Toby Gerhart: Emerging 3rd Down Back?
by CCNorsemen on Dec 18, 2011 8:56 PM CST
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PrintI don't know if anyone else noticed this, but Toby had 2 touchdowns this afternoons against the New Orleans Saints. But, they weren't rushing TDs. Nope, they were receiving TDs. In fact, Toby was the leading receiver on what was an abysmal day through the air. With Peterson out the past few weeks with his high ankle sprain, Toby has seen more work than at anytime in his short career. But not where you think. Sure, he was the lead back in weeks 12-14, and he looked like the powerful, between-the-tackles horse we've expected him to be. He was a bruising runner out of Stanford, and that's exactly what we got when Peterson hit the sideline with an injury. But what caught my eye was not his talents as a runner, but his talents as a receiver. During weeks 1-11, Toby caught a grand total of 5 passes. Five. During the past 4 weeks, including the weeks he was "the guy" he's caught 17. 17!
Toby is not really known for his receiving abilities. In three years at Stanford, Toby caught all of 39 passes (an average of just slightly more than 1 pass per game). But I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that we miss a guy like Chester Taylor. C.T. was "Mr. Reliable" on 3rd down and was a key safety valve for us as his versatility as both a runner and a receiver out of the backfield allowed us to remain unpredictable on 3rd down. If Toby can continue to develop this part of his game and become a reliable receiver out of the backfield, look out. I for one, am excited about the possibility of Toby emerging as a viable 3rd Down Back. He currently fits into a nice back-up role for Peterson, spelling him a few times per game and coming in as the starter when AP is injured. But, after what he's shown in Peterson's absence, I think he warrants more playing time. While he may never be as elite or explosive as Adrian Peterson, the more we can keep Peterson fresh for key moments in the game, the better. Check out these receiving stats from Gerhart the past 4 weeks:
Week 12 vs ATL: 2 for 19 yards
Week 13 vs DEN: 8 for 45 yards
Week 14 vs DET: 3 for 19 yards, TD
Week 15 vs NO: 4 for 46 yards, 2 TD
There has been some mention by people in various comments that we should keep Toby, or maybe trade Toby. I'm convinced that Toby is excellent insurance for AP, and he's clearly a talented RB. I think he's more valuable to our team as a member of our team, as opposed to trade bait for draft picks. The options behind Toby aren't very good, so it doesn't make sense to trade him. I'm liking what I'm seeing out of Toby, and I hope he finds more of a role on the team in 2012, perhaps as a reliable 3rd Down Back, ala Chester Taylor. What do you think?
This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.
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I like Toby but for him to be a third down back
He needs to learn how to block better, how to pick up blitzes, and also he’s a change of pace back of the wrong kind he’s slow compared to AP. Toby’s more of a banger and needs repsto get warmed up and going. I would rather have him spell AP on 1st and 2nd down where he can wear down a defense all while giving AP a breather.
Probably
What you say sounds right, but I haven’t been paying attention to Toby’s blocking and blitz pickups to where I could comment on that part of his game. I agree that Toby seems to get better as the game goes on. Either he warms up, or the defenses slow down…but either way, he’s generally known as a bruiser. I agree with you on all of that. But, I’m pleasantly surprised by his receiving skills.
Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.
Yea, he has done really well with extended duty. Seems like he needs to break a sweat.
I like his tenacity. He fights for the extra yard. I think the bruiser label sounds appropriate.
If he could become a solid blocker, he would make a great Mike Alstott type of hybrid back.
well then who the hell are you talkin' to...are you talkin' to me?
Toby is a good blocker
He’s come along way since 2010. He probably picks up 90% of his blocks now.
by emeyenburg on Dec 19, 2011 10:16 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Toby can catch
But his poor blocking and lack of shiftiness makes him a poor fit on third down.
He's more of a bruiser than shifty
I can’t speak to his blocking abilities, but a lack of shiftiness isn’t necessarily a bad thing. It’s true that most 3rd down backs are the guys that can avoid tacklers and do well in space. That isn’t Toby, but a successful 3rd down guy is also a guy with reliable receiving skills and good blocking ability. Toby is showing he’s got the receiving skills. I think it falls on his blocking, which I admittedly haven’t been paying enough attention to to comment on.
Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.
He's not a bruiser
Hes a straight ahead runner who does not/can not cut or make guy miss.
Definition of Bruiser
A “bruiser” is a runner that runs “straight ahead” and bowls guys over. A bruiser is called such because they leave the defender “bruised” with the physicality of their runs. The opposite of a bruiser is a “dodger” type, or the type you are describing above. So…yes, Gerhart is a bruiser. He makes guys miss all the time though. He’s just not the shifty, juke-type runner (or “dodger”) that AP is. Toby makes guys miss by running them over, or running through their lame arm tackles. He can make cuts, but he’s more of a one-cut runner.
Check out This Video highlighting Gerhardt’s runs from his rookie year. There’s plenty of runs here where Gerhardt makes guys miss.
Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.
Fine
But he doesn’t bowl many guy over and tends to stop his legs on contact.
So what’s your term for straight ahead and not bowling over?
And AP is no dodger. Gerharts problem in finding a role here is that AP is better at both making guys miss and running guys over. AP is the rare complete back.
A complete back has to block and receive.
Admittedly, Peterson has been getting better at the receiving part of late, but he is far from a complete back. His blocking definitely leaves something to be desired. From a pure running standpoint, yes, Peterson is the best. However, Gerhart is less than a tenth of a second slower in the 40, and I’ve seen quite a few runs where he smashed people by keeping his legs moving on contact. Or did you not see the shovel pass in today’s game?
Did you even watch the video?
0:11 – Gerhart makes contact at the line of scrimmage and keeps legs moving to pick up the first down and then some.
0:26 – Gerhart literally bowls over the first tackler and breaks the arm tackler of a 2nd guy to pick up 5 more yards, and is then tackled from behind by a 3rd guy.
0:50 – At the point of contact by 3 defenders, he keeps his legs churning for 2-3 more yards.
1:00 – Jukes a guy in the open field, then rolls over the next tackler to pick up extra yardage.
I could go on and on here, but it seems pretty clear that your understanding of Gerhart’s running style is way off. I’m not here to try to argue that Gerhart is better than AP (that would be absurd). AP can do it all as a running back. He can be the bruiser type AND the dodger type. There are other types, but those are just the opposites.
Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.
Yeah
I watched. The goal line play against Washington he kept his legs moving and drove the pile.
Almost every other play he stopped his legs on contact, although sometimes he ran through a very weak arm tackle(wouldn’t call that contact) or didn’t go down on contact so he started his legs again.
Also, he’s had a whole other year since.
He’s a “bruiser” if that means he doesn’t cut or make anyone miss (that’s figurative, not literal). He’d make a good platoon back with a guy with speed and agility. But we don’t need that, as you say.
Against Lions Toby Gerhart gained 51 of his 90 yards after first contact.
6' 3", 209 lbs, long blond hair, moustache and beard.
As a Viking ought to be ;-)
Both good ones!
Jerome Bettis
Peyton Hillis
Would Pierre Thomas count? His nickname is “PT Bruiser” in fantasy football circles.
Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.
ew Peyton Hillis...
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
More Gerhart Gee Whiz Stats
2010 Season as a Rookie
-21 receptions for 167 yards
-81 rushes, 322 yards, 1 TD
-Started Week 15 (Peterson out) vs CHI: 16 rushes, 77 yards; 3 receptions for 18 yards
-3 fumbles on the year, 1 lost (no fumbles so far for 2011)
Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.
I say
He’s more of a third down back that what we’re used to seeing. He’s surprised me this year.
by christian220896 on Dec 18, 2011 9:24 PM CST reply actions
I don't know how anyone can really rate Gerhart's blocking
I mean, he can only pick up one guy at a time, and that awful o-line lets them in 3 or 4 at a time. Putting Gerhart in to block is like having one coverage guy on a kick return…
It's easy
When he misses the guy he decides to block, he failed.
Watch the games
Especially last week. He whiffed at least twice against the blitz.
I didn’t see him miss this week, but he wasn’t on the field as much.
He missed on his block in the final play of the game, and his guy swiped at Webb.
well then who the hell are you talkin' to...are you talkin' to me?
You mean
He missed the man that blew by Charlie Johnson?
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Dec 18, 2011 11:37 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
No, Charlie Johnson let his guy blow right past him and directly at Webb.
that forced Webb to move out of his one step drop. Avril came from the outside and was Gerhart’s responsibility, but he didn’t attack his block, and Avril bounced off of him to get to Webb. Here, review this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vidrDXC3ug
well then who the hell are you talkin' to...are you talkin' to me?
What did you want him to do?
Jump on the other side of Avril and push him the other way? He was blocking his guy outside like he was supposed to. When Johnson’s guy got through inside, it forced Webb outside right into Gerhart’s block. Not Gerhart’s fault.
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Dec 19, 2011 12:02 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
First you say it was Charlie Johnson's guy.
But it wasn’t, then you look at the video of Gerhart wiffing his block.
I would like to see Gerhart attack his block so that his guy doesn’t get a free meal. But that would be talking football.
well then who the hell are you talkin' to...are you talkin' to me?
That was my first time watching a replay of it
I don’t like to pick at scabs. It just makes them stay around longer. ANYWAY. What do you mean by “attack his block”? He had the inside position on his block and his back to Webb to make sure he didn’t get to Webb. When you push a man outside (like a Left or Right Tackle would do) and the QB rolls left or right into the block, it’s not the tackles fault (pretty much the position Gerhart was playing on the play). It’s whoever let the inside pressure happen.
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Dec 19, 2011 12:57 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Attack his block means to thrust himself into the defender.
His guy, Levy (not Avril, my bad) was rushing towards him with a good head of steam. Gerhart moved into position nicely and then got set in a blocking stance. But, he just settled into that and allowed Levy to run into him. He got caught on his heels and was simply manhandled by Levy.
If Gerhart would have thrust himself towards Levy to meet him at the point of contact, he would not have been driven back so easily and he could have disrupted Levy’s momentum and diverted his purpose. Also, he could have engaged him and tied him up momentarily, which would have made it more difficult for him to extert his will on the play.
Think sumo wrestlers, if one guy just sits in his crouch and waits for the other guy to rush into him, he will get knocked backwards and lose the battle of contact. That is what happened to Toby on that play. If Toby would have attacked the guy at the point of contact, like he does when he is running with the football, then he would have been able to control his guy more. He did not explode into his guy at contact. He got beat handily.
well then who the hell are you talkin' to...are you talkin' to me?
If you sit in your crouch you have less chance of getting juked or swam or a lot of other unpleasant things
The pocket is there for a reason, when someone in the line causes the pocket to get blown it screws everyone. So yeah Charlie Johnson has a very real responsibility for this sack. For instance Jared Allen got a lot of sacks in the past because K Will and Phat Pat collapsed the front of the pocket. They didn’t get the sack but they sure helped cause it.
Anyway, attacking the block isn’t always the best way especially if someone is unsure of what they are doing back there.
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
Toby had a clear assignment, had a clear shot at it, and wiffed.
there is no defending that by deflecting attention elsewhere.
well then who the hell are you talkin' to...are you talkin' to me?
Great evidence!
This is a great video of Gerhart whiffing on a block. That said, do you really expect Toby to handle the DE all on his own? I put that more on the left side of the line all moving inside to block 2 guys, leaving Toby on his own. If you watch Johnson, Hutchinson and Sullivan on the play, they all bunch up together to two DT. If they had read the blitz better, Toby could have helped Johnson pick up the outside guy with a chip (which was likely his assignment). That would have left Hutch, Sully and Herrera (or whoever was playing RG) to block the two DT, and left Loadholdt on his own against the other DE.
But even more than that, part of the problem with blocking there was that Shiancoe didn’t stay home to help on the right side of the line, leaving Loadholt and his questionable pass blocking isolated. They sent an extra LB blitzer on the right side too. After Johnson whiffed on his block, that sent Webb to his left…and directly into Toby’s whiffed block.
At the end of the day, yes, Toby whiffed on the block. But I don’t fault him too much for it. The Lions just did a great job of disguising the blitz. They crowded the line with EIGHT guys, and only sent six. It confused our, dumb, slow O-line and the result (facemask not-with-standing) was a complete breakdown in pass protection. Yes, Toby failed on that one, but does did Johnson, and the rest of the line wasn’t able to setup anything close to resembling a pocket of protection. I wouldn’t have expected Toby to hold up his end of the pocket anyway.
Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.
It was his guy
So, yeah, I expect him to get a block on him. If he did that and got blown up, fine, it wasn’t a great match-up and maybe the only problem is the scheme. But he whiffed.
Also, everyone inside of him was matched up on a guy one-on-one. There’s no double team on a tackle. Sully and Hutch both take blitzing backers and Johnson the end (who blows right by him). Herrera and Loadholt are one-on-one on the backside too.
It wasn’t Toby’s only whiff in that game, but unfortunately I didn’t make a note of them.
Just looked at it again, in slow-mo, pausing, etc.
Actually, there were 7 blitzers, and only 6 blockers. Johnson moves inside to block and gets beat badly. That is the crucial breakdown, because it impedes Gerhart getting to the outside guy. With Johnson in his way, Gerhart had no chance to step up and block the outside guy. There was one last blitzer that comes in late that nobody blocks (by then Webb is contacted, so that 7th guy only comes into play WAY in the backfield).
I’ll admit I was wrong about the Sullivan, Hutchinson and Johnson blocking 2 guys, because on my second look at it, they are each blocking a guy (3 guys). But I wasn’t wrong about all of them moving inside, and Johnson completely missed his guy. Since Toby started in the backfield, how do you expect him to step up, around Johnson (who whiffed and was standing in the angle Toby needed to get to his guy) AND make a block on a DE that is already unblocked and bull-rushing? Sure, Toby could have made some contact, and I’m not here to argue that Toby didn’t whiff on his guy. But there are other issues here on the O-line that compounds the issue, so I don’t fault just Toby for this one.
Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.
You might look again. It was 7 rushers on 7 blockers.
And Johnson’s guy ( VandenBosch?) cut inside directly at the qb. It was a great angle of attack to pressure the qb. Johnson pushed him inside and he landed on the ground.
Toby’s guy came from the extreme outside, far beyond Johnson’s sphere of influence. Toby did not have to step around anybody, he moved up to confront Levy very nicely. He was unimpeded in getting to his spot to pick up his man just fine. It was in the execution of the block that he stunk it up. He just sat on his heels and didn’t even give any thrust. That was his error.
If he had, it most likely would have been enough to allow Webb to escape the pocket and keep the play alive. He would have still had Rudolph as a target in the corner, or he could have tried to run it in. Needless to say, TOBY WIFFED HIS ASSIGNMENT.
I credit the Lions defense a lot on that play, they played it well.
But I agree with you this, TOBY WIFFED HIS BLOCK.
well then who the hell are you talkin' to...are you talkin' to me?
Who was the 7th blocker?
We had our 5 linemen, and Toby as blockers. Shiancoe was the 6th guy on the line with his hand in the dirt, but he ran out on a route to the endzone and didn’t stay home to block. We showed 7 blockers, but only ended up having 6 stay home to block. We showed 3 guys lined up out wide, but had 4 guys run routes. Too bad we had all of 2 seconds worth of a pocket, if that.
I don’t know…the video is grainy and it’s tough to tell, but I see Toby stutter step behind Johnson before he whiffs. Seems to me that Johnson is in the way…maybe the angle of the video is bad…it’s hard to tell. Either way, we agree he whiffs, and his guy gets to Webb, but again, there are other breakdowns along the line, and I too credit the Lions for disguising the blitz and getting their guys into perfect position to take advantage of our sieve of an O-Line.
Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.
We typed at the same time! see below.
well then who the hell are you talkin' to...are you talkin' to me?
Clear To me
That here is quite a bit of room between Johnson and Toby.
oops, 6 rushers of 7 blockers
and the te went to the second level to block/tie up a linebacker.
well then who the hell are you talkin' to...are you talkin' to me?
I watch the games
and I have no idea what you’re talking about. Gerhart’s blocking last year was very mediocre, not bad, but he’s picked it up since.
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Dec 18, 2011 11:35 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Need more than that
I’m sorry if I’m not willing to just take your word for it. When I say evidence, I mean facts, statistics, or even video evidence. Saying, “he whiffed at least twice against the blitz” proves nothing. When and where did it happen? Is there a video of it to prove it was ineptitude on the part of Toby Gerhart?
I do watch the games, every single one. I often rewatch whenever they are available on NFL Replay. I catch the video highlights on a myriad of sports TV networks. But at the end of the day, if I’m going to make a claim like “his receiving game is improving”, then I need to back it up with statistics and/or video evidence (which I did in the post). Similarly, if I’m going to claim all over the comments section that he has “poor blocking” ability, then I better be able to back it up with some evidence. Since I can’t find adequate evidence either way, the best I can say is, I don’t know what his blocking ability is like. So, until you can provide some evidence, I remain unconvinced.
Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.
Well, sorry
But this isn’t a court room, and I’m not a scouting service or a journalist. But against Detroit I was charting Sullivan’s performance, so I looked at the blocking pretty closely on each play and I noticed that Gerhart whiffed at least twice.
I wasn’t scoring him, so I didn’t take notes, but I saw it. If you want to deny that, fine, but keep in mind that your not seeing is certainly no stronger evidence of his blocking abilities than my observation.
Not to mention that you seem to have looked at the video linked above and gotten what happened pretty much entirely wrong.
It's about respect
I’m not asking you to be a journalist, or a scouting service. But you seem pretty adamant about Toby’s lack of blocking ability and seem to want to take me to task on this. This is just an internet forum, but if you’re going to criticize a post, please have enough respect to back it up with actual facts, stats, video replay or some kind of evidence. If you don’t, then I won’t take you seriously (and neither will the other commentators I’m guessing).
It’s also about phrasing and semantics. You can have your opinions (strong as they may be) and share them, but if you present them as cold, hard facts, then you better be able to back them up. If you’re not sure, then simply say things like this instead:
“In my viewing of games, Toby has poor blocking and lacks shiftiness, which would make him a poor 3rd down candidate.”
“In terms of the eyeball test, Toby’s blocking ability appeared to be…”
“Without having any evidence, in my opinion, Toby’s isn’t a bruiser, he seems more like a straight-ahead runner who rarely makes cuts or makes guys miss.”
As opposed to this:
“Toby can catch But his poor blocking and lack of shiftiness makes him a poor fit on third down.”
“He’s not a bruiser Hes a straight ahead runner who does not/can not cut or make guy miss.”
There’s such a huge difference in those two approaches to writing style that each communicates something completely different to me. One is respectful, thoughtful and critical. While the other comes across as “matter-of-a-fact” arrogant, or at the very least, an unsubstantiated claim. Maybe I’m being too heavy-handed here, but these kinds of things drive me nuts on the internet.
BTW, I thought your Sullivan post was a great read. I think it’s tough to know exactly what his assignments were on each and every play without knowing what the line calls were, but it’s as good an assessment as we fans can do I think. I agreed with you that Sullivan is a good center. Like I alluded to in my comment on that post, he may never be an elite center like Matt Birk, but he’s better than average, and we’ll take that at this point. Anyway, no hard feelings I hope.
Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.
Sorry
Sometimes I’m posting from an iOS device, which makes brevity all the more necessary (especially with the garbled mess I put out in the best of circumstances). But the short declarative statements are not meant to be disrespectful, and I think literally every bit of user-generated content on the interwebs should be read with an implied “in my opinion.” Honestly, as someone who sort of writes (poorly) for a living, those types of phrases are the first to get edited out for effective writing anyway.
But, “I saw this thing happen twice in one game” is actually evidence, and it isn’t exactly respectful to respond with, “where’s you’re evidence, dude?” “I did not see that but will have to keep my eye on him,” might work better.
Finally, I would not think that my opinion that Toby is not shifty would need much evidence. That seems glaringly obvious to me, as is the fact that the guy does not make many cuts.
Anyway, certainly no hard feelings on my end. I agree with you that Toby has shown himself to be a good pass catcher, and as I said in my post-game post, I’m confused why we haven’t gone to him in that role more (or frankly to AP either).
For the record,
our little corner of the internet has an excellent group of fan post writers which are important, because it would be impossible for our six leads to kick out that amount of script every day (as I’m fairly certain they have lives to lead out the DN * ). But among the writers both you and CC are easily among the very best, and it’s clear the amount of time and effort you both put into the posts and comments. And there’s several other guys as well- too many to list- that contribute greatly as well. So anyway, keep it up.
In regards to Toby, while not having studied him with great detail, I thought he did an admirable job filling in for AP, and think he will improve over time, and fills an important role on our team. He does need to work on his blocking a bit, but when and if we get this O-Line shored up, he might have a little more time to actually focus on it, other than having guys immediately bearing in from every direction. I just think he’ll improve. I’m can’t think of who the running back coach is right this second.
- Not sure about Glover
Build up your weaknesses until they become your strong points." --Knute Rockne
I would say it's hard to rate Gerhart's pass catching ability off of Stanford
His only job at Stanford was to run over anyone in his path to the endzone. He is a good back, and is more suited to be a feature back. Imo, right now he is playing for more draft picks. We should try to maximize his recent emergence to get the most out of him in term of trade packages. Lets face it, he’s a slower less shifty version of AP and every touch he has is one more play that AP doesn’t have his hands on the ball.
I like Toby, and I was hoping the Vikings could use him and AP on the field more at the same time, and the best formation for it was the old PRO formation and all variations that could be employed with it.
I think we should trade Gerhart to Cleveland for picks
He shares a similar running style to Peyton Hillis without any of the baggage that Hillis has brought this year.
Now, don’t interpret this as me not liking Gerhart. It’s not that. He has talent, there’s no denying that. But with AP out in front, he’ll never get a whole lot of time to do anything worthwhile here in MN. Why not send him somewhere where he can make a difference and get a little something in return?
AP
has gotten injured the past two seasons for considerable stretches. Without Toby to fill in, what would we have done? Lorenzo Booker would accumulate double digit fumbles if he was a starter. What do you think Cleveland or any other team for that matter would give up for a running back, a position that is among the least valuablein the league right now? Toby is still in his rookie contract so he is relatively cheap, and has played well as a backup. There are far more important positions to wonder about besides Gerhart’s, if anything RB is the one position on the team that we should not have to worry about at all.
In regards to the question, I don’t think we should designate a back for specific downs. That just will lead to closed-minded coaching and playcalling. Toby needs to get his touches. He is probably our 4th best skill player behind AP, Harvin, and Rudolph IMO. You could potentially throw DA or Shiancoe above him but it would be close. Give this guy a chance to be a change of pace back and beat up the defense and enable AP to break more long runs. I think that would be his best role, as someone who gets 5-10 carries a game to spell AP.
J.P. Bedor, Editor in Chief of Odin's Eye
www.eye-of-odin.blogspot.com
Yeah...
If we didn’t have Gerhart for the four games AP has missed over the past two seasons, we would be absolutely atrocious. Last year would have been a disaster and this year we’d have like 13 losses!
Gerhart is a reliable back up for AP, but otherwise is nearly useless as a Viking. If AP is healthy (which he relatively has been) he has absolutely no role on this team.
Change of pace? That’s like owning an F-150 as your primary vehicle and Silverado as a back up. Two Pick-Ups!
by LoveHate on Dec 19, 2011 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Okay,
So what you’re saying is it’s useless to have a backup running back. I can see the purpose in arguing that we shouldn’t have drafted a RB in the second round like we did, but what do you suggest we do with him? Do you think we’re going to get something for him in a trade? Should we cut him? What do you think, oh wise one?
Toby is a change of pace back. He wears down defenses with his running style, and while AP is probably equally as powerful and faster, it doesn’t mean that Gerhart can’t play a useful role with our team. If you’re using cars to compare, you really believe AP would be a pick up truck? AP is a type of running back that isn’t seen but once every ten years. He’s like the fucking Batmobile. So while you sit there and talk smack thinking you’re undercutting my point, you completely backed it up by saying he is a “reliable backup for AP”. It doesn’t matter how many games AP misses, if he misses games we need a reliable backup. If our OL was good enough to facilitate a power running attack, using both backs would be very useful. We can carry the ball 30-35 times in a game with AP getting 20-25 carries and Toby getting 5-10.
J.P. Bedor, Editor in Chief of Odin's Eye
www.eye-of-odin.blogspot.com
by randymoss on Dec 20, 2011 5:21 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't know if I'd call it useless
Maybe if we would actually run the damn ball when we have the lead, we could see Gerhart’s effectiveness more.
He wasn’t drafted to pick up 3rd and shorts (though its nice when he does.) He was drafted to wear down the defenses once Adrian Peterson comes out of the game, because he’s supposed to be a monster to bring down. Maybe if we played outdoors we’d see this effect better as well.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Dec 20, 2011 10:07 PM CST up reply actions
How does paying outdoors
Make a guy harder to tackle?
Exactly
and like I said originally, I don’t really know why we’re worrying about Toby. Our RB position is the one position I’d say we are up to par at.
AND, if we can get a solid OL set up, I don’t see why we couldn’t run an offense much like the Jets. Not necessarily the zone-blocking scheme, but a ground and pound mentality. I see a lot of similarities between Sanchez and Ponder (which in my opinion isn’t exactly a good thing). This is another reason why our run game needs to be the main focus of the offense. Our second best offensive player (Percy) is more accustomed to lining up in the backfield anyway. Just take a second and think of that running attack behind an OL as good as the Jets. That’s a three headed monster that really would be unparallelled (sp?) in the league. But it’s my firm belief that it all starts up front, for any offense, pass-centric and run-centric alike.
J.P. Bedor, Editor in Chief of Odin's Eye
www.eye-of-odin.blogspot.com
toby
i wish toby all the best i hope he has a long,healthy career we should have invested in a long term solution at left tackle period we can’t afford a back up with that draft pick
Dont mind him
but I’m not totally into his play either. He is getting better but I will say more times then not he can’t fight for too many extra yards. Yes guys I know the last couple games he has done well at it, but games before it was ugly looking on most plays. I don’t mind him coming in to give AP a breather but if no one else has noticed the more touches AP gets the better he gets in games. I saw it when he was in college too, he hates not breaking a tackle and on the next play he’ll make a guy pay. Just look at the play yesterday right before he broke the big one in the first half, gets tackled and twisted up and #33 gets up jawing at him, next play he breaks a tackle and busts it open. I would never take carries away from AP and give them to Toby, but when AP does get tired or dinged up Toby has shown the last few games he can make a play. Though the defense he see’s is not near as tough to run against as the stuff AP see’s every game.
by stuman55 on Dec 19, 2011 9:06 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
yes, yes and yes
i was one of those people mid-season who said we should dangle Toby as trade bait, but i take that back wholeheartedly. he has proven to be good insurance for AP, and in a 3rd down back role he could really thrive.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
Same here
I once advocated for a Toby trade, but I’ve since then ate my own words. I want him to be a part of this team for a while.
by christian220896 on Dec 19, 2011 1:35 PM CST up reply actions
Gerhart has had more third down snaps than AP since he’s joined the team. It would be nice to see how many of these recent receptions actually occured on third down if we are to corrolate them with third down production.
Excellent Question!
I just went back and reviewed the play-by-plays for the past 4 weeks to get you an answer. The short answer is, they were on every down, but even more encouraging is his reception rate. He was targeted 20 times in the past 4 games and came down with 17 catches, for an 85% catch rate. Here’s how they broke down by down:
1st Down: 8 targets, 8 catches (targeted on first down at least once every game)
2nd Down: 5 targets, 5 catches (only targeted on second down in two games)
3rd Down: 7 targets, 4 catches (targeted on 3rd down at least once every game)
4th Down: 0 targets
Most of his targets come on 1st and 3rd down. It’s maybe alarming that his only drops have come on 3rd down…I’m not sure what to make of that. Keep in mind that in 3 of these 4 games, he was the starting RB, so he was going to see targets on every down anyway.
Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.
I don't think Toby will ever really compare to Taylor
They are a lot different, Gerhart is a big back power runner, while Taylor was a much more change of pace type of guy. I would say that their most alike ability is blocking, they are both excellent blockers.
"You can write articles and do whatever you want, you can break down every player. Good, bad or ugly. But we just aren't good enough as a team, as a group. Offensively, defensively and special teams, from the No. 1 on the roster to the last man on the roster. We just aren't good enough. It's as simple as that." - Chad Greenway
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