What the claiming of Sage Rosenfels means for the Vikings
by DHVikes12 on Dec 2, 2011 9:00 PM CST
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PrintThe Vikings parted ways with Sage Rosenfels in the midst of "Favre-a-palooza," but many on the Vikings staff were against trading Rosenfels to the New York Giants. Brad Childress didn’t seem to get along with Sage, but the Vikings Vice President of Player Operations Rick Spielman loved how posied of a quarterback he was since the day he picked him up from the Houston Texans. On Friday, the Vikings claimed Rosenfels off waivers several hours after the Miami Dolphins placed him there. This move was made to fill the open roster spot made when the Vikings waived Donovan McNabb. Rosenfels will be paid roughly 1.5 million to finish the last 5 games with the Vikings. It will be very interesting to see if the Vikings keep Rosenfels on the roster next season. It is quite ironic that the Vikings let Leslie Frazier make the decision of signing Donovan McNabb. This may be Rick Spielman’s way of showing he knows how to make the personnel decisions and that the team should let him make more important roster moves. With the Vikings dismal record of 2-9 it seems like the organization is trying to become younger at several positions like at safety and wide receiver. Earlier this week, the Vikings re-signed Stephen Burton who was on the practice squad but was released to make room for tight end Mickey Shuler. The organization also added safety Jarrad Page who previously played for the Eagles and was released after starting 5 games with the New England Patriots. The Minnesota Vikings will need to make many moves to improve several positions that are very weak. Christian Ponder needs a dominant deep threat wide receiver, which the Vikings lacked this season after Sidney Rice left for the Seattle Seahawks. The Vikings also need to add a left tackle to the offensive line to upgrade Charlie Johnson who has been very disappointing this season. It wouldn’t surprise me to see the Vikings pick up a left tackle in the draft and then they could move Charlie Johnson to left guard to remove the large salary of an old Steve Hutchinson. At safety I would move Antoine Winfield and Cedric Griffin to the safety position and then start a much improved Asher Allen to play cornerback along with drafting or signing a cornerback. Also Chris Cook could potentially play with Asher Allen at cornerback depending on the severity of his charges for starting a fight with his girlfriend. Many of you are probably wondering why I am saying to move Cedric Griffin to safety. There are several reasons: the Vikings need to upgrade the safety position and Griffin could fill the need. Also, it seems like he loses a step in the second half after suffering two ACL tears in the past two seasons. Overall, it will be very interesting to see what moves the Vikings make at the end of the season and how they handle the NFL Draft in April.
This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.
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I don’t think there’s any way that both Griffen and Antoine move to safety. Asher Allen is awful, and I’m willing to be that Chris Cook won’t be on the team next year. Our corner back depth is shallow enough, no need to make it worse by moving our two best players to a different position.
First Vikings memory: age 5, crying in front of the tv with my dad after the '98 NFC championship game.
in madden
Moving winfield to safety makes him like a 95 overall… Just saying
by Lunchpail on Dec 2, 2011 10:44 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I would like to see him as the Nickle-CB
Winfield would fill that role pretty well…IMO.
He can tackle anybody…perfect for covering TE’s and stopping Big/Heavy HB’s dead in their tracks.
You lost me
When you said Asher Allen was much improved.
Ponder to Harvin for 6!
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Dec 3, 2011 12:25 AM CST via mobile reply actions
+1
dn’t like him even a little
i do bleed purple, just can not get enough even with a sb win go vikes
by new york viking on Dec 3, 2011 6:33 AM CST up reply actions
Well he is
I think he’s at the level of half decent #2 great nickle back. But there is no way he should be a #1 I agree.
"Winning isn't everything but losing is nothing" - Ace Bricka coach of the Galaxy Aces
Charlie Johnson
Move him to LG so he can be incompetent at this position too?
I’d move him off the roster completely
Hutch would look awful at LG too.
Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Oops. I mean LT.
He’s been okay at LG this year.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
This is kind of confusing
You say “move Antoine Winfield and Cedric Griffin to the safety position” and then you say “Chris Cook could potentially play with Asher Allen at safety”. I figure it must be a typo because we do not need four safeties.
The problem with this is that Winfield is 34 years old and never really was that fast. Griffin looks like he has lost a step after the surgeries. Putting two players back at safety that need to patrol the deep half of the secondary is a recipe for disaster.
While I am a fan of Asher I do not see him as an outside corner. I think he can play in the slot as a nickel or dime. That is where I would give him his last chance.
Rosenfels is a stop gap move and proves nothing to me about Spielman besides they were desperate. They tried to get John Parker Wilson FIRST. So Rosenfels is the sloppy seconds.
Rosenfels is stealing money now. Miami did not even want to keep him and neither did the Giants. If he only has strep throat then why not keep him if he is a valuable backup? Hmmm … makes me wonder.
Personally, I would go with Ponder, Webb, and another youngster acquired in this year’s draft.
i say give ced one more season to see where hes at
And see if winfield would be willing to restructure and try him @ safety
by Lunchpail on Dec 3, 2011 8:49 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Winfields contract states that if he moves to nickel corner (non starter)
His contract restructures automatically and Winfield himself has said he will not play safety, it’s a position he has never played and he has no interest in playing it. We need him to be our nickel CB until he can be replaced or he retires.
All it means
Is what I’ve been saying for months… We don’t view Joe Webb as a legit option at QB.
by mak07 on Dec 3, 2011 10:11 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Then why would they promote Webb to the #2 spot over McNabb?
I don’t expect Webb to challenge Ponder anytime soon but the coaches are keeping Webb at QB for a reason.
by CanadianViking on Dec 3, 2011 4:48 PM CST up reply actions
Sage Rosenfels.
We brought him in as an emergency QB in case Ponder gets hurt. If we weren’t planning on working Webb at WR, we wouldn’t have spend that 500,000+ that he’s due still this year for a 3rd string guy. I’m not saying Webb will start at WR, I’m saying he will get reps there in practice and see action at WR during the game. We didn’t bring in Sage to be our 3rd string back-up. We wouldn’t waste that much money for a guy that is all but guaranteed to not see the field. I still don’t think he’ll see the field, but I do think he’ll be #2 sooner or later.
he was also playing receiver in the Bronco game.
Was a nice catch too. Phantom PI call but he looked decent…
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
Who knows?
Just about nothing this coaching staff does seems to make sense.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Most of their decisions make sense...
Drafting Christian. Getting Donovan to start til Christian was ready. Play Christian. Cut Donovan. Sign Rosenfels. I think they’ve done alright with the QB position so far…
O-Line, now that’s another story.
And Defense. That’s been a mess too. Mostly due to injuries though.
And you're just as wrong now as you were then
Webb is just as legit as Ponder is at a QB, but the difference is that one of them got the full support of the Front Office and the other didn’t.
Webb’s best option is Free Agency.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Hahaha
Next time proof read your post. It says Webb is just as legit as Ponder at QB.
Webb has never thrown a TD. Has a TD/INT ratio of 0/3
Ponder has thrown many TD’s, has a TD/INT ratio of 9/8
Webb has never put up 300 yards in a game. Ponder just put up 380+.
And lastly:
NOBODY DRAFTED WEBB AS A QB. He fell to the 6th round and was taken as a WR/ATH. He was one of the best athletes in the whole draft, but nobody thought he was a legit QB option. He wouldn’t have made it to the end of the 6th round if they did.
Ponder was drafted #12 overall, and many believe he will now be a better pro than Gabbert, and some believe he’s ahead of Locker as well. Newton and Dalton have looked good, but looking ahead, it’s a toss up between those 3. Dalton seems like a game manager and Newton seems like a system QB (It’s working there though…) Going forward, he might be the best QB in this year’s draft class. He might not be too. That’s totally possible. But we’ve never once had that conversation about Joe Webb.
Christian Ponder is better than Joe Webb. It’s that simple.
+1
Webb’s value is his versatility. Hence the “Blazer” package. He was lined up as a WR a few times this afternoon, and he lined up at QB a few times as well, running once and passing once. But make no mistake, Ponder is the better QB. He’s making his mistakes as he learns on the job this season, but he’s shown enough potential in 6+ games to make me a believer.
SKOL Vikings!
Move Griffen to safety just for the fun of it.
Forget moving a CB to safety. Let’s move our back up DE to safety. We haven’t had a fearsome presence at safety since Joey Browner. (Maybe I’m wrong about that, but I can’t remember one since then). If Griffen can play DE, LB and be a gunner on the punt team, I think he’s got the physcial tools to play safety? And his awareness and angles can’t be worse than Tyrell Johnson’s. I just can’t imagine what a 200 pound receiver would be thinking when running a route across the middle with Griffen at safety. He’d also bring a load on run defense.
I’m not entirely serious about this proposal, but at 2-9 I’d like to have some fun this season and just try it out. Besides, I’d rather see Griffen at safety than Allen at CB.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
In the age of the Internet, there are no original thoughts
I just came across a blog that posted a paragraph on this very thought 4 days ago.
As for Everson Griffen, I’ve seen him used as a linebacker, a defensive end, a tackle and a gunner. That’s right a gunner, just like Joey Browner back in the day. Maybe it’s time to use him in his true calling … as a strong safety. We lost another two in the secondary this past weekend as their backs got to our second level consistently. Maybe its time to go back old school where this Griffen kid might get an opportunity or two label a couple guys. His scanner looks like its working good. The question is, can he cover a tight end? Does it matter as from what I’ve seen this year, no one was able to cover the tight end. What I’d like to see Griffen do it label that tight end, running back, or better yet, a quarterback or two. Wouldn’t that be special. This guy strikes me a someone carrying a bit of field rage. I like that. “Tattoo you!” Isn’t this kid from SC, the same school that brought us Joey Browner, Jeff Fisher, Ronnie Lott, and a guy name Dennis Smith. What a backfield. Maybe this safety thing is in his SC blood line. Maybe its time to turn over that rock. You haven’t found that deep combination yet have you? Again, the solution just might be standing right in front of you. What I’d always believed is that it is always better to give than it is to receive. Everson Griffen strikes me as a giver. “Tattoo you!” Chris Doleman was drafted as a linebacker and turned into a soon to be hall of fame defensive end. Maybe its time we turn a defensive end into a hall of fame strong safety. “Tattoo you!”
http://myvikingblood.org/Two_Steps_Away.htm
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
That would be crazy.
I think he would be terrible in coverage, but he would be able to make some crazy hits. And think about the safety blitz…
He was playing outside LB in preseason.
It just makes me think. He can’t be any worse than Johnson who was seen fit to play safety. Besides the Vikings seem to expect their safeties to play 25 yards off the line of scrimmage and play in reverse until the ball is the air (i.e. back pedal until something happens). Surely Griffen can do that just fine. I know that there’s more to the position than just the physical skills, but I think it would be cool to see. If that doesn’t work out, put him at right tackle. :-)
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
How's his open field tackling?
Would hat eto have him juked out of his socks.. I will say this though a lot of receivers would be dropping balls waiting for his hit… TATOO’D!
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
Robert Griffith, back in the mid nineties was pretty fun to watch. I remember a hit on Antonio Freeman that was just insane.
I piss people off on a fairly regular basis. I cherish my right to speak my mind, whether I sound like an uneducated savage or not. I've never been accused of keeping what I think a secret, nor will I ever. Don't like it? I don't care.
by IABerserker1 on Dec 3, 2011 5:42 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
You're right.
I forgot about him.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
That was Cory Fuller who nailed Freeman
But Griffith would lay the wood as well especially for being a “small” safety, he was fearless and a good tackler, boy could we use a player like Griffith now.
One of my favorite defensive backs of all time
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
I held off my comment, but I'll throw it in
I have to admit that I stopped reading after the first couple sentences, mainly after the celebration of Sage coming back to the Vikings. I have to apologize, but I don’t see that as a great accomplishment for Spielman in all of this. Sage is a guy that Spielman has liked for a while and has already cost the Vikings a fourth round pick to get only to trade away for pennies on the dollar. Getting him back now just suggests that he’s a guy that Spielman trusts more than some of the other guys on the street.
It's a confirmation that Spielman doesn't know what he's doing
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Wow you're a Debbie downer today..
Think about it we get a chance to see a rosencopter! Plus now your man Webb can finally start his career as a WR!!! :)
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
This post is all over the place
Signing Rosenfels means nothing for next year. Earlier in the Week Frazier said he wanted to get a closer look at Webb at receiver. Then McNabb asked to be released. Webb at WR + DMac on the street= only one QB on the roster. It’s really as simple as that. Musgrave suggested Atlanta’s John Parker Wilson, obviously because Musgrave felt that he would have the shortest learning curve in picking up the playbook. That deal fell through so they turned to another veteran with some fimiliarity with the organization as plan B. All this says to me is that the FO really does want/need Webb to step up at WR, thus they had to secure a backup QB for the remainder of the season.
As far as the rest, I can see Griff at FS, but not Winfield. And as Mark said, Asher is not starting material at corner.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
The thing that doesn't make sense....
…is that McNabb requested to be released after being relegated to the scout team. And Rosenfels didn’t show up until after McNabb left. That would imply Webb was upgraded to back up QB prior to McNabb’s departure. I hadn’t heard the Frazier comment about giving Webb a look at QB, but if true, it would seem to be just one more indication of Frazier’s wishy washy ways. What a mess.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
it's not that complicated
If Webb is taking reps at WR and Ponder is #1 QB, who’s left to run the scout team? McNabb. So I wouldn’t look at it as Webb upgraded to #2 QB so much as Webb being moved to WR. I only wish I had the link to the report to share it, but I know I read it earlier in the week. It makes complete sense with the injury to Jenkins and Harvin’s illness.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
More on Webb to WR
Here’s Frazier said at a recent press conference about Webb as a WR:
“Q: Is it too risky to use Joe often as a receiver until you have another guy at the quarterback position?
A: Yeah. It makes you very cautious about doing that. If something were to happen to Christian all of a sudden and Joe gets injured, we’d have a major problem. So, yeah, it makes you a little more cautious with even things we put in the game plan and how we’d like to use him.
Q: Who would be your emergency third guy?
A: We were teasing Greg Camarillo today about taking some snaps because in the past he’s been our emergency guy. And he took some snaps today, just in case."
Can you imagine Greg Camarillo as our emergency QB!?!?!? Wow.
SKOL Vikings!
LOL
Can I imagine Greg Camarillo as our emergency QB? No. At the same time, I don’t think it would hurt our winning percentage.
How depressing.
It’s also depressing to think that Sage is taking our back up QB reps instead of Webb.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Actually Webb is still taking 2nd string reps.
Signing Sage was just insurance in case Webb gets hurt playing WR or wildcat.
by CanadianViking on Dec 5, 2011 4:03 PM CST up reply actions
Oh thank goodness.
Glad to hear that news. Where did you hear it?
I’ve heard contradictory stuff from another DN poster earlier today. Said Webb had been switched to WR which meant that Donovan had to manage the scout team as the #2 QB. I’m strongly inclined to believe your news, but that could be because that’s the version I’d like to believe. :-)
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
I think I've heard Webb
Is at #2 right now as well… I don’t have any link, but I think he’s still #2. Sage has only had Musgrave’s playbook for a week, so I think it’ll be at least another week before they have him run with the 2nd team. I also think we will see more Webb at WR the final 2 games of the year.
But as of now, I do believe Webb is #2 QB on the roster.
No explicit source. Just my interpretation of some Frazier quotes in the McNabb release story and the claiming of Sage story.
Frazier had the usual “We like Joe at QB” comments and mentioned that having Sage run the scout team like McNabb had just started doing allowed them to keep experimenting with Joe while still giving him QB reps as well.
by CanadianViking on Dec 5, 2011 10:13 PM CST up reply actions
Also, it doesn't really make any sense to promote Webb to #2 over McNabb and then demote him to #3 behind Sage.
Sage probably can’t be much worse than McNabb but I can’t see him being anything more than a clipboard holding insurance policy : )
by CanadianViking on Dec 5, 2011 10:15 PM CST up reply actions
Sage - What a long strange trip it's been
How cautious could he be teasing Camarillo about “taking some snaps”, TOO cautious, I’m not saying I want a river-boat-gambler, I just don’t want them to start POINTING while they laugh. sorry for the run-on sentence
i gotta agree w/ mak07 on this one...
Webb as a WR (i.e. on the field) is better than Webb as a backup QB (i.e. not on the field).
don’t worry, Webb fans… the Blazer package doesn’t need to go away (are there any fans of that, anyway…??)
the coaching staff is finally putting Webb in as a WR, too — granted that might be due to injury, but i also see this as testing the waters. perhaps WR doesn’t need to be as needy a position as we all anticipated in the upcoming draft… Percy, Jenkins, Aroma (after his great showing against the Broncos), and Webb…?? ya never know, guys. the only way we’ll know is if we try.
Rosenfels can back up Ponder just fine. IMHO, we ought to use a late rd pick on a QB like Keenum for our 3rd string, shift Webb permanently to WR and put this eternal debate to rest.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
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