Ponder Era Begins. . .Sort Of. . .In 39-10 Loss To Chicago Bears
by Christopher Gates on Oct 16, 2011 10:48 PM CDT
in Minnesota Vikings 2011 Season
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PrintStatistically, if you look at Donovan McNabb's line from Sunday night, it doesn't look like he played all that badly. . .he only threw five incompletions on the evening, and put up 177 passing yards. However, as the fourth quarter started at Soldier Field on Sunday evening, Minnesota Vikings' head coach Leslie Frazier decided that the time had finally come.
And, with that, the Christian Ponder era got underway in Minnesota.
Sure, by the time that Ponder got into the game, the Vikings only had five healthy offensive lineman. . .Phil Loadholt was out of the game with an (as of now) undisclosed injury, and John Sullivan suffered a concussion early in the second half. As the Vikings only had seven offensive linemen dressed on the evening, another injury probably would have seen Jim Kleinsasser lining up at tackle or guard. However, despite that, and despite spending most of the evening running for his life, Ponder was not sacked once in 18 pass attempts, and completed 10 of his passes for 99 yards in his quarter of work.
It wasn't all "dinking and dunking" for Ponder, as his second NFL completion was a 20-yarder to Percy Harvin, converting for a first down a play after the Vikings had gotten called for holding. Ponder distributed his ten completions to seven different receivers, as he managed to find Michael Jenkins, Visanthe Shiancoe, Greg Camarillo, Toby Gerhart, Adrian Peterson. . .and even Bernard Berrian. (Sadly, this means that Berrian will probably still remain on the roster, so thanks for that, Christian.)
Yeah, we'll have plenty of time over the next couple of days to talk about the pounding the team took tonight, with the only non-Ponder Vikings highlights being the sack registered by Jared Allen to bring his total up to 9.5 and the subsequent touchdown by Peterson. But tonight, we got a little glimpse of the future at quarterback for the Minnesota Vikings.
Oh, and it appears we'll have a quarterback "controversy" to talk about over the next couple of days. Those are always fun, aren't they?
But that's about all for tonight, I think. Ted will be along tomorrow with the Stock Market Report after he recovers from his hangover after watching the St. Louis Cardinals move to the World Series. (OH NO, SOMETHING BAD HAPPENED TO A SPORTS TEAM FROM WISCONSIN! OH, THE HUMANITY!) Have a pleasant rest of your Sunday evening, ladies and gentlemen.
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Well it's that time, out with the old in with the new...
It’s time to start developing Ponder as the future of our team, the fans and state of Minnesota need to see the future of this franchise and know that it is bright and headed in the right direction. A solid draft next year and we’re right there in the mix for years to come. We have young studs in the making as it is in Ev Griffen, Ballard, Rudolph, Gerhart, and yes even Cook.
Even Cook?
What’s that supposed to mean? He was hurt most of last year and this year he’s shown signs of playmaking ability….I don’t get what you mean.
That's what he means.
Cook was bad last year, but this year he’s doing okay and seems to be a good player in the making.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Oct 16, 2011 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions
it's official, the vikings really, really suck.
as for the qb stat line…
McNabb :19-24 com-att / 177 yards / 79.2% / 7.4 ypa / 5 sacks / 43 yards / 0 td / 0 int / 97.4 qbr
Ponder : 9-17 com-att / 99 yards / 52.9% / 5.8ypa / 0 sacks / 0 yards / 0 td / 0 int / 70.5 qbr
but for the record, i think mcnabb is a big panzy. he is not an inspiring leader.
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
One big difference too for the discrepency between the completion %
Ponder actually made throws downfield. Apart from that one 30 yarder to Berrian, McNabb was just doing little dinky throws. Ponder seemed to recognize he needed to throw to recievers near the sticks on his 3rd downs, where as McNabb seems content to just get the ball out of his hand. (and into the turf)
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Oct 16, 2011 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions
but his downfield passes were mostly off target...he completed a lot of his short quick strikes.
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
by danny lloyd on Oct 16, 2011 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions
If he has a chance to plant his feet and throw
He’ll make those passes.
Tonight, he was running around, scrambling to keep plays alive, and throwing off of his back foot because of it.
Then again, that’ll happen with 40% of the starting O-line out of the game.
Even then, his passes were still close to the target, and catchable. I think the only one that wasn’t was his throw to the end zone. Give me that over a throw in the dirt any day of the week.
by Eric The Viking on Oct 16, 2011 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions
He was pretty close to the target, yes
Personally, I was impressed. I wasn’t sure how he’d do, and I disliked the pick when we grabbed him, but he came in and, I thought, did a damn good job. It makes me a little excited to see him actually start.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Oct 16, 2011 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Very true
but his down field options leave a lot to be desired. I just hope we leave him in to get some practice. Vikings battle cry – WE’RE BETTER THAN THE CARDINALS!
"Show me a hero, and I will write you a tragedy." - F. Scott Fitzgerald
i'll bet the stanford cardinal could beat the vikings right now.
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
by danny lloyd on Oct 16, 2011 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, they were
He’s got a good release though. I think it will just take some time. The medium routes were decent, he was just a little behind alot of recievers, which should be adjustable with some playing/practice time with the recievers he’ll play with.
The only bad thing that really stuck out to me was his deep throws. They looked funny and were pretty inaccurate.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Oct 16, 2011 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions
yea, i agree with that. that's what i saw too.
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
by danny lloyd on Oct 16, 2011 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Accurately and hitting receivers in stride too
Makes the slant a much more dangerous pass to defend when the receiver doesn’t have to stop, turn round, and make a shoelace catch.
by PURPpplEATER on Oct 17, 2011 9:30 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
what is curious is that i don't recall many/any quick slant plays called for mcnabb.
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
Where'd you get the info for that stat line?
Because it’s not correct..unless you got the rushing yards flip flopped between the two. I know Ponder had more than 0. Heck he got a few first downs off scrambling rushes.
by PURPpplEATER on Oct 17, 2011 8:17 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
EGG- ZACKLY
McNabb’s stat line is irrelevant. He is not a leader, not inspiring, doesnt make his team mates better, and never makes the important play. Oh, but his reputation as locker room cancer sure makes it all worth it, though, right?
What an awful move bringing him here. Ive said it a thousand times but i cant help repeating it ad nauseum . Whoever was the brain trust behind bringing McNabb to Minnesota should be fired and exiled from football. I saw this coming a mile away. He makes teams worse. No matter what his stats say, or what the coaches claim, he has a negative effect on a football team. Has for years.
Glad to see the Ponder era begin. Now, dont get all mental and start McNabb next week to try and prove you arent giving up on him. Number 5 is done. Throwing him back out there out of stubbornness or misplaced loyalty helps no one. Let the future begin. Ponder can earn the teams respect, get some much needed experience, and make us all want to watch every play. McNabb can bounce a few more 3rd and 8’s or fold into a couple of sacks while looking disinterested and aloof.
The future is now. Embrace it.
by alec j on Oct 17, 2011 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec´d
for truth.
"First team in NFL history to lose first 3 games after leading by double digits at halftime"
Only 3 games in, and we´ve already made history!
by AustrianViking on Oct 17, 2011 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions
A couple of Ponders
were him running for his life and throwing it away out of bounds
by Simply_Greatness on Oct 17, 2011 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions
TWELVE CARRIES.
Twelve.
That’s all Peterson got tonight. And, after that drive where he scored the touchdown, I can’t really remember them running the ball with him after that.
We have the best running back in football, who can break a big one at any given time, even with 12 men in the box (yeah, I said it), and we only let him run the ball twelve times? Are you kidding me?
Where’s the ball control? Where’s the smart play calling? Anyone else notice what happened when McNabb gave up that safety? Two straight pass plays… from the 5 yard line… That safety, the lack of carries for Peterson (not just tonight, the entire year), and the reluctance to call any pass play that, god forbid, actually goes beyond the first down marker, should all result in the firing of Bill Musgrave. And if not, then someone needs to step in and change the whole damn system.
I like Les, but if this is all that he can offer, he needs to go too.
by Eric The Viking on Oct 16, 2011 11:04 PM CDT reply actions
Kinda hard
to call pass plays that go beyond the first down marker when McNabb has proven that he can’t complete those passes
And it’s also tough to run the ball when you’re down 20 points
Mikael Granlund: The Great Hope
by NorthernStar on Oct 16, 2011 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions
LOL
Most teams dont run the ball when you are consistently down by 16+ points all night. Especially in the second half. He also averaged 3.3 YPC, so that shows that the Bears were shutting him down tonight. Believe me, he got the carries early and often. The offensive line was not opening holes for him and the Bears front 8 were shutting him down. It also doesnt help when you have 2 3 & Outs early on, because of dropped passes by Shaincoe and Berrian.
Ponder to Harvin for 6!
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Oct 16, 2011 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions
1st half : 8 rushes / 16 yards / 2.0 ypc...that's it.
then he started out in the second half and was a spark that helped move the ball. then he was done.
p.s. he just signed a $100m contract. he is our star. he should get more than 39 yards.
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
by danny lloyd on Oct 16, 2011 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Come on
This was Musgrave’s fault he is the most predictable play caller ever, the Bears literally had 9 men in the box for 3 of AP’s runs, no RB/OL in the league can run on that, and numerous other occasions there were minimum of 8 near the line. Surely a play action on first down or a screen would of not hurt….
yep, it's musgrave's fault....and frazier, spielman and chilly for not getting an o-line.
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
by danny lloyd on Oct 16, 2011 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Best example of this is San Fran
They have a top 5 OL and it makes Smith and Gore look untouchable.
yep, they have an o-line for the future...and their coach has them pretty fired up.
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
by danny lloyd on Oct 16, 2011 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Lots of faults to go around in this one methinks
If Frazier would have kicked Schwartz in the balls 2 weeks ago it could have been a rallying point. It’s the little things mns51, it’s the little things!
"Show me a hero, and I will write you a tragedy." - F. Scott Fitzgerald
Fact is
As many of ys wanted. Why didn’t we get two premeir O-line guys inthe last draft by sliding back? We could have had Pouncy, Solder, or Weisniewski -All starters right now. Maybe Ponder would have been there if we had aquired anothe 2nd rounder. If not is Dalton looking like such a bad option for the Vikings now?
AKA : Revenge4Webb
by CitrusFLViking on Oct 16, 2011 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions
orange hair and purple jersey = scary. just look at toby!!!
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
by danny lloyd on Oct 16, 2011 11:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Where the heck have you been?
Been looking for you! Others have been as well.
"Show me a hero, and I will write you a tragedy." - F. Scott Fitzgerald
I don't think he would have
Seattle still had to pick a QB, and then there were the ’9er’s and Bengals ahead of us in the 2nd too. It was a reach, but it was something of a necessary reach if we wanted a QB. Otherwise we would’ve had to trade up to get him and people would bitch about giving up picks to get him.
Although we did trade up for Rudolph if I recall correctly, so idk.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Oct 16, 2011 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions
This
Hey Cit! Some didnt get it when you I and Cali pitched for Dalton and he’s doing it up making the Bengals look good. Hope you are well and good been a bit.
@}-----You've been Touched-----{@
Believe me
He did not get the ball early and often.
Let’s take a look, shall we?
Drive 1:
1st-10, MIN20 15:00 A. Peterson rushed to the right for 1 yard gain
2nd-9, MIN21 14:24 A. Peterson rushed to the right for 2 yard gain
3rd-7, MIN23 13:43 D. McNabb incomplete pass to the left
4th-7, MIN23 13:30 C. Kluwe punt, no return
Drive 2:
1st-10, MIN20 12:17 D. McNabb incomplete pass to the left
2nd-10, MIN20 12:13 A. Peterson rushed to the right for 5 yard gain
3rd-5, MIN25 11:37 D. McNabb incomplete pass to the left
4th-5, MIN25 11:21 C. Kluwe punt, no return
Drive 3:
1st-10, MIN5 7:35 D. McNabb passed to K. Rudolph to the right for 2 yard gain
2nd-8, MIN7 6:52 D. McNabb sacked by S. Paea. D. McNabb sacked for a safety
Drive 4:
1st-10, MIN20 3:34 A. Peterson rushed to the right for no gain
2nd-10, MIN20 2:57 D. McNabb passed to K. Rudolph to the left for 18 yard gain
1st-10, MIN38 2:18 A. Peterson rushed to the right for 4 yard gain
2nd-6, MIN42 1:44 J. Webb incomplete pass to the right
3rd-6, MIN42 1:37 D. McNabb passed to P. Harvin down the middle for 11 yard gain
1st-10, CHI47 0:59 A. Peterson rushed to the left for 2 yard gain
2nd-8, CHI45 0:22 P. Harvin rushed to the right for 5 yard gain [End of quarter]
Second Quarter: Peterson touches the ball two times.
Third Quarter: Peterson touches the ball on ONE drive. Guess which one? His TD Drive. Total? 3 rushes, 20 yards & a TD
Fourth Quarter: One rush for Peterson, just as Ponder comes in. Then he goes out.
Why am I the only one who has a problem with this?
Okay, fine, we’re down by a little bit. So we stop running… But there’s a problem with that…
McNabb sucks, and our passing attack is based off of play action. If we’re not going to run the ball… AT ALL, then we can’t do anything with it!
by Eric The Viking on Oct 16, 2011 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Plus the safety was ridiculous
who turtles inside the endzone? he had time to dive forward or at least put the ball forward…
And how 'bout throwing the ball away
He (McNabb) should’ve avoided at least two of those sacks. The one rolling right where Peppers pushed him down was damned rediculous. I was impressed how Ponder stepped away from the rush and threw the ball away when he had nothing.
by Caretaker QB on Oct 17, 2011 12:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Exactly!
McNabb just stood there at least a couple times..I realize some of this was the o-line but at least one of those was just regular coverage pressure..he had a lot of time..watch the guy eventually shed his block and mcnabb just stood there and went down..didn’t even try to move..he pretty much just turtled again..wtf was that..no heart whatsoever..Pondeer may have looked nervous and raw but he avoided the rush many times(saw 2 times that I thought Peppers was actually going to bodybag him). Many of those times he rushed for some good yards, made a pass down the field, or just threw it away. This also happened to be when Chicago pinned their ears back because they knew it was garbage time. They knew Ponder didn’t come in to just run the clock down and hand it off. So they didn’t respect the run and knew a pass was coming almost every down. Makes it tough on a kid coming into that situation but he did a fine job leading us into field goal range with both of his opportunities. Also, while the stats don’t show it, he also did something that McTurf has struggled to do all year. He converted on 3rd down to keep the drives going..multiple times(5 if I remember right) If you continually keep drives alive and consistently make it into FG/red zone range, eventually you will get some TD’s. Especially if they have to also respect the run(AP will actually be in the game) as well as pass. So bravo Christian..may you please suit up next week. I don’t honestly believe many of us are expecting a win next week anyways but let’s at least take something from it. It’s the same concept as last year, Favre wasn’t producing all year, we were out of playoff contention, and we had a young talent waiting to show what he could do. McTurf is not good and his recent stats were a product of short throws and easy completion passes(which were still way off the mark and in situations where we needed 7yds and he would throw a 2 yarder to the sidelines) The stuff that doesn’t show up in the stats such as the safety turtle, being sacked when he could/should have easily avoided the rush, the short-stat padding passes on 3rd and long, and of course the turf balls.(Many of his completions where toe balls that receivers had to stop their routes to make a catch) Ponder hit damn near everyone in stride..resulting in the chains moving.
by PURPpplEATER on Oct 17, 2011 8:51 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
For those who are interested...
The completion of the field goal drive was this…
3rd-3, CHI40 15:00 D. McNabb passed to P. Harvin to the left for 14 yard gain
1st-10, CHI26 14:36 D. McNabb passed to P. Harvin to the right for 6 yard loss
2nd-16, CHI32 14:00 D. McNabb passed to P. Harvin to the right for 6 yard gain
3rd-10, CHI26 13:23 D. McNabb passed to V. Shiancoe to the left for 8 yard gain
4th-2, CHI18 12:37 R. Longwell kicked a 37-yard field goal
by Eric The Viking on Oct 16, 2011 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions
And
you can argue that the Vikings should have given it to him on first down but on the 6 First and 10s prior in the game, he had received the ball 4 times and ran for 7 yards.
Ponder to Harvin for 6!
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Oct 16, 2011 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions
You just validated my point
I said he got the ball early and often. 6 times he got the ball on our first 15 plays, and he had 14 yards to show for it. You cant possibly make a case for Peterson not getting the ball enough when the offense has 15(!) plays in their first 4 drives. Basically if even one of Shanks or Berrians drops is caught, he would obviously get more touches. And dont even get me started on Mcnabbs lay down in the end zone.
Finally, by the time the second quarter started we were already in a 16-0 hole and heres a breakdown of our 18 plays.
11 plays were on 2nd or 3rd down and 6 of those plays in the Second quarter were 7+ yards to go. Peterson was averaging 2 ypc, why give him the ball when you need 7+ yards and you’re trying to come back if you know they’re stacking the box for him.
Of those 18 plays Mcnabb completed passes of 10+ yards or more 5 times.
Finally 4 of those 18 plays were after the 2 Minute warning. Again why give him the ball if you need points right now and the Bears are shutting him down.
I just really don’t understand what you guys want from the coaching staff, sure he could’ve gotten some more carries but would have it covered 30 points? No not even close
Ponder to Harvin for 6!
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Oct 16, 2011 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions
No, I think most people understand why Peterson wasn't a big force in this game
It’s just a few people. Once they got up 16-0 it was pretty apparent that Peterson wasn’t going to be playing alot this game. There was just no way we’d be able to pass our way into catching up.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Oct 16, 2011 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Naw, im just speaking to these
guys that are calling for heads, not most.
And another thing, people complain that the play calling is predictable, so Musgrave brings in the Blazer package to try and get the Bears defense off guard, and they complain how that was a drive killer. Jeez what do you want?
Ponder to Harvin for 6!
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Oct 16, 2011 11:42 PM CDT up reply actions
i want musgrave to mix up his playcalling without resorting to gimmicks.
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
by danny lloyd on Oct 16, 2011 11:50 PM CDT up reply actions
why change when they were having success?
I guess I saw it as McNabb was finally getting some rhythm going, and bringing in the blazer package just killed it.
IF they’re going to try this sort of gimmickry, I guess I’d either start out a drive with the blazer package and run the whole drive that way, or at least have Webb on the field as a WR for a number of plays before tossing him into the QB spot, you could run hurry-up so the D doesn’t have time to sub personnel for your new alignment…..
You're Missing the Point
Peterson is what we call a home run hitter. Does he wiff from time to time? Yeah, but he also has the ability to break off a game changing play. And even though we were down 16-0, that’s still a number you can come back from. Why do you run in that situation? A) Your back is Adrian Peterson, an aforementioned home run hitter and B) You eat up some clock time. Why would you want to eat up some clock time? Simple, keep their offense off the field, and keep your defense resting as well. Why is that a big deal? Because obviously something is happening, and either your guys need a rest, you need time to plan adjustments, or you need to do something, anything, to keep their offensive off of the field, because it’s killing you.
Giving Peterson the ball one time every three plays, while it sounds nice, is not cutting it. Especially with McNabb at QB. He can’t hit a receiver in stride, he aims at the ground, and he just turtles up at the first little finger poke from a defender. Clearly, the passing game wasn’t working, throw out McNabb’s numbers, they don’t mean anything. All that they allowed was for the Bears O to get back on the field and continue killing us. Also, PETERSON IS YOUR BEST PLAYER. YOU GET THE BALL INTO THE HANDS OF YOUR PLAY MAKERS. PERIOD.
You’re complaining that he wasn’t doing anything? He wasn’t given a chance. Because Musgrave was having too much fun calling pass plays that were too short of the first down that McNabb couldn’t even make. Or, he was letting the Bears call a time out because they weren’t ready for an obvious play, and then coming out in the exact same formation which they already adjusted to with their time out. Yeah, Peterson is really going to get to do something with that play when the Bears know exactly what is coming.
by Eric The Viking on Oct 17, 2011 12:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Thats the point
Look what the bears did the established and were succesful with the run thus opening up the passing game. Not sure what game you watched but giving Peterson the ball all day last night when he continued (no fault of his own) to get stuffed just isnt going to happen. The game plan was simple last night for the bears…Stop the pass rush and the run at the line of scrimmage, force Mnabb who all the NFL knows cant throw downfield consistantly and game over. Pretty text book football.
@}-----You've been Touched-----{@
agreed, but...
…i think all coaches will get a pass because it “takes time to adjust to a new system”.
LF and/or the FO has made bad personnel decisions in acquiring or not cutting certain players (Charlie Johnson, Tyrell Johnson, Berrian, et al). Musgrave’s system is uninspiring and “too clever for itself”.
more importantly, the playcalling and game plans have been awful. up to tonight, we were making stupid decisions like passing on 3rd and 1 when the run was extremely effective. tonight, the game plan should have been to throw deep on two Safeties who aren’t used to starting. yet, we ran against 8 or 9 in the box, then abandoned the run for dink and dunk passes, then only started throwing effectively when the game was done and Ponder was in.
so in essence, we won’t see change at the coaching positions. but Musgrave should have his feet held to the fire. everything in that playbook needs to be revisited and revised, and the Blazer package simply needs to go.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
yea, the blazer package was ridiculous...what a drive killer.
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
by danny lloyd on Oct 16, 2011 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Honestly though
I wonder how much is Musgrave and how much is McNabb. You saw deeper throws when Ponder was in. Its like McNabb doesn’t want to throw that deep downfield and prefers to just nickle and dime his way up the field.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Oct 16, 2011 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Musgrave is still the genius
That decided to throw on 3rd and 1, and then hand off to Gerhart on 4th and 1… Specifically after Peterson asked for the ball…
Oh, and when it ended up costing us the game because we didn’t kick the field goal.
by Eric The Viking on Oct 16, 2011 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Thaaat was Frazier
not Musgrave. Frazier pulled the kicking team off the field.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Oct 16, 2011 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions
musgrave put in the webb cat crap today and killed any hope for a drive.
that was puuuure genius.
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
by danny lloyd on Oct 16, 2011 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't really have an issue with that.
It was sort of a drive killer, but the offense wasn’t doing much, and if you want to start doing a wildcat, there’s going to be some growing pains.
by Darth Paxton on Oct 16, 2011 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions
it killed 2 drives that were going well. i think it was just really dumb.
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
by danny lloyd on Oct 16, 2011 11:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah that's hard to defend
Coaches make mistakes, but that was pretty dumb. Or the time the Bears called that T.O. because they couldn’t handle our formation with their personnel… so we ran the same formation again after. Seemed a little silly.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Oct 16, 2011 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions
that irritated me, too
it was the second play of the game, wasn’t it?? they just followed the script — should have held that one in their back pocket, but they tipped their hand for future use. what a waste.
it’s little things like that that make me question the coaching staff. i know they’re all basically learning on the job as they go along, but c’mon — you made the Bears burn a timeout in the first minute of the game… i’d say mission accomplished and move on to a different play.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
I wouldnt mind the formation or the putting of joe webb in the game
McNabb was terrible and that may have been a spark putting Webb in but the call and execution was horrible. You think, when a faster and younger QB that has been known to just run a lot comes into a game that the defense isn’t going to key on him. I wouldn’t have minded that play if it was a run/pass option or QB bootleg rollout but it looked like just a designed QB keeper run. That is not a good call when you know the defense is going to be keying on that guy. But then we also had McNabb lined up at wide receiver. Was that supposed to be clever? What purpose did that serve..honestly..we all knew he wasn’t getting the ball. The only thing I could think of was a double pass or something back to him..but that was scrapped the moment joe webb instantly started running to the right. So I ask again what was he doing there? It can make sense when Webb lines up at receiver because he could be a legitimate threat but the idea is not reversible Musgrave. You are essentially taking one player out of the game for our offense. That leaves the defender covering Mcnabb with the ability to forget about him entirely and get in on the play. JusT too much fail on that play!!
by PURPpplEATER on Oct 17, 2011 9:13 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
I’m not sure why they keep Mcnabb in there for the Blazer package, anytime Webb is on the field he will most likely get the ball, if they are going to run it they should have Webb and Harvin on the field for sure. It seemed like they wanted Webb to throw it on the second one though.
by Simply_Greatness on Oct 17, 2011 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions
What to think?
Personally, I don’t really know. I thought ponder looked promising, albeit his deep passes were not the greatest, but that is something that at this point I believe will get better. McNabb had what I believe was his statistically best game but what do we have to lose now by not playing Ponder? If he does well, think of what he will do with a better o-line? If he sucks, we kick him to the curb and do whatever we need to do to barter to get 1st overall pick and draft Luck. Look, I like Ponder, but there’s no comparison to Luck.
Regarding McNabb..
I kind of noticed his stupid little smile disappeared at some point, and it was around there that he started to actually perform. I wonder if Frazier didn’t pull him aside and let him know that if he kept playing like shit he was going to be replaced. It sort of sucks that he needs some sort of motivation like that to play well/get serious.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Oct 16, 2011 11:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree
He seems like a “fun” guy to be around, but the leadership skills just don’t seem to be there. It’s like my 4 yr old nephew…he’ll be a little shit until he’s threatened he’ll get his toys taken from him, then he acts better. Kids are going to react like that; an adult should not, especially the “leader” of an NFL team.
I'm digging Christian Ponder
he really did look awesome tonight. Converted a ton of 3rd downs, way more than McNabb; didn’t overthrow anybody that wasn’t a mistiming with the receivers…but that’ll happen with a rookie quarterback. Personally, I loved what I saw and I think we can really build around this kid.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
SKOL VIKINGS!
mcnabb was 3-7 on third-fourth down pass attempts....ponder was 2-5.
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
by danny lloyd on Oct 16, 2011 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Different situations
warrant different results. Ponder also converted two first downs just with his legs, and he avoided at least 4 sacks where McNabb would have been toast in the pocket. Way better pocket awareness, and he really didn’t miss ANY short throws (can’t say the same about McNabb). Plus he’s a rookie; I liked what I saw. What’d you think?
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
SKOL VIKINGS!
well, i'm not going to skew my comments about their play just b-cuz of bias.
mcnabb did a lot of things well, and ponder threw some pretty inaccurqte throws.
both qbs were facing a rush. overall, i liked what ponder did. it was a good first
game for him. i liked that he came in in relief and got a chance at a few drives.
but, i need to see a bit more before i start making the blanket statements that
a lot of ponder groupies seem to be making.
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
by danny lloyd on Oct 16, 2011 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know about McNabb doing alot of things well
He clicked at one point finally, but, unfortunately, by that time the game was already out of reach. When we needed him to step up, he was horrible.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Oct 16, 2011 11:51 PM CDT up reply actions
he never seems to step up. what an enigma he is.
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
by danny lloyd on Oct 16, 2011 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions
to be fair, though...
…Ponder was in there with a couple backups on an already terrible OLine. he actually had presence of mind in the pocket to escape getting sacked multiple times, something McNabb seems to have trouble doing.
tangent off of that, on the play that ended in a safety, McNabb just dropped to the friggin’ ground. i’d think almost any other QB would sacrifice taking a huge hit to try and push forward to avoid a safety… McNabb only tried after he was on the ground. the effort just doesn’t appear to be there with McNabb.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
i'm just not so quick to give ponder the benefit of selective analysis...
while throwing mcnabb under the bus for the same things (i.e. inaccuracy, bad o-line…) i’m not of the opinion that ponder is automatically some kind of savior. i want to see him perform and develop with the same scrutiny that any other player gets. i would rather be realistic about what ponder does well, and what he doesn’t, and not build false projections….
but then again, i would never go to FSU !!! ;)
it’s the purple kool-aid syndrome that is bothersome to me.
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
i completely agree
just playing devil’s advocate ;)
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
Ponder also ran for a first down.
And didn’t get sacked, despite playing against the same players and with the same O-line.
Plus, his short throws were actually well thrown. McNabb had a good game statistically, but watching it, especially in the first half, made you want to tear your hair out.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Oct 16, 2011 11:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Statistically, McNabb's BEST was not even average.
I would like it more if we had a quarterback who averaged 374 yards per game, like Brady, instead of 169 yards per game, like McNabb. Can Ponder do that? I dunno, but I know McNabb can’t.
My mother, who got lyme disease this summer deep in the north woods of Minnesota, could probably throw more yards just because she’s not feeling very well and pissed off about it, unlike Mr. Lackadaisical McNabb.
by liveforadrenaline on Oct 16, 2011 11:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I think he can be that kind of QB.
Remember, he had a horrible supporting cast when he was at FSU. 0 run game and no receivers (sorry FSU fans, it’s true) but he has an awesome skill set. Won the MVP of the Senior Bowl; last quarterback to do that was Philip Rivers. He’s a really underrated guy; he’s going to be a lot better than people gave him credit for.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
SKOL VIKINGS!
he reminds me of drew brees, but without quite the arm.
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
by danny lloyd on Oct 16, 2011 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions
He reminds me of Brees, too
He has a pretty good arm too. Whenever someone says something about his arm not being that strong, I show them this video..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-Jar435rnc
:)
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
SKOL VIKINGS!
his arm strength is okay, not great...it's the accuracy issue downfield, imo.
brees has a better arm, but it took him a while to become the player he is now.
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
by danny lloyd on Oct 16, 2011 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions
but one thing i really like is his quick release. he uses it well too
to get out of trouble.
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
by danny lloyd on Oct 17, 2011 12:27 AM CDT up reply actions
What the heck
He throws a normal ball on that throw. When he throws that deep now though its like he aims it upward for an arch rather than trying to throw it out there.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Oct 16, 2011 11:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah he has some zingers and some air balls...
I really like his throws though. They’re beautiful.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
SKOL VIKINGS!
Not his deep ones
Short/Intermediate are beauties. The deep balls make me cringe though.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Oct 17, 2011 12:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah he just needs to get on par with some of his receivers...
remember, he didn’t really have a “deep ball receiver” in college. I’m sure he’ll get them down though. He definitely has the technique to get that down though. I’d rather have a bunch of short and intermediate beauties while he’s developing than an occasional okay deep ball from McNabb.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
SKOL VIKINGS!
They are suspect
But videos of his throws at FSU point towards the positivity that he can have a strong deep ball…only time will tell
yea, those deep one's are really beautiful...
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
by danny lloyd on Oct 17, 2011 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions
No Quarterback
is averaging 374 yards per game and only 6 are north of 300 a game.
Ponder to Harvin for 6!
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Oct 16, 2011 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions
exactly
Typical Viking fan expectations: unrealistic. I would be happy with 250, 2 TD and 0 INT
If you don't like my stats, then
take it up with ESPN and Yahoo Sports.
by liveforadrenaline on Oct 17, 2011 12:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Exactly, none are at or north of 374.
Ponder to Harvin for 6!
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Oct 20, 2011 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions
And two of those 4 incompletes were drops
Ponder to Harvin for 6!
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Oct 16, 2011 11:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not giving him the Shiancoe drop
Yes, it should have been caught, but come on. When a reciever is that wide open, the ball should not be so far above his head. If that ball was placed more reasonably, it would have easily been a first down.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Oct 16, 2011 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions
shiancoe clanked that one, even if it was a high throw. it was totally catchable.
and what about berrian’s…that one literally hit him in between the numbers.
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
by danny lloyd on Oct 16, 2011 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions
No, I'm giving him Berrian's because that was a good throw
And I know it was catchable. I’m saying it should have been. But it was still an ugly, ugly throw by McNabb. Sucks Shank had to reach up for it. Like I said, if it had been lower (not at his feet low, obv.. but with McNabb it needs clarifying!) though.. he’d have been able to get a good amount of YAC and that 1st
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Oct 17, 2011 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions
we didn't need yac, it was a 1st down and it was thrown over the top of the line.
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
by danny lloyd on Oct 17, 2011 12:02 AM CDT up reply actions
The berrian throw was def on BB
Shiancoe’s pass was on both; it was not a great pass by McNabb but it hit shiancoes hands so he should’ve caught it, imo
McNabb is gone next year
He is unable to rally this team. He needs to retire. That is how it is. Time to give our #1 pick some experience.
"Show me a hero, and I will write you a tragedy." - F. Scott Fitzgerald
by abba7 on Oct 16, 2011 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yep
So glad they got him on a 1 year deal.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Oct 16, 2011 11:49 PM CDT up reply actions
i want to make a quick trade of mcnabb to oakland tommorrow.
they need a qb, campbell got hurt.
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
by danny lloyd on Oct 16, 2011 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd be down.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
SKOL VIKINGS!
Hecks yeah.
That would be a dream come true. Id take a 6th round pick and giggle with joy. McNabb is team cancer.
LOL that would be awesome
i joked about that to my wife last night, but said no team would take him. forgot about Campbell’s collarbone. hell, i’d take a 7th rounder.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
The play calling just seemed
Quicker and more “modern” with Ponder than McNabb, which I can only assume is due to skill sets?
Ponder was drafted to fit the offense
based off of his skill set. He’s a more natural fit into Musgrave’s offense than McNabb because of his ability to throw accurate footballs. The offensive tempo is going to feel a lot better when he’s in the game as opposed to McNabb; it almost feels forced when McFlab is in there.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
SKOL VIKINGS!
Yeah McNabb has just appeared awkward
And “going thru the motions”
maybe that's why Musgrave's offense isn't "clicking"
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
Over/under on Ponder related fanposts in the next three days? I’m thinking 9.
"Let's go our there, and stick our fists through their ribcages, rip our their hearts, eat them, and shit them back out on the field!!" - Blue Mountain State
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Oct 16, 2011 11:50 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Under, way under.
I’m predicting…. 4.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Oct 16, 2011 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I might be throwing one up tomorrow...
“Pondering the Future” ?!?!?!
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
SKOL VIKINGS!
please don't....that will make me barf.
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
by danny lloyd on Oct 16, 2011 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I think that's what he meant by
“throwing one up”!
"Show me a hero, and I will write you a tragedy." - F. Scott Fitzgerald
funny !!!
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
by danny lloyd on Oct 17, 2011 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions
HE WENT THERE!!!!
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
SKOL VIKINGS!
There is no controversy
if you want to win, play Ponder…McNabb has shown he does not have what it takes to lead this team to victory
Time to start building around Ponder
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
SKOL VIKINGS!
Right Grape
If we’re gonna lose let the kid take his knocks. Plenty a good Qb has. We draft O-lone next year (should have this year) Just hope the stock is as good next draft
AKA : Revenge4Webb
by CitrusFLViking on Oct 16, 2011 11:53 PM CDT reply actions
It's a great stock
If not better. Three guys could hit the top 12, bunch of good round 2 guys as well. We should be able to snag one with our first pick.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
SKOL VIKINGS!
Agreed
The picks NEED to go to OL, you win the game in the trenches (especially when you want to be centered around AP)
by Grape Drank on Oct 16, 2011 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah we need an OL.
Then WR.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
SKOL VIKINGS!
And a CB, and a Safety.
Cedric looked bad tonight. I liked CG but his knees are done. Cook was the only one in the secondary that played worth a damn. But I agree, OL is at the top of the list.
by Caretaker QB on Oct 17, 2011 12:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Griffin
i noticed that, as well. there’s no way to salvage Ced if he continues to play like that. i’d be all for drafting a CB and shifting Griffin to FS (assuming it would be a smooth transition).
but even on that note, i want to see Mistral Raymond activated, along with Brandon Burton. i could really see the future CB’s being Cook/Burton/Sherels. wishful thinking, maybe, but Ced doesn’t look good and i’ve never been impressed with Asher (his INT last week notwithstanding).
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
Get on facebook for a minute
if u would be so kind!
"Show me a hero, and I will write you a tragedy." - F. Scott Fitzgerald
Worst case scenario
Looking at our schedule the rest of the season, we might beat Denver at home…..
So playing Ponder we go 2-14, at worst we go 1-15 and if Ponder really doesn’t look like he’s significantly adjusting to the NFL and can be a QB of the future then we’re in position to take Andrew Luck or the best OT in the draft.
Start Ponder, see ya McNabb
Redskins too maybe.
Grossman remembered that he was Grossman today so they might be a winnable game too if they keep playing like they did. Which really was what everyone was expecting out of them this year.
Yeah and Carolina...
Newton might be trouble but their defense is vanilla. I say we have a top 7 pick to address our O-Line or receiving core. Time to start building around Ponder.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
SKOL VIKINGS!
4-12 record
if we’re lucky..tonight was very uninspiring..
It's true that McNabb...
…. was statistically ok, but the Bears played the run and dared McNabb to beat them, and he couldn’t get it done. He still missed lots of throws and didn’t move the ball efficiently and get us in the end zone. The way the Bears brought people up to the line to stack the run, any QB was going to put up decent numbers.
So I don’t think McNabb having a “decent” game changes much. He still didn’t get it done. How much was his fault, or the O-line, or the drops and poor routes, I couldn’t say. But, if we are going to lose anyhow, we might as well see what Ponder can do, and figure out if he is our guy. And get him seasoned for next season. And, who knows, he might even be a spark for some wins.
by HammeroftheGods on Oct 17, 2011 12:48 AM CDT reply actions
He certainly looked like a win-sparker tonight.
I was fantastically impressed with his poise in the pocket and his ability to keep his eyes down the field, as well as deliver accurate passes. Loved it.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
SKOL VIKINGS!
From henceforth he shall be known as PONDEER
It started as a typo but then I thought it was a good nickname. He looks like a deer in the headlights(not a knock on him but you can tell he was nervous) and when he gets that look he tends to gallop for good yardage. He’s agile like bambi. Haha..loved what I saw from the kid. He better get the start next week.
by PURPpplEATER on Oct 17, 2011 9:44 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Remaining schedule
I don’t see too many wins in these games. If I had to pick 3 more, I’d say Carolina, Oakland (QB injured today, out for the year), and Denver – because they’re totally trying to lose.
GB
@ CAR
@ GB
OAK
@ ATL
DEN
@ DET
NO
@ WAS
CHI
Yeah,
I would say Carolina, Oakland, and Denver would be our easiest three. Then in order from there, from easiest to hardest, goes…
1. @WAS
2. @ATL
3. NO
4. CHI
5. @DET
6. GB
7. @GB
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
SKOL VIKINGS!
In preseason
I picked em to go at 5-11 I gave them 1 of the first 4. They play Ponder They will pull 3 more out just out of the fact what I saw last night when he played. He wont carry them yet but he will add a huge spark they need now.
@}-----You've been Touched-----{@
even those won't be cakewalks, though...
Carolina, Oakland, Denver… Cam, Pryor, Tebow. same game plan — stop the rushing QB. ha.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
on that Denver comment - I should explain
8 days ago, John Elway was on the sideline at the Stanford game, no doubt getting a good look at Andrew Luck.
The next day, the Broncos benched Orton, despite most in the sports media claiming the Broncos do not believe Tebow will fare better than Orton, but rather, because they wanted to prove he would fail to their fans.
Then, they put trade feelers out this week on their two best WR’s. Who gets rid of their top two WR’s when starting a new, young QB?
I think they want to tank and pick up extra draft picks. Elway’s a Stanford guy, and I think he has his mind made up on Luck..
I like Ponder
The only good thing about this game was Ponder. I see another Brett Favre. He moves, runs and made the Bears front line look foolish. He has great awareness and can throw on the move. Even Al & Chris were impressed!
I hope he is our future.
Now, if you will all excuse me, I have to go and throw up again. Tonight’s game made me very VERY nauseous!
SKOL VIKINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I loved Ponder as well.
Reminded me a lot of Fran Tarkenton or Drew Brees, actually, with his accuracy/shiftiness.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
SKOL VIKINGS!
McNabb
It’s going to take a lot of Campbell’s Chunky Soup to turn this season around for McNabb. I don’t think there is enough soup to do it. Even McNabb’s momma left the game early.
Oh, oh…..I have to go. I’m going to be (burp) oops…sick again!
SKOL VIKINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
total deja vu
i remember exactly the same thing happening last year.. chicago o-line sucking and defense struggling big time, vikes coming in everyone expecting them to take full advantage with prob a dozen sacks and AP 200+ yrds rushing.. and then the game actually happens, we instantly restore chicago’s confidence and catapult them on their ensuing run of wins..
glad we could provide u much needed therapy, chicago..
"Did you ever think how rediculous phones would look if our ears were nowhere near our mouths?" - Steven Wright
also time to realize our D kinda sucks..and o-line really sucks
we can blame mcnabb til the ferrets come home.. time to realize unless JA/BR get constant pressure, the rest of our D, just plain sucks.. and how about our ‘improving’ o-line on that safety where mcnabb had about half a second to throw..
"Did you ever think how rediculous phones would look if our ears were nowhere near our mouths?" - Steven Wright
Last time we had the 7th pick
A GREAT player was taking :) … Hopefully that will be a repeat. You build line out.
☠★☪Creator of http://skolnation.co.cc and dedicated DN reader.
by UnBannedVikingholic on Oct 17, 2011 8:09 AM CDT reply actions
McNabb wants to...
… prove he can still play to a high level – the Vikings need to see what they have in Ponder – the Raiders need a QB for the remainder of the season.
Sounds like grounds for a trade for a 2013 7th round pick if the Carson Palmer deal doesn’t gain momention.
by blowfishes on Oct 17, 2011 8:25 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
I sometimes hate my iPhone’s auto-correct…
by blowfishes on Oct 17, 2011 8:28 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
The vikes need..
..to rebuild, they need to play Ponder and Webb to see what they’ve got, try to trade McNabb and save the draft pick. They need to rebuild the whole offensive line, to do that they are going to need alot of draft picks. I think they need to trade some of their good players for draft picks, even trading away AP if they could find a sucker like the what Vikes gave up for H. Walker . Its going to take at least several years to rebuild, and by then AP. , J.Allen, K. Willams, will all be past their prime . Steve Hutch. and Klinsasser(?) will most likely be gone. They have some good younger D. line players, But they are going to need to upgrade the linebackers, at least EJ and maybe Erin. And they definetly need better D backs and safetys. Trade Griffin and Johnson for what they can get. A team with a great O line can make a decent running back look good, A team with a bad Oline can make a great running back look bad. If it was my job, I’d trade off some of the best players and get as many draft picks as possible and do hopefully a Quick rebuild.
You dont trade your best player
You especially don’t trade your best player when you just signed him to a long expensive contract..even if you wanted to do that, teams wouldn’t take that huge contract for him. Secondly I agree that it’ll take awhile for us to be very dominant again. We need work at O-line bad..been saying this for 4 years. I keep imagining having a top 5 o-line for AP..the damage we could do. But like you said things take time and we were drafting for the future. Picked up a lot of young talent in rudolph, ponder, ballard, love, fusco. I feel next draft we’ll look for O-line, WR, and secondary. Maybe a linebacker. Then at least we’ll have young talent at all of our positions, AND we still have talented veterans to hold the fort down while we transition. The metrodome wasn’t built in a day folks..it takes time for young talent to develop. (Unless you’re tyrell johnsons)
by PURPpplEATER on Oct 17, 2011 9:57 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
No one seems to have mentioned...
that Ponder dropped back to pass 18 times in a row…18! This is extremely important when trying to compare Ponder v. McNabb. The Vikes had 100% abandoned the run and looked to be solely trying to evaluate Ponder under the most duress they could create. Down by a zillion, 2nd string of a crappy o line and not even the tiniest hint that they would think of running the ball. That was not actually playing a football game, at best it was the Vikes tesing him in extreme conditions, at worst it was leading him to slaughter…and he came out all right I might add.
That's what I was getting at earlier
The defense knew what was coming every play and Ponder was still finding open guys and hitting them accurately. He drove us down the field everytime he was in the game and would have lead us to points both times if we went for the FG. It’s not a TD but when it’s only passing and there’s no balance at all, he did a hell of a job of driving the field and keeping drives alive by converting 3rd downs. More than I can say for McNabb most of the year. He’s got to work on a lot of things but the talent is there. He just needs more experience.
by PURPpplEATER on Oct 17, 2011 10:21 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
QB Future Strategy
This would be my plan on how to approach our QB future:
Announce for the next 2 games, that McNabb will start the first half, and Ponder the second half regardless of the situation because winning now is no longer the priority, the future is. Each QB will take half the first team practice snaps. This will allow Ponder a slightly easier break-in with less pounding which will lead to an easier adjustment.
Then during the bye week, Ponder will begin taking all the practice snaps on his way to starting his first game against GB on MNF.
Just because this has never been done before doesn’t mean it wont work. A more gradual break-in like this with less pressure on the rookie leading to his first start is creative and less traumatic then just throwing him to the wolves all at once. This will allow his mind time to adjust and give him a definite time-line to prepare mentally and physically.
What do we have to lose?
Not that it's a bad idea but hear me out..
Wouldn’t it be easier just to have Ponder play the whole game? When he only plays one half each time, then he is losing another half of playing time where he could be gaining game-time experience. That’s time where he could be getting his timing with receivers down, learning how to and adjusting to defensive formations, and especially getting a feel for the speed of the game. The only way he’ll get more comfortable is with more exposure to everything. I understand that playing him only 1 half would reduce some of the bumps and bruises but he’d still be playing the exact same team and his chances of getting killed would be the same..especially if McNabb leads us to be behind by a lot. Then the defense would be keying in that we need to pass a lot and would rush him more than if they were respecting the running game. Just let the kid play. There’s no positive to McNabb still being on the field..he doesn’t help us win and he’s taking snaps from Ponder.
by PURPpplEATER on Oct 17, 2011 10:08 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
If we're looking to the Future
Then let our future play. Ponder only taking half the snaps will actually slow him down and make his transition tougher. Now if you were talking about maybe doing this plan with Ponder and Joe Webb, then I’d be more apt to think about it. They both clearly have talent and need reps. The blazer package 2 plays everygame isn’t cutting it. Someday maybe it will be effective, but Webb needs more reps as well as Ponder. McNabb needs nothing but a can of chunky and a warm spot on the bench. If he really wants to help, he can help our young talent learn the playbook and teach them reads.
by PURPpplEATER on Oct 17, 2011 10:15 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I was thinking something like this
I’m not sure I’d announce it tho, I would make teams prep for McNabb while preparing and increasing Ponder’s reps both weeks, if the game warrants it put Ponder in for 2nd half, which will most likely be the case, this way teams don’t prep for him and there will be zero pressure, then after the bye he takes over as the starter for the rest of the year.
Plenty to Ponder...
Ah-hahahahaha. Yes, I went there. Like heaving a cinder block into a mud puddle. Laff ryat!
Let’s get one thing straight: This season is toast. In fact, it’s charcoal toast buttered with axle grease. The Vikings today look like a team that may win two more games all season. They may beat Carolina, and they may beat Denver. Or not. Any other victories this year will count as major upsets.
Amid the inevitable upcoming poundings, Frazier has an opportunity to dabble in some useful experiments. One of them is to find out if Christian Ponder can play reasonably well. For a rookie. From what we’ve seen of other rookies in his class, Ponder should do at least as well as Dalton or Gabbert, both of whom have had many more reps with the first team offense.
Ponder clearly has the quick feet that Donovan McNabb used to have. Remember how McNabb got chased down by a defensive lineman? Ponder got away every time in situations where McNabb got sacked. Ponder also has better accuracy than McNabb ever had. Ponder is a precision passer, a bit like Drew Brees. Give him two weeks of reps with his receivers, and he will hit most of them in stride, unlike McNabb, who puts balls behind guys or in the dirt.
The results of playing Ponder will have an immediate effect on the offense. Right now, everything happens within ten yards of the line of scrimmage, because McNabb can’t break contain and can’t move well enough to create passing lanes. Because of McNabb’s immobility, the Bears bunched up 8 or 9 guys in the middle, plugging AP’s running lanes. As soon as Ponder came in, the field expanded, because he was breaking contain, creating passing lanes, then penetrating into the defensive secondary with some well-aimed passes. Suddenly, it looked like our wide receivers actually existed.
With a couple weeks of reps, the Vikings with Ponder may start to develop what looks like a healthy NFL offense. It all hinges on playing a QB that can elude the rush, create passing lanes, then hit his targets. Donovan McNabb used to be able to do that, but his legs are gone. One of the TV announcers said, “Look, McNabb can still run,” just before a lineman brought him down from behind. Sure, McNabb can still run, but not fast enough to escape a 280 lb defensive lineman. Today, the Vikings have one QB that can break contain, find a passing lane and hit receivers in stride. That’s Christian Ponder. Joe Webb is fast enough, but not very accurate. McNabb is too slow and his accuracy is gone.
If as fans we have to eat a loaf of burnt toast buttered with axle grease, at least we should wash it down with something healthy. With the offensive line already decimated, slow old Donovan McNabb will simply get sacked a bunch more times as the offense goes nowhere. Frazier might as well play Ponder now, to find out if the kid can get the offense going while scrambling for his life. And get Webb in there as a wide receiver. Put more physical talent on the field.
I know I'm gonna get eaten up on this but...
Ponder really reminded me of A-rod, I thought Ponder’s arm looked strong and his passes had some zip, which may be partly to do with his quick release and tight spirals, which are both things I’d take regardless, he obviously has some wheels like a-rod too. Ponder is definitely intelligent so I think he’ll develop into a smart player, based on his athleticism he honestly reminded me of A-rod, we shall see if he develops into anything close, i could certainly live with that! Plus they both got that Cali hair look goin on…
took me a while to realize you were talking about Rodgers...
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
Ponder needs
some play time as others have mentioned to see what we have in him and if he can learn and grow…lets not forget we lost Edwards and Rice so we may be looking at 2 extra nice picks…maybe 4th rounders for them…have heard some say 3rd but imo thats to high.
And with the kind of finish we are expecting they will all be high draft picks… Draft Oline yes but it is time to start and look at guys like Love at LT maybe kick CJ inside to guard and put AH in a backup roll… give some of these guys a look so we can see what we do need..maybe Fusco at Center. Which we may get after Sullys head knock.
IMO the Draft should be Oline and MLB,DB..and give some of the young guys on the D side some play time as well. IMO EJ and Erin need to be gone as well as yes Ced and S T Johnson and the Faster….we have to have a good LB’s for Cover 2 and we have 1 in Chad…we have to have good Safety play we have none…as for Whinny try a trade otherwise cut he is only a slot guy now.
I would also try to move Shank at this point. and Hutch…we need to get younger and cheaper at this point.
I know we need WR but I think we can cut BB and find a FA there to go with the Chi Guy and Jenkins as they both look like maybe good #2’s.
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