Vikings' Defense Apparently Good Enough To Ignore Coaches

by Christopher Gates on Dec 16, 2011 9:18 PM CST in Minnesota Vikings 2011 Season

When you're talking about a defense that ranks 30th out of 32 NFL teams in points allowed, usually there's plenty of blame to be spread around between the players and the coaching staff.

How, then, is the blame to be spread when the players, apparently, take it upon themselves to ignore the coaching staff all together?

According to two sources, a group of defensive backs raised concerns about Pagac's play-calling -- specifically, the timing and frequency of blitzes and man-coverage calls -- within the first month of the season.

At times, some players simply refused to play the defenses called, yelling out their own coverages as they broke the huddle. Tension mounted among players who felt the issues weren't run up the flagpole and coaches who disagreed on how to proceed with an increasingly depleted group.

"There's so many different ways to do it to protect themselves, especially with a beat-up secondary," a source said. "(Players) don't want to play some of the calls, just because they don't have confidence in it."

Wait, wait, wait. . .the defensive backs on this team are concerned with Fred Pagac's play calling? The freakin' defensive backs? Are you freakin' joking me? Every single non-Antoine Winfield member of Minnesota's defensive backfield this season has looked like absolute garbage, and they want to try to overrule the coach?

I get that Fred Pagac isn't going to be back as Minnesota's defensive coordinator next year. There might not be a single coach on Minnesota's entire defensive staff that is in the employ of the Minnesota Vikings in 2012. But if this is even remotely true, there had better be a huge damn line of people following Pagac and company out the door, because that is absolutely unacceptable. The coaches are the coaches for a reason. . .run the damn defense that's called and try doing your damn jobs. If you were good enough to freelance, you wouldn't be 30th in the NFL in points allowed.

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Comments

As much as i wan't Kalil

is it worth it to trade down and begin to overhaul our defensive back field?

by muffin man on Dec 16, 2011 9:21 PM CST reply actions

No.

They can find some other way to get depth, but a cornerstone LT isn’t going to just fall in our laps in FA or later in the draft.

by REVENGE4KLUWE on Dec 16, 2011 11:08 PM CST up reply actions

Yes!

by TexasViking on Dec 17, 2011 10:16 AM CST up reply actions

I agree with you Revenge4Kluwe

by TexasViking on Dec 17, 2011 10:17 AM CST up reply actions

It makes you wonder

if the poor performance is due to the playcalling or due to the players ignoring the playcalling…

by PurpleX on Dec 16, 2011 9:21 PM CST reply actions

Yes.

SKOL Vikings!

by CCNorsemen on Dec 16, 2011 9:24 PM CST up reply actions

Yeah this is really bad

Like if I went to work and didn’t listen to my boss and just did whatever I wanted… man I can tell ya I probably would be standing in line for an unemployment check

you play to WIN THE GAME, that's the great thing about sports

by Grape Drank on Dec 16, 2011 9:25 PM CST up reply actions

my coworker does that every day

my dad is the boss but he metaphorically flips off my father and still has a job. Perhaps he has some porn I don’t know about?

Brad James

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With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!

by the new Bradfather on Dec 17, 2011 1:28 AM CST up reply actions

Probably a bit of both.

The execution by the players and the scheme likely both need to be overhauled in the offseason.

by CanadianViking on Dec 16, 2011 9:27 PM CST up reply actions

I think it's mostly due to the players sucking

but poor coaching and play calling only multiply the problem.

by Bodysuit Man on Dec 17, 2011 4:51 PM CST up reply actions

I read this earlier too.

Pretty unbelievable. It says two things to me:

1) Benny Sapp was right when he was quoted as saying that players need to get on board.

2) In my opinion, this may be the biggest example of Frazier’s failing as a head coach.

I hope Pagac’s find better players and a better head coach elsewhere.

"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin

by kcskol on Dec 16, 2011 9:26 PM CST reply actions

Yeah, seriously..

I mean, if this was a recent development, I could understand, but this started in the first month and nobody’s done anything? I would’ve benched the players that didn’t run the called plays. Set some kind of example or something.

by REVENGE4KLUWE on Dec 16, 2011 11:10 PM CST up reply actions

Remember...

If this started early in the season, I see no reason to defend Pugac. Before the secondary got wiped out, there was a string of games in which the Vikings had early leads that were erased in the second half. It seems unlikely that the dbs would follow the coach’s calls in the first half, and then decide to start freelancing. More likely is that Pugac was unable to adjust to the other teams’ adjustments, and the players were quicker to realize it than he was.

by Get Some Perspective! on Dec 17, 2011 8:17 AM CST up reply actions

D

this staff doesn’t know their ass from a hole in the ground from draft day to game day it is a nightmare the linebackers pass coverage is as LEAST as bad as the secondary why isn’t this as publicized? we get zero push up the middle and robison has disappointed as much as i hate to say it cook is an idiot,winfield is hurt, ced is trying to play on 2 bad wheels wtf do you expect? shit happens boys and we’ve had a boatload of it frazier is in way over his head and will be back next yr we traded up to get tj we could have gotten ponder much later than we did we franchised a popular player i like personally but is an average backer / tied up millions? come on we are gonna be the doormat in the division for awhile painful but true

by deadeye on Dec 16, 2011 9:53 PM CST reply actions

If by a while you mean..

a season or two, then yes.

by REVENGE4KLUWE on Dec 16, 2011 11:10 PM CST up reply actions

We could not have gotten Ponder later.

Dalton maybe, but not Ponder. And TJ was Chilly’s move.

by Jshore on Dec 17, 2011 12:07 AM CST up reply actions

Lots of issues on defense

Pagac had no experience as a D-coordinator in the NFL prior to be promoted in the up-shuffle after Childress was fired last year. While he was the DC at Ohio State from 1996-1999, in which they had a great defense and were a great team. But in the NFL, he’s been nothing but a linebacker’s coach, until the end of last year into this year.

Singletary must not be a good coach. He’s a great motivator, and clearly was an elite player, but that doesn’t necessarily translate into being a good coach. Results and actions speak louder than words. With Singletary, last year the 49ers were atroscious. This year under Harbaugh? They are formidable, and with largely the same players. Our LB corp seems to have taken a step back with Greenway taking a noticeable step back and Henderson looking slow. Is all that on Singletary? He gets credit often for developing Ray Lewis, but perhaps Ray Lewis is who he is more because of his own talent? The jury is still out, and I for one would NOT like to see Singletary in a DC role…not yet.

Injuries: we’ve got lots of inexperience in the secondary, and based on this article and sound bites from Benny Sapp, it appears there are major breakdowns in communication coupled with low talent levels. That is a recipe for disaster.

Defensive Scheme: There is a lot of talk about switching to a 3-4 defense, as if the scheme will suddenly fix everything. I’m convinced the issues run deeper than that. If we switch schemes, it’s only going make things worse.

Solutions? We need to bring in a respected DC with real NFL experience as a DC. I like Mr. Gates mention of Del Rio or Spagnuolo. Hopefully we can land one of those two guys. We need to gut Chilly’s old staff, and bring in experienced coaches. We need to primarily defensive talent, and bring in a few FA. Those kinds of overhauls are needed long before we even consider changing the scheme.

Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.

by CCNorsemen on Dec 16, 2011 10:14 PM CST reply actions

A DC that might need a job next year

There is a guy in Dallas that might need a job next year, yes that is a joke!!!!!!!!

by tccirclec on Dec 16, 2011 10:26 PM CST reply actions

How come people haven't been Benched, Fired or Released yet ?

Sounds like this started awhile ago, yet we’re still seeing the same shit on the field ?
It’s obvious that nobody in the secondary was following orders a couple weeks ago when they played the Broncos.…I can’t wait to see them freestyle the Saints :)

The season is a complete wash, but the FO is still wasting time and valuable experience on players that refuse to play the plays that are called…..Us Vikings fans are forever doomed!

by chaosg on Dec 16, 2011 10:50 PM CST reply actions

Anyone else think that maybe....

This source leak could have something to do with an aggravated Cedric Griffin being benched last game? He seemed to be the worst one of the bunch…..not being where he was supposed to be….letting go of the receivers with no safety help. It’s just kind of coincidental that this came out after he was benched last game for poor performance. Seemed like the DBs did a better job when he was off the field as well. Hmmmmmm.

by gerkvoltage on Dec 16, 2011 11:18 PM CST reply actions

That's a good thought and would make sense.

I hope that’s the case and not the inmates running the asylum.

by Caretaker QB on Dec 17, 2011 1:40 AM CST up reply actions

who leaks what why

Maybe the VIKIING staff has decided to keep the D coach so now they need to make the players the escape goats hence the LEAK.

Remember VIKINGS

by ZygiZag on Dec 17, 2011 1:00 AM CST reply actions

CONTINUED

wanted to get rid of MOSS hence the MOSS food LEAK. That leak would have never happened if they were happy with MOSS. The VIKES often LEAK things to get fans to move the way they want them to move. In this case it is to move agains the D players whom they want to get rid off at the end of the year.

by ZygiZag on Dec 17, 2011 1:02 AM CST reply actions

Paranoia

I didn’t think there are any fans that NEED a “leak” in order to be convinced that 7-8 starters on D need to be gotten rid of att the end of the year.

by Norselord on Dec 17, 2011 7:41 AM CST up reply actions

Wow. Just wow.

I have never, in my life, heard of such a thing happening on a regular basis in the NFL, from anyone other than a stellar player who’s also a long-time proven leader. Those guys are always going to have a say in what happens because they can be trusted to freelance. Usually they’re on the same page as the coach… or they’re history the next year. The F- guy comes to mind here.

But from ANYONE ELSE?!?!?!?! Let alone, the secondary, each man off doing his own damned thing?!

Holy crap. We need some coaches who can bring the thunder down on these guys and teach them what it means to have their freaking bones rattled! And if necessary, both Goodell and Zygi need to get behind it with both feet, this is unreal.

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Dec 17, 2011 7:59 AM CST reply actions

locker room

we’ll see how it plays out i think the locker room is a mess i don’t think our coaches know what the hell they are doing and the players aren’t dummies i also don’t get frazier calling out ced a few weeks ago that should have been behind doors he worked his ass to come back early and deserved better he should have been playing the slot to bump receivers and play the run more and work on his speed this offseason don’t know why we got rid of sapp in the first place he was starting to really play well when we ditched him for what?: nadda i agree that singletary was a great player and a good human being but that doesn’t translate to a good coach

by deadeye on Dec 17, 2011 8:47 AM CST reply actions

Deja Vu all over again

Didn’t Brett Favre drive Chilly nuts when he threw the ball downfield for touchdowns and first downs instead of executing the crappy offensive plays called by the OC?

Or maybe I was just dreaming that…

by liveforadrenaline on Dec 17, 2011 9:45 AM CST reply actions

Early in the season Frasier talked about his personal philosophy of allowing player input in game plan and tactics. It was applauded widely. Had anyone known the players had final say, well…