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I'm Just Spitballing Here (on Stadiums)



So, I realize that I'm some sort of traitor/heretic/antichrist or something around here for not being immediately enthralled with the sheer superior awesomeness of the Arden Hills stadium site (woo hoo! suburbs!!). But as no one in a position of any authority is doing much to convince fans that a downtown site could be both quite appealing from a fan perspective and quite lucrative from a team perspective, I thought I would sketch out what I see when I look at the possibilities for a combined dome/Strib/armory stadium site.

As will quickly become apparently, I'm not architect, and I haven't got any graphic arts skills, but hopefully I can do enough to give you an idea and then you can all proceed to cursing me for questioning Arden Hills.

That said here's my crude rendering of what could be:

Options_bmp_medium

Outlined in blue is the footprint of a new stadium on the Strib parcel of land. To the naked eye, it looks bigger than the footprint of the dome, not including the dome's parking area, and about comparable to the total dome site overall (I think it's actually 25 acres compared to 20). Not being an architect, I don't know if that's enough space for a modern stadium with wide corridors and nice concession spaces AND more seating, but my guess would be that it can be done with a combination of a sub-ground-level field and steeper seating areas. That's one definite question mark.

But one advantage is that area across the street to the south, where the Minneapolis Armory (outlined in green) sits largely unused (or actually just used for indoor parking). The building has a lot of history and some interesting architecture that could be incorporated into the new building across the street. It could also be used as a arrival point and fan entertainment complex, kind of like they try to do with plaza in front of the dome today but better. There could be concessions, entertainment and the Vikings HOF (maybe even a Minneapolis sports history "museum" as the Lakers played here back in the day).

The whole thing could be connected directly to the stadium by a broad skyway over 5th Street (outline in red) and therefore act as a major entrance hall for the stadium too. The light rail already runs down 5th, so below the skyway you could have a light rail station that's covered and could feature more platform space than is currently available at the dome (or target center & field). The Armory is also adjacent to a municipal parking ramp to the west that's on the skyway system, so you just need one more (also in red) to connect the whole thing into downtown, including lots of parking, restaurants, bars, and entertainment. And the Hennepin County Public Safety Facility (i.e., jail), which would make for a very short and convenient game-day commute for the Chris Cooks of the world (I kid!).

The other areas highlighted in green are the existing light rail stop and plaza and a portion of the Strib space that is likely outside the usable stadium footprint. These could be used as additional outdoor fan experience spaces or otherwise as Wilf sees fit.

As for tailgating, take a look at this:

Armory_bmp_medium

That's the view looking north from 6th Street at the armory, and that's a medium sized surface parking lot. This is the most speculative part of my "plan," as I don't know who owns this lot or the ones on either side of it (all of which are highlighted in red on the map above), but this look like prime potential tailgating and pregame partying space to me. It may not be enough capacity for everyone who wants to tailgate, but it can serve some of them AND be tied into the fan entertainment space inside the Armory (that means bathrooms, people). I also really like the image in my head of a beautiful new stadium looming behind and tying in with the Armory's architectural style.

All of this can be done while the Vikings continue to play in the Metrodome and therefore don't lose one red cent of revenue like they would building on top of the existing site.

Which brings us to the last opportunity, which is the 20 acres or so that is left after you tear down the dome. I think what happens to it can largely be left to Wilf's preference, but at least one option that should be popular with readers of this site is as a place for parking and tailgating that could be linked directly to 35W. For efficiency sake, I would personally want to think about whether that's at least a 2-3 story structure with tailgating and maybe some park space on top, but that's thinking about it from a fan perspective.

From a business perspective, Wilf might prefer to build something else more profitable there. A hotel and entertainment complex. Mixed used residential and retail. I'm sure he can come up with lots of money making ideas.

So, to summarize, I think this sketch offers (1) a much improved fan experience, (2) better ties to existing parking and transit infrastructure and downtown entertainment, (3) at least some prime tailgating, with the option of more at Wilf's discretion, (3) the possibility of direct freeway access, and (4) the opportunity for some profitable real estate development.

So there it is. Now you can all tell me why Arden HIlls is vastly superior.

EDIT: I guess I should have asked that if you're going to vote that you don't like it, it would be great if you could give me a few words explaining why in the comments.

Poll
How much do you hate it?
More than can be expressed in words
4 votes
A whole lot but we'll leave the pitchforks and torches at home
1 votes
It's okay but it doesn't excite me
9 votes
I like it, but not as much as Arden Hills
14 votes
I like it and think it could work
3 votes
Fire. The wheel. Beer. Salted and cured meats. After those, this is the best idea ever
4 votes

35 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.

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A+ for effort.

A for putting something out there.

A- for drawing the lines sort of straight.

INCOMPLETE for the actual plan – mostly because I don’t have a point of view, other than the fact that I think “steeper seating” would be a very bad idea.

My seats at the Metrodome were nose bleed section next to one of the crumbling columns of concrete and metal way up near the top. The stairs and seating were already plenty steep to my way of thinking. This past summer I sat up high at the Kauffman Stadium near the top of the stadium. The seating there is even steeper… to the point that I started getting nervous someone might fall and never stop rolling. The seats were so steep that it actually took away from my enjoyment of the game. It was kind of scary actually. I mentioned it to my father in law after the game, and he had the same reaction. Way too steep. I think he also mentioned a stadium in Louisville (I think I got that city right) that was built on the edge of the river and had seating that was so steep people refused to sit up high and simply left the stadium. Apparently that stadium was torn down not long after being built. Be careful about going steeper on the seating.

"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin

by kcskol on Dec 9, 2011 12:12 PM CST reply actions  

Fair enough

But obviously I can’t answer that.

But in theory, I prefer steeper over less steep because it mean being closer (laterally) to the action rather than farther back. But there definitely is such a thing as too steep.

by amiller92 on Dec 9, 2011 1:12 PM CST up reply actions  

What I'm afraid of.
prefer steeper over less steep because it mean being closer (laterally) to the action

Get over zealous in your cheering on you could tumble right down onto the field. “It means being closer (literally) to the action.”

I honestly can’t believe Kauffman’s “up high” seating plan could have passed consumer safety rules in this day and age. I felt like I had to keep an eye on the kids at all times to ensure they did fall forward and land on top of the head of the person seated in front of us.

"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin

by kcskol on Dec 9, 2011 2:26 PM CST up reply actions  

This is complete garbage

not only are you a traitor/heretic/antichrist, you are a borderline communist : )

Seriously though, this isn’t all that bad, it just doesn’t excite me as much as the possibilites we have over in Arden Hills. I agree with what kcskol said about the higher grade steps. While it increases the acoustics of the stadium (be it open or closed) and feels more dangerous, it’s just a pain in the ass to climb.

If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).

by Alittlemore_cowbell on Dec 9, 2011 1:12 PM CST reply actions  

It may be me, because I have a bass ackwards way of thinking

But I would rather they get rid of the whole top level or make it like the xcel where it hangs more over the lower level. They way you would be closer. Otherwise, I think if you have to struggle to see what is going on, you might as well watch from home.

by viking_#28 on Dec 9, 2011 3:10 PM CST reply actions  

I think you have a overall decent plan

and I think it would have been a great starting point; before arden hills came around.. As said a million time before, the vikes did what they were told to do, local partner, site,, blah blah blah… Minneapolis cannot come close when it comes to fan experience, there just simply isnt the room… arden hills could be a vikings mecca… plenty of room for EVERYONE to tail gate.. vikings HOF,… ect… Minneapolis basically slammed the door in wilfs face years ago, and now that he has a willing partner to do business with, minneapolis now wants to get back into the ring… when in reality what minneapolis is doing is making this far more complicated.. They had their chance to get this done, they chose to pass… now it is time for minneapolis to step aside, and let progress happen on this project, so we, as well as future generations can enjoy the purple….

by Toes110 on Dec 9, 2011 5:26 PM CST reply actions  

Except

there doesn’t seem to be any progress on AH. They don’t seem to have a viable funding source.

And funding is the only part of a plan that is essential to flesh out at this stage. It’s all the legislature has to pass.

I just don’t see Minnepolis working on alternatives as bad. If AH can’t happen, it’s better to have another option that isn’t leaving. If Minneapolis drops out and AH fails, then what?

by amiller92 on Dec 10, 2011 10:48 AM CST up reply actions  

This isn't a bad plan but I think the main problem with the Minneapolis sites is that any plans in Minny are in their infancy and have a lot of holes and question marks whereas Arden Hills is fully developed(minus financing).

If Minneapolis had gone through the process of evaluating sites and coming up with a detailed plan with the Vikings over the last few years like Arden Hills did than they probably could have come up with a plan that was as good or at least comparable to the Arden Hills plan. The problem is that Minny’s extent of planning to this point is a couple of artist’s renditions of a retro-dome. By the time Minneapolis cobbles together a comprehensive stadium plan that’s as fleshed out as Arden Hills the Vikings will be long gone. Basically, I don’t think the sites are a problem, I think the problem is that they haven’t worked with the Vikings to come up with a workable plan for years, and it’s a little too late to be crashing the party now.

by CanadianViking on Dec 9, 2011 7:18 PM CST reply actions  

That's really it

Don’t see it as crashing. Right now, AH doesn’t have the funding while Ryback is trying to find something that doesn’t require “raising” taxes so it can pass.

by amiller92 on Dec 10, 2011 10:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Well, maybe not crashing the party but it's kinda like they showed up late and didn't bring their own beer : )

I just hope they stay somewhere in Minnesota but right now Arden Hills looks like the only plan that hasn’t been rushed and haphazardly constructed. Honestly, your two posts have more thought and planning in them than anything Minneapolis has produced so far. Oh, that last sentence was both a compliment to you and an insult towards your government : )

by CanadianViking on Dec 10, 2011 12:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks

And now I’m picturing I’m picturing Ryback as McLovin from Super Bad, desperately trying to score some booze before going to the party but failing.

by amiller92 on Dec 10, 2011 3:38 PM CST up reply actions  

I've been a supporter of the Arden Hills plan

from the day it was announced, and I think it’s a huge load of BS that Minneapolis is so late to the game once Wilf called their bluff.

All that said, I will be happy for any plan that keeps the Vikings in Minnesota—be it Arden Hills, Minneapolis, or Duluth.

Appreciate the effort on this post.

"Go hard. I mean, like relentless. I want a bunch of coaches that coach like their hair’s on fire, and I want a football team that goes for four to six seconds (per play) with relentless effort." OSU Coach Urban Meyer.

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by Ted Glover on Dec 10, 2011 11:29 AM CST reply actions  

Im with Ted

on this… if it keeps them in MN and Minneapolis is the only option that so be it.. other than that, how minneapolis is just now trying to jump back into the ring, after telling wilf to go fist himself, is pretty much total BS… They wanted nothing to do with the vikes until wilf had a real shot to get it done somewhere else… I think the “Fan experience” possibility that rybek is talking about is a joke, and more or less just a band aid to try to match what AH would instantly provide/…..

by Toes110 on Dec 10, 2011 1:27 PM CST reply actions  

You can't call a bluff...

…. if you’re also bluffing. Well, you could, but…

by Vrooman on Dec 10, 2011 6:16 PM CST reply actions  

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