Project 2012: Phil Loadholt
by Eric J. Thompson on Dec 14, 2011 11:25 PM CST
in Minnesota Vikings
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PrintAccording to the Mayan calendar and a pretty terrible movie featuring John Cusack, the world is supposed to end in 2012.
For the Vikings and their fans, it looks like the apocalypse came a year early.
At 2-11, there is next to nothing left to play for besides avoiding the franchise's worst record of all time. In these trying times, the only thing that keeps us fans going in looking to the future.
We've already done plenty of looking ahead and speculating in this space throughout the past few weeks, but the Daily Norseman writers have decided to get a little more formal about it and create a new ongoing feature. I have decided to call it "Project 2012". Simple and slightly boring title? Yeah, probably, but after an exhaustive email thread between us we couldn't really come up with anything clever and informative that we could agree upon. (I suggested a few musical-based themes, but apparently Skol Girl has called dibs on every applicable song ever for future posts. But I digress.)
What we're planning on doing with this feature is going through some hot-button Vikings players and decide what their roles should be next season. You'll get to hear from every DN writer to get their opinion, and then you can tell us yours in the comments section and accompanying polls. Think of it as a kind of online roundtable discussion. Our first subject: Phil Loadholt.
Understatement alert: Minnesota's starting right tackle hasn't had a great year. The 6'8", 340-pound man mountain came with lots of promise out of Oklahoma in 2009. He has started all but one game since joining the team, but his durability hasn't necessarily translated into effectiveness. Loadholt's run blocking has been solid for the most part, but he has been an absolute turnstile at times against pass rushers.
While I'm watching yet another defensive end blow by Loadholt on his way to Christian Ponder during the games, my instant, visceral reaction is that the Vikings should can this guy on the spot. But if I step back and take a more cerebral approach to it, I realize that it isn't completely cut and dry. Like I already mentioned, Loadholt is always out there--he has missed exactly one game in his first three years in the NFL. And it is only his third year. Of course I would have liked to see progress instead of regression this year, but Loadholt is only 25. It's not inconceivable to think he can improve.
And with one year left in his rookie contract, keeping Loadholt around wouldn't be terribly expensive. With so many other holes to fill on this team, I actually think we should keep him around in 2012. If the Vikings can pick up a better player for a reasonable price and relegate Loadholt to the bench, I wouldn't be against it. While there might not be many people bigger than Phil, the Vikings probably have bigger problems than him.
But that's just my opinion. Here's what the rest of the DN staff had to say about #71:
Chris: Loadholt frustrates the hell out of me. He's a really good run blocker, from everything I've seen of him, but in pass blocking he's completely lost. Yes, I know a dude that big is going to have issues with speed rushers, but after nearly three full seasons, he's getting destroyed by guys that someone with his talent has no business getting destroyed by. I don't know if moving him in to guard would be a great idea, because quarterbacks are going to have a hell of a time seeing over someone 6'7" at the guard position. If he was willing to drop some weight and work on his agility in the off-season, I still think he could be an outstanding right tackle. In any case, I don't think he's going anywhere because he's still under a fairly cheap rookie contract, but hopefully he can show us more in 2012 than he's shown us this season.
Ted: Phil Loadholt: I say 'Adios', but with a caveat:
The Vikes got rid of Bryant McKinnie...and Charlie Johnson has been a major downgrade. But at least they had a serviceable vet (we thought) BEFORE McKinnie was cut.
Who do we have behind Loadholt? Brandon Fusco? DeMarcus Love? Will Scott Kooistra be able to play again, or is neck injury career ending? Look, Loadholt is a train wreck as a pass blocker, and I don't think he's going to get any better. As much as I'd like to see these young kids play, there's probably a reason they aren't, and that's because they're not as good as Loadholt.
Get someone to replace and upgrade, fine. If not, well, we're stuck with him until they do.
Kyle: My opinion? My grandma can block better. What, something more? OK.
I think Loadholt has been inconsistent and has been given long enough to develop. That said, his position isn't the one of critical need right now in terms of O-line: that honor belongs to Charlie Johnson at LT. Seeing as how the entire O-line pretty much needs to be replaced, I imagine in terms of drafting the next line, we're going BPA. Therefore, if his position doesn't come up, he's safe for now. As with all things, the question remains: "Is there someone better to replace him with?", and I'm not sure if Patrick Brown would make that answer "Yes". Now, for what it's worth, I'd love to just start putting DeMarcus Love in there, at least for a few snaps over the next meaningless games, to see if maybe he might be an upgrade. But if not, then Loadholt will remain unless his succesor is drafted.
Skol Girl: I wonder if his slump during the course of his three years in the league isn't, in part, a coaching failure. During his rookie season, Loadholt showed promise and it was easy to see why the Vikings drafted him. And, we also had Bryant McKinnie to rip on. Since then Loadholt's experienced a two-year slump. Frequently, when he's called for an offensive holding penalty is looks like he's using his hands to make up for a lack of footwork that would put him in position and give him leverage on a block. If coaching focused on footwork and technique can improve him, then I say the Vikings keep Loadholt. But if it can't, then I think they may have to cut their losses because, even though he's a 6'8" 330lb mountain of a guy, if he isn't mobile he isn't effective.
Mark: Loadholt has one more year left on his rookie contract after this year. And it is affordable. I say keep him through 2012 and put him on a short leash. At the same time, players often times do much better when they are playing for a contract. Sullivan is stepping it up big time this year and is probably our best lineman (if you believe Pro Football Focus). So Loadholt should get the same courtesy as Sullivan. The reality is they need him so it would be foolish to let him go. I think that Love and Brown will be better next year too. Fusco as well.
I hope Loadholt does a Sullivan next year for us!
So that's what the Daily Norseman writers think. What about you? Let us know in the poll and the comments section.
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We need a NT right?
He would be a behemoth on a defensive line and almost impossible to throw over coming up the middle.
I don't know.
Just because you’re big doesn’t mean you’d be very good playing defense if you’ve never played it before. There is a lot of technique involved in shedding blocks and getting to the ball carrier. He may be huge, but D-line is a lot about getting lower than the O-lineman. Hard to do when you’re 6’8". Partially why he might be having trouble now.
I've been advocating this for about a month now
he gets great push and is strong going forward, that’s why he’d good at run blocking, but is not strong going backwards (see him getting blown over by DE’s and OLB’s 90 lbs lighter than him)….a NT need to block lanes, plug holes….let the other guys clean up/tackle. at 6’8" he’d be even tougher to throw over than K. Williams
he’s way too tall to be an interior O-lineman. he’d be getting hit in the back of the head whenever Ponder threw…
You also need to know technique.
The reason the dominating DTs in the league are dominant is because they’ve been playing that position most of their football lifetimes. They’ve had high school, college and the pros to hone their craft. And that’s what it is. A craft. You can’t just throw someone out there who has never done it before. He’ll get destroyed even worse than he is now. He’s been playing offensive tackle most of his football life, I’m assuming, and asking him to go out there and change his entire view of the game and mindset and even attitude, like amiller92 said below, wouldn’t work very well, in my opinion. That would be a transition that could take 5+ years to get him to be a contributing member of the d-line, since the fundamentals aren’t there. You’d have to start from scrap with him. Transitioning from offense to defense or the other way aroundvery rarely happens in the NFL after the player has already been playing their position for a few years in the league. One of the very few I can think of is Devin Hester from CB to WR.
And I agree. He should not move in to guard. His size is only fit for tackle on the O-line.
And actually,
Hester was only in the league one year before he switched and even then, he had previous WR experience. After a quick look up, I saw that Loadholt did have some DT experience in high school and community college, but I still really don’t think it’s a good idea. He may have high school and community college level fundamentals, but that doesn’t mean he can get that up to a professional level.
Minor point, but Loadholt is a pussy. I think toughness and a mean streak are needed.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Dec 16, 2011 6:25 PM CST up reply actions
I agree....kind of
Ever hear of Matt Cassel? He plays qb for the Chiefs. He got his big break with the Patriots when Brady had a broken leg. He never played qb in college and never saw game time until Brady broke his leg.
Let’s face it, his prior experience doesn’t mean he can get that up to a professional level, as you say….but it doesn’t mean he CAN’T.
Brad Johnson was a college back up qb. He should have been a wr, I guess.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Dec 16, 2011 6:57 PM CST up reply actions
He's not a very good quarterback.
Outside of that year with the Patriots and last year with KC, he’s been very inconsistent. Can he play football? Yes, much better than I can and better than a couple starting quarterbacks out there. Can he do it consistently at a top level? No. But that’s a different topic. My point is, it’s just really hard to take someone from the position they’re used to playing and moving them not only to a new position, but to a whole ’nother side of the ball.
I agree it's difficult
i was just trying to point out that it isn’t impossible. Truthfully, I don’t think Loadholt belongs on the starting squad in the NFL, regardless what position he plays. He has shown time and time again that he isn’t good at what I assume is the position he is best at.
Agree 100%...
That kind of logic might play for highschool athletes, and maybe even college, but at this level the gap between skillsets for OL/DL is far too large to just switch positions b/c he’s big and heavy…it’d be the same for proposing a WR become a DB or a FB become a LB. Completely different position at the professional level.
well...
D’imperio was drafted as a LB…..
by michiganpat on Dec 15, 2011 12:56 PM CST up reply actions
D'Imperio was drafted to play FB
They didn’t switch him after the pick, they planned on him playing FB when they selected him.
More and more colleges have gone to a spread offense system that almost eliminates the fullback position. NFL analysts have been saying for a couple years that we’ll see a lot of future NFL fullbacks who played LB in college because teams needing a FB won’t have much to choose from.
At least two major whiffs this week
I might have to add him to my scoring.
Also, rovibe had a good point.
When a player is coming into the league, that’s one thing. Then he becomes a project player and can be molded. But when a player has been playing in the league for a few years, that is extreeeemely hard to do.
The problem with him going to nose is his ability to read the play
And more importantly to stay low in against the block. If you let the guard/center get below your pads your going places you don’t want to go.
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
Loadholt = Bryant McKinnie II
But I hate to say that I think we need to keep him and hope that we can get 3 other starting lineman replaced for next season. Particularly LT, C, RG. Then look to upgrade the LG and RT in the following season, if planet earth still exists in 2013, of course.
AWESOM-O is now initiating fart smell sequence.
I. AM. AWESOM-O.
One of my favorite South Park episodes!
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by Eric J. Thompson on Dec 15, 2011 9:24 AM CST up reply actions
Screw you guys I'm going home!
"Winning isn't everything but losing is nothing" - Ace Bricka coach of the Galaxy Aces
I voted for starting left Tackle not because he SHOULD be there but because that is where I think he will be.
If he was ever going to improve, this would be the year. He has the extra incentive of his contract coming up after the year.
IF YOU THINK REEM SHOULD BE RATED ANY HIGHER THAN AROUND THE #5 HEAVYWEIGHT (AND THAT IS STRETCHING IT) THEN YOU ARE A FLIPPIN MORON, PLAIN AND SIMPLE.
by Edgecrusher71 on Dec 15, 2011 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
That's a scary thought. If he moves to LT, I hope we get a left handed qb.
AWESOM-O is now initiating fart smell sequence.
I don't get this.
I’ve sewen so many people say ‘out him at left tackle’, seemingly because of the need at left tackle, but with little consideration for how poorly he’s already playing at right tackle.
In 2010, Loadholt led the entire league in offensive penalties — almost all false starts and holding calls. That tells me he’s either getting beat, or afraid he’s about to get beat. And the proof is in the pudding – the guy gets beat by LDE’s.
So why would anyone think he’ll do better on the left side against the league’s premier DE’s? No chance. Right tackle is usually where the failed LEFT tackles get moved to. He’ll never play LT for the Vikings. I’ll personally guarantee it.
Last Year
But don’t bet the farm on him. Bring in some quality backup talent and make sure Load knows that if he doesn’t up his game, he won’t be in Purple come 2013.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
But i thought
The world was ending in 2012
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by UnBannedVikingholic on Dec 15, 2011 6:14 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
just our hopes and dreams.
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
Grime
I’m not sure I like your signiture
"Winning isn't everything but losing is nothing" - Ace Bricka coach of the Galaxy Aces
I'm pretty sure I don't either...
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
Love the Project 2012 Idea!
By the by. :)
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
First off
2012 with John Cusack was not a terrible movie. It may have been rushed(as far as a plot and storyline) I thought the effects were pretty decent and the storyline wasn’t bad it just needed a little something more at the end.
Wow, i never even thought about Nose Guard…they might be something. But otherwise I’ve thought that right guard would be his best position in the long run. If not, then adios after next season. I would try him a Nose and RG before cutting ties.
How does a slow guy learn to be fast?
I’ve seen SlowHold operate for three years now. He has slow feet. I mean s l o w. Like his feet are in ski boots, and he’s treading in wet cement. Now, we all know that training and dedication can make a big difference in a guy’s performance. Well, he’s had three years to get faster and improve his footwork. Result: He looks slower today than he did three years ago.
Maybe move him to right guard and move DeMarcus Love to RT. At least Love has normally quick feet. Draft a great right tackle, maybe one other OL, and then see what happens. If nothing else, cut ties with Herrera. He’s a nice guy, but no longer an NFL-caliber player. Either Loadholt or Johnson can play RG or backup. I just hope the front office isn’t afraid to make wholesale changes in the O-line. It stinks.
Jumping rope, agility drills
Losing weight, squats. there are lots of ways to increase explosiveness and foot speed. The biggest issue I see with him (As a non pro left tackle myself :) ) is that he is late as hell off the snap count 80% of the time. Watch him sometime, his hand comes off the ground last of any of the line, and when he steps back he almost immmediately stands up. Both will slow you down add to that he weighs a metric butt load and it’s a wonder he can move at all. Send him on the rope couse, jump rope, tie lines, get this guy to get his butt down in pass block and his feet chopping.
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
It's not really speed
Its agility and footwork, which can be improved in the ways you mention. He needs quicker feet, not faster 40 times.
Good points
Plyometric training helped me big time with high school and college sports. Speed is speed and can’t be taught, but quickness definitely can.
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by Eric J. Thompson on Dec 15, 2011 9:26 AM CST up reply actions
...and the Vikings training staff doesn't know this?
That’s what bugs me about SlowHold. The training staff surely understands physical training as well or better than anybody here. It’s their job. Yet the big Load is slow to get off the ball and his footwork has not improved since his rookie year.
Maybe he’s running into the limit of human size to do that job. Maybe 6’8", 340 pounds is simply too much weight and too much pressure on the feet and knees to move quickly. It’s like Joe Mauer, whose amazing athletic talent is actually hampered (at catcher) by being too darn tall.
In any case, Loadholt now has three years of experience, but pass rushers are still beating him on a regular basis. For the health of the quarterback, you can’t just leave him there. Unless the QB is Joe Webb…then the line doesn’t seem to matter much.
Ballet.
Yes, I am serious. It is great for the legs and increases speed. Hockey players use it a lot to build muscle and quickness. Of course that is a terrible mental image of Loadholt in tights.
"Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game because they almost always turn out to be—or to be indistinguishable from—self-righteous sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time."
― Neal Stephenson, Cryptonomicon
what's wrong
don’t think loadholt could turn into twinkle toes?
Nah aerobic like jazzersize or something
lot of quick repetitive footwork based of watching the person in front of you. I ended up doing this as well as agility, ropes etc to get me up to snuff. The main thing is this he needs to be held accountable. if you tell someone that what he’s doing as good as he can do that’s all he’ll do, if you push someone every day to be a better player well, then there’s a good chance you can make him a better player. Rope drills for being last off the line, being beaten on the outside..
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
Ballet, Loadholt in tights?
Okay, but he is just one player. The front line has to work together in unison.
How about the whole front line train together using synchronized swimming?
That way, you get to mentally picture Loadholt in a bikini thong.
well then who the hell are you talkin' to...are you talkin' to me?
at his size
I think he will always have trouble with speed rushers. He needs regular help. The question is whether his run blocking abilities are worth that cost.
yes it is the training staff's job
but it’s also the front office’s job to draft quality players, the coaching staff’s job to call the right plays, put on the proper personnel groupings, etc. Just saying “that’s this groups job” doesn’t make that group good at that job.
Do you think a change in his stance could help?
I don’t know much about being an O-lineman but maybe taking his hand off the ground and firing out of a slightly more upright stance might be more comfortable for a guy with his massive size. It might also help with his balance and the false start penalties.
by CanadianViking on Dec 15, 2011 4:30 PM CST up reply actions
Not to be a Loadholt Apologist, but...
2009: Loadholt gets a pass, he was a rookie
2010: Loadholt gets a pass, he was injured most of the year
2011: Doesn’t get a pass anymore. We need to see improvement, have we?
His run blocking is great, we all agree. But, with his size, he shouldn’t be expected to be a great pass blocker. Our problems line at LT. If we can get the blind side fixed, then we can use TE’s and RBs to help chip on that side of the line.
As much as it pains me, I have to vote “keep Loadholt as a starter” for 2012. We can’t address every need this offseason. But, like Mark said, he’ll be in a contract year next year. If he doesn’t step it up next year, then we can move on and address RT through the draft.
SKOL Vikings!
Another Exactly
unless everyone worth taking except Mike Adams is gone in the 2nd round he keeps his spot with permanent TE help. Although if it dosen’t work out I think he should be move to LG there are other 6’8" guards and I think he would be awesome matched against nose tackles.
"Winning isn't everything but losing is nothing" - Ace Bricka coach of the Galaxy Aces
Yup, saved me typing it myself.
While I’m sure he could improve his quickness and pass-block technique (more practice time against Jared?), we can’t expect each line position to have a complete player. Focus on that top-shelf LT, and we can do more to play to the strengths and support the weaknesses of the rest of the line.
What about DeMarcus Love?
Saw him in preseason this year, and the guy impressed me. He’s big, strong, and has quick feet. I swear, I saw quick feet. I was urging the Vikings to put Love at LT instead of Charlie Johnson, but you know how much sway we have here…about zero.
Well, here goes another nothing: DeMarcus Love at RT, Loadholt to RG or backup. If the Vikings draft two linemen, you know they’re going to get an LT and a RG. If they get a guard, Loadholt sits. He does fit the profile of a backup, he’s huge, strong, and not quite good enough to start.
Loadholt is just not a guard
He’s too big. He can’t pull. There isn’t anything about him that says guard to me.
But I don’t know about Love. I haven’t seen enough of him.
Could his lack of improvement be
Because noone had contact with the training staff this year? I know he’s a professional and all, and he should be able to motivate himself to do these things but some players need the push, and he seems to fit that mold. Give him a full healthy offseason and then grade him next year, imo. If he underperforms again, then cut him, but like you said we can’t address every need this year.
Other needs...
suggest we need to draft in other areas first…Loadholt is a spittin image of Bryant. I think they`ll keep him there now that we have a couple QB`s with some legs. I`d be more worried about the left side because Christian looks as if its gonna be a long project…hes gonna get blind sided on a regular basis because hes tryin to over think everything.
But yeah, keep Loadholt for at least another year, and if he improves, give him a little raise and ya keep some continuity there. The best offensive lines are almost always guys that have been playing together at least 4 years. If it were my choice I would try like hell to draft both those corners from LSU…probly not gonna happen cause 1 is top 5, and 1 is top 15…but you would have 2 guys who`ve played together for a couple seasons and know each others habits…same concept for the offensive line…keep em together.
Just try it...or you`ll never know
Ponder does hold the ball too long
But that’s because “too long” with this line equals 2.5 seconds, and even when he scrambles, the CB’s have no trouble covering our lousy receivers.
That’s one of the areas Joe Webb has a built-in advantage. When Webb scrambles, CB’s are scared he’s going to run deep down field, so they break off coverage to chase Webb. With Ponder, nobody is afraid of him running deep down field, so the CB’s stick with their man. Ponder goes into a slide or heads out of bounds as soon as anybody gets near him. Webb uses his uncanny running ability to outmaneuver defenders or run right past them.
Excellent write up and idea Eric
Loadholt is said to be an excellent run blocker but a poor pass protector. Well, the name of our game is Adrian Peterson so I think we should keep the guy. He’s young and releasing McKinnie appears to be a mistake at this point. Perhaps improving the guys around him will help his game, and the O-line coach and the endurance coach should step in and help him to maybe improve his pass protection. I don’t suppose that was his main thing at Oklahoma and I think we should keep him, There are worse guys out there.
Mckinnie
I don’t think releasing him was about getting better in the short run as much as communicating attitude and expectations. You can’t let guys keep pulling the same crap.
It also puts the front office in a position where it can’t keep putting off improving the line by settling for more McKinnie.
With those things in mind I don’t think it was a mistake to cut him.
It did need to happen
McKinnie showed up to camp looking like Grimace this year. He’s playing well for Baltimore this year, but that’s only after getting cut woke his ass up and made him actually start trying again. It’s unfortunate for the Vikings that they had to cut him, but it was still the right move.
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by Eric J. Thompson on Dec 15, 2011 9:28 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed.
I knew we’d see a drop-off letting him go, but figured this was the year to do it. If anything I’m surprised they didn’t embrace the move sooner and do more with our young guys at the spot, vs. slotting in Charlie J and riding it out. Still hoping to see other guys get looks there, especially when we have Ponder on the sideline anyway…
Considering that when Bryant McKinnie showed up at camp...
All he could do were conditioning drills, he wasn’t ready or able (the doctors were seriously concerned about his cholesterol levels) to fully participate. He was a veteran and should have known what it would take to keep/get his body in shape for the NFL season and he didn’t. It’s too bad it came to that, but it is hard to blame the Vikings for cutting him.
Life being what it is, one dreams of revenge.
- Paul Gauguin
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In his defense
Is it possible that the reason it seems like he hasn’t improved since his sophomore slump last year is because of his lack of work with coaches this offseason due to the lockout? Maybe an offseason with the coaching staff will help him get back on track.
Keep him
He’s the least of our worries this year. However, I would put Love in the last couple of games this year. It makes Love think he can succeed and it make Loadholt realize he’s not a sure thing next year. This way both of them enter the off season working harder.
Oh and the line coach needs to time every play for how fast he is of the snap. If he is the last guy up a certain amount of time he needs to be fined.
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
Don't like that Idea....
The fine idea sounds like a way to promote false starts..
by VikesFanInTulsa on Dec 15, 2011 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
Fine him for that too.
He’s a God #$@# professional and makes more money than most people who work 60 hour weeks. He has no excuse.
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
Well we are thin at OL...
… that I wonder how can anyone thing about ditching Loadholt at this point?
It’s like McKinnie. Of course we all thought and hoped he might be better, and he was extremely frustrating. But, now that he is gone, look at the drop off we have had. And the Ravens where he wound up are in first place.
I would say that no one is safe on the OL, and we need to look to where we can get the best possible player in the draft to upgrade, but we need depth too. And, my guess is that most of those guys will be back in some capacity, because we can’t turn over that many positions in one draft. So Loadholt will almost certainly start next year, unless there is just some awesome stud we draft to play right tackle in the first round.
Maybe make him a guard, I don’t know, but an he really be relied on to be fast and athletic when he has to pull? I dunno. I think McKinnie and Loadholt might be a learning experience to not draft guys that big and tall that are also slow and can’t get below a guys pads because of their height.
by HammeroftheGods on Dec 15, 2011 8:13 AM CST reply actions
Phil in around him - for now
I say keep him for one more year. Adding a new/better LT and RG will help shore up the entire line and hopefully make Loadholt a better player too. If he’s the weak link on the line in terms of pass blocking next year, it will make it easier to roll more protection to his side. As things stand now, the TE and RB who stay in to block are never sure where to help because all of them are getting torched. As mentioned, he’s a good – to very good run blocker so hopefully he can keep building on that.
But seriously, this team needs to start doing a better job of drafting in the 2nd Round!!!!
I see what you did there….
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Dec 15, 2011 8:55 AM CST up reply actions
Loadholt's problem is he's sloooow.
As others have said, he’s is very slow to be playing the position. He won’t get better, because he won’t get faster. And by “faster” what I really mean is “quicker.” I think Loadholt knows he’s slow which is why he’s so prone to false starts. He’s trying not to get beat at the snap, because he won’t be able to recover.
Also, Loadholt is poor in pass coverage AND ONLY GOOD at run defense when his man is in front of him. If Loadholt has to take a couple of quick steps to get positioning on a run play, he’s doomed. I didn’t think I’d ever see a 6’8" guy try to do a cut block, but I’ve seen Loadholt do it several times as a way to keep up with the play and get to his assignment. The effect was like watching a building slowly fall to the ground. The defender was past him by the time Loadholt achieved a 45 degree angle to the ground. Impact with the ground didn’t occur until the next day.
One thing I do like about Loadholt is that he seems like a guy who enjoys himself. In KC there was a big contingent of Vikings fans in the end zone seating area. During one of the TV time outs, Loadholt was cheering the Vikings fans. It was nice to see.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Effectively?
As I pointed out, Loadholt does not.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
He stands up to much in his blocks to cut block well
Plus he’s like 90 feet tall, it takes him 10 second just to fall to the ground.
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
If he were a tree...
….the lumberjack would have to call out “Timber” twice just to make sure people were still paying attention.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Loadholt should be a guard
His lack of lateral mobility and speed on pass blocking, but his good north/south movement translates well into becoming a right guard instead of a right tackle. He’d be a mountain on the inside for the run game and would have much less ground to cover in the pass game.
Keep Loadholt
We don’t have a right tackle on our team thats better. It would be another bad football decision to cut a player/release when you don’t have a better replacement. McKinnie was a terrible move. If the guy comes in way over weight its your job to get his ass in good enough shape. There was a lock-out, so he didn’t HAVE to do anything the team asked of him. Yeah, he has no self motivation to have kept himself in shape but when he’s still your best Left Tackle you don’t just cut his ass, you work the hell out of his ass. Show him that its much tougher on himself to come into an NFL pre-season out of shape.
SKOL
Keeping McKinnie Would have been a Chilly move
It says to your team that if you are a veteran, you don’t have to work to keep your job. Just show up and we’ll pay your for your past performance.
C'mon, now
Say what you want about Childress, he actually had a pretty good record for cutting guys that didn’t go with the plan.
Culpepper, Koren Robinson, etc. If he thought McKinnie was so out of shape he’d hurt himself or the team, I’m confident he would have at least benched him, if not cut him outright like Frazier.
i voted "Not a Member"...
…b/c i think we should attempt to trade him for a draft pick (should net a mid-rdr), or package him with one of our own mid-rd picks in April to move up the board (additional 2nd or 3rd is quite possible).
Loadholt is fine against the run, we can all agree there. but 50% of his job is pass protection, and he absolutely fails at it.
he has had three years to develop as a pass protector — and has not. if anything, he has regressed. either way, that’s unacceptable for a former 2nd rd pick. i don’t think we’ll see a drastic improvement in a 4th yr, at least not enough to consider offering him an extension to be our long-term RT.
let’s not forget the penalties and false starts, which were down at the beginning of this season but have crept back into the fold recently.
i agree that Love should get reps in these last three games to see if he is good enough to replace Loadholt. get what we can, cut ties, and move on.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
When you're thin at a position
You really don’t start cutting players. He’s better than what they have, as far as we know because they absolutely wont give Love a chance. Plus there’s only 3 games left, if we’ve managed this far we can manage the rest of the way.
by christian220896 on Dec 15, 2011 11:41 AM CST reply actions
His height
works against him on many plays. Could he not be coached to improve? More hips and legs, less shoulders and arms?
We need to stop worrying so much about the size of a prospect and concentrate more on
mean streak, work ethic, attitude, etc. I’m tired of these gigantic lazy asses that we keep waiting to “develop” while other teams start rookie 5th rounders. Yeah, I know it doesn’t happen a lot but it happens.
Loadholt will be the RT next year.
Loadholt is young and has another year left….
And I don’t foresee anybody giving up a late 2nd rounder to get him.
Besides, the Vikings have really done nothing in the past to suggest that they would do anything other than stick with what they have. :)
He's not athletic enough to plat NFL tackle.
That isn’t going to change next year. Move him inside to guard, where his size can’t be overcome by speed nearly as easily.
He has absolutely no shot playing guard
The big, strong, slow guys typically get stuck at RT. They just don’t get beat as often as Loadholt. If he can’t make it there, he won’t start anywhere on the line. Guards have to pull, and LT’s have to keep up with elite DE’s. He’s either a RT, or the world’s biggest, slowest center, and I don’t see that happening either.
Interesting reversals
It seems that during every game we rant and rave, yell and holler about Phil Load of Crap. We also have been complaining that our front line is our greatest need (because it don’t matter who is at qb, if they are continuously running scared, nothing good will happen).
Now when there is a vote and comment specifically for Loadholt related opinions, everyone says we should not only keep him, but he should be starting? Are we in some sort of weird parallel dimension or something? The dude can’t block. There are 2 spots on the Oline that are in horrible shape. Loadholt’s and Charlie Johnson.
Pick up 2 linemen, at least one from the first or second round from the draft (might trade the number 2 overall pick for a few later picks). The next glaring need is defensive backs. Should probably look at getting at least one through the draft. However, I think a big issue with the defense is that softer than a baby’s butt cover 2. Perhaps some decent (read as better than we have but not necessarily top notch) guys will exist in free agency?
understood....but even the peanut gallery here
seems to overwhelmingly support Loadholt starting. And that is what I am pointing out. It seems like every game we all want to get rid of him. But now, most everyone is back tracking on that a bit.
At this time, the choice with the most votes is “Starting right tackle” at 40% or 346 votes. Seems to me that the comment section and the vote compliment one another.
Loadholt is bad
but the alternatives are worse.
"Winning isn't everything but losing is nothing" - Ace Bricka coach of the Galaxy Aces
Excatly. Loadholt is a liability, but I think we need to replace some others first.
Than the following year find a replacement upgrade for Loadholt.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Dec 16, 2011 7:01 PM CST up reply actions
He should be giving his best this season
sure next year is the contract year, but the front office and the business side of things look over the entire history, not just the final year of the contract.
Part of the discussion about Ponder's health and education
is that there is no time for plays to develop….because he is getting hit on every play. The same happened to Favre last year. You can’t get your offense going at all until you lock down the offensive line. You can’t throw the deep ball when the qb only has 2 seconds to throw. That means that AP isn’t helped out at all by having a throwing qb without a front line. Let’s face it, the name of the game is score more than your opponents. Strong defenses make it easier, as the offense doesn’t have to score as much. But, you can have a strong defense and no offense still loses. The greatest need is offensive line.
I don't know how replacing him would be worse
I mean, defenders get by him like he isn’t even there. You could have 4 guys on the line instead of 5 and not notice any difference.
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