2012 Vikings Depth Chart - A Wishlist
by CCNorsemen on Nov 16, 2011 3:29 PM CST
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PrintThis is probably absurdly early to even begin this type of discussion, but let's face it. This is a lost season, and with the remaining 7 games left, they need to be in scouting mode for the future. The coaches should be trying to figure out who to bring back, who's too expensive, and who to trade/cut. And with that in mind, here is what I hope the Vikings do with their depth chart when the 2012 season finally rolls around.
OFFENSE
QB: Christian Ponder, Joe Webb, [Rd. 6/7 Draft Pick or Free Agent]
RB: Adrian Peterson, Toby Gerhardt, Lorenzo Booker
FB: Ryan D'Imperio
WR: [Free Agent], Percy Harvin, Michael Jenkins, Devin Aromashodu, Stephen Burton/Emanuel Arcenaux
TE: Visanthe Shiancoe, Kyle Rudolph, Jim Kleinsasser
LT: [Rd 1 Draft Pick], Brown/Love
LG: Steve Hutchinson, DeMarcus Love
C: John Sullivan, Joe Berger
RG: Charlie Johnson, Brandon Fusco/Chris DeGeare
RT: Phil Loadholt, [Rd 3 Draft Pick]
Analysis: Our biggest need on offense is our offensive line, and so help me god if we don't draft a left tackle in the first round, I'm going to lose it. There are plenty of high profile wide receivers on the free agent market next year, and we'd be stupid not to go after one of them. We should pick up some additional assurance at the tackle position in rd 3, either as Loadholt's backup, or as additional help along the line. It would be wise to draft a late round, project-type QB behind Joe Webb as well.
DEFENSE
LDE: Brian Robison, D’Aundre Reed
NT: [Free Agent], Christian Ballard, [Rd. 4 Draft Pick]
DT: Kevin Williams, Letroy Guion
RDE: Jared Allen, Everson Griffen
SLB: Chad Greenway, Larry Dean/Rd. 6/7 Draft Pick
MLB: E.J. Henderson, Jasper Brinkley
WLB: Erin Henderson, [Free Agent/Rd. 6/7 Draft Pick]
LCB: [Free Agent], Marcus Sherels
RCB: [Rd 2 Draft Pick], Cedric Griffen, Brandon Burton
SS: [Free Agent/Rd. 5 Draft Pick], Jamarca Sanford
FS: Husain Abdullah, Mistral Raymond, [Rd. 6/7 Draft pick]
Analysis: Boy do we have a lot of needs on defense. There are actually quite a few high profile CB available next year, and along with a WR, we should pick one of them up. We can also address our CB situation with a high, rd 2 pick. Shoring up our safety position with a mid-round pick or free agent would be wise as well. Our Nose Tackle position is noticeably weak, and unless we think Christian Ballard is the answer, we might consider picking up a free agent or drafting a mid-round DT as well. Some late-round LB depth is a great idea too.
2012 Free Agents by Position:
Wide Receiver: DeSean Jackson, Dwayne Bowe, Vincent Jackson, Steve Johnson, Marques Colston
Defensive Tackle: Paul Soliai, Aubrayo Franklin
CB: Cortland Finnegan, Brent Grimes, Tracy Porter, Rashean Mathis
SS: LaRon Landry, Michael Griffin
OVERALL ANALYSIS
This depth chart has us filling 2 starting spots on offense, and 4 starting spots on defense with either free agents or high round draft picks. If we can get lucky with our first 3 draft picks, or maybe even trade down to acquire a couple of first round picks, we have a chance to stock up the roster. By cutting high salary veterans (McNabb and Winfield) we'll free up some cap space to go after some high profile free agents at WR and/or CB. We have a lot of holes on this team, and our depth is shaky at best. At this point in the season, our depth is really showing, especially in the secondary. Let's hope the front office sees the obvious stuff that we all see and makes smart moves to address the roster next year.
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I like the format
I don’t agree with all of it, but I like the format of listing the depth chart with the holes in it and how to fill them. Nice work.
"God always comes first, then grades, (and lastly) football." 11-year old phenom Demias Jimerson on his reaction to being told that he cannot score more than 2 TD's per game in his Arkansas Pee-Wee football league.
Here's what I don't get
Maybe it’s the bias I have after buying the TT approach (which I just accept if that is leveled against me), but if you are planning on a full out rebuild why go after some of these big name free agents? Really they would probably be more money and trouble than their worth at this point for the franchise. I ask because I remember more than one person around here bemoaning the fact that they Vikings sometimes struggle with attracting free agents here. This could be especially true after a tough season. In that case the Vikings would have to shell out extra money to get these guys in the door…money that might exceed their worth. Or if the guy is clearly in his prime and looking to win championships he might not want to wait for the full development of Ponder into a guy who can duel with the other QB’s in the division.
Why not go all in with the draft class and cheap guys? They would be young and hungry. They would revel in the opportunity and there would be a low investment if they didn’t pan over (unless it’s your first round pick and then there are other problems). The first few years might be brutal, but if you are rebuilding anyways that would be a good investment for the long term health of the team.
this organization doesn't seem to know how to assemble a coherent roster anyway...
our draft picks defy our priority needs fairly often, and we ignore the concept of replenishing personnel. couple this with a lack of vision and long term planning, and you get beat 45-7 on monday night football…showing that the team is still floundering in the abyss.
i think our biggest problem is that we don’t have a real football guy running the show.
there is a lack of accountability within the front office organization that is the result of
the owner not wanting to have an actual general manager. and we have been screwing
around with quick fix moves to try to swing for glory with that dick-picting fool number 4.
btw, the vikings are still paying brett favre $7 million THIS YEAR for his services rendered
in year’s past. and they were next to last in the whole salary cap situation this year due to
poor planning. this caused the team to struggle just to get under the cap by the deadline.
it’s hard to go fix the roster when the f.o. sets the table like that.
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
I totally agree about the GM part
I’m not a fan of a committee running a football team. I’m more of the mind that a single vision needs to inform a football franchise. That way the the team can inherit that vision and take the form of the way the team is structured.
I would disagree with the picks matching up with the needs of the team. Value should guide a draft rather than pure need. So while the needs of a team inform value, it can’t be the sole consideration either. So for example I liked the Rudolph pick this past year even though the Vikings had other pressing needs. He’s a god player and a good skill position player for the Vikes for years to come.
Other than that you’re right Danny, the Vikes need to clear out some dead money in order to start turning this thing around.
by PackApologist on Nov 16, 2011 6:44 PM CST up reply actions
Need in the early rounds, BPA in the later
When your team has talent at some position, and holes at others, the quickest way to get competitive is to draft for need in the early rounds, and then BPA in the later rounds. At least you’ll get some starters out of the early rounds and through free agency.
THEN, once the team is at least somewhat competitive you have the luxury of drafting BPA at every draft position. When you do that, you’ll find yourself stocked with talent at random positions and can use trades to acquire draft picks (ala Belichek) to keep your depth solid. But we are so thin at some many positions we don’t have the luxury to draft BPA, else we run the risk of continuing to run a team with holes out on the field season after season.
The Rudolph pick was a prime example of BPA, and while it may help us 2-3 years from now, it doesn’t help us much this year, as Rudolph has had a minimal impact on the offense this year. Imagine if we had drafted a WR like Titus Young, Torrey Smith or Greg Little in round 2 instead….or maybe a DT or OL. Any of those guys could have stepped in a contributed THIS year as a potential starter.
SKOL Vikings!
Two examples that cut contrary to what you are talking about
In 2008 the Packers were replacing Brett Favre. The biggest knock on Rodgers was his ability to stay healthy and no one knew if he was going to be good or not. The Packers needed insurance at QB. They also could of used depth along the defensive line and a playmaker in the LB core. Despite these needs the team drafted Jordy Nelson with their first pick. Greg Jennings was already very good, James Jones had a promising rookie year, and Donald Driver still had some good years in the tank. It was probably the one area of the team where there was little need for no talent, but the pick was good then and now. Today it looks brilliant because Nelson has turned into Driver’s heir and has most of the big plays coming out of the receiving corp this year.
The other example comes from the Vikings. In 2006 the Vikings didn’t have much going for them going offensively, but they did have a pretty good rushing attack with the recent free agent acquisition of Chester Taylor. I believe Taylor had a 1200 yard season and looked to be a good feature back. Despite this in the 2007 draft the Vikings selected Adrian Peterson. He was clearly the best player on the board and slid because of injury concerns. Imagine what would of happened if the Vikings would of took a WR or LB because it was a bigger need at the time rather than draft Peterson.
Drafting for value using BPA as a guide allows the team to get the most talented football player available to the team to increase its talent level, but still adapt for the needs of the team because need informs value. If there is a sore need for a team and players of that position aren’t of the proper value (or if the team is targeting two or three players that may fit that need but the pick exceeds their value) trading down can be an option to try and get that.
I guess I go on this rant because if push came to shove I would go in the opposite order. A team shouldn’t miss on an early round player. As a result it’s best for a team to go BPA in the first one or two rounds. More than any individual need a team needs a high level of talent. After that the coaches can figure how to use that talent through their game plans. In later rounds where the talent level becomes more even through out the draft class it’s easier to take a chance on some players that may fill a need and see if they can be developed or pan out. Again, it’s a question of value of the pick….the lower down the draft you go the amount of the individual pick is worth less so it’s easier to take a risk on reaching for a player that fits what you are trying to do even though the talent level may not be present.
by PackApologist on Nov 16, 2011 10:40 PM CST up reply actions
I get what you're saying
But, if you follow your explanation literally, and the BPA when we draft is a QB or a RB, we’d be stupid to make that selection. We already have 2 good, young QBs and are stocked at the RB position. When we have, at a minimum, half a dozen needs at other starting positions, then it only makes sense to draft for need with those early picks, because our team is so weak.
When you only have a few holes to fill, then I agree with you 100%, draft BPA. But when your team is so full of holes, then you need to shore up your starting positions through a combination of free agency pickups and high draft picks. On the upside, since we have so many needs, we’re bound to fill one of them with BPA in the 1st round. I mean, my god, we need: LT, WR, CB, S, DT….at the very least. Surely when we pick in the top 10, one of the BPA is sure to be one of those positions. How can we go wrong really? Heh, what I am saying, of course we’ll screw it up.
SKOL Vikings!
TE too
There are three positions we should not be drafting: QB, RB and TE (well, and K, P, and FB too for different reasons).
And I agree that there is a difference between adding to a team that’s basically set and needing to rebuild a team that’s broken.
The good news for the Vikings
Assuming you are right and the only positions where there wouldn’t be good value in a #1 pick is QB & RB….hell I’ll even through in TE too….then you should be in fine shape to go pure BPA (or the more value centric position which relies heavily on BPA). Reason being is that in today’s NFL not many TE’s or RB’s are really worth a top ten pick. If there does happen to be one that is, then he’s either really, really worth it (you could make the AP or possibly Vernon Davis arguments here) or you should be able to find a trading partner who might be interested in those guys to move down and find better value.
As for the QB’s, well they tend to be in different sort of position all together. I haven’t seen the way the board is shaping right now, but I have a hard time believing that there will be enough QB’s who are top-10 pick material that will slide down to the Vikes, and if there is there’s an even better chance that some desperate team that is picking behind you might be willing to trade up. Teams reach for QB’s these days, it’s just what they do so a trading partner isn’t out of the question.
by PackApologist on Nov 17, 2011 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
How about instead of pure BPA
You do a tiered approach where these four guys are BPA at this point and time so if you have to pick one you pick the one that is going to help your team the most. I would be hard pressed to actually say every player is better or worse than every other player out there. Rudolph might have been the best TE out there, but as a value I bet there might have been other players out there at that time who were as good of play makers as he was.
So yeah go BPA because even if it takes you a little longer to become great your ceiling will (should) be higher. But do it intelligently and map tiers around it.
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
Yeah, I think there are points where you have to draft for need over BPA if the situation is dire enough. I mean, in 2009 we took Buluga at 23 and then Bryant went 24. I think if we’re talking strictly BPA, Bryant had to be considered the best guy available but we had a HUGE need at OT. Though, the fact that Buluga dropped and didn’t go top 10 like many expected my muddy the waters a bit too.
Really, I think you need a mixture of BPA and need. While I don’t think Buluga was considered better than Bryant (though even that is hard to determine) he filled a dire need for us. And he was considered a top 10 pick by many so you know you’re not just reaching for a position of need.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Nov 19, 2011 10:29 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed..
Funny you put this up Pack I was thinking the exact same. The Vikes are at a point that first should be clear to everyone that its rebuild time. Not just fill some key spots. The time it will take we would be waisting money and upward progress. I said it last year and again at the start of the season the Vikes need an entire new face. One that gets away from the conservative “safe” scheme of things. They need to shake it up big time and infuse some bad boy attitude. Oakland, Tampa, Steelers of old. Infuse a hunger that Ryan brought to the Jets. Either way its going to be a long haul.
@}-----You've been Touched-----{@
Yeah, I don’t really agree with some of the FA signing moves either unless it’s Jackson, Johnson, Porter, or Griffin because all of them are relatively young and could be a part of the future core.
But then again, it’s hard because you’ve got AP who you just signed to a huge contract and is getting older. Though, I personally think he’ll be effective longer than RB’s typically are. I don’t think the NFL has really ever seen a RB like him before. He’s a freak of nature.
But I could see how the Vikings FO could think signing a FA WR would be worth it too. With Peterson, it makes it a lot easier to have a successful passing game. And if they’re able to get a top LT, and find an OC/OG in the draft that can play decently (both if’s obviously), I don’t think it’s out there to assume that the offense could be pretty good.
The problem to me is the defense. Cook getting in trouble really messes things up. If he’s there, along with Allen, Williams, and Greenway and they can find a decent CB in the draft, I could see where they’d think it’d be worth signing a safety like Griffin. Because they’ve got pretty good DL depth, and can generate a pass rush. They just haven’t got the guys on the back end.
I think it’s kind of a dilemma. If you decide to go into full on rebuilding mode, then you’re essentially just wasting Peterson. And if you decide to sign some FA’s and it doesn’t work out, then it appears as if you’re just trying to find some quick fixes. And if those FA’s don’t work out, then you’re essentially just throwing money down the drain. I personally think they’ve gotta try and sign some young FA’s that they think can be part of the future core, and not just sign a guy simply because he’s the best guy left at the position. While also trying to stockpile some picks, and infusing the roster with more young guys.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Nov 19, 2011 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
Looking at the list of free agents
The only ones I would consider signing are DeSean Jackson, Steve Johnson and Tracy Porter, simply based on how old they are. I think any FA over 26-27 is a no go for us. We need to get younger.
Really hoping we can snap the trend of us drafting like retarded monkeys throwing darts at a dart board in rounds 3-7.
Really need an edit button
Colston would be a good target until he’s over the hump provided we actually plan ahead and put some rookie depth behind him to develop
DeSean
I would not touch him with a ten foot pole, he’s not a #1, he’s basically Percy 2.0. He has all of Percy’s strenghts, versatile, quick, special teams animal if you let him return punts and kicks but also has the same weaknesses like durability, size andplus his attitude looks pretty bad. Can you imagine how he’s going to be when he gets paid?
What? Their styles of play differ so much that they might as well be playing different positions.
"Let's go our there, and stick our fists through their ribcages, rip our their hearts, eat them, and shit them back out on the field!!" - Blue Mountain State
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Nov 18, 2011 1:11 PM CST up reply actions
Free Agents
If we sign any of those free agent receivers + Grimes I think we’ll be on the right track. Draft a LT and some more secondary help and I think we can be close to contending again.
Boom Goes the Dynamite
On offense anyway...
I truly believe our offense is just a few players (and a developed QB) away from being great. With a good free agent pickup and draft, our offense can be in great shape.
It’s the defense I’m worried about, and it’s interesting to me that just 2 years ago, our defense was our biggest strength. What the hell happened? Oh yeah, we let some guys walk, didn’t draft well, and got hit with the injury bug: a triple whammy. That, and maybe our coaches aren’t as good as we thought.
Anyway, I agree with you on offense, but I’m not sure we can solve our defensive issues, especially in the secondary after only 1 year of drafting and free agent pickups. It’s gonna take a couple years of solid drafting and free agent finds to turn this defense around. We’ve been allowing too many points and not winning the turnover battle this season. Sure, Jared Allen is getting his sacks, but that aint enough.
SKOL Vikings!
I think I'd rather take a DT in round 2 or 3 than free agency
and use the 4th round draft pick you have slated for NT for a defensive back.
The only place I think we should look to get a free agent for a starting spot is WR, though I think there are a few DBs in contract years that could be worth it, too.
Right
If we’re drafting a NT as a starter, then it has to be an earlier round. I guess I’d rather see us address OL and DBs with their high draft picks. That said, there’s not that many elite DT available via free agency so maybe this makes more sense. If you go with a rd 2 DT, then I think you pretty much have to go with a free agent CB if you’re looking for a starter for next year. I’m basically assuming that starters will only come from rounds 1-2 in the draft (you have to get pretty lucky for a rd 3 to be starter material), and the rest will have to come via free agency. Based on the quality available in the free agent market at WR and CB, maybe we should go OL and DL with our 1 and 2 picks next year. I could definitely see that. But, I still think our biggest need after LT is in the secondary.
SKOL Vikings!
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