Tyrell Johnson and his views

by nmatt71 on Nov 12, 2011 6:48 PM CST

According to a story with the Pioneer Press, Tyrell Johnson is practically ready to hit Free Agency despite it being mid-season.

According to the article he feels he is a "ballhawk" and he alludes to Vikings' defensive scheme is preventing him to making the big plays he feels he is capable of. This may be very true, but I don't think this is his best way of talking himself up for new teams. He is still affiliated with this team, and he has under-performed since he has been drafted by us. I don't see how this could help himself in FA, being as now he could now be viewed as a malcontent to new coaches and his play on the field doesn't exactly back up his talk right here.

Also I don't see how his allusion to our defense goes against his instincts, because he played behind Darren Sharper, the last good ball-hawking safety we had, and played under the same scheme as Sharper. I don't know about the rest of the faithful here at Daily Norseman but after reading this I'm fully ready to cut ties with this kid (but from what I've read from most people on gameday threads they were ready for it long ago).

For his sake, hopefully he does turn his game around for a new team and maybe that's what he needs is a change of scenery but he isn't Ed Reed and I don't think he is going to be despite what he says.

This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.

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Well...

Sharper also claimed after his last year here that the scheme here limited his ball hawking prowess. However, even if that is the case, Johnson has had at least a couple balls hit him in the hands that hit the turf that would have been huge turnovers had he been able to hold on. Also he misses so many tackles. I have a hard time seeing anyone want to sign him after the awful season, and quite frankly, career he’s had here.

by Sburrillbowen14 on Nov 12, 2011 7:18 PM CST reply actions

Yeah he might of had an "ok" rookie season

But he has continued to regress from there. He needs to be cut like yesterday.

by nmvikesfan on Nov 12, 2011 8:57 PM CST up reply actions

I totally remember this drop....what a bum. Surprised it wasn't the onion publishing this article

With 1:56 left and the Buccaneers at the Vikings’ 16-yard-line Vikings, Johnson read quarterback Josh Freeman’s pass over the middle and dove to make a game-clinching interception.

The ball bounced off his hands. Three plays later, running back LeGarrette Blount rushed for a 4-yard touchdown to give the Bucs a 24-20 win.

“Plays like that can change your career,” Johnson said. “That’s what I’ve been steadily waiting on – and (the Vikings) have been waiting on – for the ball to start bouncing my way.”

by dirtyplay on Nov 12, 2011 10:42 PM CST up reply actions

I would maybe agree with his argument

If I’d never seen him given the opportunities to get INTs. But that’s not the case. I’ve seen many time where the ball has beaned off his numbers or hands. I’ve also seen many times where he should have been in position to get a pick, but wasn’t due to number of reasons. He simply cannot back up his talk making it just that, talk.

by SkolNick on Nov 12, 2011 9:32 PM CST reply actions

He does have a point.

The Vikings scheme isn’t designed for interceptions it’s designed for 3 and outs and although he has dropped them he has gotten into position for quite a bit of interceptions. With that said he isn’t very good and should be cut.

"Winning isn't everything but losing is nothing" - Ace Bricka coach of the Galaxy Aces

by FFXVIKE on Nov 12, 2011 10:26 PM CST reply actions

At least he's aware that he's having problems,

and humble enough to admit it….
Unlike BB and Mcnabb who actually thought they were playing well :)
Johnson knows he’s blown a few opportunities. It’s nice to hear him own up to those.
It’s also nice to hear that T. Johnson is humble enough to know that his days as a Vikings are numbered.

As far as the D-Scheme goes.
I say use the scheme that best fits the players abilities.. and draft accordingly.
Don’t draft a “Coverage SS” with poor tackling abilities when the team actually needs a “Hard Hitting SS” that never misses a tackle…. or vice versa!

There’s a reason why D. Sharper was happy to leave !
The Vikings had the best Dline in the league with the best Pass-Rusher.
Why would a potential HOF Coverage-SS be so happy to leave ?

by chaosg on Nov 12, 2011 10:29 PM CST reply actions

Good that he thinks he a big play kind of guy

He can be one somewhere else because he’s had several chances to show he can perform on this team and he hasn’t. It’s possible that our scheme is holding him back but it’s also possible that he’s terrible. I’m more inclined to believe the latter, personally.

by Amrius on Nov 13, 2011 4:35 AM CST reply actions

It is interesting with Tyrell

He has the size, speed, and tools that you want in a safety but there were some concerns about his instincts coming out of college. Most scouts thought he would fit in a cover two system or a system where he could play deep and keep the plays in front of him. It seems the Vikings wanted to make him a strong safety where many scouting reports thought of him more as a free safety.

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=1409
http://www.nfldraft101.com/draft/profiles/player/352/Tyrell_Johnson.jsp
This one has some comments from Greg Cosell …
http://sea.scout.com/2/744800.html
http://warroomreport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=241&Itemid=44
http://thehuddlereport.com/Free/archive/2008DRAFT/2008profiles/Tyrell.Johnson.htm

I like to review the scouting reports to see if they had a player pegged right which helps their credibility IMO.

He started the first 7 of 16 games his first year because Madieu got hurt. Which brings up the question of why did the Vikings sign Madieu in free agency of 2008 (33 mil over 6 years) and then use two picks to move up to draft Tyrell?

This was particularly troubling to me since they only had two picks in the first four rounds because they traded for Allen prior to that draft. Why sign Madieu and then use two picks on Tyrell considering you have Sharper too? This was another move to use two picks on a backup (Toby anyone?).

There is something that is not quite right with the coaching in the secondary IMO. They seem to have trouble developing players and sometimes even picking them in the draft. You have to believe that the secondary coaches would have the most say about players to be drafted. This is suppose to be Fraizer’s area of expertise. Yet they cannot draft many good players in the secondary to save their life. Of course many teams have this problem too.

I just think Tyrell’s development was hurried because of the injury to Madieu and then something is just not working between him and the coaches. They have stuck with him all these years to see if he would “turn the corner” but yanking a guy in an out is not going to help IMO. Maybe he really is not a starter in the NFL?

I have to agree with him in that he may not be a fit in this defense. I think another team will pick him up in free agency next year for sure. He may not make that teams final roster (Stylez White anyone) but he will get invited to a camp.

As I said, it is interesting that he is not working out for the Vikings. I will say that Sanford is not that much better if at all. The safety position group for the Minnesota Vikings is really a hindrance to the success of the defense. Every player is borderline average and that could be their ceiling.

Moving forward, I really do not know what to do. I like to come up with all kinds of scenarios for the team to pickup various free agents and draft picks but now I am reconsidering that whole philosophy.

For example, I like Dashon Goldson or Michael Griffin as free agents this upcoming off season. But considering that the average NFL career is somewhere between 3.5 to 6 years …

http://nflcommunications.com/2011/04/18/what-is-average-nfl-player%E2%80%99s-career-length-longer-than-you-might-think-commissioner-goodell-says/

… I now have to really think hard about which free agents are truly deserving of a large new contract that will last 4 to 6 years. Madieu Williams is a cautionary tale.

But these two have to be better than what we have and would be an upgrade no matter how long they last. I like Griffen a little better than Goldson because he is younger and more productive.

I think the Vikings may offer Tyrell a new contract but he probably wants to test the market to see if there is another opportunity for him to be able to play in a system that he feels fits his style better. Cant blame him for that. He could still end up not starting but he is not a bad reserve safety at all. But he could be too expensive.

The simple fact of the matter is that it is very very HARD to find safeties and cornerbacks that can play at a high level in the NFL. Usually you have to keep cycling through them until you find one that fits.

Too bad the Vikings could not land Weddle or Otogwe. At least they tried.

by MarkSP18 on Nov 13, 2011 9:08 AM CST reply actions

I agree with your point about drafting Tyrell despite having just signed Madieu Williams. When the Vikings traded up in 08 I honestly thought they were taking a QB (Henne or Brohm). For me the ship had already sailed on TJack at the time so maybe it was just wishful thinking. But I was shocked when I read the name of a DII safety (that I had never heard of) scroll across the screen.

I disagree about your assessment regarding the draft imput and player development by the DBs coaches. I seriously doubt that position coaches have anything to do with the draft process. They are too busy during the season coaching and too busy during the offseason preparing for the next season to be fully invested into the scouting process. That is after all why each team has scouts and a GM.

As far as development goes, I think the Vikes have done okay with what they have, sans Tyrell. But I have already hinted at the fact that the FO reached when they took Tyrell in the 1st place. The current ownership, FO, coaching staff has not invested much in the secondary by way of draft picks. Tyrell and Ced Griff were the highest draft picks taken by this current ownership; both taken in the 2nd round. Ced was a solid starter when healthy. Tyrell was a bust. But other than that they have invested two 3rd round picks in Asher Allen and Marcus McCauley. McCauley was a bust. But going back to his junior season, most draft experts thought he would be at least a 2nd rounder. When the Vikes got him in the 3rd, most draft folks thought it was great value. He simply did not produce and is now out of the league. Asher Allen is undersized to be a starting corner. Probably should have waited to draft him until the 4th or 5th round. The current starting safeties were taken in the 7th round and undrafted, Sanford and Abdullah respectively. The fact that the coaches are working with late round draft picks and undrafted players seemingly counters your arguement. I say seemingly because late round or not, they still are not that good. But I don’t know if that qualifies as an idictment of their lack of ability to develop players. I think the coaches just don’t have much to work with in the secondary.

"God always comes first, then grades, (and lastly) football." 11-year old phenom Demias Jimerson on his reaction to being told that he cannot score more than 2 TD's per game in his Arkansas Pee-Wee football league.

by NMVike on Nov 13, 2011 11:35 AM CST up reply actions

I am not so sure they do not have input

As I recall, Frazier went down to Virginia to personally scout Cook. They took him based on Frazier’s recommendation. In fact, Childress even stated to the press that Cook reminded Frazier of himself.

http://www.virginiasports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=17800&ATCLID=204935302

I think it is quite clear that Frazier did scout Cook. Thus, I find it hard to believe that he would not have had any input on prior picks from the time he joined the Vikings.

I do recognize that they are busy during the season, but once it ends they can devote all their time to reading scouting reports, watching tape, going to the post bowl games, the combine, and various pro days. I really do not see what else they could be doing from January (or February) through the end of April.

I’ll take that job anytime.

I think there may have been times when Frazier was hoping to select a DB earlier in the draft than when they did and thus he was stuck with late round picks to try and develop.

It is tough to find late round gems and if that is all you are relying upon, well, then you get what you pay for. And we are getting that now.

by MarkSP18 on Nov 13, 2011 1:36 PM CST up reply actions

Re: Cook

I left Cook out of the discussion because the jury is still out on him, seriously- no pun intended. However, I can agree that the coordinators might have some input from time to time on the draft process. At the time that Cook was selected, Frazier was the DC. However I was not talking about coordinators. From your original post I thought you were referring to the defensive backs coach during the Chilly years. But now that I reread your post I see that you specifically mentioned Frazier.

However with that said, if you compare the 2011 draft to the 2006-2010 drafts, I would say that Chilly had the first and final say on the majority of those draft picks (Asher Allen, Tyrell Sanford, Marcus McCauley, Cedric Griffin, Chris Cook). In hindsight 2 picks were okay, 2 picks were complete busts, and Asher is a servicable backup.

by NMVike on Nov 14, 2011 10:39 AM CST up reply actions

Makes you wonder

how we ever got so lucky as to sign Antoine Winfield. How did THAT happen? Can’t recall the details at the time. To land both Pat Williams and Antoine — two home runs on two swings.

TiggerSr

by TiggerSr on Nov 14, 2011 12:39 PM CST up reply actions

Just sort of happened

I don’t recall the lead up to the Winfield signing, or knowing all that much about him at the time (it was a different era).

Fat Pat was a bit of a reclamation project though.

But yes, both great signings.

by amiller92 on Nov 14, 2011 1:38 PM CST up reply actions

We were way under the cap and had Moss on Offense

A young stud taking the league by storm in KWill, so things were looking up in Minny

by nmvikesfan on Nov 14, 2011 10:51 PM CST up reply actions

Tyrell Johnson has a history...

…of being bad on the field and living in la-la land off it. Everytime he opens his mouth and talks to the press, he seems to think he’s a good player who doesn’t get enough credit for what he does on the field. I just can’t imagine what’s going through his head when he’s sitting in the film room getting his plays reviewed. He is absolutely awful, and it’s not just his drops. He takes horrible angles to the ball and as a result he arrives late and has to chase people down from behind. Same goes for pursuing ball carriers. You can’t be a ball hawk if you can’t get to the ball. And when the roulette wheel of chance puts a ball right in front of him… he drops it. This happens because more often than not (and perhaps always) he’s looking at the receiver rather than the ball in the air.

I don’t know if Johnson has an agent, but if he does, his agent should tell him that the less talking he does the better.

"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin

by kcskol on Nov 13, 2011 10:45 AM CST reply actions