Upon further review, my thoughts on the Vikings-Bears fiasco
Sunday night’s game between the Vikings and Bears was tough to watch. In my opinion, this was the first game all season in which the Vikings looked like an absolutely horrible football team from start to finish. There weren’t just a few plays and a few players that let the team down on Sunday night. All phases of the Vikings game looked horrible. It was a complete and total team meltdown.
Now before I get too far into the misery of Sunday’s game and our 1-5 record, let me remind you that run of the mill fans like you and me don’t really have it that bad. By comparison, there are other people out there who have it much worse. For example, here’s a picture of two women working the toughest job in Minnesota right now.
Yup, that’s right. These poor women not only have to watch the Vikings, but they also have to smile and look happy while they do it. The cynic in me suspects that this year either the Vikings recruited cheerleaders who don’t understand the rules of football, or that the Wilfs added Prosac to the 2011 cheerleader health plan. What else could explain these ladies unfailing cheeriness in the face of such misery?
And if miniskirts and pom poms aren’t your thing, here’s a picture of a different sort for you. I say, "Whatever floats your boat."
via cdn.everyjoe.com
Alright, here’s fair warning. That’s about all the warmth and glow you’re going to get in this post. We’re a team in crisis and no amount of matching purple tank tops and miniskirts or sticker-covered Stanford helmets are going to change the reality that this Vikings team is B-A-D.
In past weeks there were parts of each game in which a fan in a semi-delusional state could use to hang his or her hat on. Unfortunately, this past week things got ugly quickly and didn’t let up. Yes, we were playing on Vikings kryptonite on Sunday (i.e. natural grass). And yes, we were playing in front of a hostile crowd. And of course, I haven’t forgotten that the game-time temperate was at least 20 degrees chillier than the normal conditions in the climate controlled Metrodome. However none of that should have mattered. We were playing a division rival who had only two wins. They had a notoriously weak offensive line that was partly responsible for the fact that their quarterback no longer has a chin. Seriously people, even their secondary was thought to be worse than ours.
So where does that leave us now? Candidly, we’re in a tough spot. We stink, but at the moment, we aren’t stinky enough. There are other teams out there who remain winless, and even the Cardinals are ahead of us in the draft sweepstakes. It seems a long time ago when I seriously thought that this team would go 6-10 on the season. Boy was I wrong. At this point, I could see us being a 3 win team… and even that feels like it is just picking a number out of the air. I want to say that it’s obvious that we’re better than the Henne-less Dolphins, Manning-less Colts and Bradford-less Rams. However, the truth is that on Sunday we looked really, really bad. We could have and likely would have lost to any team in the league on Sunday.
So with all of that out of the way, here goes my take on where the Vikings stand today and my observations coming out of Sunday’s game.
Coaching Staff:
Candidly, I’m not a fan of Leslie Frazier as a head coach. Maybe he’ll grow into the role of head coach, but at this point he seems overmatched by the position of head coach and is learning on the Vikings’ nickel. I’ve mentioned previously that I’ve been disappointed by his game management skills as well as his unwillingness or inability to make difficult personnel choices (and by “difficult” I mean easy personnel calls that require having a tough conversation with a veteran player). On Sunday, Frazier’s decision to take a time out on the heels of a 2 minute commercial time out was mind blowing for me. Frazier needed the extra time in order to backtrack on his decision to attempt a field goal. As I saw the decision unfold, I had flashbacks of Frazier changing his mind about kicking a field goal during the Bucs game. I find myself surprisingly unsettled by Frazier’s indecisiveness. The waffling is obvious in situations like the aforementioned field goal fiascos, but I am now wondering if this trait isn’t also manifesting itself in Frazier’s personnel decisions. I just can’t come up with a good reason for why Frazier refuses to sit unproductive veteran players? Surely he can see the poor performance and lack of production that we all see, but somehow he just seems unable to pull the trigger on change.
I continue to like Bill Musgrave, but I am questioning a few things in his approach. On the positive side of the ledger, Musgrave once again had some really cool plays and formations. I particularly enjoyed seeing the Bears call a time out on the second play of the game when the Vikings started with a 3 TE formation on the right of the line and then put Kleinsasser and Shiancoe in motion to the left side of the line. After the Bears time out, it was fun to see Musgrave keep the same 3 TEs on the field. He started with Kleinsasser and Shiancoe on the left of the line and then put them in motion. They then returned to the right of the line next to Rudolph – the set up that the Vikings had started with on the preceding play. Unfortunately, despite all the moving around, the Bears had the last laugh when they stopped Peterson for a two yard gain on the play (in large part because Kyle Rudolph once again struggled with his blocking assignment).
However, as much as I like Musgrave’s creative play calling, I think Musgrave needs to throw the Blazer (Webb) package out of his play book. To the best of my recollection, the Blazer package hasn’t worked all season. In fact, it has mostly served to saddle McNabb with 3rd and long situations. I tend to think that young QBs (and even old veterans) do well when they have a rhythm going. The Blazer package disrupts that rhythm for little apparent benefit.
I also think the draw play from the Minnesota 40 yard line with only 6 seconds left on the clock in the 1st half was silly. The Vikings were down 26-3 at that point, and the clock was not their friend. What’s wrong with a Hail Mary to finish out the half? So what if the worst case scenario plays out, and the Bears intercept it and run it back for a touchdown. There’s hardly any difference between being down 33-3 versus 26-3 at the half. Simply packing it in at the end of the half was very disappointing to me.
Pagac’s defense got carved up on Sunday. It looked awful. His schemes didn’t work that well, and his players didn’t perform. I might have been inclined to give Pagac a pass on his players’ on-field performance but for the fact that once again he put Tyrell Johnson into the game BEFORE Sanford was injured. And once again, Tyrell Johnson dropped an interception opportunity. I’m beyond frustrated with this issue and will blame anyone associated with Johnson seeing playing time including Frazier, Pagac and the equipment manager who should have thrown Johnson’s helmet into the stands before the game started.
Offense:
The first two offensive series of the game set the tone as receivers dropped balls that ended drives. Shiancoe dropped a ball that was thrown high and behind him. However, it was a catchable ball. On the next drive, Bernard Berrian dropped a ball that would have bounced off his jersey numbers if it hadn’t hit his hands of stone first. I don’t know what had me more upset: the fact that Berrian was even on the field, the fact that Berrian’s drop ended the drive, or the fact that Berrian was smiling after his drop.
McNabb struggled a bit early in the game, but then played pretty well. He ended up going 19 for 24 for 177 yards. The five incompletions included three drops by receivers. Unfortunately the O-line mostly played poorly, and Peterson was incredibly ineffective in the backfield. All in all, the Vikings have been incredibly consistent in their inconsistency. As a case in point, Bernard Berrian actually showed up and after getting the obligatory first drop out of the way managed to catch five passes. As a result of this season high performance, Berrian has now increased his catches per game average to OVER one catch per game (1.17 to be specific).
But let’s get back to McNabb for a moment. McNabb was inaccurate at times and had one really boneheaded play in which he was pushed down for a sack by Peppers rather than throwing the ball away. However, he had a pretty good game as the stats would support. Once again, he did enough to remain the starter if Frazier is so inclined. The truth is that I was still happy to see McNabb pulled from the game, but I don’t think Frazier had any great epiphany when making that decision. I think McNabb was pulled from the game simply because the game was unwinnable, and because McNabb had just been sacked four times in seven plays. Pretty soon afterwards Camarillo was playing wide receiver and Peterson was replaced by Gerhart. As much as I want to think that Frazier came to his senses and decided to give Ponder (and hopefully Webb too) some experience, I basically think that Frazier pulled McNabb and others from the game to save them from getting injured in an unwinnable game. That’s what I think anyway. While Ponder wasn’t great by any stretch of the imagination, he did just fine for a rookie. As a result, I can’t think of one good reason why Ponder shouldn’t start over McNabb against Green Bay. Oh wait a minute! Here’s one: Webb. (kidding of course… sort of).
The Offensive Line (or What was Left of It):
The offensive line looked awful on Sunday. In fact, I think they looked worse on Sunday than they did against the Lions D-line. Charlie Johnson was beaten like a drum by Julius Peppers throughout the game. Peppers speed made McKinnie look awful two years ago. It was Charlie Johnson’s turn yesterday. In the early part of the second half, Peppers made Johnson look like he was playing in sand. Sunday was an off day for Hutchinson too. Hutchinson had five bad misses in the second half which also included a holding call with 13:37 remaining in the 4th quarter. I think Herrera played okay yesterday, but I think it’s unlikely that the Vikings will resign him at the end of the season. With that in mind, after yesterday’s game, I would go into the offseason with a view to replacing all of the starters on the entire offensive line. Charlie Johnson might turn out to be a good guard or right tackle, but he looked awful on Sunday at left tackle. I think the Vikings need answers and improvements across the rest of the line. And of course, if we’re talking about regulars who struggle with blocking, I should probably mention that Rudolph again struggled with his blocking assignments.
One interesting aspect in an otherwise dismal evening of football was getting to see Joe Berger and Patrick Brown play significant minutes in place of John Sullivan and Phil Loadholt.
Joe Berger came in and replaced Sullivan at center after Sully was hit in the side of the helmet by a stumbling Lance Briggs on the third play of the second half. On the whole Berger played well but was by no means perfect. He is definitely stronger than Sullivan and handles one-on-one blocking well. He is also tougher than Sullivan. I really enjoyed seeing him pancake one of his blocking assignments into the turf after the defender managed to get around Berger. However, Berger sometimes didn’t look around the line as much as I would have expected. On one play, he exclusively focused on Hutchinson who was engaged with his guy and missed the fact he was needed by Herrera. He also had a bit of difficulty when the Bears threatened to rush linebackers up the middle on a blitz. One time Urlacher came to the line and appeared ready to blitz but pulled away into coverage as the ball was snapped. Berger swiped at Urlacher but missed a DT who ran between him and Herrera. On the next play, both Herrera and Berger missed a blitzing Briggs. It occurs to me that some of these struggles might be the result of a lack of familiarity between Herrera, Berger and Hutchinson. On 30 plays, I saw six plays in which Berger got caught in a difficult position either of his own making or as a result of a potential mistake by Herrera or Hutchinson. Berger also had one poor shotgun snap to Ponder. However, there is no doubt in my mind that Berger outplayed Sullivan and should be the starter going forward.
Patrick Brown started the second half at right tackle in place of Loadholt after Loadholt was put on the bench due to a knee issue. I’d been hoping to see someone else get some snaps at right tackle in place of Loadholt. I didn’t have Brown in mind when I had dreams of seeing Loadholt replaced, but I figured anyone was worth a try. Well, I hate to say it, but if Brown is the best back up right tackle we’ve got on the bench, then Loadholt’s probably going to play out the rest of the season. It seemed to me that during the first 14 plays of the second half, Brown really struggled. He was badly beaten on three of those 14 plays and ended up blocking the wrong guy on one play. He had a couple of good pass defense blocks, but in general, he looked out of place. However on the final 19 offensive plays of the game, Brown improved and looked more comfortable. He had one play on which he was called for a holding, and he was definitely beat on the play. However it looked to me as if he pushed his guy down and then drove him into the ground. I didn’t really see what the ref saw. Regardless, Brown seemed to settle down and play okay. That said, I do think Loadholt’s position at right tackle is secure for now.
“The Other Key Cogs on Offense”
Peterson: Peterson had a poor outing yesterday. He had 12 carries for 39 yards. His carries were for the following yards: 1, 2, 5, 0, 4, 2, 3, -1, 8, 8, 4 and 3. In other words, 42% of his carries were for 2 yards or less (w/ 40% of those being for 0 or negative yardage). 33% of his carries were for 3-4 yards. The remaining 25% of his carries were for 5-10 yards. Peterson didn’t have any carries for over 10 yards. The depressing numbers for me are Peterson’s continued failure to lower his percentage of short and negative yardage plays. This has been Peterson’s MO all season, and honestly, pretty much his entire career. Furthermore, Peterson’s blocking regressed again. The safety on McNabb in the first quarter occurred as a result of Sullivan completely whiffing on his block and Peterson being ineffectual on his block of the same defender as well. For all the talk about Peterson being awesome, I’ve come to think that Peterson is part of the Vikings problem. Here’s why: 1) He blocks poorly and struggles to catch balls on the run which makes it difficult to use him as a 3rd down back even though he has stayed in on 3rd downs through a good portion of the season thus far; 2) He has a high percentage of no gain and very short yardage gains (in part because his ability to spot the holes that open up is not great) which puts the offense in difficult down and distance situations; and 3) The fan base and media are so impressed with his combination of speed and power, that it puts a lot of pressure on the coaching staff to use him even when he’s not the ideal answer to a particular situation.
There was a figure used on the Sunday broadcast that I thought was interesting. Donovan McNabb has had the following passing stats through the first 5 games of the season:
On 1st down: Comp% = 74.4%; Yards/pass = 9.3; Passer Rating 108.6
On 2nd down: Comp% = 55.6%; Yards/pass = 6.1; Passer Rating 73.9
On 3rd down: Comp% = 39.0%; Yards/pass = 3.6; Passer Rating 55.8
I haven’t gone back to re-watch each game, but my recollection is that the Vikings use Adrian Peterson on a lot of 1st down plays. If the run goes well, they often use him on second down too. Unfortunately, with Peterson’s high proportion of negative and short yardage runs, he puts the Vikings into obvious passing situations. This allows the opposing defense to pin their ears back and pass rush which challenges our already weak O-line. That’s one of the reasons that I think the Vikings are struggling. Another reason, which I’m sure is entirely coincidental, is that more often than not when a Vikings receiver drops a ball it’s on 3rd down. The first two series of Sunday’s game followed that pattern with the drops by Shiancoe and Berrian.
Anyway, I’ve said this before, but I fear that Peterson’s big payday is going to be an albatross around the neck of the Vikings for years to come. I really do question the wisdom of signing a running back to that sort of deal, particularly when the Vikings could have had him for the rest of this season and put the franchise tag on him for next season (note: the announcers on Sunday Night’s game suggested that franchising Forte in 2012 would cost the Bears $8M and change). Before or during his franchise year, the Vikings could have traded Peterson or just let him play out his contract and know that he’d go find his bigger, better deal somewhere else. The Vikings and Peterson could have parted company knowing that the Vikings had had his best years.
Unfortunately, I believe that the decision to hand Peterson a new and huge contract was a business decision rather than a football decision. Peterson is very popular, very exciting to watch and sells a lot of jerseys. And I fully admit that I like having him on the team. However, I wouldn’t have paid him $13M - $14M/year. Franchising Peterson next year would have saved the Vikings about $6M next year which could have gone a long way to securing a much needed upgrade on the offensive line. In my opinion, that O-line upgrade would have done more to improve the running game than signing a phenomenally athletic, but less-than-complete running back.
Now excuse me for a moment while I step into my flame suit. (pause) Okay. Feel free to flame away now.
“The Number One Back Up”
Perhaps the biggest bright spot in all of this disappointment is that Christian Ponder saw his first action on Sunday. He played a little over a quarter of football and went 9 for 17 for 99 yards. Those stats aren’t all that impressive, but I liked what I saw out of Ponder for the most part. He was very mobile in and outside of the pocket. He was composed enough to make good, accurate, short and mid range throws. Unfortunately, he was wildly inaccurate on the 20+ yard attempts of which I counted three. He also essentially looked for his primary receiver and very rarely managed to look for his second receiving option. Still, for a rookie, I thought he was pretty decent and showed flashes of being very good.
My observation about Ponder is that he has improved somewhat from the pre-season but still has some of the same issues to continue to work on. In the pre-season, Ponder was very inaccurate on his deep throws. He also seemed to throw to his primary target even when tightly covered rather than looking for his second and even third options. And of course, like most athletic rookies, he seemed to run when things got slightly uncomfortable in the pocket. Ponder also had a habit of ending his scrambles with head first dives. All of these things were apparent during Ponder’s appearance on Sunday.
The biggest improvement I saw in Ponder was that he seemed to calm down in the pocket after the first 4 or so plays. He still showed that he had great mobility in and outside of the pocket, but he was more judicious in his decisions to scramble as he settled into the game. Importantly, his in-pocket passing accuracy has improved a great deal since the pre-season. Still I counted four wildly inaccurate throws out of 19 attempts. He also missed an opportunity to make a completion to Asomashodu when he threw a ball high and wide of the receiver. On the other hand, Ponder also had some really great throws. His completions to receivers running slant routes was particularly accurate and effective. On balance, despite Ponder having an O-line that was struggling, he had a good outing for a rookie QB.
While I’m still dressed up in my flame suit, I can’t resist adding that I think Ponder’s outing on Sunday was a lot like Joe Webb’s play last season. Webb was athletic, highly accurate at times, not as accurate at other times and was elusive and difficult to tackle when defensive linemen broke through the line. However, I would say that Webb seemed to be more accurate on the deep throws than Ponder has been. It’s way too early to judge either player, but I will say that at this stage of both players’ development I’m not yet convinced that Ponder is the better QB option than Webb. Regardless, I like what I saw from Ponder on Sunday and hope to see lots more of both of them through the remainder of the season.
Defense:
I mentioned last week that I thought Jared Allen has become less of the extraordinarily versatile defender that he used to be. Last year, Allen sold out on the run in order to improve his poor pass rush performance in the first half of the 2010 season. This year, Allen is again being exploited on the run, and last night was particularly noticeable. If one looks at the Bears running stats from the game, you’ll see that the right side of the defensive line performed very poorly against the run. Here are the yards for runs to the following positions on the offensive side of the line. (Please don’t get confused as I jump back and forth between talking about the offensive left side of the ball and the defensive right side of the ball):
Offensive Left End: 3, 10, 11, 0, -2 (avg. 4.4 yards/rush; remove the last meaningless play of the game and avg. is 6 yards/rush)
Left Tackle: 5, 16, 3 (avg. 8.0 yards/rush)
Left Guard: 21, 3, 5, 2, 14 (avg. 9.0 yards/rush)
Right Guard: -2, 5, 5, 9, 2, -1, 1 (avg. 3.8 yards/rush)
Right Tackle: 3, 1, -2, 0, 4 (avg. 1.2 yards/rush)
Right End: -5, 7, 1 (avg. 1.0 yards/rush)
Basically, the left side of the defensive line held up very well against the run, and the right side of the line was beaten to a pulp. And it wasn’t just Allen who struggled against the run. Kevin Williams had problems too. It could be his foot, or it could be his age, but Kevin Williams did not have a particularly good game. In fact, it may have been a couple of years since Williams last had a difference maker kind of performance. The Bears 3rd series had Kevin Williams playing on the right side of the defensive line, and he was stonewalled on two consecutive plays in one-on-one action with the Bears’ center. The first was a 21 yard run by Matt Forte, and the next play was a 3 yard run through a huge hole in the line left by Williams. That play was a touchdown. Williams appears to be compensating for his diminished physical skills by guessing and taking chances more as was exhibited on the 3 yard run in which he left his gap wide open for Marian Barber to exploit.
In the secondary, Griffin was beaten badly once again for a touchdown. In fact, Griffin seemed unable to keep up with Hester through a good portion of the game. By about the second quarter, I began wishing that the Vikings would put Sherels on the field opposite Hester thinking that Sherels’ speed and coverage skills would be a good match for Hester. Not surprisingly, that didn’t happen.
Special Teams:
Special Teams was awful last night. Kluwe was uncharacteristically inconsistent. He shanked an 18 yard punt in the second quarter. He also kicked to Hester in the 3rd quarter. I felt lucky when Hester’s return only ended up being 27 yards given the fact that less than two minutes earlier Hester had taken a Longwell kickoff 98 yards for a TD. Longwell had a rough game on Sunday as well. In addition to the Hester return, Longwell missed a 37 yard field goal attempt. As mentioned, the coverage teams were regularly beaten and beaten badly by Hester and company. And Marcus Sherels once again made a mental error by calling for a fair catch on the 5 yard line. Special teams have been the difference maker throughout the season. When they do well, typically in the first half, the Vikings do well. However, when they do poorly, typically in the second half, the Vikings keel over and die.
“A Summary of Futility in 2011”
I think the following succession of plays exemplify the futility of the Vikings this season. The plays involved bad coaching, penalties and bad execution:
1. With 2:16 left in the 2nd quarter, McNabb had been rolling. He’d just had 5 of 5 completions on this series interspersed with a Peterson 8 yard run and a Gerhart 3 yard run. And once again, Musgrave called in the “trick play” unit (aka the Webb Blazer package). Webb was in the shotgun and took the ball on a designed run around the right end for a one yard gain. The Vikings actually got lucky on the play. Webb committed a facemask penalty while trying to stiff arm a defender. It was the second time this season that he has done that. The first time he was flagged for a 15 yard penalty. This time the referee missed the call.
2. After a 2 minute commercial time out, Frazier called a time out to take his field goal team off of the field. Collinsworth suggested that Frazier might have called the time out because he was considering a fake field goal and decided that he didn’t like the Bears defensive alignment. That’s a charitable guess at a possible reason for the time out. However, I don’t buy it. The Bears defensive alignment at that particular time was no different that the alignment on the earlier field goal by Longwell nor any different than the subsequent attempt. I personally don’t think there was anything that the Bears did that made Frazier go a different direction.
3. After bringing McNabb and the rest of the offense back onto the field, Michael Jenkins committed a false start. The ball is placed five yards back.
4. Longwell and the rest of the field goal unit then came out onto the field and proceeded to miss a 37 yard field goal.
“A Few Random Observations”
It looked to me like Asomashodu is the new favorite receiver when the Vikings go with a 3 TE set. In the 3 TE set with 1 receiver, Asomashodu was repeatedly the guy on the field.
Despite the intro video by the Sunday Night Football crowd, Berrian was not a starter on Sunday. He didn’t get onto the field until midway through the Vikings 2nd series. He then promptly ended the drive with a perfectly executed drop.
Has anyone else noticed the fact that whenever Culter gets hit, he ends up with his chin strap up around his mouth? It must happen 20 times a game. Seriously, I don’t think I’ve ever seen another quarterback wear his chinstrap up around his mouth quite as much as Culter does. Do you think it has something to do with the fact that Culter doesn’t have a chin?
“The End”
So that’s it for this week. And actually this is going to be my last “Upon Further Review” post. Thanks for reading these posts and for all the great comments and debate. Thanks also for the very kind words. They were very much appreciated.
Peace. Out.
This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.
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Thats a shame
I enjoyed your thorough analysis, I actually took the paper bag off of my head to read them
I agree about Peterson, I feel that we are wasting a lot of snaps on Peterson on poorly called plays. It seems like they throw him in a few times just so he can keep up his fantasy stats or to keep fans happy. Gerhart, while inexperienced, could be a more consistent answer if he could possibly get more than 3 snaps.
Thanks for the nice comment.
I thought about the paper bag myself, but it struck me as too much effort. Instead I just stay in bed feeling depressed about the team’s lack of progress.
Maybe with the switch to Ponder Frazier will start to make some other personnel moves and get some of the young guys some playing time. In all honesty, I think that might be the only way I start to enjoy watching a one-win team. Frazier might not be thinking about 2012, but I am.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
thanks kcskol, it's good to have quality articles going up like this each week.
Has anyone else noticed the fact that whenever Culter gets hit, he ends up with his chin strap up around his mouth? It must happen 20 times a game.
that’s because cutler doesn’t actually have a chin.

warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
This is the look I had in mind
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"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
With the absence of a chin, sometimes you just have to improvise.

"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Outstanding piece as usual kc
A lot to absorb here, but you mention about not being enthralled with Frazier so far. Me either. Harbaugh came off as bit of a douche the other day, but he was excited. He was pumped. I like to see this out of a coach. Like that time Cowher almost came off the sidelines to smoke that dude. Our team lacks attitude seemingly. Wish we could get some guys with some fire. Fire, positivity, and some stones, can (not completely but in small ways) make up for a lack of talent here and there at least. I hope we kick the Packers ass.
"Show me a hero, and I will write you a tragedy." - F. Scott Fitzgerald
The funny thing is that I like the Tony Dungy demeanor...
…and I think Frazier has that. There’s something about the willingness to stay calm and grounded which I appreciate in others. I really want to like Frazier as a head coach. Unfortunately, for the reasons I gave in the post, he’s lost me. Maybe as he improves with experience, he’ll win me back. However I think his waffling is just ingrained. As is his inability to make a tough call on on-field personnel. That said, he did make a tough move in the pre-season with McKinnie. Maybe he felt lied to and taken by McKinnie saying he’d show up in great shape. Maybe that’s what it takes to get the boot. However, there are a few other guys who shouldn’t even have made the team let alone see the field IMO. I’m disappointed in Frazier that he hasn’t addressed those issues.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
nice job as usual
I don’t see why you’d stop though.. :D Actually maybe you can keep doing them just get really drunk before hand.
Putting Ponder in isn't the question, it's the answer.
Booze does make the games more bearable...
…but it’s tough on the typing. It also runs the risk of sending me off on a stream of consciousness, cuss filled, rant. While that might be quite satisfying in the moment, it could be cause later regret. As they might say, when it’s on the Internet it’s out there forever.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Very nice write up
We agree on several things, including your analysis of the oline play, the crappy special teams and the disappointment in seeing Tyrell Johnson on the field.
There are a few things that I disagree with:
1. The draw play with 6 seconds left. I have never been a fan of desperation plays when the score is out of hand. Obviously if it were the end of the game and the Vikes were down by 4, then by all means throw the hail mary. But with 6 seconds before the half and down 23 points, there is no need for such a call. Run out the clock and head to the locker room.
2. The Peppers push. McNabb was running for his life, but he had his eyes down field. He was trying to make a play. I honestly don’t know if he knew Peppers was within reach. I think he believed that with Pepper’s gimpy knee, he had more time.
3. Your defensive line analysis. If a stunt is called and they run a play into the gap you are vacating, it’s not your fault, e.g. the TD run by Barber. On that play the Vikings used a stunt to get pressure on the QB. Pagac rolled the dice and lost. He assumed the bears would throw the ball in that situation. The stunting Dlinemen created a huge gap right where the play was designed to be run. Point is, if we knew every call on every play, then we could make a fair and honest assessment. But we dont. There are times that the Vikings call for a zone blitz which drops Jared Allen into coverage. If he doesn’t get a sack on those plays he isn’t to blame because he was doing his job by dropping into coverage. If the call is for him to pin his ears back from that wide 9 technique then all the OT has to do is influence him up field and push him out.
4. Your analysis of Peterson. He is the best running back in football playing behind the worst offensive line. Could he block a little better? Sure. But as far as his receiving goes, I would blame that on the design of his routes. He almost always runs a swing to the side line. I would like a little more creativity for him. How about line up with Percy in the backfield and AP in the slot or split out wide? Create some mismatches for these guys.
"God always comes first, then grades, (and lastly) football." 11-year old phenom Demias Jimerson on his reaction to being told that he cannot score more than 2 TD's per game in his Arkansas Pee-Wee football league.
Thanks.
I can understand the difference of opinion on the points you highlighted. I’m sympathetic to McNabb on the point you raise in #2. He’s been really impressive in using those “eyes in the back of his head” throughout the season. This time they didn’t work.
On point #1, I’d still contend that being down 23 points at half requires using every available second and opportunity to get points on the board. As much as 23 points was out of hand, a freak stroke of luck on a hail mary just before the half would have changed the entire complexion of the game going into half time. The chance of success is low, so I can understand the point of view of “why bother.” Still, I was disappointed in the decision, because I saw it as an opportunity to show some urgency.
On point #3, I think your point is a fair one. I know that Chris Collinsworth made the same point. That said, I didn’t see it the same way. Williams penetrated at a slight angle and was pushed to the side by the left tackle. Guion whom I would have assumed would have stunted to his right didn’t make that move at the snap of the ball. It’s possible Guion made a mistake, or a linebacker was supposed to fill Williams’ gap but based on the reaction of other players on the defensive side of the ball, I think it was Williams who made his move and left his gap exposed. You’re right though. We’ll never really know for sure.
On point #4, I disagree with several points. I’ll put aside the “best running back” part and address the other stuff. Peterson needs to be a lot better as a blocker. He seemed to improve at the start of the season in that regard, but over the past couple of games he’s been as bad as he was prior to this season. Also, most of Peterson’s routes and catches this year have been passes over the top of the D-line to a stationary Peterson who’s typically planted 3-4 yards past the line of scrimmage. My guess is that the original plan would have been to get Peterson the ball while he was on the move in order to take advantage of his immense speed and power when running at full speed. However, Zuglad pointed out during the pre-season that Peterson was dropping balls left and right in pre-season practice, and Zuglad thought that this fact would make it difficult for the Vikings to involve Peterson more in the passing game as Musgrave had said would be the plan. Throwing balls over the top to a stationary Peterson with Peterson’s back to the linebackers and secondary doesn’t put Peterson in a position to make yards after the catch, because he’s usually hit as soon as he catches the ball. Unfortunately, when he’s in motion and being led, he drops a lot of balls. I think that’s the challenge that is limiting some of the creativity you would like to see more of. Finally, my main point is that even if he is the best running back in football, I just can’t see paying that kind of money for a running back. I think having a good O-line with an average back trumps having the world’s greatest back and a poor O-line which is my argument for spending $14M on other needs. However, I will grant you that Peterson is a lot of fun to watch, and if the Vikings ever do cut the cord to Peterson (which I don’t think they will do) it will be a sad day.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
I think next years o-line should be
LT Jonathan Martin. LG Hutch. C Fusco/Berger. RG Charlie Johnson. LT Phil Loadholt/Love.
Nice.
I’m still holding out hope (albeit not much) that we’ll have a shot at Luck. If not, I’m with you from the left side all the way through RG. However, I’d like to see something different at RT (admittedly don’t know what to make of Love, so we’ll see).
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
I'm embarrassed to say...
…and not sure I totally know the answer because I haven’t been keeping a log and just get to it when I am able. It varies a bit week to week, but I’m confident that it’s never less that 5 hours, and I wouldn’t be shocked to learn that sometimes its closer to 10 hours. That’s what I think anyway. Add in watching the game live, and it’s well past 10 hours for sure.
And the truth is that it could take a lot longer, because there are so many other things that I end up wanting to comment on. However, the posts are already long enough (and honestly, they are getting a bit repetitive in some of their observations at this point).
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
It good reading. Was just curious about the effort.
It takes me an hour to fulfill the requirement of minimum number of words for a fanpost…So, thanks for doing it.
Don’t worry about repetition. It is not you. I think the team’s performance being repeatedly similar along with Frazier doing the same things over and over again has something to do with it :)
The fanpost format isn't the easiest to figure out and use
For one thing, I’m using a more updated version of Explorer than the Fan Post feature seems to be able to handle. I actually have to hit the “Compatibility View” on my browser in order to “regress” the version for the Daily Norseman fan post. This week it took me 10 minutes to find the “add a picture” feature.
And yes, I agree with your point about the team’s repeated challenges. Still it isn’t much fun to read (let alone write) about the same issues again and again.
I saw that Sullivan was in practice (or at least not listed as having missed practice) yesterday. I sure hope the Vikings start Berger anyway. Ponder and Berger starting would at least break one element of the repetition.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Didn't read but...
Rec’d cause six other people rec’d it. Wanna fight about it?
Jay Cutler, first NFL quarterback to beat a playoff team with a losing record.
Based on your reasons for giving this a rec...
…you must be a guy who follows the Pack. (pun intended)
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Gonna need over here again Cali!
"Show me a hero, and I will write you a tragedy." - F. Scott Fitzgerald
I've had my cryptographers working over time on this one...
…but they can’t figure out what it means. We’re now sending it off to Langley for further analysis.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
I think this was meant as a reply to arodgb...
Cali is a DN member/former football player/strongman-type who abba enlisted for some physical assistance in another thread.
Right!
Cali takes care of all of our light stuff. All the heavy stuff too, for that matter.
"Show me a hero, and I will write you a tragedy." - F. Scott Fitzgerald
Just this morning
he took care of a little loose end we had there in Libya!
"Show me a hero, and I will write you a tragedy." - F. Scott Fitzgerald
Ah...
Well know I have an excuse to get all these cryptographers off of the payroll. I’ll just ask JShore when I can’t figure something out. Thanks for the explanation.
I’ll also plan on re-directing my new cash savings to getting myself some Internet muscle to settle disputes for me.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Awesome again KC...Rec'd!
And I agree with basically everything you said. I think that Frazier will eventually grow into a promising head coach, and I feel like Musgrave’s offense will pick up with Ponder in it (because he did draft Ponder into his offense based off of his skill set, McChunky doesn’t have the right tools/intangibles Ponder does) and that Pagac needs to work on the secondary.
I also really loved what I saw out of Ponder. There’s really no reason not to let him go up against the Packers, because it’ll be a great test to see where he’s at during this point of the season. I thought he did awesome during the bears game; he converted a couple of third downs, was a precise passer and could move around out of the pocket.
Just some brief thoughts again, but this was an awesome write-up.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
SKOL VIKINGS!
Yeah, that's what's so strange about the McNabb situation.
I still don’t think McNabb was bad (I know I’m standing alone on an island on that one), but I wonder if the mechanics issue that Frazier/Musgrave saw was something difficult to address with a veteran like McNabb who probably felt like he’d had plenty of success with his mechanics just the way they were. I expect Ponder will be a lot more open to adjustments that Musgrave thinks are required.
Also as an aside, Ponder is shockingly mobile. I didn’t expect that at all. And in pre-season he was most accurate when he was passing while on the move. I wonder if we’ll see more rollouts which could actually help the offensive line a bit too. I like Musgrave’s creativity on offense and look forward to seeing how that is impacted by Ponder at QB.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Thanks.
I’ll forever remember Landonio as the guy whose “rec” put me over the top and got me a personal best. Thanks.
I really don’t know how Ponder will do long term, but I really like the fact that the Vikings are now set to find out. He won’t be perfect, but as you point out, there’s no downside to playing him and we’ll get to see where he’s at and how he learns from mistakes. I think the season just became exciting for me again.
Only thing is that I wish there was a way to play both Ponder and Webb. I really want to see both guys, because I really liked what I saw from Webb last year. He had his errors but was a lot like Ponder in how to performed.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
You keep track of your rec's?
Man you are kinda spooky.. :D
Putting Ponder in isn't the question, it's the answer.
I don't just track them...
…I gild them in gold leaf, frame them and hang them on the walls of my study like rock stars do with their gold and platinum albums.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
That’s why you’re stopping doing these? Because you have no more room on your walls?
"Let's go our there, and stick our fists through their ribcages, rip our their hearts, eat them, and shit them back out on the field!!" - Blue Mountain State
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Oct 20, 2011 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh there's more room...
…it’s just that my wife has threatened to divorce me if I continue to take down pictures of our kids to get more wall space.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
A loophole...
put pictures of your kids in the articles, that way they are still on the wall… technically.
by Simply_Greatness on Oct 23, 2011 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Another great write-up kc
I know that many of us will miss your work but I think I understand why you may have run out of steam. Aside from the amount of time it obviously takes, the whole endeavor seems to become somewhat pointless as the losses add up. At the current rate, eventually an adequate game summary will warrant little more than a simple “we sucked hard”, followed by a repeat of the previous 4-6 weeks of same player low-lights.
Still, as the season plays out we may begin to see more youth getting playing time. Hopefully you will consider leaving the door open to giving us your take on their efforts if that does develop.
LOL
Dang, I probably could have saved myself several thousands words of text if I’d just gone with “We sucked hard.” That pretty much says it all.
For what it’s worth, I just started writing these posts as detailed observations, because they were the sort of thing I always wanted to see but was rarely able to find. It’s so hard to find deeper analysis of the team, because it takes a long time, and because (personal opinion here) it requires watching the game a different way than simply enjoying the thrill of a live event. My impressions after watching the game live are sometimes quite different than the view I have after studying the game play-by-play, position-by-position, in detail later.
As I said I started to do these write ups because it’s the sort of thing that I wanted to see online somewhere. When the first “Upon Further Review” was well received, I thought I’d keep it going for two or three weeks just for the fun of it, and because I was already studying the games play-by-play to see who was doing what. Writing up my observations took some time, but most of the time was in reviewing the games. However, now I’ll probably be spending less time in the analysis, because I have fewer questions in my own mind about the team and its players. And of course, the writing takes time which is always a precious commodity.
All that said, I really enjoyed writing these posts AND MORE THAN THAT I really enjoyed reading other people’s reactions (good and bad) to what I had to say. I’ll continue to be active on the DN, because frankly, I can’t help myself. And honestly in a season like this, ranting and raving with fellow fans is a lot cheaper than therapy. So even though the form of my posts will move away from these semi-detailed game observations, I’ll still be out there peddling the same crackpot theories and doing my best to tip the “sacred cows” off their feet. After all, that’s one of the things I enjoy most about this particular hobby.
Thanks again for positive feedback.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
KC SKOL Dares to Speak The Truth
For all of his manifest skills, Adrian Peterson IS part of the problem. You can blame the offensive line, the lack of a downfield passing game, or poor playcalling but the fact is that AP continues to get 2 yards or less 40% of the time – putting the team at 3rd and hopeless. Waiting around for him to break one for 40 yards is not an offensive strategy. And then going to wildcard formations with Joe Webb or bringing in Percy Harvin as “surprise” moves designed to get a big play is equally bankrupt. I know that it is sacreligious to suggest that Gerhart be used more when All Day AP is around but I think it is a sensible strategy to provide more diversity out of the backfield, get to some easier third down conversions, give AP a rest so that he can go All Game (he has been weak in the second half all year) and, ultimately, extend his career.
Ultimately is doesn’t matter what AP’s “rep” is. His numbers tell the story. And it is not a pretty one.
So……………I think matters will improve with Ponder. He just brings more unpredictability to the offense – which should help the running game and the screen game to the running backs. But he is going to need some help…………..and 2 yards or less 40% of the time is not going to help. If it wasn’t AP wearing number 28, I think you would see more fans calling for Gerhart to see more action. While he has seen extremely limited action (including almost no garbage time given how the Vikes have played) in his career to date (and even less this year), his career averages are right on top of AP’s since the start of last year – and he does not get stuffed often.
With a title like that...
…I need to hire you as my PR guy! Thanks.
I’m glad you see it the same way. It’s hard not to fall in love with Peterson’s hard charging ways and breakaway speed. However, I have to say that I do want to see more of Gerhart. I like his style of running. It’s less flashy than Peterson’s style, but it’s much more consistent. People might hold the 4th and 1 carry against Detroit against him, but on that play Kyle Rudolph missed his block which forced Gerhart to adjust slightly from an up the middle run to move over to the left side of the line in order to evade Rudolph’s guy. Unfortunately Charlie Johnson (possibly by play design) didn’t block the DE who came from the other side untouched. Both defenders hit Gerhart before the line of scrimmage, and he still almost got the 1st down. Rudolph let the team down at that play, not Gerhart. Gerhart has done very well with what the line has given him. He mostly definitely hasn’t missed opportunities when they’ve been there. The same can not be said of Peterson.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
I'd love to see more Booker to
He is a nice change of pace and seems pretty good catching out of the backfield.
by Simply_Greatness on Oct 23, 2011 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Peterson's struggles
I have to disagree with you here, I think that he is doing poorly this year compared to others because opposing defenses have no one else to worry about. They can run blitz all day and never have to worry about getting burned for a long TD pass. I’m not saying that Peterson hasn’t had his fair share of short runs in previous seasons, but a lot of running backs are similar to this. Barry Sanders is a great example of a guy who could have short gains or loss then have a big run. No matter how bad our QB was in previous years they could usually at least complete a pass of more than 20 yards, needless to say I am hoping Ponder will do well the Vikings are LONG overdue for a good QB they can call their own
I understand what you are saying.
And I think a stronger O-line and QB will help Peterson quite a bit. My point though is that Peterson has danced around the line of scrimmage his entire career. For a guy with his power, I’m really frustrated with the number of times he’s tackled without having any forward momentum. He moves laterally and back onto his heels a lot in order to dodge defenders which results in a lot of tackles in which he falls to his side rather than forward for another 1 or even 2 yards after contact. He also approaches the line of scrimmage so fast (both up to the handoff as well as after it) that he sometimes fails to see the holes in the line where they are forming. If you watch Gerhart, his approach to the hand off is slower than Peterson’s. I think that’s part of why he appears to have better vision and recognition. Gerhart also keeps his momentum moving forward even when he’s making his lateral movements. They aren’t start and stop jukes like Peterson does. They are more like changes in angle of direction a bit to the right or the left while keeping up a head of steam. I think that accounts for a lot of Gerhart’s consistency. There’s no comparison between Peterson and Gerhart when Peterson gets to the second level of the defense. In space he is a fearsome combination of speed and power. However, he doesn’t get ot the second level all that often. Furthermore, Gerhart has shown that he can get the big breakout runs as well and is better at catching the ball out of the backfield.
Anyway, with our team at 1-5, I don’t think there’s much harm in getting Gerhart more touches.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Yeah I can agree that a lot of times Peterson is playing way too fast for the O-Line to keep up with him. I also wish they would try to develop his pass catching and route running skills, he could be very dangerous in open space and as always there is room for improvement on blocking (still hurts to not have Chester Taylor in all three of those regards)
I would love to see more of Toby, it baffles me why they would draft such a highly regarded running back like him then never use him. If nothing else it could keep the defense on its feet, having to prepare for two types of runners that are both good in their own regard. Now get a formation where Gerhart, Peterson and Harvin are on the field and you could have some great mismatches I would bet.
One last thing where do you see Lorenzo Booker fitting in, the coaches said they wanted to use him a lot more and in the Chicago game (at least what I managed to watch of it) I didn’t see him once… if they really want to be a good running team getting all three of these guys touches would be ideal I think
by Grape Drank on Oct 21, 2011 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Gosh. That's a really great question about Booker.
I really like Booker, but I don’t know how the Vikings can get him on the field. He’s solid in kick off returns and as a running back, but he’s not Percy Harvin on kick offs and he’s not Adrian Peterson or even Toby Gerhart as a running back. I think his running back style is more like Peterson’s but without the frightening hostility on each run. He dodges and weaves nicely. If the backfield were just Gerhart and Booker, I think we’d see him as a the proverbial “change of pace” back, and I think he’d do well on carries and out of the backfield passing plays. Unfortunately for Booker, he stands behind Peterson and Gerhart (who are already complimentary backs). I kind of see Booker as odd man out through no fault of his own. He’s obviously getting touches on the kick offs now, but he must have slapped his head in frustration after Harvin lobbied for returns and then took his first retun back for a TD. Poor guy. As I said, I think he’s solid, and I like having him on the team. However, I just don’t see how he gets on the field unless the coaching staff is willing to substantially lighten Peterson’s load (i.e. put him in on fewer plays whether or not he’s touching the ball).
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Booker
Booker seems to be more of a pass catching back that can be allusive in the open field but does not have the power or top end speed to be an every down back. I would like to see him as a third down back more often, however putting Harvin in the back field on third downs could also be an option, but with the lack of WRs on the squad it might make more sense to put Booker in the backfield on third downs. At least this is the way that I imagined things going during the preseason.

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