Quarterback Situation
by k.anderson on Jan 6, 2011 10:55 AM CST
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PrintQB: This is one of the needs we need to fix in the offseason. Brett is going to finally retire (Hopefully, you never know with him.), and he leaves a giant gaping hole at QB, kinda like what Kurt Warner did with the Cardinals. Tavaris Jackson thinks he won’t be here, saying, "The grass is always greener on the other side." Joe Webb has potential, but he is still young, and needs some more time to learn how to be the everyday starting quarterback.
Free agent quarterbacks are usually cheaper to find than drafting a first round QB in the draft. QB’s like Shaun Hill, Troy and Alex Smith are ones we should consider. From this list I think we should go after Shaun Hill. He has experience, he’s a former Viking, and I would love to see him back in purple.
Qb’s that are being considered to be traded are Kyle Orton, Donovan McNabb, and Kevin Kolb. If free agency doesn’t work we should go for either Kyle Orton or Kolb. The Broncos want a second round pick for Orton, so he comes at a price, same with Kolb, but I think both have potential.
There also is thought we should draft a QB if one comes our way. I think we should save that pick for a stud lineman to replace McKinnie, the second pick for a decent safety, and fourth rounder for a quarterback (thanks Chilly for throwing away the Third Round pick!)
Post your thoughts.
This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.
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I know there's many who won't like this idea
But it looks like Vince Young might be out there too. As least he has some experience and could compete with Webb and whoever else they get.
I don't think this is a horrible idea.
When I read that V.Y. will be outa Tennessee, I considered the fitment in my head for a bit. The problem is, he will be looking for a team to be a franchise QB. I like the idea of drafting a Franchise QB, and you can’t do both in the same season…
I like the idea of reaching for a upside veteran free agent (I don’t think we need a superstar to win the Superbowl) and drafting for a Franchise QB is the best idea. Joe Webb will be the only QB on our roster soon.
V.Y. is too young to start signing 1-2 year contracts… he will want bigger.
Why wouldn't we like the idea.
Rookie of the year
Winning record as a starting QB
Problems mentally adjusting to the game
Head Coach that didn’t want to draft him
Excellent skill set.
The question for the Vikings is can we resolve the issues VY has? Can they be satisfied with a change of scenery? Coaching? Not at all?
If you bring in VY it would be for a long term incentive laden contract. No one considers him to be of Michael Vick caliber right now.
If the Coaches decide VY is the guy I would have no problem supporting this move and then bringing in one veteran for competition and a late round pick rookie ( or keep Joe Webb).
At least the Vikings would be making a move for a younger proven guy.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Jan 6, 2011 12:08 PM CST up reply actions
No to vy
Get Palmer for cheap and draft Locker we will be set at QB for many years. Move Webb to WR where he can be a monster. Imaging his leaping ability and speed. My coach always tell me you can teach speed and height. Oh yeah he got athletic ability too. WR will be easier for him to learn. The main thing is he can help us now.
by vikefansd on Jan 6, 2011 2:53 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
spoken by the coach who's not likely to see next season...
by Shawn Gillogly on Jan 6, 2011 3:28 PM CST up reply actions
yeah, he would have been a good one to bring in.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
I like the idea!
Lets get Vince go to the Spread Option with Harvin, Peterson and Gerhart. We’ve got young talent. Let’s revolutionize the NFL!!!
Personally
I think we ought to sign a vet. I like what I’ve seen out of Joe Webb thus far and think we need somebody to come in on a two year deal to mentor him. Maybe we start the vet in 2011 while Webb watches, then in 2012, Webb can take over full-time.
Of course, if there’s a good QB to be had in the draft, that wouldn’t be a bad idea either if we choose not to go with Webb as potential QBOTF.
Now that Brad Childress is gone, the BCS needs to follow.
Who?
Who are these Vet’s you think the Vikings should try and get and why?
I imagine
he believes that McNabb, Orton, Hasselbeck, Volek ( my favorite) could hold the fort down while Webb develops. It certainly is one way to go. But to do that you have to evaluate Webb, right now, as your QBOF. You have to see what Brad Childress saw and believe this guy is the future.
Maybe I’m blind but I didn’t see a sure thing in Webb. I still like him as a developemental project. But this is the year to solidify the future, not gamble on it. I would rather get a stud QB and see if Webb is the best kept WR secret in the NFL. But I’m not coach Frasier. (Thank God)
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Jan 6, 2011 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
If the idea is to pick up an over the hill QB (McNabb) or an average QB (Orton) or a proven failure (Hasselbeck/Volek) and in turn go maybe .500 if thier lucky. Then why not just start Webb and let him play I don’t understand this development idea??? What is he going to leaarn form any of those guy’s. How to be a consistant loser!
"proven failure"?
There are plenty of things you could say against Matt Hasselback at this point in his career:
1. He’s old
2. He’s washed up
3. He’s injury prone
But a failure? He’s been a franchise QB for a long time and led a team to the Super Bowl. That’s not really a failure in my book. Maybe not HOF, but defiantly not failure.
As for Volek….well I don’t see how he’s proven anything for good or ill. He’s spent most of his career sitting behind Brees or Rivers. That doesn’t prove anything but he’s sitting behind two of the better QB’s of our day. He’s been a solid backup who might be able to show something for a team that he starts on. Again, nothing ground breaking, but not a failure.
Really when you talk about failing as a QB you want to see a guy who had the mantel of a franchise on him and he just couldn’t carry it. Great current day examples would be Brady Quinn, Derek Anderson, Matt Leinart, and VY. Volek and Hasselback don’t really fit in with those guys.
by PackApologist on Jan 6, 2011 8:51 PM CST up reply actions
Don't blame you there
He’s definitely not a long term solution. But he could be interesting if Frazier goes WCO. He would be a guy that is past his prime enough that I would imagine him being okay training up a young guy. This way the Vikes could have their cake and eat it too….they could go out and get a QBOTF and still have a guy who could keep them in playoff contention while AP’s legs are fresh.
by PackApologist on Jan 6, 2011 9:01 PM CST up reply actions
Got me there
That’s part of the reason why I firmly believe Loadholt needs to stay as the RT. Also you should get the slowest QB possible….jk.
by PackApologist on Jan 6, 2011 9:15 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe, maybe not
Webb is raw and not good at reading defenses yet. He can make some plays happen, but I also think our D would give him fits. They would be able to hide the blitzes as well as bring pressure from a variety of places. The secondary is also more stacked than any of the defenses he played thus far in his young career.
by PackApologist on Jan 6, 2011 10:31 PM CST up reply actions
As to the other paert of your question
the only true proven QBs that are still available are
Manning ( forget it)
Vick- still possible
Kolb- not likely but possible
Vince Young
All, except Kolb are free agents or will be free agents. Right now we should concentrate on what is possible. Not concern ourselves with what is perceived as unlikely. Often the most unlikely things do occur.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Jan 6, 2011 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
There you go!
I like those guy’s Kolb/Young they have some talent and possibly a future and have a little experience.
And if we could get lucky with one of those guys
Give Berrian a hasty hasta la vista, and possibly develop Webb into a receiver as per the original plan (that type of athleticism is just too good to waste!)
I think disappointment will cling to both of those guys
Kolb might surprise me yet, but VY seems to be a nightmare waiting to happen for the next franchise to give him the keys to the car. Remember it took Vick time in prison and one on one counseling from Tony Dungy in order to really learn what it takes to be an NFL QB. VY strikes me as the same guy Vick was in ATL and I don’t think he’ll get the same kind of wake up call either.
by PackApologist on Jan 6, 2011 8:53 PM CST up reply actions
That is a ridiculous statement to make.
VY strikes me as the same guy Vick was in ATL
By that statement you are saying that VY is a person who holds himself up higher than the law itself. A person who would lie to the face of the owner that drafted him. A person who takes no responsibility for his actions.
I see no similarities in these situations. I do see a QB in VY that has had an issue accepting his NFL role and working with the coach to achieve greatness. But please don’t equate the two situations.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
How they are similar
I should refine my statement. I don’t mean to imply that VY is running some sort of illegal activity or is deceitful towards the commissioner, his owner, or coach.
What I do mean to say is that he is not a hard worker who believes that his physical abilities will cover for a lack of preparation. I do mean to say that is not willing to sit in the pocket and make throws, but will look for one read or two and then throw. I do mean to say that he has not displayed the maturity needed to be a starting QB in this league. All have been displayed quite clearly in TN and all were displayed by Vick in ATL.
Vick has stated the only thing that changed that attitude of his was his work with Dungy and his prison reflections. Now that all may be PR nonsense, in which case the credit show go to some combination of Reid and McNabb for showing Vick how to be an NFL QB. My question to any franchise that goes after VY is this….do you think that being cut/traded from the Titans is that wake up call? If not, do you have a coach or QB or system in place to show VY how hard he has to work? Especially considering that he dude has also showed that he’s a bit fragile when it comes to his confidence? (Which is something Vick never showed in ATL).
by PackApologist on Jan 7, 2011 10:20 AM CST up reply actions
I agree with all of this
And in fact he has only one thing over Webb (and TJ) in that he has shown an ability to win games. But its not consistent enough, and that’s where he needs to do the preparation and actual work. And he does not seem to want to do that.
If you plan on bringing in a VY, you might as well just start Webb. Webb has more upside to me, and has already shown that he is willing to WORK, and work HARD, at being a better QB. And no baggage.
--
Bleeding Purple even after the math says its over
I can accept that explanation.
And I agree with the questions you raised that the Vikings should have. But if the answers by ZFrasier is Yesand Yes then VY could be the answer for the Vikes.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
Athleticism Trumps Physical Conditioning
What I do mean to say is that he is not a hard worker who believes that his physical abilities will cover for a lack of preparation.
Why shouldn’t he believe that?
Doesn’t McKinnie appear to believe the same thing?
Doesn’t the NFL itself believe this, in how it’s reduced training camp from 2 months long in the ’70s to 2 weeks long today and is planning on reducing the pre-season practice/prep games from 4 to 2 (used to be 6 of those back in the ’70s)?
I don’t think that’s a Vince Young Problem. I think that’s an NFL-approved and fueled attitude.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Different rules for different positions
I absolutely believe that. I also think that the amount of preparation differs per position.
The reason why the NFL is shorting the preseason is because the NFL offseason has changed from the 70’s. Back then players didn’t stay in shape in the same way and didn’t have minicamps or OTA’s. Now players stay in shape year round and the conditioning has improved. They are basically around the team facility in “optional” camps as far back as late May and early June doing non contract drills. As a result training camp doesn’t need to be as long and preseason games have become a bigger joke than the Pro-Bowl.
But as I said different positions need to have a different level of preparation. All need to be workaholics on some level. McKinnie is a great example of a player who should be much better than he is…and the reason why is because he doesn’t put in the work. An example of this is him getting kicked off the Pro-Bowl roster last year for not showing up to meetings and the like. Players who take the the profession seriously either show up or drop out early.
Quarterbacks though, they are freaks. They have to be freaks, but the really successful ones are just constantly there. There are countless stories about Payton Manning’s obsession with film study and knowing the offense. Stories of him texting guys they day they are drafted to say he wants to work with them to know how they run routes. Tom Brady was the hardest worker on the Patriots until this past offseason. He coveted the parking lot reserved for the player who spent most time in the building.
To contrast, VY has been known as a partier. Best story for this was the shirtless drinking pictures of him circling the internet a few years back. Also, being a Packer fan I’ve seen this in a few stories, when Finely wasn’t taking his profession serious he was partying with VY down in TX.
Leinart has always had rumors surrounding him that he didn’t work hard enough. He had the pictures of him in a hot tube with a bunch of coeds, I also remember him doing a piece for ESPN awhile back with him interviewing coaches and owners at an owners convention a while back. Most of the coaches asked him if he had worked out that day and he just dodged their questions.
QB’s need to be the first guy in the office in the mornings and the last guy out. They set the tone for the entire team. It’s why they get too much credit when the team wins and too much blame for when the team loses. They are leaders of the team.
by PackApologist on Jan 8, 2011 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
comment to your vote above.
Where should the Vikings look to address thier quarterback situation?
vote for – Free Agency | Trade | Draft | Stay with Joe Webb as QB…
i say all of the above. i think we should :
Free Agency – get a veteran short term solution to fit the new system
Trade – to get another first round pick or 2nd & 3rd round picks to help the team
Draft – a QB to fit the system based on what is available and how they evaluate
Joe Webb – he’s a keeper. he is totally worth keeping and developing, imo.
i think first frazier has to set the direction on what style of offense we are going to run.
then sign a free agent veteran to come in that fits that style…BEFORE the draft.
meanwhile, make trades to acquire top 100 picks so we can target talent to draft.
and do everything possible in the offseason to make joe webb the best player he
can possibly become. i say give him every chance to develop and earn the spot.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
by jethrophet on Jan 6, 2011 1:34 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
We're def goingtoneed a combination of everything
I like Joe Webb and think has tremendous potential. I would be very disappointed/surprised if he is not the starter next year.
But, we do need to have a contingency plan in action. It might be that he has a terrible off season and comes into camp looking like Tjack. If that’s the case, we may need a Orton/McNabb/Etc veteran presence to keep us a contender. Also, keep in mind that we also have Bomar who may be a dark horse in the QB race.
To completely ignore the QB situation in the draft is a terrible idea. However, I also think ignoring the O-line and secondary is a terrible idea. Tat being said, I believe we can draft immediate impact in those positions better than we can a QB. However, if a gem falls to us in the form of a potential franchise QB, we have to take it.
Basically, we just have to trust the FO as we really have no other option. I believe that the Vikes are very good at evaluating talent and will hopefully look at all avenues (Draft, FA, Trade) to make the QB position consistent.
Long story short, it’s going to take a variety of those things to make the QB situation, and other positions, viable for the future.
"it's going to take a variety of things" = yes | "trust the FO" = no
the fo needs to read the dn and take my advice. ;)
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Agreed
Not all of those options will pan out, so by going for all of them, the Vikings should be able to shed the least-capable result and fill out the QB roster nicely. That’s why I didn’t vote for any of the available options, I wanted an “all of the above”.
Webb is definitely a keeper. I like what I’ve seen of him and short of the Vikings grabbing a top-rated QB through one of the other methods, I want to see Webb given the opportunity to compete for the #1 slot next year.
All the talk of converting him to WR is spurious. He’s never played as a WR in the NFL and we don’t know if he’d do well there. Maybe he would, but maybe he wouldn’t. Either way, it would be a terrible waste of Webb’s abilities to put him in as WR. You can’t teach Webb’s level of poise and calm and leadership; those things only come with years of experience or innate ability.
Finally, it’s a LOT easier to get a decent WR than it is to get a decent back-up QB, let alone a QBotF-prospect. We got Camarillo for Benny Sapp, and if that doesn’t illustrate the point, I don’t know what does.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
e-spin newsflash....andrew luck to return to stanford next season.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
It is very likely...
that McNabb is gonna be given an outright release from the Redskins. If so, I believe we should get him and buy a couple years for either Jake Locker or Cam Newton to battle with Joe Webb and develop. This will still give us a legitimate chance at making the playoffs and ultimately taking home the Lombardi Trophy.
LAKERS!!!!!!!!!! Thr3e P3at...
Long Live the MINNESOTA VIKINGS. I live in the LA area dont bring em here…our team belongs in Minnesota, save your franchise Mr. Wilf, or give it over to someone who can.
Mixing McNabb and a high end pick is not a good idea
Something tells me McNabb is going to want to be the man. He’s already done the whole, train the guy behind you thing, both with a young guy (Kolb) and a special case (Vick). I don’t think he’s going to want to do that all over again, especially with his last shot at being a franchise QB. I would also imagine that his nerves will be a bit raw to such an idea after the year he’s had in Washington. If you win the McNabb sweepstakes then you are all in with Super5….and the new kid in town routine will have to wait at least a season, probably two.
by PackApologist on Jan 6, 2011 8:58 PM CST up reply actions
Amazing assumptions
You know how McNabb feels? You know how he feels about mentoring a younger QB ( part of the job of every NFL QB). You know how hiring McNabb will affect the future of a young Viking QB.
You really should preface your statements with “If” Mcnab feels this way, it could portend trouble. Or “if” Mcnabb is feeling snarky it could cause trouble.
The idea of the Vikings hiring a veteran QB while a draft choice learns is certainly not an idea that hasn’t been tried successfully in the past by many NFL teams. Dismissing the idea based on your “gut” feelings doesn’t really create much room for discussion.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
McNabb willingly mentored Vick
Actually campaigned for him to be brought in. I don’t think McNabb suddenly became an anti-team player.
by Shawn Gillogly on Jan 7, 2011 8:36 AM CST up reply actions
Of course he did. He was a good QB for 11 years..
But that doesn’t stop people from just making stuff up. I mean why let facts get in the way of discussion.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
If you are going to get all hot and bothered over facts....
McNabb is currently under contract for a long time with the Washington Redskins. If you are going to this ruffled by assumptions then take him off the table. It’s an assumption that he would be cut in the first place. Not too large a logical leap, but a leap none the less that some facts work against.
Who knows what team Shannahan will do? Who knows what the owner will let them do?
After that then all you have left to guess on is old statements about coming to the Vikings (when Childress was here and the same sort of offense was run but that doesn’t look to be the case anymore) and the general temperaments of QB’s who have been at the top of the league. These guys tend to not want to play second fiddle unless it’s clear that they know their time is done. I simply don’t believe McNabb sees his career in that light yet.
by PackApologist on Jan 7, 2011 10:36 AM CST up reply actions
Actually he is under contract with a cheap buy-out right now.
Manning is available right now but no one expects him to be available. McNabb is unavailabkle and everyone expects him to be available.
You know as well as anyone the difference between discussions based on logical assumptions and discussions based on a fan’s uneqivocal gut feelings.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
llv, can you produce the "qb mentoring stats" that you are refering to?
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Perhaps, and I could be wrong but...
Ultimately it’s going to come down to how the courtship process goes down between McNabb and the new team. If the team promises him the world and pays him top 5 QB money and then drafts a new guy I wouldn’t expect that to end well. If the team lets him know that he will probably be a stop gap and they hope to draft a guy but still him pretty well….well then that could workout.
Really all we have to talk about with McNabb is assumptions. It’s an assumption that Washington is going to cut him. It’s an assumption, based on previous statements that are now out of date, that he would prefer MN over anywhere else. Until February or March comes around all we have as football fans is assumptions and playoff football.
by PackApologist on Jan 7, 2011 10:32 AM CST up reply actions
And u should quit telling people how to post
@}-----You've been Touched-----{@
by Velvetouch on Jan 7, 2011 12:23 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
PA does a great job of posting and bases almost every post
on facts. Even those facts that don’t favor the Packers. But it is unusual for him to frame the discussions based on assumptions about the personal feelings of the players without saying so. I didn’t mean to tell him how to post ( he certainly doesn’t need that from me) I was trying to point out he should qualify his statements since they were simply his personal opinion not fact.
BUT if your offended by my pointing out the difference then that seems to be your issue. Not mine or PA.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
Nah it's all good
I like push back in arguments. It makes the conversation interesting. My skin is thick enough to take it.
by PackApologist on Jan 8, 2011 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
We don't need a perennial backup
like Shaun Hill to come in and “Compete” for the job. That’s a rigged competition. We need someone who is capable of actually being a starter. That pushed the young QB(s-ideally) to succeed, and gives us a realistic insurance policy.
Agreed
I say bring in Carson Palmer or VY, two guys who are decent, but can still compete, or help develop Webb. Or just play babysitter for a year while WEbb develops. MAYBE McNabb. I’m divided on him, but a little against. Alex Smith could also be an option.
You won't get Palmer
Not after that last game he had, and not now that Marvin Lewis got extended.
Please do not believe everything you hear about VY
Jeff Fisher has throw VY and others under the bus he has history of that.
Last season Fish went 0-6 till owner made him play VY.
Than we went 8-2 and saved the 2009 season .
Jeff has undermine VY since he was drafted the owner wanted VY not Fisher.
Please read the article about this.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/jeff-fisher-vince-young-tennessee-titans-cruel-game-112910
http://blogs.tennessean.com/titans/2011/01/06/still-expecting-fisher-back-in-2011/
Just getting the other side of the story out.
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