Vikings Draft Watch: Matt Kalil Possibly Going Back To USC?
by Christopher Gates on Dec 8, 2011 8:29 PM CST
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PrintWith the Indianapolis Colts having the top overall pick in the 2012 NFL Draft seemingly on lockdown already, the battle is ongoing for the right to draft the first non-Andrew Luck player on the board this April. If the season were to end today, the Vikings would, indeed, have the second overall pick in the draft.
It has widely been assumed that the Vikings would grab USC offensive tackle Matt Kalil with that high first round selection. . .which makes it a bit disappointing that rumors are swirling that the 6'6", 295-pound junior is planning on returning to Southern Cal for his senior season. It's not a move that would make a lot of sense to me, personally. . .if Kalil declares for the draft, he's a top three selection and an instant millionaire, but I'm not Matt Kalil, so I don't know what else he's taking into consideration.
Now, we've been saying all year that the Vikings have three major need areas going into the 2012 draft: offensive line, wide receiver, and secondary. The consensus, as of now (and I realize a lot can change between now and the combine) is that there is one uber-elite prospect at each of those positions. Kalil is the consensus best offensive lineman in the draft, the top wide receiver on the board is Oklahoma State's Justin Blackmon, and the best cornerback on the board appears to be LSU's Morris Claiborne. There are a couple of solid offensive line prospects in Stanford's Jonathan Martin and Iowa's Riley Reiff. . .but you don't take "solid" at #2 overall. You're looking for spectacular.
One thing that could help the Vikings is the fact that, depending on who declares, this could be a very heavy quarterback-heavy top of the draft. CBS Sports, who is the source of the Kalil rumor linked above, has three quarterbacks in the top six on their "big board". Luck is the consensus #1 overall pick, and we've known that for a long time, but Kalil's USC teammate, Matt Barkley, and the amazing Robert Griffin III from Baylor are also in the top six, to say nothing of guys like Oklahoma's Landry Jones, Texas A&M's Ryan Tannehill, and Christian Ponder's successor at Florida State, E.J. Manuel. All six of those quarterbacks appear in the top 50 on CBS' big board, and a good combine or pro day performance could jump them up the board as well.
Oh, and of those six guys, only Tannehill is a senior. . .the rest of them are juniors. Again, it depends on who decides they're coming out. But if enough of them come out and the Vikings can find themselves a trading partner that is crazy for one of those quarterbacks, they could trade down for extra picks and get one of the two offensive tackles I mentioned earlier.
Kalil is the easy pick for the Vikings if they end up at #2 overall and he decides he's entering the draft after all. But if he's not there, what do you suppose the Vikings should do?
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Knowing the Vikings
I love my VIKES but they have not shown draft knowledge in a long time. The number of hits verses misses. I would not be surprised if they draftred a total BUST or someone they could have gotten in the second or third round. I have NO confidence in this front office. Bring in TUNA and a coup0le others and have then evaluate your talent evaluators and report to Zygi.
They would probably recommend a couple good GM’s and replacement of some of the scout staff.
The Vikings need to build but they do not have builders in place. I HOPE I AM WRONG.
HAHAHA
Greenway
Adrian
Jared Allen Trade
Percy
Chris Cook.
Our last 5 top 34 picks. An on pace HOF RB and DE. A solid possible pro bowler, a perennial probowl receiver, and a blooming number 1 CB.
Hows Miami been doing with Parcells at the top? Ok thought so
Ponder to Harvin for 6!
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Dec 8, 2011 10:01 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
To me (and possibly others)
Overall draft success isn’t measured in the first 1.5 rounds…it’s measured in the later rounds.
Only a small percentage of players taken in the late rounds
Even make a 53man roster. You get the odd steal, but thats it. For the most part you can determine a draft successful or not just based on the first 3 rounds.
One thing Childress was good at was drafting. The Vikings drafted as well as any other team in the NFL during his tenure(maybe minus his last year, lol).
I'll have your mother call you shortly.
Good FOs
Regularly get guys who turn into players in rounds 4-5 too. By that I mean guys who start or play enough to contribute.
I don’t know Chilly being good at drafting. I can’t remember which contributor, but one of them did a pretty thorough analysis that said otherwise. Even of Percy’s list above, Cook hasn’t exactly been a winning situation (although not for reasons that can really be scouted) and Greenway has been decent but not performed to expecations.
No doubt Percy and Adrian were good picks, but there are plenty of counter examples.
I like Greenway still a lot...
though tackles are not exactly a great way to evaluate a player.
Tackles by themselves, no
But tackles relative to the rest of the defense, yes. It’s not insignificant that he is our best linebacker.
like i said...
i like Greenway. I still think he’s going to be one of the better LB’s in the league (top 10-15 at least?) over the next 4-5 years.
Like Robison, Ballard, Edwards, Griffen, Sanford, Webb, and Mistral Raymond.
None of these guys are pro-bowlers but they were all picked in round four or later and have been solid contributors. The Vikings have been great with their first round picks, about average with their second rounders, terrible with their third round picks, and pretty good with their late round picks. I wouldn’t rate the Vikings in the top five for their Wilf era picks but they’re definitely better than league average so they’re that 6-15 range for draft success.
by CanadianViking on Dec 9, 2011 4:26 PM CST up reply actions
agree...
and I know a lot of people dislike Spielman. I am not one of them. I think he should be given full GM control and more power. Not less.
It'd be interesting to see how Spielman would do on his own. I'd guess that he'd be better but it's hard to tell which bad decisions were on him and which were more Childress/Frazier's fault.
Anyway, the committee approach should be scrapped as it causes problems when there’s disagreement.
by CanadianViking on Dec 9, 2011 8:48 PM CST up reply actions
I'll give em credit
for getting Robison, Edwards, Griffen, and Ballard in the 4th rounds of their respective drafts. Sullivan was a 6th rounder, right? Jasper Brinkley was in the 5th I believe and when he is healthy he will be a solid player for us – again. Joe Webb is another hit — if we can find a way to use him. Ponder and Rudolph picks look good to me. Not so much…Tyrell Johnson, Troy Williamson, Asher Allen… That’s off the top of my head. I’m too lazy to look right now.
Rudolph's a good pick
In the sense that he looks like he will be a very good player.
But it’s a bad pick in the sense that we really didn’t have a need for a TE and we really did have a need for a LT, RG, CB, WR, FS or SS.
I don't agree that we didn't have a need for a TE...
Musgrave’s scheme calls for a lot of two-TE sets, and Shiancoe is a FA after this year and is getting older. If anything, we might need another one at some point in this draft.
If we follow that logic....
Than Adrian Peterson was a terrible pick because we had needs at other positions and already had a 1,200 yard rusher at RB…
Draft for the future. Draft BPA. And especially don’t draft for need in the 2nd round and later.
Seriously?
Blooming CB? For what, domestic violence poster boy of the year?
Dont even put him in the same room with AP and Percy. I wouldnt look at Jared as a draft pick, he was 3 years off the draft before we got him
2011 Vikings, keeping the liquor industry in the green ALL YEAR LONG!
But we gave up draft picks to get him, so I see where he is coming from.
We made the decision that he was worth more than anyone we could have got with those picks
Cook IS a blooming CB
He is in trouble with the law right now, but that doesn’t change the way he was playing at the beginning of the year. You can’t blame the front office for failing to anticipate that he would derail his own career. There was no indication that something this serious would happen with him.
Sorry I dont see him blooming before this happened.
Our pass coverage has sucked for years. We passed up GREAT CBs in the draft, and now we are paying for it.
2011 Vikings, keeping the liquor industry in the green ALL YEAR LONG!
You weren't watching then
Cook played extremely well for a second year player against some of the leagues best big WR’s before he got himself into big trouble. If you didn’t see that, you’re just not paying attention and I can’t help that.
Or, we dont see them same things...
shocking someone can not always agree with someone else…
Circle of life kid.
2011 Vikings, keeping the liquor industry in the green ALL YEAR LONG!
Cook was showing promise
That’s about as far as I’d take it
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
Cook improved significantly
from his disastrous rookie year. He was solid in coverage. Did a great job in the Chargers game (Vincent Jackson). Heck, he was even going mano-y-mano with Megatron with no safety help in the first Detroit game. Coaches had a ton of confidence in him. For seeing limited field time last year, rehabbing two injuries, and having no OTAs, he was on the right track before he got himself in legal trouble. He was no pro bowler but he was “blooming” into his own.
Dline is starting to become a glaring weakness as well
But right now there is not a dline prospect that has emerged as a top 5 talent. With all the weaknesses, particularly on defense, I think the Vikes have to go BPA (not including RB). If Kalil stays in school, I would say that Claiborne will be the BPA.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
i'm not so sure
if 2 or 3 options are wide open from the get go, the d line doesn’t have a shot at getting to the QB. there is that pat williams road block missing, for sure, but i think the young guys will grow to fill the hole or maybe a draft pick/FA. i still like guion, ballard, griffin as young guys with potential. only starting running back is 100% secure, everywhere else needs a player/depth
Why are we talking about this?
Kalil said the rumors are false this afternoon.
“I woke up to mayhem,” Kalil said. "I guess it was kind of a glimpse of what’s going to be happening.
“I’m not close to making a decision. That will probably happen in the next couple weeks. No decision has been made. I just started thinking about the process I’m going to go through to make the decision.
“But I think I got a thousand new followers this morning on my Twitter account.”
Let’s not count our dead chickens before the eggs break…
talking about what? Our porous defense
Kalil hasn’t made his mind up. So there’s a chance he stays in school. All I said is IF he stays in school, then we should draft Claiborne. That has been my position all along.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
depending on who else is there...
we could probably trade down and still get Claiborne. Right now the other teams are:
St. Louis Rams; no way they’re taking a CB
Jacksonville Jaguars; ditto IMO.
Carolina Panthers; maybe, but pretty wide open
Washington Redskins; don’t see it; QB time
Cleveland Browns; a lot TBD
Philadelphia Eagles; not a chance
Miami Dolphins; again, not a chance; QB or other skill positions
Tampa Bay Bucs; possible
Those are all the other wins (besides us and Indy) with 4 wins or less. I think Claiborne will end up lasting to the 7 range or so at least.
Well I should have clarified
My thought has been IF Kalil isn’t available we should trade down. But obviously that depends if there are any takers.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
Sorry, I meant why are we talking about Kalil staying at all
When it’s an unverified rumor that the player himself has contradicted. I don’t see any scenario where we pass on Kalil if he’s available to us.
I wouldnt go as far as saying he contradicted the story
All he did was say that he has not decided. But I guess it was news around here because at 2-10, there’s not much else going on.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
Luck staying with his coach leaving was beyond crazy...
Maybe these guys are getting a brain and thinking a college degree is a smart thing to have.
2011 Vikings, keeping the liquor industry in the green ALL YEAR LONG!
Nope
They’re widely seen as a package deal.
If they stay or go, they’re both doing it. Supposedly people are projecting USC having a chance at a National Title next season if they stay.
I actually hope they're awesome next year...
so the 2012 SEC champ can beat them by 40 in the BCS title game.
you mean USC won't make the title game?
I agree. But if they do, they’ll get slaughtered by a far superior SEC team, just like every other year.
Both will not happen
The last time the SEC teams played USC they got smoked. Who knows what would happen in another game especially a title game.
It would be fun for me to watch as a USC fan.
I cannot make any declarations like you though. It would be meaningless.
I look forward to watching the game if it happens.
you mean about 10 years ago?...
and are you talking about Auburn, who ended up being terrible that year?
Pac10 fans always seem to want to compare their best teams with the SEC’s worst in a given year, and act like it’s even. Top SEC team is far better than the top Pac10 team, 2nd best SEC team much better than second best Pac10 team, etc. It’s just reality now. And it’s why the conference has won the last SIX championships now, with 4 different schools.
unnamed sources:
Southern California left tackle Matt Kalil is “set to return” for his senior season according to a source close to the situation.
Unless there’s an actual name behind that source….it’s just a rumor!
Well, this would be problematic
Right now, though, I don’t think we’ll get the #2 spot, unless STL wins another game. I’m pretty sure, as it stands, they hold the #2 selection based on strength of schedule being weaker than our’s.
Which, if Kalil comes out, is fine, because they take Blackmon and finally get a WR they’ve been craving, and we get Kalil for an OT we need, and everything’s gravy.
But if Kalil stays in, then I think Blackmon would be awesome.. but then the Rams are ahead of us, and they’ll be snagging him. That would be a lose-lose!
The last I saw, we had the number 2 by a few percentage points on strength of schedule.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!!!
No Vikes are currently set to draft 3rd
Rams have the tie breaker due to weaker strength of schedule
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
honestly it depends on where you look I've seen people say #2 and #3
You’d think it would be pretty straight forward but obviously not.
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
no its #3
First determining factor is record, second is SOS. Vikes and Rams have same record, but rams have a weaker schedule, thus they get the tiebreaker.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
For now they do, but if you look at remaining opponents, we will will SOS
by the end of the year, especially with Chicago loosing, tampa loosing, etc… our gets weaker and weaker every week, while there’s gets stronger the more SF, etc… win
Exactly it depends on if you just look at games played or try and look to future games as well
I think. In the end it doesn’t matter where we are today only where we are when the season ends.
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
I'm only counting on what we know right now
We don’t know how the remaining season will play out. But as of right now, we are drafting 3rd.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
You are correct sir
We suck worse than you guys. We should get first pick (non-Luck), and all indications are that most of our sucking takes place on the O-line. Personally I’d trade down as a first option rather than a second option, but one has to consider whether or not our suck ass FO guys will still be here or not. If so, God knows what we’ll do. Probably draft a long-snapper or a guy to sit in the waterboys chair so it doesn’t blow away while the waterboy is busy.
Wolf. Wolfgang Wolf
Sorry that Bradford has been hurt this year
I’m a Sooner fan, so I got a soft spot for Sam.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
he's still gonna be a stud longterm...
just gotta protect him.
Thats as of now
If you factor in the remaining games teams records as well the Vikings have a 1 or 2 game edge. Of course that is all subject to change. The swaying teams seems to be the Rams played the Packers and the Vikings played the Cardinals.
by VikesFanInTulsa on Dec 9, 2011 9:25 AM CST up reply actions
Exactly
That’s why I said “currently.”
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
I posted this exact thing yesterday...
with all remaining opponents/records, etc. will update it from here out.
Trade Down
If Kalil isn’t there when we draft, we should trade down to get a 2nd 1st rounder. Then go Reiff/Martin and grab BPA after that.
SKOL Vikings!
by CCNorsemen on Dec 8, 2011 9:48 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Cleveland and New England...
we have to hope that Cleveland gets enamored with RG3 or Barkley. Although there are plenty of scenarios where getting a #1/high #2 this year/#3 or a #1 or 2 next year would be quite palatable.
don't forget Cincy
trading down is absolutely doable with any top 5 pick, with any of those teams (amongst others).
the biggest factor will be whether they want to trade with us, or if they feel they can wait a few picks to make a trade. we might be in a position (pick 2-4) where other teams won’t want to trade a king’s ransom, especially if the player they are targeting has a good chance of making it out of the top 5.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
right..
we’ve got to hope that one of those teams locks on to one guy (RG3 would be my best guess) and wants to make sure they get him.
good point on Cincy; totally forgot about them. Though that would be a pretty big drop in either a trade with them or NE. We’d miss out on Martin in that case; not sure I’d go for that. I think Martin will go within the top 10 so I wouldn’t want to drop below that. And Oakland/Cincy/NE/New Orleans will not be in the top 10. Where we currently sit, the Oakland (Cincy’s by trade) and Cincinnati picks are at #20 and #21 by strength of schedule.
Cleveland is at like #8 and 19 I think, That would be the only trade down I would consider if Kalil is out.
We need a top talent desperately
yep, sorry, crosspost...
they’d currently sit at #7 and #19 if my SOS chart math is right; I have a running spreadsheet of the position for all teams currently with SOS. I haven’t moved them up or down based on their loss last night, and won’t until we know what the other 3 win (Jags) and 4 win teams do.
just for fun we could look at the trade value chart...
though the values may have changed for teams with the new CBA/rookie salary scale.
- pick is worth 2600 points
- pick is worth 2200 points
- pick is worth 850 points
- pick is worth 800 points
- pick is worth 380 points (this would be Cincy’s current #2 pick spot)
So basically it would cost Cincy the #20/#21/#52 pick and probably another pick or two to move up. Don’t think they’d do that, and there doesn’t seem to be a great, glaring area of “need” for them to move up either. I think we all know NE will not make a big move like that; they like draft picks too much and do too well with them to make that type of a move. I think our hope has to be Cleveland. They would currently sit at #7 (their pick) and #19 (Atlanta’s). #7 pick is worth 1500 and #19 pick is worth 875. So 2375 total. That puts the value in between the #2 and #3 pick. If we end up 2, they’d have to give us slightly more by the chart. If #3, we’d have to give them something back.
I think only Cleveland would be our best shot at moving down.
It is rumored that they are not happy with McCoys progression. If they want a top QB they could trade up, or if they want Richardson. Trent Richardson may be why Cinici would want to move up to, if they are unhappy with Benson
yep...
agreed. I think we have to hope that Colt flounders the rest of the year even more, or has some major concussion symptoms lingering (that sounds horrible, I know).
I just wouldn’t want to trade back that far to Oakland’s pick (Cincy) and I don’t think they’d want to move up that far. Cleveland is our best bet for 2 1st rders. Though again, it wouldn’t exactly be terrible to move down a few spots and still acquire a high 2nd rder.
From what I can tell...
only 2 teams have 2 2nd rders currently; Philadelphia (Arizona’s) and New England (Oakland’s). Philadelphia might be inclined to move up if there’s a guy they really like, but I don’t know; Reid usually likes extra picks.
I also forgot how absolutely screwed Oakland is; they only have their 3rd rd pick left within the first 4 rounds of the draft. And remember they may be losing their #1 pick (depends on playoffs; at least their #2 pick) for 2013 as well.
disagree entirely...
but more picks equals more chances.
OK. Here are their drafts since 2007
2007 Draft
1 – 24 – New England Patriots – Brandon Meriweather – S – Miami (FL) – ACC – gone
4 – 127 – New England Patriots – Kareem Brown – DT – Miami (FL) – ACC – gone
6 – 180 – New England Patriots – Justin Rogers – DE – SMU – gone
6 – 202 – New England Patriots – Mike I. Richardson – CB – Notre Dame – gone
6* – 208 – New England Patriots – Justise Hairston – RB – Central Connecticut – gone
6* – 209 – New England Patriots – Corey Hilliard – OT – Oklahoma State – Big 12 – gone
7 – 211 – New England Patriots – Oscar Lua – LB – USC – Pac-10 – gone
7* – 247 – New England Patriots – Mike Elgin – C – Iowa – gone
2008 Draft
1 – 10 – New England Patriots – Jerod Mayo – LB – Tennessee – SEC
2 – 62 – New England Patriots – Terrence Wheatley – CB – Colorado – Big 12 – gone
3 – 78 – New England Patriots – Shawn Crable – LB – Michigan – Big Ten – gone
3 – 94 – New England Patriots – Kevin O’Connell – QB – San Diego State – MWC – gone
4 – 129 – New England Patriots – Jonathan Wilhite – CB – Auburn – SEC – gone
5 – 153 – New England Patriots – Matthew Slater – WR – UCLA – Pac-10
6 – 197 – New England Patriots – Bo Ruud – LB – Nebraska – Big 12 – gone
2009 Draft
2 – 34 – New England Patriots – Patrick Chung – S – Oregon – Pac-10
2 – 40 – New England Patriots – Ron Brace – DT – Boston College – ACC
2 – 41 – New England Patriots – Darius Butler – CB – Connecticut – Big East – gone
2 – 58 – New England Patriots – Sebastian Vollmer – OT – Houston – C-USA
3 – 83 – New England Patriots – Brandon Tate – WR – North Carolina – ACC – gone
3* – 97 – New England Patriots – Tyrone McKenzie – LB – South Florida – Big East – gone
4 – 123 – New England Patriots – Rich Ohrnberger – G – Penn State – Big Ten – IR
5* – 170 – New England Patriots – George Bussey – G – Louisville – Big East – gone
6 – 198 – New England Patriots – Jake Ingram – LS – Hawaiʻi – WAC – gone
6* – 207 – New England Patriots – Myron Pryor – DT – Kentucky – SEC – IR
7 – 232 – New England Patriots – Julian Edelman – WR – Kent State – MAC
7 – 234 – New England Patriots – Darryl Richard – DT – Georgia Tech – ACC – gone
2010 Draft
1 – 27 – New England Patriots – Devin McCourty – CB – Rutgers – Big East
2 – 42 – New England Patriots – Rob Gronkowski – TE – Arizona – Pac-10
2 – 53 – New England Patriots – Jermaine Cunningham – DE – Florida – SEC
2 – 62 – New England Patriots – Brandon Spikes – LB – Florida – SEC
3 – 90 – New England Patriots – Taylor Price – WR – Ohio – MAC – gone
4 – 113 – New England Patriots – Aaron Hernandez – TE – Florida – SEC
5 – 150 – New England Patriots – Zoltan Mesko – P – Michigan – Big Ten
6* – 205 – New England Patriots – Ted Larsen – C – NC State – ACC – gone
7 – 208 – New England Patriots – Thomas Welch – OT – Vanderbilt – SEC – gone
7* – 247 – New England Patriots – Brandon Deaderick – DT – Alabama – SEC
7* – 248 – New England Patriots – Kade Weston – DT – Georgia – SEC – gone
7* – 250 – New England Patriots – Zac Robinson – QB – Oklahoma State – Big 12 – gone
2011 Draft
2 – 33 – New England Patriots – Ras-I Dowling – CB – Virginia – ACC
2 – 56 – New England Patriots – Shane Vereen – RB – California – Pac-10
3 – 73 – New England Patriots – Stevan Ridley – RB – LSU – SEC
3 – 74 – New England Patriots – Ryan Mallett – QB – Arkansas – SEC
5 – 138 – New England Patriots – Marcus Cannon – OT – TCU – MWC
5 – 159 – New England Patriots – Lee Smith – TE – Marshall – C-USA – gone
6 – 194 – New England Patriots – Markell Carter – DE – Central Arkansas – Southland – PS
7 – 219 – New England Patriots – Malcolm Williams – CB – TCU – MWC – PS
They have no one from the 2007 draft still on the team.
They have two players from the 2008 draft with their 2nd and 3rd round picks gone.
In 2009 they did better but still missed on a 2nd and two 3rd round picks.
in 2010 they did better but missed again on a 3rd round pick.
2011 is too early but taking those two backs may come back to bite them as well as taking Mallett.
I do not see very good results through the first 3 rounds at all. Maybe you do? I would expect more from a team that does “well” with their picks.
I think they do very well moving around the draft but the picks have not been good IMO.
I realize the Vikings missed out on some of their picks too but I do not believe the Vikings have drafted very well during the Childress era beyond the first round and a couple of second round picks.
they have what?
6 probowl-quality players out of those drafts?
I’d say that’s pretty damn impressive, personally.
You have lower standards than I do
They did pretty bad in the second and third rounds up until 2010 which could end up being bad if Spikes and Cunningham do not pan out.
I see three players that made the Pro Bowl out of this list and they already dumped one who the Vikings did not even want this year (Meriweather). It looks like Gronkowski will make the Pro Bowl this year but not McCourty or Mayo.
That is four players. I do not see the other two.
good assessment
i agree that while Cincy and NE ‘could’ have a desire to move up, it’s incredibly unlikely. Cleveland is the best bet — the question is, are we the optimal trade partner??
if they can wait a few picks to trade up, they will — and that’s assuming they even have to trade up. lest we forget, Holmgren pulled a helluva trade last year — he’s not stupid enough to be on the other end of a similar deal in 2012.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
This is a hard decision
Because we need a WR and a CB almost as bad as we need a LT. I think though that Blackmon is BPA over Claiborne at #2. I really like both players and would be fine with either, but one thing that stands out to me about Blackmon is his character, his person off the field matches his play on it, I would draft him #2 just based on that.
P/S Kalil please come out!
WR
I can’t say that WR is anywhere near LT (and all other line positions) and CB….WR is a distant 3rd or 4th even
Line has improved over the course of the season.
LT is still our biggest need, but a WR is far more pressing than the other line positions at this point.
I'm still a Minnesotan at heart...
With Percy and Rudolph (and Shanks if he's back)
We can get by with replacement level receivers. Not so LT or CB.
Replacement level a la
Greg Camerillo? I hope not. This team needs a legit outside threat at WR. When your best WR is a converted RB, Harvin, than you know you have problems.
I'll have your mother call you shortly.
Obvious, we need receivers too
But the point is that when you have a few good pass catching options, and you can run the ball, the need is less dire than when you have a left tackle who can’t block anyone or a corner who can’t cover anyone. Those guys are largely on a island.
Also, you can get a legit outside threat in the second or third round.
Youre right VikesPma about needing a top flight reciever but..........
We have to protect Ponder 1st. A QB with solid protection can find average receivers. If your running for your life on half of your plays an elite receiver doesn’t do much good if you can’t get the ball to him. Besides a solid line will help A.P. as well.
by iowaron on Dec 9, 2011 11:40 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree, we proved last week against a defense that had been playing very well that we can put up points
32 points should win you every game, if you have a defense worth even half a darn
Don't forget about FA !
The Vikes will have a chance to address a few of their needs through Free Agency as well as the draft….
True!
If we are drafted according to need then I would take Mo Claiborne over Blackmon, Like I say I would be happy with either one. The fact that it is easier to scoop up a WR in FA than a CB or LT may solve that position for us and make trading down a little easier to get Martin or Reiff, and then go all defense after that CB, DT, S, LB…
deep CB draft...
I’d take neither Claiborne or Blackmon (overrated on Blackmon). LT or nothing.
You know what, I give the kid props if he does go back.
He goes and finishes his education, has some pride for his team, and then still will have a good shot at a high draft pick next season. A VERY VERY hard choice to make since all of the money he could make may disappear if something terrible happens to him. I love when players want to finish their education, though.
Just remember that the average NFL player careers are 2-3 years. Too many players don’t finish their education and are screwed when their careers end prematurely.
I'm still a Minnesotan at heart...
couple things...
1) He’s set for life anyway with his brother.
2) I think the new rookie structure will make us see a lot more of these decisions, just because it’s so much less money to “pass on” than it was.
Because that phys ed degree is so important...
Not that he is doing phys Ed, (that I know of) but honestly here people most people don’t go to college to learn they go to get a job that doesn’t involve stacking boxes or asking people if they’d like fries with their meal.
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
i think it's more about the college experience...
a lot of people go to college for that, beyond any job/learning considerations. and they should; it’s one of the very best times of life.
Piffle I only spent seven years in college and I can honestly tell you
they are 100% correct…
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
Seven years in college Grime. That can only mean three things. One you're a doctor, two you're a lawyer, or three you like to drink a lot : )
By the way, I spent six in university so I’m not saying anything bad about option three!
by CanadianViking on Dec 9, 2011 4:36 PM CST up reply actions
Nobody's said it yet
So I guess I will… He probably doesn’t want to take a pay cut
by Simply_Greatness on Dec 9, 2011 8:48 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
my money is on Barkley going back, too
If they both go back, next year they’ll be bowl eligible since the sanctions against USC have run their course, an probably favorites for a mythical national championship.
I’d trade down for a 2nd #1 or #2, what about Malcom Floyd from the Irish for a wideout, and one of the above mentioned LT’s?
personally, both tackles are liabilities right now on the O-line (loadholt is good in run situations but his pass blocking seems to be regressing), but I think we’re OK at guard, with last years draft picks, moving Charlie Johnson inboard, Joe Berger, Hutch, and Herrera, in that group I’d say we have at least 2 good starters and 2 good backups, and I Berger can also play center, and IMHO could be better than sully….
oops
I meant micheal floyd….wish comments had an edit function.
and off topic, where are Kirk Cousins and B.J. Cunningham from Michigan State projected to go in the draft?
Also, we should probably think about a MLB, E.J.‘s on borrowed time, and I can’t remember enough about Jasper Brinkley as to whether or not he is truly starting material for the long term
The question for Brinkley
Is speed in coverage. I liked his play against the run and his hustle, but I’m not sure he’s fast enough.
Before he got hurt
They said he was really improving on his speed, so hopefully he will be able to step up? unless of course they were just blowing smoke up our collective arses to make us feel better
Screwed ? I'll take 2 or 3 years of NFL money, are you kidding me?
Anyone in the 1st few rounds is an instant millionaire. So even a bust in the 1st couple of rounds has enough money if invested wisely would never have to work another day in their life.
If Barkley goes pro...
Then I think Kalil goes pro as well. It makes absolute no sense to stay when the star QB leaves, unless of course he wants his degree (which I can’t blame him for).
If he stays, I think the Vikings trade down to a QB needy team and we’ll see what happens from there.
by christian220896 on Dec 8, 2011 10:13 PM CST reply actions
TRADE
If kalil is not there, and we can get some good trade action going. i am for the trade. Claiborne is my first gut reaction…i’m cool with taking him. But maybe drop down into the second level of the first and pick up either another first rounder or some 2nd and 3rd rounders.
Any chance we take Barkley?
Would there be universal outrage if Kalil is unavailable and we made this move?
umm, yes...
Barkley is Matt Leinart/Mark Sanchez too… ie overrated.
He’s the 4th best QB in this draft IMO.
I like Barkley a lot more than Leinart and Sanchez...
don’t be comparing just because they went to the same school. Totally different prospect. But we won’t take him.
"Like I said, I don’t think anybody on this team knows what schism is, let alone could use it in a sentence. I thought it was an STD when I first heard it. And I was like whoa, we preach abstinence around these parts." - Jared Allen
i'm not comparing them for that reason...
but I thought both of those guys were highly overrated coming out (I actually though Leinart would be out of the league by now) and I think the same of Barkley now. USC qb’s generally look better (and the same is true for Barkley) because they are surrounded by incredible skill talent and USC always has a DOMINANT OL. They have ALL DAY to throw. Such is the case with Barkley. I think he will be an “ok” pro, but not great. Worse than Ponder/Dalton. RG3 is a wildcard, but I’d take him before Barkley in a second. He’s got potential to be a Randall Cunningham kind of player.
YES
I’m already furious with you for even suggesting it!! well maybe not furious but i see no reason whatsoever to even consider it. Any player is a crap shoot…i wasn’t thrilled about ponder mostly because i thought he could have been taken in the 2nd…but i’m happy now and would love to build around him. therefore LT. i think kalil is the best person at that position for that draft spot. if he is not there…claiborne or a trade down for more picks.
Ha!
Sounds like there would be torches and pitchforks in the streets! A friend of mine suggested this and I defended Ponder; I just couldn’t see the Vikings doing this. But, stranger things have happened and I just wanted to see if we were all on the same page, or if there was indeed some support for taking Barkley.
Trade if he declares.
I see a few mocks where we can end up with 3, maybe even 4 picks in the first 2 rounds by trading that. Both our line and our secondary don’t need one big player, we need a unit. Blackmon is good but I don’t think he’s “continue to ignore OL and top tier secondary talent” good.
I think our WR’s are serviceable enough especially if we can fix up the O-line and give Ponder more time.
*doesn't declare for the draft I mean.
(really wish there was an edit function for this site… I always screw up something in posts and edit them after the fact)
agreed...
Blackmon is no Calvin Johnson….or even AJ Green.
Also, this is a deep secondary draft, so while Claiborne is great, we’ll still get a good CB at the top of the 2nd rd, or two of them if we are able to work a trade down for a late 1st/early 2nd. It’s all about OL!
Just a tid bit
Favre would have gone to the Bears, but they wouldn’t pay him enough. It’s funny he still thinks he is worth it.
I'll have your mother call you shortly.
Read this:
When news broke on Monday that a source close to Favre said he would be "receptive to hearing from the Bears," I laughed. I can see Brett and agent Bus Cook – both of them much smarter than their country folk image portrays – smiling at the other and saying, "Wanna start a little sh*tstorm?" The lure of Favre returning with the Packers’ rival Bears for the stretch run would be too great for fans and the media to ignore.
From: http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Selling-Green-and-Gold.html
ya beat me to it.
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
You shouldn't waste your sense of humor on these easy pickings.
That is why Abba stayed away from this one!
Thanks, I think...
Sometimes you need to go after the low hanging fruit…
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
Can you draft a defensive coordinator in the first round?
I would like to trade pick and fill secondary and oline holes. WR is the sexy pick, but stupid with so many bigger holes
by IL PurpleRain on Dec 9, 2011 1:36 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Maybe he doesn't want to play for the Vikings. :/
Wouldn’t that be a sad situation? If we couldn’t get Kalil, I would vote that we trade out and get as many picks as we could. But only if a stud wide receiver or o-lineman or any secondary would still be there for our first pick.
I really liked the rhyming in the poll answers, by the way. I just about voted for “our o-line makes folks cackle, so we still need to go tackle” simply because I found it hilarious that you used the word cackle whilst talking about our o-line. But then I cried.
Correction:
I just went back up and voted for that one. Not because I think we should draft a tackle other than Kalil if he goes back to school, but for the reasons I mentioned above.
With the holes we have
I want us to trade down to like maybe 12-20 and possibly take Michael Floyd in the first. Then with the other picks that we got we fill in a lot of spots. We need to hoard picks.
by PurplePrideforLife! on Dec 9, 2011 6:10 AM CST reply actions
If we're down there and Martin and Reif are gone I would rather pick up Minnifield.
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
The reason he is staying in school?
“. . .if Kalil declares for the draft, he’s a top three selection and an instant millionaire, but I’m not Matt Kalil, so I don’t know what else he’s taking into consideration.”
Gee, maybe because he knows the Vikings have the 2nd pick.
well
likely anyone that gets you at #2 or #3 had a lousy season.
At least this ‘lousy’ team has- Adrian Peterson, Percy Harvin, an impressive, developing QB in Ponder, Jared Allen and a rebuilding Dline with good young talent, and Chris EmEffin’ Kluwe! We have some holes to fill, but I still don’t believe we are nearly as bad as our record this year.
Plus, Kalil would have a hell of a mentor his rookie year with Hutch.
by Odin'sDrunkenSon on Dec 9, 2011 8:06 AM CST up reply actions
doh!
Forgot to mention our newest offensive weapon this year- Kyle Rudolph. Kid has a massive future at his position if he stays healthy!
by Odin'sDrunkenSon on Dec 9, 2011 8:07 AM CST up reply actions
He ain't going back to school.
Who will break the news to Charlie Johnson?
I'll have your mother call you shortly.
If Kalil is already selected or doesn't declare...
We should do our best to trade down a few spots and select Blackmon or Claiborne. Then we can use those later picks in the 2nd and 3rd to get an infusion of youth into our O-line.
Crap
I always thought you were Matt Kalil.
But the answer to your question is trade down for more picks.
If the Colts think Peyton is good to go
For the next few(4-5) years, than why wouldn’t they trade down?
I'll have your mother call you shortly.
He had vertebra in his neck fused
I don’t think he’ll be around that long, if he ever plays again. I think they pick Luck and have the luxury of patience if Manning can play a few more years.
But as you imply, if they trade down that would make it harder for us to do the same.
With as many QBs projected to go high the Vikes
Could still get some good value for the #2, speaking of #2 that coffee is hitting home, lol.
I'll have your mother call you shortly.
From: http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/12/07/lombardi-ways-to-trade-peyton-manning-exist/?module=HP11_headline_stack
It’s not a conversation anyone would have anticipated eight months ago, but there’s no use denying it’s out there now.
The Peyton Manning-less Colts’ 0-12 record and their anticipated use of a first-round draft pick on a quarterback has brought us to this: How difficult would it be for the team to trade the four-time NFL MVP?
There are many "ifs" involved when asking that question: if Manning can return from three neck surgeries in the last 18 months, if he wants to continue to play and if the Colts decide they want to go a different direction at quarterback……..
Gotta go Claiborne or
Move down in the draft.
What if the Colts don’t take Luck and the Vikes are sitting at #2? That is where most would trade down, but its Andrew frigin’ Luck!
I like Ponder but at this point I don’t love him. If we could get Luck and a 2nd rounder for Ponder I would do it. Not likely, I know, just wanted to throw it out there.
I'll have your mother call you shortly.
So you'd be happy
Turning last year’s #12 pick into a second rounder and an unknown at QB?
Seems like a waste of a high pick to me, and the kind of loss of value that sinks franchises or years (see Detroit nd the first round wide receiver).
I wouldn't call Luck an unknown
Nor would I say I’m sold on Ponder being the future.
Luck is as sure a thing at QB coming out of the draft in the past ten years. I would take the risk to get the next Peyton Manning!
I'll have your mother call you shortly.
I would
He’s not taken a snap in the NFL. Plenty of prior sure things haven’t panned out. Luck an unknown until he’s played.
Ponder still a work in progress, but he’s show enough that we shouldn’t put ourselves in a bigger hole by drafting a superfluous QB and ignoring our other needs.
See Detroit
Taking a risk on Stafford and it starting to pay off.
I'll have your mother call you shortly.
We did that already
With Ponder.
The Detroit comparison I was making was to using consecutive first round picks on the the same position.
there is less than a 0% chance...
that the Colts pass on Luck. NO WAY they pass on Luck. NONE.
We should trade down
But our first lik should ideally still be a tackle. You can get playable corners and receivers in the second and third rounds. That’s not generally true, at least not right away, of left tackles.
Guys like Jake Long are worth a top 3 pick
We need that LT. Only trade down if he isn’t there. The talent level for LTs drops off huge after the first 12 picks.
I'll have your mother call you shortly.
Personally, I'd go for O-Line 1st, & D-Backs 2nd in the "need" catagory.
Although I am open to trading away several of our corrupt polichickens for a stadium with tailgating areas.
I would just like to say something
and i didn’t even think about it tell late in the day. But how immensely satisfying is it not to be talking about a QB this year in the draft? I mean we’re batting around LT’s, WR’s and pretty much every other position on the board but one position that we’ve been crippled at for so long has finally hopped its crippled butt off our plate. Here’s to not talking about QB drafting for another ten years!
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
It's definitely a relief!
Now they just need to keep him on his feet, and get him a WR to throw to.
Too bad we’re still talking about the D-secondary, and too bad it’s gotten way worse since we first started talking about it :)
I'm not surprised at all if Kalil returns to USC
1) This isn’t like Luck going back last season. Kalil will be the top OT on the board next season as well.
2) From a career accomplishment standpoint, the NCAA took away much of what he & Barkley could do with USC through the sanctions. Those go away after this season. Meaning the BCS and Rose Bowl are back on the table, with a loaded team to make a run at them.
3) Kalil has been saying ALL season he and his QB are a package deal. Whatever decision they arrive at will be mutual. These aren’t new rumors. People just assumed that meant they were both ‘for certain’ to go to the NFL. But it’s not like they’re suffering going to school at USC.
I agree there are obviously 'perks' to staying at USC
One more year of that life has got to be hard to pass up.
Wolf. Wolfgang Wolf
how is it not like Luck?
it’s exactly like Luck. Luck would have been the top QB in last year’s draft as well.
By the way
I didn’t know that the all-time leading Vikings tackler, Scott Studwell, is the Vikings Director of College Scouting, and he does all the prep for the draft.
I don’t know why, but this makes me feel better.
by liveforadrenaline on Dec 9, 2011 5:16 PM CST reply actions
Ok so here is the question
We are stuck at #2, no trading partners, No Kalil in the draft, so who do we take at #2 overall? Do we reach for Martin/Reiff? Is Blackmon or Claiborne worthy of that pick? Who do you think we should take?
for me...
if we’re absolutely stuck I probably bite the bullet and take Martin. I don’t think that will be the case, but that’d be my choice.
We NEED an upgrade at LT. And this is a deep CB draft so we’d still be in line to get a good prospect at #35 (if we’re #2, we’d be #3 in the 2nd rd). I’m not high on Blackmon, so I’d avoid him as well, personally.
I think that may change by the time the draft rolls around
It seems like RGIII may have a lot of market value for trade bait. If Kalils there, and I think he will be, you probably gotta take him. But if not and RGIII is I think I’d take RGIII.
Wolf. Wolfgang Wolf
Claiborne is a shut down corner that has a knack for big plays
Whether its stripping the ball, or jumping a route, he’d be night and day to what we currently have. He’s also got that fire in him that a certain Winfield has.
I’d be happy with him, but I’d find myself really dissapointed we didn’t get the top O-line prospect in the draft. Soooo OLINE
right, Claiborne is like Patrick Peterson...
and I still think Peterson was the best player in last year’s draft; I would have taken him #1. But we NEED to fix the OL.
Take Jonathan Martin and do not hesitate
He may be a better prospect anyway. He is a better run blocker for sure. And this is coming from a lifetime USC fan born and raised in the city people love to hate. It is all good though.
Martin is the real deal and all this talk about him slipping down the boards and what not is garbage. He will instantly improve the line and by year two should be playing very very well.
The Vikings just gave PA an incredible amount of money and IF they are smart (and that is a big IF) they would try to get the most out of him in return.
I would much rather see him run for 2000 yards than see Ponder throw for 3,000 yards or more. I think his running will help Ponder’s development immensely.
And I am not a fan of the Ponder pick but can support him now. No lying by me. I wanted Nate Solder. But Ponder has won me over a little and now that they have him they need to PROTECT him first and foremost.
He is already injured which is something that plagued him in college and was a fear I had.
Any talk of drafting other positions is NONSENSE. There will be a decent CB in round two. A much better prospect than a OT you can get in round 2.
I would be OK with Martin and Stephon Gilmore in the first two rounds. If they take Claiborne then what tackle is as good as Martin in the second round?
The same conversation last year took place about the linemen and what happened/ * went in the first round and then it was slim pickings.
I guess it comes down to what kind of football you like. Some people feel it is imperative to get a TOP WR for Ponder to let him THROW the ball. Strange at best.
Why give AP all that money if you want Ponder to be the focal point of the offense? Makes no freaking sense at all.
Get an offensive line and you may be able to do both. Do not WAIT on a left tackle because they will be gone by round 2.
and OL solves both running game and passing game...
and helps protect/enhance your 3 biggest assets in AD/Ponder/Harvin. No-brainer, I agree. I like Martin a lot; I like Kalil better of course, but Martin is not a bad consolation prize. I just think we can get him in a tradedown if Kalil doesn’t declare.
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