We are drafting #12.
by Odin on Jan 3, 2011 1:02 PM CST
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PrintThat is according to NFL.com.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81d6b708/article/first-20-picks-of-2011-nfl-draft-determined?module=HP_spotlight
I checked a few mock draft sites* and they had us taking Jake Locker-QB, Wash. In both drafts, Locker was the 4th QB taken. (Luck, Newton and Mallet were taken ahead of Locker) Now I know this is way too early and QB's are typically over-rated at this time of year. But from the numerous mocks I saw last week, many mockers (50%?) have Locker going to us. I am reserving judgement for now; I just find it interesting.
*these mocks were dated today but had us drafting #14. Which means they did their mock b4 yesterday's games. Still; the other 3 QB's were all taken in the top 10. And it is not a guarantee that it is a QB we will take with our choice.
This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.
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Makes no sense...
Why would you waste a top 15 pick on a Qb which has shown nothing but the ability to run. We have that in Webb, and he is faster and at least has proven that he can throw. I was at the Nebraska/UW game on Thursday (My huskers lost :’( ) and locker was awful (5 for 19). Without Polk, Nebraska wins that game.
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again, Draft O-line.
i saw locker play the other night too. i wouldn't pick him in the top 100 picks, and then only as a back up.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Literally
JUST said this in my fanpost earlier today. Amen.
"I run to daylight when I see an opening." - Adrian All Day Peterson
by bleedpurple426 on Jan 3, 2011 10:56 PM CST up reply actions
Couldn't agree with you more!
For once, a QB is not a pressing need for us. We have plenty of other area’s…..or holes in our lines to worry about in the draft. Webb is a QB and rather see him as a QB, not wasted as a WR as some are so stuck on.
Vikings 2010: Episode 2, A New Hope - The Alliance for Vikings sanity have struck back. The evil Childress has been fired. Hope has been reinstated with the naming of Frazier as Head Coach.
I think you are jumping on the Webb experiment a bit harder than you need to
He didn’t have terrible games, but he also wasn’t the next Payton Manning either. His numbers were not great even in his win against the Eagles. Do I think he is an interesting prospect for QB? Sure, I still think however that he might be best used as a receiver as I really don’t think his chances of being a starting QB are that high.
I may be wrong about this, but so might you. Just because he’s better than TJ doesn’t mean much, a Monkey crapping a football is better than TJ….
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
I think Webb can excel if properly developed.
Even if by some miracle Andrew Luck fell to us in the draft, he would need a solid QB coach to develop into a premier NFL talent. Regardless who we have under center we need that guy!
Luck and Newton may not declare
Much too early to make QB pick assumptions. It’s fun to speculate, but don’t get too hung up on it.
They both should declare
Luck should have learned from Locker about what returning could potentially do to your stock
and with Harbaugh unlikely to return next season, I don’t think Luck would want to spend his senior year learning a new system
as for Newton, I don’t think he’ll be able to repeat this performance next year, especially in a conference like the SEC, he should declare while his stock is still high
"Baseball is the only major sport that appears backward in a mirror" ~George Carlin
by thewild_viking_twins on Jan 4, 2011 12:08 PM CST up reply actions
Luck is a sophmore
So he might stick around. Cam may stick around as well if they owners and players can’t get their crap together.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Luck's a junior
I don’t think he’d even be eligible if he was a sophomore
"Baseball is the only major sport that appears backward in a mirror" ~George Carlin
by thewild_viking_twins on Jan 4, 2011 12:28 PM CST up reply actions
Not to be that guy...
But Luck is a third year Sophmore…Grime was right.
Damn the redshirt, it makes analysis tricky.
SKOL VIKES!!!
Luck may not
Cam is gone. His family is too much of a money hunger people that they will not pass up a chance. The thruth is he is only in college for football.
Luck is smart. The guy is take architectural engineer. He also have a 3.75 from Standford.
Funny nobody use to listen to us Cali
I said long ago and that he’d be the man in the Rose Bowl. Who ever takes him in the NFL is getting the real deal.
@}-----You've been Touched-----{@
Dalton
Showed he was the best QB in a Boel game. We could get him if we traded some players for picks a trade those to get into the 3rd and get Dalton
I say we address the O-line and 2 positions covered by taking Pouncy from Florida #1 Center on the board who can play Guard or OT. But, sully is not playing liek a premeir Center. He gets blown out and van’t open holes for AD. He gets manhandled. If he improves you got a man blocking driver in Poucy to play on the line. I think Pouncy would be the Center we need. Most of the time we broke there and over on Mckinnys side+ Move Loady to his natural left side. Pick the best OT in the nd or see who we can ink in FA
Overhauls better be coming. I expect a little more off season moves by the Vikings. Send Max to Miami. We got a steal in Mekko, How bout we trade Barrian and McKinny foir Devone Bess
AKA : Revenge4Webb
by CitrusFLViking on Jan 5, 2011 2:46 AM CST up reply actions
Ilove you Citrus but here's who we need -
Colin Koepernick – This gut is amazing. Dalton’s awesome too nut Coloin bring a whole new other realm to the game. Just my opinion.
The 12th pick is an awesome spot
But No! If we feel the qb’s arent’ worth the pick Get O-Line!!! Heck I’d trade a few players/future picks to get some good o-line either from other teams or through the draft.
Trade B.Mckinney
Replace him and Loadholt
Most pressure come from the outside and our o-line struggles to pick it up and often facemask or hold when get beat. And especailly with J.Webb as the Qb, or anyone else for that matter, we need to protect his blindsides.
I have never wanted to draft an O-Lineman before as much as i did this year. Too bad Chilly spent our 3rd rounder on crap, but hopefully we can get a good pick for B.Mciknney.
☠★☪My dream, is to see the Minnesota Vi♛s win a superbowl. USA- the land were dreams come true. ☀ ツ This is our ۩۩house۩
by UnBannedVikingholic on Jan 3, 2011 2:58 PM CST reply actions
As for grammar cops
Just ignore the mistakes. This is just an opinionated comment not a front page of a magazine.
☠★☪My dream, is to see the Minnesota Vi♛s win a superbowl. USA- the land were dreams come true. ☀ ツ This is our ۩۩house۩
by UnBannedVikingholic on Jan 3, 2011 3:00 PM CST up reply actions
Why would we replace loadholt?
He is not the cause of our O-line problems. It is our inexperienced interior line, especially the fact that Hutch has been injured for almost two years straight.
He is slower, but he only get’s beat to the outside so much because he is trying to help compensate for our weak interior.
I agree.
Mckinnie and Loadholt get a ton of flack around here but I think a lot of their problems stem from our weakness at guard and center. Hutch, Sullivan, and Hererra have all been injured frequently and the only one I have any confidence in is Hutchinson. Mckinnie and Loadholt aren’t great but I think they look worse because of how bad Hererra and Sullivan have been as well as Hutch’s inconsistency due to injuries.
by CanadianViking on Jan 3, 2011 3:34 PM CST up reply actions
Herrera was good this year.
Sullivan probably needs to be replaced, although in his defense he was battling an injury. That said, he’s not the caliber of center that we need from a physical standpoint.
Injuries definitely played a part in our interior lines play this year.
I thought Hererra was better at run-blocking this year compared to last but I thought he was worse in pass-protection. I find it hard to pinpoint the weak link in offensive line play because of how the players work together to cover up mistakes, but it seemed to me that both our tackles got beat outside often while trying to help out our guards with inside rushers. It’s also possible that Sullivan is the weak link and the whole line had to compensate for his weakness in the middle. Not sure what the fix is but the C/RG area of the line seemed to have the most problems to me.
by CanadianViking on Jan 3, 2011 5:44 PM CST up reply actions
We really need a better O Line coach.
We have solid players just no one to actually pick t hem up and make them better than what they are. We need Tice Jr…
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Frasier needs to put his stamp on it.
New coach needs new coordinators. We don’t know what kind of offense Leslie wants to install. We don’t know what his pure defensive strategy will be. We will know if and when he brings in new coordinators. New position coaches means he is changing concepts. Maybe from a zone blocking to power blocking on the O-Line.
None of us can know who will be the best draft prospects for the Vikes until we understand the needs of the coach.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
Maybe not such a good idea...
Considering that these new coaches and systems may have limited time to be put in place because of the CBA. Yeah, new offense and defense sounds good and without the labor situation I would probably be on that bandwagon. However, now is not the time to do that considering that a lot of good young pieces are still in place.
No choice
You have just hired a new coach. He will have his own ideas about the proper changes that need to take place to win. It has to happen unless the owner is dictating to the coach how to build and run a football team.
There is no question that some consistency occurs when you hire from within. But that is different than making no changes. I would think that most fans would welcome new offensive philosophies and some changes to the defense.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
Some changes yes... but NOT a complete overhaul.
by 92Y_VikesFan on Jan 4, 2011 10:45 AM CST up reply actions
Absolutely!
We have too much talent for a complete overhaul. An overhaul would leave us as the Packers of the ’80’s or the Lions of the ’00’s.
We have a young and impressive core of skilled players on offense. Let’s build around them AND GET THEM AN O-LINE!!!!!! On defense, we need to pick up a linebacker (I wish Leber would stay, but I doubt it) and some D-backs.
If we can seriously address those areas we are in contention for the division. It may not be 2009 magic, but we should be able to play with anyone out there.
What's interesting is from what i've been reading Frasier is looking at a bunch of different systems
he’s stating that he wants to look at the players we have and figure out how best to use them. If WCO doesn’t really suit our players then we’ll have to make changes. He wants mostly to be known as a hard nosed run team which makes me think he wont be going for Luck.
Also, it looks like Spielman will be a GM in all but name. He and Frazier have joint control over the roster now.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Well what else can he do
He might be looking at a team without Greenway, Leber, Rice, and Edwards.
All he can do is wait and figure out who will be there and who won’t. But if he is a coach he will implement his style and system. Sooner rather than later.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Jan 4, 2011 12:45 PM CST up reply actions
Well if he was Childress
He would tell everyone what they were good at then wonder why crap didn’t work better.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Without Greenway?
Not a chance in hell. Frazier has mentioned on many occasions how much he likes him.
Edwards and Leber might be gone though.
Rice… That all depends on him, if he wants to stay he will stay.
So what do you prefer us to draft?
☠★☪My dream, is to see the Minnesota Vi♛s win a superbowl. USA- the land were dreams come true. ☀ ツ This is our ۩۩house۩
by UnBannedVikingholic on Jan 3, 2011 3:39 PM CST up reply actions
Honestly this is one of the few times the Vikes have a draft this high
I think we should use it on a QB to help trade up for one or whatever.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Bundle the 12th with McKinnie, Madieu, and Berrian
Maybe some team will think McKinnie’s fall-off was abnormal
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Well we'll just tell them he has a personal trainer and is going to be in better shape next year...
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
I don't want Locker.
I’d like us to draft a QB in the first round but I don’t think any of the top three will be available when we pick. Luck is definitely out of our reach but maybe we’ll get lucky and Mallett or Newton will still be around when we pick. If all three are gone than I’d say we have to go offensive line, safety, wide receiver, outside linebacker in that order. I’ve heard this draft is pretty weak on O-line prospects and strong on defensive backs so maybe that’ll determine our first pick.
To early to speculate on who
The question is why do we like each prospect. Which one can run the new Leslie Frasier offense? Locker is, like Luck, Newton, anhd Mallet, Tall, big armed, and fast. He hasn’t won as much but he, like Jay Cutler, took an abysmally bad program to a bowl game. I don’t know yet, but I am interested.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
locker looked pretty bad in his consolation bowl.
and he looked up against his potential this year. i wouldn’t take in the 3rd round, even if we HAD a 3rd round pick (thanks to your fo).
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
i agree about locker. i don't want him for anything other than a back-up. i'm iffy on mallet and newton.
it seems mallet doesn’t play in conditions that resemble the nfl. big looooooong pockets, little pressure. and he is dubbed as “slow of foot” that means he will be a drop back fl qb, and how is he going to fair in the viking “2 second pocket”?
newton seems like a high risk, high reward type. i wonder if he will be able to translate his “biggest kid on the field” success to the nfl, where the men are men and the speed of the game is increased. plus, character issues exist for him. i hope he doesn’t turn out to be a prima donna. but the thought of newton and webb together on a roster along with percy, adrian, sydney and LARRY FITZGERALD sounds intruiging.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
I've tried to watch a little of the top 4 college QBs to get an idea of which ones would work in the NFL.
Obviously, I don’t really have any real criteria for choosing QBs other than what looks right to me but Luck and Mallett are the two that pass the eye test for me. Newton’s very intriguing but I agree with you that he’s a boom or bust guy and we already have Webb as a high potential/ high risk athletic prospect so I don’t see the need to add another QB in that mold.
Nothing I see in Locker makes me think he should be our QB. He looks like a 3rd/4th round QB that has first round tools and I really hope we stay away from him. Luck looks great but being realistic means that we won’t have any chance of getting him. That leaves Mallet. He’s got the best arm of the bunch in my opinion and isn’t as slow of foot as his reputation. He reminds me a lot of Flacco in arm strength and mobility. The one thing I’m concerned about with him is that I’ve heard he doesn’t handle pressure very well. I think if we’re getting a QB in the draft this year it should be Mallet in the first or somebody like Kaepernick/Mcelroy in the later rounds.
by CanadianViking on Jan 4, 2011 4:22 PM CST up reply actions
Pretty far from the 32'nd pick that we all wanted.
I’m sure the FO is happy that they’re not in the top 10. Those picks are expensive.
I think the Vikings are pleased with Webb at QB, so I don’t think they’ll draft a QB in the 1st rd, if at all.
With that said. The Vikings have like 17 FA’s and a few of them are starters, so who knows who they’re going to draft. :)
thinking like that is what got us into this mess in the first place.
People were complacent with TJ. This is a business people should understand that they will be forced to play for their jobs. Webb did a decent job when he was forced to play but I don’t think it was such an impressive show that we don’t need to think about picking someone up who can start for us. If Spidey still wants to be a QB he can try to beat out Mallet or whoever we pick up. Hoping someone will be good enough is not learning from history.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Every new coach lives and breathes with his QB.
It will be interesting to see if Frasier will hitch his future to Webb or want a new guy to mold into his vision.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
Hopefully he's smart enough to give himself several options.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Just like Childress
and every other coach. Get a QBOF. Then a veteran back-up and a developmental QB. But you have to have that QBOF. Childress just never believed that T-Jack was not that guy.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
Yeah but the development cycle of a QB may not be as long as the coaches tenure
So then you are end a kind of cycle where you keep getting the QB that the new coach wants.
Wilf needs to get his QB and tell the coach to develop him.
If he fires the coach then the next coach needs to continue that development.
You do not fire the coach and the QB IMO.
actually I kind of disagree with your idea of how to groom a QB
I’ve seen to many QB’s jump into the fire and do well lately to think you have to coddle them. As long as your team doesn’t completely rely on them and honestly we don’t.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Well if the owner is picking the QB then
your winning record should be identical to the Dallas Cowboys.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Jan 4, 2011 12:48 PM CST up reply actions
I do not think the owner should pick any players
However I do think once he has spent a draft pick and money on a guy that whomever was in the front office at the time drafted, that he should not let future decisions affect the development of said QB.
Lets say the Vikings draft Mallett for example and they bring him along slowly and in a few years they decide Frazier is not right.
When the new coach comes in and decides he does not like Mallett because he does not fit his offense (kind of like Rich Rodriguez), do you then let the new coach get rid of Mallett or decide not to use him?
This is what I am trying to say. Not that the owner chooses any player but once they do, that he make sure that all the coaches who he ever hires will work with the QB until it is clearly determined he is a bust.
Welp
that is the owners issue then. Before he hires said coach he (the owner) should know what the new coach is going to do with the team. If he doesn’t well the teams has bigger problems. So if the owner likes Mallet then he needs to find a coach that can work with him.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
I would agree with that.
Most teams reflect the head coach, not the owner. But if an owner hires a coach that has a different philosophy from before then the consequences are obvious. I would ASSume that Frasier was kept because the owner is happy with most of the present schemes and personnel. It would be very odd to see a housecleaning with the promotion of an coordinator/ assistant head coach.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
When your owner picks a QB
You end up in a situation like Tennessee, great coach about to get the axe because he, along with the rest of the NFL, doesn’t see Vince Young as a starting QB
"Baseball is the only major sport that appears backward in a mirror" ~George Carlin
by thewild_viking_twins on Jan 4, 2011 1:17 PM CST up reply actions
People were complacent with TJ.
huh? douchebag, er childress moved up to get his “diamond in the rough”. and then started bringing in qb’s left and right. that hardly seems like he was “complacent with tj”.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
the QB's he brought in were either very low picks or back up QB's
None of them had a shot to upset TJ’s place. So yeah the Vikings were complacent with TJ. Until you have a starting QB you should keep bringing in people who might start instead of him.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
i know what you think, but it doesn't sound right.
chilly made t-jack the starter.
chilly rosenfeidler and told him he could win the starting spot.
(he said they “coveted him for 2 years” and he never played our system).
chilly, meanwhile, went and got favre to come in and call the shots….
while t-jack and rosenclipboard became sideline fixtures.
if chilly was complacent, why go and get the other guys to be the starter?
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
p.s. i'm NOT defending chilly in any way, shape or form.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
If you read my post
I said go get Orton and keep Webb. I just don’t think Mallet or anyone else, other than Luck, is a guarantee or any better than Webb right now. Any rookie needs to learn the system and the speed of the pro game. Webb looked good in the Philly game. Hanging him for playing an average game 4 days later is unfair. he has all the skills that any of these top picks have and showed he has the potential.
Many mistakes can be made. Seems I remember you being one of those Jimmy Clausen fans last year too. How did that work out?
Actually I wasn't a big Clausen fan, was more on the McCoy band wagon
I understand you wanted Orton, and Webb as a back up is a decent idea (I might still move him to receiver or at least try him there a bit) What I was trying to get at was this. We don’t have a starting QB. Orton has been passed around quite a bit which leads me to think he’s not a franchise qb. Webb surely hasn’t shown us he’s franchise so we need to find someone who might be. Yeah there’s a risk, but the chance of failure is massively higher if you don’t even try.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Not much out there
Orton is the best of an average to bad group of FA’s. I certainly don’t want McNabb.
On the draft front, I keep hearing this Missouri kid’s name and looking at his stats I say “what? why?”
Locker? Maybe… Mallet? Maybe, but reminded me of Favre there at the end of the bowl game…
I agree that we have more pressing needs for our first round pick than QB, but it’s always tough to pass up a potential QBOTF (especially with our highest pick since who knows when…and I’m sure one of y’all knows when).
That said, I hope that Frazier pushes for a late round QB and a journeyman QB as a back up to Webb. I am not convinced that Webb is the answer, but I think he deserves a chance to show whether he is or not (not as many chances as Childepressed gave T-Jack though). But whoever is the QB next year will be conversing with the D-line in the backfield all season long if we don’t either get Birk back or drastically change the O-line.
GET RID OF MCKINNEY, YESTERDAY!!!!!!!
McKinney has stated he will lose 20 pounds in an attempt to increase his speed and endurance
He has hired a personal trainer that will be with him at all times even on vacation. So I think we can leave McKinney alone one more year.
Also Frasier cannot make conditioning with the team mandatory, but he has asked all the players to come together as a team for a good chunk of the off season and they have stated they will do it. Hopefully with better conditioning we’ll see less injuries and we’ll see more team work.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
McKinney has stated he will lose 20 pounds in an attempt to increase his speed and endurance He has hired a personal trainer that will be with him at all times even on vacation. So I think we can leave McKinney alone one more year.
i’ll believe it if i see it. until then mckinnie still sucks. i say demote him to right tackle and get a real left tackle in here. there is no way in hell i would give this guy a pass for “one more year”.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Absolutely the best line of the thread. Thanks for that laugh.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Jan 4, 2011 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
He said the same thing last year.
On his twitter account. I’m not going to go back and search for it.
by PurplePeopleEaters on Jan 4, 2011 1:24 PM CST up reply actions
No send Webb to WR
How can anyone be happy with Webb. He will not developed. Don’t kid ourself. We need a pocket passer. Please no more running QB. I had enough of tjoke now it is Webb god help me NO MORE.
We need a pocket passer.
pocket passers get absolutely crushed behind our o-line. i’d rather have a guy who is mobile enough to move outside the pocket and extend the play, someone who can actually run designed roll outs.
i think webb is smart and can handle pressure. he can extend plays and see the field. he is a rookie,
so i expect mistakes. plus, the guy can throw a sweet pass. i say keep him at qb and let him develop and earn his way up the depth chart.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
I wanted Webb at WR in the beginning of the year,
I’m not sure why the Vikes didn’t move him when they were so desperate for a WR. My guess is, he can’t catch. There must be something wrong with him if the Vikes decided that Baskett was a better option.
After seeing Webb in a few games, I’ve already decided that he’s better than T-Jack, and that kinda says a lot for a guy who was just kinda thrown in the mix. I think Webb deserves another look.
IMO, we need O-line first. A good O-line will make any QB better.
I think the Vikings were pleased with Webb, and they sound like they’re interested in R.Bomar as well.
Whether they draft a QB early, or stick with what they have, they’re going to have a noobie playing QB in 2011. And every noobie QB needs a solid O-line.
I’m not sure why the Vikes didn’t move him when they were so desperate for a WR. My guess is, he can’t catch.
they moved him to qb because they saw him tossing the ball around before practice and were so impressed that they had him throw in drills and were so impressed that they decided to move him to qb in training camp and were so impressed that they ditched rosencopter and kept him on as #3 qb.
but, he wasn’t invited to the combine in spite of his awesome numbers in college, but he was invited to the senior bowl as a wr where he wowed people with his play. he also held a pro day where he posted numbers better than most of the receivers at the combine.
the vikes got hank baskett after they moved webb to qb and after they realized that sydney rice was not going to be available. i agree that webb deserves another look and that every newbie qb needs a good o-line.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Great. That gives you a 30% chance of success.
That equates to a 70% chance of failure. Is that what you want for the Vikings?
Hey, Gabbert is moving up in the expectations list of most draftnicks. He might truly be rated as a first round pick. My question is this. Would you take Gabbert in the first? If he isn’t good enough to be rated as a first rounder then don’t go for him. 9 of 12 play-off QBs are first rounders this year. Coincidence? I think not.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
9 of 12 play-off QBs are first rounders this year. Coincidence? I think not.
True. But the best one of all of them was a 6th rounder, so….
At #12 we are out of the Luck sweepstakes. It would cost too much (future draft picks and/or current starters,which set us back a few years) to swing a trade to move up that many spots. The only other first-round prospects at the QB position are Ryan Mallet, Cam Newton and Jake Locker, none of which are going to be true “franchise QB’s.” When you add it all up you have to stick to the BPA approach. In this years draft that will probably be a defensive back or a defensive linemen. Or hopefully a stud offensive lineman will be there at 12.
As far as the QB situation in 2011, it looks like we currently only have one QB returning in Joe Webb. I believe he has earned the right to compete for the job. As far as who he competes with I hope that one is a veteran. And not the Gus or Sage type, but rather the Carson or Donovan type, you know someone that has a few probowls under his belt. Then they should also draft a QB 2nd round or later. Since Kellen Moore is returning to school for his senior year, I would like to see Delaware’s Pat Devlin or ’Bama’s Greg McElroy drafted. Andy Dalton was impressive as well. I was not impressed with Blane Gabbert’s play in his bowl game, specifically I think his mechanics, e.g. his footwork need a complete overhual for the NFL game.
"Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthend, ambition inspired, and success achieved."
-Helen Keller
Sorry, NMVike. My next post was a response to you
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Jan 4, 2011 10:00 AM CST up reply actions
Not a fair statement
True. But the best one of all of them was a 6th rounder, so….
1 out of the past 132 drafted QBs and all undrafted QBs in the last ten years comes close to being called a possible multiple SB winner. That guy is Matt Cassel. If I include Brady then its 2 out of the last 144 drafted players in 11 years.
Tom Brady was not a shrewd pick. He was a fortunate pick. New England almost passed on him in the 6th for another obscure QB. He was not evaluated by anyone as being a great QB. The Vikings need to evaluate and obtain a QB. Hope is not a good investment strategy or a way of obtaining a Franchise QB. Now, if Webb is a QBOF then the Vikings are indeed lucky and should capitalize on their blessings.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
Gabbert is moving up in the expectations list of most draftnicks.
gabbert declared for the draft yesterday. the news bit i heard said he was the second qb behind luck on draft pundits boards.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
McShay has Gabbert going 5th overall in his latest mock.
I don’t think he’s the 5th best player in this draft. No way. 2nd best QB, maybe, but 5th is too high IMO.
"Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthend, ambition inspired, and success achieved."
-Helen Keller
maybe mcshay said that just to get eddie munster's blood pressure going early.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
It would cost too much (future draft picks and/or current starters,which set us back a few years) to swing a trade to move up that many spots. The only other first-round prospects at the QB position are Ryan Mallet, Cam Newton and Jake Locker, none of which are going to be true "franchise QB’s."
I will have to defer to your evaluation of the first round talent. I cannot say with certainty that Mallet, Newton, or Locker will not give the Vikes a chance to win multiple SBs. I also have no clue as to how much is to much to give for Luck. I would pay a lot. One healthy Brett Farve showed us what a great QB means to a team. What is the cost of not having one?
Little chance of winning a SB.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
Locker: The biggest draw backs with him are his accuracy and durability. Those two traits are difficult to correct. I hate to bash the kid for playing for a crappy program for most of his career but he also didn’t win very much. I think he’s a good kid and a tremendous athlete. But he has not shown the poise or accuracy to be “the guy.”
Newton and Mallet: With these guys its more about the intangibles. Physically it’s hard not to be impressed. Both are 6’5"+. Newton is one of the best athletes in college football today. Mallet has a very strong arm. But I question their football IQ, Mallet’s mental toughness and Newton’s character. There are too many examples in recent memory such as Jamarcus Russell and Ryan Leaf not to ingnore those question marks.
As far as trading up for Luck, let me say that I am not opposed to it. The kid is going to be special. I would definately be interested in finding out what it would cost to get him. I mean if Carolina was willing to trade their #1 for our #12 + Bernard Berrian and Madieu Williams, then I’d be all over it. But I doubt that happens.
"Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthend, ambition inspired, and success achieved."
-Helen Keller
Unfortunately they would ask for AP and that is so totally a deal breaker...
With that being said, and just for the sake of a good discussion, would you give up Harvin or Rice or both to get Luck?
by 92Y_VikesFan on Jan 4, 2011 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
Yes
Receivers are replaceable. But Sidney is a free agent now. Carolina simply needs to draft Luck and hire Sidney Rice.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Jan 4, 2011 11:00 AM CST up reply actions
No I don't think I would give up Harvin
It defeats the purpose. Who would Luck throw to?
"Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthend, ambition inspired, and success achieved."
-Helen Keller
I would give up AD if I knew Luck was the next Tom Brady/Payton Manning
But since I don’t know that and only have an educated opinion on it I would give up Jared Allen for him in a heartbeat. If they wanted Sydney Rice I would package him as well (although we don’t have his contract as of now..)
High caliber QB’s don’t come out of college that often and we don’t get high draft picks that often. When the two of these things match up, well you have to make your play.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Paying the Piper
I’m thinking the price could be more like…
This year’s 1st, next year’s 1st, and Jared Allen.
And as much as I love Jared, I’d pull the trigger if Luck is coming out this year.
But for any of the others? No. And if Luck is waiting til next year, then the Vikings should go with the O-line with the #12 pick.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
No one is giving you value for your trash.
They might however want your #1 pick next year and a player like Jared Allen. The Jets gave up their first and second pick t and three players to move from #17 to #5 for a QB. To move from #12 to #1 will cost more than that. Think in terms of what the Giants gave up to go from #4 to #1 to get Manning. They gave up this years 1st and third and next years 1st and fifth.
Certainly it will cost more to move from #12 to #1. That is why everyone talks about Jared Allen being thrown in the deal.
If you were Carolina would you like Jared , a #12 pick, next years 1st and probably one other pick? You can build that way or just draft a QB and build the slow way. If they really like Clausen then the decision is easy. If they don’t then they probably won’t deal.
Plus remeber that evry GM wants Luck. This will be a bidding war. Perhaps unlike anything we have ever seen before.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Jan 4, 2011 10:57 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Don't forget the last few drafts
the 1st picks were actually signed before the draft started, so that could end our hopes of moving up to number 1.
☠★☪My dream, is to see the Minnesota Vi♛s win a superbowl. USA- the land were dreams come true. ☀ ツ This is our ۩۩house۩
by UnBannedVikingholic on Jan 4, 2011 2:49 PM CST up reply actions
That is only because there was no solid offer to trade up...
Just because they were signed before the draft does not lessen our chances of trading up to #1.
We would be in contact with Carolina well before the draft, informing them of our interest in the first pick.
I wonder if anyones already starting that convo up...
Let’s say San Fran?
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Perhaps...
What I have heard is that Carolina has no plans to trade out of their spot, but personally I do not see the need to reach unless it is for a sure thing.
They might however want your #1 pick next year and a player like Jared Allen.
Jeez, you’re killing me, LLV! LOL! I read that in your comment after I posted the exact same thing above it!
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
saw clausen play...
allot living in NC, he is terrible. we dodged a bullet last year by passing on him. I think right now the best pick would be a CB at 12, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see us trade down for more picks. It’s more realistic. I am not sold on any of the other QB’s besides Luck in the first round. I think others like Dalton will be available in latter rounds.
I would really be dispapointed with a CB in the first round.
Peterson is a safety and it would be nice if we could pick him up. If not a line backer would also be solid. I don’t mention line men because I think we should look in FA for one or two. This is all pertinant only if we can’t get one of the QB’s that we want.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Vikings
should move Webb to WR, sign a veteran/journeyman QB, draft a QB in the first round and sit him for a year.
Go for O-Line in the second and third
Pass protection is important, but I think getting a franchise QB is more of a pressing issue
For an example, you don’t even have to leave our division, Rodgers and Cutler have both had a pretty good year behind not so great O-Lines
"Baseball is the only major sport that appears backward in a mirror" ~George Carlin
by thewild_viking_twins on Jan 4, 2011 12:27 PM CST reply actions
Cutler and Rogers are veterans
It’s a little different when you throw a rookie to the wolves.
"Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthend, ambition inspired, and success achieved."
-Helen Keller
The Vikings should
Draft a QB .
Let Webb develop as a QB
Bring in a veteran.
Or
Bring in a high priced Free agent ( Vick or Kolb, ect)
Draft a developemental QB
Bring in an aged veteran for back-up
and make Webb a WR.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Jan 4, 2011 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
I like the first option
But I wouldn’t draft a QB before round 2, unless Luck falls in our lap at 12.
"Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthend, ambition inspired, and success achieved."
-Helen Keller
If we draft a QB
then move Webb, I don’t want that athleticism wasted as a backup QB
Either he’s going to be the guy at QB or move him to WR, I’d hate to see a guy with 4.4 speed holding a clipboard
"Baseball is the only major sport that appears backward in a mirror" ~George Carlin
by thewild_viking_twins on Jan 4, 2011 1:14 PM CST up reply actions
I have to agree with you in some context...
Even with his flashy, but streaky play, Webb is a physical beast (see video of him jumping over 6ft of pads) and we should develop him as a WR (ala Hines Ward).
I think the first pick can be had for a package that includes this years 1st (pick 12), and next years first (pick 32 hopefully), and maybe McKinnie (still considered a stout OL by the rest of the league (subpoint: look at whats available at that position, draft is poor this year for OL’s and FA will be weak)…and….Berrian (yes, I said it), Carolina is seriously lacking at WR, and BB sucks, but is also considered a speed demon (when he’s not hurt, sulking, being a turd, or playing TV with his friends). Only negative is…we will have to send some money to cover some of BB’s contract.
That eliminates some issues for us, which gives us Luck. After that, fill holes at DB/SS/FS through the draft and FA, sign our important FA’s (Rice, Greenway, extension for AP) and pick up some solid OL’s. Voila! we are a serious contender. Oh, and get a veteran like McNabb (most likely cut and available), Palmer (maybe cut, maybe not), and Orton (is Tebow toast, can be had for a reasonable #).
My favorite plan includes the above, and one other FA signing of either Jackson (Vincent) or …um…Larry Fitzgerald (who will most likely not be available), leaving the 2011 Vikings to look like this:
Offense
QB: Luck, Orton, some schmoe (Bomar?)
RB: AP, Gerhart, Booker
FB: Anyone other than Tahi and the Sauce
WR: Jackson/Fitzgerald, Rice, Harvin, Webb, does it even matter who else?
TE: Shank and maybe Bo Scaife from FA…
OL: Draftee, Hutch, Sully, Kyle DeVan (Indy), Loadholt
Defense
DL: Allen, K. Williams, P. Williams/B. Mebane (Seattle)/J. Henderson (Oak), Robison-Griffen
LB: Greenway, EJ Henderson, Kirk Morrison (Jac)
DB: Winfield, Griffen, Cook, Richard Marshall (Car), Draftee
SS: Draftee or FA (no names needed, anyone will be better
FS: Sanford (don’t hate, this kid can play), Draftee or Abdullahwhatsmyname
Special teams: same as last year…
All the people I named above will be FA’s for next season, and I believe offer cheap/better alternatives to what we have now…
SKOL VIKES!!!
Not sure how you're going to pay for that
As well I don’t think Carolina is going to be impressed with a guy that caught what 29 passes this year? Didn’t even break 300 yards receiving I don’t think. No they have enough crappy receivers. Don’t think they will wet themselves over McKinney although they do need a LT. Better bet is to toss em JA sucks because he’s a beast and he makes the D fun to watch, but… Sometimes you got to put in all your chips.
Of course Luck could turn out to be the next Herschel Walker then we’d have the two worst trades in the history of the galaxy…
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Two firsts and the players are tokens...
LT FA’s are uber weak….this might be the best time to move McKinnie (4.9 mil in 2011), and BB (6.9 mil in 2011, move with 2 million payoff to carolina =net 4.9 mil gone, or cut). These two, plus Favre (16 mil), Ray Ray (almost 2.6 mil, and alot more for 2011), Madmen Williams (5.4 mil, certainly cut), Leber (4 mil, lost in FA), Pat Williams (4.25 mil or more) will cut at least 42.5 million from the payroll.
Even with some upswing for Mebane (1.1 mil in 2010, probably closer to 3.5 mil in 2011) Jackson (somewhere in the nieghborhood of 7-9), Greenway (4 mil is likely), Sid the kid (6.5 maybe) (total=23 mil), the Vikes should be in a good place to sign Kirk Morrison, Marshall, and give AD the contract he deserves (maybe 12 mil total on the high end) (new total=35 mil).
Orton will be cut, and if he is somehow (he did get beat out by Tebow) too expensive, there will be a semi-cheap veteran talent available (3-4 mil). That leaves us with a bit of a tight spot to sign Luck (lower rookie salaries should come from the new CBA… so, I would expect 5 mil for the first year) (Total=42 mil).
Of course this is all speculation at best with the impending CBA yet to be worked out, and the salary cap structure determined….but it could be done.
In summary, two firsts and some veteran talent should swing the first pick in this years draft. Giving JA would be really, really dumb…for real. :)
SKOL VIKES!!!
Nice work
But I think we’re currently over the cap aren’t we? Also if they lower the cap as they are talking about I’m thinking we’re going to be put in a bit of a bind.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Dreaming...
But maybe JA will restructure to help the team out…like Peyton Manning did a few years ago for the Colts.
No No No
Let not develope Webb. Let him be the stud WR like he should be. We could use this year.
No on vick we don’t want a running QB. Give me a pocket passer. When you do all that running you can not be fresh to pass the ball. Running QB has terrible footwork.
Yes Yes Yes :)
Let not develope Webb. Let him be the stud WR like he should be. We could use this year.
Wishful thinking. Late 6th round drafted WRs are seldom “stud WRs”. He turned out to have a hidden QB talent which has panned out. We need 3 QBs next year and we’re losing 2 already. It makes no sense to give up on Webb.
No on vick we don’t want a running QB. Give me a pocket passer. When you do all that running you can not be fresh to pass the ball.
Until we have a solid O-line, a pocket-passer is just going to get creamed. Webb pushes lone D-linemen out of his way so he can make his throws. Not many QBs do that.
Running QB has terrible footwork.
I think he’ll be just fine :)
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Don't blow up the QB position
should move Webb to WR
I keep seeing people say that, but we have nothing to suggest that the guy who was drafted in the 7th as a WR would be a great WR in the NFL, while we have every indication that at the very least, he’s an excellent backup QB and he’s cheap as hell.
We still have 2 QB slots to fill, we lose Webb as a QB, then we have 3 QB slots to fill. You think we’re going to find 3 decent quality QBs (at their comparative ‘strings’) hanging out, waiting for the Vikings to snap them up? I don’t.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
your right we don't
however he has some really amazying physical talents. I would like to see him go to Fitz and Carters camp this year and see what he can learn. If they think he can QB then let him, but if he’s going to be a back up QB for the next three years then tossed I think we owe it to him and us to see if he can be a solid receiver.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
And if you guys want to check out some of the FA's....
at different postions, with mini-summaries for the best players…check out this site I found:
http://www.footballsfuture.com/freeagents.html
Seems like pretty straightforward analysis, and it aids in the FA speculation…
Skol Vikes!!!!
Interesting
it’s nice to see Greenway at the top of their list of LB’s.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Favre is 3rd!
"Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthend, ambition inspired, and success achieved."
-Helen Keller
The RB class is deep
Unfortunately that doesn’t benefit us at all.
"Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthend, ambition inspired, and success achieved."
-Helen Keller
Checked that link out.
Didn’t see much at LT but there are a lot of good guards and interior lineman. Logan Mankins, Carl Nicks, Davin Joseph, Chris Chester, and Ryan Kalil look pretty good to me. Chester’s probably the only guy in my list that’s not going to cost a ton of cash so it’d be nice to get him and Kalil to replace Sullivan and Hererra. I’d love to see us pick up one or two of these guys as they could instantly make our O-line better and free up our draft.
I also noticed that there’s a few really good FBs available this year. Le’Ron McClain, Vontae Leach, and Mike Tolbert would all be interesting pickups.
by CanadianViking on Jan 4, 2011 4:41 PM CST up reply actions
e-spin claims carolina says it will pick andrew luck if he declares for the draft...
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/news/story?id=5988254
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Watched a bit of Ryan Mallet tonight.....
he did OK, receivers dropped alot of passes. He threw a pick at the end, but, the lineman coming back in coverage made a great play. He is tall, but, then, Drew Brees isn’t. Not sure it matters much.
That last throw was on Mallet.
A LB rushed up the middle. Mallet ( being slow footed) tried to throw a pass off of his back foot instead of throwing the ball away on 2nd down. It was a Freshman mistake. Only he is a senior. I watched the Alabama game earlier this year and he did a similar type of bad play. I am suspect as to his decision making when under pressure. He had a chance on 2nd down to protect his teams ability to win the Orange bowl. Instead he made a terrible throw.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
Correction. Mallet is a Junior.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Jan 5, 2011 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
Here is what I would do at #12 if Mallett was not there
I would draft Gabe Carimi OT 6-7 327 Outland Trophy Winner, All American, & Big 10 Offensive Lineman of the Year at pick #12 without hesitation.
Some say he needs help with his foot work, etc. So be it. He is already an elite run blocker and can get better with his foot work if it is even that bad. Either way you have your left tackle for years to come provided he stays healthy of course.
Then, if McKinnie is really that good as some believe, then they may be able to get a 2nd or 3rd for him. Personally, I believe they will be lucky to get a 4th but most likely it will be a 5th because of age & money.
Then they could look at a QB like this in round 2 or later (not much though) …
Pat Devlin 6-3 222
12/12/2010 – 2010 ALL-CAA FOOTBALL FIRST TEAM (COACHES): QB Pat Devlin, Delaware, Senior, has been selected All-CAA Football First Team for the 2010 college football season as voted on by the 10 CAA Football head coaches. Devlin (Downingtown East HS/Downingtown, Pa.), a second-year transfer from Penn State who is a Top 10 finalist for the Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award as the top quarterback in the nation as well as candidate for the Walter Payton National Player of the Year Award, becomes the 10th player in UD history to earn a conference Player of the Year Award and first since current Baltimore Ravens quarterback Joe Flacco was selected in 2007. Devlin has enjoyed an outstanding season, throwing for 2,158 yards and 14 touchdowns with just two interceptions and passing for over 200 yards six times. He ranks third nationally in completion percentage (.673) and No. 6 in passing rating (151.31). He earned ESPN/CoSIDA District 2 All-Academic honors earlier this month and is a candidate for Academic All-American honors. – Delaware football
Here is a scouting report on him from the huddlereport.com …
Pat Devlin QB Delaware TALENT BOARD Round 1
STRENGTHS
Pat has excellent size, arm strength, accuracy and overall athletic ability to be an efficient NFL QB. He shows great leadership skills as well as the inner strength that every QB needs to be successful in the NFL. Pat has the full respect of every teammate and coach on his team and you can see that on the film when he plays. He has a quick release, makes rapid decisions and also is fast when going through his progressions and reading defenses. Pat is a smart QB and understands situational football. I noticed that his arm speed does not change when he is under pressure and he’s even accurate when the pocket breaks down. He plays from the pocket, even in the pistol offense. Pat understands both sides of the ball and how to protect and keep his defense out of difficult situations. On film I see that he has excellent mechanics and footwork. He is an efficient QB, but he plays with a little bit of anger. When things start to go bad, Pat will take the situation into his own hands emotionally and correct his team’s course. He is the pilot of the plane and like a plane that is on automatic, as soon as it struggles and goes off course, or needs to change course, Pat is there to handle the controls. That’s why I call him Pat (The Pilot) Devlin.
CONCERNS
I don’t have these concerns, but I know that others will use them to downgrade this kid’s talent. He comes from Division II. He plays in a pistol offense. He went to Penn St and could not beat out a QB who is not NFL caliber. All of this is true and has nothing to do with evaluating Pat for the next level.
BOTTOM LINE
What sold me on Pat’s mental strength to lead and play under adverse conditions was his play in the first game of the season. He started out trying to play with a broken non-throwing hand. Taking the snap was painful and bothersome and causing Pat a lot of problems at first. You could see he was tentative and struggling; he was thinking about it on every snap. Then, something happened at the start of the 2nd quarter. Pat’s whole attitude and body language changed. It was like he said, “The hell with it. I’m just going to play like I know how to play, throw the ball and whatever happens, I’ll deal with later.” He wasn’t worried about how good he looked or his stats. It looked to me like he just made the decision mentally that his play was not going to be the reason they would lose the game. He knew that his team was not going to win that game unless he started to play like he knows how to play. He went on after the first quarter to pass his team to a win in a running offense. Pat can play at any level, can play in any style of offense and, in my opinion, should have been the Penn St starting QB two years ago. Pat has the intelligence to know that sometimes you can’t fight the decisions that some coaches make, so it’s best to move on and regroup. Pat has all the ingredients it takes to become a starting NFL caliber QB because he has the arm strength, athletic talent, leadership skills, accuracy, size and intelligence. Something tells me that in the Senior Bowl and Combine you will here a lot of talk about Pat. If you look at playoff teams with aging QB’s that are selecting players in the latter part of the first round who will need a QB in a year or two, I would suspect that Pat would be on their radar and could sneak into the first round. If that doesn’t happen who knows where Pat will be selected in this draft. All I can say is this: Penn St passed on him and look what they did this year! The BS Detector Drew Boylhart Jan/11
Here is another from cbssports.com …
Analysis
Accuracy: Owns NFL-caliber accuracy but he does play in a quarterback-friendly spread offense and throws a lot of slants and other intermediate, underneath routes. Generally leads his man to the ball on crossing routes, seam throws and deep balls. Did have games in which he and his receivers weren’t on the same page. Puts the ball on the receiver but away from defenders. Accurate looking one way then dumping to the flat. Excellent touch, accuracy and trajectory on fades thrown into the end zone. Puts deep balls to the sideline and in a position where most receivers can make a play. His height and over-the-top delivery will result in overthrown balls, especially on deep outs.
Arm Strength: Does not have a rocket arm but has more than enough pace to make every throw at the next level. Snaps off throws down the seam to beat cover-two and in tight places in the end zone. Throws 40-yard balls down the sideline accurately and without great effort. Deep balls have nice trajectory and do not float. Usually not forced to put passes in tight windows over the middle at the FCS level, but has the arm and confidence to complete that type of throw. Has pace on shorter passes but does not overthrow them. Could improve the consistency in his spiral; the ball comes out wobbly too often, reducing velocity and accuracy.
Setup/Release: Over-the-top delivery with a quick release, can drive balls downfield when stepping into throws and snap off passes when an underneath route is wide open. Has quiet feet — generally set when throwing, although the offense requires mostly quick throws — and can unload quickly and accurately when flat-footed or off-balance to hit hot routes. Usually in the shotgun for pass plays, but has some experience under center. Good ball fake from I-formation and can quickly spin and reset to find his receiver.
Reading Defenses: Experienced passer who takes his time to survey the scene before and after the snap. Works out of the shotgun and in the no-huddle quite often; coaches call plays and make adjustments from the sideline. Moves running back to the opposite side of the formation for protection. Used on read-option plays, effective reading the end to get eight or more yards when they cheat inside on running backs. Eyes too often stick on one receiver or one side of the field, but is capable of coming off to find third option or safety valve. Will need time to adjust and be able to anticipate the speed of NFL middle linebackers to get back into coverage (and look them off) before attempting throws down the middle.
On the Move: Just threatens defenses enough with his feet to pick up first downs if a running lane is available to him. Gets the ball off quickly and is generally accurate when running to his right on designed rollouts; some throws are a bit high or wide, but in places where only his man can make the catch. Keeps his eyes downfield when escaping the pocket to the outside. Lowers his head when forced up the middle, agile enough to get through some traffic in front of him but is not overly elusive. Better on called draw runs, can turn a defender sideways or sidestep them to slide by a tackle. Has a nose for the endzone on draws. Knows when to get out of bounds to live to fight another play. Good strength and size to push the pile on quarterback sneaks. Calm and poised in the pocket but needs to feel backside pressure more quickly to move within the pocket, unload the ball or tuck it away.
Intangibles: Stepped in as a leader immediately after arriving at Delaware. Intelligent, tough and mature player who leads by words and example. Academic All-American at Penn State, not eligible for that award as first-year transfer in 2009.
Carimi sounds good I like him too
As for second round QB. If we aren’t going to pick up a 1st round QB, then we should go bpa.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
I kind of like Quntin Carter FS in the second round
but that means they would be bypassing QB totally.
I know this is probably not popular but I wonder if they could get a first round pick for Jared Allen (like from Jacksonville).
If they could do that then they may have a shot at a QB if one drops that far.
If they wanted to do that then they probably would have to do the trade before free agency.
We would then have to resign Edwards & Robison to go with Griffen as the DEs.
But they would get a QB.
We don't just need any QB that is available in the first.
I often think people forget how really really hard it is to have the OPPORTUNITY to select a great QB. So far this draft looks like it might have 3-5 QBs to be evaluated as having great potential. We have to evaluate them And if one meets our requirements we HAVE TO Do WHATEVER IS REQUIRED to get him. At #12 we have this opportunity. We might not see it again. Now, if that can’t happen or we hire a young experienced QBOF then we can start talking about all the other possibilities. But any talk of doing something different is really avoiding the biggest issue the Vikings have.
Every mediocre team has opportunities to select left tackles and guards, and D-Linemen each year in the draft. Few have Great QBs fall in their laps. I know I sound like a broken record but it is the way the draft works. Until the QB position is solidified ( somehow) no other position should be considered for our first two draft choices, because both might be needed for our QBOF.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Jan 6, 2011 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
Nicely said
So if we do find the QB we want then we should keep Allen on the table but use him to get into position where we can grab what we need.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
…..even if he’s not very good.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
I have never said that.
I advocate doing whatever it takes to get the guy we evaluate as a franchise QB. Not just to take a guy in the first round. If we evaluate one and have to move up to 39 to get him, so be it. But we can’t just waste a pick. Picking a guy that is still around in the second round is mathematical suicide.
Start evaluating QBs and quit trying to play word games. It will lead to a more productive off-season.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
Sorry, that was suppose to read
move up to #9 to get him.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
I advocate doing whatever it takes to get the guy we evaluate as a franchise QB.
and if there is no “franchise guy” available to us this year? then what?
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
As I have said
Hire a young er experienced free agent.
I’m not opposed to Vick if the coaches like him.
I’m not opposed to Young if the coaches like him.
I’m not opposed to any QB that is young and fresh enough to win multiple SBs.
But if a rookie Qb is available in the draft then that is the way to go.
This is why I was opposed to Farve. Now, he did win me over for a year, but we simply forestalled the issue of having no QB. I realize that Chilly thought T-Jack would step in and that made sense. Until T-Jack really stepped in and stepped in it.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
But if a rookie Qb is available in the draft then that is the way to go.
that sounds much more rational than your new signature line.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
wow in two threads you went after this.
Gruss Fraba.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
gruss fraba? ..... i was thinking "whack-a-mole"
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Start evaluating QBs and quit trying to play word games.
i have been evaluating them, how about you?
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Really
I don’t recall any post analyzing the available QBs with their stats and your comments about each one. The particular reasons you feel one is better suited to Frasiers system than another.
Spouting your opinions is not evaluation.
Its to early to evaluate how they will work in Frasiers system because we don’t know Frasiers system yet.
Why are you so argumentative today?
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
this, amongst several others....
by jethrophet on Dec 26, 2010 5:59 PM PST
i’ve been watching videos on these guys. i can see the question marks.
mallet -
seems to get amazing time and space to throw the ball. must be good blocking by the o-line, eh? so he doesn’t seem to be facing real nfl type pressure. plus, he seems a little slow, i wonder how he will translate to nfl speed. but i can also see his upside.
newton -
is on a great team and is the big kid out on the schoolyard. he doesn’t have to face the speed and size of the nfl, and it seems like he is running a simplified system that let’s him adlib and use the threat of the run. i just think that those aspects of his game are making him successful in college, but they will be greatly curtailed in the nfl. so he seems like a question mark. but what a tremendous athlete for that size.
locker -
seems to have some trouble with the complexity of the COLLEGE systems. he seems to get rattled too. i wonder if he has just maxed out his ability at the college level. he looks the part, but when you add the size, speed and complexity of the nfl, i think he looks a littl risky, cuz his upside seems the least of these three.
luck -
seems like the guy to get, but it seems doubtful that we could get into a position to get him. the highlights i’ve watched of him show a lot of nfl type pressure, and he makes plays and quick decisions in the face of said pressure. he seems like he has a real handle on the needs of the position and isn’t getting by on his size, athleticism or cannon arm like the mallet or newton. he seems like the smart one who can do a lot of the little things extremely well and piece it together at game speed. i want him.
you seem high on selecting a qb no matter what, but how do you think we could get in position to get one? you also said to trust the front office to get the right one (uh, remember t-jack?). well, i would love to see a REAL football mind come in and tell our front office who to pick. i hope we get a front office upgrade.
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
by lifelongvike on Dec 26, 2010 6:11 PM PST
I like your analysis I truly agree on each one. There are risks with every pick.
.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
and there are, but at the same time each pick has merit as well
You based your observations on the negative issues each QB has and didn’t go into the positives that might push them past the negative and make them a potent NFL QB. Mallet does get a long time in the pocket but he has an excellent arm good vision and seems to read defenses well. I’ve only seen two of his games but it looked like he set his feet well when he threw and was pretty dang accurate. So he’s slow and you think he’ll have an issue with an NFL rush. I’m pretty sure every rookie QB will have that issue. I’m also sure that Dan Marino was the absolutely slowest QB ever and he was still pretty good. Remember we can build a line that supports him much like the colts did for Manning.
Anyway I’m not going into every one of the prospects first I dont’ have time, and second well I don’t know enough about everyone of them. I will say our coaching staff knows much more than I do and if they see one they think they can use then we should do pretty darn near whatever we can to pick him up.
Hell if Luck were on board I would give AP to Carolina.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
it's not the end all analysis...at least i've been looking at specific players and commenting.
i commented on those four because they were the four most talked about prospects. they were talked about simply because they weach have so much upside that they are high on everyone’s board. so, i looked for things worth scrutinizing for the sake of being succinct.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
All true
but an evaluation is of both the good and bad. It also has to talk about why or why not they fit in our system.
I’m not knocking your opinions. Heck I will admit you might be right. But I won’t do that until a full discussion of the QBs and our system is in place. If we find ( or disagree) that a prospect is aceptable we can have that discussion at that time.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
llv said: “I don’t recall any post analyzing the available QBs…”
plus, there is no system established yet. but i like talking about reality, not dogmatic notions obout how “the only way a team can achieve greatness is to draft the messiah at any and all costs before even thinking about anything else…”. that is what you keep posting, and yet don’t offer any way to achieve that with our current circumstances.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Obviously you have missed all my comments. Please don’t put statements out that inaccurately reflect my position. I have posted facts concerning the drafting of a QB. It is factually accurate that drafting a franchise QB is the most sure way of winning multiple SB. So, of course I want to draft a Franchise QB. So does everyone else.
I have also said I could understand the Vikings getting a Franchise QB that is young enough to win multiple SBs like Vick or Kolb.
I have also said that if the Vikes have evaluated Webb as a QBOF I can understand that and I know they have to act accordingly.
But these are the three choices I have espoused. Never changing, Never varying.
It is to early to evaluate the QBs for the draft since we don’t know who is declaring yet and what offensive system the Vikes will be using. If all of this is news to you then I would be surprised. I have said it many times and don’t plan on changing my opinions.
As I form opinions on each QB I will jump right in there with my analysis.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
you two
need to get a room and “bang” this one out. JK. I think you both agree, but one has realized that we don’t know where these coaching changes will take us. Will we still be in a west coast systm? is josh mac be the new OC? Too many questions when attempting to apply a QB to our “system” or momentary lackthereof. We’ll know more before draft time, but right now there’s a lot up in the air. to have an honest discussion about the QBs available, I think we need to look at them in their collegiate systems and judge from there. i think looking at the competition is important too. I think we’re overlooking Cam Newton a little. He plays in the SEC so he sees “tough” defenses week in and week out. I don’t know if his talents translate to the NFL, but I know he has all the physical gift(including arm strength) to make it. I think he seems more composed than even a Vince Young(same style) was his last year and he’s turned out pretty good in the NFL with Luck out of the picture now(declared he’s returning for Sr year), then who knows how things will shake out.
llv said: "I don’t recall any post analyzing the available QBs…"
well, i gave you a perfect example of me actually posting analysis of available qb’s. and it’s something you actually commented to….seriously, llv.
I have also said I could understand the Vikings getting a Franchise QB that is young enough to win multiple SBs like Vick or Kolb.vick is not young, he is going to get pressured and forced into making mistakes and will get injured more often than he was this year because there is film on him now…..attack him, hit him and he will faulter. and, he was a bust because he got busted and sent to prison and left his team hanging. fortunately they had matt schaub who turned out to be a “franchise qb”…..who wasn’t drafted in the first round either…..which works against your “1st round only savior” theory.
kevin kolb has been a 4 year back up. that hardly qualifies as a franchise qb, imo. t-jack has better numbers than kevin kolb….who also was not a first round draft pick, yet you call him a potential franchise qb.
if you are going to beat the drum of your dogma….then i will continue to ask you to look to the present and ask you how the minnesota vikings, in 2011 can draft a franchise qb at the number 12 pick with the college prospects available, who that qb prospect is, how to actually get that specific guy and how to keep him in one piece while advocating that we should ignore the o-line problem until we draft a guy “who will lead us to multpile super bowls”.
oh wait, you do have a plan. it’s called “at any and all cost” first and foremost, before even thinking about any other position. you even changed your position on trading away jared allen. you are advocating trading jared allen AND 2 first round picks to get “him”, but don’t know who “him” is (him would be andrew luck….but he is staying in school). selling the farm without even knowing for what in return?
the only reason i mention luck in that way is because he is the superior choice, imo. he is versatile as well. he could run multiple offensive systems with his skill set. the other guys are more products of their system.
bold comments, preachy dogma, limited and rhetorically skewed stats, no plan
of action, no concept of how to implement said dogma in current situation…
(none of which is predicated on what o-system we end up with, dm_purp).
it’s a very narrow way of looking at the situation we have. chilly was like that.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
First I would say that a change in the O Line coaching staff is a good start
Look at what Tice did with Chicagos line. It was the worst in the NFL at the start of the season and now doesn’t completely suck. Actually, it has flashes of good in it. They have no one playing in their original position, and yet they are doing better. Coaching can help a lot and I think Loadholt needs a good coach to work him through some of the fundementals of the NFL game. A new OC can also help the O Line by calling plays that stop or hinder people from destroying the QB. three step passes, shot guns, draws and screens. I don’t know why we didn’t use them more often this year watching AP going out on a screen would be a joy. and Rice and Harvin would do great off of a three step pass.
Right there are a bunch of ways to help mitigate our line issues. None of them involving new personel. I’m not saying new people aern’t important but it may not be as much of an issue as not having a QB on the team AT ALL.
I don’t ‘thikn anyone on this site is expounding us to pick up a QB just to pick up a QB I know I’m not. But I do think that since we are in this position if we see a QB that is good we make a move for him. There are several to choose from each has negatives, but honestly no one is perfect not even luck as we’ll see next year.
Anyway these last couple of remarks have been fairly inflamatory man not sure why, but lets all remember we’re on the same side here. My side.. :D
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
i'm not intending to be inflamatory...
but i have been looking at the bigger picture. and it’s a bit of a broken record that i keep hearing. i don’t try to impose my views on others or evade the questions at hand either.
when i read llv saying that he wants to….“make people admit” that drafting a first round qb is the only way to find a savior to lead us to multiple super bowls, blah, blah, blah. i wanna barf. it’s completely ridiculous, imo.
p.s. cutler was sacked 52 times this year.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Oh I'm not saying that their line is any good
it’s just much less worserest than it was last year and they really didn’t bring anyone new in. We have an excellent line in comparison that seems to be under preforming. I think that is why I believe an offensive line coach with a clue can come in and help turn it around without to much outside help. Now don’t get me wrong I still want Pouncy a player who can hit guard or center. I would use him as a center as I think Sully is a bust. It would be nice to have him as a guard as I think Hutch is on his last legs for sure
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
i agree with you about the o-line solutions...
a multi-pronged approach seems necessary.
(“multi-pronged”, like a fork in the ass).
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Oh I thought you were watching some of the whacked out anime...
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
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