Chargers Refuse Vikings Offer For Vincent Jackson, And I'm Confused
by Christopher Gates on Sep 22, 2010 5:02 PM CDT
in Minnesota Vikings 2010 Season
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PrintOkay, so by now you've heard that there was no deal made between the Vikings and the Chargers for wide receiver Vincent Jackson. Well, Jackson can still be traded, but now he's going to miss the first six games of the season rather than the first four, per the terms of the settlement reached a few days ago by the league and the NFLPA.
If what has been going around the internet is true. . .and if it's on the internet, it's gotta be true, after all. . .then I'm really confused by the Chargers' refusal. The Vikings were rumored to be offering the Chargers a package consisting of a 2011 second-round pick, as well as a conditional pick in the 2011 NFL draft, based upon whether or not the Vikings could sign Jackson to a long-term contract. The Chargers, apparently, wanted both Minnesota's second and third-round selections in the upcoming draft.
This is where my confusion comes in.
If the Chargers hold on to Jackson and lose him. . .and, to hear Jackson's agents speak, he is never, ever signing a deal with the Chargers. . .then they'll get a compensatory draft pick for him. However, a compensatory pick isn't going to be any higher than a third-round selection. So, as SI.com's Peter King so succinctly put it on Twitter:
The San Diego Chargers now--likely--have chosen a 3d-round 2012 compensatory pick for VJax instead of a 2d-rd pick in '11. Nonsensical.
Yeah, I don't get it, either. But, you know. . .it's San Diego's loss on this one. Really, it is.
I'm not a draft expert or anything like that, but are second-round selections not more valuable than third-round selections? Seriously, even if the Vikings would have been unable to sign Jackson to a long-term contract, the Chargers still would have upgraded from a third-round selection to a second rounder. But, apparently, that simply wasn't good enough for A.J. Smith and the Chargers, so there will be no Vincent Jackson in Minnesota.
Like I said, this is probably for the best for Minnesota. As nice as it would have been to have Jackson here for those final 12 games, a second and third-round pick AND a $6 million contract for a guy that was going to be here for three months is insane. There are very few wide receivers in the NFL that are worth that, and I'm not sure if Jackson falls under that heading.
In addition to that. . .there's a very real chance that this team could be looking at 0-3 going into the bye week. If this team is 0-3 after next week's game against Detroit. . .a team that hasn't won in Minnesota since Bill Clinton was President and Barry Sanders was toting the rock, a team that they've beaten in 16 of their last 18 meetings, and a team that will be without quarterback Matthew Stafford again. . .then we may well be into full "blow everything up and start over" mode. If that's going to be the case, then there's no need to dump two premium draft picks for a rental.
That's my take on the subject, anyway. I'm surprised that this deal didn't take place, given the compensation that the Vikings were offering, but I'm not terribly disappointed that it didn't happen, either. How do you feel about the whole thing playing out this way?
If there's any more Viking-related news throughout the day, we'll have it right here. Enjoy the rest of your Wednesday, everyone!
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Meh....
We will be OK without him…
Would have been nice, but the guys we have just have to step up – I also do not see us being 0-3…
Course I ALSO did not see us 0-2, so what the heck do I know…..
Is it Sunday yet?
I would rather be IN the Arena than watching from the stands...That is my life!
* Read Teddy Roosevelt's "Man in the Arena" if you need further explanation...
by vikingfanfrom afar on Sep 22, 2010 5:08 PM CDT reply actions
well i'm a little disappointed BUT...
are there any other options out there for guys we could trade for (with talent) who can actually play now? And maybe that we’d either have to get up less, or equal draft picks/players
Well im pretty bummed.
Especially after hearing Percys migraines are back. Its just gonna be harder to get to where we want to be. We can do it though. Skol Vikings.
SKOL VIKINGS 2010!!
little less pissed at the vikes right now
little more pissed at the idiots in san diego. So we are pretty much screwed at wr for another 5 plus weeks, fantastic.
I guess that means we are going after Randy Moss then...
welcome home #84!!
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Sep 22, 2010 5:28 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
There he is!!
There you are, ArizonaVikingsFan! Where have you been? Didn’t see you in last week’s game thread, man. :(
SKOL VIKINGS!!
Hey man!
Games start here at 10am… I couldn’t start watching until 12:30 anyway and I wanted to go into it not knowing…
Sorry I wasn’t on to bust your chops.
SKOL!
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Sep 22, 2010 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm willing to believe
We even got rid of Scherels to clear up his number.
It’s all the Charger’s GM’s fault really. No way is VJ worth our second and third. But a superbowl is so I’m kind of split on the subject
Yeah because Randy
Would be so pumped to play with a QB that isn’t Brett Favre next year. Come on guys quit dreaming.
Favre: It's rare to ever see a QB be so indecisive, waffle...
It's also unlikely to have one start 19 consecutive seasons.
Thats rediculous
There is no way the Pats trade Moss mid season. They just want to make sure he is still top form then decide in the offseason. The suggestion that the Pats would trade Moss to the Vikes mid season is just babble garbage, never going to happen.
Favre: It's rare to ever see a QB be so indecisive, waffle...
It's also unlikely to have one start 19 consecutive seasons.
Better question though
Would Moss likely use his FA to take a better offer w/ a new team??
Pats lose out entirely after this year if Moss doens’t perform.
Moss will perform.
Favre: It's rare to ever see a QB be so indecisive, waffle...
It's also unlikely to have one start 19 consecutive seasons.
i don't see it
I don’t see the Patriots trading Moss. I also don’t see them re-signing him after this year. It doesn’t fit with their profile.
Would've liked to get Jackson.
I am happy we didn’t give up a 2nd and third though. A second and conditional pick was a more than fair offer and San Diego seems to have chosen spiting Vincent Jackson over making the best move for their franchise. Should’ve been a win/win trade but San Diego was unreasonable so we move on with what we have.
Could've worked very well for the VIkes
Compensation to SD aside (and they ARE idiots for not accepting the rumored deal), at least the Vikes tried something to improve the team
In ‘96, the Packer’s lost their No. 1 receiver (Robert Brooks) to injury early in the season. Had they not signed Andre Rison as a free agent with a bad rep, they never would’ve made and won the Super Bowl.
They should’ve kept Rison in ‘097, but couldn’t afford him. Had the Vikes gotten Jackson, they could’ve cut Berrian loose in ’11 and had a massively upgraded receiving corps.
A 2nd and a 3rd was NOT too much to give up IMO
Most say that is crazy because there was no guarantee he would resign after this year.
Well obviously they would have to have some kind of reasonable discussion with him and his agent about a long term deal either being struck right away or at the end of the year. I mean there are plenty of nice pieces on the Viking offense and they would have offered him a good deal if they spent those picks.
I do not believe that a long term deal would have been a problem and I do not believe that the Vikings would have signed a deal where it stated that they could NOT franchise tag him. They probably would have had a verbal similar to his verbal that he would be open to a long term deal discussion.
So why is it not too much?
First they were going to give the 2nd anyway. So we are only talking about a 3rd round pick more.
Some have already pointed out how we did that for Toby who is NOT a pro bowler at this point in time.
Also, next year’s free agent market will be huge. They could easily sign a guy who is similar to a 3rd round talent which makes up for that pick.
And if they wanted they could deal one of our current players for a pick. For example, Edwards is probably leaving and the Vikings will hope to get a compensatory pick in 2012. But I doubt it because all of us expect them to sign at least one or two free agents after this year which would all but cancel out losing Edwards.
I think it is fair to say that Edwards could get a 2nd or 3rd in a trade before the trading deadline if they were so inclined.
Maybe it is another defensive lineman for a lesser pick.
IMO giving up an extra 3rd is not too much to get a play maker to help your offense this year and for the next few years.
I mean they blew a 3rd to get TJack & Gerhart. They blew a 4th to get Tyrell. They blew a 3rd on McCauley.
Picks are NOT gold if they do not pan out.
And that is the key to this whole post.
You are getting a proven guy. Not someone you HOPE pans out.
Now the eyes will be on that 2nd and 3rd round pick next year to see if it was worth passing on VJack.
Picks can be recouped in other ways.
Too much emphasis is placed on picks that this front office gives away easily (a 4th for Sage) and then uses to move up to get guys that so far the moves have not paid off.
Don’t forget they moved up to get Booty and Sullivan too if I am not mistaken.
Getting a guy like VJack would have generated some excitement for the fan base.
It will get really ugly if they do not win this week. Really ugly.
Where would we get that money exactly?
Jackson was not re-signing here. He was a rent-a-player and everyone involved knew it. We have Chad Greenway, Sidney Rice (who would take preference over re-signing Jackson due to his age) and Adrian Peterson’s contracts to worry about over the next 2 years, not to mention potentially signing a free agent QB and potentially re-signing Ben Leber.
Jackson was a luxury we couldn’t afford long term and giving up a 2nd and 3rd round pick for him without a long term deal is impossible for me to justify. When Brandon Marshall went for 2 2nd’s and Anquan Boldin went for a 3rd and a 4th (both of whom I consider to be superior players to Jackson, though Boldin’s age is a factor) this offseason, it’s clear that the Chargers were asking too much.
The money will be available
Brett Favre – 16 mil
Pat Williams – 4 mil
Kleinsasser – 3 mil
Berrian – 3.9 mil
Leber – 3.9 mil (maybe they resign him)
Edwards – 2.5 mil (most likely since he will want too much)
Lito Sheppard – 2 mil (they may resign him)
Fred Evans – 1.7 mil (they will probably resign him)
Jimmy Kennedy – 2 mil (maybe they let him go if he doesn’t start to play)
Jayme Mitchell – 1.1 mil (maybe they resign him)
Madieu Williams – 5 mil (his salary leads me to believe they may go safety early in the draft)
That is about 46 mil in salaries that could possibly come off of the books. They have replacements for most of these guys and they may not get rid of all of them but there is a good chance that they consider these moves.
Greenway will get Lance Briggs type money which was 6 years 36 mil with 13 mil guaranteed and a 4 mil signing bonus.
Rice will get LESS than Greg Jennings type money which was a 4 year 27 mil deal with 16 guaranteed and a 11 mil bonus. I could see Rice getting about a 4 year deal 25 mil deal with about 12 mil guaranteed and a 4 mil bonus.
AP will get the big bucks similar to Steven Jackson who got a 6 year 45 mil deal with 20.5 guaranteed and a 11.4 mil signing bonus.
A QB will cost some but nowhere near what Favre is getting.
The money is there to sign all these guys and VJack when you consider who will be leaving the team next year.
Signing VJack would have had to be for the long term.
You're assuming that the FO won't resign Favre
He’ll try to stay a VIking as long as Chily and Bevell are here. Hell be out there hobbling around at 50 if someone will let him play. And will pay him millions for doing it.
He's assuming A LOT and most of it is wrong
Considering that Kleinsasser, M. Williams, Berrian and Jimmy Kennedy are all under contract for 2-4 more years, I’m not sure what to make of this list. I’m not sure if you’re saying to cut them all or just that you have the years wrong. Could some of them get cut to save money? Sure. Of course then we’d be on the hook for any guaranteed money we still owed them and that would count against the $45.1 million you calculated.
But you’ve also assumed that Greenway will want to structure his contract after one that will be 3 years old at least by the time it is negotiated. No dice. Odds are there will be some renegotiated contracts between now and then that can be used as a more accurate guideline, but I’m betting easily $40+ million for 6 years.
I also would totally disagree that Rice will get less than Jennings. He will be 2 years younger than when Jennings signed his deal. This means the Vikings will want a longer deal, which means more money/year. It’s also worth noting that Jenning’s numbers were virtually identical to Sidney’s 09 numbers in the season leading up to his contract extension. Ultimately, a lot will rely on how he finishes this season. If he comes back healthy and returns to the level he played at last year, I’d expect something more like the contract Miles Austin just signed in Dallas (7 years and in the $50 million range). But even Berrian got $43 million for 6 (overpaid for sure, but it’s still precedent), which I would consider the basement for Rice’s deal personally.
And don’t make me laugh with the Steven Jackson contract. Again, that contract will be at least 3 years old by the time Peterson’s agents get to the bargaining table. Not only does Adrian want to be the highest paid running back in football history, but he has some direct competition for that title that is looking for a new contract as well. And unlike Jackson, Adrian is one of the best players in the league, not just best RB’s. He will want to be paid like one of the best players in the league. I predict that Adrian will be looking at a contract that will be paying him close to $10 million a season for 5-6 years.
So besides horribly underestimating the costs of re-signing premier players entering their primes, you apparently overestimated how much money will be coming available from expiring contracts.
I’ll say it again. In a salary capped league (which we have NO IDEA how the salary cap might look in the future if it exists) there is no way we could afford Jackson and the key players we need to re-sign. Of course if the owners get their way and we go uncapped from here on out it would be a moot point…
by Cobra312004 on Sep 22, 2010 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Can't pay AP. 10 mil a year for five or six years
He won’t last that long. Give him a maybe 11 or 12 mil for 3 years tops, anything more than that is crazy. Running backs fall fast. It’s just to hard on the body. Check the stats for yourself. Yes there have been exceptions to the rule but 5 years in this league is about all your going to get at peak performance.
He is 25
I’m well aware of the typical life expectancy of a RB’s career. The shelf life for a running back of Adrian’s caliber is typically until they are 30 +/- 1 or 2 years based on wear and usage. I say 5-6 years because I would expect us to give him a 4 or 5 year deal with a team option for an extra year.
I said "POSSIBLY"
Here are the contract status for just s few of the guys (there is a post with all of this info) …
Madieu Williams -
2/29/2008: Signed a six-year, $33.75 million contract. The deal includes $13 million guaranteed. 2010: $2.975 million, 2011: $5.4 million, 2012: $5.4 million, 2013: $5.4 million, 2014: Free Agent
Jimmy Kleinsasser -
2/27/2009: Signed a three-year, $9 million contract. The deal includes $3.5 million guaranteed. 2010: $2.5 million, 2011: $3 million, 2012: Free Agent
Bernard Berrian -
3/1/2008: Signed a six-year, $43.4 million contract. The deal contains $16 million guaranteed, including a $5 million signing bonus, a first-year roster bonus of $8 million, and a second-year roster bonus of $3 million. 2011: $3.9 million, 2012: $6.9 million, 2013: $7.9 million, 2014: Free Agent
Jimmy Kennedy -
3/13/2010: Signed a two-year, $6 million contract. 2010: $1.5 million, 2011: $2.5 million, 2012: Free Agent
All of these guys have already received their guaranteed money and Madieu’s salary will jump up dramatically which is usually the time a team lets a guy go if he is not producing.
Kleinsasser may have one more year after this but you never know if they decide it is time to let him go. He has been a great Viking player IMO. Not HOF but very very steady and dependable. They could draft a young TE next year to replace him.
I do not expect Favre back nor would I want the team to wait around and not draft somebody or sign a free agent in the meantime.
If they had signed VJack then obviously BB would be gone.
Just counting Favre, Madieu, BB, & Kleinsasser there is 28.3 mil in salary.
Sheppard is only on a one year deal for 2 mil. If Cook is all that and Griffen comes back healthy I do not expect them to keep Sheppard. I think they will draft another young CB.
Kennedy got injured but still needs to show up this year or he could easily be let go or traded especially if they like Evans & Guion. They may draft a big beat like Phil Taylor next year too. And they have Johnson on the PS who they like.
Lever is a free agent and there is no guarantee they will resign him. I think they like Erin H and may be ready to let him have a shot. Also they could possibly draft a young LB like Travis Lewis or Butch Carter next year.
Edwards is a mystery to me at this point but either he or Robison will get paid.
I doubt they let both go.
And I do not believe that Rice will get Jennings money. Jennings produced more than Rice and received a new deal after his 3rd year. Even so, they could give him similar money. I do not know how much it is with the rate of inflation but since the economy has been tanking, I doubt it will be that much more (and Jennings got his deal in 2009).
Greenway is NOT going to get Patrick Willis money which was …
5/4/2010: Signed a seven-year, $53.51 million contract. The deal contains $29 million guaranteed, including a $15.5 million signing bonus. He is also scheduled to receive annual $1.25 million workout bonuses in years three through seven. 2010: $1.098 million, 2011: $1.596 million (+ $4.8 million “supersede” signing bonus), 2012: $1.904 million, 2013: $2.402 million, 2014: $2.9 million, 2015: $3.398 million, 2016: $3.896 million, 2017: $4 million, 2018: Free Agent
or Karlos Dansby money …
3/5/2010: Signed a five-year, $43 million contract. The deal contains $22 million guaranteed, including a $16 million signing bonus. 2010: $4.8 million, 2011: $2.7 million, 2012: $8.8 million, 2013: $6.05 million, 2014: $9.05 million, 2015: Free Agent
… so how much do you think he is worth? I think 6 year 36 mil is a good starting point. Maybe 5 years.
Whatever AP gets he will get but to say Steven Jackson is not one of the best players in the league is bogus. he is a damn good RB on a lousy team with no other options and a worse QB & offensive line. And he still had 1,416 yards rushing and 322 yards receiving last year. He had more yards rushing than AP and less yard receiving playing behind a worse offensive line and with a worse QB and WRs.
I do not think I am “horribly underestimating” the possible future salaries of some of the players nor do I think that the math is off in the, let me say it again for you, “POSSIBLE” money that could go into the pool from expiring contracts or players released.
And they still could trade for VJack. If they had traded for him before he would have been available for the Vikings 5th game. If they trade for him now he will be available for the Vikings 6th game. It is only a one game difference. Perhaps AJ Smith will reconsider and take the Vikings offer of a 2nd in 2011 and a conditional 4th or 5th in 2012?
I do not believe it is dead yet!
Does'nt V-Jack have 2 strikes though?
If so, that extra pick is too much….especially with his suspension.
We have to remember that w/2 strikes, the Chargers need to get rid of him before they get burned….They need to get rid of Jackson more than we need to get Jackson. The Chargers are being way too greedy….unless of course I’m wrong about the 2 strikes thingy ?
Rice is Chilly’s boy, he drafted him. So I’m thinking if anyone gets a long term deal, it’s going to be Rice….IMO.
I don't think he is
His league suspension was for violating the league’s personal conduct policy, not substance abuse. If it was his second strike, he would have been facing a 4 game suspension from the league, not 3.
As for Rice, agreed, he is a lock for an extension over Jackson. “Chilly’s boy” or not, Sidney Rice turned 24 less than a month ago and had a better season last year than Jackson ever has. Meanwhile, Jackson is 27 and will be 28 in January, which is not a great age to give someone a big long term contract.
DUI's fall under substance abuse.
A third DUI for VJ would trigger a full year suspension depending on when or if it occurs.
by CanadianViking on Sep 22, 2010 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions
All indications were that Jackson would not sign a long-term deal.
I don’t know why that would be true but it was reported. If not, then I agree with you. If reports are accurate then your initial premise is invalid and the deal wreaks of desperation. Regardless of who we eventually get with those picks, it certainly represents better potential than a certain 12-week high-paid receiver, especially when we would likely have Sid back for as many as 8 of those weeks.
We supposedly had a one year deal with a player option for a second year with Jackson.
We offered a second and a conditional 5th rounder that would increase if we signed Jackson to a long-term deal. Value of picks aside, San Diego was just being stubborn and stupid here. We basically offered them what they wanted if Jackson signed for more than 12 games with us and they wouldn’t recognize the fact that VJ’s value was tied to the length of contract he signed. Now San Diego will be lucky to receive a bottom of the third round compensatory pick for VJ. The Vikings did what they could but San Diego refused to do a fair deal to spite their malcontented player.
by CanadianViking on Sep 22, 2010 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions
True
But the Vikings should have just given the pick and then went about their way of getting a pick back and signing VJack long term.
A 3rd round pick is not a big deal.
Everyone thinks that it is but we just sacrificed one to get Toby. So why not for VJack?
If you really want the guy you do what it takes. No one would remember if he starts catching all kinds of passes from Favre and the offense is doing better.
Marcus McCauley was a 3rd round pick by this front office.
They gave a 3rd to MOVE UP for TJack.
VJ didn't want to sign long term unless he got Brandon Marshall money though.
It’s not just the cost of the extra third round pick it’s the cost of that pick combined with 30 million guaranteed for a player that is one DUI away from a season long suspension. A one year prove it to me deal with a draft pick tied to his resigning was the only way the deal could have worked for the Vikings. I see your point about doing what it takes to get a good player but giving up a 2nd and 3rd plus a huge contract for VJ is a giant risk. Even the Redskins balked at this deal and they never walk away from even ridiculous deals : )
I would’ve loved to get VJ but I think we offered as much or more than what was reasonable to get this deal done.
by CanadianViking on Sep 22, 2010 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions
You're still assuming the longterm contract.
If we had a reasonable expectation that would be accomplished I think we would have pulled the trigger. We didn’t, hence the conditional pick on the table.
You’re looking at 3rd rounders we sacrificed for players that:
1. We thought represented long-term talent for the team.
2. We had no reason to expect wouldn’t sign for a 3-4 year rookie deal, and in fact did.
We obviously had reason to expect VJ would not sign long-term, and again… Sid is possibly back for as many as 8 of the 12 games that VJ plays. 6 mil, a 2nd & 3rd round pick, for 12 games = bad deal.
So was Asher Allen
And he’s looked pretty good. It’s easy to just say “Oh, we haven’t made great picks in the 3rd round so let’s just get rid of it” but the past doesn’t mean anything for the future. Just because a team has a strong or weak history in the draft doesn’t mean they won’t get lucky. Our history in the 3rd round is no reason to devalue the pick. At the very least you could provide a little context.
2006 – T Jack – Agree or disagree, they targeted him as their QB of the future. If you think you have a shot at that, you pull the trigger.
2007 – McCauley – Washed out but was highly regarded coming out of college.
2008 – Jared Allen – our 2008 3rd rounder was part of this trade and the Chiefs used it to select Jamaal Charles.
2009 – Asher Allen – Has shown promise and has started both games this year.
2010 – Toby Gerhart – Pick was used to move up for Toby. TBD
Again, Jackson was a 12 game rental. If we were interested in signing him to a longer deal, we wouldn’t have offered him a 1 year contract.
by Cobra312004 on Sep 22, 2010 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions
t jack
tjack was 2 third rounds for last pick in round 2.,
by skol viking on Sep 22, 2010 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Giving up a 2nd and a 3rd
It is a big deal when you can see the writing on the wall. I believe we (Vikings – fans, players,
coaches and management) need to stop listening to the media about being in a win now situation.
The next draft is suspected to be loaded. That’s why we need to keep our draft picks.
by midnightwonder on Sep 24, 2010 7:40 AM CDT up reply actions
AS FAR AS SANDIEGO GOES
IT IS CALLED CUTTING OFF YOUR NOSE TO SPITE YOUR FACE!
Noteworthy
If the Chargers hold on to Jackson and lose him. . .and, to hear Jackson’s agents speak, he is never, ever signing a deal with the Chargers. . .then they’ll get a compensatory draft pick for him. However, a compensatory pick isn’t going to be any higher than a third-round selection.
This is true but it assumes two major assumptions.
#1. That the new CBA that is eventually agreed upon will feature a similarly structured approach to awarding compensation for losing free agents.
#2. Even if the CBA does end up having the same rules, I’ve read a few places that the reward system for a lost free agent is based on the first year salary of their new contract (aka, lose a big money guy, get better compensation). Assuming this is true, some have floated the idea that Jackson may take his revenge on the idiot Chargers by taking a reduced salary in the first year of his contract, with a backend heavy deal. If this happens, the Chargers could end up with a 5th-7th round pick, or potentially nothing at all.
While #2 seems unlikely, it’s clear that Smith is not trading Jackson just to spite him. If I were in a similar position, I would definitely take deferred money to take a measure of revenge on the people that screwed me out of an entire season of my career.
The point is, this may end up being an even stupider decision for the Chargers in 12 months from now then it does right now. And that’s assuming Jackson doesn’t sign with a division rival.
Why should anyone be confused by what just occurred?
“You should never argue with a crazy mind. You oughta know by now.” – Billy Joel
A. J. Smith earned the nickname the Lord of No Rings fair and square. He’s like Favre’s old buddy Ted Thompson, but without the deodorant. Anyone who caves in to this guy has no self-respect. I hope VJ gets that TP with AJ’s face on it.
Bernard hurt his knee in practice today.
The Hank Baskett era has dawned.
“Hey Nineteen! No, we got nothing in common. No, we can’t talk at all. Please take me along when you slide on down.” – Steely Dan
by Elgar on Sep 22, 2010 5:45 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Yay for BB
Thank you BB. Welcome Hank ‘gift the SB to Saints’ Baskett.
Does that mean Kendra will appear in Viking gear now?
Skol Vikings
If there are football gods
Then yes. . .yes, she will.
SBNation Minnesota - For the greatest sports fans in the world.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on Sep 22, 2010 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions
The Chargers Lost This Mexican Stand Off
And frankly I am glad. I think the Chargers thought they had more leverage then they ended up with. More than anything, I am happier with the fact that the Vikings didn’t blink first on this one. Fact of the matter is that most people on this site that would have been happy with the 2nd and 3rd round pick deal to take place would be the same people at the end of the year, if the Vikings didn’t produce any thing but a Super Bowl after the trade, saying the trade was as bad as the Hershel Walker deal.
There could never be a worse deal
than the Herschal Walker deal.
I agree
But we are talking about the internet here, people have a tendency of getting over dramatic from time to time.
by PurpleSpectre on Sep 22, 2010 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions
A J SMITH
is a egomanic what u offar was more than far value
okay i have cerebral palsy arthris and chronic fatigue as well i have a great life and loveing folks some days are better than other days i got a make-a-wish in 2001 and saw my favorite team the broncos it was the trip of a lifetime i wish everyone couild have gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that okay but i bleed organ and bule for my mnr fans but i bleed orange and blue denver will rise again resident broncos fan for every blog resident broncos for stampede bule thanks shvd98z24 real name jeremy woodard nettleton high class of 02 yes i am a raider
It's obvious that for AJ Smith, this was personal.
He’s apparently asked a ridiculous price with every intention of rejecting all offers. There simply is no other explanation for such a clearly inferior outcome for his team.
He sounds like quite the @$$-clown.
Just another guy full of himself because he thinks he’s more important than everyone else. Will definitely be rooting against them the rest of the season.
WTF Chargers
It is really hard to understand why the Chargers didn’t go for the deal when it seemed like fair compensation to unload Vincent Jackson and move forward. But they didn’t and, should there be a worst case scenario, it is good for the Vikings to hang onto draft picks. I’m still punchy about trades that seem desperate and lopsided after the Herschel Walker trade.
Life being what it is, one dreams of revenge.
- Paul Gauguin
Lions Fan Here, sometimes I lurk the enemies boards the week before a game
Mainly because I have run out of content over on the Pride of Detroit. Anyways I would not worry about V-Jack. There are a lot of other options out there for you guys if your front office goes for them.
Some teams like Jacksonville and Buffalo actually have underrated receivers because they don’t have quarterbacks that can get anyone the ball. And both of those teams are in a rebuilding mode. I bet you could get a decent guy for a 3rd rounder. There is the whole Randy Moss thing too, I would be amazed if the Patriots turned down a 2nd round pick for him. And there is Denver who seems to want to get rid of all the previous regime there, and Eddie Royal is still left over there.
Heck if you wanted to take a chance on a DUI guy you could try to get Braylon Edwards from the Jets. It is not likely that they will keep both him and Santonio Holmes and they might deal him for the right price. There are even some guys on practice squads, I wonder why you have not claimed Seyi Ajirotutu off the Chargers practice squad. He has decent everything but not great anything. Good size, hands, routes, used to be Ryan Matthews room mate and he absolutely tore up Dallas in the preseason.
Anyways, you guys seem to have a pretty good front office so whatever they do should work out well. Just thought I would let you know not to despair, there are a lot of options out there.
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
Wow, a pity post from a Lions fan
Things must be getting pretty bad around here…
He was referring to jurp guys
What you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your entire rambling incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Sep 22, 2010 8:59 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
hey evilsmurf, thanks for dropping by...
jahvid best kicks butt. and i like a lot of the skill position guys you have. too bad stafford is hurt, i really wanted to see him play. how is nate burleson doing?
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Yeah its rough, but it seems like all of the "Norris: Division has problems on the offensive line
We actually have not been giving up too many sacks, but the ones we do have been viscous hits. Missed assignment type of stuff where guys run free, or getting beat to the outside on the blindside. Not good at all.
Nate is an awesome guy, very loved in the D. Last game he was a huge part of our game plan but got injured within the first few plays of the start of the game. He has a high ankle sprain and will be out 2-3 weeks. He says that if he can cut he will play but our coaches are usually really really cautious about that stuff. I would give him about a 20% chance of starting.
So that will hurt, having Bryant Johnson as a #2 guy on the outside and using either Tony Scheffler, Derrick WIlliams, or Aaron Brown in the slot. It may help pass protection if Scheffler plays slot since Will Heller is our best pass protect tight end.
And if Jahvid has a bad game it is going to be really tough for us. Because we have not been finding Calvin until the fourth quarter of games so far.
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
Oh, trust me,
you will find Johnson this game. Especially when Frazier thinks Sheppard can handle a reciever who’s a good 6 inches taller, on a deep route, by himself. Johnson will probably have a big game on us.
Cook's back
Chris Cook will be matched up with Johnson a lot. Nothing like diving in the deep end, huh?
other options?...
I know that fans including myself would have liked Jackson…I know that some have suggested making an offer to the Pats for Moss…but honestly, there’s another game changing receiver out there that comes with no baggage…does anyone have a clue if Larry Fitzgerald would become available for the right price?…I was very happy giving up what we did (a ton) for a player of Jared Allen’s services on the defensive side…why not give a call to Arizona to see what it would take to bring Larry back home?
If Vincent Jackson is allegedly worth a two and a three
I shudder to think what Fitzgerald could command in a trade.
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by Christopher Gates on Sep 22, 2010 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Now there is a thought
Fitz is in real bad shape in Az, is a Minnie native and probably would take less to play with the Vikes this year.
and still no walker?
i’m not sure if javon walker has signed with anyone else, (have tried to research) or, what he may have done to childress, but it doesn’t make any sense not to have him here. he may not be the receiver he used to be, but he has a history with farve. all i’ve heard and read on alot of sites, is how farve has no continuity with his receivers. then we get one he knows, and we cut him. now we are down to 2 healthy guys, (camarillo & lewis) and 1 has only been here 3 weeks. can’t really count on baskett this week either. am i totally off base here, or is everyone else confused as well?
by indianavikesfan on Sep 22, 2010 8:37 PM CDT reply actions
Chargers strategy
They probably intend to let him sit out this year, and then franchise him next year.
Either that, or AJ Smith is completely nuts.
that is quite a risky play
Considering there is a decent chance that the Franchise Tag might not be around in the next CBA, that would be a dangerous game to play.
I think AJ is just screwing up and not thinking this through. I think he’s making a personal stand against the players by not caving to contract demands and not trading them. I also think that this situation is going to come back and bite him. Jackson is gonna get away for nothing and fans will be upset they didn’t cash in and get something for him, and players around the league will steer clear of San Diego so they don’t end up as the next Vincent Jackson or Marcus McNeil.
by Cobra312004 on Sep 22, 2010 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Troubled times for sure.
I imagine the Vikes are secretly working out Joe Webb at WR… or some such brilliance. I am no expert, of course, but the WR crew looks awfully weak to me right now. Camarillo should be used much more, in a Wes Welker type of manner (obvious); but I still think a move should be made to bring in one more legit WR with some type of upside. There must be someone they can acquire in a trade, right?
Other opinions of mine:
Hank Baskett is nothing to get excited about. I have kept an eye on his progress over the years and he is mediocre at best. Berrian should be traded, but there aren’t any likely suitors… so we are stuck with his under-producing @ss. Sad about Percy. He is a good guy and a potentially great player who deserves better than the bad luck he has been having. But when one’s team cannot count on you suiting up, what value do you have?
I was on the fence about signing Vincent Jackson, but leaned toward doing the deal because I think the team needs to routinely score in the 28-30 point range to be a contender for the playoffs. A month ago, I figured that was a given. Not anymore.
Hm
Jackson for 1 season for a 2nd AND 3rd round pick? NO THANKS.
By all accounts if they couldn’t get more than a 2 year deal out of him and his agent then I am glad they didn’t get him. If they had agreed to a 5 year deal then I would have been more than happy with both a 2nd and 3rd rounder going to SD.
buzzkill....
This is just another frustration in what is turning out to be (so far) a very frustrating season.
Oh Vikings of Old, where is the magic that is missing this season? Have you gone away only to return when there is only a shred of hope left for our 2010 Vikings? I see you coming back, only to rip my heart out once again in a bitter end. How bleak the future seems. But I will not give up on you. You will remind someday me why I cry skol every Sunday (or Monday)(or Thursday) with every hope that my Vikings prevail. I only hope you return sooner than later. Amen.
We've been here before
We just didn’t realize it last year when this happened. Opening the season by beating Detroit and Cleveland disguised it but I don’t think we’re playing all that different than we did the first two games last year.
But high expectations and a tougher opening schedule will skew the results the other direction. I think we’ll be fine, just wait.
by Cobra312004 on Sep 22, 2010 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions
it may be too late
Its not just a couple tough games to open with. What happens if we go 2 and 5? Or worse? at that point Rice isn’t going to be a savior. I just don’t see the passion…the enthusiasm. Sunday looked as if we could care less whether we won or lost. brett has to want to win and nobody is gonna make him do that except Brett.
by favre2percy on Sep 23, 2010 4:18 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
We've been 3-5
at the midway mark, and still very nearly made the playoffs. It’s possible to do it.
Awesome Post
Well said, couldn’t agree with you more.
In addition, you can argue that 2nd round picks are more valable than 1st round picks…well at least from the standpoint that you are still picking from a top level talent pool, but not so heavily invested fianancially. I want to say I heard Rick Spielman talking about how organizations love 2nd round picks for that reason. Espically when it comes to those top 10 slots; lot of money for unproven . Anyway, I digress.
Paying a 2nd and 3rd round pick or even a 2nd round only is too much of a risk in my opinion. Say he signed today, would he be playing Sunday? Does anyone have any idea of what kind of shape he’s in? When is the last time he has run around on a football field? So ok we sign him, the media buzz is all over, he’s gotta play right? Next thing you know he Revis’ himself, tweaks a hammy and is out 2 weeks and moves like bernard berrian the rest of the season.
Agree 100%
Woud’ve been a nice pickup, but not for a 2 and a 3, or even a 2 and a conditional if he bolted after the season.
"A parent's only as good as their dumbest kid. If one wins a Nobel Prize but the other gets robbed by a hooker, you failed."
Don't know if you guys are interested but here are some interviews with the Detroit media
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
Thanks for posting both of those.
Nothing too surprising in Childress’ interview but I did like that he expects the WRs to start producing more to their talent level. Favre’s interview was unsurprisingly all over the place. I did like hearing him joke around a bit and be a bit more confident than he’s seemed lately in pressers. It seemed like there was a little bit of fire in some of his answers that has been missing and was encouraging to hear. Then right at the end he seemed to get all depressed again when he started talking about age catching up to him, so as usual I’m not sure what to make of his comments : )
by CanadianViking on Sep 23, 2010 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions
there’s a very real chance that this team could be looking at 0-3 going into the bye week. If this team is 0-3 after next week’s game against Detroit. . .a team that hasn’t won in Minnesota since Bill Clinton was President and Barry Sanders was toting the rock, a team that they’ve beaten in 16 of their last 18 meetings, and a team that will be without quarterback Matthew Stafford again. . .then we may well be into full “blow everything up and start over” mode.
Take a deep breath, Chris.
Really. We lost one game I expected us to lose, and we lost one game I thought we’d win, but against a pretty good team so it never was a gimmee. We had the ball late in the 4th with a chance to win in both games. That’s ALL that’s happened at this point.
by puddnhead on Sep 23, 2010 1:00 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
+28 and rec'd
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
by lifelongvike on Sep 23, 2010 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I think that comment you were referring to was extreme, but the Lions are starting to look real solid. They could say the same thing you just did about their season. They lost the first game cause of a terrible rule and the second they went toe to toe with the Eagles and lost by 3 against Vick. This isn’t the Lions we’ve known for almost 2 decades now…they are starting to look pretty good. I think the Vikings should prevail but it seems like they’ve never taken down the Lions as easily as I thought they would in the past few years.
The Chargers front office is absolutly retarded.
Gonzo we would be better off getting Jackson for a 2nd rounder, but we would be getting royally ripped for a 2nd & 3rd.
Favre: It's rare to ever see a QB be so indecisive, waffle...
It's also unlikely to have one start 19 consecutive seasons.
No way is
Hank Baskett better than Javon Walker. I know it was the shitty preseason but Walker looked damm good in it. I’m not saying we should have signed him, I’m saying I’d sign him over Hank (another Greg Lewis) Baskett.
Favre: It's rare to ever see a QB be so indecisive, waffle...
It's also unlikely to have one start 19 consecutive seasons.
javon walker has been in twice. maybe there is a reason we didn't sign him?
you know, the guy had knee cartilage replacement surgery. that is uncharted territory.
and he is no speedster anymore. maybe that has something to do with it.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
I mostly agree about Walker but
That tells you what I feel about Hank Baskett.
Favre: It's rare to ever see a QB be so indecisive, waffle...
It's also unlikely to have one start 19 consecutive seasons.
i second that
i was uber pissed when i saw we picked up baskett, (hot wife and all) but i was amazed at how good walker played. yet we let him loose and keep greg lewis? rawr
by THE SAVAGE BEAST on Sep 23, 2010 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow, and I thought Thompson had a big ego! Maybe Smith feels like eventually someone is going to give up more then a 2nd and 3rd rounder? I don’t know, just pulling out straws here. He’s going to look awfully dumb if no one does offer up more, and he ends up with just a 3rd round pick for Jackson.
Word is that.......
VJ, when he does hook up with a new team next year, is going to take a very low first year salary, which will result in SD’s compensatory pick being even lower than the 3rd rounder they would otherwise receive. What goes around comes around.
Haha really, that’s pretty funny. Smith is going to feel like even more of an idiot!
by packallday555 on Sep 23, 2010 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions
But as like the article reads...
He’ll still have his EGO
Where’s a Youtube Video of Kanye West’s EGO?
haha very fitting…
The biggest losers here are
Our Vikings. I hate to say it but getting V. Jack would have been awesome. Sid comes back and all the sudden Harvin is open all the time and its one of the best WR core in football. No V. Jack, no such thing.
Hey Berrian wake up!
Favre: It's rare to ever see a QB be so indecisive, waffle...
It's also unlikely to have one start 19 consecutive seasons.
Nah
The Vikings aren’t losers in this really. Sometimes the best deal done is no deal at all. Really I don’t think the Vikings would of gotten good value in a trade with the Chargers and would of ended up over paying for one player and screwing up chemistry in the locker room and would of ended up losing some extra players because of the amounts you would of had to pay V Jack.
Look on the bright side, the offense will pick up and gel and the Vikes didn’t over spend on a rash short term solution to problematic two games.
by PackApologist on Sep 23, 2010 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions
i don't think that we are the big losers here.
the situation had a lot of red flags.
we’d have to give up 2 picks in next year’s draft.
we might have only have him for a part of this season, without an extention.
we might have had to fork over a huge contract for him (remember berrian).
he might not “fit in” for a while, cuz the team is still trying to figure out how to use what we got.
he hasn’t played yet this year, so he is probably not in football shape, could pull a hammy pretty easy.
we would have to make room on the roster for him, who do you cut, a d-lineman?
we would get nothing in return for the guy we release (e.griffen, kennedy, guion, robison…?).
we would create another shift in our offense which will take more time to get to “gel”.
i get all of the positives of getting a guy like that, but at this point i get the feeling that we dodged a bullet.
i think that trade could have brought a lot more turmoil than we realize. i would feel different if we got him before, training camp….oh wait, at that point we all thought that sidney dipshit was going to be the man!
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Now that its over and we didn't get him
It’s easy to say we dodged a bullet.
If we did get V. Jack it would be all the opposite.
When Sidney comes back who knows if he will be 100%. Jackson is healthy and ready to go, yes he hasent played but he has been working out and he is no more an injury risk than the other Viking WRs.
Favre: It's rare to ever see a QB be so indecisive, waffle...
It's also unlikely to have one start 19 consecutive seasons.
i dunno, i've been sceptical of that trade since the sept. 4 deadline passed.
i’m not sure that i would feel the opposite. but it sucks that we still don’t have the receiver position figured out. i just wish this coaching staff would grow some brains and make more significant strategic adjustments to the game plan and playcalling (screens, designed roll-outs, cut-back running, blocking…). one receiver is not going to fix the problems we currently have.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
One WR wouldn't solve the problem.
Agreed. I guess its time for Favre to take over 50% of the playbook.
Favre: It's rare to ever see a QB be so indecisive, waffle...
It's also unlikely to have one start 19 consecutive seasons.
It is an ugly battle between Jackson and the Chargers
Jason LaConfora on NFL Network was saying that the only move that makes sense with how the Chargers handled this, is for them to franchise tag VJ next year. Which is risky considering the CBA is not done and no one knows what rules will be in place for a franchise tag, if any at all.
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
lol that's dumb anyways
they’ll be paying him the average of the top 5 WRs? That sounds like it’d be alot either way..
V. Jack not
A top 5 WR, not top 10. He shouldn’t be making more than 6-7mill per.
He is good, but not top 5WR good.
Favre: It's rare to ever see a QB be so indecisive, waffle...
It's also unlikely to have one start 19 consecutive seasons.
Javon walker
He made two good catches in the preseason, that’s it. He was slow in his routes, didnt get good separation, and got plain out muscled/positioned a couple times by corners on slant routes. All of you need to let him go just lime the Vikings did. Notice no other NFL team has picked him up?
I’m not a Hank baskett guy, but he 6’3" and has a hell of a vertical and with youth on his side he’s a much better option than javon walker.
The vikes were right not to offer sd more. Sd gm is an idiot. They didn’t wanto pay vj so they shoulda been willing to deal, but on the flip side what kind of an agent tells his client to hold out when he’s just been nailed for two DUI? Disappointing but not the end.
Cook is back and our defense is playing great. Our offense without vj or javon is more than talented enough to beat the shaun hill lead, Nate burleson-less lions. An easy game? No, but one we have to, and will win.
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff222/LeoGetz25_2007/Peterson28-1.png
by aceinthecorner on Sep 23, 2010 10:35 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Okay
I feel better already except I’m not sold on Baskett’s vertical. He hasent done anything in his career. He is nothing more than a Greg Lewis.
Yeah Walker who cares…
Favre: It's rare to ever see a QB be so indecisive, waffle...
It's also unlikely to have one start 19 consecutive seasons.
I doubt he does anything as a receiver. Maybe they want him to contribute on special teams?
by packallday555 on Sep 25, 2010 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions
I get it...
they are sending a message. You can’t force your way into a huge contract. There is a system in place, its been agreed upon by both sides and they (the player…heck and the owners) need to follow it. AJ is telling Vincent and others that just cause YOU think you are worth more doesn’t mean that you are and it doesn’t mean you can just force your way out. You are ONE player in a system and you can be easily replaced. The Chargers don’t really look like they miss him all that much right now to me so I think the message is sent.
They have NO interest in making Vincent Jackson’s life easier and the only way they would was if someone met their exact requests. The Vikings got close but didn’t so they let the deadline pass.
GMs and Owners across the league are probably silently cheering for what AJ did as it will have a trickle down effect on their teams.
Its because AJ Smith is trying to do to him what Al Davis did to Marcus Allen
Jacksons agent said AJ may get to laugh now but next year he will make sure Jackson gets a low base salary and a large signing bonus as pay back which will get the Chargers a 6-7 round compensatory pick instead of a 3rd rounder
This is the same guy who ran off his coach after 14-2 and brought in never can win anythig Norv Turner
World Champions at last
A dirty bird cant fly with a broken wing
by mississippisaintsfan on Sep 24, 2010 9:26 PM CDT reply actions
Not that anybody is going to read this...
But to all those folks calling AJ Smith a jackass for not doing this trade, today you just might have found out why Smith stuck to his guns… the more important of his two holdouts, LT Marcus McNeill just signed his tender, in effect forfeiting almost 3 million dollars in the process. Smith may be an asshole, but he has a plan and sticks to it. And showed that playing hardball against him is the wrong way for a player to go, thus ensuring his team a better shot at long term success. My hats off to AJ Smith.
by San Diego Viking on Sep 25, 2010 3:43 PM CDT reply actions
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