A Thought On Christian Ponder Playing Sunday
by KJSegall on Dec 27, 2011 4:25 PM CST
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This seems familiar...
OK, this is going to start off with what might seem, on the surface, hypocrisy. Allow me to quickly state that the following piece should not be confused with Leslie Frazier's decision to play Adrian Peterson last Saturday, a sentiment echoed here earlier. You rest players when you are in the playoffs and the last game or two no longer matter; you don't rest players because you are out of the playoffs and the last game or two no longer matter. As I mentioned in my piece regarding the team's reaction to how Chris Cook has been handled, teams play for pride. You can sell a team that a game is meaningless and OK to lose when there's a future in the playoffs, because your pride isn't hurt. However, when a team is staring at the worst record in franchise history, and there is soon to be no tomorrow for several vets, that's not a message that will work. So, in conclusion, Frazier was absolutely right to play AP, results- horrific as they were- be damned.
That said- I'm not sure I agree with the apparent intent on playing Christian Ponder in the season closer against da Bears. Join me for more- Leap of Faith!
First off, hat tip to one Mr. Toby Gerhart for playing like a beast and proving me right when I say that he could start for many other NFL teams. That said, and with all due respect for a guy who might be our lead ball-carrier for a while longer, nobody's going to confuse him with Adrian Peterson anytime soon. When Peterson's 90% (if not 100%), you start him, because in the department he's the one who gives you the best chance to win a game.
Now, I'm not necessarily saying Joe Webb gives us a better chance to win Sunday than Christian Ponder per se, although recent performances might just give argument that he may. Regardless, however, of whether you're on Team Webb or Team Ponder, the truth is, there's no ‘world of difference' between the two like there is between Gerhart and Peterson. At this point, I'd say our odds of winning are roughly the same with either behind center. (Let the firestorm BEGIN!)
But there's more to it than that. Webb has, for the most part, remained relatively unscathed in his action for the Vikings over the last two seasons. He has, to the best of my knowledge, no injuries as of right now. Ponder? Not so much in either sense. The dude has been bashed straight to Hades recently on our behalf; furthermore, he suffered a concussion on Sunday shortly after AP's injury. And as we've been learning in greater and more disturbing detail, concussions are no joke. If anything, a concussion should give more pause than a knee injury. Repeated knee injuries certainly will cause a decline in personal life and health going forward, they may even leave you partially crippled. But it's concussions that leave you wandering the streets despite millions of dollars in the bank, not knowing who you are or where you're at. And even if they don't, they absolutely affect careers during their playing time- Kurt Warner has claimed that it was concussions that explained for his curious ‘slump period' between being a Rams superstar and a Cardinals superstar, a period when he was playing journeyman backup. And I'm inclined to believe him.
At this point, in this most meaningless of meaningless games (OK, granted, we have a chance to not get swept by the division, and can at least not tie the worst record in franchise history- but still, we can't even play ‘spoiler'), there's no logic playing a rookie QBOTF who has looked more and more shell-shocked every time he's on the field and just got his noggin rocked. The Bears are not a very good team right now- hell, they're downright awful since Jay Cutler's injury, and even more so with Matt Forte's. What do they have? Julius Peppers and Brian Urlacher, and a decent pass-rush that has more than a chance of laying out Ponder a few times. Especially with our Pop Warner-level Offensive Line.
Without trying to really enter into the Webb vs. Ponder fray here, I will say that one particular reason I believe Webb has seemingly performed better than Ponder right now is his athletic ability to survive behind a porous O-line. Ponder is by and far the more ‘pure passer' type of QB- not a knock on Webb's arm or his passing skills (which have certainly taken a big step forward lately), but rather to point out that Webb is more the ‘dual-threat' QB: either it's a big pass or a big run. When the O-line collapses (inevitable), Webb always retains the option to take off, damn near AP style. Ponder has shown legs this season to be sure, but he won't be confused for Spiderman anytime soon- he's the QB who's first and second option is a passing play. And with our O-line, he's not often given a chance to get past the second option (should he even get so lucky as to get that far).
Sending a shell-shocked rookie who just last game was taken to the locker room concussed, especially again in a game that's 85% meaningless, is just lunacy IMO. I don't care how you do it- lie through your teeth and tell him he didn't pass his concussion test and isn't clear to play, so as to avoid hurting his ego or competitive spirit. Or tell him the truth and essentially challenge him for the future, letting him know his arch-nemesis is getting one final shot before the off-season to take that starting spot from him. (Arch-nemesis might be a tad too strong, as these guys seemingly have no problem co-existing on the team, but you get my point.) Again, I don't care. Just don't send Ponder out on that field and risk another concussion at this point. Send out Webb- it's not like we'd be waving a white flag by doing so, and again, Webb is far less likely to take any career-detrimental injuries in the process.
What say you, fellow Viking fandom? Is the team right to send Ponder back out into the trenches so soon, and with so little on the line? Or should Webb be getting the final game of the season?
Of course, regardless, we'll be on the 1 yard line when a blown facemask penalty costs us the game. Calling that now.
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I agree
It seems that Ponder plays a little more shaky after each little setback he’s had,and a concussion is a big one. I say let him rest, don’t risk his long term health. Plus, we get to see more Joe Webb, who may have a legit shot as a starter, if not here then elsewhere (sad as that would be, cause I love me some Spiderman).
Skol Vikings.
I agree agree
You get an allowance of 3 concussions before the severe consequences become probable. Ponder has one in his rookie season. I don’t know if he’s had others in HS or college, but he’s now down at least one and I don’t think you can get 1-ups for this type of injury.
No allowance
There is no such thing as a concussion allowance. Some people can have only one and have life-long effects. While it is true that multiple concussion are additive, no one should be considered “safe” because they have only had one. Keep Ponder out unless he passes his test.
Don't you know who the *^$% I am?
Yeah, I probably could have worded it better – thanks for the clarification!
What I think everyone understands (and OP is suggesting) is that brain injuries are much more devastating than other injuries (such as damaging an appendage) and should never be treated lightly. I don’t think there would be a cry of outrage from the fanbase if Ponder sits.
One can do it.
A single major concussion can yield lifelong issues, such as memory loss. I received a substantial concussion in a car accident thirty years ago and…. Where was I going with this?
But the worst thing is the cumulative affect of concussions.
I say just sit Ponder next week and work out his off season tutoring schedule for next season.
by Lars in SLP on Dec 27, 2011 7:22 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Let Ponder Heal
Even if he passes the tests, keep him on the bench. For all the attention that concussions have rightly received recently, they’re still highly enigmatic. Odds are good that in the next couple years, we’ll discover that the current tests aren’t sufficient.
There are plenty of things a person can do in life with a bum knee. Not so much you can do with scrambled brains.
by a951racer on Dec 27, 2011 4:53 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Agreed - sometimes you have to save theses guys from themselves
Very good article in yesterdays Huffington Post in regards to this -
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/26/nfl-concussions-hide-injuries_n_1169861.html
Build up your weaknesses until they become your strong points." --Knute Rockne
Frazier is an idiot.
I’ve developed this opinion of Frazier over 15 regular season games and 4 pre-season ones. If given the choice between taking a suitcase of money or a pile of turds, I think Frazier would choose the money, then question himself, take a time out, call out the turd inspection team, and then, maybe possible, go back to choosing the money (or not).
If a headcoach could screw up this decision about whether or not to play Ponder, Frazier will.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
The money would turn out to be Monopoly money.
Meanwhile McCarthy would choose the turds and find them laced with diamonds.
by Caretaker QB on Dec 27, 2011 6:05 PM CST up reply actions
Call it the lesson learned regarding Adrian Peterson
He can start it and get out of there after the first quarter. Play a good game but a loss is more useful than a win. Might as well play Sage for the final quarter. or the 2nd quarter and Webb cleans up. Whatever. Have fun and dont get hurt!!
by VikesFanSince1967 on Dec 27, 2011 5:21 PM CST reply actions
If Ponder is healthy
If Ponder passes his concussion test, and is otherwise deemed to be in good health by the training staff, I see no reason he shouldn’t play. We don’t know the severity of the concussion, and any speculation on our part is ignorant at best. Ponder can still learn and develop, even in a meaningless week 17 game.
That said, if he’s even in the least bit questionable health, then I think it makes sense to give Joe Webb a start. Backup QBs cherish any starts they can get, and I’m sure it will help Webb improve his game just as much as it would Ponder.
Frazier and Co. made the decision to dump McNabb and throw Ponder to the wolves behind a terrible and suspect O-Line. He’s been beaten up like a ragdoll this season (are we surprised??). They made that decision (IMO) to give Ponder a leg up on the learning curve heading into next season, and again, if he’s healthy, there’s no reason to deprive him of that opportunity in order to “play it safe”. If he busts up his knee ala Culpepper, then hey, we have Webb and a shot at drafting Luck. :P
Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.
I don't think there is anything left for Ponder to learn this season
because, the only thing he has learned is…..snap the ball and RUN FOREST, RUN away from the defense.
We won't have any shot at drafting Luck anymore (most likely), cuz 3rd is the best we can pick.
I don’t really mind if they play Ponder. He might do better, but chances are he is going to have the same typres of struggles that he has been having. That might be a good thing. If we lose miserably, then we will probably get a better draft pick and the chances that we get a REAL GM and possible even GET RID OF FRAZIER & CO. might improve.
Either way, Webb has made a serious case for himself as a qb only that deserves to be treated like one and given the opportunity to be developed as one. And Ponder has shown that although he has potential, that it might be limited or that he really needs to learn some new skills lest he end up like Colt McCoy.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Dec 27, 2011 8:35 PM CST up reply actions
If Ponder passes his concussion test, and is otherwise deemed to be in good health by the training staff, I see no reason he shouldn’t play. We don’t know the severity of the concussion, and any speculation on our part is ignorant at best. Ponder can still learn and develop, even in a meaningless week 17 game.
Ah! But that is where Frazier has an out. Ponder received a concussion, and (as far as anyone in the public knows) he’s “still injured.” Sit him and play Webb. Nobody will question the move. Brilliant!
I think strategy is involved here...
…and I really don’t think Ponder will play.
However, making the Bears gameplan for two different QB’s gives us (and Webb) a leg-up. This is a common tactic in the NFL, and I really don’t see the Vikes sending Ponder out there with even a “minor” concussion. There is no reason for it, and we darn sure don’t need anymore debilitating injuries this season.
My only worry now is that Webb has had minor injuries at least twice (one on a kick-off return, and one he returned from….if my memory serves me correctly….during a game) in his short career; and hopefully that hapless Bears defense doesn’t go all gorilla on our QB’s.
Maybe we should send Rosencopter out there…even though that will make for the most boring game in the history of the Vikes…
I will not be PONDERing anything, ever again....I'm so tired of this pun. Maybe we could use antonyms to be different, like: "FORGET about last season, as we COGITATE about winning in 2011!"...Whatever, SKOL VIKES!!!
Subterfuge IS a distinct possibility J.RO
As a fan of both QB’s I hate to pick a side but with Webb you never know if he’s going to pass or to just take off. Personally I feel that Webb gives us the best chance to beat the Bears (which we are going to do) and Ponder needs to just let the noggin heal and prepare for next year. Both of these kids seem like high character ball players and both have a bright future.
Build up your weaknesses until they become your strong points." --Knute Rockne
It's time to forget that we used a 1st rounder (Why god why??) on Ponder
This was such a stupid pick. Never bee a fan of the Ponder pick. I hope I’m wrong, but I just don’t see him being a top 15 qb in this league. We could have probably picked him up in the 2nd or 3rd round. Luckily we used that 1st rounder after their pay scaled dropped.
We have to give Webb chance.
He’s brought us back in games after Ponder dug us in a hole
He’s more fun to watch
He’s seems to have an amazing potential and tremendous upside
He’s a winner, and his teammates seem to play better when he’s in the game
He’s brought us back in games after Ponder dug us in a hole
Putting the blame solely on Ponder is a bit ignorant, but OK, I’ll give you that one.
He’s more fun to watch
This is also true, but shouldn’t be a reason to start him over Ponder.
He’s seems to have an amazing potential and tremendous upside
I totally agree, but remember back when Ponder got his first starts? We were all saying how much upside he has and he’s got real potential. Now that he’s had bad games all of that’s thrown out the window for some reason. Webb has no starts this year, and hasn’t came in in the first half as full time QB, so it’s impossible to say he has more than what Ponder has already shown.
He’s a winner, and his teammates seem to play better when he’s in the game
This is what really gets me. The whole “winner” thing when he hasn’t had a full game this year to prove himself (and hasn’t earned one in practices) is garbage.
The premiss behind his teammates playing better when he’s in the game is the same as the Tebow argument. The defense plays worse and has to respect the pass and run from him. While this is by NO means a bad thing, I fall back on him still not having his own game to start to prove he can single handedly take a game over and for defenses to learn his moves and get some tape on him.
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Dec 27, 2011 6:43 PM CST up reply actions
i whole-heartedly agree
When ponder came in at the end of the bears game, everyone was “omg the team played better with him in” and now everyone hates him… Get over it people, he’s a rookie, if he’s healthy he plays, he’s taken more accountability for losses than anyone else, when the secondary should take most of the blame, with the o line lining up right behind them.
If Webb starts, more power to him, I hope he does well, I like him, but with limited passing attempts, and playing time, I think that people are looking for a quick fix, and its not going to help us in the ling run
by Lunchpail on Dec 27, 2011 7:15 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Like I said, I hope I'm wrong
Since I don’t know how to make the cool boxes, I’ll use quotes lol.
“I fall back on him still not having his own game to start to prove he can single handedly take a game over and for defenses to learn his moves and get some tape on him.”
That’s why I think we need to give him a chance. If he fails he fails, but we need to give him a chance to see what he can do.
He's only earned his backup role so far
Ponder has shown the coaches more, plays more traditionally, and protects himself while still being very mobile. I completely understand you guys’ praise of Webb, but if Ponder is healthy he should start for the future of our franchise.
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Dec 27, 2011 8:10 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
And to make the "cool boxes"
Highlight what you want in the box and click the quotation marks above the body box. Same thing goes for linking texts, but you click the chain link.
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Dec 27, 2011 8:15 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
The "future of the franchise" shouldn't be just handed over to a guy who hasn't earned it.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Dec 27, 2011 8:37 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Ah, I see
Webb must have earned it in the practices, that’s why he got the start vs the Packers.
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Dec 27, 2011 8:45 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Ponder didn't earn it. The coaches rolled out the carpet for him.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Dec 27, 2011 8:57 PM CST up reply actions
Really now?
Didn’t McNabb start the first six games, though he was extremely uneffective? Both Ponder and Webb weren’t ready to start. To say that they played a lesser player because of how high he was selected or whatever you’re thinking, is ludacris.
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Dec 27, 2011 9:09 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Dream a little dream for me...
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Dec 27, 2011 9:11 PM CST up reply actions
Play Webb but not because Ponder got hurt or might get hurt
He’s starting to make a believer outta me – I say he deserves a few more looks at this point. Ponder’s gone downhill while Webb’s gone uphill.
I agree - hasn't he sort of earned one more look?
This game will be used to evaluate players for 2012. Why not get more game tape on Joe so it can be studied for the next several months. By other teams as well as ours.
by Caretaker QB on Dec 27, 2011 6:12 PM CST up reply actions
what if Joe starts to go downhill?
I don’t think either are going downhill….but you sound like a typical flip-flopping fan.
How about we try some patience with both….than we might actually develop a QB.
Just a thought.
I will not be PONDERing anything, ever again....I'm so tired of this pun. Maybe we could use antonyms to be different, like: "FORGET about last season, as we COGITATE about winning in 2011!"...Whatever, SKOL VIKES!!!
This^
Way to much flip flopping ..the fact is Im not sure the “Webbies” understand Webb has wonderful success when things break down. Thats all great and wonderful if that becomes your teams scheme of things. Thus it would be prolly very short lived scheme. Someone dis post something else where here with total sinserity that was off the chain..It was something on the lines of Webb doesnt even have to learn the playbook depth, just basics so when things break down he can add lib. With that for a football mentality you have to wonder. Im not sure what people expected this season ..but going back some actualy said 9-7, 8-8,10-6. I said 5-11 and noted that was being nice. There Is a scheme of things that dont just call for a “game day win.” It is an over all look in play and calling it on Ponder is way to early . This is the thing that is reality..The Vikes are at apoint that took alot of time to get to. The needs in rebuild mode are way more than some are actualy seeing. When in the build mose I dont think that Ponder has shown that he is not the QB the Vikes want to be starting also the last thing they are going to do at this point is come out and say we have a QB contriversy, it hold s up the future build and you should be building around your QB, and to the “webbies” Ponder will remain the starter at next years opener unless he goes injured. I get Webb is athletic (kind of redunt as much as it has been said). I do not think for a second the Vikes powers that be sit somewhere in Winter Park and say, “Dam we drafted Ponder at #12, we have to satrt him over Webb.” QB’s of the future are hindsite they have to play to look back at the career. Webb offers the knee jerk oooooo haaaaa! in games that dont mean sqwaut. Its not a slam to say it. Simple Ponder at this time is what the powers to be is the future until he totaly sucks but that would be a given to any QB. Not everything is based on the ooooahhhh we have seen of Webb, and it certainly is nopt the first time a starting QB has struggled and the back came in and did great but the following week the back up sat. That is why its called “Backup” Many here in and it is just here, nothing heard from the Vikes, have the idea that its a wait in the door way for it to revolve. We dont have enough info as of yet on the entire team to start the revolver door at QB. And some want to say they play Ponder just because they took him at #12, give it up, if teams sat and debated to start someone or not because of the round they were chosen in then we would not see great sports stories of guys that beat the odds. In short, alot more at stake than just oooo that guy had a good game that guy didnt. You play Ponder simple. As we all know hindsite is wonderful. Lets suppose it was a playoff game and AP got hurt ..it is what it is.
@}-----You've been Touched-----{@
I voted start Webb prematurely
From Pro Football Talk:
Eric Sugarman, the team’s trainer, said Ponder is not experiencing any post-concussion symptoms.
Ponder needs reps and he’s healthy, start him.
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Dec 27, 2011 6:16 PM CST reply actions
I have some optimism
I hope frazier is just bluffing and starts Webb anyway. Ponder gets worse with every snap and I don’t see how starting him helps the team win. He is not ready to be a week after week starter. A healthy demotion and offseason will probably do Ponder more good than anything.
Ponder sits!
No question about it. Put him on the bench. Nothing to do with his or Webb’s play, but you simply can’t risk concussions becoming an issue this early in his career. Our OL still sucks and hopefully will be better next year. The reason: we know a lot about concussions these days and the longer he can avoid getting hit, the better off he’ll be. We know that he is more succeptible to getting re-concussed this early, even if he’s cleared to play. The risk is too great and we have nothing to gain from it.
White Horn Gold Pants
Agreed...
Ponder should sit, go on vacation, and then come back ready for next year. Webb should do the same after this game. It (the game) means nothing, and I don’t think the 20 or so passes against the Bears will really add that much experiance to Ponder’s resume.
I just want to get out of this season without any further injuries to our stars…
I will not be PONDERing anything, ever again....I'm so tired of this pun. Maybe we could use antonyms to be different, like: "FORGET about last season, as we COGITATE about winning in 2011!"...Whatever, SKOL VIKES!!!
Do you REALLY want to win this game?
If you really, truly want to beat the Bears, then you play Joe Webb. Doesn’t matter if you “game plan” against him. He out-runs your plan. He out-maneuvers your pass rush, then runs twenty yards down field. He terrifies your defensive backfield, causing DB’s to leave their receivers to tackle the QB, who then hits a wide-open man.
Christian Ponder can’t do that, because he doesn’t terrify the defense with his uncanny running ability. Ponder is a last-ditch runner that looks for a place to slide or a safe angle out of bounds. Joe Webb keeps going; he’s big, fast and elusive enough to streak down field 60 yards. He’s fearless enough to dodge linebackers. He’s cool enough to scan the field and hit wide open receivers when their cover guys break off.
If you really, truly want to beat the Bears, then you play Joe Webb. Otherwise, play Ponder.
by jimbo55403 on Dec 27, 2011 6:47 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
Man crush revealed, Jimbo : )
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Dec 27, 2011 7:15 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Nice revisionist history...
I like Webb, but he had one average game against the Eagles, and was definitely stopped by the Lions last year.
True enough though, he definitely gives us the best chance to win at this juncture…everyone else is hurt or a career backup.
I will not be PONDERing anything, ever again....I'm so tired of this pun. Maybe we could use antonyms to be different, like: "FORGET about last season, as we COGITATE about winning in 2011!"...Whatever, SKOL VIKES!!!
Webb, Webb and more Webb.....
from now on.
by Mel Allen on Dec 27, 2011 6:55 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Am I missing something here?
My take on playing Ponder or not is not from a skills standpoint. Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t het get bounced out of the last game with a hard hit to the head? That’s a concussion in the football world is it not? One week later and LF has the gall to even “entertain” the idea of playing him. That is absurd and he could get hit out of alot more than a football game. Ponder should not be allowed to play……period! To say we still want to give him snaps so he can develop is insane and frankly sounds like a snow job excuse. IMO………..LF should not be coach anymore if he lets him play. Head injuries is serious business and even the NFL is looking at it differently these days.
by jjlovesfootball on Dec 27, 2011 7:06 PM CST reply actions
No way you play our QBOTF!
I thought the NFL had a policy in place about concussions and players not being allowed to play the following week?
I'm not entirely sure on the rule
But i think the concussed player has to pass the concussion test something like 5 days before the game to be eligible? Again, not entirely sure.
White Horn Gold Pants
If they start Ponder, I think Webb will be in there by the 2nd half anyway.
AWESOM-O is now initiating fart smell sequence.
i would play Webb
But I still think Webb is a backup QB.
When teams know that he will be starting or at least featuring heavily they can nullify his threat. His best performances have been when teams have had little or no time to adjust to him.
If he was anointed the starter, teams would have him sussed in a matter of 2-3 games…
He looks good bow because teams have been practicing how to beat Ponder.
Say Webb was your starter and Ponder came in during a 3rd quarter, he would have an.instant impact vs a defense that has been practicing option defense.
by Scottish Viking on Dec 27, 2011 7:30 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Couldn't solve Vick...
And I think Webb is better than Vick was when he came in the league. Faster bigger stronger and passing skills about the same.
Remember Detroit seen him before and it appeared for most of the week leading their last game that Webb would start. He didn’t but came in later to school their D.
by reebs on Dec 27, 2011 7:57 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
They've seen him once...ever
And Detroit didn’t gameplan for him to be in at all, because he’s second string. Also, these continued assumptions of Webb’s passing prowess are a bit rediculous. He had five passes vs Washington, and even though he completed four, the sample size doesn’t translate.
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Dec 27, 2011 8:33 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
He threw 2 tds in 4 completions, and ran for a 3rd td....cleaning up Ponder's mess.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Dec 27, 2011 8:42 PM CST up reply actions
What mess would you be talking about?
I don’t recall Ponder throwing any picks or leaving the defense in a bad spot
Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.
Well, he took a sputtering, stuttering offense and made them go.
He brought the team back from behind, and got the win.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Dec 27, 2011 8:58 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And without our star player. AP.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Dec 27, 2011 8:59 PM CST up reply actions
They weren't behind
I think Toby made the offense go, unless you would like to attribute that to the “Tebow” effect again
Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.
we were down 13-10
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Dec 27, 2011 9:03 PM CST up reply actions
My mistake then
Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.
I was talking about the Washington game
Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.
Actually Joe took the 1st Team snaps that weak because Ponder had a bruised hip.
It would have been odd that Detroit didn’t consider game-planning Webb. Plus they had tape from the last game of 2010 on Webb.
by Caretaker QB on Dec 27, 2011 8:57 PM CST up reply actions
How could the Lions know that though?
Unless Ponder was on the “doubtful” list. Teams don’t game-plan for #2 QB’s.
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Dec 27, 2011 9:13 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I had thought joe was starting until a day or two before the game
So I would imagine that is why they would game plan for him. I’m sure people with the lions know more than I do. Ponder was hurt against Denver and I remember reading ponder didn’t practice most of the week.
I’d the lions didn’t prepare for the possibility of Webb starting or taking over at some point then maybe they aren’t as improved this year as I thought.
by reebs on Dec 27, 2011 9:32 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
He was questionable all week.
Ponder’s first practice of the week was limited and he had to practice again on game-day morning before he got the start. Detroit prepared for both QBs.
by CanadianViking on Dec 28, 2011 2:26 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Webb is not faster than Vick was...
I will not be PONDERing anything, ever again....I'm so tired of this pun. Maybe we could use antonyms to be different, like: "FORGET about last season, as we COGITATE about winning in 2011!"...Whatever, SKOL VIKES!!!
You're right my bad
Vick ran a 4.36 and joe Webb had 4.40….I was waaaay off
by reebs on Dec 27, 2011 9:24 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Wrong
Vick was clocked in the high 4.2’s his last year at Virginia Tech.
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Dec 27, 2011 9:31 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
In a rookie minicamp following the draft Espn reported he ran a 4.36
Id give a link but I don’t know how to do it on this phone.
by reebs on Dec 27, 2011 9:34 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
You can't
No one runs the same exact time consistently, that was one of the many, many timed 40’s he did going into the pros and in college. His low time was in the 4.2’s though.
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Dec 27, 2011 9:41 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
No doubt he's fast maybe a little faster than webb
But I’ve been trying to find an “official” 40 time and all I can find is. An unofficial report of him running a fastest of 4.25. That doesn’t tell me if that was timed by an electronic timing system(accurate) or just some dude with a stopwatch(inaccurate)
All I know is webbs low time at the combine was 4.40 using an accurate timing system. He very well could have had lesser times in college too…
by reebs on Dec 27, 2011 9:53 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I think quickness and acceleration would be a better gauge
To bad you can’t measure that
Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.
But my point from above I feel is still valid
It was say Webb will always just be a backup because teams will solve him after a handful of games.
That is why I brought up Vick that has similar attributes from young Vick when he ran all the time and wasn’t an accurate passer and didn’t read defenses well. I just figure that if Vick could get away with it why not Webb while he learns to be a better “QB”?
I still think ponder should start if healthy due to all that is invested and that he hasn’t had a proper offseason yet. But if ponder doesn’t work out I could see Webb as a legit starter.
by reebs on Dec 27, 2011 10:14 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I think you forget that teams were figuring out Vick
He was losing his effectiveness as teams didn’t respect his ability to pass. Then he went to jail and came back magically a passer. He had a great year last year and was injured this year (no o-line like the Vikes)
Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.
That solves it!!
Webb needs to go to prison for a spell.
by reebs on Dec 27, 2011 11:01 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Haha maybe that's the secret
Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.
It all hinges
on Wheaties consumption the day before!
Build up your weaknesses until they become your strong points." --Knute Rockne
You can, actually
Shuttle time is a great indicator of quickness and acceleration. Ponder’s was the fastest of all Florida State players in 2010.
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Dec 27, 2011 10:33 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I think I remember that
I wonder what webbs was compared to ponders…? Ponder is no slouch but Webb seems to have more acceleration and quickness to me.
by reebs on Dec 27, 2011 11:06 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Ponder is probably faster in the shuttle
He’s a lot smaller and weighs less. If I had to guess, I’d say that Darren Sproles has the fastest shuttle in the NFL because of his size and quickness.
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Dec 28, 2011 12:12 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Somehow people think this "defenses haven't practiced for Webb, that's why he succeeds"
doesn’t apply to Ponder….nice rose tint glasses. Ponder came in as relief for McNabb, and everyone thought he should start right away….despite defenses not having game planned for Ponder. As everyone seems to be pointing out, the more film of Ponder that is available to the opposing teams, the less effective he is.
When Ponder was first drafted, people were saying he needed to start immediately because Webb didn’t have enough experience (yet Ponder had none). Now, at least one person was saying that Webb has had 2 minor injuries and shouldn’t play but Ponder is OK despite his hip stinger and concussion.
I guess I see a double standard against Webb and for Ponder. Those with a hard on for Ponder seem to list qualities that Webb and Ponder have in common, but suggesting that Webb shouldn’t play because of them and that Ponder should play in spite of them.
So I guess I don’t understand what the hate is against Webb in favor of Ponder. When Ponder was
Ponder plays the position like a typical QB
He doesn’t need to be uniquely game-planned for, unlike Joe Webb.
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Dec 27, 2011 8:40 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
But Ponder can't throw deep or throw sideline routes from the pocket. Webb can.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Dec 27, 2011 8:43 PM CST up reply actions
Webb can do the things that traditional "NFL" pocket qbs are supposed to do.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Dec 27, 2011 8:43 PM CST up reply actions
I agree to an extent
Both are very young and will only get better, i wasn’t debating that
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Dec 27, 2011 9:01 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
You have got to be R4F re-incarnated....
Guaranteed!!!
Also, R4W doesn’t make sense….he’s #14.
I will not be PONDERing anything, ever again....I'm so tired of this pun. Maybe we could use antonyms to be different, like: "FORGET about last season, as we COGITATE about winning in 2011!"...Whatever, SKOL VIKES!!!
I thought danny lloyd
Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.
Beat me to it
You’re a fast one, Troy : )
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Dec 27, 2011 9:24 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I've been living on this site to much lately :)
Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.
You've been living on this site??
I’m watching my Heat vs the Celtics and talking about the Vikings at the same time! ; )
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Dec 27, 2011 9:34 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Well I got wolves v bucks on one iPad and I keep refreshing this on the other
My wife hates me
Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.
I don't multi-task well :)
Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.
Heck of a turnaround
They were down by like 20 in the third
by reebs on Dec 27, 2011 10:00 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I was excited for Rubio but it looks like its the same old Wolves
Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.
I have hope
I seen a bunch of dumb turnovers but with a proven coach this year I think they will improve. I’d love for them to get more wins in the shortened season than last year. 0-2 stinks but at least they went down to the final couple possessions.
by reebs on Dec 27, 2011 11:12 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I liked Danny....
…and I know I was in the minority; but he was football intelligent and mostly reasonable. He had some quirkiness about him, but I accepted his viewpoint, and I got along with him fine.
R4W is reassert on his man-crush and you can’t really have an intelligent debate with that…..much like R4F.
I will not be PONDERing anything, ever again....I'm so tired of this pun. Maybe we could use antonyms to be different, like: "FORGET about last season, as we COGITATE about winning in 2011!"...Whatever, SKOL VIKES!!!
You should read the comment closer...
I said that niether should play so that no one else gets hurt…but it was said more in jest.
The prior Webb injuries were in response to all the people in a Bromance with Webb…he is human. I like the guy, and I want him to suceed just like Ponder; however it irritates me (as it always has) how fair-weather fellow Vikings fans can be….One week Ponder is the future, the next it is Webb…the next ???
How about we gain patience, and actually wait for our players to develop. We all sound irrational and stupid when we continually jump from one bandwagon to another…IMHO.
Plus, Rosencopter should start, and throw for 300 and 2td’s, then I will have an off-season reading about our three-way QB controversy.
I will not be PONDERing anything, ever again....I'm so tired of this pun. Maybe we could use antonyms to be different, like: "FORGET about last season, as we COGITATE about winning in 2011!"...Whatever, SKOL VIKES!!!
Its getting hard not to hop onto the Webb-mobile.
I’m all for whomever is starting, both QBs clearly have some potential, but it has been Joe Webb making the most of his opportunities that he’s been getting. Granted it was a small sample size, but I really liked what I saw from Webb sticking around the pocket against Washington. It was better than in Detroit. That’s the second time he’s outplayed Ponder this year. Frazier even felt strongly enough about it to adress it to the media.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Dec 28, 2011 11:10 AM CST up reply actions
Play Webb
Don’t risk permanent injury behind this line for someone who has had 2 bigger injuries (concussion and hip stinger)
It's about time someone brought this up "Ponder or Webb"
HA. Interesting topic. I can’t believe nobody has been discussing it until now.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
We were all too busy talking about how many Lombardi trophies Luck and Tebow will win
Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.
Lombardi is nothing compared to Tebow.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Dec 27, 2011 9:00 PM CST up reply actions
When will the NFL get it right and rename it to the Tebow?
Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.
As soon as he surpasses Andrew Luck as the greatest player in Everdom.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Dec 27, 2011 9:04 PM CST up reply actions
Regardless of who starts
I’d like to see Frazier let them both battle for the starting job next year. Whoever our QB is, he should earn it. The more I see of Webb, the more impressed I am. Webb’s last game was outstanding.
As for Ponder, I think he’s not played as well since the hip injury.
by Vikefandc on Dec 27, 2011 8:44 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I think the poll does a good job of explaining why MN has had so many QBs over the past couple of years
The fans always jump to whatever is the flavor of the week.
Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.
But, the fans don't make the decisions on who plays qb.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Dec 27, 2011 9:01 PM CST up reply actions
Tell that to Denver
Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.
Seriously, what does thatr say about Elway.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Dec 27, 2011 9:05 PM CST up reply actions
As much as we argue about Ponder/Webb
Thank god we don’t have that mess. With Tebow losing games now and looking downright shitty, Denver has to be looking QB which will only make the whole situation more nauseating.
Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.
REVENGE4QUINN
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Dec 27, 2011 9:15 PM CST up reply actions
Nice butt part
Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.
He gets no respect. He must be fuming.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Dec 27, 2011 9:19 PM CST up reply actions
I thought he was striking a "Blue Steal" gaze
Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.
Oh god, that movie should never be brought up in conversation…
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Dec 27, 2011 9:49 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Quinn obviously isn't an ambi-turner!
That movie was huge during my college days! I love it.
Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.
Stop this!!
He’s number 9, not 4. It just doesn’t work, same goes for Webb.
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Dec 27, 2011 9:45 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Elway to his credit
Has steered clear of John Fox and let him handle the depth chart and who’s been starting. They talk for sure along with Xanders, but being closer to the situation than you great folks here, it seems to me that Elway helps in scouting and representing the team publically, but leaves the coaching and depth chart decisions to Fox. He won’t stick his nose in and undermine the coach a la Jerry Jones or some of the other GM’s that are notorious for that.
We’ll be fine win or lose this weekend. If we lose and Tebow plays a bad game, there will probably more noise and speculation about drafting another QB. But bottom line, that would have to happen anyway, Quinn is a FA at the end of the year. How high that QB is drafted remains to be seen.
Either way I think Tebow enters the offseason as the guy and will no doubt have time to get better and work on the things he needs to work on. And if other guys are brought in to compete, so be it—-there should be competition.
People are talking about Orton coming back to bite us, and for sure, in this one game that move could backfire. But those of us that had to watch this guy for two years know that he isn’t or wasn’t the answer one way or another. All the 300 yd games he had and all the pretty spirals he threw amounted to a 12-22 record as a starter over the 2+years he was the #1 guy.
There might have been a lot of pressure from the fans
But in the end it was still John Fox that made the decision. 1-4 in the last year of a contract after turning into an INT machine didn’t help Orton at all.
As I've said before
I like Webb and though he should have gotten a chance following last year. Coaches though different and in the first grabbed a qb. So I feel since they’ve invested so much in ponder that if healthy he should start.
by reebs on Dec 27, 2011 9:13 PM CST via mobile reply actions
This topic is impossible for one reason
That reason is the O-lines ability to protect the quarterback. Its been terrible and it doesn’t allow either of our quarterbacks to be consistent. Therefore we see streaks of terrible play because they aren’t given the ample amount of time to do their jobs. Therefore, with Ponder likely hindered a little with a hip pointer and a concussion you would go with the healthier and more elusive QB in Webb.
PS: FIX THAT O-LINE NEXT YEAR!
I'm sorry, I said "ability"
I meant in-ability
I'm sorry about AP guys, but I have confidence he will work his butt off and come back as strong as ever!
I say sit Ponder, not because he’s better/worse than Webb, but because the kid had a concussion last week. He’s also been hurting ever since the Denver game. Let him heal up. It won’t jeopardize his future health, and you get to see more of what you got with Joe Webb. Going into next year, let them battle it out in TC and let the best man win, the other can be the backup. With all the prominent QB’s that have been shelved this year because of injury, we all know the value of a quality backup.
last game
gotta see if webb is nfl qb ready we know ponder needs to clear the cobwebs from his coconut. webb got passed over twice and hasnt complained time for a reward. kinda like when you give the full back a carry after blowing up lbs for a bunch of plays.
Minimizing the role of 1 or 2 franchise players is not the same as telling the team it's okay to lose!
We’ll just have to disagree about leaving AD in the game :)
If Ponder passed or passes his concussion test, I think he’ll start.
There’s no sense in shaking-up Ponders confidence at this point.
Ponder probably will start if the concussion is not a factor.
As far as Ponder’s confidence is concerned I think it is best if the concussion is a factor and Webb starts. Otherwise Ponder is likely to stink up the joint again and have his confidence injured even more.
The NDSU Bison rock. http://www.gobison.com/SportSelect.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=2400&SPID=695&SPSID=11850
by berserkerND on Dec 28, 2011 11:13 AM CST up reply actions
I'm happy with either,
to be honest.
"Like I said, I don’t think anybody on this team knows what schism is, let alone could use it in a sentence. I thought it was an STD when I first heard it. And I was like whoa, we preach abstinence around these parts." - Jared Allen
I believe Frazier said
If Ponder isn’t good to go for practice then Webb would start
"You can write articles and do whatever you want, you can break down every player. Good, bad or ugly. But we just aren't good enough as a team, as a group. Offensively, defensively and special teams, from the No. 1 on the roster to the last man on the roster. We just aren't good enough. It's as simple as that." - Chad Greenway
Why cant we keep all 3?
On the tight end front the Vikings waived Allen Reisner and promoted Mickey Shuler from the practice squad. Reisner was a hero in Mankato before the season began catching nearly everything thrown his way. He was cut from the team before the season began, signed the next day onto the practice squad after no other team deemed him worthy of a roster spot, promoted onto the team in November and then cut again now. He’ll finish his rookie season being active in 4 games netting one reception for 5 yards (the Atlanta game) and will try to find work next season with another team. Shuler is a more recognizable name being drafted last season during the Brad Childress era. He was waived before the season began, then was claimed by the Miami Dolphins catching two balls in six active games with them, tried out for the Bengals only to fail his physical, was then signed onto the Vikings practice squad and is now promoted. Many felt the Vikings should have kept Shuler over tight end Jeff Dugan last season, but that’s all a moot point now considering he’s back now. FROM Viking Age.
I’m serious, why don’t we keep all 3? 3 good young tight ends? Sorry but I thought that was the kind of thing you should look for . . .
I wish...
..people would just make comments that made a little bit of sense or gave a half educated opinion instead of trying to make some kind of comedic one liner or off the wall long-winded diatribe. Lets just talk some real football.
Frazier…pat Ponder on the ass, tell him good job, we’re gonna give you this week off and then apologize for not giving him a decent o-line to protect him properly.
First off, hat tip to one Mr. Toby Gerhart for playing like a beast and proving me right when I say that he could start for many other NFL teams.
Define “many.”
Arizona, greenbay, Minnesota, Indianapolis, Detroit(if best is going to keep getting ko’d) Washington…….
by Lunchpail on Dec 28, 2011 3:45 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Hutchinson on Injured reserve ???
I read that the Vikings put Hutch on the injured reserve because a concussion, if this is true we should play Webb for two reasons.
1- our OL will be terrible and our QB will have to run for his life
2- You have to be consistent if you are not playing your OG because a concussion you can not play you QBOTF
Voted other....not a runner unless life depends on it.
Give Ponder some time to clear the cobwebbs and Joe has earned the chance to start. I hope to see a true QB competition come training camp and may the best man win. I don’t care where they were drafted. I want to win dammit!
Because he's white?
Do you think the fact that Ponder is white and AP is black plays in to your different tratement of them? That AP is more expendable as a black running back than Ponder is as a white QB?
My guess is race plays at least some role in your thinking (even if it’s only 10%).
Frazier should have sat AP. If Ponder passes the concussion test, they should play him.
This isn’t a troll move.
by Darren From The Bronx on Dec 28, 2011 9:44 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Come on dude..
Really? This has nothing to do with race.
AP is our starting running back. He was healthy and wanted to play. He is the best option to win the game. You play him. It was a accident that injured AP. It could have happened on a single snap or not at all.
Ponder is coming off a concussion. When you receive a concussion it is very easy to get another one if you don’t give it the proper time to heal. The second one is then usually way worse. Look no further than Sidney Crosby for evidence of this. Ponder has a very good chance of getting concussed again, even if he passes a concussion test.
Plus AP is way more valuable than Ponder. That is evident on the field, contract wise and in the stands. How many Ponder jerseys do you see vs Peterson jerseys?
"Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game because they almost always turn out to be—or to be indistinguishable from—self-righteous sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time."
― Neal Stephenson, Cryptonomicon
This is about postion not race.
This is about Ponder being a rookie; this is about Ponder being too banged up to be effective. Why bring up race when there’s absolutely no reason to?
AP has proven that his being on the field gives us the best chance to win. He was healthy enough to play. He was our best option at RB. He WANTED to play. THAT’s why he played. Ponder is a rookie who we’re trying to develop into a solid QB. He is taking a beating and his body is banged up and we’ve got a backup QB in Webb who gives us as good a chance or better to win against the Bears. KJSegall said it himself that his motivation that Webb play over Ponder is that Webb is healthy. He made that perfectly clear. The health factor in and of itself gives him an edge. There’s no reason to play Ponder.
and ladies and gents we have 'that guy'
thank you for amazing views. I would like to high five you… in the face… with a brick
by Shaggy_Viking on Dec 28, 2011 10:17 AM CST up reply actions
or a shovel.
’Tis the season you know. lol
"Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game because they almost always turn out to be—or to be indistinguishable from—self-righteous sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time."
― Neal Stephenson, Cryptonomicon
That's a healthy reply
Like I said, I think race could - not definitley, but could- play some role in an an analysis of the value of different players. Maybe subconciouslyand maybe to a very small degree, but it is a possibility.
I can certaintly can see disagreeing with that hypothesis and I can see why it could seem out of left field for you if you tend to accept everything at face value.
But your response seems to indicate that you swallow everything that comes your way.
And that you have rage issues.
but it’s all good dude.
by Darren From The Bronx on Dec 28, 2011 11:07 AM CST up reply actions
If its to a very small degree, then its probably negligible
and doesn’t even bear bringing up as a discussion point. Come on.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Dec 28, 2011 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
Chuckd is that you?
Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.
Nope
I thnk it has more to do with the fact that they reached for ponder and that he is 1st round pick. This situation is like Heath shuler vs Gus frerotte debate. Heath was a 1st round pick from a big school and Gus was from a small school picked in the 7th round. After going back and forth between the two Gus won the job. This might happen again here.
BTW the race card is used by people who deny that racism exists in any form or fashion. That is the real race card. This race card has power not the mythical one that posters complain about. So lets drop the race arguments because their are a lot of people who are too stupid or just ignore what happens in the real world.
by chuckd@79 on Dec 28, 2011 7:34 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Webb for '11 Ponder in'12
It is so hard to have both players on the team at QB. Webb is better at the moment because he is a purely athletic beast. Unfortunately, that flying by the seat of your pants doesn’t last long. Eventually teams will learn to key on this, and make him mince meat. I say start him however, and give Ponder some motivation this offseason, and theres no sense in risking further injury. The kid has got some serious talent, and no matter what happens sunday, it will be Ponder under center in the season opener. All offseason he will mature into a much more capable QB than Webb; who hopefully will be moved to slot receiver/option receiver.
If Webb is good enough to win us games as a backup QB
Why would we move him to receiver? He’d better be a Pro-bowl caliber WR for it to be worth it. We’re drafting and/or signing a WR or two this offseason, making it that much more unlikely we use him there in 2012.
by Asher14 on Dec 28, 2011 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
but if the coaches pulled head from ass
they would see that the wr may not be as insanely crucial as o line and dbs. We prob wouldn’t get a wr til at least the 3rd 4th round unless we trade our low first round for a couple of picks. Either way Webb can choose pretty much any path he wants on this team to compete for a starting job, but as far as QB, eventually he will be surpassed by Ponder. He has a very legitimate shot to be a long term receiver, but not a long term QB. He is a wild cat QB and that style of play lasted all of a season for miami. For that reason I would want to stick with one QB for a couple of years. One leader for the team, and that WILL be Ponder sooner than later.
by Shaggy_Viking on Dec 28, 2011 10:37 AM CST up reply actions
wildcat quarterback???
Sorry, I respectfully disagree. Webb is such an amazing runner, that some people can’t see beyond that. Reports that Webb just takes off and runs are totally false. When Webb has time he does sit in the pocket. Webb stands back there sidestepping the pass rush, and continuing to look downfield. Aaron Rogers runs pretty good, does that make him a running QB?? And no, Webb is no Aaron Rogers. When Webb was drafted, the draft prognosticators didn’t think Webb could make the jump from University of Alabama Birmingham (UAB) as a QB. Big jump. They envisioned Joe as a WR due to his incredible speed. Joe lasted until the sixth round because Joe was known for dropping the ball. The Vikings tried Joe at receiver, and he wasn’t that impressive. They tried him at QB. Its obvious that’s where he belongs. Just because the Viking brass is under the impression that they are fooling the opposition by having Joe run. It doesn’t make Joe a running QB. Webb is just as much of a traditional QB as Ponder is. The Viking just need to devote some high draft picks to the O-line, and give these guys a chance.
by vking1 on Dec 28, 2011 12:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
WR is not as pressing as OL and CB
…but we need to address getting a deep-threat to complement Percy, Rudolph, and the run game. Believe me WR will be addressed and it doesn’t have to be in the draft.
And to say Webb is a wildcat QB is preposterous. Only time will tell if he’ll ever be a legit starter, but he’s already proven he’s a real QB. The fact they kept him as our #3 QB the past couple years indicates he’s more than some gadget QB. That should also be obvious from watching him play.
Joe Webb needs to start final game
Not only has Ponder received a concussion last week, he’s been running for his life almost every play. Ponder has been getting more and more skittish every week. Starting Christian the final week will not do him any good, but it could be detrimental. Let Joe get some meaningful snaps. In the offseason hopefully the Vikings will draft a LT in the first round and maybe even another O-lineman somewhere. Hopefully there will be an honest competition next year instead of Frazier being married to the Ponder pick. I think both of these guys could be pretty good.
by vking1 on Dec 28, 2011 1:31 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I wanted Webb to start the Washington game
Not because I think he is a better QB than ponder, but because I think we need some real game time to assess what his ability is. It seems a strange personnel decision to have a project QB and a rookie QB at the same time which is why I was a little concerned with the Ponder pick. What I felt we needed was to improve our o-line and to grab a veteran to start and to mentor Webb – if Webb wasn’t developing, then we could grab a QB this year’s draft. With a rookie who probably has a better understanding of reading the game (from being a pure college QB) what opportunities does Webb have to develop?
I wanted Webb to start in the Washington game and in the Chicago game. I am not convinced that he gives us a better chance of winning but it’d be a chance to assess his development, and if he did really well, maybe become a trade target for another team that we could bargain for 5th rounder or better to address our areas of need. I find him exciting to watch, but I believe that Ponder is our better long term bet if we can improve our o-line and wideouts. I would like to have evidence to go on in making that decision though.
I wouldn’t like to lose Webb, but I don’t think the balance of our QB depth chart (Rookie+Project) is helpful to either him or Ponder in the short term, or us in the long-term.
If we start swapping Webb and Ponder around I'm going to be upset
Childress did it with TJ over and over again and I think we all know what happened there. I’m not saying that TJ would have ever been good, but I know for a fact that Childress bungled the way he handled it.
I would prefer they don’t do the same thing with Ponder and Webb. If Ponder is hurt let Webb play, if Ponder is fine then he plays out the rest of the season as the starter. You have to let the guy pull himself together. Play through his adversity, otherwise the coaches are the ones that don’t trust themselves and that my friends would be a much bigger problem for us.
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
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