Jeremy Shockey Released, Could The Vikes Go For Him?
Bringing this up from the FanPosts section because it has some interesting food for thought.
Let me begin this post with a guilty admission here- I spent last weekend on a bachelor party with my three bestest friends... in enemy territory. And while I was tempted to scream "SKOL FAVRE YOU DIRTY SONSUVBIT...", particularly upon passing the Superdome...
...
...
Well, N'Orleans was AWESOME!!!!
So perhaps that might be tempering my following post, but I'd like to believe that I do still have the best interests of my beloved Vikes in heart and mind here, and am not still punch-drunk on 48 straight hours of Mardi Gras drinks up and down Bourbon Street and beyond.
OK, we've done the full disclosure bit, now let's get to the meat and potatoes. Shockey, if you haven't heard elsewhere/ somehow failed to figure out from this FanPosts' headline, was recently released by the Saints. He was released because of any particular drop in production or a serious injury, rather, he was released because he was due to make over 4 million next season, and the Saints have Jimmy Graham, a second year TE who's own production and youth make Shockey expendable. Oh, and it's very much worth mentioning that all involved sources, including of course Graham himself, have credited Shockey with his great development. You have to admit, it says a lot about a player who's willing to mentor a younger guy, well aware that the rookie may, in fact, replace him for his own job one day. (That wasn't a slam against Favre, BTW.)
So what have we got here? An aging vet who still has a year or two of solid production, a TE who can block and catch, and an all around good guy/ team player. The caveat here is that he was released due to his upcoming salary... but of course, we don't have to pay him 4 million, and depending on the competition for his services, we may well get him for considerably under that (perhaps 5 mil over 2 years- let's not kid ourselves, aging or not, Shockey will unlikely come cheap).
Of course, I'm not just saying this because I like Shockey (actually, being a Saint, I really didn't like him very much since the 2009 playoffs). The Vikings have good ol' Kleinsasser, who's primarily a blocking TE- a good thing to have with our O-line, but not someone who's particularly great at the receiving bit (not terrible either though). We also have Shiancoe, who's great with the receiving bit but not very good (IMO, not very good at all...) on the blocking bit. Past that we've got Jeff Dugan, who's... well, Jeff Dugan.
Assuming we do resign Sidney Rice, I'd place TE on our lists of to-do's behind O-line, QB, safety, and corner. So it's not obviously very high on that list, but it is #5. And with less draft picks than usual (friggin' Pats hosin' us...), I'm not a fan of us drafting a TE until the much later rounds, and we won't be able to count much on whoever we get then. Pick up Shockey and we give ourselves a year or two to patch the higher priorities before working on TE.
Furthermore, we're going to have someone young behind center- Webb or rookie, most likely. (Perhaps of course Bomar or Ramsey as I've suggested elsewhere, but I have a hard time believing, particularly if we have the joy of a full season, that Webb/ rookie/ both won't get SOME playing time, particularly later in the season.) The more weapons we give them, the better. Again, presuming (and it's admittedly a bit of a big presumption) that Rice is a Vike next year, we've got a good WR corps and a solid run game. With Shiancoe and Shockey providing additional receiver options at TE, we would have the nice benefit of giving our QB several threats to spread the ball around to. Add onto our run game to keep opposing LBs and secondary honest, and (praying) we get a much, much needed upgrade SOMEWHERE on our O-line, we could be making things relatively easy for the transitional phase of a young QB. And Shockey's a pretty solid blocking TE, as I said before- it's often overshadowed because he's primarily used as a recieving threat. But again, just like with Kleinsasser, it's not a terrible thing to give our O-line an occasional boost in the blocking department.
Of course, there are the downsides. Shockey is again aging, I wouldn't sign him to anything more than a two, three year contract tops. And he won't come very cheap, either. If another team is willing to pay him what he would have made in N'Orleans, we'll probably be best off just passing. BUT- should the opportunity arise, I think Shockey would make for a nice addition to the Vike's offensive threats.
What say you, my faithful Purple and Gold brethren? Would you like to see Shockey as a Viking this coming season?
This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.
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Damn I can't delete my comment, I was on track to say
that I love Shank, as much as the next guy, but I love his catching, NOT his pass blocking skills, and ALL the false starts he loves to accumulate. But obviously there’s a reason the Saints let Shockey go, and didn’t let him stick around and try to get something of value from him. It’s a really tough call for me to make, cause I love his pass blocking skills, but he is getting up there in age, and I’m no expert on all things Shockey, but I love the way Shank extends and catches the ball. Here are the stats for Shockey over the past 2 years:
-——- G GS Rec Yds Avg Lng TD Att Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost
2010 13 11 41 408 10.0 31 3 — — — — — — —
2009 13 12 48 569 11.9 66 3 — — — — — — —
And the stats for Shiancoe over the past two years:
-——G GS Rec Yds Avg Lng TD Att Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost
2010 16 9 47 530 11.3 33 2 — — — — — — —
2009 16 13 56 566 10.1 27 11
I haven’t seen his stats prior to this but I expected A LOT worse, with the Quarterback play that the Vikings had this year. Brett Favre threw 11TD’S and 19 INTS, and Visanthe still almost matched his yards total when Brett went 33-7. And he generally remains healthy, and plays his heart out on the field. Only downside is his pass blocking, so if Shockey came in he’d be the number 2 TE. Would he really want to be a number 2 TE when maybe he has a year or two of number 1 potential left in him? Also what message would that send to Shiancoe and Kleinsasser? If the FO could convince Shockey somehow to take a pay cut, be our number 2 TE, and be used primarily in running situations then I’d be all for it. But I don’t wanna screw over Jimmy Sass, either. In conclusion I’m like 50-50 on this idea. And, also I’m done rambling with my below par analysis, anyone care to tell me there thoughts my POV?
Well
I’m certainly not suggesting we replace Shianco or Kleinsasser with Shockey. Just that we add him to our current TE mix.
Nothing's tougher than being a diehard Vikings fan.
Fascinating
Makes you want to unfreeze time…. :)
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
I've always had the opinion we don't throw to Jimmy K enough
No, he won’t get massive YAC’s but he is so sure handed and much like Cris Carter he doesn’t hear the feet around him and shrug off from making a critical short yardage catch. Jimmy Kcould be the leRoy Hoard of TE’s if used the right way. Chilly was a telegrapher. If it was an obvious run situation AD was in a single back set. Hmmm? Who is getting the ball. It was even more obvious when Jimmy was in the game in that set. “Just here to block guys”
I love Shank. When ya meet and talk to the guy , he is all Vikings. Devoted to his team, his fans and his self-imrovement.
Shockey is old meat. Could he help better than Dugan -probobly. But his age and history of missing games would only warrent that with a much cheaper deal. Instead of 4 mil for one year it would have to be for two and a team option for a 3rd year that is incentive laden on the previous years production
AKA : Revenge4Webb
by CitrusFLViking on Feb 22, 2011 10:47 PM CST reply actions
Contract-wise
I think you and I agree. If anything, you might be a tad more generous to me- but a third year option with incentives is of course always a win-win for us. If he ends up having a suddenly stellar turn around (unlikely), then he’ll be worth it. If he doesn’t, then we’re off the hook.
Nothing's tougher than being a diehard Vikings fan.
Wow!
Man, I almost thought I was the only one who liked when the Vikings threw to Jimmy K… You are totally right… On 3rd down, he is the one I want the Vikes to throw to… He has some sure hands if I’ve ever seen any.
As far as Shockey goes… I like him, but really, I think we have great depth at TE… He is getting older, and is injury prone… I don’t think we’d ever get our money’s worth.
Something odd to think about though… Rumor has it, the Saints are juggling releasing Reggie Bush… um… I’m not sure what to think about that, but for the right price, he would make our backfield that much more terrifying, and also make the opposing special teams sweat bullets… I mean:
Could you imagine:
Berrian – - McKinnie / Hutchinson / Sullivan / M. Pouncey / Loadholt – Harvin – - Rice
Webb
R. Bush
A. Peterson
If I was playing defense… my mouth would drop open and never close… I might just stand in one place on the field and watch the show… LOL
Of Course, Berrian is optional… I haven’t made a final decision on him yet, he really hasn’t been fully healthy the last 2 years. I’m not sure if he is pro-team, or pro-self…
Oh...almost forgot
M. Pouncey in there is just a mental picture… I like all sorts of options in this years draft, and I am hoping that our O-line is healthy, especially Hutch.
cancer
last thing we need is a cancer in the locker room. IMO he falls into the category of a Ocho Cinco, TO
Not even remotely the case
Shockey was never a cancer while on the Saints. He was from every report an awesome team mate and fan favorite. He is one of the best, if not the best, true blocking catching TE out there. Plays hard through injuries. Just that his durability was becoming an issue (because of the way he plays) and his salary was way to high for his future role. Personally i hope we resign him at a reduced salary.
I like Hamburgers!
Yeah,
not sure where you’re getting this from. What makes you say he would be a cancer in our locker room?
Nothing's tougher than being a diehard Vikings fan.
I would be concerned about it too.
He is from N.O. originally (I’m fairly sure I read that somewhere), so it may have had a role in his lowered self-complex. Also the fact that he has probably matured with age.
In NYG, he created quite a bit of stir… I think as long as he is on a winning team, he might be pro-team.
You can't bring up problems from NY.
That’s way too long ago with really no repeated incidents since. It’s like bringing up Jared Allen’s DUIs from Kansas City.
Nothing's tougher than being a diehard Vikings fan.
Shockey
Born in Oklahoma.
Attended University of Miami.
No other ties to N.O. other than the two years playing with the Saints (that i am aware of anyway – this excludes any illegitimate children he may have been a part of while being in the big easy) . Once again, i don’t think you would find one teammate who didn’t like Shockey. He mentored Jimmy Graham a lot over the last year. Great all around compliment to the team. If it wasn’t for his salary i think he would still be with our team.
I like Hamburgers!
If I recall
and correct me if I’m wrong, but the worst thing he did in NO is get drunk and pass out at a pool party. And he didn’t drive or anything stupid like that either. Honestly, if the worst thing you do in NO is get drunk, well- let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Nothing's tougher than being a diehard Vikings fan.
No person, with any moral character
could make the mistake of playing for both the Giants and the taints.
if we don't want to go out and keep getting veteran QB's year after year...
…then we shouldn’t follow that model for TE, either. with Shiancoe’s contract nearing its end, we should draft a TE somewhere in the middle rounds who has good value (more of a receiver than a blocker, if we had to lean one way). i don’t mind Dugan as a blocking TE, especially with Jimmy K on his last legs
But who?
The TE selection in this draft is somewhat thin. Who do you think will be available in the 4th or 5th round that’s worth getting? And more importantly, will they be ready to make an impact next season, right away?
Nothing's tougher than being a diehard Vikings fan.
i'm partial to Rob Housler...
…should be available in the 4th/5th i’d imagine. receiving and red-zone threat. can’t say he’d have an impact ‘right away’, but looks good to me.
OK
And if we get to draft him, great. In fact, awesome- we can start the youth movement right away. But if he’s not ready to make an impact right away, why not get someone who can in the meantime?
Nothing's tougher than being a diehard Vikings fan.
don't we already have a guy in Shiancoe...??
considering how injury-prone Shockey is, i should think he’d be a step down from what we already have.
He's not meant to replace Shianco.
Just to offer an occasional alternative. Don’t forget Shianco got hurt himself last season, and he’s no spring chicken. Since we can’t have a young guy, better two old guys taking turns to try and limit the injuries/ keep production between the pair higher/ give defenses someone else to plan for. Shianco and Shockey are somewhat similiar in the recieving department, but still different enough to force defenses to make some adjustements.
Nothing's tougher than being a diehard Vikings fan.
i'd say one or the other
purely from a contractual standpoint. i don’t think it’d be worth having both of them on the roster.
That is
admitedly one thing I’m more than willing to admit as a potential problem. Again, I’d have to see it work contract-wise to be 100% on board- I’m running of the big assumption right now that we might be able to make it work. If it didn’t, I would never support a replacement of Shank with Shockey.
Granted, you know what they say about people who assume…
Nothing's tougher than being a diehard Vikings fan.
C'mon Man -- Allen Reisner from IOWA
4th or 5th round? He will be there. Dallas Clark. Tony Moeaki(Reisner started one year and that was because he played behind this guy). Enough said.
Last year we drafted Mickey Shuler in the 7th round.
He now plays for the Miami Dolphins. In fact 19 players from Viking drafts are playing on other teams right now.
As Spielman has said. We have to do a better job of evaluating and developing our own talent. So, lets quit hiring old guys and start building a football team.
BTW: Here is how rotoworld described Shockey.
No shocker here. The Saints were never going to shell out $4.7 million for an injury-prone blocking specialist who can no longer make plays after the catch. Shockey failed to top 30 yards in a game after early October,
Old knees are old knees. This is a hiring lunacy. Its not like he is going to get magically better.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
Shuler
We lost him on waivers in order to make room for Basket. Wow, what a nice trade off thanks to that short, fat retard of a coach.
yup
Childress should not have had 100% control of the roster. we lost some decent players because of it.
Not sure I can completely agree.
Regarding Shuler vs. Baskett, anyways. Chilly being in complete control of the roster wasn’t good- no argument there.
Look, we might like to think that just because Shuler has NFL blood in him and was a rookie in a position we’re rapidly aging in that he was really worth keeping. But I’m not so sure. I mean, he didn’t exactly light up the field in Miami. Time might prove me wrong. But I don’t think Shuler would have provided any real solution at TE for us. Yes, his two catches were quite nice… but they were again, only two. And while he did produce more than Baskett, it still says something to me that the FO felt Baskett was the better choice than Shuler. True, Baskett was meant to be some sort of replacement for Rice (just cuz he’s tall) and we were so hyper-focused on the Super Bowl or Bust mentality that we did several things that shot ourselves in the foot regarding the future. But I’m still not sold that Shuler would have ever really amounted to much for us. I think sooner or later he would have been waived regardless, either this past season or the next.
Nothing's tougher than being a diehard Vikings fan.
If we still had Shuler
or another rookie on the roster to develop, I might agree. However, the dirty secret is that we don’t have anyone at TE to develop. And, unless a TE is truly the BPA at one of our draft picks, and no one on our other list of priorities is worth getting, then I’m not a fan of drafting on this time around.
We have a lot- a LOT- of needs. We’re a rapidly aging team with a lot of question marks at several positions. Look at our secondary alone- Cedric Griffin and Chris Cook are starting to look injury prone, and while Winfield might be a beast, exactly how much longer is he going to be around?
I won’t use the words ‘rebuilding’ or ‘transition’ here because I know most of us see them as four letter words and an admission of failure before the season even starts. But we have a lot of roster upgrading and turn over-ing to do. It can’t all be done in a single offseason. So if we see a decent stop-gap at some point in FA to give us a little bit of breathing room, then I say go for it (and again, as always, assuming the contract situation is right).
No, Shockey won’t be lighting up the field for us. He won’t be winning us a Super Bowl all on his own. But I still think he will be a solid enough player at TE to help us in that position for at least a year, giving us a chance to start rebuilding upgrading it with a bit more time.
Nothing's tougher than being a diehard Vikings fan.
Do you see the hypocrisy in this Orlando?
You want to rebuild by getting old guys to hold down the fort.
If Shuler were still on the team we would not be having a discussion about wasting money and time on a free agent. We would be developing Shuler.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Feb 23, 2011 9:31 PM CST up reply actions
And let's not forget Colt Anderson, now the backup strong side Safety for the Eagles
Maybe part of the problem is that these guys didn’t fit the Viking’s scheme at the time, and there was no functional way to adapt the scheme to them, or them to it.
J/K.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Or maybe we didn't value young talent over old talent.
I think we simply kept thinking about “this year” instead of future years.
But on the other hand it is possible that guys like Seth Olsen, Freddy Brown, ect are much further along than we think and they were the young guys we are building the fure with.
Only time will tell. But since Spielman made the comment that “we need to do a better job evaluating and developing our own young players”, I have to believe we didn’t do a good job.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Feb 24, 2011 7:43 AM CST up reply actions
We didn't.
There’s no doubt about that. We absolutely had a ‘this year’ mentality last offseason. That’s why Shuler was waived for Baskett, why we traded a third rounder for Moss, and why the only QB on our team (aside from those picked up at the end of the season) was drafted as a WR.
You know, if we had won a Super Bowl, maybe it would have all been worth it. It would have been a helluva hangover, but if Favre was hoisting the Lombardi for Minnesota’s first SB win, we probably would have had a lot less regrets. But that we hurt our future so much just to be 4th in the NFC North… G-d that stings somethin’ mighty.
Nothing's tougher than being a diehard Vikings fan.
It's not hypocrisy.
I might ask you in turn, do you see the fantasy in your responses regarding Shuler? He’s not on our team, nor is any other young TE. So we can talk all day about Shuler… but he’s a Dolphin now, not a Viking, so it’s moot.
It’s not hypocrisy because I’m not suggesting Shockey is some sort of long-term solution. Most of us are OK with a vet QB for a year or two while we develop our QBOTF. Similiar-ish idea with Shockey and the TE situation. Yes, if there is a solid TE prospect at one of our drafts, and he’s the BPA over all others (and in particular our other various needs), then no problem. But we’ve got a lot of work already in this upcoming draft, and unless Spielman really does somehow magically get us our 3rd rounder back, we have less than usual to work with.
So my plan is albiet a complex one, but it’s also long-sighted in the sense of development. Get Shockey for a year or two, giving us more flexibility and depth at TE, a postion we’re thin and aging in already, and more importantly- and here’s one of my key points- giving us more TIME to rebuild using the proper youth movement.
No team turns over the oldest roster in the NFL in a single draft, much less so when you have 17 FAs (several of whom are young and key players) and no 3rd rounder.
Nothing's tougher than being a diehard Vikings fan.
Not sure how this helps the Vikes
When looking over the various position groups for the Vikings the one that hurting so badly it’s sinful is the TE position. It’s sinful because it’s allowed to become so old. The talent level is questionable much past Shank (Jimmy K has been a staple Viking for a long time but at this point in his career no defense is scared by him). It’s sinfully out of sorts because this is position where the Vikings need to catch up to the rest of the league and there is not any promising young talent there to suggest they will.
From this starting point to insert Shockey would only hurt things. Shockey really led the revolution that is happening right now at the TE position. That said he’s not part of the solution for the Vikings because his best football is behind him. The Vikings need to get younger and more talented not older with bigger names.
As LLV said what the Vikings really need to figure out what to do is do a better job of internal scouting and developing of players. One of the most shocking thoughts that I came across last offseason from Viking fans and FO comments was the expectation that most of the rookies wouldn’t compete for spots on the roster. On one hand this makes some what of sense due to the veteran talent of the team, on the other hand it really shoots the organization in the foot for future years since there is not any youth to fall back on once players start to decline or retire.
Getting a big name like Shockey doesn’t really help in the process of turning over the roster. This process is absolutely critical at TE since that position is especially old and getting a bit out of date with the NFL. Draft a young guy in a mid round and let him grow with the team. This solution will pay many more dividends than the one or two years you may get out of Shockey.
It's really not meant to turn the roster over.
It’s a temporary stop-gap to help the problem next season, buy us an extra year to attend to it while addressing other concerns this offseason, and to help the QB with extra recieving threats. As I said in the FanPost, I would put TE on the list of problems under O-line, QB, and secondary (which in itself has two problems- safety and corner). It’s up there, don’t get me wrong- but without a 3rd rounder I’m looking heavily towards FA to create a few stop-gaps here and there to give us some breathing room.
Nothing's tougher than being a diehard Vikings fan.
The Vikings have used too many stop gaps
I guess the burning question among this is…would it be better to continually use stop gaps and stay just above average, or take a hit on a rebuilding year or two and build something long term and sustaining?
Sure the Vikings could continue to use stop gaps in these positions, but I don’t see the value in it for the franchise right now. Green Bay should be built to last and Detroit is looking to be built to last as well. Chicago is a mystery, but unless they get better at drafting at the top of the draft they will have a closing window soon.
This reality leaves the Vikings at a turning point. Do you sacrifice a year or two to compete down the road with GB and Detroit…or do you cobble together a playoff unit this year and see what happens? Childress took the second option and well…it ended about as well as it did for Mike Sherman when he tried it that way too.
Right now the model I would look to would be Tampa Bay. They took it on the chin, slashed their roster and went young. Built around a QB and a few key defenders that were on the start of their team and now have a bright future. Bringing in guys like Shockey doesn’t work with that model.
by PackApologist on Feb 23, 2011 1:55 PM CST up reply actions
I say do both.
Again, I don’t think we’re going to win a Super Bowl just by adding Shockey. And certainly last season and this subsequent offseason showed what happens when you go for broke on today at the cost of tomorrow. But if we can draft a young TE at a later round, why not also have Shockey on the team as well? Yes, we’ve only got 53 spots available, but we’re going to have quite a bit of room once the majority our various FAs go their seperate ways.
Nothing's tougher than being a diehard Vikings fan.
OrlandoVikesFan
Did you happen to catch krewe du vieux this past saturday?
"My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them."-Winston Churchill
Getting an old vet vs. a young pick
is generally not a good idea. I’m not suggesting here that Shockey would be some sort of long-term solution, nor am I suggesting that should we pick him up, we go ahead and completely ignore our current TE situation forever.
The reason why I suggest this is because we’re not in a position, IMO, to pickup a decent TE prospect in the draft. Mickey Shuler was a decent late round pickup, but what exactly has he done to show promise? He scored a touchdown in preseason and has since recorded all of two catches. We can blast Chilly for replacing him with Baskett, but to me, it actually says a lot that the FO felt Baskett was a better choice than Shuler. They might have been wrong, but I don’t think they were THAT wrong.
I bring that point up because if we really want to get a solid TE prospect, we need to do so, IMO, within the first four rounds. (And I’m being generous.) We currently have three picks in the first four rounds. We need a QB, someone on O-line, and ideally someone in the secondary, assuming such players are available at our selections to warrant the picks.
Therefore, I don’t think we can count on us getting a decent TE prospect in this year’s draft, nor do I think, with our other problems, we really should be focusing on it right now. And again, my interest is two-fold: a.) cushion our current TE corps, and b.) increase the amount of options that our QB has. Again, if it’s Webb or a rookie, the more options the better for them. Shockey is good at blocking- that’s helpful with our O-line problems. Shockey is also good at catching- that’s helpful simply to increase the targets our QB will have. We’re not going to have ‘09 Favre out there turning our recievers into monsters, we’re going to need it being the other way around.
Again, if we get Shockey, I wouldn’t want to see him get a contract really past two years- again, maybe (MAYBE) three, but even that’s pushing it. And I wouldn’t pay him what he was due from the Saints. Come next draft we should be focusing a lot more on TE (and hopefully have, you know, a third rounder to help do so), and once we’ve got some youth there, then we can say bye to Shockey (as well as probably, at that point, Kleinsasser- I’d like to see Shianco stick around another couple of years, however- if nothing else as a good mentor).
No, this won’t be a franchise-changing FA move. Nor again is it any sort of attempt to create a long-term solution with our TE weakness. It’s a stop-gap, just like a vet QB who’s around for a year or two. Some of our lesser weaknesses, like TE, could stand a temporary stop-gap; again, in particular, if it helps the development of our QB.
Nothing's tougher than being a diehard Vikings fan.
Wrong timing
I get that position….in fact if this was a year ago I would probably have a different analysis. I would say the Vikings should go for it. Really they had the pieces in place to make one good push and a stop gap could be the spark to get them over that edge. This year is a bit different with the Vikings being on the top half of the draft, but probably not high enough to get that young franchise QB.
Here I would just shed the stop gap mentality and see this as an opportunity to build something special. Take a year or two on the chin and turn over the roster mercilessly. Teams that do this tend to be pleasantly surprised instead of those that continue to work with FA vets…see Philly of two or three years ago, Tampa, St. Louis, Detroit, & N.E.
by PackApologist on Feb 23, 2011 1:59 PM CST up reply actions
Part of my point
that I think is getting a little lost here is my interest in helping the development of our up-and-coming QB, whoever that is. I’m fully willing on taking it on the chin for a season or two- really, at this point, we don’t have a choice. I mean hell, we sure did take it last season despite all our efforts. But I want to see our QB develop into a star who can compete with Rodgers, Cutler, and Stafford. Scratch that- not compete, overshadow and embarrass.
Nothing's tougher than being a diehard Vikings fan.
You are under the mistaken impression that
a pass catching Te is a young QBs best friend. That theory has been completely blown apart by several studies. A young QBs best friend is his RB. A pass catching RB. We have two of those.
If we could draft Shuler in the 7th, then do it again. Hell, do it in the 4th,5th,5th, 6th, or 7th. I don’t care. Just do it.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Feb 23, 2011 9:35 PM CST up reply actions
Not really.
I don’t think a catching TE is their ‘best friend’ by any means. In fact, I’d say RB and Defense are their best friends- a running back can carry some offensive load for a QB with minimal work on the QB’s part, and a defense can mop up their mistakes and not make them feel as if they ‘lost a game’. (Which is always the biggest falacy in the world. If I read one more story about how ‘this QB or that QB won/lost a game’ I’m gonna puke.)
My point is that in general the more weapons the better. Yes, sometimes a QB can work with a single WR and have a great system. Sometimes a RB can do 90% of the work. But I’d like to develop a versatile QB, one who’s used to spreading the ball around- those are your champion QBs.
Kleinsasser has solid enough hands and Shianco, when healthy, can be a very reliable target. But both are aging. Shianco suffered a drop in production (just like Shockey) due to his increasing age and the wear and tear on his body. We’re very thin a TE. So adding some depth, particularly with a fairly reliable target (as well as a good blocker to augment the O-line) can’t hurt Webb/ Rookie/ JaMarcus Russel’s (J/K) development.
If we draft a bottom round TE you won’t hear me complaining. But I don’t see them being a reliable target next year. Shuler wasn’t. And TBH I’d like to go bonanza on the O-line if we can in the later rounds, seeing as how I’ve given up and just accepted that we’re most likely to draft a QB #12 rather than Nate Soler, and also accepted that Mike Pouncey won’t be available by our pick in round 2. (Would love to be proven wrong though…)
Nothing's tougher than being a diehard Vikings fan.
Colts released Bob Sanders
I’d like to see us get him.
Skol!
by Thor.in.your.side on Feb 23, 2011 4:21 PM CST reply actions
Not a bad idea either.
I supported that in the post regarding Sanders. Still, he is RIDICULOUSLY injury prone.
Nothing's tougher than being a diehard Vikings fan.
I'm for Bob.
His stats when healthy are monstrous. Now there is someone you can’t replace in the draft. Is he health risky? Hell Yes. Is he worth the signing even if he fails. Hell yes. Its not like it will change anything about our strategy. He is simply a glory wish. Sign him and hope for glory.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Feb 23, 2011 9:38 PM CST up reply actions
So what's different about signing Shockey?
His stats might not be ‘monstrous’ when healthy, but they are very solid. And as far as health goes, Shockey is FAR more reliable than Bob Sanders, who I hear suffered a concussion when Matt Schuab looked at him funny one time.
I’m not arguing about Sanders- I’m OK with that move as well, actually. Always assuming the contract is OK though, we can’t be dropping millions off our salary cap to a guy who plays 4 times a season. But our secondary could sure use his help.
If you want Sanders as a glory wish, knowing it’s a huge gamble due to his injury prone-ness, why not want Shockey as a fairly reliable solid wish? It would be far less of a gamble.
Nothing's tougher than being a diehard Vikings fan.
The Problem with Shockey
Is he get’s hurt alot, and it was frustrating dealing with that. Now, when he’s healthy, that’s another story..he plays very well.
That's interesting. You know what makes me sad? YOU DO!!! Maybe we should chug on over to mambypandyland...or maybe we can find some self confidence for you YA JACKWAGON!!!!!!
(tears) Tissue?.....Crybaby.
Between Shiancoe, Kleinsasser, and Shockey
You can keep a good enough rotation to hopefully limit wear and tear/ chances for injury.
Nothing's tougher than being a diehard Vikings fan.
or put Sauce
At FB. he can obviously block. He can catch for more than ONE FREAKING YARD. (DAMN TAHI. I think the reason we had so many negative plays was because Tahiti couldn’t block or gain a yard when he was the dump off Guy)
Shank and Shock on the slants with Harvin and Rice out wide? I want him just for the name.
SHANK AND SHOCK
"Time for some Percy Harvin Magic Baby!"-Me right before he returned a Kickoff for a Touchdown against Shits, err, Pittsburgh...
by marsexxxy23 on Feb 23, 2011 6:27 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Correct me if I'm wrong
but didn’t Kleinsasser start as a FB? Or was that Dugan?
Nothing's tougher than being a diehard Vikings fan.
Sweet!
Didn’t think this was going to make front page, but I’m honored. Thanks again all for making this into a solid conversational piece!
Nothing's tougher than being a diehard Vikings fan.
Shockey fits the image of a crazed Viking
Well, maybe a little more “Mad Max” than Viking, but I like to watch the guy because he’s kind of scary and pretty good. Maybe not the right fit with the age and possible injuries, but if he could be had for a little less money I would sure be for it.
Then, do you think we could get Clay Matthews. Now there’s a Viking if I ever saw one.
Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted. - John Lennon
i would stop supporting the Vikings
If Clay played for us. I hate him that much.
Okay, I’m lying, I’d still support them. I’d just hope he never made a tackle for us.
"Time for some Percy Harvin Magic Baby!"-Me right before he returned a Kickoff for a Touchdown against Shits, err, Pittsburgh...
by marsexxxy23 on Feb 23, 2011 6:54 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Agreed.................................
Next season………………………..
someone on our O-line needs to embarrass him badly.
Brett Favre is the Greatest QB in NFL History, Bar None!
Brett Favre will be back in a shortened 2011 due to a lock out, Guaranteed!
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLVI, Guaranteed!
by REVENGE4FAVRE on Feb 23, 2011 7:08 PM CST up reply actions
M. Pouncey
FTW?
"Time for some Percy Harvin Magic Baby!"-Me right before he returned a Kickoff for a Touchdown against Shits, err, Pittsburgh...
by marsexxxy23 on Feb 23, 2011 11:19 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
OK I apologize for the Clay Matthews remark. I forget about the Packer hate sometimes.
Matthews is strong, he never gives up and he wets his hair in 10 degree weather. The man is crazy. He just reminds me of what a real Viking would have looked like coming at you with sword drawn, right before he lopped your head off.
Hey, we’ve got a calf roper. He just needs the mullet to rope like he used to.
Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted. - John Lennon
by JethroBoViking on Feb 24, 2011 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
lol don't apologize
I was just stating that I hate Him.
I do agree that he would be a great example of a Viking tho.
"Time for some Percy Harvin Magic Baby!"-Me right before he returned a Kickoff for a Touchdown against Shits, err, Pittsburgh...
by marsexxxy23 on Feb 24, 2011 12:28 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Or Nate Solder
if a man is allowed to dream.
Wait, if I’m dreaming, forget it. Both.
Nothing's tougher than being a diehard Vikings fan.
The season that Clay Matthews plays for us
is a season where I would consider becoming a Lions fan.
Nothing's tougher than being a diehard Vikings fan.
One word:
Cam
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Feb 23, 2011 9:39 PM CST up reply actions
...the Scam"
I guess that is three words.
Weren’t you hyping Jimmy Clausen last year?
"I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it."
I hyped drafting a QB in the first round.
I said one million times that if Clausen was rated by our FO as a franchise guy then they should take him. Obviously, all 32 teams did not rate him that high. But ,yes, I would have taken him based on my limited evaluation experience. Glad we didn’t.
But if we had drafted a great QB last year we sure wouldn’t be in this pickle now.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Feb 24, 2011 7:47 AM CST up reply actions
And I've always said that I appreciate your unwaivering support of the franchise we both love
But I think what posters like Mark 18 and I love about this time of year, is speculation as to which prospects will have good NFL careers, and which prospects we’d like to see in purple and gold. Once the draft actually happens, well then naturally we’re gonna support the players that are drafted by the vikes. But until that happens, it’s fun to talk about the draft prospects and pretend that we know what the hell we are talking about. It gives us something related to football to discuss. There’s nothing wrong with going out an a limb and throwing some names in the ring that you’d like for the vikings to draft (as you are seemingly doing with Cam Newton).
What the hell else are we to talk about? The NBA? No thanks! ;-)
"I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it."
last draft season the 2 names I was throwing around were
Colt McCoy and Tyson Alualu. Colt went later than I expected, and Alualu went way earlier than I think anyone expected.
This year I am pulling for Akeem Ayers, Muhammad Wilkerson, Luke Stocker and Greg McElroy (in rounds 1, 2, 3 and 5 respectively). Now all I gotta do is get that 3rd rounder back for us!
"I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it."
Hey, I get the fun of it for you.
And I support that. I read Mocking the draft religiously. I follow the mock drafts and understand about the players. I also recognize my limitations. I simply can not evaluate a football player. I don’t have the skills. The best I can do is read about a player and try and form an uneducated opinion ( like my view on Clausen).
Even if I did do what you do I doubt I would form an opinion prior to having all the data. The combine does count for something. Pro days do count for something. Forming an opinion to early creates a bias that doesn’t allow for real evaluation later.
But for now I’m pretty open. The Mallet rumors certainly are a huge red flag to me. I’m curious as to Gabbert’s “weight issue”. I’m not sure I have heard of a top notch college QB getting flabby once in a while. The reason for Locker’s inaccuracy intrigues me. Cam’s ability to read defenses is a question to which I’m not sure I’ll ever have an answer. Ponder’s elbow injury? Was it caused by his throwing motion or was his motion affected by the injury? Can Dalton or Kapernick make it on the big stage?
Many questions abound. Unlike many, I’m just not able,right now to tell you who my fav for the Vikings will be. I really do like Ponder and hope to learn more about his injury. It is looking more and more like Cam will not be available, even at #6.
Good luck to those for whom you are wishing success.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Feb 24, 2011 1:34 PM CST up reply actions
It's definately not an easy profession
Being a scout that is. I guess I conveniently left off another name that I was interested in last year: Central Michigan’s Dan LeFevour. But to my credit, I wouldn’t have spent more than a 5th rounder on him ( I think the bears took him in the 5th or 6th, not sure if he latched on).
The questions you raised about the top QB’s this year are shared by many, in fact I just put up a fanshot about it if you are interested.
I have not heard anything about Gabbert’s weight issue…and I don’t have all the details about Ponder’s injuries either. But I do know that sometimes injuries get blown out of proportion, as they did for AP prior to the 07 NFL draft. He had suffered a high ankle sprain (one of the most common football injuries) and a fractured collar bone. Well upon closer review, I learned that the collar bone happend while AP prematurely celebrated a TD, in which he dove for the endzone from about 4 yards out and landed on his shoulder. Well to me, that is a freak injury that was not reflective of AP being prone to injury. So perhaps there is an explanation to Ponder’s injury that can help ease our minds…
"I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it."
AP's collar bone injury
was just a kid doing something dumb. He seemed to have learned his lesson- who wouldn’t? It definitely puts injuries into perspective.
But I do have to say that if a 22-23 yo QB is hurting his elbow, that’s a scary sign. They’re not all gonna be Favre, but at the same time, if you’re injuring a critical part of your body at that age, what happens when NFL guys are hitting you and you’re pushing 30, 35?
Nothing's tougher than being a diehard Vikings fan.
It sucks for me.
In a two-fold regard. You know me- I’m the black sheep at want an O-line guy at #12. But I can get past that. The thing that’s killing me is Mallet. He was my #1 guy for QB, but if these rumors are true (at least about the cocaine… I think Harvin proved you shouldn’t flip a wig over weed) then there’s nooooo way we should get him.
So now I’m stuck not really liking anybody. Locker, I guess, is my new guy.
Nothing's tougher than being a diehard Vikings fan.
Colt McCoy
It is an absolute shame he’s not a Viking right now. That would have been a great draft move. But of course, we had Brett Favre, so why bother, right? Oh, and Tavaris Jackson. We were SET at QB.
Nothing's tougher than being a diehard Vikings fan.
I was hoping for Colt last year too, then out of nowhere comes Joe Webb.
Blaine Gabbert would be a great choice. Lots of time to develop that Mo. boy along with Webb. Screw the Super Bowl next year. (or not) It’s time to think about the future past 2011.
Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted. - John Lennon
by JethroBoViking on Feb 25, 2011 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
Have to admit
If you gave me the opportunity to go somehow magically switch Webb and McCoy, I’d do it. Don’t get me wrong, I like Webb and believe he has potential- but a part of me wonders if that’s just not optimism and the fact that I really do like the kid. That said, McCoy seemed to show ‘more’ than Webb, and I do logically believe McCoy would be the more succesful choice.
Can’t do it though, so SKOL Webb, prove me wrong!
Nothing's tougher than being a diehard Vikings fan.
get it done vikings!!!!!!
going after shockey only makes sense. He is a complete Tight end. He can pass and run block, and also is a very good receiving tight end. They should give Dugan the boot and bring shockey in. Just Imagine how much that would improve the running game and the passing game.

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