Phil Loadholt Wasn't 100% Last Year, Either
by Christopher Gates on Feb 12, 2011 1:01 PM CST
in Minnesota Vikings
Email
PrintWell, technically he was, I guess. . .but if you're looking for a reason for the drop-off that the big right tackle had from his rookie season in 2009 to his disappointing 2010 campaign, Chip Scoggins has gotten what could be the reason from the man himself at the Arctic Blast snowmobile event.
Scoggins, in a series of tweets, tells us that Loadholt tore the labrum in his right shoulder during his rookie season against the Arizona Cardinals. . .the same game where E.J. Henderson got carted off of the field. He didn't have surgery on the shoulder until February, after last season had concluded, and apparently wasn't able to lift any significant weights until just before training camp started.
I was one of the many folks that was high on Phil Loadholt after his rookie season in 2009. The guy is a humongous human being, and had demonstrated all of the skills needed to be an outstanding right tackle in the NFL. The fact that he had fallen so far off the map in 2010 was disheartening. . .but if he wasn't fully prepared or fully able to prepare for the season, then that changes things.
In light of this. . .I don't think an offensive lineman needs to be as high on the list of needs this year as we may have previously thought, particularly when it comes to the draft. If Loadholt is finally able to do a full off-season worth of preparation work to get ready for the 2011 season, I don't have a problem with rolling into the season with him and Bryant McKinnie manning the tackle spots again. I think that Phil Loadholt is much closer to the player that we saw in 2009 than the player we saw in 2010.
23 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I agree about Loadholt
And I find it interesting when he gets skewered for his performance when he was a starter from day 1 and last year was his only season. Yet Rice was allowed to “grow” into his position and really turned the corner in his 3rd year. Same could be said for Griffen. Asher Allen and Letroy Guion are another couple of players that fans seem to have more patience.
Why does the offensive tackle have to be great coming right out of the gate?
I think Loadholt will be just fine and has a pretty good chance of getting better considering his age and experience.
McKinnie on the other hand is the opposite. His age is what is really the concern. Now he wants to lose 25 pounds. I hope he does but I doubt he gets any better. Players rarely do when they get in their 30s. We can only hope he can perform at last years level going forward. Not really a promising scenario IMHO.
These are the reasons why I want a young tackle to either replace McKinnie now or be ready to step in if he gets hurt or take over next year. Either way they need a viable backup. Right now that is Patrick Brown.
The ideal scenario IMO is to draft a tackle in round 1 and then trade McKinnie for a pick.
He still has value so they MAY be able to get a 3rd round pick. That could be useful to trade back into the first round or up in the second round for a QB perhaps.
The Vikings are now in position to lose Edwards for nothing in return. This was one of my main concerns last year prior to free agency and the draft and one of the main reasons why I wanted to trade him for a pick last year. That and the fact that the Vikings have no intention of paying him what he is worth.
This is a bad decision IMHO. A team like New England tries to get a return on their investment before they wind up with nothing at all. I believe it is better to trade a player a year early than a year late.
But heh, I could be all wrong. Perhaps the Vikings will squeeze a couple of more years out of McKinnie and look to replace him in a couple of years?
I am OK with that just not really hopeful that the results will be better.
McKinnie...
is to me the epitomy of the player I DON’T want- lazy. Talent is worthless if you don’t apply it.
That said, I do like your original scenario- get a replacement now, and develop him for a year or two while keeping McKinnie the starter. A.) I’m willing to give him a chance, to see if he’s serious about this ‘getting into shape, being a better player’ stuff. B.) LT is a key, key, key position on O-line, and as many here know by now, I consider O-line the most important area on a succesful football team. If we believe in developing QBs, I think LTs (and centers too, while we’re at it) should always be development projects, so to speak, not day one rookie starters.
Nothing's tougher than being a diehard Vikings fan.
I cannot argue with developing a left tackle but in what round would you choose one?
Many teams have plugged in rookie tackles and lived with the results.
I could live with it too. I would expect some troubles but would be willing to be patient.
If you spend a first round pick then you would expect that they could come in and start.
Either way is fine by me.
But I really want to get an extra pick for McKinnie as he still has some value.
Just curious but why
do you keep saying the Vikings get nothing for a FA leaving when you know tht they can get a comp pick for a good FA?
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Feb 12, 2011 11:02 PM CST up reply actions
It is possible for a compensatory pick to be awarded
But that is also assuming that the Vikings will not sign any free agents.
And with 21 UFAs on the roster now, they need to sign some bodies from somewhere since they only have 7 draft picks.
Will they sign as many as they lose? Who knows?
Will they try and sign a couple or more of the top free agents? We hope.
So when they lose Edwards, then he will get signed by another team for a nice sized contract. And if the Vikings do not sign a free agent close to his contract then they MAY get a compensatory pick in 2012. But the formula does not really work off of how much you signed a player for vs how much your player signed elsewhere. It is a convoluted formula that is difficult to pin down.
Regardless, the mentality of hoping to get a compensatory pick vs trading a guy and getting a pick higher than the end of the 3rd round (which is where the comp picks start) is troubling to say the least. Not by you but by the front office.
It is better to trade a player a year early than a year late.
And I was saying all last year prior to free agency and the draft to go ahead and trade Ray Edwards because of this very scenario. I liked him but thought that they would not pay him what he was worth or wanted. That is why I thought they should get a pick in return for their investment.
Now we have to wait and hope that they MAY get something in 2012. Great.
I seriously doubt the Vikings will get a high compensatory pick in 2012 especially since they will most likely be active themselves in free agency. They have no choice.
Probably right but still its not "nothing".
This is the very reason many teams put a minimum 3rd round pick on trading players. Something has to balance.
But i’m still not positive the Vikes won’t resign Ray. I’m still not sure that having Ray this year wouldn’t have been great move , had all other parts of the team been as sucsessful as we had hoped.
No team “trades” all of its players one year before their contract is up. No team. Just look at New England and Mankins. Look at Vincent over at San Diego. Its simply folly to not keep great players on your team producing as long as you can. Unless your completely rebuilding. Like the Panthers did.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Feb 13, 2011 6:34 AM CST up reply actions
The Vikings will be lucky to get a compensatory pick for Edwards
Mankins and Jackson may end up getting the franchise tag. Those teams are serious about keeping those players.
Why would you believe that the Vikings will NOT resign Ray? If they had wanted to do that then why didn’t they do it already. Makes no sense and pisses off the player. All to save a few million which they gladly gave to Favre on top of the pretty good 13 mil he was set to get.
And you are assuming that Ray will want to come back. Why should he all things being equal? The Vikings dogged him last year and underpaid him by at least 2.5 mil. He should have made at least half of what the franchise tag amount is for DEs.
If a team like Atlanta or Tampa or New Orleans or Jacksonville offer him a similar contract then why wouldn’t he want to go to those cities? The Vikings are semi-rebuilding and the prospects of making the playoffs next year do not look bright.
If I am Edwards I am taking the other offers.
But we will just have to disagree because I do not see the logic in the front office’s thinking. We have been over this last year and it is not worth going over again.
I do not support every decision the front office makes. I think some are wrong and short sighted. The “ALL IN” strategy failed.
Now they are going to lose a 26 year old LDE who is probably entering his prime.
And any compensatory pick will be less than what they could have received last year for him.
Was Edwards the only guy who got screwed last year ?
I’m asking if it was only the Vikings who dogged their players last year, or did all teams do that ?
If not…I’m sure Rice, Edwards and Greenway were all pretty pissed off to see the FO throwing $money at Favre like it was nothing….That could come back to haunt the FO.
He definitelty was NOT the only player to not get a new deal
But to me it does not matter because I am only interested in Vikings.
All I know is that he will be an UFA (most likely) when the next CBA is done.
And then he can talk to any team he wants and go anywhere he wants.
I predict he will go elsewhere and that the Vikings will have to wait until 2012 to see if they will get anything in return for losing Edwards.
And I think they could have gotten at least a 2nd round pick last year.
Maybe I am wrong? Maybe other teams do not think he is that good?
We will see.
We do disagree on the philosophy of trading valuable players
but that isn’t my point. Rick Spielman has said that the CBA is the thing standing in the way of re-signing players. I think that is correct. It won’t stand in the way of signing “franchise” players that teams are willing to grant 30 Million in guaranteed money. They can simply pay that now and have gotten around the rule. But for players like Ray, Greenway, Rice, those are pretty big numbers. I can certainly believe why management has had to go slow in its dealings.
I’m sure you disagree. You seem to know exactly what other teams will trade or pay for a Viking, know exactly what the FO should pay our players, know exactly what the players will take and know exactly how each player feels about the Vikings. Unfortunately I’m not that astute and can’t make those same conclusions.
I do respect your research and your trade scenarios. I simply do not believe they are anywhere near correct. But as you have said. Most Viking fans would hate you as their GM.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Feb 14, 2011 8:06 AM CST up reply actions
Hmmm...
The lack of lifting weights certainly hindered his strength, but most of the problem was allowing guys to come off the edge and blow past him. I felt the problem was more Phil trying to compensate for a weak inner line, causing him to miss more guys going outside.
But the combination of the two would certainly explain a lot.
Loadholdt is still young.
he’s going into his 3rd year. it takes lineman time to learn and adjust. if the vikes had a 3rd down back that could pick up the blitz, loadholdt wouldn’t have looked as bad as he did. I have a bigger problem with mckinnie. he is a veteran who is well paid. it’s inexcusable at the number of rookies that blew past mckinnie for a clear shot at the qb.
I think we need a center
Like it or not, McKinnie is a Pro Bowler. With him, Loadholt and Hutchinson, we should be ok for another year or two if we have a new center.
We need Birk back :)
I agree with you on needing a center.
I think both our tackles looked bad last year due to the interior line play. I believe we had four different players start at center last year, three different players start at right guard, and two players start at left guard. There was a lot of inconsistency in the line play and I really thought that the center position was the weakest followed by the right guard position. In my opinion Hutch, Loadholt, Mckinnie, and Degeare can be pretty good as our starters if we can get a good center that doesn’t require help and they can stay healthy. I’d like to see one interior lineman drafted high and possibly a tackle as well so that the line is rejuvenated with talent and depth to insure against injuries. I also think Herrera should be cut as he’s been mediocre at best when healthy and has had some serious injuries the last couple of years.
by CanadianViking on Feb 12, 2011 3:04 PM CST up reply actions
Then this is a case for falling back and picking up a 3rd rounder
Pouncy is the guy who could hammer it at one of two spots. Center or rt guard. Both areas we could use help in. Be the smarter choice. If sully does better with 2 good guard (Hutch and Pouncy) and Loadholt steps it up a notch we then see which of the top 4 OT’s fall to our pick in the 2nd round.
QB is vital but I think Pouncy and one of the top OT (to replace Mckinny in a year or tow) is a good start.
I am not sold on any of the top QB prospects. I think what we might get in a Dalton or Ponder is as good as bet as any. Gabby would be the guy for the Vikings but will be long gone so lets get our line stablized for the long haul.
When FA time comes get the safety from Oakland (never could remember or say his name)
We need to focus on securing the big 4 for the long haul -harvin, AD, Rice and Greenway.
I feel if we reach on a QB in the draft we have not fille an immediate need. That is why I would gamble on Dalton. FA class might give us the right guy too
Bottom line is I support the O-line. It is NOT going to last long Kinny will Hutch will be old and 2 good linemen now would shore things up and provide some help now.
Pouncy is looking to be the guy I would target
AKA : Revenge4Webb
by CitrusFLViking on Feb 12, 2011 8:12 PM CST up reply actions
I think we're on the same page Citrus.
I’m not really in love with the top four QB prospects either. The only guy I really like is Mallet but his alleged off-field issues are pretty scary and may take him off the Vikings board. I’d be pretty happy with a trade down that netted us Pouncey and a 3rd rounder. If that happened I’d like to see our 2nd rounder used on the BPA with S, OT, OLB, CB, and DE being the positions focused on in that order. In the 3rd round I’m pretty intrigued with Colin Kaepernick at QB as he has good height, speed, a very strong arm, and I recently read that he already has a Wonderlic test score of 38. The negatives with him are that his delivery needs work and like most of the QBs in this class he’s fairly raw. I’d also be quite happy to go with a vet to compete with Webb if we got Pouncey and filled some needs with our 2nd and 3rd picks in this scenario.
by CanadianViking on Feb 12, 2011 8:34 PM CST up reply actions
Combine will set our course
I’ve read a few different scouting reports that suggest not to mistake Pouncey for his brother. He isn’t ranked as high at the center position. I do like the fact that he can play both center and guard. That kind of versatility is what kept Mr. Cook on the roster the last few years.
I think he might be around in the second round. This seems to be a defensive rich draft so we could trade #12 pick to slide back into the late teens or early 20’s, get a tackle to develope and get a 3rd round pick. With our second round pick we could look at Pouncey if still there or Mallet who may slide to the second round but that will depend on these rumored off field issues.
The way the CBA talks have gone to this point it’s unlikely we’ll be making trades for anything more than draft pick swaps. Mr. Spielman sounded quite determine to get a 3rd pick recently on KFAN so unless some QB knocks the socks off the FO, or things in the 11 positions ahead of us go ass backwards and leave us the pick of the QB’s, trading back seems like the route the Vikes are headed.
Bears vs. Vikings Tickets - $150
Beer and food for 24 tailgate bus trip - More than $150
Watching Jared Allen destroy Jay Cutler LIVE - Priceless!!!!
SKOL Vikings!!!!
I still think the OL should be priority #1.
It won’t matter who our QB is if we still have the same offensive line next year. Going away from a zone blocking scheme could be enough though.
by PurplePeopleEaters on Feb 12, 2011 6:00 PM CST reply actions
Tired of seeing McKinnie and Loadholt beaten by speed rushers
But the mock drafts I’ve seen don’t show a wealth of OTs worthy of a #12 pick and the top tackles didn’t look too great at the Senior Bowl. Hopefully the new offensive line coach will help – look at the job Mike Tice did in Chicago, whose line was atrocious at the start of the year and pretty fair at the end.
Wisniewski (SP) from Penn State might be available to us in the second. I only seen a couple Penn State games but in both he was a stud.
What’s with Sullivan and the shotgun snaps over the QBs head, fer crissakes? Think he had three of them this year, at least.
I would like it
If Phil came out better than 2009 and showed some improvement from his rookie season. The Vikings have to go after a guard in the first 3 rounds of this years draft. If Sully isn’t looking healthy take a C as well. The Vikes biggest drop off from last season was the O-line. They were terrible and I know Sidney was out, but Brett had no time this year.
Worse SB matchup ever!
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Daily Norseman
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Former high-school star Brian Banks does serious time on trumped-up charge, now hopes for an NFL shot
- Former ‘idiot kicker’ Mike Vanderjagt in trouble after accosting junior-high heckler
- Adrian Peterson blows teammates away in footraces; appears to be on the mend
- UPDATE: Charlie Sheen didn’t buy Lawrence Taylor’s Super Bowl ring
- Alex Smith gets blown up by Jon Beason over Cam Newton comments
