Vikings Continue To Fight The Good Fight. . .And Continue To Lose

by Christopher Gates on Nov 27, 2011 5:48 PM CST in Minnesota Vikings 2011 Season

Ladies and gentlemen, the 2011 Minnesota Vikings' season in a nutshell.

104 yards worth of kick return. . .zero points. Yeah, that pretty much sums it up.

Once again, it would have been really easy for this team to throw in the towel at halftime of this game, but they did not. They came out and put together a couple of very successful second half scoring drives (sans the best running back in the National Football League), and they played very good defense in the second half, too. It's not even that the defense in the first half was really all that bad. . .the Falcons simply held on to the ball for huge chunks of time, and the offense didn't do a whole lot in the first half.

The Vikings went into this one without Adrian Peterson, without Kyle Rudolph, and without Husain Abdullah. By the time the first half was over, they were also without Asher Allen and Tyrell Johnson. Even long snapper Cullen Loeffler wasn't safe, for crying out loud. But it didn't make any difference. The Vikings continued to battle until the final gun with what they had available. The Atlanta Falcons are a good football team, and got off to a huge early lead in front of their home crowd (although it didn't appear it was much of a crowd, from what I could ascertain from the broadcast), which would usually be a recipe for disaster. But say what you will about Leslie Frazier and his shortcomings as a first-year head coach. . .and there are a couple of things that need to be questioned. . .but this team plays their asses off for the man.

I'm not going to spend a lot of time killing Frazier or Bill Musgrave or Fred Pagac at this point. In his first full season, Frazier's record currently sits at 2-9, at least partially because he's presiding over one of the few true "blow everything up and start over" scenarios that the Vikings have had in their history. In Bud Grant's first season as the Vikings' head coach, he had a record of 3-8-3. In Jimmy Johnson's first season as the head coach of the Dallas Cowboys, his team went 1-15. In five seasons as the head coach of the Cleveland Browns, Bill Belichick had exactly one winning season and ~~zero~~ one playoff wins. (Thanks for the heads-up on that, folks.)

This team needs players, ladies and gentlemen. It's as simple as that. Yes, Percy Harvin and Adrian Peterson and Jared Allen and Kevin Williams and so on are nice to have on the team, but that accounts for four of the 22 starting spots on an NFL team, to say nothing of the depth behind them. This team simply needs more talent and more time.

Oh, and while I'm at it. . .if you watched today's game and are still under the impression that Christian Ponder doesn't have what it takes to be a very good (if not great) NFL quarterback, then I'm going to put this as flatly and politely as I can.

You're an idiot.

Playing behind what might be the worst offensive line in the league and without a whole lot of talent in the receiving corps outside of Harvin, Ponder played with poise and confidence way, way beyond his years. He has the mobility, the accuracy, the touch. . .and a short memory, coming back from his three-interception performance against Oakland to putting together what might have been his best performance as a starting quarterback in the NFL. Just like Frazier, Ponder is going to need some time, and I'm glad that he's getting that time now rather than wasting away on the bench. But at least you know the potential is there, and you'd have to be pretty thick in the head to attempt to deny it.

It's all about time, folks. It's running short for this season, to be sure, but like I said. . .most of us have never been through a complete team reboot before. Is it going to hurt? Yeah, it is. . .hell, it hurts already. But if the effort this team continues to put forth despite being outmanned and outgunned is any indication, I think we're going to like the results when it's all said and done.

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I feel like...

There’s enough promise in the new offense that a full camp next year might put us in a good place. Bring on 2012.

by McCoubs on Nov 27, 2011 5:58 PM CST via mobile reply actions

Theres promise just not enough talent

They have what would be backups in the starting role and if can get some diamonds in the rough can be a huge boost. Ponder however, looked great this game. Perfect bomb to Harvin.

by PurplePrideforLife! on Nov 27, 2011 6:00 PM CST reply actions

Well, as it stands now

With the results of today’s games, we’re all by ourselves in the race for the #2 overall draft pick. That’s Matt Kalil territory.

Kalil at LT, slide Charlie Johnson to one of the guard spots, and a WR like Vincent Jackson or Dwayne Bowe in free agency, and this offense would improve in a hurry.

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by Christopher Gates on Nov 27, 2011 6:04 PM CST up reply actions

Not so fast

St Louis needs to win one more game. By the looks of it, they may not.

by Murgo on Nov 27, 2011 6:10 PM CST up reply actions

Crap, you're right

I thought St. Louis won today. . .my bad.

They’d be competition for Kalil, too, even though they just took a tackle high in the draft a couple of years ago.

by Christopher Gates on Nov 27, 2011 6:14 PM CST up reply actions

Rams line

They drafted Jason Smith second overall in ‘09 and are paying him $33 mil guaranteed over 6 years ($61 mil total). He was drafted as a LT but was moved to RT after he was beat out by Roger Saffold, a 2nd rounder in ’10. Saffold made a lot of AP All-Rookie teams.
I just did a little research to figure this out. I haven’t seen the Rams all year who I know were ravaged by injury so I’m not really sure where their problems lie. I see it unlikely that they take another OT with the second overall pick while still owing Smith quite a bit of money, but again I don’t know enough about the Rams to speculate too much about what their needs are.
I do know that I would love to see Kalil holding up that purple jersey come draft day though.

by Rycraft on Nov 27, 2011 6:35 PM CST up reply actions

USC’s Matt Barkley was brilliant again this weekend (and that’s his final performance for the year, so if he declares that’s what’ll be fresh). I think teams will consider him and Luck potential franchise QBs this year, possibly along with RGIII of Baylor. So, if Kalil’s off the board (or perhaps even if he isn’t), I think the Vikings might have some nice trade offers to consider for their pick as teams will try to move above teams such as Washington. (Assuming there isn’t a regime change and the Vikings don’t consider QB.)

Cleveland has two firsts. Or Seattle has an awfully great young safety by the name of Earl Thomas I’d love to see in purple that they could pair with their first pick. I hope they get a good hand, and I hope they then play their cards right.

Of course, same thing goes for any teams that might end up above Minnesota. As you note, the Rams have invested a lot into the line recently and may prefer to look for WRs. If they’re #2, trading down maybe makes sense for them, too.

I know PA on KFAN has been on the Justin Blackmon bandwagon. To me, he’s only an option if they end up picking around 5th or lower. If they’re on the clock with Kalil or one of the QBs available, I think that pick is better used to shore up the signature spot on the line or to trade for more draft picks.

by jianfu on Nov 27, 2011 8:42 PM CST up reply actions

WR for Rams

Is kind of what I was thinking too. They have Lloyd, but he will be a free agent after this season and then there’s Amendola (sp?) who went out with a season ending injury (although he is more of a #2) so they may look for more weapons for Bradford to utilize.

Miami, Washington, Seattle, and potentially Cleveland and Denver may all be interested in a QB which would leave the Vikings in a great situation to trade down and pick up some bonus 2nd or 3rd rounders.

I see the Vikes and potentially Carolina in the market for O-lineman early on so I think we have a good shot and at picking up a solid OT. I really hope we do not draft a WR in the 1st. This will do us zero good if Ponder doesn’t have time to throw to him. Not to mention, as has been discussed here already, there really isn’t an AJ Green or Julio Jones in this draft. We could easily pick up something of value in the 2nd or 3rd, especially if we trade down a bit with a QB needy team.

Eitherway, I’m excited for the future with Ponder. GO VIKES

by Rycraft on Nov 27, 2011 9:39 PM CST up reply actions

Carolina won't go OT they have two highly paid OT's right now

They need defense and they like Coples at DE. The team we need to worry about is Jacksonville they need O-line help just as bad as us, sure they need WR’s worse than us but I think they take Kalil if he’s on the board and they’re drafting ahead of us.

by nmvikesfan on Nov 27, 2011 11:57 PM CST up reply actions

Who does St.Louis have in December

by Curtis2012 on Nov 27, 2011 6:19 PM CST up reply actions

No easy wins

SF x2, Cincy, Pitt, and Seattle. Seattle is our only hope and it is in Seattle. Not looking good.

by Murgo on Nov 27, 2011 6:25 PM CST up reply actions

San Fran might have everything they can get wrapped up (Division and 1st round bye)

they might be resting their

by Curtis2012 on Nov 27, 2011 6:29 PM CST up reply actions

*Starters

by Curtis2012 on Nov 27, 2011 6:29 PM CST up reply actions

If Tavaris manages to beat us,

“PACEPALM!”

by abba7 on Nov 27, 2011 6:34 PM CST up reply actions

or facepalm - whatever!

by abba7 on Nov 27, 2011 6:37 PM CST up reply actions

Lol

Understood.

by Murgo on Nov 27, 2011 6:42 PM CST up reply actions

Rolf Benirschke missed

so the Tebows have a chance!

by abba7 on Nov 27, 2011 6:45 PM CST up reply actions

Here's some news...

by Murgo on Nov 27, 2011 10:08 PM CST up reply actions

Let's try that again...

Want to know how close it is between the #Rams and #Vikings for No. 2 overall? #Vikings (100-75), Rams (100-74) opponents W/L. With that said, if the #Giants wins tomorrow night, #Rams hold the No. 2 pick. If the #Saints win, it’s a tie, which would force a coin flip

@ShawnZobel_DHQ

http://twitter.com/#!/ShawnZobel_DHQ

by Murgo on Nov 27, 2011 10:10 PM CST up reply actions

That's insane.

by Purpledork on Nov 27, 2011 11:06 PM CST up reply actions

Washington beat Seattle

that’s making my confidence for that Christmas Eve game go down a bit.

by Curtis2012 on Nov 27, 2011 6:32 PM CST reply actions

If Ponder had the amount of time

That Tebow is getting in the pocket or behind the line tonight he would be a bazillion times better…

by liveforadrenaline on Nov 27, 2011 6:33 PM CST reply actions

Yeah, Ponder has time to look to his 1st target, maybe 2nd

Then he’s running for his life.

by Purpledork on Nov 27, 2011 6:43 PM CST up reply actions

Denver's line

Underrated for years. When Cutler was there, he had forever and looked great, then he went to Chicago with no line and turned the ball over caus he was runnin for his life all game.

Imagine what AP could do with a line that opens holes for him as well.

by sabbath999 on Nov 28, 2011 12:16 AM CST up reply actions

Showing promise

You are on target Mr. Gates. Frazier and his staff will have the off season this year along with several very high draft roung picks and hopefully some free agent action. The OTAs and other off season work for Ponder, especially if Spielman can find a solid free agent receiver will give us (fans) hope.

by TexasViking on Nov 27, 2011 6:44 PM CST reply actions

Man...

The Broncos have a lot of talent on defense… and more luck than any team this year on offense.

by Crosseyes on Nov 27, 2011 6:51 PM CST reply actions

I think it's all me.

I really dislike Tebow, so I’ve picked them to lose every single game since he started starting. Dude just does not deserve wins when he completes 2 passes in a game.

by Purpledork on Nov 27, 2011 6:56 PM CST up reply actions

Who said this:

“JUST WIN BABY!”?

by abba7 on Nov 27, 2011 6:59 PM CST up reply actions

Missed the threads yet again due to being at the in-laws for Thanksgiving

But I watched the first half and listened to the second. Four quick takeaways:

Ponder is an NFL quarterback. Will he be great? The jury’s still out. But he definitely belongs.
Outstanding game by the special teams unit; we would have lost by 20+ without them.
Is there anything Jared Allen can’t do?
Is there anything this offensive line can do besides allow untouched rushers to the quarterback and commit drive-killing penalties?

Once again, the positives outweigh the negatives. Like Chris alluded to, this team is top-heavy to say the least. After the stars, there’s almost nothing redeemable about this team.

And don’t look now, but here comes Tebowmania.

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by Eric J. Thompson on Nov 27, 2011 7:02 PM CST reply actions

"Ground control to coaching staff........."

“the defense played better when Allen and Johnson went OUT!!!!!!” "

by Mel Allen on Nov 27, 2011 7:05 PM CST reply actions

Not so fast..........

Sapp was horrible in coverage, he got caught peeking and burned on double moves. He did have one really good pass defense in the end zone but he not only gave up a touchdown and several first down completions he also missed tackles.

by nmvikesfan on Nov 27, 2011 9:23 PM CST up reply actions

Chris, not to nitpick or anything

(though I’m going to anyway), Belichick had one playoff win with the Browns, back in ’94 against… the Pats (I remember as a 10 year-old watching that game with my grandfather who was a die-hard Browns fan and never forgave them for moving to Baltimore).

Christian Ponder: Super Bowl 50 MVP for the Minnesota Vikings

by Td1984 on Nov 27, 2011 7:24 PM CST reply actions

My bad, then

I didn’t think he had any. I knew he went 11-5 one year, but I wasn’t sure if they got a playoff win that year or not.

I’ll correct it here.

by Christopher Gates on Nov 27, 2011 8:41 PM CST up reply actions

Sack record?!

Did JA getta sack today??? I couldn’t watch. :(

by AP's Future Replacement on Nov 27, 2011 8:09 PM CST via mobile reply actions

Nope

But Everson Griffen and K Will got one each.

by Bodysuit Man on Nov 27, 2011 8:12 PM CST up reply actions

2 straight games

Without a sack… This is a streak I don’t like.

by AP's Future Replacement on Nov 27, 2011 9:16 PM CST via mobile up reply actions

He was double and triple teamed today on pass plays

Atlanta was running the ball on us well so there was not a lot of passing to begin with.

by nmvikesfan on Nov 27, 2011 9:27 PM CST up reply actions

B Rob

I was hoping he could take away some of those doubles.. and he was doing well earlier in the year.

by AP's Future Replacement on Nov 28, 2011 1:50 AM CST via mobile up reply actions

Needed 1

Needed 1 very good GM currently not on staff.
Zygi needs to talk to the TUNA and a few other NFL retired folks and get input to who might be good GM material. Maybe even have them in on the hiring process.
A team with this many holes is not only from going “all in” a year or two, but it is also
1) stiking out in the draft more than hitting for years
2) geeting dud players from other teams for picks and giving up good players from your team for nothing (See Moss & C & T for the Ravans)
3) having coaches that cannot coach players up when injuries happen

Seriously Zygi needs some OUTSIDE advice to help him hire a good GM

by ZygiZag on Nov 27, 2011 8:18 PM CST reply actions

P.S.

other than

and # 2 WR Center, Guards, Tackles on offense and
2 Tackels, Middle aned 2 outside linbackers, corners and safties on D’
we are set

by ZygiZag on Nov 27, 2011 8:24 PM CST up reply actions

Our last three drafts have not been that bad

Where we have failed is not drafting core players, ones you can build around;Ponder and Rudolph are a good start.

by nmvikesfan on Nov 27, 2011 9:32 PM CST up reply actions

1 good thing I saw today

Ponder threw the ball deep with some zip on it. (TD catch)
I had not seen that yet.

by ZygiZag on Nov 27, 2011 8:21 PM CST reply actions

Great game, guys

Sorry I didn’t get over here sooner, but Chris was classy enough to come by and put up a FanPost. I saw a football team with scary potential playing today, and I’m not eagerly anticipating the Falcons and Vikings meeting again after a quality off-season or two for Minny.

Good luck the rest of the way!

by Dave Choate on Nov 27, 2011 8:29 PM CST reply actions

You're right

Overall, but especially about Ponder.

by amiller92 on Nov 27, 2011 8:53 PM CST reply actions

The One (And Only) Question is....

This right here is the money line regarding the Minnesota Vikings:

“This team needs players, ladies and gentlemen. It’s as simple as that. Yes, Percy Harvin and Adrian Peterson and Jared Allen and Kevin Williams and so on are nice to have on the team, but that accounts for four of the 22 starting spots on an NFL team, to say nothing of the depth behind them. This team simply needs more talent and more time.”

The question is: Do the Vikings have the right front office personnel in place to make the correct decisions to draft well, bring in more talent, and ultimately build a great roster? I really don’t know. At this point, we all HOPE the answer is “yes.” And that’s scary.

by LMB on Nov 27, 2011 10:47 PM CST reply actions

You wanna blow up this turkey?

Okay, let’s drop this frosty tom in a tub of boiling oil.

I agree that this Vikings team is in dire need of a major talent upgrade. At 2-9, with little chance to win a third game, the Vikings may get the 3rd or 4th pick in the 2012 draft. Kalil may be gone by then to the Rams, but the Vikings need much more than a single great offensive lineman. They need most of a new line. They need two excellent WRs. They need two good CBs. They need at least one good LB.

The only way to get all that is with some radical horse trading.

First, you trade the high first rounder for a low first and a high second. Then, you trade Adrian Peterson to the Patriots for a first, second and third round pick.

Kaboom! Turkey partz everywhere, the garage is on fire!

The Peterson trade would make everybody happy. Peterson gets to play on a Super Bowl contender. The Pats suddenly become a top-tier team. Imagine Brady’s glee if a defense put 8 or 9 men in the box to stop AP. He’d pass for five hundred yards.If the defense loosens up, AP runs for 200 yards. With a better O-line, maybe he does, anyway.

Meanwhile, the Vikings collect enough pieces to field a new offensive line, get two good WRs, a couple good CBs, and maybe more if they draft well in the later rounds. We all miss AP, but with better talent up front, all the remaining running backs (Gerhart and King) look respectable, and Ponder gets more than two seconds in the pocket before he gets smeared. He also gets a couple talented new guys to throw the ball to, so Harvin can last a little longer.

I love AP in purple, but he’s never going to win a championship without a first rate offensive line, and that can’t happen in one draft. But with a few picks from New England, it might be possible to rebuild this team before Ponder gets destroyed. Heck, you could even spend all your picks on offense, and that would actually help the defense, because a healthy offense lets the defense stay fresh, and a higher score for our team means the defense can take more chances with blitzes and jumping routes.

The one thing they can’t do is stand pat with this offensive line. They just aren’t very good, and Hutchinson is getting old. A couple good tackles would allow Hutch to play better and allow LoadHold to move to guard, where his slow feet won’t matter quite so much. Ponder needs people to keep his jersey clean, then people to throw the ball to. The rest has to come second. Even keeping AP.

by jimbo55403 on Nov 28, 2011 12:07 AM CST reply actions

Nobody is going to give those kind of picks for AP

Be realistic… he will be entering his sixth year in the NFL next year, and that’s late middle age for running backs in this league. VERY few RB’s are around in their 30’s and AP will be 27 with 3-4 top seasons left in him most likely.

Walter Payton had an unusually long and successful career for the bears, and he played 12 years total. Chuck Forman, arguably the best Vikings back before AP, played 8 years. Emmitt Smith played 14 years but he was only “exceptional” (1200 or more yards per year) in 9 of the first 10 years, after that he was league average for a starter or worse. 1,000 yards in 16 games is only averaging 62 yards per game.

3-4 years of AP? Not worth what you think they are, especially since his stats have declined the last 3 years (yeah, I know the line has deteriorated, etc… but we are talking about value here).

by sabbath999 on Nov 28, 2011 12:38 AM CST up reply actions

Vikes wouldn't trade him

For three picks and only one first anyway.

by amiller92 on Nov 28, 2011 9:28 AM CST up reply actions

Not enough for AP

And you have a new hole to fill. AP is our only starter-quality RB.

Also, Loadholt will never play guard, where his slow feet will make him useless for pulling and his height will make passing over him difficult.

by amiller92 on Nov 28, 2011 9:27 AM CST up reply actions

how about moving loadholt to the other side of the ball?

he is a very good run blocker, when he gets to push instead of backpedal….maybe he could be moved to DT, where he gets to push every play…and he’s what, like 6’7" and 320+ lbs? teach him to get his arms up, he could knock down a lot of throws, and with that much girth, he should plug up a few running lanes…

by michiganpat on Nov 28, 2011 10:52 AM CST up reply actions

Normally I'd say

that a d-lineman needs more lateral agility and better upper body strength, and that guys on the o-line would rather be on the other side of the ball if they can cut it.

But in the land of fun things to think about on the internet, I could see him as a run-stopping nose.

But not in real life.

by amiller92 on Nov 28, 2011 12:01 PM CST up reply actions

Other teams get by with lesser running backs

Your argument against trading AP makes no sense in the context of an NFL which is lacking in great running backs. Toby Gerhart is every bit as good an RB as most that are starting in this league. Gerhart’s at least as good as anybody on Green Bay’s roster. So would be Caleb King, judging from his few carries in preseason.

These days, successful NFL teams pass to open up the run. The run-first team is mostly gone now, partly because it’s easier to distribute the ball to a bunch of smaller, faster guys than to field an offense that simply plows ahead. We already know that the Vikings can’t win by simply handing the ball to AP, because defenses respond with 8 and 9 guys in the box. Without a legit passing game, even the great AP can’t win the game for you.

Thus, in order to spread out the defense, you need good blockers and good receivers. To get those, you trade AP for high draft picks. Within a few years, you’ll be in about same position offensively as Green Bay. Even without AP, that would be a huge improvement.

Even great running backs have a limited shelf life. Peterson’s greatest value as trade bait is right now, while he’s still in his prime. Meanwhile, there is no way this Vikings squad will be able to improve its offensive line and wide receiver corps soon enough to take advantage of AP’s five or so remaining great years.

Obviously opinions vary on how much the Vikings can get for AP. Personally I wouldn’t give him up for anything less than a 1st, 2nd and 3rd round pick set. On the right team (Patriots), AP could easily boost them into a Super Bowl favorite. His value for that role is right now, not five years from now. That’s why the Pats might consider the high price tag – their RB situation is actually below average right now. And we should also keep in mind that Peterson himself will find it very frustrating to be a superstar on a crappy team for his whole career. I don’t wish that fate on any decent athlete.

by jimbo55403 on Nov 28, 2011 11:30 AM CST up reply actions

I've thought all season....

the Vikings have been building to be the ’90’s Lions….

by michiganpat on Nov 28, 2011 11:47 AM CST up reply actions

Here's the thing

Toby is not every bit as good as lots of backs who are starting in the league. But yeah, he’s probably as good as anyone on Green Bay’s roster, but that’s faint praise.

I have no idea whether Caleb King is any good, but I do know that I don’t want to play a full season with Toby as my starting running back, in no small part because I don’t have Aaron Rodgers or his receivers.

And I’d much rather have my running game in place while trying to build my passing game instead of blowing it up so I have to rebuild both.

But it’s all moot. With his contract, no one is going to give up the kind of value it would take to make trading AP attractive. And I wouldn’t give him up for less than a package including two first round picks.

But I think we can get the extra picks we need to rebuild by trading down in the draft.

by amiller92 on Nov 28, 2011 12:08 PM CST up reply actions

Do not trade draft picks for AP

Because we have real value in AP, and draft picks are still a crapshoot, hope, and prayer. The only ones I would trade right now would be Frazier and Muskrat for a couple of 900th round draft picks.

Besides, the Pats/Belichik/Krafts are not stupid. Not only do they not rely on the running game, but they dump pretty much anyone on the downside of their careers. I really don’t think he would pay the tab for Peterson, especially since he has that new Grunk chunk TE, who is taking care of the short game.

Besides, Belichick prides himself on taking average running backs and designing good plays for them. I might be wrong, but I don’t think he’s ever had an exceptional running game. He doesn’t take great running backs and try to dumb them down, which is what Frazier is doing.

by liveforadrenaline on Nov 28, 2011 2:05 PM CST up reply actions