A Vikings 3-4 Defense
by Curtis2012 on Sep 7, 2010 11:58 AM CDT
Email
PrintAs we all know,the 3-4 defense is dominating the NFL right now.Even though a 3-4 defensive team did not win the super bowl last season (Saints were a 4-3),it showed dominance.With Pat Williams getting older,Leslie Frazier might need to consider a change,a change to the 3-4. The 3-4 means 3 defensive linemen and 4 linebackers.
So this is my dream defensive lineup(minus all current injuries)
Defensive Line:
RDE:Jared Allen
LDE:Ray Edwards
Shock and AWE pretty much
I pick Kevin over Pat because hes faster and younger,also I would still put Pat in alot during games,also don't forget about Jimmy Kennedy and Fred Evans. And when It comes to the Defensive ends,Brian Robison is going to be BEAST in a few years(Learning from Jared Allen),Everson Griffin has potenial and Jayme Mitchell can be there for insurance.
Linebackers:
OLB: Chad Greenway
MLB #1: E.J. Henderson
MLB #2: Jasper Brinkley
OLB: Ben Leber
Brinkley showed promise last year and the other 3 are no brainers (If E.J. can stay healthly)
Secondary:
CB: Antoine Winfield
FS: Madieu Williams
SS: Tyrell Johnson
CB: Cedric Griffin
Pretty Much no brainers again,maybe put Cook in for height and and Sanford in for some big hits
So that's my 3-4 lineup,what are ya'll thoughts on it(agree,disagree),what's your 3-4 lineup?
GO VIKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.
26 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Kevin Williams
isnt’ big enough in my opinion to play NT in a 3-4. The NT needs to be able to get push on two blocks are once to collapse the pocket. Plus your OLB need to be really good in blitzing. Keven projects more as a DE on a 3-4 line. If you are going to really run a 3-4 defense well and be successful, you need to have the ability to play hybrid and have a flex DE/LB that can do both plus a pile moving NT. Otherwise it doesn’t really work.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 7, 2010 12:09 PM CDT reply actions
I understand what your saying
as I was typing this post,I thought about putting K.Williams at DE and just having Allen and the Williams Wall with Edwards being the ultra-used backup.
unfortunately
we simply don’t have the personnel because next year Pat is gone. We would need to find a replacement for him as well as draft some more linebackers to properly make the switch.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 7, 2010 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree that Pat would have done well . He is a better 3-4 Nose than 4-3 IMO .
I dis agree about OLB’s . Ray , Robison , E. Griffen , E. Henderson could all perfom well in the scheme . I mentioned this subject to LLV long ago when wanting to move up in the second for the USC MLB that went to CIN I believe . And Kirk Morrison who was traded to JAX . Udeze would have been a great LDE in this scheme .
The drawbacks . Winfiend and C . Cook will be good in man-on-man . But the others wound struggle . We would need a dynamic FS with Rambo like instincts to pull it off . Sanford is growing . But we would need a Berry or Thomas . Some of our depth DTs would have trouble converting as they are still under sized . Guion is still growing . But could Kennedy convert .
Good luck with brad . He likes his COVER 2 .
We try that already
Kevin did not do very well. That is why we switch back to 4-3
by vikefansd on Sep 7, 2010 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
That defensive line wouldn’t work. Allen and Edwards, along with guys like Robison would have to be outside linebackers. Your defensive ends would essentially be the defensive tackles in your 4-3 defense. You need big 300+ lb. guys at the ends to essentially take up up space and clog the gaps. Greenway and Leber probably would have to be inside linebackers as I doubt either provides much of a pass rush.
I don’t understand why many of you guys want to change schemes (I’ve read this idea from other members on here as well). As long as you have Kevin Williams and Jared Allen you’ll be able to run the cover two scheme you do. Improving your safety play would probably go a long way in improving the scheme too. In my opinion, neither Williams or Johnson are anything more then average.
by packallday555 on Sep 7, 2010 12:38 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Not the perfect dimensions but both are talanted enough . And strong enough off the ball .
You use a 340 lbs guy as a DE . The size works . But you lose the ability to have a quick first step . He can’t run sideline to sideline . And his bull rush isn’t effective from the outside . Yet you place Pickett their . Maybe beccause he makes adjustments . But to look from the outside in he is far from a good fit . Yet I believe he is athletic enough to make it work .
Eh, I don’t think so. What is Allen, 270 lbs.? Could he really hold up against constant double teams? He’s already not very strong against the run when just facing the left tackle. What makes you think he could hold up against the run when facing a tackle and guard?
by packallday555 on Sep 7, 2010 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Allen is as complete a 4-3 DE as they come
He doesn’t come out on goal line or short yardage situations because he IS stout against the run.
But I do agree with you, we are not a 3-4 ready team.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
We'd have to move everyone around
Go look at teams that run the 3-4 then look at the stats their D line puts up. What you can’t see any stats? That’s because all they are supposed to do is cover up the offensive line men so that the line backers can work through. Even if Allen sas big enoug it would be a tremendous waste as I don’t think he could pass cover well at all. As welll KW is a solid inside man he can split a seam like no other sticking him in a 3-4 would make him have to tie up the linemen instead.
Our linebackers are not rushers.
our Cb’s are not man covers
and our safeties are well they would be about the same however in cover 2 the safeties are interchangable I don’t think we have a solid strong safety on our team.
Our defense has one thing going for it. Everyone on the field hits like a truck. We are built for a 4-3 and we do it well. The grass is always greener but you have to remember they just fertilized it. :D
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
This has already been discussed a few times.
The Vikings do not have the personnel to pull off this kind of switch right now, and why would we even consider switching a defensive scheme that the Defensive Coordinator is well-versed in?
That is like saying “Hey Leslie, you are a great defensive coordinator, but I want you to be the offensive line coach from now on.”
Think about it, we don’t have a legitimate NT option other than Fat Pat and he is gone next year. While JA and KW might work well as DE’s in a 3-4, Ray Edwards would be buried because he can’t play linebacker and then what would we do with all the other guys we have?
We have defensive depth that is built for the 4-3. if we switched to a 3-4 most of our DT backups become useless and our backup DE’s are too small to play DE in an 3-4.
Not to mention the fact that we have 7 linebackers and 9 D-linemen and switching to a 3-4 would make us short on linebackers and overstocked on D-linemen.
Actually they do
But it is a terrible terrible idea. What they would need to do is:
Pat and Kennedy at NT
KWill, Mitchel, Evans, and Guion would have to be DE, maybe Griffen as well.
Allen, Robison, and Edwards would ALL have to be LBs. No ifs ands or buts.
AKA it is possible, but would be stupid for the Vikes to try at this time. They would be putting their best playmakers in spots they just won’t do that well in (coverage for Allen/Edwards – they can’t always blitz)
BTW
This is exactly why any talk of a DE trade to NE is ludicrous. It would have to be a guy with a little speed but big enough to play a DT in our scheme – meaning a DE for them. K-Will is essentially the same build as Seymour was for the Pats.
its a little harder than just sticking guys in positions...
For example, the main purpose of a DE in a 3-4 formation is to stop the run and occupy blockers. DTs role doesn’t change THAT much…but you want BIG guys in these positions. That is why you see GB beefing up with 300 lbers all over on the line. Allen and Edwards are ALL wrong for this formation and they would actually translate into Linebackers who are the blitzers in that formation. You don’t change into the 3-4 just cause you are losing a DT after this year, you do it because you want to come with a different kind of defensive formation and because your guys are suited for it.
Yeh, this...really wouldn't work.
In the 3-4, your DLine is three really big guys good at collapsing the pocket so the OLBs can rush the passer.
Wrong personnel
Allen and Edwards would have to move to LB which would be a waste of their talent. Think of how much worse Kampman looked when he made this switch. Once Pat leaves we don’t have a 3-4 nose tackle on the roster and Kevin wouldn’t be getting any pass rush as he’s be tying up blockers at a DE spot.
The 3-4 is popular right now but these things go in cycles and we’re in a good spot. I think the league is about 50/50 right now between 3-4 and 4-3 but in a couple years the 4-3 will be in the minority which helps to make it more effective. 3-4 was really effective a few years ago when not very many teams were running it but it’s becoming less and less effective due to it’s popularity and the leagues growing familiarity with how to beat it.
curtis2012, our defensive personel was selected for the 4-3 scheme.
they are not ideally suited for the 3-4 scheme. the positions are specialized and the athletic attributes of players differs from 4-3 to 3-4. that is, of course a general statement. however, if you compare the physical/athletic attributes of our front 7 with these wiki-link articles, it makes a bit more sense…
i thought these were good explanations:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4-3_defense
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-4_defense
also we run a cover 2 in the d-backfield:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampa_Cover_2
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Awful Awful idea
Basically with this alignment you would ruin the careers of most of your defense. JA would be too small to be a DE in a 3-4 and you would move him from attacking the QB to preventing a run a clogging space. Same with Edwards.
The K Williams idea for NT is even worse. What makes Kevin Williams dominate is his ability to shoot the gap and rush from inside. A 3-4 NT takes on two guys and holds the line. He’s not built for that, in fact that’s why you have P Williams in the first place. He holds the line and allows K Williams to try and shoot through the A gap in order to bring pressure from the middle.
The OLB position is also different between the two. In reality you would move JA outside there. Greenway would move inside with Henderson and maybe have Leber take the other OLB spot.
Bottom line is this: learn why your defense is great instead of just taking it for granted. I don’t mean to be a prick, but reading this shows that you don’t get why your D-line is awesome and just assume that these guys can be moved around willy nilly instead of seeing the piece of art that has been crafted by your FO. The front 7 of the Vikings is the right mix of scheme and talent and chucking it on a whim is a horrible, horrible idea.
by PackApologist on Sep 7, 2010 2:43 PM CDT reply actions 6 recs
Can't improve on that sentiment- A big Rec
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
I guess this is the last thing I want to think about right now. Maybe nine months ago, and maybe 9 weeks from now (though I would still not be that interesting in it even then, personally). But 48 hours before the season opener? I can’t think of a time of the year that I am less interested in evaluationg any major changes to my football team than then. Sorry.
OK
It’s not like I want it to happen,I was just thinking about what would it look like,I think the Scheme we got right now is awesome but hey,what if we do switch to a 3-4 in the next few years,it may work,it may not work,plus,I’m not talking about switching it this year.
I think
Going to a 3-4 would be horrific for your team. Granted some teams are beginning to show a resurgence in using the schemes, I do not see them being extremely successful. You have got to have a huge space eater for a NT, and I don’t see Williams being that guy. Allen would suffer coming of the blind side because he was down one member of a Williams Wall. Edwards would also suffer. Those guys are your Defense’s bread and butter, and I, for one, would not like to cut either of their throats in going to a 3-4 over the current 4-3. I also think it would hurt your run stopping abilities in the long run as well.
Underestimate No One, Take Nothing For Granted
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Daily Norseman
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
