What to do if Kalil stays in school? Two Options...
A fellow Viking fan and I have been debating what to do if USC's Matt Kalil does in fact return to school as has been reported. He thinks we should take Oklahoma State's Justin Blackmon, if available, no matter what because he believes he's the best talent available in the draft plus he fills a need. I think we need to focus on two other positions of need, more important positions, before we go receiver.
In my opinion, taking a WR like Blackmon amounts to almost nothing as we pass on fixing one of the biggest holes on the team, O-Line. Since '07 when current Vikings’ Vice President of Player Personnel Rick Spielman assumed the role of being responsible for overseeing the Vikings’ pro and college scouting departments and thus drafting, the Vikings have picked 5 offensive linemen. One 2nd rounder, one 5th rounder and three 6th rounders.
Going back all the way to 2002 shows that nearly a decade has gone by with the Vikings having used mostly late round picks on offensive linemen. That pattern of neglect has led to the Vikings having one of the worst offensive lines in it's entire 51 year history, with one of the worst, IF NOT THEE WORST win/loss records by the end of the season.
Offensive lines must be built through the draft! Look at this years free agents and show me an offensive lineman worth signing. In fact I can't remember the last time a healthy, productive, elite lineman became available through free agency? Certainly no offensive tackles. My point is when rebuilding you must start from the ground up and as everyone knows you also must win the battle in the trenches. The one unit in football that has the most members and either makes the offensive side productive or not is the O-line. The Vikings starters here are considered mediocre to poor at each and every position.
The offense wouldn't look that much different if we just added another receiver. Ponder wouldn't be able to progress as much in his second year because he would still be worried about pressure and probably still throw all kinds of picks. Not only that though but Peterson wouldn't receive as much help because the line would still fail to open up and sustain running lanes for him on a consistent basis. Blackmon might make defenses respect the pass threat more, which would in turn open things up for Adrian Peterson a bit but ultimately a offensive lineman is the only way we can improve our ability to control the line of scrimmage and pick up 3rd and shorts or goal line dives.
If Kalil is not in the draft I would like us to trade down with a team in need of a quarterback. Robert Griffin III would likely be the second quarterback, assuming Barkley returns with Kalil to USC, to be drafted and I would think teams like Miami, Washington, Seattle, and even Kansas City would look to trade up for the Heisman Trophy winner. The Vikings would be in perfect position to trade down and acquire additional picks, mainly a second second round choice, and still pick in the top 10.
There I would like to see us target Stanford's Jonathan Martin. Martin is by no means a "sure thing" at LT at the next level but who honestly is ever a sure thing? Even Kalil could disappoint. First of all Martin's much larger than Kalil at 6'6" and well over 300 pounds. Where Kalil would have to bulk up Martin doesn't have to worry about his size. The big, burly left tackle is nicknamed "Moose" for gods sake. Has there ever been a more appropriate nickname for a LT than "Moose?" It leaves little to no room for interpretation about size or demeanor.
Hopefully Martin could come in and take over the left tackle spot from day 1 but at the very least he can be an all-pro caliber right tackle, which is also a big need for the Vikings with the way Loadholt has played. If Martin struggles with speed on the left side he can easily make the move over and become a probowl RT with his mauling ways. I think this alone makes him a very safe pick over anyone at another position we could draft.
Martin has made a name on being a tenacious run blocker who sets the edge well and is a good enough athlete to hit blocks on the second level. "He has natural tools," said head coach David Shaw. "An old coach once told me you have to find the guy that can do the things that you can’t teach. And you can’t teach a guy to be 6-5, 304-pounds and be athletic. And that’s what he is. He’s long. He’s got long arms. He’s tall, but he’s flexible. He can kick and punch, and a lot of the publicity he’s gotten is from NFL draft rankings, because he looks like an NFL tackle. Guys like that don’t come around very often to be able to do the things he can do."
Many say he has the ability to be as good a pass protector as he is road grading beast of a run blocker. since players are never finished products coming out I would have to give Martin the benefit of the doubt here. Either way, if he plays LT or moves to RT he is still considered a better run-blocking tackle prospect than many former high first-rounders. He's dominated the PAC-12 as a run blocker and pass protector for Andrew Luck. "He’s a tireless worker," Luck said of Martin. "He takes a lot of pride in being consistent and using the right technique … he sets such a great standard for the younger guys. He’s very meticulous, which I appreciate, obviously."
Unlike so many college powerhouses, Stanford does not spread the field to pass the ball. By all means Stanford is a power running team that happens to have the country’s best quarterback. They just jam the line of scrimmage with tight ends in a pro-style offense and run a metaphorical fullback dive behind DeCastro and Martin. The play that best encapsulates the revival of Stanford’s football team, which has gone from 1-11 in 2006 to a national title contender in 2011, is called 97 Power. Right guard David DeCastro pulls hard to his left to bulldoze a linebacker, and left tackle Jonathan Martin blocks a defensive end to clear the way for a simple inside running play. "You know it’s coming," Shannon Turley, Stanford’s strength coach, says. "If you don’t like it, do something about it. That’s the mind-set we’ve tried to instill in our players." "The roles those two guys played were so vital," head coach David Shaw said. The younger players speak highly of Martin, calling him, among other things, an impressive leader. He’s made it an emphasis that as a line and a team, he won’t accept anything but their best effort. "I really like those drives at the end of games when you get to run the ball for 10 straight plays," Martin said. "It’s a pretty gratifying feeling."
ESPN’s Mel Kiper’s thinks Martin still needs some work on his pass protection (Luck would disagree), but he might be the best run blocker in this year’s draft class. All that being said, I agree with those who would say neither Martin nor Riley Reiff, the other LT prospect worth considering, should be taken if we sit still but if we trade down a bit (still pick in top 10) I think Martin is more than worth that pick.
While a decent LT or CB prospect might be able to be found in the 2nd round, the level of talent is typically very different, usually with prospects projecting to have more extended development periods, or having more limited skillsets.
That's why I think we should trade down and take Martin if Kalil isn't in the draft.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now if we are forced to sit still and can't find a trade down partner, and with Kalil not in the draft, I would want Morris Claiborne over everyone else.
Giving Ponder some protection or more weapons to work with seems to be a good direction for the franchises first round pick but as important as it to start making life easy on Ponder they must start making life tougher on Aaron Rodgers, Matthew Stafford, and Jay Cutler as well if they are going to have any kind of success within the division. Playing in a division with some of the leagues best quarterbacks, not to mention guys like Calvin Johnson and Greg Jennings, means they can’t go wrong with getting an elite cornerback the likes of LSU's Morris Claiborne.
Sure taking Justin Blackmon, if he's even available at our pick, wouldn't be a bad pick by any means. He is after all a great talent. That being said, his impact on the game is not bigger than that of a LT or CB. A WR is not as big a need as either of those two positions for the team.
The Viking's secondary has been just as big a weakness over this season, if not more so, as the receivers have. Our secondary is simply atrocious. We've had all kinds of troubles at cornerback over the years. Injuries to soon to be 35-year-old Antoine Winfield, Cedric Griffin, and Chris Cook each have played a role. However much blame you want to place on the injuries taken their toll and slowing them down you cannot ignore their inability and just plain sloppy play that has caused the Vikings to lose many a lead the past two seasons. Cedric Griffin simply cannot be relied upon any further and I hope is going to be let go.
I hope we give Cook a second chance though. If Cook can turn his life around and manage to stay out of trouble he may have a future with the team. He's still young enough and talented enough to start. Antoine Winfield is good when healthy but his age will have him declining going forward and with his salary being around 3-4 million it might be best to let him go. The Vikings should look for an upgrade at corner early in the this years draft and as luck would have it one of the drafts best corners happens to be the best talent available.
Claiborne, who was named the Southeastern Conference Defensive Player of the Year by the SEC coaches, has helped lead a team that reached perfection this season against the toughest schedule in the nation as it has defeated six teams currently ranked in the BCS — No. 2 Alabama, No. 5 Oregon, No. 6 Arkansas, No. 16 Georgia, No. 23 West Virginia and No. 25 Auburn.
Claiborne is a better coverage corner than Patrick Peterson was coming out of LSU. He's not as talented as a athlete but not many players are. Look at what Peterson has done as a rookie for proof. Claiborne is more similar to Revis than Peterson actually. A good athlete, but not the freak that Peterson is, he plays with better footwork and smooth transitions and flip of the hips to man up with a receiver. Now that doesn't mean he's as good as Revis, yet, it's just saying he compares to his game more. If Claiborne really is the next coming of Champ Bailey or Darrelle Revis and is that shutdown type of corner than they simply cannot pass him up. Assign him to cover and basically take away our opponents best receiver and immediately the defense should find more success.
Claiborne also is known as a playmaker for that LSU defense. He has tremendous ball skills with long arms allowing him to make a break for and a play on the ball, knocking it down or picking it off. He leads LSU in passes defensed with 12 and has added six pass breakups, a quarterback hurry, a tackle for loss and 46 tackles in all for a defense that finished No. 2 in the nation in total defense and points allowed and third nationally in pass efficiency defense. Aside from Antoine Winfield our secondary has always been lacking playmakers.
He alone could create a few turnovers which is something the Viking defenders slack at. Whether it be simply not having the hands to catch it or just not having the reaction time to jump in front of the pass or maybe it's the scheme but not one member of our secondary can make a play on the ball let alone cover anyone. This season, Minnesota ranks near the bottom in team defensive interceptions (6) while Morris Claiborne has 6 himself this season and leads the nation in interception return yardage with 173, including a 45-yard touchdown return in the Tigers' 42-10 victory over Georgia Saturday in the SEC Championship Game in Atlanta. His six interceptions rank second in the SEC and ninth in the nation. He had 5 a year ago as well.
Claiborne also is a dangerous returned threat. He returned a kickoff 99 yards for a touchdown in the Tigers' win at West Virginia and is third in the SEC in kickoff returns with a 26-yard average. We do have Harvin but it never hurts to add more talent who can return if need be.
While the Vikings are known to run a Cover-2 base scheme, the plan at the beginning of the season was to run more man-coverage this year, which fits with some of the stuff we've saw when Chris Cook was keeping his hands off his girlfriend and on opposing wide-outs. Even with him out they have been running a lot more man-coverage then in seasons past. Obviously you create the scheme to fit the players talents so I think if we drafted Claiborne we could go down that road next season as his talents would allow us to run more man coverage.
Claiborne and Cook would be the ideal man-to-man coverage CB tandem but Winfield could also come back cheap for another season and possible play the slot and blitz more often. Teams can still run a lot of cover 2 (with the safeties) but play man under with their CBs which would allow the rest of the defense to be more aggressive overall. The pass rush would get home more often with better coverage and 2 deep over the top.
Plus man coverage against teams like Green Bay means they wouldn't be able to take advantage of those quick passes. You need a guy that can play press-man if you want to neutralize teams like the Pack that feast on quick slants in between the zones. With QB's allowed to get rid of the ball on the quick slants so fast the pass rush is rendered useless as well. Taking some of our best players on defense, mainly the D-Line, out of the game.
With the league becoming more and more passing orientated it makes having a quality corner more and more important because the studs that can jam and play man coverage are the only way to stop some of those offenses. You have to have CBs who can play man in today's NFL. You must. You still play zone with your safeties, but have your CBs jamming at the line and playing man bump and run. That's how a good, aggressive defense does it nowadays.
So if Kalil stays in school, and we can't trade down, Claiborne is the easy pick. Claiborne would give us a much needed playmaker in an otherwise abysmal secondary.
This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.
42 comments
|
2 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Although I like the idea of taking Martin...
Don’t we already have a large man playing tackle who excels at run blocking and needs work on his pass blocking skills? I don’t think that one is working out for us.
Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.
We did
With McKinnie… but I don’t consider Charlie Johnson an NFL caliber tackle. He should be playing guard or IMO sitting on the bench.
by WIPurplePride on Dec 13, 2011 10:37 PM CST up reply actions
Oh
but I believe Martin would be a LT, only moving to RT if he couldn’t handle LT responsibilities. Either way he’s an upgrade over Johnson or Loadholt and he’s a great run blocker.
by WIPurplePride on Dec 13, 2011 11:11 PM CST up reply actions
But that is what you are missing.
We have a line full of solid run blockers, that is not our problem.
We need a guy who can pass block…
nobody says Martin cannot
that being said, Kalil is coming out so we don’t have to worry anymore.
by WIPurplePride on Dec 15, 2011 11:57 PM CST up reply actions
That's what I've read as well, that Kalil will be coming out, the question
remains the same however, if the Vikings find themselves picking third (should the Rams take Kalil at no.2) then what should they do? If this happens it’s a pretty good year to end up no. 3 due to Robert Griffen and Matt Barkley likely turning pro. It should allow for some bidding to take place among teams like the Dolphins, Seahawks, Redskins and Chiefs (look what Atlanta gave up last year to move up for a WR). I think the Vikings could get some pretty good picks this year and the following year.
If they were to find themselves picking third, my first choice would be to trade down and select/target an OL – I’m with John Madden on this, a solid foundation should be built along the OL – hard to run or pass without a good one.
My only detour from this would be if a franchise QB can be taken…if the Colts should win out (not thinking they will) and the Vikings end up picking one then I think you go with Andrew Luck. Outside of this unlikely scenereo, I would go with an OL…although the DB out of LSU wouldn’t be a bad selection.
"the question remains..."
I just posted a fanpost article on how I believe the Rams will shy away from taking Kalil actually. Of course I have no ties with their organization, or any for that matter, but there are a ton of reasons for them not to. They already got a lot of money tied up in their offensive line and that may be a sunk cost but the fact that their starter there at LT is not that bad has me thinking receiver is a much bigger need.
by WIPurplePride on Dec 21, 2011 5:54 AM CST up reply actions
Honestly, if we turned into a run-only team, I wouldn't mind it.
Give AP a good OL and just smash the defenses teeth in. I’ve never bought into this passing league thing, ’cause I figure that if a team could grind out 4 10 minute drives with a TD at the end of 3 of them, that team is likely going to win.
Or they could pull a Broncos, and just score however many points are necessary to barely win in the 4th.
Problem is...
It has been FOREVER since a team with the top rusher in the league has won a Superbowl. This league is so pass happy. If you have a good running game then great but you cannot be run only. You use the run to set up the pass. It is to easy to stop a run only team. You have to pass, you have to be able to threaten different areas.
IF YOU THINK REEM SHOULD BE RATED ANY HIGHER THAN AROUND THE #5 HEAVYWEIGHT (AND THAT IS STRETCHING IT) THEN YOU ARE A FLIPPIN MORON, PLAIN AND SIMPLE.
by Edgecrusher71 on Dec 15, 2011 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
While this draft seems to be WR and QB driven
I don’t think we can trade down and pick up a franchise LT, especially if Kalil stays at USC. If Kalil stays at USC, and we have the #3 pick and Martin is there you take him. Our offense would turn around in an instant. We need help at LT, RG, and maybe RT(personally I give Loadholt a pass for another year, until he has better talent next to him than Herrera). Even if Martin just proves to be decent, just decent mind you, our run game jumps much more. Ponder could have more time to pass, and we could be in business. And everything you list of Martin says he could be something special at LT in the pros.
Now if we have a good LT(Martin), Hutch has something to work with and could bounce back a little for one last year. Sullivan seems improved(but Fusco was a great center in college, Div II but he was an award winner and could make a push for center given a full training camp and a year under his belt). Love could make a push for RG or we could keep Charlie Johnson who is said to be a good guard, and Loadholt who is a great run blocker our line could be much improved.
Lets face it, our offense is run first with AP, and that is not a bad thing. AP and Percy in the backfield is a special thing. Them and a road grader line is just what this team needs with so many good QBs in the NFC North, play possesion ball with good PA pass set in there with lots of screen and short passes to the TE/WRs. Ponder has flashed moments of brilliance, and with a secure Blind Side our offense could turn around in a year or two.
Loadholt has been given enough 'passes'
three years and he still can’t pass protect worth a damn. the problem isn’t the RG next to him — he continually gets beat on the outside. penalties are still there, too (they have decreased, but are still present).
honestly, i would like to see what we have in DeMarcus Love — if he is given a chance and plays well, i say plug him in at RT and try to trade Loadholt for what would probably end up being a mid-rd pick (or package him with one of our mid-rd picks and try to trade back up into the 2nd rd for a player).
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
I agree that I give Loadholt another year just on the basis that his contract will be up so he might actually get a fire under his ass and perform.
With that in mind, it is not Herrera’s fault that guys are blowing by Loadholt to the outside, that is strictly on him.
IF YOU THINK REEM SHOULD BE RATED ANY HIGHER THAN AROUND THE #5 HEAVYWEIGHT (AND THAT IS STRETCHING IT) THEN YOU ARE A FLIPPIN MORON, PLAIN AND SIMPLE.
by Edgecrusher71 on Dec 15, 2011 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
and then he'll earn a big fat new contract...
…and in all likelihood go back to underperforming…?? not worth the risk, IMHO.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
This year in free agency...
Will be very important and will indicate where the Vikings would like to focus the draft. I doubt any team will let go of any quality lineman, they are FAR too valuable so I believe they’ll at least try to sign a WR and/or a DB and focus on OL in the draft. If they can’t get a WR or a DB but can get a decent OL, then I believe they’ll be more inclined to go with one of them over the OL. If they do hardly anything (which is what I believe what will happen in terms of signing any big money free agents AND if Kalil decides to stay in school), they’ll look to trade down. Not a bad move, considering they desperately need younger depth.
by christian220896 on Dec 13, 2011 11:14 PM CST reply actions
This is ...
A good piece WIPP. I like your take on this. You should post more often.Good sound football thoughts I like it.
@}-----You've been Touched-----{@
Thank You
I will try to make more posts like this in the future. I frequent sports forums on a few sites and everybody says my posts are too long winded or simply TL:DR so maybe posting them here as articles is a better idea. Plus they’ll reach more Viking fans here than on some forum.
SKOL!
by WIPurplePride on Dec 14, 2011 1:03 AM CST up reply actions
Great view
I really like the scenarios you name.
If we can trade down and get martin, would be great IMO.
If we are however not able to trade down Claiborne would be great for our secondary if cook is comming back. It would leave us with a decent secondary. Then we just need to fix our safties.
- I think we have to adress the O-line problem in the second round if we haven’t done it in the first. not only do we need a LT, but Hutchinson is getting old, and he is just not the same anymore. our RG is not a starter in this league so we would have either love, fusco or somebody else to push him over in next camp. We have to change atleast 3 starters along that offisve of line. Sullivan is doing a good job this year.
Win, Loss or Tie Vikings fan till I Die
Try and trade down
while still staying ahead of the Cardinals and selecting Jonathan Martin.
"Winning isn't everything but losing is nothing" - Ace Bricka coach of the Galaxy Aces
Trading down and amassing picks is probably the best case scenario. The Vikings have so many holes it is embarassing. They need a LT, a RT, 1WR and depth, another TE, DT, LB, CB and S. While hoping Ponder develops into a franchise qb and AP and Harvin stay healthy for several years being on the periphery. It is almost like they need a whole new team.
that's what happens when you go "all in"
even if we had gotten to and won a SB, we would have mortgaged the immediate future. at least then we would have had something to show for it…
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
Paying Favre 20 mil was the all in factor...
That hardly constitutes mortgaging the immediate future. The Vikings FO failures, lack of player development, a coaching change, etc etc are the issues.
the FO failed in giving Chilly complete control of the roster
i’ll give you that — Chilly cut several young players who could have had a decent future with the team. and he stuck with TJack for so many years when we all knew he wasn’t the answer. and cutting Moss. etc etc. the lack of player development falls on Chilly, as far as i’m concerned, too.
but i’m not as huge on the regime change as other fans — the FO still nabbed two 1st rd ROY’s, traded for the best pass rusher in the league, and drafted several mid-rd gems. until recently, though, we haven’t graded out in the 2nd rd and late rd picks (i believe this changed with last year’s draft, though — still too soon to tell).
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
AP at seven and Harvin at 21 were basically no brainers. You couldn’t pass on Peterson and the Norseman had a poll where Harvin was the overwhelming fav. I wouldn’t pat them on their backs so quickly.
Chilly is an easy scapegoat, and he deserves his share. He is no longer here and we need to be looking toward the future.
they are no-brainers in retrospect
AP had issues with his collarbone, and Chester had ran for 1,200+ the year prior, if memory serves — RB wasn’t exactly a huge priority, esp for the 7th overall pick. and Harvin had plenty of issues that thankfully haven’t deterred his development.
again, i think this last draft will prove to be exceptional. a lot of talented young players that are still raw, but will have their day and hopefully show that our FO isn’t as inept as many fans think.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
Just take Martin and be done with it
It is really pretty simple and straight forward.
The Vikings gave AP the 100 mil deal. They need to get the most out of him. Also this will help Ponder’s development IF the Vikings are able to get AP back up to over 1800 yards per season.
If the Vikings did not have AP then I could see trying to get a WR high. But a WR is not going to help the team overall as much as a tackle would.
All this talk about where a player is ranked in these draft rankings is nice but when you look back on it a few years later some guys would not be drafted where they were originally taken. So if you get your guy and he plays very well then it is not a reach. Like Ponder right? He was suppose to go towards the end of the first round or early second round according to many draft sites. Who cares now?
Jonathan Martin is a very very good left tackle prospect and would do very well especially considering he is already a really good run blocker.
If it were up to me I would be pretty happy to take Martin, Kalil, or Reiff at #3. And I would not hesitate. All three are good for me.
I would miss out on Blackmon but I could possibly grab a Dwight Jones or Mohammed Sanu later. I really would not do that either though. But that is for another post.
Pick up who we need at #2 or #3 we need the best LT in the draft period.
then :) we trade out third and move our second up enough to pick up Minnifield. we still have the comp third and this way we get a first round LT and a first round CB. Ah I can dream can’t I?
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
comp picks aren't determined yet
though by the looks of it, we better be the team who gets it in the 3rd.
Minnifield would be a good pickup, but at this point my dream would be somehow drafting both TJ McDonald and Xavier Rhodes… whether that’s one this year (if he declares) and the other next year, or somehow both in the same year… i can dream, too, right…?? :-/
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
BPA if a top-5 LT is not available.
That is, unless we get #2 overall and the Colts take Robert Griffith III instead of Luck. Then we trade down for all the tea in China.
I completely agree.
If we can trade down and get picks and still get Martin, then do it. But even if, I’m happy with Martin, Kalil or Reiff as Mark says above. Claiborne would be great, too.
"Like I said, I don’t think anybody on this team knows what schism is, let alone could use it in a sentence. I thought it was an STD when I first heard it. And I was like whoa, we preach abstinence around these parts." - Jared Allen
I agree with you WIPP
I’ve been saying all along, draft Kalil, if he’s not there try to trade down and draft Reiff or Martin, if no trade partners take Claiborne at #3. No WR in the 1st!
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
I'm surprised you don't just want them to use all their picks on defense
…considering you argued that the Vikings had a dominant offense earlier this season after beating the lowly Arizona Cardinals.
I do want them to draft defense
The only offensive player I’d want is Kalil.
Dominant offense? Me? Really? I must have had one too many trips to the mini fridge that day.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
I'm with you NMVike
Draft Kalil and then all defense, well at least use eight of our picks on defense.

by 




















