The Vikings' Stat That I Just Can't Get Past
by Christopher Gates on Dec 12, 2011 6:00 AM CST
in Minnesota Vikings 2011 Season
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Paul Allen kept going back to this stat on the radio broadcast of yesterday's game against the Detroit Lions, and I know I mentioned it at some point in the Game Threads, but I wanted to put it out there because I simply can't get past how strange this is.
Through 13 games, the Minnesota Vikings have faced 431 pass attempts, which is an average of right around 33 per game. In their first five games, the Vikings faced 202 pass attempts. Pass attempt number 202 was a pass thrown by Arizona Cardinals' backup quarterback Richard Bartel that wound up in the hands of Jamarca Sanford, and led to the Vikings taking the victory formation in that particular game.
That game took place in Week Five. Week Five's game happened on October 9, 2011.
The Minnesota Vikings haven't. . .intercepted. . .a pass. . .since.
But that's probably not a huge surprise. I mean, our secondary is awful, and everyone knows it, especially when one considers that we've been without our top five or six defensive backs for big stretches of time for various reasons. But here's what's so maddening about it.
The Vikings, counting today's effort against Detroit, have now had 229 pass attempts thrown at them without an interception. The Vikings are also third in the NFL in sacks with 40 after today's game. Here's how the team's sacks break down, according to the numbers from NFL.com:
| Player | Sacks |
| Jared Allen | 17.5 |
| Brian Robison | 6.0 |
| Everson Griffen | 4.0 |
| Kevin Williams | 3.0 |
| E.J. Henderson | 2.0 |
| Remi Ayodele | 1.5 |
| Chad Greenway | 1.0 |
| Husain Abdullah | 1.0 |
| Marcus Sherels | 1.0 |
| Erin Henderson | 1.0 |
| Antoine Winfield | 1.0 |
I don't understand why the Vikings' stat page at NFL.com has the Vikings down for 40 sacks, but those numbers only add up to 39. I ran them several times and don't think I missed anybody.
But unless I miss my count here somehow, of the Vikings 39 (or 40) sacks, I only see seven of them that come from a source outside of the defensive line, and those are the ones from the guys you see in italics up there. Despite the fact that the Vikings have shown a clear ability to get to the quarterback, their pass defense has been putrid. The only team that has a higher quarterback rating against them this year is the Indianapolis Colts. . .the team that still hasn't won a game. . .and theirs isn't even that much worse than Minnesota's. The Colts' QB rating against is 108.7, while Minnesota's is 107.1.
To put that QB rating into perspective, take into consideration that Tom Brady's quarterback rating for the season is 106.0, and Drew Brees' quarterback rating is 105.9. So, the Minnesota pass defense literally makes every quarterback they face (on average) look better than Tom Brady or Drew Brees. (Brees comes to the Metrodome this Sunday. . .that ought to be fun, huh?)
The Vikings have now seen 229 pass attempts since their last interception, despite having one of the best pass rushes in the National Football League, and quite possibly the best individual pass rusher in the game today in Jared Allen. I simply don't understand how that happens. . .I mean, don't teams just fall into the occasional interception? Something where a quarterback gets hammered from behind when he drops back to pass and the ball flutters into the arms of a defensive lineman or a linebacker? Or a pass that gets deflected at the line that somebody ends up grabbing? Or a ball that bounces off of a receiver's hands?
Not the 2011 Minnesota Vikings, I guess.
It really just underscores how awful the secondary has been as a whole this year. Yes, the secondary is missing players for various reasons, but it's not like they were exactly ballhawking when the cupboard was full. . .well, full relative to what it is now, in any case. I mean, seriously, when your secondary is to the point where you're actually waiting for the return of Asher Allen to give your secondary a boost, things are bad.
The entire secondary needs to be overhauled, and I have a feeling that a lot of heads are going to roll this off-season because of stuff just like this.
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With this defensive backfield...
… do you honestly expect anything else, we have inexperience at safety, ineptitude at corner, and loss of athletic ability at middle linebacker. This unit needs a complete overhaul, with Winfield moving to safety, and Cook possibly returning at corner assuming his legal issues can be put behind him. Asher Allen is a backup at best, and Sherels will be a great returner, once he realises that he needs to walk away from punts landing inside the 10 yard line. We need an upcoming shutdown corner, and an athletic safety to compliment Winfield. EJ needs to rebound big time next season, or he should be replaced with a cheaper alternative – but with a bigger upside.
by blowfishes on Dec 12, 2011 6:28 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Jasper Brinkley, anyone?
EJ needs to rebound big time next season, or he should be replaced with a cheaper alternative – but with a bigger upside.
Brinkley
I think his injury had a bigger impact than we realized at the beginning of the season. Both EJ and Greenway disappear by the 4th in almost every game. (Although Greenway has had some quality games as of late)
I agree, If Brinkley comes back to form I think our LB position isn’t in as bad of shape as it seems right now.
The numbers may not add up
Because of that team sack on Rodgers when he fumbled the ball
by travonino on Dec 12, 2011 7:08 AM CST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Wow.
“The Minnesota Vikings haven’t. . .intercepted. . .a pass. . .since [October 5]”.
If anyone can find a way to make that stat sound less awful than it is, have at it.
by Midnight Rambler on Dec 12, 2011 7:14 AM CST reply actions
I don't even recall one time that we were close to an interception
by Coolio12 on Dec 12, 2011 7:16 AM CST via mobile reply actions
to make it worse....
according to Brian Billick in yesterday’s telecast, the vikes have THE MOST passing plays against them over 20 yards in the NFL….
and it blew my mind yesterday seeing Sherels covering Megatron…
Also according to Brian Billick
Jared Allen’s first name is Gerald.
by christian220896 on Dec 12, 2011 9:13 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
a few notes
1) on the sack numbers, Jared Allen’s 17.5 rounds up to 18 and Remi Ayodele’s 1.5 rounds up to 2. Someone on NFL.Com probably had their excel spreadsheet set to no decimal places.
2) On the interceptions (Or lack thereof)….it is difficult to intercept the ball when the intended target is a) wide open with b) no defenders within 10 yards of said receiver.
Combine all of these and it shows a lack of coaching at the defensive coordinator level, as well as head coaching level (because, this is still our head coaches’ defense from the previous several years)
Because coaches make plays?
If there is one area clearly lacking the necessary talent it’s here. No amount of coaching can fix that.
And Ced’s meltdown after failing to run with Youngband getting benched should make the overhaul easier.
and yet our head coach implemented this same defense in previous years
with the same people in place when he was defensive coordinators. We have all complained about how soft the cover 2 is being played. That is the defensive coordinator’s fault. If Frazier had come in from a different organization this year, he would be almost blame free (except for the whole chain of command, the buck stops with him part of it), but he should know what these guys are capable of doing because he has been their defensive coordinator for a few years. He has graded them, developed them, put together the various personnel groups and so he should know their talents and their weaknesses. Why he allows Pagac to keep putting these guys in situations where they get burned 99% of the time falls on his shoulders.
No
It’s the lack of talent’s fault. The defensive coordinator can’t waive a wand and make Sherels big enough to play bump and run with Megatron, or make Ced capable of running with a speed receiver, or make Asher Allen, well, not Asher Allen. There isn’t a scheme that makes bad player into good ones.
Nor is Frazier capable of making Chris Cook not allegedly beat up his girlfriend or keep Antoine Winfield from breaking his collarbone.
You are correct, though,
coaching can not fix a lack of talent. However, coaching is supposed to overcome bad fundamentals. From what we have seen of the defense this year (Outside of JA, and KWill) is that no one is wrapping up the tackle, no one is turning their head to look for the ball, no one is contesting a pass, zone coverage gets blown more often Hugh Heffner. These are not Talent issues, but rather coaching issues.
INTs
our corners/safetys also believe you can catch footballs with your back, since 99.2%* of the time they have their backs turned to the passer and never seem to be in any position to track the ball and actually get in front of a receiver.
*not a completely accurate figure. I’m probably about 89.6% accurate about that. Maybe.
by Odin'sDrunkenSon on Dec 12, 2011 8:45 AM CST up reply actions
kind of makes me wonder
if that happens so frequently to the entire corps, then is it an anomaly or “rogue” player? Or is it that their position coaches are doing a pathetic job.?
I think it's players getting out of position
due to lack of talent. Whether they’re just too slow to keep up with a receiver (Griffin) or they got out of position due to either lack of experience or stupidity (the rest of them).The coordinator can put a system in place but if the players can’t grasp it or remember their assignments, the system is useless. The combination of Griffin and Sanford on their side of the field has been the most painful thing to watch. Griffin lets his receiver run past due to either being really slow, or because he thought he had safety help and Sanford has been in a completely different part of the field. There’s no reason to think that with the group of guys we have on the field right now, that they should be doing any better than they are. Because they are terrible. It could be the position coach, but I just think that it is a complete lack of talent.
Sandman55419
Of course, think about who our secondary has to practice against…even our secondary can cover the likes of Aromashadu, Camarillo, etc. And the coaching, both defensive and offensive coordinators, suck.
by shane m evans on Dec 12, 2011 11:31 AM CST up reply actions
Our linebackers are also guilty...
Of being very poor against the pass. LB’s more than anybody benefit from a strong pass rush from the front four, as they are most often set to a read zone while our Tampa-2 DN’ers and safeties are playing pass the receiver.
Our LB’s really should have more interceptions, but appear almost completely endorsing this year in coverage. When was the last time you saw a Viking LB get their hands on a baLl, and knock it away?
Makes you wonder if a FA or drafted LB should be higher up on our off-season wish list.
I will not be PONDERing anything, ever again....I'm so tired of this pun. Maybe we could use antonyms to be different, like: "FORGET about last season, as we COGITATE about winning in 2011!"...Whatever, SKOL VIKES!!!
not endorsing....."incompetent" in coverage.
Stupid autocorrect.
Makes me so angry.
I will not be PONDERing anything, ever again....I'm so tired of this pun. Maybe we could use antonyms to be different, like: "FORGET about last season, as we COGITATE about winning in 2011!"...Whatever, SKOL VIKES!!!
So, the Minnesota pass defense literally makes every quarterback they face (on average) look better than Tom Brady or Drew Brees. (Brees comes to the Metrodome this Sunday. . .that ought to be fun, huh?)
Dude, you’re killing me.
The entire secondary needs to be overhauled, and I have a feeling that a lot of heads are going to roll this off-season because of stuff just like this.
Overhauled? As Al Pacino said, in ‘Scent of a Woman’, “I’d take a flamethrower to this place!”
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Don't forget
we played Aaron the unstoppable twice.
"Winning isn't everything but losing is nothing" - Ace Bricka coach of the Galaxy Aces
We stopped him just fine...
… in the past.
by HammeroftheGods on Dec 12, 2011 9:24 AM CST up reply actions
Our defense looked better than the Saints defense against him
Or the Oakland “defense” or the San Diego “defense”. We can play good defense becasue of our defensive line. Whether it’s Tebow or StateFarm(educate yourself), the reason we can always give up big plays is the QB always has at least 1 or 2 WRs wide open. We never force a QB to make a difficult throw. I can’t say “never”, but one out of 3 plays, they will be open. Anyone else upset the Bears lost last night? I would like them to be in the hunt so we can knock them out of the playoffs.
White Horn Gold Pants
pass D
the first few games of the yr our corners were doing an ok job our linebackers were getting killed underneath injuries and cook’s episode decimated our secondary ced worked his ass off to come back i can’t believe how everyone has thrown him under the bus he hasn’t been the same obviously and you have to go with your best but i don’t understand all the haters out there sherrold is too small to play db he will get killed and gameplanned against every week i will give ced a chance next yr to see if he gets back to form and move him to safety if need be he has been a leader on defense and is a no nonsense physical player i would be disappointed if he wasn’t pissed on getting benched would you rather see him smile and laugh about it? on that td it looked like the safety didn’t roll over and pick up the receiver hope winfield comes back strong he should play the slot for the last yrs of his career he’;s a tackling machine but can’t keep up with receivers at corner i hope ponder is the answer his arm strength alarms me i personally would have preferred to have tj run the team this yr and get a better long term player(tackle) than taking ponder hope the kid makes it
I don't think the Vikings have anywhere near the best...
…pass rush in the NFL. It’s good, maybe slightly better than average, but they don’t get significant pressure inside from the tackles, in my opinion. They have probably the best pass rusher overall in Allen. But not getting consistent pressure from the other guys is one thing that kills them. Consistent pressure is a big part of what generates bad decisions by the QB and interceptions.
They also seem to play ridiculously soft at the linebacker level. They let teams catch in front of the linebackers all day, and then tackle. I guess this is the “cover 2” defense, but it seems to me so predictable and consistently exploited by other teams. Our linebackers are never put in a position to get interceptions. Our safeties also seem to always play ridiculously deep.
We are focused on not giving up a big play and then hoping for a sack, which even with Allen can’t stop more than 1-2 drives per game.
The most depressing part is how the interior line looks soft to running plays. When we can’t defend run or pass, we are totally screwed. So I think the interception question is just one piece of the puzzle.
I think the Vikings desperately need to reload at defensive tackle. Unless Kevin Williams can rehab his foot and play at his former level, we need a new defensive tackle badly. The other guys we have are terrible.
by HammeroftheGods on Dec 12, 2011 9:23 AM CST reply actions
have you not been watching the last month?
I’d say KW’s foot is feeling much better, and he’s back to his old self. I agree that we need to find a replacement for Phat Pat, but I think our D-line has pretty good depth with Guion, E. Griff, and Ballard.
I’d like to see Ced getting a shot at safety before dumping him.
by michiganpat on Dec 12, 2011 10:04 AM CST up reply actions
Ok to be honest....
… I’ve been spending more time with my family on things they like, which is easier to do when the Vikings stink. So maybe I haven’t seen as much of the last month as you have.
But, I’ve not seen a lot from the tackles. I like E. Griffen, absolutely. I don’t see good tackle play, and I don’t know if Kevin Williams is going to be the same again. Maybe he is back to his “old self”, but I didn’t see it in the Detroit game.
Ballard, too early to tell. Guion, he’s a career backup. We don’t have a real DT to start alongside K Will., who has been less than stellar all year. His sacks are up from rather pathetic totals last year, but I’m not sure that tells the whole story.
by HammeroftheGods on Dec 12, 2011 3:19 PM CST up reply actions
Christian Ballard?
On the broadcast yesterday, Paul Allen mentioned Ballard as getting his first NFL sack yesterday. For some reason he’s not showing up on the stat sheet at NFL.com, but maybe that is the mysterious #40?
SKOL Vikings!
online 'journalists"
Boy, they set their bar pretty low to be an online journalist! When your secondary is nothing but 3rd string back-ups at every position (or guys on w rebuilt knees), you shouldn’t expect much in the way of INTs….this stat is the LEAST surprising thing about the Vikes this year. They were weak in the secondary for a number of seasons then got obliterated by injuries…can’t the writer come up with something more interesting then pointing out the obvious??
I think you make a valid point
On the other hand, I have seen several passes (the Bears game comes to mind) that had interception written all over them…and the Vikes just don’t seem to have a nose for the ball…. bumping into each other in the Falcons game … no where near the ball…jeeez! They look Keystone Cop-ish.
This team is the biggest prick tease I’ve ever watched! Something like 8 close games…..I’m not big on ’coulda, shoulda, woulda, but I see a team that could just as easily have gone 10 and 6 this year
by Paul Mooney on Dec 12, 2011 10:36 AM CST up reply actions
Why are you being such an ass?
You must have mistook this for Yahoo comments. If you think you can do better, have at it in a Fanpost, jerk.
And, this is a very interesting stat in my opinion. Even with a poor secondary, you would expect them to luck into a pick at some point. Not to mention that linebackers and defensive linemen get picks sometimes as well. At the end of the day, I attribute it to the secondary trying so hard to play their positions competently that an interception is the last thing on their minds.
maybe this will make you feel better.
did anyone watch how high school throws went for tds in the dallas/nyg game …. and those 2 teams are fighting for the playoffs. not saying ours woulda done better but defenses do break down in coverages not just vikes. that 50 yarder to manningham looked like he was waiting for a punt and was still wide open like it was trainning camp wr drill with no defense.
Just a thought
The NFL should institute a rule that if you go winless, you don’t get the first pick, watching indianapolis play reminds me of good the Lions were a few years ago, they atleast tried. Man i’ve seen prom dates not fall on their backs harder than that.
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