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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Stock Market Report, Game 13

From the NFL rulebook...GRASPING FACEMASK:  Article 5. No player shall twist, turn, or pull the facemask of an opponent in any direction.  Penalty: For twisting, turning, or pulling the mask: Loss of 15 yards. A personal foul. The player may be disqualified if the action is judged by the official(s) to be of a flagrant nature.  Nope, no facemask here.  Move along, nothing to see.

I really don't know where to begin, but let me get a couple of things off my chest.

There is no quarterback controversy. Christian Ponder is the quarterback of this team, and if you thought he wouldn't make typical rookie mistakes, and have at least one facepalm game, then I doubt we can have an intelligent conversation about this.

Did he make poor throws? Yeah. Did he have a bad game? Yep. I can forgive the first turnover that was a strip sack for a TD, and those picks were terrible throws. But until he was pulled so he wouldn't take more of a physical beating, he rallied. He still made throws, and he had a couple of nice TD passes. And Joe Webb rallied this team in a way that I frankly didn't think was possible. I tip my cap to you, Spiderman. That was a yeoman's performance out there, and if my vote for game ball of the week is worth anything, my vote goes to you, Mr. Webb.

So I got that off my chest. Let me get something else off my chest while we're at it.

I am generally of the belief that most NFL games are pretty fairly officiated. Most teams get one or two calls that go against them and one or two calls that go their way each game. I am also of the belief that the NFL is NOT the NBA, where one or two select teams seems to get every call every game. And yeah, I am also of the belief that if your team gets a particularly bad call aganst them, the refs give your team a 'makeup call' at some point.

Most importantly, I am not a Conspiracy Theory guy when it comes to the NFL being 'against' the Vikings, or any other team, for that matter. Nor do I generally believe that, also like the NBA, certain players are given 'the benefit of the doubt' on calls while lesser players of the same position don't get calls. All teams and players get calls that go against them, and calls that go for them.

The same thing happened against the Lions today.

But that non-call facemask at the end of the game was BULLSHIT. It wasn't questionable, it wasn't a gray area, it wasn't even an incidental 'let them play' situation, like you could argue on some close pass interference plays. Joe Webb's head was snapped down and to the right, and my Dad and I both yelled 'FACEMASK!!!!' at the exact same time. A buddy of mine from work even TEXTED me WHILE THE PLAY WAS GOING ON, and it said 'facemask, u lucky bastards'.

But it wasn't called.

Normally, this kind of thing doesn't piss me off, and I really don't know why this is grating my ass the way it is, but man, I'm pissed about it. I mean, this wasn't a playoff game; the team is 2-11, so in the long run you could say that the non-call might have helped the franchise long term, because we might have dropped in the draft order had the Vikes won.

But I don't care about that right now. The Vikes deserved a chance to win that game. The flag should've been thrown, and the Vikings should have gotten a free play with no time on the clock. This was one of the worst non-calls in the NFL in the last several years, and it very likely could go a long way in determining what the playoff field is for the NFC.

And once again, there were no police there to make it right, making us the King of Pain yet again. Police, King of Pain..seewhati'mabouttodohere?

.

I have stood here before inside the pouring rain
With the world turning circles running 'round my brain
I guess I'm always hoping that you'll end this reign
But it's my destiny to be the king of pain

SMR, after the jump.

Star-divide

Blue Chip Stocks (Besides Percy Harvin and Jared Allen)

If you're new to the SMR, in the last couple weeks Viking Investments has decided that we have three continuous blue chip stocks--Allen, Harvin, and Adrian Peterson. Peterson stock is on hold right now, but Allen and Harvin continue to rise, and today was no exception. They're freaking awesome.

Joe 'Spiderman' Webb, QB: After Christian Ponder's imitation of a pinata resulted in candy being strewn about the Ford Field turf, Joe Webb came in and had the game of his career. His 65 yard TD run helped get the Vikes back within 10, and the comeback was on. Would've loved to have seen what had happened had he gotten one more play on that non-call at the end of the game. It was a performance that came out of nowhere, and it also included Webb's first career TD pass, a short 2 yarder to Toby Gerhart (yay fantasy points for me!).

Toby 'Smash' Gerhart, Bowling Ball: You know, last week I posited that maybe Gerhart is ill-suited in his role as a back up/third down back, and the Vikes might see what they could get from him in a trade during the off season. I still feel that way, but they need to get somebody besides Lorenzo Booker to be the back up to the back up. So, if the Vikes management is reading this, don't get rid of Gerhart if you keep Booker, okay? Anyhow, Gerhart had 90 yards on 19 carries, along with the aforementioned 2 yard TD reception. Gerhart is a good back, and I like him. But these past few weeks he has given off more of a 'feature back' vibe than ever, and he's not going to be that as long as AP is the #1 back. I think a trade is at least worth looking into, and if they can get value for him, I say pull the trigger.

Solid Investments

Devin Aromashodu, WR. The District Attorney had an okay game, but he still had a couple of troubling drops. He seems to be developing into a 'look to first' guy for Ponder, and he has flashes of real talent. And just when you think he's going to make that transcendental catch, he drops an easy one, or he pulls up on a go route, or something. Look, he's not bad, and he's not great, but I think he could be good. And I hope he will be, but he's a stock that is worth watching right now.

Greg Camarillo, WR. I really, really thought that Cammy was going to have a good year as a number 4 guy this year, but he's been largely invisible. And I don't know why. He made two big catches today, both on third down to get a drive sustaining first down, and he also broke up a poorly thrown ball that could've been yet another turnover.

Benny Sapp, CB. Okay, I admit it. I was wrong. Benny Sapp has the only defensive back that has played anything we like to call 'defense' since he was signed off of waivers. His overall pretty good play has been overshadowed by the rocket ship of suck that everyone else in the secondary is zooming to the moon in, but I think he was manned up on Calvin Johnson for most of the day, and Megatron only had 3 catches all day.

Heck, The Rest Of The Defense too, except members of the secondary not named Benny Sapp: When you give up 34 points, you're probably thinking 'Ted, take off your homer glasses'. But hear me out on this--of the 34 points Detroit scored, 31 were from turnovers and/or a short field set up by said turnover or special teams breakdown. If I had to venture a guess, I would say that the Lions average starting field position in the first half was the Minnesota side of the field. The Vikings defense continually played in the shadow of their own end zone, and acquitted themselves well, for the most part. The run defense was as good as it's been in a month, and they put relentless pressure on Matthew Stafford, who took a beating every bit as fierce as Ponder did.

Junk Bonds

Cedric Griffin, Burn Victim. I really admire Cedric Griffin. Coming back from ACL injuries on different knees in consecutive years is damned impressive, but he's just not getting it done. He looked good early on, but has regressed badly, and with absolutely no safety help backing him up, he looks like a prizefighter that should've retired four or five fights ago. Would a switch to safety help?

Every Safety On The Roster: You guys are a black hole from which talent cannot escape. How many weeks in a row have we seen a cornerback release his guy to the safety, only to have the safety in row 6 ordering a dog and a beer? It happened at least three times today, and they went a long way to make Titus Young look like Jerry Rice. Titus Young. Seriously?? Their play makes me long for Madieu Williams.

Every Offensive Tackle On The Roster: Phil Loadholt and Charlie Johnson should be arrested as accomplices in attempted murder, because they damn near got Christian Ponder killed. On the first offensive play of the game, Phil Loadholt put his matador training skills to use, waving a red blanket and yelling 'OLE!' as Cliff Avril blew by him, forcing a fumble in the end zone that the Lions recovered for a TD. First. Play. Charlie Johnson wasn't much better, and by the third quarter Ponder had been TKO'd, and Joe Webb took over. Thank God Webb has some wheels, or he'd be in intensive care next to Ponder.

Buy/Sell:

Buy: The sweet playcall that resulted in the Shiancoe TD. Sometimes, Bill Musgrave really impresses me and I can see why he was hired as the offensive coordinator. That designed screen to Shank in the red zone was beautufully designed, well executed...and TD Vikes.

Sell: Some fairly idiotic play calls that make no sense. Giving Lorenzo Booker the ball, for example. Ever. Last week against Denver, on the pick Ponder threw, he was looking for Harvin, and it looked like Harvin was running a flag pattern, but Harvin was on the short side of the field, and he ran out of field to maneuver in. Or not having your playmakers on the field during critical points in the game, seemingly every week. I like Bill Musgrave (my Dad doesn't, but he hasn't liked a coach since Bud Grant left); he graciously sat down and gave DN the biggest interview in our site's history, and he was pretty candid in his answers. At times, you can see the potential in this offense, but at times you scratch your head and go WTF?

Buy: Not overusing Percy Harvin. I get that Harvin can't be on the field every kick return and every offensive play, but they should put him in more. He is a game changer as a kick returner, something he showed again today, and he should be used there more.

Sell: Marcus Sherels thinking he's Percy Harvin on kick returns. There are only two guys who should be allowed to field the ball nine yards deep in the end zone and run it out on a kick, and Marcus Sherels isn't one of them. Percy Harvin is one, and Devin Hester is the other. Marcus Sherels is not.

Buy: Having a lot of running back depth. You need to have a deep bench in today's NFL, and Toby Gerhart has really done a good job stepping up in Peterson's absence.

Sell: Lorenzo Booker being part of said running back depth. I do believe that Booker fumbled on consecutive touches, they were both 'lolwut' moments, and one ended a drive that had entered Detroit territory.

Buy: Christian Ponder. I know I addressed this earlier, but Ponder, bad throws and all, continues to impress overall. Every rookie is going to have that 'hit the wall' moment, where everything seems to fall apart, and Ponder looked like he was well on his way to that today. But even after getting punched in the mouth, he rallied to lead two nice drives to get the Vikes within shouting distance. And Joe Webb almost got the win in relief.

Sell: Drafting Robert Griffin III or Matt Barkley in the 2012 draft. The Vikings need a ton of help up and down the roster, and I don't think QB is one of them. Yeah, Ponder has 11 picks this year, but he also has 11 TD throws. He's made some terrible throws, but he's also made some great ones. He's made bad, BAD decisions, but he's also made some very good ones. In short, he's a rookie. As a fanbase, we haven't had to watch a QB grow on the job since Daunte Culpepper in 2000. And he had Cris Carter and Randy Moss to throw to, and a very good back in Robert Smith to hand off to. Ponder's learning, and he's getting better. Today was a step back, but that happens in the maturation process.

Don Glover Quote Of The Day:

'Jesus Christ son. I could coach this team better drunk than Muskrat or Frazier can sober."

--Immediately after Ponder threw his first pick which was followed up by the 57 yard Titus Young TD 3 plays later. You know, the one in which there was no safety to be seen for several hundred miles.

You know, Dad, sometimes I think you could.

Have you ever ran a 5K or a marathon? Yeah, me either. Well, I did used to run 5K's in the Army, and about 3.9 K's into it, it became a Death March. A grueling, 'fuckthisican'trunanotherstep' kind of feeling. But you didn't want to fail, so you kept going. Because you have pride, and you WILL cross that finish line, and you WON'T quit.

And that's where we are now--we're 4K's into this bastard of a season, we have a sideache, our right calf is starting to cramp, and we just got passed by some 11 year old girl. Oh, and your lungs are on fire. And it feels like you have to pee.

But we're not quitters, Viking faithful. We're three games from the finish, and we're going to kick it in to high gear and finish strong. We'll be damned if some 11 year old girl is going to beat us.

Because the sooner this ends, the sooner we can shower and get the smell of 2011 off of us.

Comment 146 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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agree

fully on the ponder analysis, and the oline. we def need a reciever and some oline.

by mnvikenavyfb on Dec 11, 2011 8:29 PM CST reply actions  

Hey, i like beating dead horses (more fight than our OLine)

Questions that need to be asked

Webb at KR and WR, why hasn’t this happened?
Why aren’t they moving the pocket more for Ponder?B

Blah, more rum now

"Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend."
Bruce Lee (1/27/40 - 7/20/73)

by Marcus.Grayson on Dec 11, 2011 8:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Why is the rum always gone?

oh yeah… now i remember.

Vikings Valhalla .com

by Admiral BigGun on Dec 12, 2011 7:45 AM CST up reply actions  

I hate this 5K.

Feels like we’re the fanbase that got stuck dragging Colts fans to the finish

"Believe in the system. For it shall bring light when there is dark, food when there is hunger, and shots when there are passes. This is the divine process." Yeo 4:18

by NorthernStar on Dec 11, 2011 8:35 PM CST reply actions  

I agree.

There is no quarterback controversy. Joe Webb did a great job coming in for Ponder today, but he’s not our full-time quarterback. He’s a great back up quarterback who can win or keep the game close in a different way if our starter goes down and he’s really nice to have for that, but I don’t know if he can beat a team with his arm if they take away his ability to scramble.

by SirGrizzly on Dec 11, 2011 8:43 PM CST reply actions  

LOL

Rec

"Go hard. I mean, like relentless. I want a bunch of coaches that coach like their hair’s on fire, and I want a football team that goes for four to six seconds (per play) with relentless effort." OSU Coach Urban Meyer.

The Daily Norseman
Off Tackle Empire

by Ted Glover on Dec 11, 2011 8:47 PM CST up reply actions  

LOL

could this be any more true?

by Norse on Dec 11, 2011 8:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Fact: Tebow went 3 of 16 for the first part of the game to remind us of John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

And so the Broncos had eternal life in this game….

(Note: This is sarcasm….)

Remember, remember the seventh of November.

by Go Twins! on Dec 11, 2011 9:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Glad to see my work was appreciated :)

Remember, remember the seventh of November.

by Go Twins! on Dec 11, 2011 9:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Not just appreciated, linked.

If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).

by Alittlemore_cowbell on Dec 11, 2011 9:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks!

I made this about 10 minutes after today’s game. Fox calls him Timmy and this is all I could think of the entire time…

Remember, remember the seventh of November.

by Go Twins! on Dec 11, 2011 9:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Rec'd, stolen, put on my Facebook page

Very nicely done, sir.

SBNation Minnesota - For the greatest sports fans in the world.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
"Don't do anything by half. If you love someone, love them with all your soul. When you go to work, work your ass off. When you hate someone, hate them until it hurts." - Henry Rollins

by Christopher Gates on Dec 11, 2011 9:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Same

"Believe in the system. For it shall bring light when there is dark, food when there is hunger, and shots when there are passes. This is the divine process." Yeo 4:18

by NorthernStar on Dec 11, 2011 10:18 PM CST up reply actions  

ROFL Funny!

Epic pic. (rec’ed)

Vikings Valhalla .com

by Admiral BigGun on Dec 12, 2011 7:47 AM CST up reply actions  

Wow 21 rec's and counting

It should turn different colors once it hits 20…

The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.

by Grime on Dec 12, 2011 8:10 AM CST up reply actions  

great way to finish off

about the 5k or a marathon. this has been a painstaking and long season for us SKOLS fans…but we endure as one whole fan base for our Vikings. 3 more games, ladies and gentleman….3 more games

by VikesFan28 on Dec 11, 2011 8:46 PM CST reply actions  

My ass is chapped

And I think it is because we are in absolutely every game until it comes time to close. We have now lost 8 games by 10 pts or less and been in position to win 6 of them in the last few minutes of the fourth quarter. We are not a bad team, we just can’t close. We are all frustrated and just need to get another win or two before the season ends.

Regardless, you have to give it to Leslie Frazier for keeping this team fighting! Minus one game against the Bears and Packers, we have yet to give up during the course of a game. I love the resiliency, but I just need to see them close it out for me in the last two minutes. There are some serious positional things to address in the offseason, but I think the front office will do so. I don’t know about the rest of you, but my beloved purple give me heartburn. I need some antacid and a win and I’m in for the long haul, so I might need some extra Pepto Bismol.

by pjhfh7 on Dec 11, 2011 8:53 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

It shows that we're not a completely terrible team.

We have some potential. We need to increase our core group of guys that have attitudes like Ponder, AP, Allen, and Harvin. If we can do that, we will turn those close losses into wins. I really like how the team is still fighting and I think that says at least a little about Leslie Frazier. He hasn’t lost these guys even though they only have 2 wins.

by SirGrizzly on Dec 11, 2011 9:01 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't we are too bad either

Sure our record sucks but we’ve lost so many close games that it makes me kind of excited for next year.

With the high pick we will have in each round,as long as we pick well, we should be able to improve a lot over the off season. But we have to keep the great players, shed some dead weight(almost entire o-line and secondary) and sign a couple free agents.

If we had even a middle of the road o-line and secondary we would probably be close to 500 right now. I think(hope) they will address these needs(kalil please) in the offseason, and we could be much improved next year.

by reebs on Dec 12, 2011 12:16 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I think the o-line could be middle of the road with a draft pick and some shuffling around.

Get Kalil at LT, move Johnson to RG where he should be playing anyway, keep Hutch since he’s still effective (not amazing anymore, but hopefully he can hold up for a couple more years), and if Sullivan keeps playing well, we won’t have to worry about that. The only one I’m not sure about is Loadholt. Sometimes he plays really well, at least in the run game, and other times he’s just terrible all the way around. If there’s no other option in free agency or on our roster already, they may roll with him and hope he improves like he seemed like he was earlier in the season, or they could try and get someone new in there. I’m not totally positive what they would do with him. I would personally like to see someone else in there, but with cap space and all the other things we need in our receivers and secondary, they may not be able to address that quite yet.

by SirGrizzly on Dec 12, 2011 12:24 AM CST up reply actions  

loadholdt needs to go

I think we’re OK at guard and center with who we have on the roster…

but man, loadholdt just looked bad today. yeah, he can be effective as a run blocker, but he’s way too slow and can’t pass block to save his (or his QB’s) life.

I still say make him a NT….

by michiganpat on Dec 12, 2011 7:43 AM CST up reply actions  

Herrera

Is the second worst player on the line right now (injuries have caught up with him; he used to be okay).

by amiller92 on Dec 12, 2011 7:55 AM CST up reply actions  

I definitely think he should go.

I just don’t know if that’s something they’ll be able to fix this off-season with all the things that need fixing.

by SirGrizzly on Dec 12, 2011 6:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Rt G

I’ve said b4, he’d be a solid gaurd. He has trouble(sucks) vs speed DE’s. He wouldn’t have that issue inside. Plus, he’s more apt vs the bigger but slower DT’s. As stated, he’s good run-blocker. I, for 1, think he would excell @ RG! It’d be worth a shot, its better than cutting him.

S.K.O.L ‘12’ VIKINGS

SKOL! Dawgs

by WarriorViking on Dec 12, 2011 10:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Loadholt's too big to be a guard

Herrera could still be useful as a backup. move Charlie Johnson inside to RG and I think he’d be fine, or you have Berger, who is a solid guard or center. and it’s nice to actually see another Tech Alumni in the NFL….

but Loadholt, the dude is like 6’8" or something. the QB won’t be able to see, or will be hitting him in the back of the helmet with the ball unless your QB is as tall as Magic Johnson….

by michiganpat on Dec 13, 2011 8:06 AM CST up reply actions  

And too slow to pull effectively

Nothing about the man says, “guard.”

But he’s is really good in run blocking, so as I’ve said before, I think if you upgrade at LT and have a guy who can lock down his side there, and you upgrade at RG, you can give Loadholt consistent help from the RB and/or a TE and he’s acceptable in pass protection.

by amiller92 on Dec 13, 2011 10:15 AM CST up reply actions  

The non-call was fucked up.

I wanted the Vikings to lose I admit, but not to a BS non-call. The referees in this game should be docked a check for missing this BLATANT penalty.

I thought last year was the season from hell and this one would be better. One some aspects it is, like less distractions than last year. However, its seasons like these past two that make you REALLY appreciate the good seasons, I’ll never take a good Vikings’ season for granted again, as long as they stay in Minnesota.

by christian220896 on Dec 11, 2011 8:57 PM CST reply actions  

Even when a draft pick is at stake

I still want them to win. I really get the ‘want to lose’ thing, but I just can’t root for them to lose. I never will, regardless of what the draft consequences are.

"Go hard. I mean, like relentless. I want a bunch of coaches that coach like their hair’s on fire, and I want a football team that goes for four to six seconds (per play) with relentless effort." OSU Coach Urban Meyer.

The Daily Norseman
Off Tackle Empire

by Ted Glover on Dec 11, 2011 8:58 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Agreed.

But after the fact, it makes losses a little bit easier to bear. For me, at least. I still root like hell for them to win during the game, though.

by SirGrizzly on Dec 11, 2011 9:02 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

big time Ted I want a good draft pick to but I want this team to win every game I wont ever root for them to lose just cant do it SKOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

by cali viking on Dec 11, 2011 9:07 PM CST up reply actions  

I can't root to lose either

I know I made a couple joke hearted suck for luck posts earlier in the year(to ease the pain of losing). I watched the entire game, and games past, And you but your ass bad discs and all I jumped up of the chair yelling FACEMASK during that last play.

I will admit I felt much better a minute after the play that it almost guarantees a top 3 pick.
Still sucks to lose that way though.

by reebs on Dec 12, 2011 12:23 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

yep Kalil, Martin not much difference to me.

The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.

by Grime on Dec 12, 2011 8:12 AM CST up reply actions  

FACEMASK!!!!

The exact thing I screamed violently at my TV as well.

Losing close games is tough, but on the brightside, with some improvement to the team made during the offseason, these are games we should win next year.

by Rycraft on Dec 11, 2011 8:58 PM CST reply actions  

Yeah...

Lucky I wasn’t at work when I was screaming that at the TV. The sad thing is I’m okay (kinda) with losing for draft position.

by Adam Sorum on Dec 11, 2011 10:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Hey guys,

I got in the game very late and didn’t get to see the cheap-shot on Ponder by a Lions LB. What happened, and was he flagged or ejected?

If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).

by Alittlemore_cowbell on Dec 11, 2011 9:01 PM CST reply actions  

Got a video link?

If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).

by Alittlemore_cowbell on Dec 11, 2011 9:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Wow

What pisses me off even more than the blatant cheap-shot is Jim Schwartz saying the calling was fucking bullshit. There comes a time when you can’t defend your player, you have to grab him by the facemask and chew his ass out on the sidelines.

If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).

by Alittlemore_cowbell on Dec 11, 2011 9:27 PM CST up reply actions  

That was exactly how I felt

I couldn’t believe he was defending his player, when it was very obvious he should be directing his anger at his player.

by nmatt71 on Dec 11, 2011 9:30 PM CST up reply actions  

It was Stephen Tulloch coming in late

and it was kind of cheap but there have been worse plays.

by abba7 on Dec 11, 2011 9:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, we're looking good for at least the 3rd pick.

Every team besides the Rams, Colts and us has 4+ wins. I guess we COULD win both Chicago and Washington, but I doubt it. And there’s almost no way we lose to the Saints.

by Purpledork on Dec 11, 2011 9:05 PM CST reply actions  

That's why

You root for the Rams tomorrow night! GO RAMS!

by christian220896 on Dec 11, 2011 9:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Joe Webb’s head was snapped down and to the right, and my Dad and I both yelled ‘FACEMASK!!!!’ at the exact same time.

I even found myself shouting “Facemask!” when it happened and I didn’t see a flag. Which was weird, because I wasn’t actually hoping either team would win the game. That’s how bad of a non-call that was.

Angelo: Right….so anyways Jay, I’m sure you understand that we needed to make this move and I wanna wish you the best of luck.

Cutler: (Swoops bangs out of eyes by throwing his head back) Whatever, I don’t need this team or you.
/Leaves in a huff
//Writes bad poetry on his blog

Grossman: What the fuck is Wilford Brimley’s problem?

by Packers3485 on Dec 11, 2011 9:06 PM CST reply actions  

Even if it had been called

and we score a TD, there in no doubt in my mind that Longwell would have somehow botched the extra point. It’s been that kind of year.

by abba7 on Dec 11, 2011 9:08 PM CST up reply actions  

It's like you watched the game at my house

My Dad said the EXACT same thing.

"Go hard. I mean, like relentless. I want a bunch of coaches that coach like their hair’s on fire, and I want a football team that goes for four to six seconds (per play) with relentless effort." OSU Coach Urban Meyer.

The Daily Norseman
Off Tackle Empire

by Ted Glover on Dec 11, 2011 9:11 PM CST up reply actions  

LOL!

Next week is going to be brutal against the Ain’ts. Brees is liable to pass for 600 yds or so.

by abba7 on Dec 11, 2011 9:15 PM CST up reply actions  

But...

I have Brees as my starter in both fantasy leagues’ playoffs. I’ll be upset if he scores less than 30.

by Eric J. Thompson on Dec 11, 2011 9:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Me too, (ducking now)

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!!!

by bf4mvp on Dec 11, 2011 9:37 PM CST up reply actions  

LOL

You think he’ll only attempt 28 passes against OUR secondary?? You’re a funny man.

If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).

by Alittlemore_cowbell on Dec 11, 2011 9:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Once he hits 650, he'll start to feel bad.

And then probably come out of the game. They’ll let Mark Ingram run around for a while.

by SirGrizzly on Dec 11, 2011 9:42 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

In these tough times,

you all deserve recs

If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).

by Alittlemore_cowbell on Dec 11, 2011 9:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Ponder

I think offensively they need to start calling more double moves. If you watch the game again, you can see Det was jumping all the underneath routes. Now that the tape on Ponder is out, it’s easy to see he is throwing a large amount of slants and outs. To keep the defense honest, we need more double moves to make the d-backs hesitate to jump the route.

Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.

by TroyW18 on Dec 11, 2011 9:20 PM CST reply actions  

Problem with that is

Ponder doesn’t have enough time behind our shitty O-line for double moves to properly develop.

by REVENGE4KLUWE on Dec 11, 2011 10:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh, sure he does

he can duck left and spin before he gets hit. That’s a double move.

"Go hard. I mean, like relentless. I want a bunch of coaches that coach like their hair’s on fire, and I want a football team that goes for four to six seconds (per play) with relentless effort." OSU Coach Urban Meyer.

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Off Tackle Empire

by Ted Glover on Dec 11, 2011 10:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Compensatory draft picks

The NFL will issue a statement tomorrow expressing regret for the missed facemask call just like the regrets expressed for the missed flaggrant hits on Brett Favre by the Saints in the 2009 NFL Championship game.

The competition committee should consider giving teams that have been hosed regularly and as often as the Vikings in games with playoff implications some compensatory draft picks to even the score. It’ll never happen and would be subjective and unworkable but the Vikings deserve more than a lukewarm apology tomorrow.

I am very hopeful that Spielman makes every single draft pick golden in April 2012 because the Vikings have some very solid building blocks in Ponder, Allen, Peterson, Harvin and Rudolph.

by TexasViking on Dec 11, 2011 9:37 PM CST reply actions  

Sell - the Detroit Lions as a serious playoff team.

The Lions are 1 more fraudelent team in a very mediocre league. If the Packers don’t win the SB it will be a major choke. Here’s hoping it happens.

by Torstein on Dec 11, 2011 9:47 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

can i petition the team

Into putting ad back in… I want him healthy but I need to win playoffs here, Im going to win by 3 pts bc of demarco today, but next week scares me

by Lunchpail on Dec 11, 2011 10:17 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

I go into these things wanting to agree with you

Because they are so well written and so often there is much that is right with them, but this week, I just can’t.

Blue chip for Gerhart? I thought this week was a clear last nail in the coffin for anyone thinking he can be a starting running back. He’s fine. He’s okay. But he doesn’t make big plays, and, for a big kid, he runs pretty soft. One of the many bits of Billick’s idiocy was assuming that he’s a bruiser because of his size. He broke an arm tackle or two today, but basically the guy is a slow back whose feet stop at contact. He’s a solid back up, but it really hurt us today that he was the number one guy. He just doesn’t give you much at all.

Next, Booker. He had an absolutely inexcusably horrid fumble, but at least he brought a little pace to the game. That one play was terrible, but it was a different game when he was in. One with a little speed out of the backfield. He’s not good, but he’s a legit “change of pace” when the main pace is Toby’s plodding, weak. falling forward. IF you are stuck with Toby as your number 1, you need a guy like Booker to come in with a little speed and shiftiness.

Regardless, the lesson of the game was that no one should ever talk about the Vikings playing in this league without AP. You hear me, people? NO ONE.

Moving, on, I made a few notes during that game as I was scoring Sully anyway:

— Ponder was not good today. Aside from the fumble on the first drive, and the fumble that shouldn’t have been at the end of the half because his arm was moving forward, this performance was on him. The protection wasn’t great, but it was better than it’s been and he just wasn’t very good today. I chalk it up to being hurt.

— That said, the d-backs for Detroit were jumping everything, and Musgrave needed to give Christian the chance to burn them by calling some double moves and going deep. We did that once or twice in the second half, but we should have made that adjustment sooner. Obviously, the weakness of our line makes that a bit harder.

— Brian Billick. Do you think they are punishing us for having a 2-10 team or him? His “work” in the booth is painfully terrible. From “Gerald” to generally not knowing who is doing what, this guy is just bad.

— Percy’s just flat out the man. Aside from running with the ball, and catching it, and returning kicks, his block inside the five yard line on Webb’s 60+ yard touchdown run demonstrates that the guy just flat out hustles. That play just added to my respect for a guy who could get by without working that hard but chooses not too. He’s great.

— The last play: Okay, so there is the facemask. I don’t get it. There is no way that is a no call. But there was more going on during that play, not least of which was Toby absolutely whiffing on his guy and leaving Webb exposed. If we needed more evidence that “Toby’s a good blocker” is a myth, there it is. This guy does not block well at all.

— Speaking of mythically good blockers: D’Imperio. I kept seeing number 44 ole’ing guys in the first half (including the first Ponder fumble) and thinking, “gee, K-Sauce isn’t getting it done today.” But oh, no. 44 isn’t the people’s champion. And 44 was bad today. I really only noticed him on the field twice. That’s two more times than a fullback really wants to be noticed (i.e., both plays were him screwing up).

— Finally, the 3-4. So, some around here have been advocating a switch to 3-4. You got it today on at least three plays. Twice (on the same drive) at the beginning of the second quarter you got Brian Robison, Jared Allen (aka Gerald) and Kevin Williams in the down line positions, and Everson Griffin as the extra linebacker and it seemed to work. They went back to it again with 6:38 to go in the fourth, but Detroit converted. I don’t really know what I think about it, but the formation was interesting to see.

by amiller92 on Dec 11, 2011 10:18 PM CST reply actions  

The pump-and-go looks promising, but...

I noticed that a linebacker was backing up the CB’s play, just in case Ponder did a pump fake and tried to loop one down the sideline. Unless you’ve got a burner at WR, the pump-and-go would be foiled by that linebacker.

Of course, the Vikings have absolutely no burners at WR. Harvin is their only burner, and he’s a slot guy. The rest of them are average speed, no 4.5-second forty yarders. Other than Harvin, the only fast guy that catches passes is Joe Webb.

by jimbo55403 on Dec 11, 2011 10:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Not sure how

A backer helps a corner who jumps the double move. It’s not the pump but the dback’s positioning that matters.

by amiller92 on Dec 11, 2011 11:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Exactly

it’d be a Safety, but he’d be pretty shallow.

SKOL! Dawgs

by WarriorViking on Dec 12, 2011 10:58 PM CST up reply actions  

The slow weak plodding Gerhart

averaged more than 4.5 yds a carry today, put up 90 yds and a TD catch, and is .06 seconds slower then Peterson in the 40. There were also a few plays where he was hit behind the line and turned them into solid gains. That’s not at all bad for a starting RB.

by Mebera on Dec 12, 2011 12:00 AM CST up reply actions  

He broke some arm tackles today

And no one said he isn’t a good pass catcher.

As for 40 time, I don’t care. He’s a slow runningback on the feld, and that’s what matters. The contrast with booker is more than enough evidence.

He’d be fine with an elite passing game (QB and receivers) but he doesn’t cut it as feature back in a run first offense. Not even close.

And he still stops his feet on contact and can’t block.

by amiller92 on Dec 12, 2011 12:14 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree with Ted on the gerhart assessment

I thought he looked like a human wrecking ball.
He was consistently breaking arm tackles, had a bunch of after contact yardage, and was clutch on a few very important downs. If peterson was at any point down for an extended period(knock on wood) I would absolutely be comfortable with him as our feature back.

I also pretty much am ready for booker to go away after a pair of lame fumbles today, one of which was luckily covered by a teammate. The only change of pace he brought was getting the defense back out there. I liked this guy a lot in preseason but I’ve since been thinking they should have gave that other Guy(king?) a shot. He also leaves a lot to be desired on kickoffs which drops his value more to me.

And ponders arm was not yet moving forward on that fumble, almost, but not quite.

by reebs on Dec 12, 2011 12:38 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

We can't really judge Gerhart now

With such a lousy offensive line, it’s very hard to judge anybody’s effectiveness. Gerhart may well be a very good power runner, but without holes to run through, how can we tell?

On the other hand, it doesn’t take any more evidence to see that Booker is a screw up. He’s one of the guys that simply must be cut in the off season, along with several other screw ups, old guys, slow guys, guys with no talent, etc.

by jimbo55403 on Dec 12, 2011 9:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Well, for one thing

He’s hit somebody and move the pile. And keep his legs churning after contact.

And our line really isn’t bad for run blocking. Terrible in pass protection, but they can run block (see, Hutchinson, Loadholt, Kleinsasser).

As for Booker, yes, what simply must be addressed is the third string running back.

by amiller92 on Dec 12, 2011 10:30 AM CST up reply actions  

Do you know "anything" about football

Hey Genius:
You say that gerhart clearly demonstrated why he is not a “feature back”. What planet are you living on anyways. Not a starter in this league you say….ask any coach in the NFL if he would take a guy who can give you 90 plus yards in the two complete games that Gerhart has actually played in and these coaches will tell you every time……..YES…..not yes but hell yes! What difference does it make “HOW” he gets his yards!

If Adrian Perterson was in the game and had 90 plus yards….you’d be hailing his comeback from injury as a huge success. You don’t have a fricking clue what this kid Gerhart is all about. For your other comments, once i read your statement on gerhart, there was no point in going any further because you don’t know squat.

by jjlovesfootball on Dec 12, 2011 10:36 AM CST up reply actions  

Call me when the kid makes his first cut

As I said, he’s fine. On this team, he’s at best a little-used backup. He could probably work for someone as the straight ahead guy in a platoon situation if you’ve got another guy with speed that can make guys miss.

But we’d be nuts to trade away Peterson and think we’re okay with Gerhart.

by amiller92 on Dec 12, 2011 11:34 AM CST up reply actions  

Setting the record straight

I’m sure you’re probably a good guy and we could have friendly banter back and forth while enjoying a couple of cold ones. That being said, can you find anywhere in my post that I even suggested trading AD? I’ve had the great pleasure to follow TG’s career from way back when he was a sophomore in high school. I watched him single-handedly destroy opposing defenses. I also had the joy of watching his collegiate career and was NOT the least bit surprised that he found himself at the Heisman table his last year. He IS that kind of player that will find a way to excel IF given the chance. He was unlucky (I suppose) to get drafted by the Vikings when they already have the best RB in the league. The truth is exactly what this author says…TG is being under utilized by the Vikings because he IS good enough to be the featured back just about anywhere else. As a “fill in” for AP……IMO this is a complete waste of his talent and the Vikings should indeed let him go and be the STAR somewhere else cause it aint gonna happen as long as AP is healthy. That’s all I’m saying here and have been saying this since the start of his career (2) years ago. If he’s not starting and getting significant touches with the Vikes (unlikely for obvious reasons) he is wasting away in Minnesota. No, I DO NOT think the Vikes should or will trade AP, but if they did and kept Gerhart as the featured back, it wouldn’t take long for him to wake up one day also as THEE MAN!

by jjlovesfootball on Dec 12, 2011 3:14 PM CST up reply actions  

The sober Muskrat's play calling

How many people called the Vikings 2nd offensive play of the game?
When the 1st Ponder-Camarillo pass was picked for 6, why throw it a 2nd time? It was nearly picked for 6.
When key moments like 3rd downs occur- why is Harvin or Rudpolph or Gearhart on the sideline?
When the reverse Tbone formation works, why don’t we use it more often?

Jamie Nesselroad, MD, MBA, CPE, FAAFP
100% Husband and Daddy

by JMN3MD on Dec 11, 2011 10:33 PM CST reply actions  

How fast is Everson Griffin?

1) Saw him running as gunner on punt coverage. Saw him run down a few WR this year. Now see him as a stand up LB/DE.

2) Anyone see potential in developing Griffin and Ballard on the line? They looked like future steady contributors today

Jamie Nesselroad, MD, MBA, CPE, FAAFP
100% Husband and Daddy

by JMN3MD on Dec 11, 2011 10:35 PM CST reply actions  

Absolutely

I’ve been thinking that for a while. Especially with Griffin, dude has a very allenesque motor on him. I would like to see him play more on the line, maybe in place of Robison for a while. He could make a good lb too as he seems pretty good in coverage.

by reebs on Dec 12, 2011 12:45 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Why the Vikings should start Webb the last two games

Ponder won’t win the last two, but Joe Webb has the kind of game that could give opposing defenses fits, just the way Tebow does. Lousy drop-back passer, great sandlot player.

It’s a completely different style than a conventional NFL quarterback, but guys like Newton and Tebow have proved you can win with a QB that’s a brawling downfield runner who can win by creating chaos and breaking down the carefully planned defenses where everybody is supposed to do a certain thing, but not anything else. When chaos comes to town, these defenses fall apart and the result is enormous gaps for running, WR’s wide open all over the place, and a whirlygig of players that a select few people can actually navigate.

Joe Webb is one of those guys. He can navigate through chaos the same way Tebow and Newton do. The Vikings actually have four skill players that can navigate and perform in chaos: Peterson, Harvin, Webb, and D’Imperio. Everybody else needs structure to perform, which is why it is futile to continue putting Ponder out there with such a poor offensive line. Ponder will succeed as soon as the Vikings have a decent offensive line and a decent group of receivers. Webb can succeed right now without either of those things, because he can create chaos with his scrambling, then take advantage of all the defensive breakdowns by running or hitting receivers that suddenly find themselves wide open in all the confusion.

For that reason alone, the Vikings should start Webb for the last two games. Webb may never be a high-percentage passer, but just as with Tebow, that’s missing the point. Guys like Webb and Tebow create defensive chaos, then take advantage of it. Careful schemes fall apart when the QB is perfectly willing and able to take off 60 yards down field, and when he’s a better athlete than anybody trying to tackle him. My brother said, “They’ll just put a spy on him.” Doesn’t matter. You can’t scheme for a Tebow or a Webb. They out-run your spy, and then another receiver is wide open because the CB left his man to try to tackle the crazy guy.

So, go ahead and start Joe Webb at quarterback. Give Ponder a rest until you have a respectable offensive line and a couple talented receivers. Meanwhile, Webb will drive defenses crazy, and might even win a game or two. That is, if you don’t mind watching grown men play catch the crazy guy.

by jimbo55403 on Dec 11, 2011 10:37 PM CST reply actions  

The only problem with that is...

1) winning doesn’t help us. As much as it sucks to say winning only hurts us now with draft picks.
2) we want Ponder to develop. As much as games like today suck, they help his development. If a hack like me can see teams are jumping routes, Ponder probably does too. He is learning from these games and hopefully doesn’t make the mistakes again.

Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.

by TroyW18 on Dec 11, 2011 10:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Losing on purpose?

Not a big fan of that. Besides, I’d still trade the #2 or 3 overall pick for more picks, because even the great Kalil can’t play four positions at once.

As many people have suggested, you trade the high first rounder for a couple picks at the mid-to-high first and second round. That allows some poor team with no QBoF to get one of the three good QBs after Luck. Somebody will want Griffen really badly, or Barkley or Landry Jones…

Suppose the Cardinals want Matt Barkley instead of Kevin Kolb. They trade up for Barkley, give the Vikings their first and second. Vikings take Jonathan Martin, OT, Stanford. Almost as good as Kalil. Oh shoot, that wouldn’t work, because the Cards don’t have a 2nd round pick… Anyway, a deal could be made with some team that really wants Barkley or Griffen and needs to leapfrog the competition.

by jimbo55403 on Dec 12, 2011 10:19 AM CST up reply actions  

D'Imperio?

Wow.

You blew all your credibility right there.

by amiller92 on Dec 11, 2011 11:09 PM CST up reply actions  

D'Imperio?

He can play tight end, fullback, gunner, and in a pinch, linebacker. He’s faster than K-Sauce, more maneuverable, and almost as strong. He can actually catch passes, and I’ve seen him run darn near as well as Gerhart. I’ve also seen him do some nifty down field blocking in broken-play situations, which happen a lot when this team’s got the ball. Ryan D’Imperio is one of those all-around football players that you find a way to play, somewhere, and he makes good things happen.

If you think that blows my credibility, then I wear that blown credibility proudly, like a balloon dog, along with most of the Vikings coaching staff.

by jimbo55403 on Dec 12, 2011 9:48 AM CST up reply actions  

Maybe he can do all of those things

But he really hasn’t. The only thing I noticed from him yesterday were two times when the guy he was supposed to block was blowing up the play in the backfield.

He’s a young player, maybe he will be good some day. But to put him on a short list of special Vikings players suggests more fandom than analysis.

by amiller92 on Dec 12, 2011 10:33 AM CST up reply actions  

the only reason I see in us giving webb a chance...

…if ponder isn’t really banged up too bad is so if he does well we will get some trade value for him.

He isn’t our QBOTF, I like the guy and I was really hoping he would get a chance at being the starter at the beginning of the season because I thought he deserved it with how he was able to move the offense and gave us a spark at the end of last year. That didn’t happen…I believe Webb could be a good running QB. His accuracy isnt very good, although I remember a couple deep throws last year that were on the money.

At first I thought it(drafting someone) was a dumb move. But Ponder has some skills and he may be able to develop into something great, though he didnt look all that good yesterday. That is the way the coaching staff went and I’m going to support that. It will take a couple years to see whether or not we can say Ponder is truely our qbotf.

I dont want to have Webb sit there a couple years to see whether Webb gets a shot. He is an AMAZING athelete and I would love to see him on the field. So for him to be sitting on the sidelines makes no sense at all to me. By giving him a shot at QB to gain other teams interest seems the only good reason that i see in playing him at QB baring Ponder injury. If he continues to impress with his legs, even though he’s not accurate(neither was Vick early on), There will be teams that will want the guy. It would give him a chance to go somewhere else in the offseason and play. plus we should be able to get a second or third rounder, maybe even a first (Kolb certainly was unproven and got more)

Maybe he could make a good or even great wideout with the build and skillset he possesses as some here have mentioned. But we will never know unless he is moved to WO permanently, he could be our #3/emergency QB so that we only need 2 QB’s on the roster which frees up a spot. He certainly is fast enough to be the deep threat we need, does he have the other intangibles to be that guy…? I remember on one instance of him(Webb) playing WR he made a real tough catch on an out route that he had to adjust and use his hands to snag it, so he may have decent hands. I’d like to see if he can fight for a deep ball I know he played some wideout in college but supposidly so did twilliamson…shudder

If we are to keep him around move him to a different position. Otherwise trade so that we can get someone that can help our team instead of having this beast stand around on our sidelines because it is obvious Ponder was the staffs decision to be our guy, he will, and should get the chance right now.

by reebs on Dec 12, 2011 1:26 PM CST up reply actions  

A thought occurs

If the refs had called the face mask on Levy and they gave us the ball back on the half yard line with a free play and we scored, would we actually have had the opportunity to kick the extra point? I honestly don’t know.

Would they treat it as a play that’s still live when time expires or like a TD in OT?

by Amrius on Dec 11, 2011 10:39 PM CST reply actions  

Yes

The extra point can be kicked after time expires at all times. It’s never kicked in OT because it isn’t ever needed in sudden death.

by Eric J. Thompson on Dec 11, 2011 10:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Gotcha

So if the penalty was called, the Vikings theoretically had a shot at winning at the last second. Kind of a shame. Oh well, it’s over and done with. No sense getting worked about it now.

by Amrius on Dec 11, 2011 11:01 PM CST up reply actions  

moot anyway

had we scored, the PAT would have been blocked, the lions would have won the coin toss in OT, and logan would have returned the kick for a TD…..because that’s just how our season has gone.

by michiganpat on Dec 12, 2011 8:13 AM CST up reply actions  

Yes

PAT happens no matter what the clock says.

by amiller92 on Dec 11, 2011 11:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Got into

An argument and need clarification from the good folks at the DN before I bury this prick. Why would the Vikings have got the ball back even know Webb fumbled the ball before he was facemasked? He’s arguing that Detroit would get the ball because Webb fumbles prior to the infraction. He can’t be right

Ponder to Harvin for 6!

by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Dec 11, 2011 10:55 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

The Lions had not gained possession at the time of the penalty.

It was still “our” ball, even though it was bouncing all over the field. Therefore, it was a defensive penalty and would have nullified anything after the penalty. The game can’t end on a defensive penalty, so we would have had a free play.

by Purpledork on Dec 11, 2011 11:06 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm arguing with a Seahawks fan at the moment.

The guy is trying to defend T-Jack as a passer. sigh

Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.

by free7694 on Dec 11, 2011 11:11 PM CST reply actions  

TJack was a great passer.

Until the ball was snapped and panic set in.

by Purpledork on Dec 11, 2011 11:15 PM CST up reply actions  

i could imagine him freaking out

And thinking he had voices in his head when the plays were called into his helmet

by Lunchpail on Dec 11, 2011 11:20 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Webb is obviously a lousy passer

but look at what he does with the ball in his hands. He should be playing at WR and we need to do something different at backup QB next season.

by Bodysuit Man on Dec 11, 2011 11:16 PM CST reply actions  

Like Matt Barkley or RG3 ...

I just think we need to take a serious look at these guys vs CP7 before trading down.

by Torstein on Dec 12, 2011 2:08 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Spending two high picks in two years on one position

Is a great way to make your team suck for extended stretches of years. The game is played with 22 starters. You can’t just focus on being the best at one position.

by amiller92 on Dec 12, 2011 7:48 AM CST up reply actions  

Re: Musgrave

The play that you referenced from the Denver game, Harvin was not the only receiver running a route on that play. Ponder made a poor decision and tried to force it to Harvin instead of taking what the defense gave him. That one’s on Ponder, not Musgrave.

I think Musgrave will be okay once he gets a full offseason. We have to remember that he hasn’t put in the whole playbook. Again I reference the size of his game day play sheet, it’s gotten a little bigger, but still the size of a 4×6 index card, it used to be on a 3×5.

"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen

by NMVike on Dec 11, 2011 11:17 PM CST reply actions  

Haha! I hope you're right.

It bothers me though that it takes reporters asking him why Percy Harvin is on the sideline when we’re in the red zone for him to take notice. On the last play of the game I thought I saw Harvin in the slot right with the DB a couple yards deep in the endzone. Favre would’ve flipped a pass to Percy with a dive for the goal-line.

by Caretaker QB on Dec 12, 2011 12:46 AM CST up reply actions  

The missed face mask call was an integrity of the game type no call. It’s for the game! As small as an official can come up in a moment, this took the cake. For all of the exceptable mistakes officials make each and every Sunday, you have to get the goalline, for the game calls right. This is more egregious than the roughing the passer non-call that led to an int in the superdome on that faithful evening two years ago. Okay, it’s not.

You have to make the right calls in the most critical moments of a game.

by LoveHate on Dec 12, 2011 12:58 AM CST reply actions  

I was scared to come on here cuz i thought i was going to see "Webb for QB" stuff

But I am glad that we have a smarter fan base than that! I thought the guy was freaking amazing, but lets be real here…the guy has like the ugliest throw in the world. I dont know if he was nervous or what, but some of his throws were so confusingly awful! But i do think he should be more involved in our system. The guy is a dynamic playmaker, not a starting QB, but i like the wildcat or him as a PR or KR or WR or maybe even RB! The guy is an amazing athlete and a playmaker that is for sure, so i can see the wildcat becoming a big play for us because teams will have to load the box with him and AP, but then he could throw the deep ball to DA…I dont know its a possibility, i just hope the front office is not as fickle as some fans and try and get a QB. There is a lot of talent in this years draft and we really are a secondary away from being a good team again. The WR have been shaky but there is potential and I am excited for next year thats for sure! I apologize for the awful organization of this post, give me a break its 1:30

by Carson R on Dec 12, 2011 1:22 AM CST reply actions  

Oh I am so wrong

We need a O line i dont know how i missed that…impossible to miss

by Carson R on Dec 12, 2011 1:33 AM CST up reply actions  

youre not the only one

Opposing defensive linemen haven’t seen them in weeks

by Lunchpail on Dec 12, 2011 2:40 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

The loss was my fault.

Yesterday in the FF thread here, I said I wasn’t going to be able to watch the Vikings-Lions game. Since I wasn’t able to watch the games against Carolina and Arizona, this guaranteed a Minnesota win.

Unfortunately, on my ice-fishing trip I stopped at a grocery store in Lacrosse, Wisconsin, to purchase some New Glarus products. (One of the things the cheddarheads admittedly do well.)

When I walked in, I noticed several things: everyone in the liquor section of the store was wearing Packer gear, the store had a flat screen TV on the wall, and the Packer fans were all laughing at something. Turned out the Vikings were down 21-0 in the first quarter, and the clerk had flipped to that game.Then the clerk and customers saw my Viking hat, and laughed at me.

So I saw about two minutes of the Viking-Lion game after all, and I figure that was just enough to blow the comeback in the second half.

by Midnight Rambler on Dec 12, 2011 5:53 AM CST reply actions  

Way to go man.

This falls squarely on your shoulders. :P

SKOL Vikings!

by CCNorsemen on Dec 12, 2011 9:08 AM CST up reply actions  

Ted, do you actually watch other teams play?

" Nor do I generally believe that, also like the NBA, certain players are given ‘the benefit of the doubt’ on calls while lesser players of the same position don’t get calls."

Makes me wonder how much football you watch outside of the Vikings. Brady gets every call you can imagine; yesterday he got a freebie when he slid late and the defender hit him with a forearm in the chest. Completely legal hit, but the ref flagged it saying it was a forearm to the head. Replay clearly showed it was a bad flag.

And it doesn’t stop there. The Steelers’ Harrison gets phantom calls and fines for hits that are legal too. When he was playing, Peyton Manning used to get away with all kinds of stuff too.

The NFL has its favorites and everyone knows who they are.

by Ragnar on Dec 12, 2011 7:17 AM CST reply actions  

Yeah I do

Brady also got his knee taken out by the Chiefs and missed an entire year, and no flag was called. I watch a lot of football, and every team gets a crappy call go against them in every game. At least one, if not more.

"Go hard. I mean, like relentless. I want a bunch of coaches that coach like their hair’s on fire, and I want a football team that goes for four to six seconds (per play) with relentless effort." OSU Coach Urban Meyer.

The Daily Norseman
Off Tackle Empire

by Ted Glover on Dec 12, 2011 8:11 AM CST up reply actions  

Yes, no flag

Because it wasn’t against the rules.

by Ragnar on Dec 12, 2011 9:01 AM CST up reply actions  

True but there are definitely players that get "respect" calls.

Charles Woodson commits a penalty on every snap he plays yet only draws one consistent flag per game. I’ll also say that the Vikings drew more roughing the passer flags than I’ve ever seen when Favre was the QB here. By the way, the play Brady was taken out on wasn’t a flag because that wasn’t against the rules at the time. That’s why they call it the “Brady” rule.

NFL refs are bad and they do favor stars when it comes to judgement calls. It sucks but at least it’s not NBA bad yet, except for Jeff Triplette who is by far the worst ref in professional sports at the moment.

by CanadianViking on Dec 12, 2011 2:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Finish line is in sight... blurry sight
But we’re not quitters, Viking faithful. We’re three games from the finish, and we’re going to kick it in to high gear and finish strong. We’ll be damned if some 11 year old girl is going to beat us.

Because the sooner this ends, the sooner we can shower and get the smell of 2011 off of us.

Rec’ed

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Dec 12, 2011 7:44 AM CST reply actions  

Ted - One of your best SMRs

Thanks for making me chuckle… needed it after that game!

Vikings Valhalla .com

by Admiral BigGun on Dec 12, 2011 8:39 AM CST reply actions  

Also, on the first play

You could tell pre-snap that Loadholtnwasnt going to be able to get to a speed rusher lined up that wide. Someone needs to recognize that and either get him help or get rid of the ball before Avril gets there.

by amiller92 on Dec 12, 2011 8:51 AM CST reply actions  

Aromashodu and Camarillo

As much as I want to agree with you about them being solid investments, I just can’t. The only reason these guys are on the field is because Berrian turned out to still suck, and Jenkins is on IR. And their performances, as you said, have been up and down.

Aromashodu was drafted in in the 7th round of the 2006 draft by the Dolphins, and didn’t make their team. He bounced around a bunch of practice squads for several years, including a brief stint on the Colts roster in 2007. It wasn’t until 2009 that he made the Bears roster, and appeared in only a handful of games during his 2 seasons there. This is a guy that has elite speed, and tons of potential, but in 5 years has yet to put it all together. It appears we’re getting exactly what he has been for 5 years: inconsistent, but brimming with potential. He’ll be 28 heading into the 2012 training camp, and might not even make the team next year.

Greg Camarillo is a career overachiever. He was a walk-on with Stanford as a punter, red-shirting his first year, and converted to receiver for his final 4 years. He was signed by the Chargers as an undrafted free agent in 2005, but after never seeing the field, was waived in 2007 and picked up by waivers by the Dolphins. He never had a prominent role with Miami as their #3/4 guy, but since coming to MN, has been nothing but backup insurance. He’s not known for his speed, but is known for running good routes and has good hands. Unfortunately, this season he’s only caught 36% of the passes thrown his way, and has disappointingly only caught 4 passes for 62 yards in the 5 games he’s played in, and been targeted. He’ll be 30 heading into the 2012 training camp, and might not even make the team next year.

I agree that these are stocks to watch, but “solid investments” these are not.

SKOL Vikings!

by CCNorsemen on Dec 12, 2011 9:27 AM CST reply actions  

Thanks To Those Having Toby's Back On This Post

I have said consistently (having watched Gerhart at Stanford his whole career) that if he became the starter he would average something like 4.5 yards per carry (some games higher, some games lower) and be good for 20 – 25 carries a game. Let’s see….at about 90 yards per game for 16 games……….that works out to 1440 yards on the year. OK…….he may miss a game or two and have some tough days like against the Falcons #2 run defense, but this guy is easily good for 1200 yards each year if he gets the touches. And what if he played on a team that had an offensive line that could open up holes consistenly and a QB that was a consistent credible passing threat. His pass catching is way underappreciated and his pass blocking is better than any other back the Vikings have. Oh…….and I think he converted a key 4th and 2 yesterday. Too bad he didn’t get a chance to punch it in for the winning score. For what it is worth, I think he has also recovered 3 fumbles this year and has not fumbled.

AD is great. And he has run for 872 yards this year on 186 carries in 9 1/3 games for an average of 4.7 yards per carry and about 93 yards per game. In a year in which he has often been cited as having a “great year”.

Toby is not AD. But he is not half bad.

by hoyaparanoia on Dec 12, 2011 11:56 AM CST reply actions  

BRILLIANTLY PUT!

Couldn’t have said it better, my man.

I wasn’t thrilled with the Ponder pick, but I’m growing a little bit of a man-crush on the kid. I think he could turn out to be decent once he learns to read defenses better, keep his eyes downfield (already improving in that regard), and speed up his release a bit. I think he’ll be there.

As for the rest of them………the safeties………the tackles…………the corners…………sheesh. It’s brutal!

by gotcrabs on Dec 12, 2011 12:03 PM CST reply actions  

Ted, Problem is....

I think I still have some 2010 stuck on me

White Horn Gold Pants

by DM_Purp on Dec 12, 2011 1:02 PM CST reply actions  

There are 3 that can take it from 9 yards deep.

I think most coaches would be fine with Patrick Peterson taking it out from there…

Sherels has had some nice returns, but yeah, he shouldn’t take it from deep in the end zone. Take a knee, discretion is the better part of valor.

We have arguably the worst secondary and the worst O-Line in the league, and we’ve been every game but two, with very realistic chances to win the rest. Fixing those two areas won’t be easy, by any means. We need multiple good players just to reach average in either department, overall, and that’s even if we don’t lose Winfield. But we do have a ton of talent at at least several other positions, so the sky isn’t completely falling…

by dumdristig on Dec 12, 2011 3:23 PM CST reply actions  

Agree with Ponder analysis

He didn’t practice until Friday and still on a very limited basis and he reportedly didn’t look very comfortable when he warmed up before the game. He’s a rookie making his 7th NFL start with almost no talent around him and absolutely no offensive line, what did people expect from him this game? He still has a lot more positives going for him than negatives against IMO and we have a lot more pressing issues than QB.

by ad296 on Dec 13, 2011 1:14 PM CST reply actions  

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