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So... I just joined this site a couple of days ago.  I've been a long time reader (3 years) though since it really is the greatest I've ever seen about the Vikings.  It's kind of odd that I would choose this particular subject for my first post instead of something more along the lines of how much I love the Vikes and things of that sort.  But anyways here goes...

With as much felating (is that even the correct context of that word?) that Aaron Rodgers gets due to his unbelievable year so far, are they giving the credit to the correct area of his game?  As we all know, the media and pundits around the country attribute his success to the fact that he is just plain and simple the best to play the game right now.  And I agree that right now he is unreal.  But how much is him, and how much is everything else around him?

I'm not here to start anything with Packer fans (it is a Vikings site though), but I have a theory that the reason he's playing out of his mind is not due to him being the best qb in the NFL (he's close, but not quite), but rather because of familiarity.  While I was watching the debacle on Monday night, I heard something in between the periods of muting my tv that gave me a thought.  I think it was Gruden who said that Rodgers has been playing with the same receivers for 4 years.

I suppose what I'm asking is...  Do you think he would be as good with receivers that he didn't know as well?  Or do you think his receivers would be as good without him as qb?  Honestly I think the answer is no to both.  I'm not saying I wouldn't take him as a qb in a heartbeat, because I would.  I just think the fact that he knows them and has played for so long with them makes it easier to just play catch.

Thanks for reading my post.  Hopefully it leads to some discussion.  I don't think it really matters whether he's had the same guys around him, the end results are what they are.  I'm just trying to see if anyone else has thought about it and start a debate.  Also does anyone think that if Ponder can get the same familiarity with his guys (plus a true #1 receiver), can he end up in the same position?  I think so... but time will tell.

Thanks

This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.

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That is probably a big part of it.

Rodgers is also fantastic at reading coverage but he does seem to know everything his recievers can do.

"Winning isn't everything but losing is nothing" - Ace Bricka coach of the Galaxy Aces

by FFXVIKE on Nov 18, 2011 9:03 AM CST reply actions  

Yep

Rodgers and his recievers are always on the same page. Even when Rodgers does something creative like throw a backshoulder pass to a reciever 20 yards down the field. His reciever always gets free of his man and goes back to get it. I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone use the backshoulder pass as much as he does.

"Let's go our there, and stick our fists through their ribcages, rip our their hearts, eat them, and shit them back out on the field!!" - Blue Mountain State

by Alittlemore_cowbell on Nov 18, 2011 9:23 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Yeah

I also heard on the commentary between the slurps and the swallowing that Finley has gotten so used to Rodgers that he can catch the ball with his back turned and not looking for it. He can see where the ball is by looking at the shadow of the ball on the ground and he knows how hard Rodgers throws it and with how much touch. I wish our guys had that kind of chemistry. Someday maybe.

"I bang sloots off the field, and I bang dudes on the field."
"I don't give a sh!t what your name is, as long as your initials are DTF."
Thad Castle

by HueGKoch on Nov 18, 2011 10:01 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm curious

Isnt that part of what makes a qb great? Who do you think the best is right now? Not that I disagree with you, I’m just curious.

by jayj55405 on Nov 18, 2011 9:36 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

Not that I'm happy about it...

Tom Brady. Has he had the best year he’s ever had this year? No… But look at what he’s done year in and year out with different go to guys. I mean look at all the turnover he’s had to deal with in his time with New England. On that I think he’s the best in the NFL. But Rodgers is playing out of his mind right now. Also yes I do believe that is a contributing factor to a qb being great. I guess what I’m really trying to do is just figure out what makes him so good. I think about weird little things like that all the time.

"I bang sloots off the field, and I bang dudes on the field."
"I don't give a sh!t what your name is, as long as your initials are DTF."
Thad Castle

by HueGKoch on Nov 18, 2011 9:56 AM CST up reply actions  

He might have turnover at the receiver position but he hasn’t had much turnover on his OL and he’s had Belicheck to create great system after great system for him. He consistently has 5+ seconds to sit in the pocket and wait for someone to break open.

I don’t either he or Rodgers is the best. Personally, I’d say it’s Manning hands down. This season is showing just how much he is to that team. Without him sustaining long drives that defense is totally useless and their offense can’t do anything.

Fire Slocum

by packallday555 on Nov 18, 2011 11:44 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree as well. I just didn’t put him in there because of his sitch right now.

"I bang sloots off the field, and I bang dudes on the field."
"I don't give a sh!t what your name is, as long as your initials are DTF."
Thad Castle

by HueGKoch on Nov 18, 2011 3:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Peyton is way better than Brady.

He’s been better for more years with worse teams and more turnover.

"Winning isn't everything but losing is nothing" - Ace Bricka coach of the Galaxy Aces

by FFXVIKE on Nov 18, 2011 12:23 PM CST up reply actions  

I wouldn't go so far as to say WAY better

Brady has only had one WR in the same class as Wayne and Harrison, and that only lasted 3 seasons. Welker is very good, but not in the same class as Harrison, Wayne or Moss. Petyon had Harrison from day one and then also benefited from the drafting of Dallas Clark and Reggie Wayne. Pierre Garcon is no slouch either. Anthony GOnzales has been a disspointment, but you get my point. Also the Patriots have had A LOT of turnover. Especially on the defensive side of the ball. Brady has had a revolving door of receivers and running backs throughout his career. Manning had 2 pretty good backs in Marshall Faulk and Edgerrin James.

I know people will point to how well the Patriots did the year Brady went down and compare it to the year the colts are having right now, but I would caution those comparisons as well. The Patriots in 2008 were much better than the Colts are today. I know the absence of Manning is a BIG part of that reason, but I would bet that the Colts would be struggling (compared to how they have been the last few years) even with Manning, they are just that bad.

"God always comes first, then grades, (and lastly) football." 11-year old phenom Demias Jimerson on his reaction to being told that he cannot score more than 2 TD's per game in his Arkansas Pee-Wee football league.

by NMVike on Nov 18, 2011 1:17 PM CST up reply actions  

I know the absence of Manning is a BIG part of that reason, but I would bet that the Colts would be struggling (compared to how they have been the last few years) even with Manning, they are just that bad.

I don’t know they had pretty much the same team last season only they didn’t have Castanzo or Iljuiana, and Collie, Garcon, and Clark were all hurt quite a bit.

Last season seemed like worst case scenario and Manning struggled a bit for his standards but he still led them to 11 wins and the playoffs.

This season, the Colts have actually had a bit of a running game and you’d have to think having some of those receivers back would only help Manning. My guess is they’d probably have around 10 wins and make the playoffs if Manning were playing. He’s their whole offense and has been for a while now.

Fire Slocum

by packallday555 on Nov 18, 2011 7:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Brady plays in the cold/outdoors

and Mannings Colts often choke in the PO’s!

With that said. I think Manning and Brady are pretty equal. Both are amazing QB’s!
Both Manning and Brady come from smart coaching and have good/great Olines protecting them.
IMO, both QB’s would struggle behind the Vikings Oline!

by chaosg on Nov 18, 2011 3:26 PM CST up reply actions  

..have good/great Olines protecting them.

Manning hasn’t had one of those in 2-3 years and he’s still been as successful. He’s got such a quick release that it almost doesn’t matter.

Fire Slocum

by packallday555 on Nov 18, 2011 6:23 PM CST up reply actions  

What packallday said.

Just look at Charlie Johnson. Manning made him look, at the very least, like a serviceable Left Tackle and then he comes here… and well, we all know how that’s going.

by SirGrizzly on Nov 18, 2011 9:07 PM CST up reply actions  

I suppose Manning could be a bigger part to the Colts success than Brady is to the Pats!

He is the face of the Colts franchise, Especially w/out the leadership of Dungy.
Whereas BB is the face of the Pats….But that doesn’t exactly mean that Manning is the better QB. Take BB and Brady away from the Pats and I bet they collapse too.

I don’t think C. Johnson was meant to be anything more than a utility back-up lineman.
He was a 6th-rd pick, and the Colts moved him around as needed.
The Colts were slightly forced to start Johnson due to their normal LT retiring earlier than expected.
C.Painter was also a late round pick that was probably meant to be nothing more than a back up.

by chaosg on Nov 18, 2011 10:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Welcome to the DN

We’ve been waiting…

"Let's go our there, and stick our fists through their ribcages, rip our their hearts, eat them, and shit them back out on the field!!" - Blue Mountain State

by Alittlemore_cowbell on Nov 18, 2011 9:42 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

Thanks!

I gotta say that I’m glad that someone on here likes BMS enough to quote it. One of the funniest shows I’ve ever seen…

"I bang sloots off the field, and I bang dudes on the field."
"I don't give a sh!t what your name is, as long as your initials are DTF."
Thad Castle

by HueGKoch on Nov 18, 2011 9:58 AM CST up reply actions  

I think it has something to do with it for sure.

Part of it is he knows if he can throw the ball in a certain area he’s 85% positive his guy will catch it, which leads to him making some throws that other QB’s would shy away from and succeeding at them.

I would like to say this though getting beaten a bajillion to 7 was pretty bad but letting the Pack pick up two fourth down conversions was down right nauseating… I mean c’mon Vikes make them at least think about punting.

The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.

by Grime on Nov 18, 2011 10:06 AM CST reply actions  

As much as I hate the fellating and the pro-Pack mentality of media and officials...

I remember admiring Rodgers for not only not snapping on Jones last year for dropping an important and simple catch…but throwing again to him with full confidence. The guy deserves credit for leadership. Son of a bitch!!!

An actor famous for playing negative roles in movies was once asked how he felt about women/girls being afraid of approaching him in real life. He said it was the biggest compliment for his work…I HATE AARON RODGERS….for being so damn good at what he does.

PS. I think it was Jones…well one of them..can catch the ball without looking at it receivers if Rodgers has thrown it guys!

by izziefans on Nov 18, 2011 11:04 AM CST reply actions  

Did Montana make Rice or Rice make Montana?

In the end this is the sort of question that you are asking and it’s a difficult one to answer. I would say no because each had pretty good careers without the other (Montana winning a SB before Rice arrived and Rice going to one with a different team after Montana retired) but they definitely helped one another.

Personally I don’t think familiarity alone is what makes Rodgers great. After all, Manning had that level of familiarity with Harrison, Wayne, and Clark for a few years down in Indy, but I’m not sure they were able to do some of the things that Rodger & Co. are able to do now. Back in the 80’s and 90’s it was common place to have a QB and WR play together for years and they didn’t have the same success either.

Really if we really want to dissect the Packers offense and Rodgers in particular you’re going to find lots of little things that have come together in a dynamic fashion. Rodgers ended up with a head coach that is very good at developing players….and obsessed with developing QB’s. So he would gather his QB’s together for a couple weeks in the offseason and go over reads, decision making, and throwing techniques (all those things you often hear Rodgers does so well) and drill them over and over again for eight hours a day. Rodgers was doing all of this while Favre was still on the team and didn’t change when he took over as starter.

Then you have the receiving corp which have had good coaching as well as a selfless mentor in Driver. All of them are fairly skilled. They have all basically come up together and share some similar understanding. Heck, the biggest knucklehead of the bunch is Finley and he just has a big mouth.

Then there is Rodgers by himself. He’s taken all these opportunities and put a Payton Manning like work ethic into honing all these opportunities into something special.

Would the whole be the same without any of these elements? I don’t know, probably not actually. Does any of it take away from what Rodgers has been able to do? I don’t think so either.

by PackApologist on Nov 18, 2011 11:09 AM CST reply actions  

I don't think we can fully make an informed decision on this....

until A.Rod has WR turnover like Manning has in the last few years.

Either way, what he does, whether familier or not is incredible and require a surreal amount of physical and mental talent. I really developed a huge respect for him when I watched how he has trained himself to not move his head….watch him in slow motion…only his eyes move until he makes the snap decision to throw. He’s good.

On a side not, I’m wondering if this is the latest incantation of Danny LL. back anew….???

Either way, welcome to the site.

I will not be PONDERing anything, ever again....I'm so tired of this pun. Maybe we could use antonyms to be different, like: "FORGET about last season, as we COGITATE about winning in 2011!"...Whatever, SKOL VIKES!!!

by J.RO on Nov 18, 2011 11:41 AM CST up reply actions  

Word

Rodgers is phenominal. Period. I just thought I would see what everyone else thought about it.

I assure you that I am a new guy though. :) And thanks for the welcome!

"I bang sloots off the field, and I bang dudes on the field."
"I don't give a sh!t what your name is, as long as your initials are DTF."
Thad Castle

by HueGKoch on Nov 18, 2011 3:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Chicken or the egg

I guess that pertains to this. You are absolutely right though. Everything comes together for the offense perfectly most of the time. Which is EXTREMELY frustrating. Especially since I absolutely hate the Packers with every fiber of my being. But I do respect the fact that Rodgers is unreal. Much like I respected Lorenzo when he was the Man.

"I bang sloots off the field, and I bang dudes on the field."
"I don't give a sh!t what your name is, as long as your initials are DTF."
Thad Castle

by HueGKoch on Nov 18, 2011 3:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Interesting question/theory

receivers always make QB’s look good, but QB’s return the favor. Look at Sidney Rice and Favre in 2009. DC was helped tremendously by having Moss and CC early in his career, and when Moss left, DC was awful in 2005 before he got hurt.

Some people just need a high five. In the face. With a chair.

The Daily Norseman
Off Tackle Empire

by Ted Glover on Nov 18, 2011 11:40 AM CST reply actions  

If I was starting a new team and could pick any player off any roster to fill it...

…my first pick would be Aaron Rodgers. Put Aaron into our system, and I think we’d be a 12 win team this year – despite all of our big, big problems (okay maybe 10 wins). Anyway, he’s amazing. Even when he first came out and started playing he was very good. He had a tendency to hold onto the ball a bit long and took a bunch of sacks as a result. Now he’s just deadly from everywhere… and he’s young. Cr@p!!! This division is going to be tough to win for a long, long time.

"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin

by kcskol on Nov 18, 2011 1:09 PM CST reply actions  

I believe the Wr have more to do with Erin's success

Than most will admit.
I will give Erin this, he is very accurate. But that is where it ends for me.
GB’s WR corps is one of the best groups I have seen. Those guys are wide open 99% of the time. It will be very interesting to see how Erin does once there is some turnover on that team

"I think they see I'm white and they think I'm slow"
Christian Ponder

by angryguy77 on Nov 18, 2011 1:20 PM CST reply actions  

They're not always open

Rodgers seems to put it in the perfect location for his wideouts 90% of the time

☠★☪Creator of http://skolnation.co.cc and dedicated DN reader.

by UnBannedVikingholic on Nov 18, 2011 1:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Erin huh? Haha.

I’m not sure I’d say 99% of the time. There are a lot of occasions where Rodgers will throw his receivers open. The first third down conversion to Driver along the sidelines and that throw to Finley that converted in 4th down come to mind.

A lot of it is that he just makes good decisions. He always seem to know where the open guy is going to be and doesn’t force many balls.

Fire Slocum

by packallday555 on Nov 18, 2011 7:33 PM CST up reply actions  

And just for the record, you do realize that there’s actually an Erin on the Vikings right? Haha.

Fire Slocum

by packallday555 on Nov 18, 2011 9:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah,

Maybe we should call him Aaron ; )

"Let's go our there, and stick our fists through their ribcages, rip our their hearts, eat them, and shit them back out on the field!!" - Blue Mountain State

by Alittlemore_cowbell on Nov 18, 2011 11:00 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

For a new member...

…you’ve certainly managed to choose a name worthy of a veteran contributor. :-)

Welcome.

And by the way, the only rule around here is don’t be a prick. Actually, like all sites, we probably have bunch of those. So scratch that. The standard must be don’t be a BIG prick. Hmm. Now that I’m thinking about it that may not be it either. Okay. Well, I know for a fact that if a person is a HUGE prick, then they WILL get themselves banned. Consider that when you’re thinking of explaining to us how Koch is pronouced. :-)

"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin

by kcskol on Nov 18, 2011 1:25 PM CST reply actions  

The "r" is silent.

Welcome Mr Koch. Well written story. I personally detest Mr. Rodgers but there is no way around it – he is good. He is at the level of where I suspect he could make even a mediocre team pretty good. Is he to his team what Payton Manning is to his team? I’m not sure. I think the Pack has quite a bit better of a roster up and down the line. But his loss (I am not wishing that under any circumstance) would likely doom the Packers Super Bowl bid any way.

"I saw a wino eating grapes and I was like, dude, you have to wait!" - Mitch Hedberg

by abba7 on Nov 18, 2011 2:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks

You are one of the guys I like to read to be honest. Very insightful most of the time from what I see. I agree with everyone the Peyton is better than Brady, I didn’t include him because of his status at the moment though.

"I bang sloots off the field, and I bang dudes on the field."
"I don't give a sh!t what your name is, as long as your initials are DTF."
Thad Castle

by HueGKoch on Nov 18, 2011 3:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Wow you like to read abba7?

Man I kinda respected you more before you admitted that…

The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.

by Grime on Nov 18, 2011 3:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Hey buster!

I was voted commenter of the week twice on Nickelodeon.com so shut up.

"I saw a wino eating grapes and I was like, dude, you have to wait!" - Mitch Hedberg

by abba7 on Nov 18, 2011 4:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Color me red with jealousy.

:-)

"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin

by kcskol on Nov 18, 2011 5:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, one of them

There’s a few posters on here that are funny to read some of their posts. I’m sarcastic and I have a dry sense of humor sometimes. Those types of posts appeal to the inner cynic in me. Maybe that’s why I love this site so much. I guess being a Vikings fan automatically means you have to have a little bit of humor about you, even if it sounds like you’re reading the Magna Carta in you’re best Ben Stein impression…

"I bang sloots off the field, and I bang dudes on the field."
"I don't give a sh!t what your name is, as long as your initials are DTF."
Thad Castle

by HueGKoch on Nov 19, 2011 6:56 AM CST up reply actions  

To be honest though

I like to read most people on here… Everyone has a different opinion and a different way of trying to tell people about it. I like seeing different thoughts about things. IMO it’s a great way to expand the way you veiw the world… There’s my philosophical thought for the day… I think I’ll lie down for a minute, my head hurts.

"I bang sloots off the field, and I bang dudes on the field."
"I don't give a sh!t what your name is, as long as your initials are DTF."
Thad Castle

by HueGKoch on Nov 19, 2011 6:59 AM CST up reply actions  

Haha!

Don’t worry about me being an a-hole. I don’t like to rock the boat when it comes to posting on these things. I don’t like when someone comes on here blasting away at me so I don’t do it to others. Courtesy is all. Now that’s not to say that I won’t throw it back if push comes…

Thanks for admiring the name. I just thought it up one day when I needed a screen name for my playstation account. And since my last name happens to be Koch (actually pronounced Cook, but you can see how others percieve it) I decided to have a little fun with it. And then Ole Amy Koch had to go and ruin it for me.

"I bang sloots off the field, and I bang dudes on the field."
"I don't give a sh!t what your name is, as long as your initials are DTF."
Thad Castle

by HueGKoch on Nov 18, 2011 3:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Funny

And please don’t think I was actually telling you how to behave on here. That last paragraph was simply one big set up to the punchline…such as it was.

I’ve heard it pronounced Coke and Kotch but now I’ll add Cook. That name is going to drive my kindergartener nuts. She’s only just coming to terms with reading out loud “two” “to” and “too.”

"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin

by kcskol on Nov 18, 2011 5:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Not at all.

Just thought I would assure people that I don’t troll the waters around the Viking flagship…

"I bang sloots off the field, and I bang dudes on the field."
"I don't give a sh!t what your name is, as long as your initials are DTF."
Thad Castle

by HueGKoch on Nov 19, 2011 7:00 AM CST up reply actions  

To kind of expand on what Ted said a few comments ago

You would think familiar receivers would make a big difference, but then Brett Favre comes to the Vikings, and in his first season has the best passing year of his career, beating Rodgers and the Packers twice.

The only thing you can say at that point is “go figure”.

Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted. - John Lennon

by JethroBoViking on Nov 18, 2011 2:33 PM CST reply actions  

it probably was the coaching...

or the fact that until the very end Favre could back off the blitz and keep AD running. Was a good team. Alas the good times help us get past the bad, and the bad help us treasure the good..

The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.

by Grime on Nov 18, 2011 3:43 PM CST up reply actions  

You need to make those into a daily affirmation calendar...

I’d buy it, but I only need it to last another month and a half. This has been a tough season, and I could use some perspective and philosophical grounding.

"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin

by kcskol on Nov 18, 2011 8:07 PM CST up reply actions  

In the end

Our division being so Hard to win just means when we do we know we will most likely be successful in the playoffs. Better than being in the afc west

by jayj55405 on Nov 18, 2011 3:50 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

I think the familiarity with the receivers certainly plays a role

But then, you can also look at his relationship with Randall Cobb this year. Cobb’s a rookie WR who didn’t get the typical off-season to work with the team and Rodgers, and as such, you can see a little sloppiness when he plays. In the opener, Cobb simply ran the wrong route on a play……and Rodgers hit him in stride, and Cobb took it to the endzone. He did the same thing with Finley in a later game, where Finley thought it was a running play and blocked a man for a good three seconds, before realizing it was really a pass and ran into the endzone, where Rodgers hit him for a touchdown.

That, instead of familiarity with the receivers/system, is what makes him the best right now in my eyes. His ability to read the entire field and make the correct decision 99% of the time, no matter what is going on around him. It doesn’t matter if the defense is bringing a blitz/dropping into a coverage that he never saw in film study, and it doesn’t matter if the receiver isn’t doing what he’s supposed to be doing — Rodgers will still make the correct play…..and drill the ball into a tiny window.

Angelo: Right….so anyways Jay, I’m sure you understand that we needed to make this move and I wanna wish you the best of luck.

Cutler: (Swoops bangs out of eyes by throwing his head back) Whatever, I don’t need this team or you.
/Leaves in a huff
//Writes bad poetry on his blog

Grossman: What the fuck is Wilford Brimley’s problem?

by Packers3485 on Nov 19, 2011 2:55 AM CST reply actions  

Right now Rodgers is the best

What separates him from Manning and Brady is his ability to avoid the pass rush and throw on the run, and accurate at that. He has the advantage this year in the fact that there was a shortened offseason and he already had chemistry with not only the WR’s but the whole offense. He knows the system inside and out, and to me that is the biggest factor, (see Favre 2009), in why he is dominating the league the way he is.

by nmvikesfan on Nov 19, 2011 2:59 PM CST reply actions  

yeah i do..
i also believe that if Carson Palmer was a RAIDER before the season started we would have went 6-0 instead of being 4-2 when he actually joined the team out of retirement..

"THE TIME TO WIN IS NOW" - Coach Hue Jackson

Raider Nation, all hand's on deck or get the hell off the ship! That's the way it's gonna be around here from now on! If a 7th & 5th round pick gets you Aaron Curry (a former 4th overall 1st rd. pick) instead of a couple of crap-shoots a year later, then fine and if dealing away a couple of first rounder's gets you a proven franchise quarterback like Carson Palmer and a legitimate shot at the playoffs, then great, you know why? Because our team is standing behind it's motto & legacy, "Just Win Baby!" and "Commitment to Excellence" instead of "Suck for Luck" and "Give Up". Imagine if you were a fan of a team that actually bought into that!?!

Cheers,

- Saint

http://sportsnspacetalk.freeforums.org/

by The MoonMan 804 on Nov 19, 2011 6:40 PM CST reply actions  

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