conspiracy theories that you’ve created regarding the Packers organization. Thirdly, this is a Vikings blog. I’ve been told before to not bring up the Packers so much.
Me not answering those questions had nothing to do with me being “scared” or “not having an opinion”. I offered my opinion to Ted regarding his Wr rankings as well as Qb rankings didn’t I? I think I offer my opinions on this site quite often actually.
by packallday555 on Aug 10, 2010 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Defenses are tough to peg from year to year
Minnesota has actually been an exception as opposed to the rule. With free agency, defenses ebb and flow. If you put a gun to my head and say pick, I’ll spitball the Vikes, Jets, Ravens, and Cowboys.
"Whoever said that the pen is mightier than the sword never encountered automatic weapons."
And that's no particular order
"Whoever said that the pen is mightier than the sword never encountered automatic weapons."
That seems like a good list too me. I think the Steelers could be in the mix too, assuming Polamalu stays healthy this season.
by packallday555 on Aug 11, 2010 1:51 AM CDT up reply actions
No doubt
It was shocking to see how fast the Steelers D crumbled without him in it.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
I wasn't surprised
He’s HUGE for that defense. All over the place. He covered up alot of their weaknesses.
Why do you keep mentioning my name you tool?
does your envy never let up?
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Just get used to haha. I swear he mentions 555 in ever one of his posts too.
by packallday555 on Aug 11, 2010 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Finley is a head case and a chump…………………………………
I totally disagree with your high rating of him
Finley definitely isn’t the sharpest tool in the box but that doesn’t take away from the fact that he’s immensely talented. His combination of size and speed is almost unheard of in the league today. He really was a match up nightmare for teams last season, and I doubt he’s going to shrink in height or lose any of that speed.
Again, this isn’t a rating regarding their personalities or IQ’s. Rodgers is very talented, and at this point probably every bit as talented as Favre or any other Qb in the league. He still has things he needs to work on no doubt but he also is only in his second year playing. Some of the things like getting rid of the ball sooner will undoubtedly improve over time.
by packallday555 on Aug 9, 2010 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Will he have Shiancoe's 10+ TD's is my point . He does have a big future ahead of him
by gothicpurple on Aug 10, 2010 12:50 AM CDT up reply actions
No one doubts Rodgers’ talent, he’s clearly going to be a premier QB in the NFL for years to come. What he lacks in comparison to Favre is the experience, the ability to read and pick apart the opposition (something which comes with time), and likely, the ‘speed of the game’ (which also comes with time).
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
listen up Pack fans
We have a cast off 50 year old QB. With maybe one more tooth in his mouth. We have to have pride in it because next year we go back to the pomeranian.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Yeah, agreed with everything you said.
by packallday555 on Aug 10, 2010 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions
speed of the game… meaning he is a sack machine.
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Aug 13, 2010 1:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Also he'll start making quicker reads as well
I think tha’s something that is causing a couple of these sacks as well. Quicker reads and you can realize you need to dump it off sooner than later
Also, I think a lot of good young QB’s believe that they need to win the game on every throw. They have to realize that sometimes you just can’t make the play and that it doesn’t mean you’re not a good QB.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Exactly, there’s a growing period that every young Qb goes through. It’s probably a pretty safe assumption that as he plays more and more, he’ll be able to diagnose things better and get the ball out quicker because of it.
by packallday555 on Aug 10, 2010 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions
For some reason this doesn't apply to TJ though
because we all know he’s going to suck forever!
Rogerssacks
I thought that problem was fixed wasn’t he only sacked 9 times in the last 7 games and like 41 in the 1st 9. I don’t think it is a issue anymore. Maybe if you looked at the stats at the end of the season without knowing the progression of a season one might assume it is a problem going into this season.
I will admit I know nothing of Finley's personality . I will say he is a young , talented and dynamic piece to your never ending puzzle called Cheesers ...!!
by gothicpurple on Aug 10, 2010 8:45 PM CDT up reply actions
To give you an idea he’s created “TGI Finley’s”. With the “brands” slogan being, “serving defenses since 1987”. As you can see he doesn’t have any self confidence issues…
by packallday555 on Aug 10, 2010 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Haha possibility I guess.
I still think all of you guys grossly exaggerate Rodgers cockiness but it’s not worth getting into an argument about.
by packallday555 on Aug 11, 2010 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions
No we don't!
It was proven on the Homer show, ESPN 540!
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Aug 11, 2010 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions
It’s a matter of opinion. Nothing was “proven” on that show.
by packallday555 on Aug 11, 2010 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh yes it was!
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Aug 12, 2010 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions
For the record, Shiancoe isn’t really the sharpest tool in the shed either. He appeared naked on the evening news, got in a twitter fight, put Sharpers face on Osama Bin Laden and shot at it and took pictures, there was the head butting of Jonathon Joseph during a game, etc. So if we are going to put Finley under the bus for his intelligence we have to go apples to apples too.
Shank was given the target with Sharpers pic on Osamas body
by a soldier and I’m really not sure who took the pics.
Has Matthew Stafford throwing to him
"Whoever said that the pen is mightier than the sword never encountered automatic weapons."
And honestly on WR does not make a team
Chris Carter was amazing but the team didn’t truly go crazy until Randy Moss showed up. We are talking about the entire corpse of receivers and I don’t think you can say that Detroits band of catcher is better than Minnesota or Green Bay’s.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
How did that reply relate to my post?
Hey GP you’re a douche.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Ted, R U OUT OF YOUR MIND????????
“And yes, for the long term, the Packers made the right decision to let go of Favre and move on with Rodgers.”
R U Kidding me with that garbage……………………………
Ted Thompson and Mike McLardy made the worst decision in letting go of the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None in NFL History.
That is a garbage opinion that u have.
Why am I soooooo bitter about this……………….cause I live in Green bay and know the truth.
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
Can’t you ever just realistically look at things? Please?
by packallday555 on Aug 9, 2010 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I am
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Aug 9, 2010 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I always do
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Aug 9, 2010 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Dude
You seriously need to get over your man crush. I get it, Farve is a great player, but you need to see the big picture. Rodgers is the real deal and has 10 years in front of him where Farve has that many and more behind him.
by PackApologist on Aug 9, 2010 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Rodgers is an overrated arrogant unappreciative puk of a QB!
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Aug 9, 2010 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions
to be fair, i'd be a lecher with that chick too.
i’d let her eat oreos in bed, lets put it that way.
I piss people off on a fairly regular basis. I cherish my right to speak my mind, whether I sound like an uneducated savage or not. I've never been accused of keeping what I think a secret, nor will I ever. Don't like it? I don't care.
by IABerserker1 on Aug 10, 2010 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions
and gives the Vikes their best chance to win
I’ll take him.
Favre, even your agent has had enough. The drunken grillmaster, Buzz Cook, is getting too old for this.
Farve is....
Someones retired grandfather mowing his grass!
by greenbay packers backer on Aug 11, 2010 12:59 AM CDT up reply actions
GPB you might want to take that back untill you guys beat the vikes with Favre you might want to be QUIET Oh I forgot your 0 and 2 but I wont tell anyone SKOL VIKES!!
cali viking
Favre ain’t coming back……He has retired twice already and is telling EVERYONE he is retiring a third.
After 19 years in the NFL he finally has an injury he can’t bounce back from, My opinion is that the ankle REALLY must be bad if he even sent a text out about retiring and he gonna sit at home and enjoy his grandkid. He missed so much of his kids life because HE GAVE HIS ALL to the NFL. I don’t think he wants to make that mistake again.
If you gonna be jerk about last year may I remind you, You have been in the league since 1961 and have ZERO championships.
Let’s see who has the most EVER hmmm………..Oh yeah that’s right it’s The Green Bay Packers with TWELVE!!! Maybe that is why Green Bay is called “Titletown” and the Superbowl Trophy is named after a Green Bay Packer??
So until you win a Championship “you might want to be QUIET”
by greenbay packers backer on Aug 11, 2010 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions
GPB well I’m not trying to be a jerk you were the one being a jerk talking shit about Favre so I’m sorry if you got that from me but don’t you think that if Favre were really going to retire for good he would of by now screw the texting that’s just BS! If he was really going to retire he would of already you know it I know it the world knows it! But it’s ok it’s just whishfull thinking on your part I understand your scared because when Favre comes back your chances of winning the north just shrank big time so I don’t blame you for being afraid! And congrats on all your titles that’s really great I’m proud of you guys, but untill you guys take the north you have nothing to say! And if you do beat us this year and take the north I will give you your props but I expect the same so good luck!!!!!
by cali viking on Aug 11, 2010 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions
We have taken the North
Many times….you don’t win it all without taking your division.
by greenbay packers backer on Aug 11, 2010 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions
actually
you can.
I piss people off on a fairly regular basis. I cherish my right to speak my mind, whether I sound like an uneducated savage or not. I've never been accused of keeping what I think a secret, nor will I ever. Don't like it? I don't care.
by IABerserker1 on Aug 13, 2010 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions
greenbay packer backer,
Attention……………………………………….
Favre has outplayed Rodgers and the Packers twice in 2009!
You are the one that needs to be QUITE!
Favre is coming back in 2010 to a repeat performance twice again!
Guaranteed!
Hey keep drinking your TT koolaid, but it won’t make you immune to eating crow by seasons end! Guaranteed!
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Aug 11, 2010 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions
ok!!
Whatever you say……Even Vikings fans are getting sick of you and posts you are like a 12 year old girl obsessed with the latest boy band. So you can have your man crush on Favre and than when he doesn’t come back you can go away and never bother real NFL fans again.
by greenbay packers backer on Aug 11, 2010 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions
And what makes you a real NFL fan and not R4F so just cause he likes Favre means he’s not a real fan! Seems kinda far fetched but hey who am I to judge. I’m sure we all think were real fans so there’s no need for that! If the guy bothers you don’t pay attention simple as that so good luck playing us this year and if you win I’ll be the first to say good game!!!
Good point!!!
ATTENTION EVERYONE!!
FROM THIS DAY FORWARD ALL REVENGE4FAVRE POSTS AND COMMENTS WILL NOW BE IGNORED MY ME.
I WOULD SUGGEST THAT ALL OTHER FOLLOW MY LEAD.
THAT IS ALL.
by greenbay packers backer on Aug 11, 2010 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Real NFL Fan?
I have season tickets to the Packers & the Vikings.
I am not a real fan?
Oh I forgot I’m going to New Orleans on Sept 9th, 2010!
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Aug 11, 2010 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Will you watch football after Favre retires? I’m not trying to poke fun at you either. Honest to God question.
by packallday555 on Aug 11, 2010 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Of Course........................
What a stupid question!
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Aug 11, 2010 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Really cause I wonder the same thing
The other thing I wonder if you are Dan from Appleton who calls WDUZ the Fan all the time.
by PackApologist on Aug 11, 2010 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions
I recall a post a while back some one asked R4F the same question and he said he’s a Vikings fan for life for now on he bleeds purple!!!
Yes I did, you are correct as usual.
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Aug 12, 2010 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not sick of it
I love R4F. I’m tempted to make a new account named REVENGE4REVENGE4FAVRE to show my support.
He is simply misunderstood. Those with a superiority complex seem to butt heads with him, but I really don’t have a problem. Bleeding purple is kin to me.
by Vikingsfan17 on Aug 13, 2010 8:19 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
hmmmmm.....
How many superbowls do you have without Brett Favre and when there were more than 4 teams in the league? Just curious.
hmmmmm......
Winners don’t have a banner that says Division Champs on the top of there blog sight…..They have one that read MOST CHAMPIONSHIPS EVER!!
by greenbay packers backer on Aug 11, 2010 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions
If thats all you can keep saying this is getting old! So GPB the vikes will do there talking on the field when the first ass kicking is over talk to me then and quit living in the 60’s have a good one!!! SKOLLLLLLLL VIKESSSSSSS!!!!!
by cali viking on Aug 11, 2010 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions
fair enough
Quit living in last year than.
by greenbay packers backer on Aug 12, 2010 7:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Living in last year
is all anyone can do right now, because we really only have last year to measure how we might do this year. Living 50 or 60 years ago, though, is absolutely ridiculous. And so is bringing it up. It has absolutely nothing to do with this season.
I believe your answer would be 2. There were much more than 4 teams during the first two super bowls. Since when do ANY super bowls not count toward the count of how many super bowls have you won?
I'm not going to double check your numbers
Since I’m sure you’re correct. Maybe I should have said more than 8 teams in the league instead of 4.
But for greenbay packers backer to come in here all high and mighty about what your team did back before both him and you were born is obsurd.
Also I’m not saying those superbowls don’t count. But the mathematical probility of winning a championship when there are 32 teams compared to say 4, is a big difference. Just saying.
Or lets put it this way, it would have been A LOT more impressive if the packers would have won those championships back then if there were 32 teams in the league.
By the same logic those 49er teams weren't as good
There weren’t 32 teams in the league when Montana won those four SB’s of his. Same thing for most of the Steelers SB’s back in the 70’s. Man those teams were terrible and shouldn’t be remember.
Also the ‘72 Dolphins. They didn’t as many games or teams so that perfect season really shouldn’t count.
by PackApologist on Aug 13, 2010 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Well that also opens up another can of worms
When the 49ers and cowboys were the most successful, the NFL was uncapped, so you had those 2 teams pouring tons of money for talent. So for me that takes a little away. But I’m also saying that because I don’t like either one of those teams…so I’m biased.
So you have 3 solid SB’s with double digit teams in the league. Glad we got that settled.
he must be counting NFL Championships...
we have one of those.
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Aug 13, 2010 1:30 AM CDT up reply actions
hmmmmm....
how many super bowls do you have EVER without any other qualifiers, just EVER including with Favre?
Rodgers needs to get the ball out quicker
Or those 10 years are gonna turn into 5 very quickly. Too many hits will come back to haunt him down the road, just watch.
Dude, it’s his second year actually playing. Favre had issues with his “mental clock” early on too just as almost every Qb does. It’s also pretty telling that his issues with holding onto to the ball virtually disappeared when the OL improved in the second half of the season.
by packallday555 on Aug 10, 2010 7:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Hey honestly if that's the only thing people can bang you on
then feel pretty happy.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Not quite
Rodgers also has a fumbling problem, and they seem to happen in crucial situations. Maybe because he’s kind of seems like a clutz to me. I don’t know. Maybe that’s why he doesn’t take more chances when he’s throwing, because he knows he’ll screw up. Stretch? Maybe, but I don’t really care.
Aside from the Cardinals game what other fumble happened in a “crucial” situation?
I don’t think him fumbling a lot this past season has to do with him being a clutz as much as it has to do with him being constantly hit from his blindside or having the pocket collapse on him two seconds after hiking the ball.
It should also be noted that he only lost 4 fumbles this past season. Too compare, Favre had 2 lost fumbles, Brees had 6 lost fumbles, and Manning had 0 lost fumbles.
Are you jealous that we have a franchise Qb? That’s really the only reason I can come up with for all the hate you give Rodgers. You, R4F, and gothicpurple would probably choose to lie in your death bed before you guys would admit that Rodgers is one of the better Qb’s in this league. It’s kinda silly.
by packallday555 on Aug 11, 2010 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions
After this last season he probably squeeked into the top 10
I’ve said that before. Is that not enough praise for you? You act like he’s Peyton Manning or something. lol.
In regards to your question on the fumbles. The fumble in the 1st Minnesota turned out to be big. Then there was the 2nd “fumble” in the end zone that was overturned to a safety instead.
Even though a majority of his fumbles weren’t lost, some were. And those that weren’t lost, in a majority of the cases lead to bad field position, and possibly being forced to punt the ball to the other team.
In the 2nd game against Minnesota he fumbled, he didn’t lose it but it ended in bad field position (7 yard loss and 3rd and 17) and forced a punting situation on the Vikings 40 yard line. Not as bad as a turnover or a fumble, but you’re still turning the ball over to the other team. And in this case it lead to a 24-3 run by the Vikings.
I’ve said that before. Is that not enough praise for you? You act like he’s Peyton Manning or something. lol.
No, I think it’s more along the lines of you acting like he’s Tavaris Jackson or something.
In regards to your question on the fumbles. The fumble in the 1st Minnesota turned out to be big. Then there was the 2nd "fumble" in the end zone that was overturned to a safety instead.
Weird, he didn’t also happened to get sandwiched by Allen and Edwards on that first fumble did he? And on the second one, the pocket didn’t end up collapsing around him did it?
My point being, the guy was running for his life for most of last season. No, that doesn’t excuse him fumbling the ball but it certainly plays a part in it. If the OL in front of him improves I’d guess his fumbling problem might improve as well. What do you think?
If fumbling and holding onto the ball too long are his biggest problems I think we’re in luck. As he plays more and more his awareness in the pocket will improve, as well as getting the ball out quicker. It’s something that EVERY Qb goes through and has to work at.
by packallday555 on Aug 12, 2010 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions
I think he still struggled with holding onto the ball a bit after Clifton and Tauscher came back but he was MUCH better still. Too me, that’s pretty telling.
Just try and imagine having a horrible OL who can’t even always handle 4 rushers despite having 5 guys. Rodgers went through that EVERY week. When teams are only rushing 3 or 4, dropping 7-8 into coverage, and STILL getting a good pass rush it makes things pretty difficult. I think him holding onto the ball had more to do with people not being open as opposed to him being indecisive. He’s a smart Qb who doesn’t make many stupid throws, so I’m sure he was reluctant at times to throw into double teams.
by packallday555 on Aug 13, 2010 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions
dude...
We hated Favre when he was a Packer…
We’ll hate Rodgers as long as he’s a Packer and when he finally comes to play for us we’ll embrace him as the greatest ever.
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Aug 13, 2010 1:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Noted
Give it a rest, R4F. Favre is great, Rodgers blows, McCarthy and Ted Thompson are the AntiChrist and the False Prophet.
Got it. Over…and over…again.
"Whoever said that the pen is mightier than the sword never encountered automatic weapons."
Brett Favre...
goes back to pass he pumps, now he fires over the middle. Intercepted, I can’t believe what I’m seeing right now. It was intercepted by Tracy Porter, near side to the 40 and John Sullivan runs him down at the 47 yard line. You’ve got to be kidding me, I can’t believe what I just saw. Looking at that play he should have just held on to it Paul, he should’ve. He could’ve easily have gotten 5 or 6 yards if he would have just pulled that thing down and dove forward. But why do you even ponder passing, I mean you can take a knee and try a 56 yard field goal. This is not Detroit man! This is the Super Bowl.
/slams head against wall
/takes a long pull of glenlivet
/curses Drew Pearson
"Whoever said that the pen is mightier than the sword never encountered automatic weapons."
(!**%&^$&^$ Drew Pearson...
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Aug 13, 2010 1:33 AM CDT up reply actions
Hey Chewie I wouldnt talk shit on Favre he use to be your QB Im sure you were not talking shit on him then! Hell I never talked shit on him and Im a Vikings FAN. Iv’e always thought he was great! But untill you guys beat the vikes with Favre at the helm he’s better than Rogers period and if you guys win one talk away but untill then DONT THINK SO!!!!
actually as a packers fan
who has spent his entire life with just favre and rodgers (being 18 is a huge advantage when you never have to worry about bad QB’s) I did a lot of cursing of Favre in my day. It was a straight up Love/Hate right outta the womb. I for one, don’t miss it.
The time for reckoning has come, and we already have the answer
You quit picking on my big brother or I'll......sorry I can't even type in a straight line on that guy . Maybe he ment since his rehab ???
That’s Ted’s rehab for Anger Management ! Oh sorry . Anger Management .
by gothicpurple on Aug 10, 2010 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Rodgers could have waited a couple more years
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
Maybe but that’s not what this thread is intended to be about. So let’s just leave that alone.
by packallday555 on Aug 9, 2010 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions
no sir......................
It was brought up……………….
and I will express my displeasure!
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Aug 9, 2010 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions
actually rodgers only had 1 more year on his contract at the time
and probably would have taken the first steamboat out of town if he’d had too.
The time for reckoning has come, and we already have the answer
wrong........................
Get your facts straight…………………
Rodgers had 2 years left.
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Aug 9, 2010 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions
I was assuming we kept favre for one more season-his jets season.
Of course at this point we’d have played brett clean through rodgers rookie contract. So he’d definitely be out of there
The time for reckoning has come, and we already have the answer
But he wouldn't of stayed
You see dear sir, teams tend to want to evaluate talent around the two year point. Players want to play, especially QB’s. A QB who is willing to ride the pine is a player you don’t want leading your team.
It was time for Rodgers to step up. He did. You need to get over your bitterness, it’s starting to look silly on you.
by PackApologist on Aug 9, 2010 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Silly...................
No Sir…………………..
You are the one that will be eating crow by season’s end. Guaranteed!
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Aug 9, 2010 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions
But that arrogant, unappreciative, punk could not!
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Aug 9, 2010 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Nice analysis. At first glance I would change two things: I would probably put Ryan Grant lower (below Chester at least, and it would not surprise me if he ends up below Best, though I don’t feel comfortable saying it now). And I think I might still give the Packers WR corp a slight edge over Viking’s (i.e. flip that rank). That assumes Driver hasn’t lost a step yet (which may not be too far off, yes it could be this year, and I would flip my ranking back).
The QB rankings , I really don’t know how that will pan out. If I had to say something, I’d call it a tie. Rodgers is maybe better on some pure measurements, but Favre’s ability to read Ds quickly and get rid of the ball give him an edge when they are both behind OL with question marks in them (as both are).
50 sacks.......................
r u also kidding me?????????
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Aug 9, 2010 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Sacks Vs. TD's Vs. Low INT's Vs. Non-post season production is some what valid . Do ya think? Even though all those shots look sweet on the highlight reel .
Someone needs to put all50 together with a really good play selection of say what . About a dozen hits ???
by gothicpurple on Aug 10, 2010 12:59 AM CDT up reply actions
R4F
your kidding me right? Who holds a grudge for 2 years over nothing, which worked out for both Sides??
Can you get ❼ Lebron? Can you get 1 Vikings? 2010 is the year to do it!!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Aug 9, 2010 11:19 PM CDT reply actions
Bullshit!
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Aug 9, 2010 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions
I hold that grudge with honor!
That is who.
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Aug 9, 2010 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Yea sure
throw another tantrums its getting old…
Can you get ❼ Lebron? Can you get 1 Vikings? 2010 is the year to do it!!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Aug 9, 2010 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Old?
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Aug 9, 2010 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Yea I believe the spelling's right.
Can you get ❼ Lebron? Can you get 1 Vikings? 2010 is the year to do it!!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Aug 9, 2010 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions
and kinda like the
Favre “Will I or Want I” saga!
Can you get ❼ Lebron? Can you get 1 Vikings? 2010 is the year to do it!!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Aug 9, 2010 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions
R U Bitter!
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Aug 9, 2010 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions
U R A Favre Hater!
Now I get it.
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Aug 9, 2010 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Sure lets go with that
As long as you STOP with the FAVRE FAVRE FAVRE to you Favre > Vikings … Oh yea now I get it!
Can you get ❼ Lebron? Can you get 1 Vikings? 2010 is the year to do it!!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Aug 9, 2010 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions
I never said that?
Quit puting words in my mouth!
Favre = Vikings
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Aug 9, 2010 11:38 PM CDT up reply actions
No
If that was true would you rant on about Favre 99% of the time and Vikings .5% and hating the Packers .5%
Can you get ❼ Lebron? Can you get 1 Vikings? 2010 is the year to do it!!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Aug 9, 2010 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Keep it up.....................
You won’t win!
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Aug 9, 2010 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions
This isn't a competion you making your self look
So unreaslitc with the Stupid Guranntees and the Favre this and That like he’s God or something and he’s not.. Hall of Fame QB? Yes… Has all the Records… Yes.. Will never have any record broken by Rodgers? No(According to you, because we all knowwwww he’s an “Arrogant Punk”)
Gesh Get some dose of reality man!
Can you get ❼ Lebron? Can you get 1 Vikings? 2010 is the year to do it!!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Aug 9, 2010 11:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Go rout for your Chicago Bulls, or your Atlanta Braves!
Get off my jock!
You get with reality.
Tomorrow at whistling Straits, I will tell Tiger and Phil that you wished them well!
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Aug 9, 2010 11:44 PM CDT up reply actions
GO Bulls!!! Happy?
Heck this is a Vikings site not a FAVREMANIA site.. wtf get real!
Can you get ❼ Lebron? Can you get 1 Vikings? 2010 is the year to do it!!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Aug 9, 2010 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions
I can't forget the BRAVES!!!!
Can you get ❼ Lebron? Can you get 1 Vikings? 2010 is the year to do it!!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Aug 9, 2010 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions
I can't forget that...
the Braves BBLLLLOOOO-OOOOOHHHH-OOOOWWW!
Ha-ha, yeah that was immature, but I hate that chant. 1991 will always have a special place in my heart.
Or should I say don't get banned again!
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Aug 9, 2010 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Yea if I cared than I'd hold on wait for it!!
Care.. get it? No because Favre is on your mind I bet! Just marry him or something!
Can you get ❼ Lebron? Can you get 1 Vikings? 2010 is the year to do it!!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Aug 9, 2010 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Aug 9, 2010 11:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Great! :)
In other news Vikings lose a game… But it’s not Favre fault what so ever. Not even the Pick at the end to seal it.. YEAA!!
Can you get ❼ Lebron? Can you get 1 Vikings? 2010 is the year to do it!!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Aug 9, 2010 11:50 PM CDT up reply actions
You are not right in the head!
You are a whack job!
You are know die hard Viking Fan, with that statement!
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Aug 9, 2010 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Know die hard Vikings fan?
yea that makes perfect since!
Can you get ❼ Lebron? Can you get 1 Vikings? 2010 is the year to do it!!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Aug 10, 2010 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions
I support my team More than you support Favre
Guaranteed!!!!
Can you get ❼ Lebron? Can you get 1 Vikings? 2010 is the year to do it!!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Aug 10, 2010 12:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Wrong again.
I have season tickets……you don’t.
I have a ticket to the Sept 9th game in New Orleans….you don’t.
I have a ticket to the Oct 31st game in New England……you don’t.
I WIN AGAIN!
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Aug 10, 2010 12:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Ig you do huh?
Make you feel more MANly or something? I just don’t get it!
Can you get ❼ Lebron? Can you get 1 Vikings? 2010 is the year to do it!!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Aug 10, 2010 12:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Relax please
Favre is a great QB, and there was arguably some weird things happening in the end of his reign in Green Bay. Everyone has a different reason for liking the Vikings. Some are for the players, some are for the team, some are for the history, and hell my personal favorite it the flashy color scheme.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Awh, you ended the ranting!
What would happen if I said Brett Favre’s wrangler commercials are horrible?
by Vikingsfan17 on Aug 10, 2010 10:41 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Lol!
nunthing…!!
Can you get ❼ Lebron? Can you get 1 Vikings? 2010 is the year to do it!!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Aug 10, 2010 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
There's a limit to obsession of one player
He’s taking it overboard, I never hear anything he says about the Vikings without Favre Favre Favre in it somewhere, and some kind of GUARANTEE!! But I’m through I’ve gotten my point across!
Can you get ❼ Lebron? Can you get 1 Vikings? 2010 is the year to do it!!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Aug 10, 2010 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
He is his #1 fan
Im sure if put in the position, he would be willing to slice off a finger if it meant he and favre could spend an afternoon huntin armadillos????
COOCOO
by PURPLEPUSSYEATER on Aug 10, 2010 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Correct.
You are dead on.
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Aug 10, 2010 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Come on guys lay off R4F he is a Favre fan but he is also a Vikings fan too! Im a die hard Vikings fan but i also think Favre is the Greatest QB of all time to, and so I think Favre can lead us to the Superbowl Victory that we all want! Thats the goal here guys we are all Viking fans here so lets keep are eye on the prize and support Favre and who ever likes him he is are QB and the best option we have to win right now! And for everyone jumping on GB’s wagon for the North title We own it so untill they dethrone us we are the NFC NORTH CHAMPS! SKOL VIKES SKOL FAVRE!!!
by cali viking on Aug 10, 2010 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions
+4......................
Thank you.
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Aug 11, 2010 12:57 AM CDT up reply actions
I respect R4F's passion
but it’s how he makes things seem GODLY when talking about Favre.
Can you get ❼ Lebron? Can you get 1 Vikings? 2010 is the year to do it!!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Aug 11, 2010 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Partially because he is godly.
by Vikingsfan17 on Aug 12, 2010 10:00 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
It was the dropped third down pass 18 seconds after that INT .
Remember . After review . The next day came the apology from the Ref’s for not only a missed call . But a missed call on the instant review . The Saints were well out of field goal range and wold have needed their second suprize onside kick .
Oh wait you were there and it never happened that way . Right ?
You spend entirely to much time at Canal St. Cronic !!!!!!
by gothicpurple on Aug 10, 2010 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions
what are you talking about?
Can you get ❼ Lebron? Can you get 1 Vikings? 2010 is the year to do it!!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Aug 11, 2010 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions
The SB I think...
I don’t remember that play, but meh. Didn’t really pay attention to this year’s SB. It wasn’t too exciting.
With only 1 SB to show for it
Seems odd.
Favre, even your agent has had enough. The drunken grillmaster, Buzz Cook, is getting too old for this.
last post in response to
REVENGE4FAVRE.
Favre, even your agent has had enough. The drunken grillmaster, Buzz Cook, is getting too old for this.
Ted Thompson will pay....................
and Favre and I will have the last laugh, Guaranteed!
Let me ask you something UnBannedVikingholic …………………….
Do you think your starting QB holds a grudge for the past 2 years?
ANSWER: HELL YES!
SO QUIT CHALLENGING ME!
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Aug 9, 2010 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Not really, he's over it
he hates the Saints more than the Packers now.
Can you get ❼ Lebron? Can you get 1 Vikings? 2010 is the year to do it!!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Aug 9, 2010 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Wrong again.
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Aug 9, 2010 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Says you
against Millions of people who disagree with you!
Can you get ❼ Lebron? Can you get 1 Vikings? 2010 is the year to do it!!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Aug 9, 2010 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Millions?
All that counts is Favre and I!
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Aug 9, 2010 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions
So why are you here?
Favre isn’t!
Can you get ❼ Lebron? Can you get 1 Vikings? 2010 is the year to do it!!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Aug 9, 2010 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions
He isn't?
Favre is under contract.
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Aug 9, 2010 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh I didn't know that
- sarcastic* …but btw I was referring to this site!
Can you get ❼ Lebron? Can you get 1 Vikings? 2010 is the year to do it!!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Aug 9, 2010 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions
You really don’t realize how childish you come off do you? Everyone knows you love Favre, and that you’ll defend him or the team he’s on blindly to your death. Everyone also knows you hold a silly grudge against Rodgers for doing absolutely nothing. As well as Thompson and McCarthy.
So to recap, Favre is the best ever, Rodgers is arrogant and overrated, Thompson is the worst GM in NFL history, and McCarthy is also known as McLardy by some. We all get it, and really don’t need to hear it anymore.
Your childish “your dumb, no your dumber act” that you’ve engaged in with some people in this thread is a shame. Ted wrote a great article. Too bad over half the comments regarding that article have to do with nothing relating too it…
by packallday555 on Aug 10, 2010 7:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
It’s Kinda ridiculous!
Can you get ❼ Lebron? Can you get 1 Vikings? 2010 is the year to do it!!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Aug 10, 2010 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions
IF you don't like it......................
go back to your site.
I will post my opinion.
Too Bad, Too Sad for you.
I will be there in person to see some REVENGE on Sept 9th,2010!
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in 2010, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLV, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Aug 11, 2010 12:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Milk was a BAAAAAAAAD choice
"Whoever said that the pen is mightier than the sword never encountered automatic weapons."
This is Ron Burgandy Sandiego go f**k your self!
by cali viking on Aug 11, 2010 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
NICE!!
Everyone got the R4F, Brick Loud Noises reference!!
by greenbay packers backer on Aug 11, 2010 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Getting old dont you have your own site!!!
by cali viking on Aug 11, 2010 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Ask me in a year . I'll have a long list . Oops my bad . Rambling again ??
by gothicpurple on Aug 10, 2010 1:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Chill!
It’s over
Can you get ❼ Lebron? Can you get 1 Vikings? 2010 is the year to do it!!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Aug 10, 2010 2:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Best to let it go
I feel your pain, but there’s no win to this one and it just drags the blog down with a long run of pointless argument… Well, look back over it and see for yourself. It’s just not worth the candle.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
I think your perception of receivers in general is flawed.
First off, the TE’s Shiancoe had more receptions and more TD last year than Finley, and Greg Olsen topped both of them with more receptions, yards and was the only one to start all 16 games. If you are giving extra points for youth then possibly Finlley is rated over Shaincoe but still under Olsen.
Secondly, WR’s I do love the Vikings young corp of receivers. Donald Driver is close to drawing Social Security and WR is the position most affected by age on offense. If the combination of Johnson and Burelson works out it could surpass them both. Don’t forget about Martz’s offense in Chicago though I don’t think they have as much talent as anyone else in the conference if the planets aline they could do well.
olson has some serious talent.
but it’s a mike martz offense. TE graveyard till I see otherwise
The time for reckoning has come, and we already have the answer
Precisely
Olsen is probably the most talented TE in the division, and he is quite young still. But Martz has never managed to utilize the TE in his entire career. It’s truly sad to see such a talented player get wasted, especially in an offense with so much questionable WR talent. But the fact is that Olsen is going to be stuck in purgatory for a while.
That said, don’t be surprised if he bursts out of the gate a little, since Martz knows that teams know his TE tendencies. I suspect that he will throw heavily to Olsen the first 3 or so games to break his tendency a little, but he’ll be back to his old ways soon enough.
Which is why I put him behind Finley and Shank
You put Olsen on either GB or Min, and he’s the best TE in the division. Being the best athlete doesn’t make you the best—how well you complement the offense, or vice versa, plays a big part.
"Whoever said that the pen is mightier than the sword never encountered automatic weapons."
by the way, nice work on the defensive half.
I can agree with that one at least 98%. It would be 100 if I weren’t a homer. Congrats on being quite impressively impartial.
The time for reckoning has come, and we already have the answer
Thanks, much appreciated
"Whoever said that the pen is mightier than the sword never encountered automatic weapons."
I'm not as hot on Green Bay as many are
I am about to be a hypocrite here. I am often annoyed when people pull out specific obscure little angles to analyze a team just to make them good/bad. But here I go doing the same thing.
Last year Green Bay went 2-5 against teams with winning records giving up 30 points per game. I am not counting the contest at the end of the year when Arizone obviously didn’t even try. I am talking just in the meaningful games. Their record was only good because of their super soft schedule and their ability to, Tampa not included, take care of bitness against the bottom feeders.
The Vikings also benefitted the same way. Don’t get me wrong. But the Vikings also went 5-3 against teams with winning records, with two of the losses being extremely close games lost late in flukish fashion. And the Vikings also statistically dominated two teams in the playoffs (though managed to lose to one of them with insane turnovers and lopsided officiating).
I’m not trying to argue that this proves the Vikes were better last season because there isn’t a debate there. But what I am trying to argue is that the Packers didn’t seem capable of beating good teams last season and this year the NFC North has a very tough schedule. If they only win 30% of their difficult contests then they can only hope to win 9 games.
The basis of my argument really boils down to the fact that I quite frankly don’t think the Packers were THAT good last season. With Woodson not getting younger, Al Harris quite possibly done, and what appears to me to be an extreme lack of depth at CB and QB I just think this is a marginal team teetering on the edge of mediocrity. If Rodgers missed a couple games with something tweaked is there any question that they’d lose those contests? If Woodson or another CB go down how are they going to play their man press coverages? Plus Jolly out, shaky kicking game. I don’t know. Their passing game can at times overwhelm teams but what about the running game. Defense as well can take over games but I’ve also seen that same defense absolutely hemorage yards and TD’s for extended periods of time.
I just think they have a volatile situation where 6-10 is quite possible. But so is 12-4 if every good player stays healthy and Rodgers sheds those nerves that he seems to show in the first half of every big game.
by Sand0 on Aug 10, 2010 7:48 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I think your point is a variation of the “Green Bay 2009 defense got shredded by experienced QBs” arguement. Because, although I have not looked at who those teams they went 2-5 against were, I would be willing to bet that there is a close overlap with how elite their QBs are.
But you make a good point, if I can put it in my own terms: Packers fans seem to be all gaga over how great their QB/receivers/line/offesne in general will be, when what will really determine if they succeed or collapse will probably be — just like it was last year — their defense. It didn’t matter that their offense was incredible against the Cardinals & put up almost 50 points, because their defense that much worse.
p.s. and yes I know -before anyone tells me - that they were somehow ranked #2 that year. All I can say is, if any Packer fan can mentally wrap himself up in the glory of that #2 ranking, and not be concerned at how Favre and Warner (for starters) picked them apart almost at will, they’re deluding themselves.
Please tell this to gothicpurple lol.
In response to your post above though, our defense is going to determine whether or not we actually become real contenders this season. An improved special teams would help things too, as that unit has probably been one of the worst in the league for the past 2-3 years now.
by packallday555 on Aug 10, 2010 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions
No
Check Vikings vs Saints two years ago
by Vikingsfan17 on Aug 12, 2010 10:03 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Bush had like 2 punt return TD’s that game right? I’m still not really sure what point your trying to make though haha. Care to explain a little further?
by packallday555 on Aug 13, 2010 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions
You claimed you had the worst special teams over the past 2 years.
by Vikingsfan17 on Aug 13, 2010 8:35 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
And you have to consider our atrocious special teams of the past couple of years. Last year wasn’t as bad but it still wasn’t good.
by Vikingsfan17 on Aug 13, 2010 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Great comparison
You just made 90% of the professional sports analysts look like overpaid idiots, good work :)
The joker in the deck is, of course, Favre. If he doesn’t make it back (or he does and ends up getting knocked out of the game and retiring at some point prior to the Super Bowl), the Vikings go from 4 points in the QB dept down to 1 point, and are suddenly only 1 point off from Green Bay. With the wiggle-room on the entire analysis, Minnesota and Green Bay are then in a statistical dead heat with the edge probably going to Green Bay. Not definitively so, the way Minnesota works out to be definitively better than Green Bay with Favre present, but it’s enough to mean that both teams are going to have rack up enough wins to ensure the NFC North takes a Wild Card spot.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
I wouldn't put us down to 1 point if Favre retires
I mean, since Ted is taking offensive-fit into account, Jackson should, at least, still be ahead of Stafford, who probably won’t be doing much this season as he waits for the Lions to build an actually competitive team around him.
Yeah, replace Favre with Jackson
and it’s 4 for GB, 3 for Chicago, 2 for MN, and 1 for Det. That still gives the Vikes a half point lead, but I would have to re-arrange the receiver rankings as well. The Vikings receivers are more athletic than Green Bays, but I don’t think they repeat those 2009 numbers with TJ. I would have to stay consistent with my Calvin Johnson and Greg Olsen argument. Give the Packers a four and the Vikes a three, and the Packers are a half point better.
"Whoever said that the pen is mightier than the sword never encountered automatic weapons."
Great job Ted
This is the kind of stuff I truly enjoy reading here and I give props to you for writing it. Of course the Vikes are the best! Only problem with scales like this is they don’t show how close or far each point is from each other, For instance, recievers, the difference between the Vikes and Pack is very slim. Defensive line it is much larger. All in all I think Minnesota is a better team, and the coaching on each is about the same. The biggest difference this year that I can see is Special teams between the two, and Safety which we’ve been struggling with for years.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Thanks, but brevity demands
that I come up with some sort of measuring stick, and this seemed like the best way to go. I agree that there is a razor thin margin, and the difference between being a wild card team and having home field advantage will come down to maybe four or five plays throughout the course of the season that will decide games.
One of the things I thought about incorporating was the records against winning teams and turnovers. You talked about the record against winning teams, so let’s look at turnovers. Green Bay was first in the NFL in 2009 with a +21, which was way above the norm for them over the last three or four years. They had been running +7, +4, and even from 2008 going back to 2006 (Vikes were +6, -6, +1 in the same period).
I decided against it, because it’s easy to make two arguments with that increase. The easy one for a Vikings fan is that it was a fluke, and when they correct towards the mean in 2010, some of those wins will go away. It’s a lot easier to win 11 games when you’re spotted a turnover and a hlf on average per game.
But the other argument was that it’s a more opportunistic defense with the Dom Capers 3-4, and a higher turnover margin will be the norm, and not the exception.
Personally, I think there is some element of truth to both those arguments. A +21 turnover margin will be very difficult to repeat, but Capers is a high risk, high reward guy, and they will make their share of big plays.
But it seemed too subjective of a category to put in and grade, especially with the switch in defensive philosophies.
"Whoever said that the pen is mightier than the sword never encountered automatic weapons."
by Ted Glover on Aug 10, 2010 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good points and you can definitely over evaluate things that is for sure
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Lets not forget about Tight end
It is VERY import position and receiver in today’s NFL. The Packers have the best one in the Division with Jermichael Finley 55 rec. and 676 yards out a tight end that was not playing for 40% percent of the season!!
Visanthe Shiancoe 56 rec and 566….
You gotta give the edge to Jermichael Finley he is monster!
by greenbay packers backer on Aug 10, 2010 11:06 AM CDT reply actions
Decent post
I’m not going to lie…when I saw the title of this article I was sure I would find some mindless Viking homerism and Packer bashing. I must give you props, sir, that this was actually a well written analysis. I think it is going to be a very fun year, but I also think enough of Green Bay’s glaring flaws from their 4-4 start a year ago have been addressed. A big reason I am picking the Packers to win the division this year is that I think it is much more likely that Favre takes a step backward this year than Rodgers.
A big reason I am picking the Packers to win the division this year is that I think it is much more likely that Favre takes a step backward this year than Rodgers.
Yes, something that weighs heavily on my mind, only made worse by the continuing ankle problems. I too feel like it’s only a matter of time before Favre declines. But … the thing is, I was thinking that 5, even 10 years ago. And then he went and performed at a level that made him a legitimate (if darkhorse) MVP candidate deep into each of the last three years … playing for a different team each year on top of it. Who knows if there isn’t an upside for Favre from not having to play with a brand new team again, that Rodgers does not have in his potential. Maybe that balances things out in your formula.
I give the Vikings 4 and GB 3 at QB because of depth, GB is not a playoff team if Rodgers goes down.
Also I give us the slight edge on the OL we had 2 probowlers GB had none
I will say though that GB does have better OL depth than us but not better starters.
Becareful on Pro Bowls as the metric for good O-linemen. These guys typically go by reputation and not actual play. Was this year McKinnie’s best? Probably not, but this was his first Pro Bowl. Alan Fanica was a Pro Bowler too last year and he was unceremoniously replaced on draft day with a rookie.
The real difference between the Packers and the Vikings respective o-line will be the health of the line. The Vikings need to have the left side of their line healthy. The Packers need their tackles healthy. After that the lines start to look eerily similar. Both teams have scrappy undersized centers (Wells and Sullivan), both teams have guys that can easily be replaced (Herrera and Colledge) both teams have young guys who were solid and should only improve (Loadholt and Sutton).
Depth can be good for the Pack, but it might not be quite as good as it looks. With Bulaga getting a chance at guard then Packer fans get another dose of musical chairs at line. That really doesn’t help the situation much at all. At least the Vikings have set players for each position and then the utility guy behind them instead of the other way around.
by PackApologist on Aug 10, 2010 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Probowlers
I hear just about every Viking fan talk about shouldn’t have been. If that line was so great how did Peterson and Grant end up with the same yards per carry. Is Grant as good as Peterson?
I won’t argue your point here, I don’t think the Packers are a playoff team if Rodgers goes down either, but how many teams with elite QB’s are still playoff contenders if the starter goes down?
I know the Vikes are, T-Jack may not be a QB to win a Super Bowl, but he’s enough to take a wild card spot. Ravens probably are too now, After that though who is? Really if a team has an elite QB they typically don’t waste time with having a second string guy who can really start. If you have two QB’s you typically don’t really have any. Best examples of that this year are the Broncos and Cards.
by PackApologist on Aug 10, 2010 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Weird...
I can’t believe this post sparked so much debate between Packer and Viking fans…
/end sarcasm
Proud contributor to Daily Norseman and SB Nation Minnesota
by Eric J. Thompson on Aug 10, 2010 12:17 PM CDT reply actions
strange huh?
and here I expected chicago fans to come out in droves….
The time for reckoning has come, and we already have the answer
Hats off to you Ted
Great analysis and pretty unbias. I’m not sure I buy into the raw metric, but it’s tough to come up with a paper analysis and predict production. It’s especially tough to do so in a concise form that is easy to discuss in a posting format.
Great job and keep up the good work!
Ted is the man
Great article. . .gives me something to shoot for when I get back in the big chair here in a couple of days.
But, for those of you that think Finley should automatically win the TE race over Shiancoe, here’s a quick list of all the NFL players. . .not tight ends, but players in general. . .that have more receiving TDs over the past two seasons than Visanthe Shiancoe.
Larry Fitzgerald
Randy Moss
And that’s the entire list. Fitz has 25, Moss has 24, Shank has 18. No TE in the NFL has more over the last two years than Shank, and only two WR top his number of TD catches.
SBNation Minnesota - For the greatest sports fans in the world.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on Aug 10, 2010 3:22 PM CDT reply actions
I'll take 18 TDs for 7 Trebeck...
Who is Viscante Shancoe?
Ya.. I think that debate sould come to an end right there.
Shank may not be no Kleinsauce, but, that fact he was a pure red-zone target that put up many TDs is insane….
Oh, and something to think about, Favre spread the ball around…….
A LOT!!!
Chester got it, AP got it, Rice got it, Harvin got it, Shiancoe got it, Bernard got it, and the list goes on.. Even Tahi got a TD pass…..
Ya.. I think that debate sould come to an end right there.
Shank may not be no Kleinsauce, but, that fact he was a pure red-zone target that put up many TDs is insane….
Oh, and something to think about, Favre spread the ball around…….
A LOT!!!
Chester got it, AP got it, Rice got it, Harvin got it, Shiancoe got it, Bernard got it, and the list goes on.. Even Tahi got a TD pass…..So for Rice, his stats are truly amazing considering the amount Favre shared the wealth..
Good thread going here, but where's the "Coaching/Intangibles" category?
I don’t know whom I would take in a battle of wits—-Childress is stubborn and dull, while McCarthy is an unimaginative clown. I’d give the edge to Chilly for more years of experience under guys like Andy Reid. Let’s not forget how hated McCarthy/Thompson were (still are?) in Packerland and Childress’s reputation as an overmatched game coach in Viking country.
I’d rank Lovie Smith ahead of both these bozos. Hell, I’d take Leslie Frazier over both of these tools.
Chicago has the best coaching staff—what do they have, 3 NFL Head Coaches as assistants right now? Meathead Tice is at his best coaching the O-Line there.
That's why I had that disclaimer at the top
‘Everybody thinks their coach/OC/and DC is a raving idiot, so that’s a wash.
"Whoever said that the pen is mightier than the sword never encountered automatic weapons."
Actually
MM and TT aren’t really that hated anymore. Sure there are still some hold outs, but really they are a vocal minority. Most fans in the area appreciate what they’ve done in rebuilding since Sherman left the cupboard bare on wasted Championship tries.
I wouldn’t put Lovie ahead of those guys either. Look at what he has as a team, a team that’s very old and needs to win to keep his job this season. He’s also a coach that’s living on what was in the Tampa 2 instead of seeing where the NFL is right now.
If I were to put a coaching staff cred it would be Schwartz, then MM, then Chilly, and last Lovie. Now hear me out on this one. Schwartz in one year has started to change the culture of an organization that changed the attitude of good players. He’s putting together a team that can be competitive and going from there. If he can turn it around he’s starting to enter into Lombardi territory.
by PackApologist on Aug 11, 2010 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions
True, True
Live in GB and MM &TT were hated 2 years ago but they have silenced there critics here in GB abd many are eating crow. Only the most pigheaded argue the direction were headed.
Detroit and Chicago
Wow, I just realized you ranked Detroit last in every category but one, and Chicago second to last in every category but two (and then last in the one category that Detroit wasn’t, WR).
Maybe that’s just the way it came out, it was a bottom-up thing, but … I still kinds worry here that we’re maybe getting a little too complacent about the rest of the division …
Well, it's because they're the third and fourth best team in the division
You can make a case that Megatron is the best individual receiver in the NFC North, but are the Lions receivers better than Minnesota’s or Green Bay’s? I don’t think so.
Like I said above, Detroit has a lot of young, unproven talent, and there’s a chance with Suh and Kyle VandenBosch, their D-line might be better than Chicago’s or Green Bay’s. But with Suh never having played an NFL down, can you say that it is better today? Again, I don’t think you can.
This isn’t meant to be disrespectful towards Chicago and Detroit, but the talent gap between those two teams and Green Bay and the VIkings is pretty stark when you look at it on paper today.
Could it be completely different in December than it is now? Sure. Cutler could have 30 TD’s and 10 picks, the Bears could have a WR emerge and have a breakout year, the defense could find a fountain of youth, and Mike Tice might do miracles with the offensive line that is one of the worst in the NFL. I’m not betting on it, though.
"Whoever said that the pen is mightier than the sword never encountered automatic weapons."
The problem with D-line analysis
Right now it’s tough to compare GB’s D-line with anyone’s in the division because it’s starkly different in make up. With GB’s 3-4 scheme the Packers are essentially trotting out three DT’s to fill space and stop the run. This year they are hoping to generate more pass rush form the position, but really the guys who are going to get the pressure are the LB’s.
So attempting to compare GB’s line to Chicago or the Vikings on paper and saying one is clearly better than another is like saying an apple is far superior to an orange on paper.
by PackApologist on Aug 11, 2010 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions
But an apple is clearly suerior to an orange
But that’s another debate. ;)
"Whoever said that the pen is mightier than the sword never encountered automatic weapons."
It's because there are no bones in ice cream.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Good point, puddnhead.
Clearly this is skewed in favor of Vikings-Packers. No way do Minn and GB ccome in 1-2 across the board like that.
Impossible.
Just goes to show you you how it’s a team game, and being on a good team REALLY helps your stats. And being on a lousy team hurts…..
Imagine Calving Johnson in a VIking uniform, and the kind of numbers he would put up. Or Urlacher at MLB for either BG or Minn.
Great analysis but differ on 2 points
I’ll take Rogers over Farve, I think Rogers will be better and even the most optimistic Viking fan can’t expect Farve to perform better than last season. The odds in my opinion say father time will rear his ugly head. No one has had a season like that at that age.
I’ll take the Packer recievers, some people said Jennings had a down year. Well I’ll take a 1000 yards in a down year. Driver is Driver but I’ve had the chance to see several practices up close and personal and Nelson is the guy who is looking all world throw Jones in there that’s a lot of talent 4 deep. I think it is real close but I’ll take our group.
Just a side note on defense in the secondary you didn’t mention probowler Collins
Where's your view ??????????????????????????????/
DL. MIN , GB=CHI , DET Peppers pass russ moves them a notch . GB results in 09 does’t allow them to move Ted’s two notches .
LB. The 3-4 give GB an advantage in numbers (4) . But they don’t need it . MIN=CHI , DET
DB. GB as MIN depth and young talent will over lap thePack next year .GB’s 30 INT’s didn’t go unnoticed . DET=CHI
Safety.. MIN=GB Collins was a probowler over shadowed by the CB’s . DET , CHI . What’s up Ted ? CHI drafted and will be forced to start a third rder . GB too for that matter if Bigby forces a IR settlement to get the hell out of GB . I secretly seeing him in MIN ? Delmas is better than what CHI has . Remember the 7 he had in front of him when you criticize .
Over all : I wonder why Ted didn’t break apart the DL . Probably wanted to save the Domination speech for later in the post . Not one comment shows why other Offenses lie at or feet !!! Then beg for Mercy ….
I’d actually say our DL should at this point be considered to Chicago’s at this point. Ted asks who’d you rather have, Pickett or Harris? Based on last season, I’d take Pickett. Harris has been rather disappointing these last few seasons for the Bears.
No way we’re equal at the safety position either. Collins is a top 5 guy, who has 13 INTs these past two seasons. And though I think Bigby is nothing more then serviceable, he’s still probably better then both Williams and Johnson.
by packallday555 on Aug 10, 2010 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn't mention Collins because it seemd a no brainer that he was better
Not an intentional oversight, but just didn’t seem like an argument to have to put to paper. I guess I should have.
"Whoever said that the pen is mightier than the sword never encountered automatic weapons."
No worries, I figured you didn’t list Collins because well, it’s just obvious haha. My comment above wasn’t really in response to your post.
by packallday555 on Aug 11, 2010 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Right On
It has been driving me a little Bonkers as of late, listening to all the “experts” pick GB as the team to beat in the NFC N.
Clearly it is between 2 teams, so it is not that difficult. You have a 50.50 chance to get it right. That being said. You were pretty right on in your comparisons. I think the reason the guys at BSPN and company are favoring the cheeseballs, is due to the uncertainty of our QB position.
Rodgers, although I think he is a tool, his skills are clearly superior to most in the league. His poise, and maturity are huge considering how young he is. He will only get better. Favre is in my opinion, in the top 5 of the greatest QBs of our Era. Nuff Said there.
Calvin Johnson is the best receiver in the NFC N. but since Detroit is well…Detroit, were really comparing our Wides to Jennings. Right now, he has the lead. He is a pure stud.
If Sid, can duplicate his efforts with Favre or Tjack, he will take the top spot.
The key is the Vikings, have so many weapons at wide, its unreal. Rice, Harvin, Berrian, and lewis, not to mention, the secret weapons that are creeping up on our roster. Look out!
Shiancoe is better than Finley at this point. But Fin is clearly talented. Greg Olson is Awesome too.
I think the Vikings O-line is way better than GB;s….we were pretty beat up as they were last year, but coming in healthy, and with another year for our Rooks. We will Dominate. I am looking for Toby to beat down the Defenses while AP, runs all over the place this year. Their really is NO comparison in the running game. If we can get our O-line back to far better than Good. It wont matter who is taking snaps…(Jets 09)…..Sanchez, really sucked last year, but their running game was unreal, so it didnt matter.
I see , GB Defense as solid, and Athletic. They play a scheme that flys all over the place , creating turnovers and wearing teams down. But, we should dominate in this area this year, if we can get the solid play in our secondary, which I think we will. We made some huge moves this year.
Kicker, and special teams. We have the edge for sure.
In conclusion, we have a tough schedule this year, but I really think that if we have the Mindset that we had last year along with the Grudge, that we should have after completely blowing it, in the Championship game. THis is our year to Win IT ALL>
SKOL VIKINGS!!!! Lets have a memorable year, for the players, and Fans……Lets win it all(with Brett)
by PURPLEPUSSYEATER on Aug 10, 2010 10:50 PM CDT reply actions
?
So why, exactly, is Aaron Rodgers a tool?
Actually, had the Packers let Favre come back in 2008, Rodgers very well may have gone to Minnesota as they were in the market for a QB. That would have been much worse for the Packers. Much, much worse.
We have a strong division this year
I think we easily have the strongest division in the NFL this year, even the Lions are turning around and are slowly becoming a competitor where as before people saw them and were celebrating and now its just another game. We for sure have a wild card in our division so it should be interesting to see how this season plays out! I am ready to wear my purple and gold again, its been too long!
But with the wide receivers I think we are stronger than the packers in this department. That is if Harvin gets rid of those migranes…
Should be a great year and I am excited!!
SKOL Vikes!
Three strong divisions- just in the NFC let alone the NFL
Its always easy to think our division is toughest but except for the western conferences the top three teams in each division are extremely strong.
American
AFC East
* Buffalo Bills
* Miami Dolphins
* New England Patriots
* New York Jets
AFC North
* Baltimore Ravens
* Cincinnati Bengals
* Cleveland Browns
* Pittsburgh Steelers
AFC South
* Houston Texans
* Indianapolis Colts
* Jacksonville Jaguars
* Tennessee Titans
National
NFC East
* Dallas Cowboys
* New York Giants
* Philadelphia Eagles
* Washington Redskins
NFC North
* Chicago Bears
* Detroit Lions
* Green Bay Packers
* Minnesota Vikings
NFC South
* Atlanta Falcons
* Carolina Panthers
* New Orleans Saints
* Tampa Bay Buccaneers
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
by lifelongvike on Aug 11, 2010 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Wow, you don’t really realize just how strong pretty much every division is until you actually look at all of them. Thanks for posting that.
by packallday555 on Aug 11, 2010 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions
No problem. We understand the limitations some Packer fans have in conceptual theory. :D
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
by lifelongvike on Aug 11, 2010 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions
LOL. Yes, thank you for making things as simple as possible for me.
by packallday555 on Aug 11, 2010 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions
the packers are who we thought they were.
the whole wr thing with jennings and driver 1k well percy had 2k yards last year, versatility, rec, rush, punt ret , kick ret. 2k thats why he was rookie of the year . but like the point of the article is all the so called experts have guhda on the brain and are annointing the pack as the superbowl favorite. remember this stat rodgers never led his team to a td if he was sacked during a drive.and hes gunna have 4 games against teams in his division who can get after the qb.the pack is good enough to win the division but for whoever wins the division it will be a hard road .
That sums it up
Who ever makes it out alive of the North will be Superbowl favorites.
by greenbay packers backer on Aug 12, 2010 7:10 AM CDT up reply actions
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