Back off Front Office! Get on the Coaches!

by Swamp Vike on Oct 3, 2011 12:27 AM CDT

Do I really have to remind Vikings fans that if we go back to 2007 (Spielman's 1st draft) our picks in the 1st round have been:

2007 - Adrian Peterson - Rookie of the Year
2008 - Jared Allen - Traded away 1st pick to get - Future Hall of Famer
2009 - Percy Harvin - Rookie of the Year
2010 - No 1st Round Traded out to second round - Chris Cook and Toby Gerhart (Both looking to be good/solid players)
2011 - Christian Ponder - (Hasn't Played Yet)

You have to trust the front office and scouts track record with the drafts we've had. If it tells you anything, Ponder should be pretty darn good. So what is the problem with this team.....Coaching!

That's right I said coaching. A few basic examples that anyone can see:

Offense:

Adrian Peterson - Underutilized dramatically and they have found no creative ways to get their best playmaker the ball. Screen Pass? Swing Pass? I guess Harvin is the only player that we can create plays for. If they don't realize AD is their bell cow...you can answer that for yourself.
Kyle Rudolph - Get this guy on the field! He catches everything you throw at him. Rudolph and Shiancoe should be on the field much more than they are and they should both be running passing routes to create mismatches against LB's. Good coaches know how to use their weapons. See Patriots with Gronkowski and Hernandez.
Donovan McNabb - He is still playing despite missing wide open throws with regularity and defenses are daring us to throw against them. The fact he is still playing while being so inaccurate AND ineffective with a #1 draft pick ready to go is ridiculous.

Defense:

Know your opponent - Lions only big play weapon is Calvin Johnson. Why...someone tell me why this man is not double covered with a safety that is over the top of him on every snap. Especially with a 20 point lead. Again against KC. Bowe is the only receiving threat that KC has. How we let the best player of the other teams we play get single coverage and beat us shows a lack of proper schematic football. No excuse.
Discipline - Too many penalties. Well coached teams do not beat themselves. This defense and this offense have continually hurt themselves with penalties. A coaches job is to prepare players with great fundamentals to play their schemes so they can play fast. Our players are thinking too much and it shows.
Pressure - Does anyone else realize that it is possible to blitz without playing man coverage in the backend? Apparently our DC doesn't. Converting 1st and 25 against our pass rush. Inexcusable.

I think Frazier has to be held responsible for the OC and DC. That's his job. I see more of his influence on the defense in the Chiefs game Not near as many blitzes. More safe zone, His faith in McNabb is blind and inexcusable. I want a coach that believes in his players but the right ones. Game on the line in KC and 1st and 10 on KC 41. 4 straight throws by McNabb? Inexcusable when you have AD. Sorry guys, I don't see this getting any better. The coaching just isn't good enough and the worst part. They know it, admit it, and still haven't fixed it. Welcome to your 2011 Minnesota Vikings.
So what do we hope for? Zygi, help us out. This is what we need you to do:

Start Christian Ponder Right now
Throw whatever it takes at Bill Cowher to get him to coach this team.

All we can hope for now is that Ponder starts and the Front Office was right on this draft pick as they have been on all their other 1st round picks since 2007. Go Ponder! Bring on Bill Cowher. Vikings back to winning in 2012.

This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.

Tweet Comment 20 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

somewhat difficult, but not too hard

Personnel group 1: Harvin, Jankins, Shiancoe, Rudolph, and Peterson.

Formation alpha: two tight ends

Formation bravo: one tight end, with the other split wide. Harvin in the slot.

Formation charlie: Like Beta, but Harvin at RB, Peterson in the slot

Personnel group 2: Aromashodu, Jenkins, Harvin, Shiancoe, and Peterson

formation delta: Aromashodu at WR 1, Jenkins at WR 2, and Harvin at slot. Shiancoe at TE. Peterson at RB.

formation echo: four wide

Personnel group 3: Jenkins, Harvin, Shiancoe, Kleinsasser, Peterson

formation foxtrot: Kleinsasser at TE

formation golf: Kleinsasser at FB

Now for passing routes, her are some basic ones: go route, curl or comeback, post, skinny post, square in/square out, dig, slant, stop n go, Then there is also “the go forward a little and turn around and wait.” Sometimes that is all that is needed.

Multiply the routes by the receivers and we suddenly have a playbook that is bulking up some.

by medicineball on Oct 3, 2011 6:55 AM CDT reply actions

Ok man I'm sorry

But I don’t agree with you. I don’t think Spielman has done a great job of drafting. First round picks should be good, problem is how many other picks have been? 2nd and 3rd round picks should be solid as well, we should pull line and LB’s from lower picks. Problem is we don’t we have had some pretty crappy non first round picks and it’s further hampered because we trade up pretty much every darn draft From TJ, to Gerhart we are notorious for it. Loadholt is terrible we have nothing to show for Rice or Edwards. We don’t grow our team from the draft because in the past we couldn’t.

I'm like the Dali Lama of kicking ass

by Grime on Oct 3, 2011 10:50 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs

I agree wtih Grime

Making solid first round selections is not that hard. A good GM is measured by his success in the 2nd round and beyond. Ted Thompson is considered to be the best in the world at what he does because his drafts are so deep all the time. During the Thompson era, the Packers have five players who have made the pro bowl- who were drafted in the 3rd round or later. Thompson to this point has only made one mistake, Justin Harrell. That is impressive.

by Timothy Bryce on Oct 3, 2011 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

Do you actually look at our draft history before you comment?

Just look at the last 3 drafts.

2009 – Every player drafted still a part of the team!
1 – Percy Harvin – All Pro
2 – Phil Loadholt – solid right tackle – still young but a starter nonetheless (much better than Ryan Cook who he replaced)
3 – Asher Allen – good corner, 2 picks of Eli Manning when he started last year. Will be good starter
5 – Jasper Brinkley – good player, probably starting if not for injury
7 – Jamarca Stanford – good starting safety – young

2010 – 4 out of 8 picks are solid contributers on our team!
2 – CHris Cook – Starting Nickel Corner
2 – Toby Gerhart – Solid Back up to AD
4 – Everson Griffen – Solid and up and coming DE and nickel rush DT
5 – Chis DeGeare – cut this year though looked solid
5 – Nate Triplett – Cut
6 – Joe Webb – great athlete, good talent that coaches underutilize
7 – Mickey Shuler – cut
7 – Ryan DImperio – cut

2011 – 6 out of 10 are solid additions to our team! Ponder and Rudolph might be great!-
1 – Christian Ponder – back up QB, unproven
2 – Kyle Rudolph – solid TE, should probably be starting over Shiancoe
4 – Christian Ballard – solid DE and nickel DT, promising player so far
5 – Brandon Burton – cut
6 – DeMarcus Love – good OT, probably starter next year on team
6 – Mistral Raymond – good FS, probably starter next year on team
6 – Brandon Fusco – good C prospect on team
6 – Ross Homan – cut, couldn’t beat out Larry Dean (FA signing)
7 – D’Aundre Reed – cut
7 – Stephen Burton – cut

That’s a total of 15 out of 23 draft picks are still an integral part of our team from the last 3 years. That’s a 65% hit rate for draft picks. That’s pretty darn good!! That’s a whole lot more than just getting 1st round talent!!

We didn’t even mention:
Letroy Guion – 5th round in 2008 – solid DT rotation
John Sullivan – 6th Round in 2008 – solid starting Center
Brian Robison – 4th Round in 2007 – Starting DE and looking good.

Wish Donovan could hit 65% of his passes. We’d not be 0-4!

by Swamp Vike on Oct 3, 2011 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

Rec'd

Even if you are a Gator fan : )

All of those players that remain on the team look like they’ll be there a while, minus John Sullivan.

"Let's go our there, and stick our fists through their ribcages, rip our their hearts, eat them, and shit them back out on the field!!" - Blue Mountain State

by Alittlemore_cowbell on Oct 3, 2011 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions

A few ammendments to this list..

Loadholt isn’t solid. At all. He’s a liability in pass blocking. And you can chalk him up for a penalty (usually a false start) at least one per game. I think he’d be much better suited to be a guard than a tackle. He’s just not quick enough on the edge.

Brinkley wouldn’t start, even if he wasn’t injured. He wasn’t starting before he got injured. He’s a capable backup, but that’s about it at this point.

Allen had one good game against the Giants. He hasn’t had many good games since or before. He isn’t a good starter at all. Otherwise he wouldn’t be the dimeback. He’s a back-up for a reason.

I wouldn’t call Sullivan a solid center either. He gets manhandled too often. He’s a smart guy, but he’s one of the weaker, if not weakest, links on the O-line. That’s not solid.

I’ll credit Spielman for the ‘07 draft. That was a good draft. Robison is doing better than I could have hoped. But, really, the fact alot of these recent picks are starting/contributing, and we’re 0-4, it really doesn’t speak well to their quality.

He does well with the first rounders it looks like, but after that its a crapshoot. Which, really, is par for the course with the draft. The lower rounds are supposed to be more difficult to find better players. That said, I haven’t felt too confident with his first selections the past couple drafts. Both Cook and Ponder seemed like big reaches after there was a run on their position.

by REVENGE4KLUWE on Oct 3, 2011 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions

on Sullivan

I don’t agree with your other points, but on Sullivan, first of all he is trying really hard.

Second, let’s look at the Jets. They have been one of the top teams in the NFL. Then they lose their center and boom they suck hard, losing and looking bad.

Sullivan is not our long-term starter at center. He will be invaluable however as our backup center.

He has the smarts and the experience to be a terrific backup center. He can always groom and mentor the new guy if he can handle that, as he probably can.

Next year: OT 1st round, C second round

by medicineball on Oct 3, 2011 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions

this is a good topic to discuss. it addresses the "how did it come to this?' question.

a total of 15 out of 23 draft picks are still an integral part of our team from the last 3 years.

that’s 15 guys on a roster that needs to be overhauled because we are 4-14 since the start of the year last year. i see big holes on this roster and big changes necessary.

thanks for pulling the list of draft choices together. but, there are a few other factors that could round out your analysis and could/should be in the discussion, imo.

1. we should look at is what POSITIONS were drafted for vs. what positions we really had need for. because we have allowed some weak units to go unattended (o-line, d-backs).

2. it’s not just the draft that shapes the roster. there are trades and free agency that are sources for new personnel. that is spielman’s job too. i think we have missed the boat here more than once in the last few years. it is a way to get value and experience.

3. what is the strategy for building a balanced and versatile roster/ what is the strategy for creating healthy roster turn over to replenish the personnel and keep a good mix of youth, experience, star players and role players? this seems to be a huuuuuge problem imo. i don’t see a lot of fore thought and/or smart planning. (plus, is it just me, or does spielman look like a total doofus :).

4. how come the patriots keep winning and they keep replenishing their roster and had like a zillion picks in this year’s draft (with 2 picks each in the first 3 rounds!). that shows savvy, foresight and planning. i think spielman is nowhere near new england’s league.

5. how about the whole salary cap issues? we were screwed this year because the organization (spielman and brez) sold the future for a few contracts to try to “win now” in a long shot. and we are now paying the price. it’s a corner they painted us into.

i know i have only pointed out general issues without the detail…but i’m hoping people can fill in some details. the topic is good, i think it should be expanded a bit to get a clearer picture.

p.s. i’m not a spielman fan. i want him gone right now to send a message to the coaching staff to get their sh!t together and make significant improvements by year’s end….OR ELSE !!!

warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!

by danny lloyd on Oct 4, 2011 12:03 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

coaching...not so good

I agree with the title of this post: get on the coaches! When a decent team such as the Vikings cannot finish the game when up double digits at half time I put the blame squarely on the coaches. Especially the head coach. Plus, choosing to stay with McNabb when its obvious he sucks is another coaching blunder. Perhaps Andy Reid and Shanahan aren’t so dumb after all getting rid of McNabb, they knew he was washed up thats why they dumped him. Mcbad has to know his career is down the toilet by now after the way he has played, I say trade or cut him and send Frazier with him.

by CAvikesfan on Oct 3, 2011 3:02 PM CDT reply actions

In Frazier's defense

he has to pick his poison. Its either McNabb, who’s been in the league for a while and knows how the game works but is inaccurate, or its Ponder, who is still very green and not going to help the team win at this point more than likely.

McNabb, even with his crappy throws, is probably better suited at this point to help us than Ponder would be. From what I saw in Pre-season, Ponder really isn’t going to be much, if any, of a difference. He wasn’t so accurate either, and he struggled against 2nd and 3rd stringers in base defense. Facing a starting defense? It won’t be pretty.

by REVENGE4KLUWE on Oct 3, 2011 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions

Coaches are supposed to put best players on the field

I’m sorry, but Frazier is delusional if he thinks it is not time to make some personnel changes on both sides of the ball. The sad part is that the changes are relatively simple:

1) McNabb holds the clipboard. The reasoning is two-fold: a) find out what Ponder has, b) step up the production and mobility of the offense.

2) Bench Berrian and put Webb in as WR with Jenkins and Harvin. Alternate between Webb and Aroma. I know the naysayers will cry that Webb “is a QB!!!”, but we just drafted a guy to be the QOTF and it wasn’t Webb.

3) Start preparing Loadholt for a move to RG…his footwork is just too slow to handle DE’s speeding of the edge. Look for a line (if Ponder pans out) from left to right: Rookie LT, Hutch, Sully (I guess), Loadholt, and Love.

4) Defensively, move Griffin to FS with Jamarca at SS. Start Winfield and Cook and bring Sherels into the nickle.

by DaBagel on Oct 3, 2011 5:48 PM CDT reply actions

I think Abdullah is a better safety than Sanford

There’s no question about his position as a starter. If anyone should get replaced by Griffin in the back 2, it should be Sanford. Abdullah has been a pleasant surprise and solid contributor to the D. It helps he brings something to the table no one else can; catching ints.

Other than that, it seems like a solid list. I’m not sure Ponder will do much to help the team out over McNabb, but it would be worth seeing at the least.

by REVENGE4KLUWE on Oct 3, 2011 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions

the front office has NOT drafted well.

This years draft is too early to assess but realistically we’ve reached for players when we need not have.

In 2011, we could easily have traded down and gotten Ponder. We reached. Our 6th round linemen have not played yet. And don’t forget we wasted a 3rd round pick on Randy Moss.

In 2010, we move up for Gerhart when there was no need. You don’t draft back up RBs in R2 and you certainly don’t move up for them. James Starks was taken in the 6th.

In 2009, there were better options than Loadholt in R2. He has done nothing to suggest he will be more than mediocre.

Being drafted, young and starting for the Vikings DOES NOT make you good. In many cases, better players have been available later.

What the front office has not done is

1) Adequately prepared for the departure of Favre and then panicked when he retired.

2) Looked at the lines – it was clear McKimmie was a problem, yet we took a RB rather than Charles Brown or Bruce Campbell in 2010

3) Where was big Pat’s replacement?

4) What about linebacker depth especially with injury concerns over Henderson and Brinkley.

The Packers and Giants usually drafted well as they focus on best player available and draft for future needs i.e. players moving on or retiring.

Spielman routinely reaches, moves up when he doesn’t need to, or goes for luxury players forgetting the core needs, which he then doesn’t adequately fill in free agency.

The reason we are where we are is on the shoulders of the Front Office

by Voyageur on Oct 3, 2011 5:55 PM CDT reply actions

I have to defend the Loadholt selection

Yes, there may have been better players than him in hindsight, but at the time we really did need somebody to replace Ryan Cook as starter. Loadholt was supposed to be this awesome runblocker, which fit in perfect with our scheme and Adrian Peterson. At the time, it wasn’t a bad pick. Loadholt had a good rookie season, but then he stepped back and hasn’t returned to that first-year form.

by REVENGE4KLUWE on Oct 3, 2011 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions

good point. a draft pick might be the right choice at the time, but not pan out as planned.

kind of like our 3rd round picks of late ;).

warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!

by danny lloyd on Oct 4, 2011 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions

We could not have traded down and taken Ponder.

We could have done that and taken Andy Dalton, but Washington was ready to pull the trigger on Ponder at 15.

by Jshore on Oct 3, 2011 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions

Spielman's Track Record

You have to trust the front office and scouts track record with the drafts we’ve had. If it tells you anything, Ponder should be pretty darn good.

Really? Let’s look it over (yes, others posted specifics, but I want my own strategery in place :) ). He’s been with the Vikings for 4 drafts (he came in just after the 2006 draft, so he gets no credit or blame for that one).

The year is followed by the number of players still on the roster out of how many were drafted.

2007 – 2/8

1. Adrian Peterson RB Roster
2. Sidney Rice WR
3. Marcus McCauley CB
4. Brian Robison DE Roster
5. Aundrae Allison WR
6. Rufus Alexander LB
7. Tyler Thigpen QB
7. Chandler Williams WR

2008 – 3/5

2. Tyrell Johnson S Roster
5. JD Booty QB
5. Letroy Guion DT Roster
6. John Sullivan C Roster
6. Jaymar Johnson WR

2009 – 5/5

1. Percy Harvin WR Roster
2. Phil Loadholt OT Roster
3. Asher Allen CB Roster
4. Jasper Brinkley LB Roster
7. Jamarca Sanford S Roster

2010 – 5/8

2. Chris Cook CB Roster
2. Toby Gerhart RB Roster
4. Everson Griffen DE Roster
5. Chris DeGear OT Roster
5. Nathan Triplett LB
6. Joe Webb QB Roster
7. Mickey Shuler TE
7. Ryan D’Imperio LB

2011 – 8/10

1. Christian Ponder QB Roster
2. Kyle Rudolph TE Roster
4. Christian Ballard DE Roster
5. Brandon Burton CB Roster
6. DeMarcus Love T Roster
6. Mistral Raymond S Roster
6. Brandon Fusco C Roster
6. Ross Homan LB
7. D’Aundre Reed DE Roster
7. Stephen Burton WR

That works out to….

23/36 are still on the roster. That sounds impressive. And would be, if so many of them weren’t able to crack the first team.

2 RB
6 WR
4 CB
4 DE
5 LB
4 QB
3 S
1 DT
2 C
3 OT
2 TE

Who did make the first team?

Starters

1 RB Adrian Peterson
1 WR Percy Harvin
1 DE Brian Robison
1 C John Sullivan
1 OT Phil Loadholt
1 S Tyrell Johnson

Everyone else is backup material, or developmental players who may or may not pan out. They may not develop in time for the Viking’s needs. Who knows. But in 5 drafts, Spielman has given us 5 starters, 1 of whom totally sucks the llama’s behind and 1 of whom has regressed since his first year, to the point where he might lose his starting position, and one of whom has done a great job of getting himself beat like a redheaded stepchild since his first snap. In fact, I’d only call Peterson and Harvin, unqualified successes, but even my deceased grandmother could have made those picks and got them right.

So I’m not exactly cheering Spielman as the genius of drafting. How many CBs

So what is the problem with this team…..Coaching!

Yep. That too :)

Man, I wish SBN would climb out of the stone age of editors and give us some modern features, like… tables. And re-edit after saving.

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Oct 4, 2011 8:59 AM CDT reply actions

ARGH! That's what I mean. I futz'ed a number, should be 6 starters, 3 of whom suck butt, not 5 and 3.

But hopefully, the point is still there :)

by DCPurple on Oct 4, 2011 9:04 AM CDT reply actions

yes, your point came across...ot of "butt sucking", right?

warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!

by danny lloyd on Oct 4, 2011 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions

easy to see...

The fact that keeps people in Purple cool aid fog. Is yes the front office drafted and planned for the win now. some how they got into that “just need that on spot filled and we win it all.” Then 09 as I have said before was a easy schedual and we did not win the hard games that year. You could tell last year before the get go the players did not believe the window was still open as how the key players we re not in camp and there seemed to be no cohesiveness. But the fog remained and people thought 09 was going to carry over. We showed almost amateur decsion making. And now here we are caught.
Key spots ignored or at best band aided over the past 3-4 years are now rearing. Its amazing how some people still think get AD the ball every play and some Harvin and we win. That is such a lack of football knowledge. The stars we have on this team can be counted on 2 hands between both sides of the ball. With the rest of the players we have there is NO way one guy is going to carry this team to winning. Sadly the wheel is broken.
it was broken last year but to try and grasp anything that was left over from 09 we tossed in everything and anything that would give us just another breathe. During the draft looking at what we really needed and what we did not do and no real changes in key failing positions it was easy to see this year is not even a rebuild year its the flatly ok find out yah and admit we now need to rebuild. All this " if the just did this or ran that," is all cool aid. Excuses are just that people want to blame the lockout, or Mcnabb or the coaching. This team was broken in so many spots last year and 09 hid the coming of this that you can no way pin it on one guy. How cheesy some posters have been after the draft “oh yeah Ponder is our man lah lah” yet he hasnt played a down in reg season and some of you so called Ponder people are now saying Luck in the next draft. Your loyalty to your own football ideas goes out the window. A few of us have looked negative because we see it and are not afraid to say it I gave them 5-11 before the opener we have lost 2 of those I had the winning. We were broken and not repaired and this is the year that basic football fan should be able to see it.

@}-----You've been Touched-----{@

by Velvetouch on Oct 4, 2011 11:35 AM CDT reply actions