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Why Loadholt Needs To Go

I am becoming entirely too sick of seeing Vikes' fans say that Phil Loadholt should be given one more year to prove himself.

I know the DN already covered this in their Project 2012 entry, but I really feel this needs to be stated again considering most fans voted he should be our starting RT next season.

More after the jump.

Star-divide

Firstly, I'll get this out of the way -- Loadholt is great on running plays.

But that is about the extent of his usefulness.

Loadholt is dreadful in pass protection and manufactures penalties at an alarming rate. Let's take a look at his career stats, including this season so far:

Year Team G GS Pen Yds False Start Holding Sacks Allwd Yds
2009 Min 15 15 6 30 4 0 6.00 44.00
2010 Min 16 16 11 84 7 2 3.00 16.50
2011 Min 14 14 8 55 4 3 9.00 53.00

I made sure to emphasize the most startling points for this season -- but as you can see, Loadholt is nearly on pace to match his Penalty and False Start totals from last year (even as they stand now, it's atrocious).

Most importantly, he has set a career high in Holding calls, and has allowed 9 sacks so far this season.

I think that bears repeating, with emphasis:

Phil Loadholt has allowed 9 sacks this season.

The main point here, is that Loadholt has not developed in pass protection. In fact, one could argue he has actually regressed on that front. Could that have something to do with the switch in blocking schemes?? Perhaps -- but is that honestly a valid excuse for being consistently beat on the edge??

For all the hell people have been giving Charlie Johnson (and rightfully so), there is far less criticism for Loadholt. Why is that?? Because we drafted him?? Because he's "still young" and there is a chance (slim as it may be) that he could improve?? What is the difference??

I'll go so far as to compare Charlie Johnson's 2011 stats with Loadholt's:

Player Team G GS Pen Yds False Start Holding Sacks Allwd Yds
CJohnson Min 14 14 4 19 3 0 8.00 71.00
Loadholt Min 14 14 8 55 4 3 9.00 53.00

No, people -- your eyes do not deceive you. Save for yardage lost via sacks, Loadholt has had a worse season than Charlie Johnson.

So, I ask again -- what is the difference between both of our OT's?? Is it situational?? Is Loadholt's ability on running plays really enough to offset being worse than Charlie Johnson in pass protection??

I realize the entire OLine needs re-tooling (save for the C position with Sully getting an extension), but IMHO there is no justifiable defense to arguing that Loadholt deserves one more years to prove himself.

There are an awful lot of questions to answer, but the biggest question we really need to ask is -- can Loadholt show enough improvement next year to be offered an extension as our long-term RT??

My answer -- he hasn't really shown a whole lot of anything to justify offering him an extension thus far (3 yrs as a starter), and I have a really hard time believing he'll develop enough in the next year as a pass protector to be a viable option.

The main problem is, there is little value in flat out releasing him, other than to say we are gaining a fresh start and building an identity under this coaching staff. Perhaps Loadholt has some value in a trade scenario -- either for a mid-rd pick, or, packaged with one of our mid-rd picks to move up the board early on or gain an additional 2nd rounder. But if we can't trade him, can somebody step up enough to move Loadholt to a backup role??

I believe DeMarcus Love should be given reps on the field these final two games. Frazier clearly has no qualms with benching players for sub-par play -- it would be nice if he would do the same with Loadholt and give Love a look at RT.

(I'll also address this before I finish, because I know it undoubtedly come up -- at 6'8", Loadholt is too tall to move inside at OG.)

I won't re-post a vote pertaining to Loadholt's future in purple, I just needed to get that off my chest. I'd love to hear your thoughts in the comment section.

This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.

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Stats are misleading...

Sacks being up go along with a rookie QB and anyone not named Favre throwing the ball. As for the holding could it be that Johnson is beat so fast that he doesn’t have time to hold. The RB/ TEs seem to picking up a lot more blitzes/ rushers from the left side of the line than the right from what I’ve been seeing. Loadholt may not be the best option for RT but at the very least he should be kept as a backup.

by VikesFanInTulsa on Dec 19, 2011 12:44 PM CST reply actions  

A few things

I don’t think it’s really a question of “deserves.” I think it’s a question of how to improve the team and when.

His run blocking gives him some value. That makes him a lower priority to replace than Johnson. The question is whether there is a way to preserve that value and minimize the cost is pass protection during the rebuilding process. To me that means getting a LT who can handle his assignment alone and then giving Loadholt consistent help from the TE and RB positions. His biggest challenge is containing the initial speed rush, and a chip from those guys on every pass play can make a lot of difference. That should happen this off season.

But the 2-3 year plan should include replacing him, and I agree I’d like to see what Love can do, at least for part of the game, in the last two weeks.

by amiller92 on Dec 19, 2011 1:02 PM CST reply actions  

This.

Exactly this. You beat me to it. He shouldn’t be our RT any longer but I don’t think we have the means to replace him at the moment with all of the other positions we need to replace that are of more importance. So I think he will be, not should be.

by SirGrizzly on Dec 19, 2011 5:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Yep.

Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.

by CCNorsemen on Dec 19, 2011 8:16 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree with Rj

The number of false start penalties alone in 2010 is unacceptable..frik frak he knows the snapp count

@}-----You've been Touched-----{@

by Velvetouch on Dec 19, 2011 1:02 PM CST reply actions  

also hey Rj

Not sure if the stats you posted are found on the players stat site but would be interesting to total all false start penalties called on offense line guys last 2 years and compare to like when Birk was here seems that many false starts sais lack of the OL as a unit not gelling.

@}-----You've been Touched-----{@

by Velvetouch on Dec 19, 2011 1:05 PM CST reply actions  

this won't be entirely accurate...

…but it’ll be ballpark. i’m only looking up starters going back five years (all started 10+ games each season):

2007 — 8
Birk: 2
Hutch: 1
Herrera: 2
McKinnie: 1
Cook: 2

2008 — 10
Birk: 2
Hutch: 0
Herrera: 0
McKinnie: 2
Cook: 6

2009 — 10
Sully: 1
Hutch: 2
Herrera: 2
McKinnie: 1
Loadholt: 4

2010 — 10
Sully: 0
Hutch: 1
Herrera: 0
McKinnie: 2
Loadholt: 7

2011 — 8
Sully: 0
Hutch: 1
Herrera: 0
Johnson: 3
Loadholt: 4

i dunno if it’s a gelling problem as much as it’s always been a RT problem.

"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."

Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.

by rj-b on Dec 19, 2011 5:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Just curious.

How can a center have a false start penalty? Move and forget to hike the ball? Just curious.

I thought I saw a play on Sunday in which the whole line moved a quarter of a second before the center hiked the ball to the QB. The refs called the penalty on Loadholt I think.

"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin

by kcskol on Dec 19, 2011 6:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe it's a coaching problem. Seems like the numbers are similar at every position even with a little turnover in players.

RT definitely sticks out and I wonder if it’s coincidence that Cook and Loadholt are both good run blockers with false-startitis.

by CanadianViking on Dec 19, 2011 11:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Might be that they are a tad on the slow side.

"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin

by kcskol on Dec 20, 2011 9:33 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah

Also, a RT is almost by definition a guy who wasn’t good enough to be a LT, so it tends to be the position with the lowest talent to pressure ratio.

by amiller92 on Dec 20, 2011 10:26 AM CST up reply actions  

When I first seen Loadholt on draft day...

I knew he’d be a liability in pass protection. Just look at him, it looks like just about anyone can get around him for an easy sack. However, he probably should be kept around for at least one more season, just for depth reasons.

by christian220896 on Dec 19, 2011 1:11 PM CST reply actions  

I agree with you fully on Loadholt.

I don’t want to see him at tackle next year. I do however think both he and Johnson would make kickass guards.

by emeyenburg on Dec 19, 2011 2:00 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

Too tall for Ponder I think.

"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin

by kcskol on Dec 19, 2011 6:52 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't thin most fans understand what guards do

They need to be mobile and quick, not the same way a tackle does though. They need to be able to pull out and slam a trap home and Loadholts feet are so slow that he would be late on it every time.

The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.

by Grime on Dec 20, 2011 9:30 AM CST up reply actions  

In other news.

Jared Gaither whom the Vikes could have had adds weeks ago. Is playing lightsout LT for the chargers.

by emeyenburg on Dec 19, 2011 2:14 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

Yeah =/

I was sad when the Chief’s claimed him.. and then sadder when the Chargers got him after.. and now even more sad that he’s doing well for Rivers.

Wtf Spielman. Thanks for Johnson…

by REVENGE4KLUWE on Dec 19, 2011 8:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Yup, and Aaron Curry OLB is doing pretty good for the Raider's as well.

So the Vikings passed on a starting quality LT off waivers and a former 1st round pick at OLB that went for a 6th or 7th rounder. Missed opportunities to upgrade the roster on the cheap.

by CanadianViking on Dec 19, 2011 11:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Maaaan

I don’t even know. I wanted Curry too, but I assumed our LB corps would be okay with Hendersons and Greenway.

I will keep holding out hope we snag Mays for a 7th rounder and turn him into a kick-ass LB

by REVENGE4KLUWE on Dec 20, 2011 9:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Converting a safety to MLB would be a good idea for the Tampa-2 we run.

Run-stuffers are nice but they don’t really fit the scheme that well. Wasn’t Urlacher a safety in college at one point?

by CanadianViking on Dec 20, 2011 11:18 PM CST up reply actions  

yes

Urlacher was, and that is an idea worth pursuing. need a BIG safety, though.

"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."

Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.

by rj-b on Dec 21, 2011 8:34 AM CST up reply actions  

Argh!

I didn’t know that.

"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin

by kcskol on Dec 20, 2011 9:34 AM CST up reply actions  

To be fair,

he was an injury concern with back issues. Which is probably why they didn’t get him.

by REVENGE4KLUWE on Dec 20, 2011 9:53 PM CST up reply actions  

I made a post about going after him on waivers

and all everyone said was why pick up someone else’s garbage. Just chows that clearly most people on here do not really know what they are talking about, me included lol

by viking_#28 on Dec 20, 2011 2:15 PM CST up reply actions  

In a year where we are set at almost ever position

I might agree with you. In a year where we conceivably need 2 DBs, a safety, a nose tackle, LT, and a true # 1 WR; I’m willing to accept average at RT.

by Jepp The Viking on Dec 19, 2011 3:42 PM CST reply actions  

I was going to write an article about why Loadholt shouldn't go..

but then I realized there we no reasons. :P

"Like I said, I don’t think anybody on this team knows what schism is, let alone could use it in a sentence. I thought it was an STD when I first heard it. And I was like whoa, we preach abstinence around these parts." - Jared Allen

by Landonio on Dec 19, 2011 8:01 PM CST reply actions  

Sacks

I think sacks are probably important stats, but what about QB hurries? How about missed blocks? You can also include successful blocks, pancakes, or even amount of time blocks are maintained on a list of useful stats. I’m not surprised his pass protection stats are bad, but his run blocking seems so good it’d be tough to just cut him, especially considering the other needs of the team (not to mention on the O-Line itself).

Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.

by CCNorsemen on Dec 19, 2011 8:22 PM CST reply actions  

By pancakes

Do you mean how many pancakes Slowhold actually ate that morning?

by christian220896 on Dec 20, 2011 1:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Ha

Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.

by CCNorsemen on Dec 20, 2011 2:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh, wow

He actually did better in pass protection last year.. I wouldn’t have guessed.

But yes, he’s having a worse season in sacks allowed because he’s playing with McNabb and a rookie QB, instead of Favre who knew how to get the ball out fast to avoid the sack.

by REVENGE4KLUWE on Dec 19, 2011 8:23 PM CST reply actions  

OT's that jump

in the NFL have one last option and this may be th ticket. You move Loadholt to guard where he can hear and see the snap. He would be a guy that could move the interior forward,

AKA : Revenge4Webb

by CitrusFLViking on Dec 20, 2011 1:54 AM CST reply actions  

and you don't feel 6'8" is too tall for an OG...??

if we had a QB who was 6’5", maybe. and even then, that’s a big maybe.

i also question whether Loadholt is athletic/mobile enough for OG.

i could see retaining Charlie Johnson and moving him inside, but Loadholt… it just seems like a square-peg-round-hole scenario.

"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."

Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.

by rj-b on Dec 20, 2011 9:18 AM CST up reply actions  

Obviously Loadholt wouldn't be used for pulls

But he would be an absolute mauler in double-teams with Sullivan, and it might help to counter Sully’s lack of ideal size for a center.

I’m not too worried about the height difference. I’m sure it will take some adjusting at first, but its just one of those things that can be easily dealt with.

by REVENGE4KLUWE on Dec 20, 2011 9:57 PM CST up reply actions  

His feet are slow

You need quick feet as a guard as well or no pulling for traps etc… The guy is just slow and honestly you just are a liability on the line with slow feet.

The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.

by Grime on Dec 20, 2011 9:32 AM CST up reply actions  

Wow I didn't know he was that terrible on pass pro

I mean i can understand Charlie giving up sacks ponder can’t see them coming, but loadholt giving them up means he’s being pushed back into Ponder. I have seen him blown by I’ve seen him bull rushed, honestly how on earth do you bull rush Loadholt?

The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.

by Grime on Dec 20, 2011 9:34 AM CST reply actions  

Its all about leverage

Loadholt probably struggles to stay low with being how huge he is.

by REVENGE4KLUWE on Dec 20, 2011 9:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Loadholt is not going to go this off season

He may not start next year if he does not improve but he is a bargain at his salary even as a backup. I expect improvement next year since it will be his contract year.

Since he is a very good run blocker I do not see them moving him. They need to chip the quick DEs he faces often during the games instead of leaving him out there all alone.

With the number of free agents and the fact that Herrera and Hutchinson should be replaced, I cannot see Loadholt being replaced too. I can see a competition with Love though. But I think they keep Loadholt at his 565K next year for sure.

by MarkSP18 on Dec 20, 2011 9:47 AM CST reply actions  

this would be nice:
I can see a competition with Love though.

and i certainly hope it’s a legit competition given we’ll have an entire offseason of OTA’s and a proper TC.

with the lockout this season, we justifiably went with the vets at every position while the youngsters got up to speed.

however, i still contend if Loadholt has trade value, it should be considered. if he doesn’t improve next season, i highly doubt he’ll stay in MN if it’s anticipated he’ll be relegated to a backup role in the future. even if he does improve dramatically next season in a contract year, it’s tough to assume he won’t go back to his sluggish ways after he signs an extension with the team — certainly that wouldn’t be the first time a player has a great contract year and regresses back to what the trend showed prior to it.

(and even if Love does beat him for the starting position, Loadholt will likely walk at the end of the season for the opportunity to be a starter elsewhere — in which case, we’d have to weigh whether keeping him as a backup for one yr is better than what he might net in a trade. the only positive scenario we have with Loadholt is that he makes extreme improvements in pass protection next season, and remains consistent as a starter for each year down the road, assuming he signs an extension with the team. given his track record so far, that’s a giant leap of faith.)

"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."

Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.

by rj-b on Dec 20, 2011 10:16 AM CST up reply actions  

He's not but he is expensive as hell.

The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.

by Grime on Dec 20, 2011 10:56 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah

I don’t think we’ll be cutting anyone who is adequate at his position (a standard that even an ailing and aging Hutch can easily surpass) because of the price tag.

by amiller92 on Dec 20, 2011 11:04 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree I think Frazier is trying to do this smart

Not toss anyone tell he has a replacement in hand already. Man I hope Love and Fusco are good and we’re just prepping them for next year.

The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.

by Grime on Dec 20, 2011 12:15 PM CST up reply actions  

yes yes yes

on Fusco and Love — i hope they work out, they’d be absolute steals and the 2011 draft would prove to be a lot better than the C grade most analysts gave it.

"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."

Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.

by rj-b on Dec 21, 2011 8:38 AM CST up reply actions  

if they do not restructure Hutch and pay him the 7 mil then they are dumber than I thought

The man is regressing and was beat a few times in the Saints game easily.

The Vikings can get adequate for a lot less than 7 mil per year.

It is a business first and foremost and fan sentiments should never enter into the discussion when considering a player’s playing ability vs salary.

by MarkSP18 on Dec 20, 2011 1:58 PM CST up reply actions  

I counted once

For Hutch getting beat easily in the Saints game. But I was not specifically scoring him.

But I’m not sure where your adequate for less comes from.

by amiller92 on Dec 20, 2011 3:06 PM CST up reply actions  

I would not pay him 7 mil nor would I ask him to take a cut in his last year

He is 35 years old. What does it take for people to see when a player is declining. He was a great player but now is just not worth it especially in a rebuilding mode.

Adequate for me would be Charlie Johnson at LG or maybe even Fusco or Love with a first round left tackle.

The best case scenario for me would be to sign Carl Nicks in free agency which will cost 8 to 9 mil per year. They will need Hutch’s money to pay Nicks.

Here is someone who did score the game.
http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Breaking_down_the_tape_of_the_Vikings_loss_to_the_Saints121911

by MarkSP18 on Dec 20, 2011 7:09 PM CST up reply actions  

He's declining

But that doesn’t mean you can afford to make more holes.

And contrary to you pet theories, we can’t sign very free agent that may be available. Nor, realistically, will we.

Johnson is likely headed for RG, or should be. Love and Fsco may be adequate, but who knows? We’ve barely seen them. They wouldn’t be the first late round linemen who weren’t ready to start in their second year. And regardless, next year both are likely a big step down even from a depleted Hutch.

As for Pellisario grade, two pressure allowed isn’t terrible.

by amiller92 on Dec 20, 2011 9:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Cutting Hutchinson doesn't leave a huge hole

Depending on who we move to replace him, be it Nicks, Charlie Johnson, or some other FA/Draftee, we will still get roughly the same value, at a lower price (excluding Nicks of course.)

That extra money could be used to lure in a better DB for our terrible secondary. Or a better WR to help out Harvin. In a way, it would be addition by subtraction.

by REVENGE4KLUWE on Dec 20, 2011 10:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Rules of math

Say addition by subtraction doesnt work.

I can already hear the howling from next year about how terrible the LG play is.

But who knows, maybe Fusco will be ready. If so, yeah, save some money.

I see little chance of spending big money on a free agent at LG though.

by amiller92 on Dec 20, 2011 10:29 PM CST up reply actions  

i agree

build the line through the draft.

FA $$ should be used elsewhere.

"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."

Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.

by rj-b on Dec 21, 2011 8:39 AM CST up reply actions  

Honestly it worries me that they don't have competition with Love right now!

I mean does this mean our back ups are as terrible at O line as they are in our secondary? we have no one ready to step up from the back up squad but Everson? This is terribad news to me. these people are playing like crap, the only reason I don’t see someone else out there is because they are worse and the coaches don’t see them getting better.

The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.

by Grime on Dec 20, 2011 10:56 AM CST up reply actions  

that could just be the coaches, though

look how long Mistral sat behind Tyrell, Sanford and Abdullah… and he’s playing better than any of them have.

maybe the OLine is a similar situation…??

"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."

Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.

by rj-b on Dec 21, 2011 8:48 AM CST up reply actions  

Cut him.

We’ll take him on the Packers, just for the next couple games now that we lost 2 tackles.

The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010

by TrevorR on Dec 20, 2011 12:28 PM CST reply actions  

I'm crying for you.

We’ll trade you him for anyone on your secondary.

The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.

by Grime on Dec 20, 2011 3:48 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Loadholt at right tackle?

I say take a look at Love at RT and give him a chance these last two games. If he’s not the answer use him as a back up at guard. I do think that loadholt has to go. If Love can do the job then keep Patrick whats his name as the back up OT . Rd1 Select Kalil for LT and then later in the draft find a RT.

by Viking King on Dec 21, 2011 8:04 AM CST reply actions  

Lg position solving in F/A

I would liketo see the Minnesota Vikings sign Carl Nicks OG from the New Orleans. Combined with Kalil and Sullivan at C and put Charlie Johnson or Berger at RG. Thats four of five changes needed on the offensive line. Then give Demarcus Love a chance at RT and draftn another player in the draft for more depth and give Loadholt his walking papers this coming season. Doing this will not cost alot of money and it will strengthen the offensive line.

by Viking King on Dec 21, 2011 8:13 AM CST reply actions  

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