Upon further review, my thoughts about the Vikings/Chiefs game...and what it means going forward
This week I went to Arrowhead Stadium to watch the Vikings lose their fourth game of the season to the previously 0-3 Chiefs. I have to give kudos to the Chiefs fans. They were very good hosts.
So, we’re 0 and 4 now. That pretty much stinks. However, there is something liberating about being 0-4. We just lost to a team that hadn’t won a game all season. Whatever hope we may have secretly harbored that this team would surprise us has faded. If anything, I’m surprised that this team is struggling as much as it is. All that said, it’s time to change directions. Some unproductive veterans need to sit. It’s time to play the younger guys and see what they’ve got.
Now that we’re four weeks into the season, I think it’s safe to say that the team’s weak links remain unchanged. I am increasingly frustrated with the coaching staff and their unwillingness to make much needed personnel adjustments. I think Tyrell Johnson is in the process of being phased out, but he still finds a way on to the field from time to time and still gives up big plays during his brief appearances. Berrian must surely be at the end of his rope now. He’s on pace to catch 8 balls for the season. He had a nice catch in the fourth quarter, but he showed his characteristic lack of effort on a poor pass from McNabb that hit Berrian in the foot as he was coming back to the ball. I’m convinced that just about every other receiver in the NFL would have dived for that ball, but that’s just not Berrian’s style. In fact, I cannot think of a single time in which Berrian has laid out for a ball. As usual, Sullivan was bad and Loadholt was utterly awful. The Star Tribune reported today that at Leslie Frazier’s press conference yesterday he said that he was “considering some personnel changes.” At this time, I think all four of the players I just mentioned should be put on the bench. As I’ll address in a moment, I think we have better alternatives at three of the positions, and in the case of the fourth player, Loadholt, I think he’s left the team no choice but to make a switch regardless of whether or not his replacement is ready.
Having just dumped on the same four guys yet again, let me switch gears and reiterate something I do like about this new team. In doing so, I expect that my steadily declining weekly article “recs” will drop from last week’s four to something like zero and a couple of “flags.” Here is goes anyway; I like Bill Musgrave’s play calling. There. I said it. Let me do a literary pause so that you can cuss and shout and maybe kick the dog and then come back to this post without so much pent up hostility.
(pause)
Look, I understand that it’s tough not to cast blame on the coaching staff when a team goes 0-4. And candidly, I’m tremendously disappointed in Frazier thus far this season. However, I think Musgrave is solid. He’s working with an offensive line that has two huge holes in it (i.e. Sullivan and Loadholt) and a stop gap left tackle (i.e. Charles Johnson). He also has problems in the receiving corps. Even his quarterback is having challenges with accuracy. And don’t get me started on all of the offensive penalties and the admission by Harvin that players lined up in the wrong spots in the game against the Bucs. Based on what I’ve reviewed of these games, I really do like Musgrave and his offensive system.
One thing I like is the creative use of tight ends in his packages. I’ve seen a number of 3 TE sets, but done in a way that is fairly unpredictable. I’ve also seen Musgrave creatively roll the offensive line one way and then have McNabb roll out the other way. Those plays have worked every time. The Percy Harvin end-arounds have pretty much been winners every time as well. However, execution has been a problem, and I’ll use the Vikings first possession as an example. The second play of the game was a variant of the rolling line play. With the entire line moving left, Harvin broke off and went right. The throw from McNabb wasn’t perfect, but it also seems that Harvin unnecessarily left his feet for the ball. He caught it but fell to the ground and ended up with a negative yard on the play. I can’t fault Musgrave for that. It was a cool play that was intended to get Harvin into space. The next play looked like a busted play. Harvin was in the backfield. McNabb took the snap from the shotgun position, appeared to stop and hold out the ball, but Harvin never made a move for the ball and instead became a pass rush blocker. The play ended up a mess, and it’s clear that someone messed up their assignment. I think it was Harvin.
I think these blown plays are the growing pains of a new offense and a shortened pre-season. I suppose that some might argue that a coach is responsible for the readiness of their team, but my view is that these are professional athletes who are responsible for knowing the playbook and their responsibilities. Regardless, I like what Musgrave is doing, and I would be sorry if he ends up being tarnished by the team’s record to date.
“The Replacements”
Aromashodu: This guy can catch! He made a couple of really nice catches in tight coverage in the pre-season, and his end zone catch last Sunday was a thing of beauty. This guy is huge, and he fights for the ball. I mentioned last week that I think he has the build and disposition to be a deep threat along the lines of what Sydney Rice was in 2009. Rice wasn’t a burner, but he was fast enough. And if the ball was put up high enough, Rice was likely going to be the guy to come down with it. I think, admittedly partly based on faith, that Aromashodu could play that role for the Vikings. And guess what, he should be playing just so that we can find out if he can be that guy. Berrian is done. Eric Thompson posted an article on the front page of the Daily Norseman that showed Berrian has been thrown to 16 times over 4 games and has 2 catches to show for it. Before last week, he’d been on the field for about 75% of all plays and this past Sunday looked to be about the same. At some point, it doesn’t matter who’s at fault and why the production has been so poor. The fact is that Berrian isn’t producing, while Aromashodu has just shown that when given the chance he can score touchdowns. (As an aside, Berrian hasn’t scored a touchdown since 2009).
Berger: Sullivan sat out for two plays after being hurt early in the 2nd quarter. As a result, Vikings fans had the opportunity to see Berger at center. Alas, it only lasted for 2 plays. On the first play, Berger stood up the Chiefs DT in a one on one, and when I say “stood up,” I mean stone cold STOOD HIM UP! The guy got no push up the middle at all. On the play, McNabb had one of the best passing pockets of the game and was able to go through his progressions until he found and hit Rudolph down the sideline for a very big gain. The second play was a running play up the middle. Berger made strong contact, began to push his guy back, received assistance from Hutchinson which resulted in the center of the Kansas City D-line moving back three yards off of the line of scrimmage. Peterson ran up behind the Berger and Hutch blocks for a five yard gain.
After these two plays, Sullivan then returned to the line. On the basis of just these two plays, I have to say in the clearest possible way that Berger should be playing in place of Sullivan. Sullivan has struggled all season (and last season too). It’s time to move on. Even if Berger can only run 50 plays versus whatever is in the playbook, I don’t care. Nothing good comes from giving up the battle in the middle of the line, and Sullivan just doesn’t win the battles in the trenches very often.
My Favorite Least Favorite Topic:
Tyrell Johnson: I know this is beating a dead horse at this point, but as long as Frazier and Pagac are going to put this guy in, I’m going to comment on him. When I saw Johnson get on the field in the 2nd quarter with 7:47 on the clock, I turned to my buddy and said, “Looks like we’re giving up on this series.” Given my vantage point in the stands, I decided to simply watch Johnson while he was on the field. The very first play was a 45 yard pass in which Johnson had an opportunity to absolutely crush the receiver at the point he made the catch. Instead, he took an angle that was aimed a yard or two deeper than where the receiver would be. As a result, Johnson not only completely missed the receiver, he managed to take out Cedric Griffen on the play as well. Honestly, I don’t think the television view really did justice to just how badly Johnson misplayed the angle on this pass. And on the next play, he did the same thing. He misjudged the speed of the running back who was swinging wide down the line. Johnson ended up missing him. The play went for 9 yards. The next play the ball went to the opposite side of the field from Johnson. He had no impact on the play. Then someone on the sideline came to their senses, and Johnson was replaced by Sanford. Johnson did not return to the game. I think this is the second consecutive game in which Johnson has only played in one series. In both cases however, he gave up very big plays.
Make a Change at Quarterback:
McNabb had a few bad misses this game but also had a bunch of really good throws as well. The throw to Aromashodu for a TD was absolute perfection. Generally speaking I’ve been impressed with McNabb’s pocket presence. I have defended him through the first three games and remain convinced that the team is better with him than without him. However, as a result of our 0-4 record, I’m ready to make a change at QB. Let’s face it. We aren’t going to the playoffs this year. The 4 game lead by the Packers and the Lions is pretty much insurmountable for a Vikings team with the problems this team has. In my opinion, it’s time to let McNabb move to a teaching role on the sideline. McNabb does nothing for our 2012 prospects, and in my view, that’s what this team should start thinking about. I was disappointed to hear that Frazier said that McNabb is going to continue to start and that Ponder won’t see the field. I think this is where Frazier’s interests and my interests diverge. I think Frazier will do anything he can to notch as many wins as he can even if that number ends up being zero. Instead, I’d like to see the team switch modes and treat the next 12 games as an extended pre-season. I want to see Webb and Ponder at QB.
Grab Bag of Stuff:
12 Game Pre-Season: I’m going to pick up on that last thought about treating the next 12 games as a pre-season audition for younger players and backups. We have players on this team who shouldn’t be starters this year let alone next year, and we have other players that are coming to the end of the tours of duty. Giving those veterans more experience serves no useful purpose. We should see what the backups have. Specifically, I want to see Webb and Ponder (in place of McNabb), Berger and Fusco (in place of Sullivan), Love (in place of Loadholt), and I’d like to see those changes now.
I’d also like to see more of Marcus Sherels and Brandon Burton on a rotational basis with Winfield and Griffin respectively – though I could see Griffin being a player who could use more time on the field after missing 2010. Still, I’d like to see Sherels and Burton get on the field from time to time. I think Sherels subbing in for Winfield on obvious passing downs might actually improve the pass defense. Sherels coverage in the pre-season was spectacular for the most part. I recall three slant plays in which he covered his man so tightly that he was able to knock away the pass. However, regardless of whether or not he improves the pass defense, I’d like to see him getting experience and see how his size issues translate on the field.
Lastly, I would also like to see Mistral Raymond a bit. I would cut Tyrell Johnson and let Mistral Raymond get his spot on the field. For those who say we need to keep Johnson as a back up, I vehemently disagree. The last two games he has essentially played the role of a back up, and he was carved up when on the field. I also don’t think Johnson brings much to the special teams squad, but I know some other people disagree with that statement. I don’t know if Mistral Raymond would see much time on the field. I suspect he wouldn’t, but he’d get more reps in practice if Johnson were let go. I want to continue seeing Abdullah and Sanford develop. For the most part, I’ve liked Sanford even with his very occasional errors and misses (e.g. the missed tackle on the TD in which Griffin was beat again). Abdullah has been better than either Johnson or Madieu Williams, but there’s opportunity to grow and improve. Anyway, I don’t expect a chorus of agreement on this point, but I think at 0-4 it’s time to look to the future and truly think and play like a team that is rebuilding.
One Play the Chiefs Ran Repeatedly that the Vikings Never Figured Out: One play that consistently killed the Vikings on Sunday was when the Chiefs sent a running back or wide receiver out on a pass route that began on the right side of the field five yards past the line of scrimmage and then went across the width of the field. The first time the play was run there was no one within 5 yards of the receiver. Luckily for the Vikings Cassel missed the throw. Later in the game, the Vikings would not be so lucky, and they got burned by this play at critical times. I think this play illustrates a deficiency in the zone scheme that the Vikings run. San Diego was the first to expose this weakness, and it hasn’t let up since then.
Scariest Moment of the Game: Chad Greenway got blindsided on a play so badly that when he stood up to run back to the huddle he had to sit back down. It wasn’t a graceful sit down. It was the sort of woozy, “where’s the ground and how do I get to it without hurting myself in the process?” that typifies a concussion. Sitting in the stands, it was tough to watch. He was eventually able to get to his back and was motionless with one knee bent and one hand and forearm up in the air. It made me wonder if he lost consciousness for a moment, because that extended hand in the air is what Tavaris Jackson did when he was knocked out against the Lions some years ago. I’ve seen it other times too (e.g. Emmitt Smith being hit by a linebacker and losing consciousness and the ball before hitting the ground). I don’t know that Chad lost consciousness after lying down. I do know he was suffering from a concussion. I was appalled to see him back on the field a couple of plays later. I have lost additional respect for Frazier, the trainers and the NFL as a result. What happened to all the talk about taking away people’s helmets? If Greenway passed the sideline concussion test, then that test is a joke. I saw the play when I got home and watched the game. Greenway got hit in the side of his helmet by the helmet of a blocker lunging at him at full speed. The announcer said something to the effect of Chad being back on the field after getting the wind knocked out of him. I think anyone who has had the wind knocked out of them knows that when it happens you are fighting for breath and writhing in agony. Chad was motionless for at least a minute and lay on the ground for longer than that. Yes, he eventually ran off the field, but as the trainers should know, when a brain suffers a concussion it is in a very vulnerable state. He should never have been allowed back on the field. I’m sickened by a staff that would hold so little regard for their players’ well being. It’s one thing to suggest that football is a dangerous sport. It is quite another thing to put an obviously injured player out on the field – an injury that could have both short-term and long-term consequences including fatal ones.
Closing:
I did not expect this team to do well this year. The problems on the O-line were well known in the off season. That said, I'm pretty amazed that this team sits at 0 and 4. Frazier seems to think that things are close to being turned around, but I'm far from confident in his assessment. As I've said, I'd like us to start playing for 2012 and use the time productively in assessing our younger talent and getting them some experience on the field. And if worse comes to worst, let's go get ourselves an Andrew Luck in the draft. On that happy thought, I'll close this post out.
This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.
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another good read, kcskol. these are the best articles going on the dn.....um, FRONT PAGE PLEASE.
as for musgrave. i like some of his sets and some of his play designs also. but he is like a pitcher who has good stuff, except that he can’t find the plate and doesn’t know how to “pitch” a ballgame.
thanks for the berger snippet, and i’d be interested in your first quarter assessment of frazier as well.
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
Very kind. Thanks.
I like the analogy though I can’t quite bring myself to agree with it. Penalties, initial field position, poor on field execution, etc. have put him in a tough position in a number of games. It could be I’m being too gentle on him, but at this point, I’m pleased that he’s the guy they got.
It took me a while to figure out your first quarter assessment of Frazier request. I thought you meant first quarter of the Chiefs game. I didn’t know where to go with that. Now I do.
Here’s something I posted last year about my worries about Frazier as a head coach: http://www.dailynorseman.com/2010/12/22/1891554/one-uncomfortable-nagging-thought-about-leslie-frazier
The post was written as a basic question and a concern at the time, but I think the pre-season and first four games of the season have led me to believe that I was on to something. I have a number of beefs about Frazier, but most of them are based on one or two observations. I’ll comment on them but will also admit that I’m giving him more opportunities to see if they were just one time mistakes versus being consistent behaviors. However, my two biggest issues with Frazier that I think are real, certifiable problems are:
1) His weakness regarding personnel decisions. He has some absolute bums playing on this team. They were bums last year and the year before. He had the opportunity to make a couple of easy decisions during the preseason, and he didn’t make them. Now they are hurting us on the field and have contributed to our 0 and 4 record. He’s adjusting his use of Tyrell Johnson but much, much too late in my opinion. Maybe he’ll sit Berrian, but I doubt it.
2) The preseason bake off between Webb and Ponder turned out to be a joke. Webb out played Ponder by a wide margin in the 2nd and 3rd preseason games. When it came to the last game, Ponder had his chance to show us what he’s got. He had two good series of downs. So what happened when Webb got on the field? A bunch of hand offs to Caleb King. On the few throws Webb was allowed to make, he did very well. However, King (a guy who wasn’t going to make the team) got 19 carries. At that point, I thought, “The fix is in.” Any head coach who wants to win needs to assess his players on the merits. I see Frazier trying to “manage” things rather than running a “let the best man win” team. I have no patience for that sort of management style.
One of the things that bothered me about Childress was he was slow to change his mind (e.g. putting Peterson in over Chester Taylor in his rookie season took way too long in my opinion). The other thing that bothered me was his game time management. His decision making regarding challenges was particularly baffling. The 12 men on the field (after a time out no less) was the icing on the cake. I fear that Frazier might share Childress’ game management weakness. Both coaches made awful decisions when faced with easily makeable field goals. However, only Frazier seemed to waffle and change his mind in the face of team and fan pressure (and after a long pause for measuring the ball). Frazier hasn’t been very good at managing time outs either (e.g. the Bucs game), but I’ll give him a pass on that because I could see what he was thinking and hindsight is 20/20.
The reluctance to make important personnel changes is driving me nuts though and is the single biggest reason we are 0-4 at this point. For example, Sullivan should not be playing center. He’s peaked at a point that’s lower than many centers’ worst day.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
yep, all that. and i don't think there is any sense of urgency or new identity that he is bringing.
i have been a supporter of his from the get go, and i want him to suceed, but i really have to say that i have him on notice at this juncture. i think he should be standng up and taking accountabiliity and setting a tone. but his passive approach has me nervous, because of a lot of the reasons you pointed out above. who knows what he says behind closed doors, it appears that the players still repect him, which is good, but maybe he just isn’t calling people out. anyway, i think it is a long season, so i expect that there will be several adjustments coming soon.
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
Best one so far.
"Let's go our there, and stick our fists through their ribcages, rip our their hearts, eat them, and shit them back out on the field!!" - Blue Mountain State
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Oct 4, 2011 10:04 PM CDT reply actions
Absolutely agree.
I saw Berger come in and actually make a noticeable difference. And then I was sad again because I saw Sullivan running back out.
Oh. Missed that.
Thanks.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Glad to Hear
I’m not the only one that noticed the HUGE difference between Berger and Sully. But what are the odds that there are actually some changes?
Truthfully?
I don’t know. If Frazier really wants to win games, you have to think he’s got to make that change. And yet, Sullivan is still on the field along with Berrian. (There’s a scandal somewhere in Frazier’s past and both Sullivan and Berrian have pictures).
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Oh, and while this might seem random to most if not all of you, I can't resist.

When you finally know how to do something it’s hard not to want to show off to your friends. :-)
(For those of you who missed it last week, danny lloyd gave a tutorial on how to size and post a picture. I don’t know if I would call it a life changing event, but it’s definitely one of those sweet pleasures in life that one should not go without).
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
by kcskol on Oct 5, 2011 11:52 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
that's a painful moment frozen in time right there...
and by the by, another great write-up KC.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
SKOL VIKINGS!
Sometimes the reward for making a good play...
…just doesn’t feel right. At least that’s the first lesson I draw from the picture. The alternative lesson is that any picture of a man getting hit in his private parts will make other people laugh.
Just to make you cringe doubly hard, I wonder if the ball hit him there first. If so, at least he might have been unconscious by the time the foot arrived.
Anyway, glad you liked the article.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Incredible piece kc!
I have to say, you are now hands-down my favorite writer on DN. I look forward to your synopsis every week, and every week it is the most insightful comprehensive level-headed summary of our futile efforts on the field, as well as our shortcomings on the sidelines. I agree almost entirely with your conclusions and opinions, and I wish/hope that in some way, shape or form these pieces get some play within the franchise.
One thing that we don’t really know is the mood of the locker room. Despite his shortcomings regarding some specific personnel decisions, I think that Frazier has the team 100% behind him. For a team that is 0-4 that says something. If they truly believe that somehow they’re still in the hunt then it probably is too soon to go into developmental mode. It will be very interesting to see things play out as the writing on the wall becomes clearer. Losing now would sure as hell be more palatable if I felt like we were developing our young talent and preparing them to win us a championship in the future.
I'm blushing now. Thank you.
I understand your point about the locker room. At a personal level, I think Frazier is probably a super great guy who is loved by all who know him. As a football coach, I wonder. For some reason, your question about the locker room reminds me of Wade Phillips. I recall him being loved by his players in the locker room, but it also seemed like his teams often underperformed their level of talent.
It’ll be interesting to see what happens against Arizona. If we lose that game, I think it’ll be safe to say that the wheels have come off the cart, and any pretense of having a shot at anything positive and meaningful will have gone out the window.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
I guess it all depends your perspective
I thought it was the bottom that had fallen out but that the wheels were still attached. However, I guess I can see how you might think I was focused on the wrong part of the cart.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Nice job KC
I would say that I think that if Musgrave is being given a pass due to personnel then Frazier should also get the same pass. Frazier did inherit this mess of a squad from Childress after all. He cannot be expected to turn it around in one season.
I too was frustrated with the free agency signings but perhaps they just were not impressed with the available players. I was wanting them to get Mike Sims-Walker in the worst way and release Berrian but MSW is not doing much yet. I think they were burned by McKinnie who decided to show up fat and out of shape and then refused to take a pay cut. He eventually did in Baltimore though. So they did not get that left tackle of the future. They did get a QBOTF though.
I just do not see how Frazier can be criticized for the personnel. He drafted a QB in the first round, got the top TE, got a 2nd round DT in the 4th round, got a 3rd round CB in the 5th, and then added two developmental offensive line prospects. He jettisoned some of the Childress favorites and let Kleinsasser play more often in his rightful position of fullback. Why Childress moved him from there remains a mystery to me?
They brought in Ayodele, Jenkins, and Aromashodu. They got Adibi and McKenzie too. They broguht in Berger who you want to see start. Frazier deserves credit for these things too. They also were trying to get Otogwe and Weddle but lost out so they definitely were doing all they could to upgrade the safety position. This last draft was not a strong draft for safeties. They still grabbed a guy who has corner skills and has played safety in Raymond.
And at the same time he has some veterans who want to win now. And he did not even get the benefit of having a proper off season. I think criticism is warranted to a degree but he is only working with what he has while still trying to show the players that they have a chance still. There is a fine line between throwing in the towel and still having your players feel like they have a reason to play hard.
Here is an article from today’s startribune which talks about a meeting Frazier had with Bud Grant …
http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/131109268.html
“Grant knows what Frazier is going through in what has now become a 0-4 start. Forty-four years ago, Grant started his Hall of Fame Vikings career by opening the 1967 season 0-4.”
Just think if people were that hard on Bud? Maybe they were but without the internet it was probably not as upfront as it is today.
I also do not believe that Frazier or the staff deserve criticism for allowing Greenway back in the game. He took a heck of a hit from that big TE that is for sure. I saw it on replay and saw him on his knees for a little bit. I just do not see a head coach getting involved in the medical issues of a player during a game. Frazier has too many other things going on to go over and ensure that Greenway is indeed ready to come back in the game. He does have control over the medical personnel and can replace them though. But that would have to happen after the game. He is looking at who is coming in to replace Greenway and what the defense is going to run on the next play most likely.
I will say that they made the right decision based on how Greenway finished the game. It may have looked bad to you but Greenway is the only one who really knows how he feels. I guess if Greenway suffers another concussion type injury in the next couple of games they will have to look at him a little longer. It really is a tough call if Greenway passed the tests they administered. I cannot really criticize the medical people because of how Greenway performed the rest of the game. I am guessing that the NFL reviews all of those decisions and that the medical staff has to file a report on the injury after the game especially if it appears that the player could have had a concussion. I mean they already keep players out of games if they definitely did suffer a concussion.
Without all the facts it is hard to really give a fair assessment of the staff in this case. Considering Greenway is a big man he may have shook it off quickly. Perhaps the league does need to do more when a player gets his “bell rung” but it really would be up to the player to admit that his bell is rung and want to come out the game. I do not see Greenway doing that. He probably was looking for some payback.
When I look at this season thus far I see some games the Vikings definitely let get away. Over the course of a season these things happen though. Looking at the remaining schedule one could say that there does not appear to be too many games that are winnable on paper. Thankfully it is not played on paper.
I can see a victory vs Arizona. Against Chicago the going will be tough but you never know. Division games are always tough and you can throw the records out the window. I see the Vikings taking one of the games vs Chicago, Detroit, and Green Bay the rest of the way. I think they can beat Carolina, Oakland, Atlanta, Washington, & Denver too. New Orleans may be tough. I still can see 8 or 9 wins. I may be crazy though.
I think that some personnel changes are coming like Aromashodu getting more time and Berrian less. I think some changes may be in store on the offensive line too but not for a many games. Maybe they put Brown or Love in for a little bit to get Loadholt fired up? Maybe they play Berger altogether? I will admit that Loadholt is struggling in pass protection. But he is doing very well in run blocking. The Vikings rank first on runs at right tackle through 4 weeks … http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol
Either way they can win some games as they have played 3 good teams right now in San Diego, Tampa, and Detroit and had them all on the ropes. You cannot do that if you are just flat out awful. They just need to seal the deal.
It is a long season and things will start to bounce the Vikings way soon.
Good job. It is nice to get the reaction from someone who was at the game and could see the whole field and can do a very good write up from their viewpoint.
You make some good points there.
And thank you for the compliment.
I would say that I think that if Musgrave is being given a pass due to personnel then Frazier should also get the same pass. Frazier did inherit this mess of a squad from Childress after all. He cannot be expected to turn it around in one season
I understand your perspective on that, but here’s why I think it’s a different situation. I’m giving Musgrave a pass because he’s making a game plan and making play calls with the hand he’s been dealt. The penalties, the poor execution, the terrible pass protection, the poor command of the playbook by some players (undoubtedly due to the shortened pre-season) are challenges not of his making. I like what I see from Musgrave despite the disappointing execution on the field. Frazier on the other hand has been head coach now for nine months. More to the point though, he was responsible for this team since the start of the off season. The fact that Berrian and Tyrell Johnson made the team was a surprise. The fact that they actually played meaningful minutes was shocking to me. If Sullivan starts next game, I’d put that as a mark against Frazier too. I won’t pretend I was happy with this last draft either. We needed O-line help in the worst way. I knew it. You knew it. Leslie Frazier knew it. The value of the Ponder pick remains to be seen, but without an O-line, no QB can be successful. I’m disappointed that we took Ponder where we did, and my review of his preseason play hasn’t given me much reason to change that initial impression. I’m fine with the idea that it takes time for QBs to develop, and Ponder may end up being great. He might also end up being a back up. Who knows at this point? Nothing in pre-season suggested he’s more likely to be great rather than a back up. But perhaps that’s besides the point. I’m just saying the Ponder pick was a gutsy call that looked a bit like panic and left our O-line exposed. Loadholt was not good last year. He’s every bit as bad this year. McKinnie was slowing down (although you are totally right that his near 400 lb weight could not have been anticipated). I would have gone OL. As for the second pick, I’m a bit mystified by that too. Rudolph has unbelievable hands for a TE. He’s also a bad blocker. Sometimes you hear about a TE who isn’t a good blocker. Rudolph is a category changer in that regard. He’s brought bad blocking to a new level. He might improve. I hope he does. However, its tough to use a TE on the field when they can’t really block. I think the Rudolph pick was another gutsy, risky pick. So basically, we picked up two positions that either weren’t going to be starters or where we didn’t have a real need at the moment. Meanwhile we left the heart of the offense – the offensive line untouched. And this isn’t hindsight talking. We all saw the problems with the offensive line last year. In my opinion, that’s on Frazier. In Frazier’s defense, he was saddled with a bloated salary cap and the lock out. I think he could have made wiser decisions around the salary cap. Berrian and Cammy may have restructured their deals, but we had better options that we cut from the team in my opinion.
I also do not believe that Frazier or the staff deserve criticism for allowing Greenway back in the game.
I think you are right about this from the Frazier perspective. It’s not his job to do that evaluation of a player’s health. However, he does set the tone. A player who has suffered a head injury is the last person who should be making the call on whether or not he plays. It’s not how he plays after the injury that worries me. It’s what is happening to his brain as he gets more contact through the rest of the game. When my daughter had a bad head first (feet up in the air) fall on a wet tile floor, the advice we got from doctors was for her to take it easy and to avoid any further head trama over the next few days at all costs. Granted my daughter is a child and children’s brains are more at risk than adult brains. However her symptoms were mild compared to Greenway’s. Furthermore science is telling us that adult brains suffer too and putting someone with a concussion back on a football field of all places is crazy.
I mean they already keep players out of games if they definitely did suffer a concussion.
Greenway couldn’t stand for several minutes. I’m unaware of any head trauma of that kind that results in that symptom without a concussion being involve. Somebody needs to protect that man.
On the other stuff, I kind of agree. I don’t know if the Vikings will win a game this season. At the same time, I wouldn’t be shocked if they came out of the season with 6 wins (which was my original guess before the season started). If they could limit their penalties, have better special teams play in the 2nd half of games, and make the personnel adjustments you alluded to, I could see things improving. The loss to the Chiefs though really does have me worried. They didn’t have a lead all season and are not a quality team unlike our previous three opponents. I guess we’ll see what happens when we are at home against the Cardinals.
Thanks for taking the time to share your perspective and for putting a more positive perspective on Frazier’s coaching.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
You are preaching to the choir about this past draft
I was very upset with the Ponder pick and wanted Nate Solder. In my first mock I had Solder.
The Rudolph pick was kind of like the Gerhart pick. Totally out of left field. But considering that Shiancoe is in the last year of his deal and Kleinsasser too, it could end up being very shrewd. I am not too worried about his blocking right now. I am hoping that Reisner makes the practice squad and then the team next year. But even if he does not they can always pick up a big blocking TE. I think that Rudolph is going to prove to be a beast in the pass game and then we will not have to worry about his blocking as much.
Maybe they sign Kleinsasser for another couple of years since he is still going strong? But I would use him at fullback almost exclusively. I know he was on the line once in the KC game and had to block a DE all on his own which resulted in a sack or a pressure/hurry.
As for the execution of the offense … I am all for it (borrowing a line from John McKay). But again, Musgrave is the OC so he has to be involved during practices making sure guys are lining up correctly and doing what they are suppose to be doing. It is his baby. Frazier will have to take all the blame and that is fine but I like the way he is handling it right now. He publicly said that they need to look at McNabb’s mechanics. He publicly said they have to look at all personnel. That is sending a strong message to the players (and none of us know if he did not give them a stern lecture and possibly even use HARSH language – though I doubt it) that their jobs are on the line. He is taking the bull by the horns but in a very subtle way. I think the is trying to get the player’s attention without all the shouting, screaming, knee jerk personnel decisions, etc. Obviously I am in the minority being a Frazier fan. I think he has his own style and I think he will make changes that you want. He already has phased Tyrell out of the games and the only reason Tyrell got in was because Sanford went out for a minute as someone said above.
I think they are on track with the personnel too. Sure I wish they would have drafted an OT but getting Ponder is not bad. Ponder surprised me with his athleticism in the preseason. I think he will do well. I am hoping he does now that he is on the team. In this upcoming draft the Vikings stand a very good chance of getting a BETTER offensive tackle than the ones that came out in 2011. Kalil, Martin, & Reiff vs Smith, Solder, and Castonzo. It could be that the Vikings will come out better off next year with a QBOTF and a LTOTF too!
I'm a Frazier fan, too.
You’re not alone! I think he’ll be a very good head coach if given a little time. Let him get the personnel in that he wants instead of having to work with what Childress left him.
I'll get my people right on that. :-)
Thanks.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
I agree with almost everything
I just think we need to be careful putting an inexperienced rookie behind that O-line, even after the changes you suggested. Although at some point if McNabb does not win, he will need to be replaced. If they lose to the Cardinals I will finally be calling for someone else, I prefer Webb but Ponder would be ok too… I don’t really expect much difference between the two of them
Love the call on Burger and I have been with you on Johnson and Berrian since last year
I just remember a Vike tellings me that we havent beat any one good...
but then you’ve lost to not one but two of the teams we have beat. just wanted to throw that out there
Matthew Stafford, Quarterback: a man barely alive, Gentlemen we can rebuild him, We have the technology, We have the capability to make the worlds first bionic QB, Matthew Stafford will be that man, Better than he was before
Better, Stronger, Faster
They said we were a one trick pony, talkin bout CALVIN. Well thats one hell of a TRICK!!!! - Nate B.
After reading your comment...
…I was tempted to write my own comment telling the group about cutting my toenails this morning. However, I decided that such a comment would be a waste of people’s time. I wonder why you didn’t have that same thought before posting your comment. If you’d read the post you’d know that it’s a point of view on the Vikings and their struggles this season. It’s not an article about how great the Lions are. Just throwing that out there.
Thanks for trolling. Have a nice day.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
i enjoyed the read man no disrespect but...
just was hoping the troll that was talking all the trash would show is face and eat his crow like he swore he would…
Matthew Stafford, Quarterback: a man barely alive, Gentlemen we can rebuild him, We have the technology, We have the capability to make the worlds first bionic QB, Matthew Stafford will be that man, Better than he was before
Better, Stronger, Faster
They said we were a one trick pony, talkin bout CALVIN. Well thats one hell of a TRICK!!!! - Nate B.
I think you're going to have to let it go
I don’t think the person to whom you are referring is going to find your “calling him out” message tucked way down here. And what’s the point really? We’re 0 and 4. You beat us in overtime because our headcoach had a brain fart and couldn’t bring himself to follow through on a field goal.
Enjoy the rest of the season. Now that the Vikings have pretty much sunk themselves, I hope you guys do well. I think most people on this site would probably agree.
Keep it nice. Keep it fun. And enjoy your team. Peace. Out.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Told ya Kc ya got a following
But you deserve the credit for most of it,well written,and a POV from a fan,keep up the good work we need something this Season.
I like the idea of Aromashodu replacing double B, but we are back to having McNabb throwing footballs at the feet which doesnt garner many T.D.s.
Have to agree with Mark that Frazier did recieve a mess from Chilly,and the Lockout did not help matters with players coming in out of shape and Coaches not being able implement schemes.Could be a bad year for the Vikes but your weekly posts does make that bearable,I will raise a tall glass to you good Sir.
Many thanks.
I appreciate the metaphorical toast. And I raise a frosted mug right back atcha.
I can tell that I’m in the minority in thinking that McNabb is far from as bad as most seem to think he is. I also understand the sympathy for Frazier. I’ve never been a big fan of coaches who motivate by yelling at adults (or kids for that matter). I like Frazier’s personality, but I’m totally questioning his head coaching ability at this point. I think I might be with the majority on that one.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin

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