Are we better off with Cook at Center?
by PurpleJesuZ on Sep 27, 2010 4:18 PM CDT
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Or is the naked eye playing tricks on me again. Kind of like when Childress traded away Darius Reynaud to the Giants when he was a sure pick to make the team and be our special teams ace. Its time to take a leap.
When we lost Matt Birk to the Ravens I don't think our staff realized how much we would really be missing. Sullivan came in and attempted to fill his shoes. Its hard to say how good or bad he has been from a "director" out there in communicating with other linemen in their assignments. The word is he is pretty solid in that aspect. Unfortunately, in my eyes, there has been a huge drop off as a physical dominance. I don't think he is strong enough to handle the new aged D-linemen.
Cook came off the bench and seemed to really help in forcing the line of scrimmage into the Lions territory. I wander if the coaching staff has a hard decision to make. I don't see after Cooks performance how Sullivan can be the outright better player.
SKOL
This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.
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+62 (Ryan Cook's number)
He really did a great job," coach Brad Childress said after reviewing the tape on Monday. You didn’t see any physical shortcomings by him at all in there in terms of playing the offensive line.
I was concerned when Cook came in
but he played excellent. I don’t know how he will stack up with a stiffer D line or if Sully would be better but I was pleased with his performance.
I’m with you the coaches have a difficult decision.
"If you've got them by the balls their hearts and minds will follow."
John Wayne
by just another viking on Sep 27, 2010 6:29 PM CDT reply actions
that detroit D line is a good litmus test.
But I supposed whoever is at center will get another big test in 2 weeks.
I’m just glad that Cook is finally getting some love around here.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
depth chart on yahoo sports lists Sione Pouha
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Cook
Has not started and played a full game at center vs. a decent D yet, but it’s good to see that he will get any amount of love that he earns on the field.
Suh has made a couple other centers and guards in the league look like pansies
So I will respect Cook coming up big on this game. I was very worried about him blocking up the middle run and smashing the pocket into Brett. I really didn’t think Sully could do it.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Ryan Cook has earned the job
Sullivan has been playing hurt, and Cooper hasn’t had a real chance, and we don’t have another offensive tackle, except on the practice squad, but TOO BAD.
Ryan Cook is great at center. Keep him there!
i just watched the bears first drive against the puckers....THAT is what giving the qb time in the pocket is supposed to look like. not this 2 second pocket collapse crap that people keep praising here on the DN.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
jay cutler has allllll dayyyy looooong to sit and wait, look around, and huck it.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Huh what?!?
When I turned the game off Cutler had been sacked 3 times in 21 plays and was looking like Frogger. Either things changed dramatically or you must have been drinking heavily. Chicago has to have one of the weakest lines in the league. They may do a stellar job on any given play or series, but they are the last unit we should emulate.
it did turn out that way....but i commented on the first drive (see comment above).
it is amazing what a quarterback can do with actual time in the pocket. cutler was standing there, with time to just scan through his receivers. it made me wanna barf.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Luckily for us
NFL football games are not one drive and done.
by Jepp The Viking on Sep 30, 2010 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
+62 (continued from above)
He really did a great job," coach Brad Childress said after reviewing the tape on Monday. You didn’t see any physical shortcomings by him at all in there in terms of playing the offensive line.
I think cook play really well
It was his college position, until chilly started thinking and made him a guard. Joe Webb a qb when we need wr. tjoke his pet project. common denominator chilly suck let fired him.
We had Birk at Center back then so putting Cook at tackle wasn't that bad of a move.
Hope he keeps the center job now though.
by CanadianViking on Sep 28, 2010 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions
I put R. Cook in the category of Childress's use of Sharper
Sharper was always placed at SS . He felt he could use his instincts more at FS . Brad thought other-wise . Brad was wrong .
Ryan Cook was a second rd pick as a New Mexico Center as you all know . Brad said at 6-5’ he is too tall to play Center . Hard to see over . And not ideal length in wingspan . Yet he shows the athleticism to play RT . His biggest weakness was a lot of false starts . Duh ! As a Center he controls the flow . He is bigger . Stronger . Maybe not smarter . And if Sullivan is 100% . Cook won’t start .
I wonder why Sullivan isn’t at RG . And Herrera isn’t at Center . Herrera is more physical . And has the perfect frame and attitude .
I just hope that DeGeare is lifting weights . We need to have a backup OT more than a Center . I still see Jon Cooper as a PS guy . Maybe this will happen as Rice returns .
Actually Cook in 6' 6" & 3/4
And he looked great out there yesterday, hopefully they keep him as the starter until Sully is 100% healthy, then they can battle for the starting job. Cook did an excellent job getting to the second level, which is what helped spring AP for his long TD run. But you got it right GP he is stronger and at center he controls the flow.
Maybe we start rotating Degeare in there for Herrera who seems to wear down a bit at the end of games this year. That would give us a whole lot of beef on the o-line with Hutch being the only one under 330 lbs.
Herrera tried center
in the preseason, and didn’t seem to pick it up all that well.
Not true .
He did amazing . But they wanted to see if they could place just one guy out of position . I was proud to see Brad give him a shot at Center . As Brad projected him as a Tackle . Then never let him try until now . You are way off base their guy . Who is your source . Post it for us . Or don’t grandma have a computer ?
I also disagree
When watching the Herrera at center OL, I thought the running game improved. Sullivan is undersized. The middle gets stuffed too often. Whenever the Vikings go “heavy” for a 4th and 1 they get stuffed just about EVERY time this year and last.
It may be true that Cook is too big to play center. I don’t know. But I liked seeing him out there at center. He was an okay RT — had his problems. However, those problem go away at center. I suspect what you are left with is a potentially dominant blocking center — can’t say what his scheme calling is like, but he’d get better at that with help and time. Sullivan isn’t the guy for the job. Sorry.
Front office bad move, losing the Giant Harvard grad
Matt Birk was a great center, and his performance so far with the Ravens shows another big loss. Not quite as bad a move as the infamous walker trade, where we go hershel, and Dallas got the Triplets out of our draft pics, but still pretty lame if you ask me. Matt asked the Vikes to promise him a salary last season (or last, bad memory) if he would play, an not have knee surgery. Not much to ask from a great player, who had a Harvard MBA! They said, no, he had the surgery. Well, I dunno I still say I wish Clancy had managed to buy the team, cause he is a real fan. I worry that Ziggy will move the team to LA, and we will have lost two professional teams to the Left Coast!
LeatherRebel
Fanatic, and Dogmatic,
hell, they just don't mix!
We REALLY miss Birk
And it’s still too early to talk about the Dallas trade…….and will always be.
Your injury info is a bit off, but the logic is correct. I don’t believe it was the knee, but the hip and sports hernia.
He asked the Vikes go guarantee his salary in 2006 and he would try to play through the 2005 season and get surgery in the off-season. The Vikes declined, and he went on IR for 2005. He came back in 2006 and 2007 and went to the Pro-bowl both years. He came into 2008 season, the last year of his deal, and was looking for an extension. The extension never came, so the 2008 season came and went. Then as a FA, the Vikes putz around with his contract and don’t show the interest that he deserves. Baltimore comes along with a deal, reportedly similar to the Vikes offer, and Birk walks. Seemingly fed up with the way the organization handled him.
Birk is a stand up guy and from the area. It says a lot of the team when a local doesn’t even want to play with you anymore. I bleed purple and gold, but have to express my disgust with the way the team has been ran for the past decade.
good comments, i agree.
also, i read that matt birk did not like the zone blocking scheme that chilly and co. installed.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Interesting
First time I’ve heard that, but it explains quite a bit. He was getting pretty snarky with Chilly towards the end.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Not just a one sided deal.
When negotiations go bad between a team with a new coach and an established player there is usually more than one simple problem. Maybe Birks age was a major factor. Maybe it was the zone scheme. Maybe it was just that the coach and player were not comfortable with each other. Who knows. But the Vikes did make him an offer matching Baltimore. So the issue wasn’t all Minnesota and Money.
Things happen. The decision did not stop us from getting one play from the SB. Old news not worth rehashing.
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
Reminded me actually of the way the Hawks handled Hutch
They just sort of figured he’d stay.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Unfortunate but not bad . Can't create the next Probowler over night .
Watch Pouncey get their this year just because he was a first rounder . Sully sat a year after being a sixth . So give him time . Remember ? We can’t have 53 Probowlers no matter how bad you want it !
Wow. I really like what the O-Line coaches are doing.
Here I thought someone would compliment the coaches on being able to have some O-Line consistency during the starting center’s absence. That their ability to mix and match the 3 O-Line substitutes was masterful and well done. It occurs to me that Cook was put into the position because we needed a larger center against Suh than Cooper. But Cook is our back-up tackle. He is what he is. He was drafted in the 2nd round. He has yet to become a starter. Yet he is very versatile and very important. He reminds me of Artis Hicks. A real go to guy. But please. Don’t make him something he isn’t. He isn’t your starting center.
But what was I thinking. I should have guessed that one game’s performance by a 2nd stringer would outweigh all that pre-season and practice time. That the coaching staff is so anemic that they can’t tell who is better at the center position than the other.
So far the fans have been wrong about McKinney, Cook, Sullivan, and Herrera. Of course they loved Loadholt last year. Now, we have no tackles. Apparently the guy just has lost his ability to be a tackle. Does anyone ever comment on how improved the Detroit D-Line looked. Or how good the Saints D-Line was? Our running game has been better because of the blocking. But most fans fail to give credit where credit is deserved.
I for one, have to give props to the coaching staff for achieving the goals set for this year. Run the football better. Protect Brett. The fact that Brett has had a little less time in the pocket is due to several factors. Only one of them is less time by the O-Line.
Lastly, to go back and bring up a two year old Free agent signing is way unproductive. It was the same year we didn’t sign 20 available free agents at numerous other positions. That decision led us to being one play from the Superbowl. The Vikings did offer to match the Baltimore contract. Birk declined. Its a business. Stuff happens.
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
Cook actually started at RT before we drafted Loadholt
But you were probably referring to starting at center.
The only knock on him was penalties. He always played well.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
There you go again being all rational and realistic LLV
You question the most basic tenet in blogdomhoodville… WE (the fans) KNOW MORE THAN THEM (the coaches and/or front office)!! That’s why we take time out of our busy productive schedules to offer our knowledge and advice to all, because we know that the coaches read DN daily before making any decisions. /endsarcasm
If you keep up with the positive pragmatism I may actually begin to suspect that you’re working for the company!
oops, sorry. I will go back in hiding now.
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
by lifelongvike on Sep 28, 2010 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree the coaching staff did a good job in starting Cook and not Cooper
Now that Chilly has seen what Cook can do now at center maybe he’ll keep him there until Sully is 100%. Sully missed most of trainig camp and all of preseason, plus he has been injured twice in three weeks since he has been back.
My only two worries
1. Will Ryan Cook get a chance to start next week? If yes, he will do great.
2. Will Ryan Cook agree to a contract extension?
Ryan Cook is the 5th-best offensive lineman on the team
He is just better than Sullivan or Cooper. I guess DeGeare is good, but he is a rookie.
Our 5th-best guy should start, period.
by medicineball on Sep 28, 2010 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions
in the short time that he has played, he played better than Loadholt and Herrera
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
I would disagree.
Ryan Cook did not play well in pre-season. He played OK.
He is not a better center than Sullivan. He will never be better than a healthy Sullivan.
He is probably not a better center than Cooper. I believe this because otherwise Cooper would not be on the roster at all.
Cook had a good game against Detroit. That is all we know.
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
I don't know if you can say such a thing LLV
it seems like Chillly didn’t want him there because he was to tall. So really I don’t know if any of us know how good he is at that position. I know he was a good run blocker at RT, but couldn’t keep his feet from jumping a thousand times. People can come out and suprise you soemtimes. Taking the coaches word as holy writ seems a might bit, um naive
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
I agree with Grime and disagree with LLV on that one
Cook was supposed to be Birk’s replacement at center with Birk coming off sports hernia surgery but Birk recovered well enough to make it to the probowl, and our starter at RT was Marcus Johnson from our infamous 2005 draft class, Cook was moved to RT to back Johnson up but landed up beating him out of the starters job, which he had until last year. Cook played RG, RT, and LG during the preseason, which goes to show he was able to play center in a pinch. Cooper is our second option at center because Cook is our top backup at OT and OG. Cooper got manhandled by our teams second and third string DT’s in preseaon, Cook did a great job against Suh last Sunday. We’ll see how this plays out but anyone who watched the game knows that Cook has preformed the best at center so far this year.
I simply don't agree
We’ll see how this plays out but anyone who watched the game knows that Cook has preformed the best at center so far this year.
I have watched every game. Sullivan played against the Saints and Miami. Cook played against Detroit. Ap managed to run well in all the games.
Brett has not been sacked or hurried from the center position any huge amount of times. I would suggest that has been a Loadholt issue.
On the AP run of 80 yards not one D-Lineman put a block on Cook. If you don’t block Sully he will also get to the LB and put up a block.
I can’t get to the conclusion that Cook is better than Sully. I certainly know that if Cook starts at center then we have NObody to spell our tackles due to injury or exhaustion.
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
Right now Cook is better than Sully
Sully hurt the calf that wasn’t injured before and has missed a lot of time due to injury. Cook has always had a knack of getting to the second level blocks and right now we need to be able to run the ball well to open up any hope of a passing game. Let Degeare backup the OG’s and OT’s, while Sully heals and gets 100%. Maybe we should waive Cooper and try and pick up a backup to our OT’s.
I will be interested
to see if Cooper is again inactive next week. Was he inactive because they thought Sullivan was not going to get hurt ? Is he now expendable? In the Detroit game the coaches had to put Cook in to replace Sully. What will they do next game?
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
Well Degeare was inactive until last week
So maybe they felt that he wasn’t ready and Cooper was, or maybe they felt Sully was back to health? I’m interested myself to see what direction they go.
I see you haven't played the game .
Sullivan is the smartest and the smallest of the three . He may pull better . And he may currently know the playbook . But since he isn’t calling out defenses . Or pointing out blitzes or adjustments . R. Cook could push Sullivan to start . Cooper who I liked . Is both the strongest of all three linemen . And the one with the least progression in my view . Also Cooper is one dimensional at this point . You can’t sucker me into saying Cook is better . But he could have a bigger upside than Sully . It is very possible . As a former second rder Brad will fight to show some worth in the guy . Brad said before the draft that he is at least better than any fifth rder in the draft . And DeGeare was barely a fifth rder .
by gothicpurple on Oct 6, 2010 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow your astute.
But your ideas are not founded in fact.
But since he isn’t calling out defenses . Or pointing out blitzes or adjustments
Of course Sully calls out defenses and points out the blitz. That’s what centers do.
But he could have a bigger upside than Sully
Could Cooper have more upside than Sully? Of course. All second stringers could have more upside than the starters. We only know the answer when they finally get to start. But, don’t we know that Cooper is our third string center? After all he was replaced by our back-up tackle.
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
Even I'll get behind the idea of Cook playing center
At center, he won’t be able to get all of those false starts.
just give it time, there is always a first for everything.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
I agree lifelongvike
on your frustration with the lack of positives about a coaching staff that has done well. Its only the negatives we like to shine upon. I often find myself really impressed with certain calls and the style of team he has created. Then he goes for it on 4th down and 2 in the first quarter in the other teams territory with a run. I get frustrated when it doesnt work. kind of wishing he would have thrown it. then I have to watch the other teams quarterback come on the field and it turns into a fiery feeling. I didn’t have the time then to assess the whole issue…Like go for it on 4th? Ok i like that, its ballsy. I got a good defense. We can afford to take the risk because its still early in the game.
Pass or Run? …We got the best back in the league and a very physical O-line. Lets run it. I wasn’t thinking this at the time but it makes complete sense. I guess its just getting caught up in the moment.
The pass option: They probably aren’t expecting a pass. We could easily hit a quick slant and probably convert it. (preferrably Harvin)
But anyways, back to the post subject. I think Cook at Center for now would be the best option. O’sullivan isn’t a 100% physically and right now is probably more in the 60%. He’s already under-sized for a Center. I think at this very moment (or in a week and half from now) we should start the 100% stronger Cook. Allow O’sullivan to rest.
I think Urlacher and Nick Collins will be a little more frightened with Cook coming at them then O’sullivan. O’sullivan is no slouch, just that he isn’t a 100 percent and his weakness is at its weakest right now.
SKOL
All good points
Plus going for it on that 4th and 2 situation sends a message to the team that the coach has faith in them. And with all the bad media attention that the offense had been getting, that call on 4th and 2 could have provided a much needed spark.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
4 and 2 was a bad call. take the points at that point in the game. we are not the pats.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
you must be one of those lower back tattoo kind of guys. definately not a guiness kind of guy. ;-)
Seriously, the vikes had drove down the field with ease. and when you have AP in the backfield, at home, 4th and 2 is never a bad call. But then again I drink guiness.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
and when you have AP in the backfield, at home, 4th and 2 is never a bad call.
and we had 4th and goal at the 1 and we called adrian’s number….that didn’t work either.
it’s cuz our o-line is weak and inconsistent and our telegraphing playcalls and formations.
u must be one of those lower back tattoo kind of guys. definately not a guiness kind of guy.
i notice you like to try to insult people who don’t share your opinion. you are not very good at it.
great example to set, your kids should be so proud. hopefully they don’t share your genes.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
lighten up
it was a joke.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
based on your previous insulting comments, i doubt it.
p.s. 4th and 2 was a pass play, not a run play.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Okay if you don’t have a sense of humor then perhaps you best stay off comment boards.
Also if you’re going to be critical of the coaching staff, the offensive players, etc., you have to be ready for others to be critical of you.
p.s. I know it was a pass called on 4th and 2. But Adrian Peterson’s presense in the back field is most likely what allowed Shank to get wide open in the hook curl area of the defense. Favre just missed him. It was great call, the offense just didn’t execute.
p.s.s. It’s the call that is being argued, if you want to divert the attention to the execution of the play that is another topic.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
you have been an a-hole in the past, so i don't give you benefit of the doubt.
and i happily use my sense of humor with others, but not you.
Also if you’re going to be critical of the coaching staff, the offensive players, etc., you have to be ready for others to be critical of you.
i don’t mind others being having different opinions or being critical of my comments. but if i am critical of the coach, that is no reason to be critical of me….comment to the post, not the poster. it is simple blog etiquette.
p.s.s. It’s the call that is being argued, if you want to divert the attention to the execution of the play that is another topic.
i think a coach should consider his team’s ability to execute a play that he is calling. they are most definately related. and, i think the correct playcall is a fga. but uhh, thanks for trying to police the flow of conversation anyway.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
I only police the trolls
so if the shoe fits…
But if you can’t tell that a poster is using sarcasm then not only are you a troll, you’re not a very smart one either [or you just haven’t seen the 2 beer commercials that I was referring to, in which case I apologize, but get out from under that rock already; more sarcasm;-)].
i don’t mind others being having different opinions or being critical of my comments. but if i am critical of the coach, that is no reason to be critical of me….comment to the post, not the poster. it is simple blog etiquette.
If your comments are critical of the coaches or players and someone has a different opinion than you do about said coaches or players, then they are commenting to your post.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
you just called me a "troll" and "not very smart"...
those are personal insults. not posting to my comments. that is just rude.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
nope I said if the shoe fits
I also said maybe you havent seen the commercials therefore maybe you didnt get the joke for that reason. So in essence you called yourself a troll and not smart.
Youre the one who called me an ahole , insulting and rude. But I’m starting to think that you like resonding to my comments even if it’s to disagree or namecall and otherwise contradict yourself…
Have a great day!
SKOL
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Youre the one who called me an ahole , insulting and rude.
all true statements in response to your personal insults of me.
i never attacked you or instigated any of that crap. straw man.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
hey strawman...
spittin’ into the wind comes back at you twice as hard.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Going for it on 4th and 2 was stupid
In that situation you take the 3 every time, no questions, ifs, ands or buts. The message you send to the team is that we take advantage of the drive, take the lead and put the points on the board. If it was that easy to go down the field then we’ll be back for 7 on the next drive. Even if we had converted, it was a stupid call.
I liked that he did it.
Showed some guts. To many times here at DN we complain about Chilly being to pedestrian with his offense. So when he finally does something like this we slap him down because he failed at it. Nah, you can’t do that. You have to let him work this out I’m happy he did it because it might mean he’ll do it again and this time be successful.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
+1
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
to be successful at it requires execution by the offense.
our offense has shown too much inconsistency, weak blocking and problems with simple pass routes to warrant giving up a sure thing to take a low probability chance and try to make a statement in the first quarter of a 0-0 game, imo. that’s chilly for you.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
yes but you have to expect your players to succeed.
If you don’t then you are under cutting yourself and them. You have to give them the bit and let them run other wise they will realize you don’t have faith in them. The call was a good one, the play call was a good one. The execution of the play was poor. Who do you look for when that happens? Not the coaches, unless maybe you’re talking about position coaches. Even then these guys are pros and doing things like this should be bread and butter for them.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
agree to disagree on this one. i'd take the points
and be the first to score in the game. but your point about ecpecting players t succeed is understood. though, i would just give them that opportunity at some other point in the game.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Yeah I agree with this.
I find regardless of what our playcalling is Childress and Bevell get blamed when something goes wrong but if it goes right all credit is given to Favre. Last year everybody was upset when we’d run the ball too much and most people wanted Favre to “take over” the offense and pass more. This year it’s been the exact opposite sentiment and we actually criticize Chilly for not running enough. My genius conclusion is that most people just hate Chilly regardless of what he does : )
by CanadianViking on Sep 29, 2010 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
genius indeed. I couldn't agree more with your conclusion
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
I find regardless of what our playcalling is Childress and Bevell get blamed when something goes wrong but if it goes right all credit is given to Favre.
that’s kind of a general statement. but i do think it’s easier to see when chilly/bevell make mistakes. and it’s easy to the blame head coach and coordinators for something going wrong after the fact. but they do run the show.
that’s where “the buck stops”.
i just want to see them mix up the play calling more and include more types of plays and formations to keep the defense guessing, like a smart baseball pitcher who has good scouting and 3-4 good pitches he can throw. also, i’d like to see them be more realistic about the strengths and weaknesses of the team, and not take unnecessary risks in an attempt to make a statement.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Sad part is I hate Chilly
I hate him like fish flavored popsicles, but I’ll still defend his decissions when they are good ones. The nice side of this is I don’t have to defend him much. :D
Ok hate is a pretty strong word… Maybe just massively dislike his style would be better.
Mahi Mahi…
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Jared Allen would order the Mullet fishsicle
( Mullet is a baitfish for those who don’t know)
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
by lifelongvike on Sep 29, 2010 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I like King Fishing
If you don’t know what this means bless your lucky stars someone hasn’t inflicted it upon you yet. If you know fishers you will see this.. Four minutes of my life… gone… poof!
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
I was excited when I heard about it because I wanted us to get a TD after
plowing down the field. But then they missed and I was all “…. fk. We should’ve kicked the FG. Watch this come back to bite us,” which it did :(
It showed stupidity. Period.
That fact was proven by the outcome. I would argue that it was stupid even if we had converted, the fact that we failed makes it a slam dunk. Yeah ok it took guts, stupid courses of action frequently do take courage. Whatever it may have taken to go for it, one thing it did not take was a solid cognitive thought process.
You put every Super Bowl winning coach in that scenario and how many do you think will do the same thing we did? Maybe Sean Payton, but I doubt it. I’m sure a lot of fans liked the decision, and that only further proves my point… stupid.
Remember the Colts game a couple years ago?
5 FGs, no TDs. Just saying…
by Jepp The Viking on Sep 30, 2010 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree J
As much as I love AD I always have a little doubt on his ability to push for short yardage. He is great at finding holes that no one else can and turn it into a big gain. But, how many times do we see AD get stood up at the line. I don’t really like him as the guy who will pound a hole for a short gain.
I see Toby developing into that guy but I also remember times when Jimmy K could take a ball from the fullback spot and just run at the line like a terrorist with a grenade.
This is where I differ with the coaching. Use formations that have options and trust rhe QB to read the D and alter the play at the line.
I may be mistaken but didn’t we have options to use Longwell early in the Niami game? If we had, I believe the result could have been a Viking win.
You take points early when they are on the plate.
by CitrusFLViking on Sep 29, 2010 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
We did have an early opportunity in the Miami game
However, in Childress’s defense (again) we were moving the ball pretty much at will on Miami at the time. I honestly thought that was a good call as well.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Agree.
You can’t judge the call in hindsight as it simply isn’t fair. AT THE TIME, it was a good call. The fact it didn’t work is irrelevant as the correct play was called and we just didn’t execute. The coaches can’t physically go out there and block or catch.
by Jepp The Viking on Sep 30, 2010 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions
This is exactly where I disagree...
I thought it was the wrong call at the time, and that it is always the wrong call in that situation. With our D 3 points can be huge, and as it turned out it could have been the game. Even if we convert there is still a high % chance that we end up attempting a FG.
Fans and players frequently want to go for it on 4th down, and fate will sometimes reward the foolhardy, but the percentages say you take the FG and come back for the TD. Percentages were not in our favor AT THE TIME, and that is why it was, and always was, the wrong call.
Your correct JSHORE
Kicking the FG was the correct choice when looking at the odds. But our coaches know the odds. They simply tried to spark their team and bury the opposition early. Our defense was good enough to hold Miami.
The decision was against the odds. But that doesn’t make it wrong. It simply didn’t work.
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
You also have to remember we were well in there territory
and our defense this year has been fairly strong. It changes the odds a bit when you believe you have a good chance of stopping them as well.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
uuhhh, purplejesuz...
Then he goes for it on 4th down and 2 in the first quarter in the other teams territory with a run. I get frustrated when it doesnt work. kind of wishing he would have thrown it.
i really hate to mention this….
Pass or Run? …We got the best back in the league and a very physical O-line. Lets run it. I wasn’t thinking this at the time but it makes complete sense. I guess its just getting caught up in the moment.…but they did pass on that play:
.
The pass option: They probably aren’t expecting a pass. We could easily hit a quick slant and probably convert it.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/minnesota-vikings/09000d5d81aaa7dd/Dolphins-defense-4th-down-failed
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
two points about the play call
first- It is always prudent to get the first points of the game. To not give the other team momentum and to go about your business. Take the points.
second- If you choose to be assertive then you probably have to continue that aggressive call the rest of the game. We did that. We went for the 4th down play each time.
I can certainly 2nd guess the first call. But I can’t second guess the other 4th down calls. But its important to note that all were set up by the first very aggressive call.
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
by lifelongvike on Sep 29, 2010 5:47 AM CDT up reply actions
i hear what you are saying, though i differ a little. i'll try to expand on it.
I can certainly 2nd guess the first call. But I can’t second guess the other 4th down calls. But its important to note that all were set up by the first very aggressive call.
but the first call did not set up the other calls. it was an entirely different context. i do not think it had any bearing on the style of playcalling throughout the game. it didn’t work.
1st qtr. 4th-2, MIA26 9:27 B. Favre incomplete pass down the middle
this is a no brainer, take the points, you take the lead and establish that you can score.
4th qtr. 4th-1, MIA31 10:16 N. Tahi rushed up the middle for 1 yard gain
this was questionable, it was we were down 14-7. we need 2 scores to get the lead. this is at the outer range of longwell, but he is accurate and in a dome. not making the 4th and 1 would send a bad message and allow miami to establish dominance. i would have taken the shot at the fg. but, we ran tahi? and he was given a very generous spot to barely give us a first down. the result, we kicked a fg anyway on 4th and 9 from the 11, and after eating up another 2:20 of time. i’d say miami had shown that they were tougher than our o-line. chilly pushed his luck and didn’t get the td.
4th qtr. 4th-1, MIA1 2:16 A. Peterson rushed to the right for no gain
i don’t question going for it here, but i question the playcalling leading up to this 4th and 1. we threw a bomb (i.e. int) on 1st down at our own 35 with 6:10 left. we got lucky once again cuz miami coughed it up for us at their 25yl. then their were a series of runs. there was a lack of creativity in play calling, and we completely telegraphed our play at the goal line. adrian tried to cut back, and linebackers were free and unaccounted for to stop him. it would have been nice to mix up a screen pass, some misdirection, an end around or a shot at a tight end on that little 24 yard drive.
4th qtr. 4th-6, MIA27 0:33 B. Favre incomplete pass down the middle
we were in desperation mode. there was no choice but to go for it on 4th down with 33 seconds left. too bad the o-line couldn’t block any better to give the qb a chance to find his receivers on that drive.
we were 1-4 on 4th down attempts for the game.
1st – bad call, take the fg. has no bearing on the rest of the game playcalling.
2nd – i would take the fga, we got lucky on the spot. we kicked a fg anyway.
3rd – we kind of had to at that point. too bad we didn’t mix up the playcalling on the drive.
4th – had no choice with 33 seconds left, we needed a td.
i think each play had a different context. and these are just my opinions.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
We don't disagree much
You have expanded the parameters of my comment but I get your point. I’m not critisizing the particular play called. At the time I was screaming for another run by AP on the first 4th down attempt. Why? It had already worked for the entire drive. But I see the change-up as being an OK call. But like you I would have taken the three points.
2nd time. We are now behind. Why? Because we didn’t take the original three points and kick off. Maybe Miami would have scored. But with a we are winning attitude, maybe not. Anyway we are now behind because we committed to going for 4th and 2. If you think your team can make a 4th and 2 you have to go for 4th and inches. Especially when the field goal is in outer range limit. I say do it because you need points not a FG miss. Do it because you can. BTW. I thought AP should run the ball. But I’m not pissing about the change up. Everyone wanted Beville to be imaginative. I guess he listened. I just want to be effective.
Third time- I wanted to win the game. Period. Used our best man. No complaints
4th time. – Desperation. Farve looked like Farve. I just wanted a first down. Throw the ball shorter and surer. But if he saw the guy open then so be it. He’s my QB . I take the good with the bad.
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
by lifelongvike on Sep 29, 2010 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions
wow, i'm still bitter about that game...we could have won!
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Well your a Viking.
If you can’t get over games you should have won ( how many big games can I list) then I suggest professional counseling. Or my personal favorite. Single malt scotch.
But you know, kickers do miss field goals, QBs do get intercepted, and teams do fail to score on occasion. Teams win and teams lose. I try and never blame any one call or player. Blame the o-Line, not the play caller. Blame the secondary for allowing Miami to score. Its a team game. The coaches got us in position to win. I really can’t ask more than that of them.
Just not enough in this game to lose much sleep over. Especially with a good single malt.
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
by lifelongvike on Sep 29, 2010 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions
well, i'm not much of a drinker. but i won't mind having one when we win :).
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
by jethrophet on Sep 29, 2010 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
There you go. A rec to that.
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
by lifelongvike on Sep 29, 2010 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Shooting yourself in the foot !
It may not be fair to analyze Sully with his injuries . But since you are throwing him under the bus ? How many times in2010 did we fail to convert on fourth down when Sully was in the game ? Too many !!! And with R. Cook ? We performed much much better . The best Red Zone production I believe . That was Detroit . If we get 150 and RedZone production . I’d say you will be supporting a guy that backs off his claims . As he does often to my credit .
by gothicpurple on Oct 6, 2010 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Let's tell the truth: We don't know yet.
Most of the team looked good against Detroit. We will have a much better idea based on how well the OL performs vs. the Jets.
This post is proof that Vikings fans are eager to jump onto any bandwagon of the hour, even if it is someone like Ryan F. Cook (I have no idea if that’s really his middle initial or not.), and are therefore the best fan base in the NFL.
Thanks for the correction Jethro
I see we did pass. My bad. We went for it on so many 4th downs I got them mixed up. Either that or I should drink one less before the game starts. I agree KC Viking we don’t know yet. But I don’t see where Sione Pouha or Howard Green of the Jets will be that much more of a test then suh or korey williams. Thats just me. Even if their is a difference, the Lions DT’s are no slouches.
I don’t want you to think I’m jumping on Cooks bandwagon, but its something worth noting when your starting center goes out and the back-up doesnt seem to miss a beat. Especially when his intended position is at Tackle. All I’m saying is the coach and D coordinator have to make a tough decision. A healthy Cook or a 80 or even 90% Sullivan.
Welp good convo fellas.
Skol
no problem, i hope i didn't offend. i agree on your take about cook. how can you sit him now?
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Better question
What has the Jon “the tallest hobbit in the shire” Sullivan ever done besides get ROFLSTOMPED by any DT better than average quality? I saw physical strength and a nasty streak from Cook, something Sully hasn’t ever shown us. If Cook continues to play like that, you have to give him the starting nod.
by Jepp The Viking on Sep 30, 2010 11:34 AM CDT reply actions
When Artis Hicks played so well as back-up everything last year
not one person thought he should replace a starter.
How can you not want a great alternative to several positions to be available? Lets be happy we finally found the replacement for Artis. I really think Ryan looked OK simply because we played Detroit.
I mean did you see AP’s 80 yard run. The nose tackle never even touched Ryan Cook. Ryan had free reign to the LB.
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
Because Cook actually showed talent out ther?
Yes we played detroit however Detroit has quite a few sacks. They are actually 3rd in the NFL with 11 sacks. How many did they have against Minnesota? Suh is a man child he has two sacks to his name already, fairly difficult from the DT position. So I don’t have a problem stating that Cook did a good job against him. Suh is also a big boy, getting holes open for AD obviously happened keeping Suh out of his way did as well. I’m not saying that he is the second coming, but I do believe he has more physical attributes than Sully has and honestly if we are going to be running more this year a large center is a good thing to have.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
I think Cook is better in the run game and Sullivan is better in the pass game.
Cook’s a good mauler but is a little less nimble than Sullivan. If we keep riding the running game I think we should stick with Cook and let Sullivan get healthy for later in the season when our passing game warms up.
by CanadianViking on Oct 2, 2010 12:08 AM CDT up reply actions
This makes sense to me as well
Although at Center I wouldn’t think you needed to be that nimble since you have guards on your shoulders.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
I keep forgetting we have another Cook on this team
I was about to respond to this with, “I think it would be better to keep Cook at cornerback”
"Baseball is the only major sport that appears backward in a mirror" ~George Carlin
by thewild_viking_twins on Sep 30, 2010 6:59 PM CDT reply actions
Lets try Ryan Cook at CB. He seems like he can play anywhere? :)
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
Two Cooks in the kitchen, three Williams in the wall : )
by CanadianViking on Oct 2, 2010 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions
Griffi(e)ns atop a building
and Hendersons ( can someone do something with Henderson?)
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
I would say and AD can do it all as it rhymes
Two Cooks in the kitchen, three Williams in the wall : )
Griffi(e)ns atop a building
and the Hendersons stop the ball.
(or and AD can do it all )
Alas I am no Elgar my composition is just a compilation of confusion.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Well, very few are Edgar quality. But I liked it, none the less.
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
by lifelongvike on Oct 4, 2010 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions
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