QB That Was Way Overdrafted Goes 5th Overall In 2011 NFL Re-Draft
by Christopher Gates on Nov 8, 2011 8:15 PM CST
in Minnesota Vikings 2011 Season
Email
PrintBack when the Minnesota Vikings selected quarterback Christian Ponder with the 12th pick of the 2011 NFL Draft, the criticism started within minutes. The most infamous of these criticisms was noted talent evaluation guru Trent Dilfer saying that Ponder was basically Elvis Grbac. For the record, Grbac threw 99 career TD passes to 81 career interceptions, compared to Dilfer's 113 career scores and 129 career picks. . .Dilfer was just fortunate enough to be able to ride one of the NFL's all-time great defenses to a Super Bowl.
For the record, the previous year Dilfer also said that the St. Louis Rams' selection of Sam Bradford was "catastrophic" and said that Jimmy Clausen was "by far" the best quarterback available in the 2010 NFL Draft. That would be the same Jimmy Clausen that was so awesome and showed so much potential that the Carolina Panthers waited all of 12 months before drafting his replacement.
So, he's got that going for him. . .which is nice.
But, anyway, back to Ponder. Gil Brandt, who served as the main personnel man for the Dallas Cowboys for the first 30 seasons of their existence, has a regular gig with NFL.com and the NFL Network, and has basically forgotten more about football than all of us put together will ever know did a "do over" of the first round of the 2011 NFL Draft. According to Brandt, rather than a reach, it appears that the Vikings may have gotten a steal instead.
Brandt has Ponder going fifth in his do-over, with the Arizona Cardinals passing on stud cornerback Patrick Peterson to snag Ponder instead. His logic?
History says it's far easier to find a corner than a quarterback. Ponder has played really well in his two starts and his lack of arm strength would be mitigated by the fact that the Cardinals play indoors. He's very smart and recognizes things quickly. Peterson has started seven games and taken back two punts for touchdowns, but when you have continued issues under center that has to be your top priority. This also would have allowed the Cardinals to bypass the Kevin Kolb trade.
Hey, remember when the Vikings were rumored to be the suckers. . .er, the other team in a potential Kevin Kolb deal? Man, sure did dodge a bullet on that one.
In Brandt's do over, Ponder is the third quarterback taken overall, behind Cam Newton (who still went #1 to Carolina) and Andy Dalton (who jumped up to #2 overall and the Denver Broncos). He has Blaine Gabbert still going to Jacksonville at #10 overall, and the Vikings still taking a quarterback by grabbing Jake Locker at 12.
I know, some folks will say that eight or nine weeks into the 2011 NFL season is too early to be doing a "do over" of the most recent NFL Draft. Maybe. . .just maybe. . .15 minutes after a guy is drafted is a little early to be killing him as being a "bust" or a "reach" or "terribly overdrafted," too. Maybe the "experts" could. . .I don't know. . .let the guy attend an NFL mini-camp or something first, yeah?
(Thanks to NMVike for pointing this out in the FanPosts a few days back.)
56 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
So glad we drafted Ponder
Much better to take a chance in the draft than what the Cardinals gave up for unproven Kolb (picks plus big contract with lots of guaranteed money)
And he's got Fitz too
What is that guy’s deal? He looked absolutely LOST the entire game against us. And that “other” guy named Peterson(Patrick) looked like some freshman on his first day of school and our Peterson(AD) was hunting him down to take his milk money. Ugly ugly secondary play by him. If he hadn’t returened any kicks he would be getting labelled a big fat bust right now. Not too good for a guy experts were stating he was “the most sure thing in the draft”. It’s not too often we look back at the draft and think we got it right(at QB). Other positions have done great(moss, percy, AD, KWill), but QB(Culpepper, TJack, can’t remember the other fails). Kind of want to tip my cap to the Vikings FO on this. They knew they were going to get hammered by the media about this pick too, but stuck with it, got the guy they wanted, and check ‘em out….they’re kickass, bro!
White Horn Gold Pants
Culpepper wasn't a fail
Initially, anywyas, he and Moss put up some great numbers, but after his knee was blown out, yes, he was arena football league materal
Gotta disagree on Peterson
Yea, he didn’t look great against AD (though who does?), and he hasn’t exactly been Revis Island 2.0 yet either (though Revis wasn’t Revis his first year either), but he has played well in most of their games and looks to be much better than advertised as a returner. He has already tied the Cardinal’s career Punt Return for TD record in just 8 games, having returned his 3rd one 99 yards for the game winner in OT Sunday (also putting him 1 shy of the NFL season record). He also has 2 of the Cardinals 6 interceptions.
The Cardinals got a good player. I don’t think there are any regrets with that pick.
call me a nut but
to me, the best free agent choice over the off season was Kyle Orton, not Kevin Kolb. he was pretty good in Chi-town, and he put up some pretty impressive numbers his first two seasons with a very bad Denver team….he’s like 27 or 28, so probably has 8-10 good years left. his W-L record may not be great, in Denver, but to use the statement used against the Colts in this year’s drubbing by the Saints, the QB doesn’t play defense. His big issue, which probably would have made him suck here, is he isn’t the most mobile, so you’d need a solid O-line. I think Orton, and addressing the O-line in the first few rounds would have worked well for us.
Both are sucking ass this year and neither would’ve lasted in front of Ponder.
"Let's go our there, and stick our fists through their ribcages, rip our their hearts, eat them, and shit them back out on the field!!" - Blue Mountain State
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Nov 9, 2011 9:35 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
He was not a free agent
There just happened to be a lot of trade talk. He was ny number one choice as well and is unfairly underrated in my opinion, but probably not worth actually giving up players or picks.
gil has a good point when drafting a qb .
if they have less than 19 starts in college they might be a bust. over 19 greater chance of being at good. gil has another 400 factors but thats a simple one to remember ..it isnt iron clad but since almost all rules have exceptions. …. too bad gil wasnt the vikes guy for 30 years …. but we need more than 2 games before we start limpin with the bisquit …. over ponder . so far so good and with blame game being mcnabb pressures off ponder.
So seriously...
I’m still waiting for this “lack of arm strength”. Anyone else seen it?
Every time he throws a screen pass its obviously because of a lack of arm strength
To be serious, though, I AM waiting for his accuracy to show up. He’ll be great when or if he improves his completion percentage. I’m confident that will improve soon, though.
Also under pressure. That needs to improve.
From now on
Whenever I hear an NFL scout say “lack of arm strength” I’m going to interpret that as:
“Cannot gun the ball 60 yards downfield from his knees”.
I agree I don’t see any serious issue with his arm strength. Actually from what I’ve seen if he needs to get a ball to a WR quickly, the ball still has a decent amount of velocity on it. He has looked good in the short amount of game time we have seen him in. Hopefully he can keep it up and keep our offense looking respectable again.
LOL
I think it also applies to moments when a QB is scrambling, or avoiding a pass rush, and has to rely more on arm strength to get the ball out, rather than setting, planting and using a “textbook” throwing motion.
And in the short time we’ve seen Ponder, I haven’t see that as an issue at all.
SKOL Vikings!
Not binary
I’s not like you either have arm strength or you don’t. It is a contionuum, and it can decline over time (eg, McMahon, Brad Johnson).
It is not a necessary quality for success, any more than all the other factors:
Height (but see Tark, Flutie, Leaf)
Mobility (but see dozens)
Big Hands (but see Culpepper)
Arm strength (but see Jeff George).
Some guys aborb enough of the game and have enough skills that they can just make plays, repeatedly and consistently. Some guys never get there. I don’t buy that anybody has any surefire way of predicting success in the pro’s. I’ve seen too much over the decades.
How many games did Brady start at Michigan? How many games did Brad Johnson start at FSU?
TiggerSr
Um
How many games did Brady start at Michigan? How many games did Brad Johnson start at FSU?
Brady started every game his junior and senior seasons. He was Honorable Mention All Big Ten both years and team captain as a senior. He was 20-5 as a starter and won two bowl games.
In every pass over 20 yards
He gets the ball there, but it’s a rainbow, not a clothesline. He doesn’t have the arm strength of, say, Newton, or Gabbert. Favre was a great example of a QB with world-class arm strength.
Ponder does alright, but because he can’t rocket the ball to target, the secondary has a little more time to react and Ponder needs to lead just a little bit more. Like any QB without a cannon-arm, Ponder’s compensated and he’s doing just fine. And every once in a while, we might see him heave a big one, it’s not like he can’t throw the ball long. He just can’t do it hard and fast.
Personally, I think it’s correctable, or at least, improvable. It all depends on who’s training him.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Seems like he hangs some of the longer throws, and some of the deep outs and comebacks a bit. His arm definitely seems strong enough.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Nov 10, 2011 9:07 PM CST up reply actions
The same thing can be said for Andrew Luck
Let him get in an NFL camp and start a season before you claim he’s the next Manning. This talk about him being a “can’t miss” and a future hall of famer before he’s taken a singgle NFL snap really pisses me off.
"Let's go our there, and stick our fists through their ribcages, rip our their hearts, eat them, and shit them back out on the field!!" - Blue Mountain State
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Nov 8, 2011 10:48 PM CST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
And sometimes that's not even long enough.
Look at what Alex Smith is doing when people were calling him a bust at the end of last year. He’s not throwing out rediculous numbers like Cam Newton (who everyone said was going to bust if I might add), but he’s being a consistent QB and doing enough for his team to win every Sunday.
"Let's go our there, and stick our fists through their ribcages, rip our their hearts, eat them, and shit them back out on the field!!" - Blue Mountain State
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Nov 8, 2011 10:54 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
No one is a true "can't miss"
But as prospects go, he is widely considered the biggest “can’t miss” QB since John Elway, who many consider to be the surest QB prospect of all time. From the film I’ve watched, I’m inclined to agree. He’s certainly the best QB prospect to come out of college since I started following the draft 10 years ago (which means he has the highest floor, not necessarily the highest ceiling).
I have trouble taking this post seriously
When they imply that Houston is using (290+ LB) JJ Watt as a rush LB instead of the 3-4 DE that he is…
Also, did a Viking fan write this? Lions drafting a 3-4 DE and the Packers drafting a 27 year old G???
"I'm here to talk about the economy today -- about the need to get four quarters of strong, consistent performance. That wasn't another Jay Cutler joke, I swear. It could be, but it's not."
Just looked at the author
I expected better out of Gil Brandt…
"I'm here to talk about the economy today -- about the need to get four quarters of strong, consistent performance. That wasn't another Jay Cutler joke, I swear. It could be, but it's not."
That was your first mistake
I expected better out of Gil Brandt…
I have a lot of respect for what Gil has done in his long and storied career. But I stopped taking anything he said seriously about 5 years ago.
I appreciate him endorsing Ponder, but it ultimately doesn’t mean anything.
To repeat my comment from the other thread
Why the lack of love for Von Miller? Outside of Cam Newton, possibly the single best pickup in the draft. Incredible numbers, great intangibles, fantastic work on the edges and great work doing things he hasn’t been expected to do – his pass coverage skills are surprising and his run stopping is almost elite.
I’m also surprised with Gil Brandt. He literally just relegated Von Miller to “He’s not a 4-3 OLB, he’s a 3-4” without any analysis of how he’s been doing in a 4-3. Yes, he rushes more than any other 4-3 OLB in the league (once more than Kamerion Wembley and and order of magnitude more than anyone else) but it works. His 4-3 responsibilities are not slacking – he’s better than average at pass coverage and almost elite at run stopping.
Yea, he’d be a great 4-3 DE. He’d also be great anywhere.
I think he’s been the most impressive guy, personally. There is NO way in hell he’d drop all the way to 10 if there was a do over.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Nov 10, 2011 9:08 PM CST up reply actions
It's funny, I just went back an re-read
Dilfer’s criticism’s of Ponder…namely, that Dilfer, who said this about Ponder:
Dilfer told Cowherd that he watched every snap Ponder took in college. He described Ponder as a quarterback who looks great in workouts but quickly loses accuracy and effectiveness in the pressure of a game.
Was disproven in Ponder’s first two starts. As the pressure in both the Packers and Panthers game ratcheted up, Ponder got better.
Dilfer’s still butthurt that Elvis Grbac replaced him in Baltimore.
Some people just need a high five. In the face. With a chair.
Trent Dilfer is a liar
There is no possible way he watched Ponder thoroughly at Florida State and came to that conclusion.
"Let's go our there, and stick our fists through their ribcages, rip our their hearts, eat them, and shit them back out on the field!!" - Blue Mountain State
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Nov 9, 2011 11:02 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Seriously
He described Ponder as a quarterback who looks great in workouts but quickly loses accuracy and effectiveness in the pressure of a game.
Does he really think Ponder would have kept his job at FSU if that was the case? That’s painfully illogical.
Maybe he got confused and was talking about his own NFL career…
Especially with a 70% completion percentage, 6’ 5" 250lb QB in E.J. Manuel backing him up.
"Let's go our there, and stick our fists through their ribcages, rip our their hearts, eat them, and shit them back out on the field!!" - Blue Mountain State
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Nov 9, 2011 2:46 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know that he's a liar
But I do think he’s…jealous, maybe?…of guys that come out of college that are as hyped as he was and have better careers than he did. Dilfer was 6 overall and was TERRIBLE for most of his career, and I think it burns him when a guy comes into the NFL and has the success he didn’t.
I think a lot of his vitriol comes from his own personal insecurity about how he’s perceived. I mean, he was the starting QB for a SB winning team in which he got zero credit, was unceremoniously dumped for Elvis Grbac (who Dilfer used as a comaprison in his criticism of Ponder) and then was a backup for a few years before retiring.
Some people just need a high five. In the face. With a chair.
Few Things
1) Calling someone a reach is not always the same at calling someone overrated. Taking Tom Brady in the first round of the 2000 draft would have been a reach because he would have been available up into the 6th round.
2) Any insecurity on Dilfer’s end is greatly surpassed by the insecurity on this site about Dilfer’s comments.
A few more things
1.) Doesn’t apply. We weren’t able to trade down and he wouldn’t have been there in the second round.
2.) Insecurity is a unease or nervousness. We think he’s a dumbass. There’s a difference.
"Let's go our there, and stick our fists through their ribcages, rip our their hearts, eat them, and shit them back out on the field!!" - Blue Mountain State
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Nov 9, 2011 3:25 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Exactly
Dilfer’s analysis of Ponder doesn’t make us insecure. It reinforces the fact that Dilfer is kind of a dope.
SBNation Minnesota - For the greatest sports fans in the world.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
"Don't do anything by half. If you love someone, love them with all your soul. When you go to work, work your ass off. When you hate someone, hate them until it hurts." - Henry Rollins
Follow @DailyNorsemanSB
Follow @SBNMinnesota
by Christopher Gates on Nov 9, 2011 4:02 PM CST up reply actions
off topic.
if peterson runs for 240 on monday nite he will be all time rushing leader for viking.and he has 61 tds to robert smith had 32 tds.2 less years to do it too.
Ponder's arm is fine
Not great but good enough. Gil Brandt, it’s not as big as Newton’s but much better than the Colt McCoys & Daltons of the world.
Agree. Scouts see a QB who prefers touch throws
and assume that ‘arm strength ’ is the reason he plays that way. They slammed Tom Brady for ’arm strength’ coming out of college too. To me, Ponder throws a VERY good deep ball, and for the same reason Brady does. They both have an instinct for how much loft to put under it to let the WR make a play on the ball.
For a guy w/ 2 games, no OTAs, and reserve team preseason reps to have played as well as he has, I’m pleased. But then, I thought he was the right pick at the time too. :P
by Shawn Gillogly on Nov 9, 2011 6:18 AM CST up reply actions
Trent Dilfer is a horrible analyst…. What makes me really despise him is the aggressive way he looks into the camera and speaks as though his opinion is fact!
"Somewhere in Minnesota, a child becomes a Vikings fan and wonders if they will win a Super Bowl in their lifetime"
Like Merril Hodge?
Or Tod McShay, or everyone on “first and ten” (that red headed guy is the worst analizer on ESPN and the black guys are no better), or Mel Kiper Jr.?
"Let's go our there, and stick our fists through their ribcages, rip our their hearts, eat them, and shit them back out on the field!!" - Blue Mountain State
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Nov 9, 2011 11:15 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Joking?
If not, just don’t respond. I will not argue this off topic subject with.
"Let's go our there, and stick our fists through their ribcages, rip our their hearts, eat them, and shit them back out on the field!!" - Blue Mountain State
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Nov 9, 2011 2:49 PM CST up reply actions
**with you.
"Let's go our there, and stick our fists through their ribcages, rip our their hearts, eat them, and shit them back out on the field!!" - Blue Mountain State
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Nov 9, 2011 2:49 PM CST up reply actions
I kinda like Merril Hodge and
Todd McShay. I can’t stand Skip Bayless and Mel Kiper Jr. Skip Bayless is absolutely useless and Mel Kiper Jr’s hair bugs me. xD
But in all seriousness, Cris Carter is the best person on ESPN. (I’m a homer and I am not ashamed in the slightest)
I don’t like McShay because he was a BIG downer on Ponder and the Vikings for “reaching” so high to get him.
"Let's go our there, and stick our fists through their ribcages, rip our their hearts, eat them, and shit them back out on the field!!" - Blue Mountain State
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Nov 9, 2011 2:52 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, I didn't like that about him.
But I prefer him over Kiper Jr. anyway. Besides, no one thought we were gonna take Ponder right there. I sure didn’t. I thought we would’ve taken Nick Fairley or Prince Amukamara. I think most people thought we would take Prince. The Ponder pick was a big surprise to me. I don’t think I was really upset, just surprised.
I like Kiper and McShay, think that they get it right more often than not.
Skip Bayless is my least favorite person on ESPN.
"I'm here to talk about the economy today -- about the need to get four quarters of strong, consistent performance. That wasn't another Jay Cutler joke, I swear. It could be, but it's not."
I'm sick of hearing about his supposed " lack of arm strength"
Ponder has a strong arm. He can get the ball in tight spaces quick and can also throw a lead the WR deep ball. He has a quick release and has plenty of zip on his out routes.
He does use great touch at time,s but he can fire it in there and has surprised me at times with how hard he throws it.
PONDER"S arm is just fine thank you. I also heard Aaron Rodgers didn’t have quite enough arm strength and fell to the later part of the 1st round b/c of it. Drew Brees was suppose to be too small and not have enough of a cannon as his arm strength came into question his first few years starting in San Diego. Need I go on? I can.
I'll have your mother call you shortly.
it's the 30 yard plus passes he's failling to pick up.
I see a lot of them lofting in the air or being tossed in bad spots. Arm strength is something he can work on. I would like to see his completion percentage go up. I think that was a high point of his in college.
Putting Ponder in isn't the question, it's the answer.
According to ESPN
He’s 1-4 on passed over 30 yards. That’s a pretty small sample (although he’s 1-6 for passes from 21-30).
Puts up a rainbow of a ball to
which is usually over thrown because he knows if it’s not on the outside of the receiver the DB is going to have a good shot at picking it up.
Putting Ponder in isn't the question, it's the answer.
If the Vikings beat the Packers at Lambeau on Monday Night
I say we write a group letter to Dilfer asking him to publicly apologize for criticizing Ponder’s play in big time situations.
I freaking love that picture. Can't get enough of it
"God always comes first, then grades, (and lastly) football." 11-year old phenom Demias Jimerson on his reaction to being told that he cannot score more than 2 TD's per game in his Arkansas Pee-Wee football league.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Daily Norseman
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Adrian Peterson blows teammates away in footraces; appears to be on the mend
- UPDATE: Charlie Sheen didn’t buy Lawrence Taylor’s Super Bowl ring
- Alex Smith gets blown up by Jon Beason over Cam Newton comments
- Having finally landed, Kellen Winslow looks for a fresh start in Seattle
- Tim Tebow teased with chants of ‘Lolo!’ in Jets locker room
