Frazier Looking to Draft a Starting QB
by DCPurple on Mar 24, 2011 10:02 PM CDT
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PrintEDIT: Well, we have Frazier talking about non-QB issues, so let's hear him talk about the quarterback issue. Plus, it links to the Jamestown Sun, which is always alright by me. - Chris
I found an interesting article in the news today, Frazier talking about the QB situation;
Frazier talked extensively about the quarterback position at the breakfast. He made it clear that his desire would be to draft someone and plug him in as the starter.
“Ideally, [the goal] would be to get a young guy that could say, ‘OK, we’re going to ride with this guy. He’s our guy. He’s our [Joe] Flacco, he’s our [Mark] Sanchez, he’s our Matt Ryan,’” Frazier said. “He would step in as our starter. That would be the ideal situation. You know you’re going to go through your lumps early on but in the long term you just know you’ve got the right guy, that’s he’s just going to get better and better and better and we build around him.
“There’s no question that would be the way to go and it’s probably been a while since that’s happened in Minnesota. You’d love to have that in your organization. Chicago has that now with [Jay] Cutler, Green Bay has that now with [Aaron] Rodgers, Detroit has that now with [Matthew] Stafford. We want to join that club. We want people to say, ‘Minnesota has their guy.’”
Now he's not saying anything we don't already know, or haven't pretty much figured out on our own here at the DN, but what makes it interesting is the confirmation. Between the lot of us, we seem to be on the same general track as LF in analyzing where the Vikings are and what they need to do, and why.
The new question answered is whether or not the Vikings hope to get a STARTING QB out of the draft. They do. That means top talent, not trading down, not picking up some dark horse in the 5th round and hoping they can polish that rough diamond up in 2-4 years. They want their own draft pick to start immediately.
It also suggests that they don't see Joe Webb as That Guy. Probably work him out and let him compete for a backup position, but they see that he needs the work and time before being ready for anything serious in the NFL. Again, that's the same consensus we more or less came to here at the DN, but again, it's nice to see that we were on the same track.
Our new question is, do you agree with Frazier?
This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.
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my main concern with that statement
is that if he gets too enamoured with one player and refuses to bench him (ala Favre, T-Jack and Chilly) I understand the first season will be rocky, but can he objectively critique the quaterback if he goes all in?
Guess we’ll see.
Skol!
As much doubt as there is for the this QB class; there's much upside...
It honestly seems like any number of these guys could step in under center, and have a sanchez/flacco type year. We have an outstanding run game, and a defense that will hopefully show up in 2011. I would be happy with the selection of:
Jake Locker, Ryan Mallett, Andy Dalton, Christian Ponder, and possibly Ricky Stanzi.
All guys I feel will be an upgrade and do alright.
Draft a QB! Please God!
by Macdaddy4508 on Mar 24, 2011 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
My list looks much the same actually.
I think it’s important to point out that while everyone seems to be hearing this as “QB is our top priority with our top pick”, many of the QB’s he listed were not top 10 picks in stronger QB drafts. Neither Flacco, Rodgers or Cutler were picked in the top 10. And with the way this class looks, as Macdaddy pointed out, the best player could easily end up being one of the QB’s to go in the 2nd round.
Really all he is saying is they want a QB that we can say, he’s our quarterback for the next decade like the Jets, Falcons, Bears, Packers, Lions and Ravens can. Where the player is picked doesn’t matter so much as that they get a guy they believe in and stick with him.
by Cobra312004 on Mar 24, 2011 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Well
When Robert Quinn drops to #12 and a DE needy team like Tampa offers up a buttload, we’ll trade down to #20 and get our guy.
Draft a QB! Please God!
by Macdaddy4508 on Mar 25, 2011 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions
That would be nice
I don’t mind moving back to #20. That’s 8 spots. Not sure what that’s work point-wise, but I would think it’s at least a 3rd, if not a 2nd round pick we’d get along w/ swapping #1s
Skol!
Personally
If Quinn was there and we didn’t draft him, I’d be disappointed. That guy is gonna be a freak.
Rodgers not top 10
But there was a high probability he would be. Heck, he almost went #1.
I think it's irrelevent where he actually went
Because that had more to do with who NEEDED a QB and who didn’t. There’s obviously a lot of teams kicking themselves now, but what do you do? It wasn’t really his “stock” that fell. It was just the nature of that year’s draft.
Skol!
It was a little bit his stock
There were other teams that were interested that let him slide too. It’s not like after he wasn’t picked first, he was destined to slide down to the Packers.
And who knows how Rodgers would have turned out had he not been able to ride the bench for 3 years.
I agree Cobra...
Actually, he’s not even saying that he intends to draft that QB, just that “ideally” we would have that young guy we knew was our QBOTF.
A new QB will need time
And a lot of patience from the Vikings management, and most of us, from you and me and all the rest of Viking fandom. The Vikings will go through a year or two of ups and downs and overall mediocre records until our guy comes out on top. The trick is making sure we have the right guy, and we’re all still a bit gun-shy after T-Jack.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
I don't know how much "developing" TJack got though
He was pegged as the starter WAY too soon, but the only thing that helped TJ was the fact that he kept getting injuried so he had some legitimate excuses for a while. I think that kept a lot of hope out there for him. I think it’s pretty obvious now that when we drafted webb @#199, he had easily as much upside as TJack. That sucks knowing that chillifries whiffed so badly on him. Also, not sure how many of you remember this, but where could we be right now if Shank doesn’t drop that TD pass by TJack VS the Colts in week 2 of ’08?
Skol!
Exactly....
Without that drop, and a few others, the season starts completely different and TJ doesn’t get benched. Also, don’t forget he was injured that preseason and still nursing it. He really didn’t get the reps needed.
TJ gets way too much hate. You can’t fault the guy for not being better when you consider his past and where he really should have been drafted. If Webb was a 2nd rounder most people wouldn’t be all that high on him as the starter either. But since he was drafted in the proper round he is viewed as a work in progress, just like TJ should have been.
I agree.
Jackson gets too much hate. He was drafted too early, and was named the starter too early.
Not to mention that when he first got here, he was throwing to T. Williamson, A. Allison and B. Wade…….Certainly not the greatest set of WR’s to help build a rookie QB’s confidence….lol.
But the injuries are still there
And that’s part of it. A big part of it. The kid could not stay healthy enough to keep his job. He even got injuried again this year in his only action of the season.
"I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it."
I agree to that too.
Jackson is as fragile as a China-Doll, and that’s not good for a QB like Jackson who can’t read a defense.
I just think that many people were too hard on him in the beginning.
In all reality, Jackson shouldn’t have been starting til his 2nd or 3rd year.
agreed
Plus he’s just not a West Coast type QB. I think in AZ or NE he would have been better off.
"I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it."
Tru dat NM
I think he could play in Philly too. Wide-open offense. He’s not a structured-system type QB. I think he shows that he can naturally play the position, but as far as reads, timing rountes, and schemes he’s clueless. He was definitely a “programmatic non-fit”
Skol!
This biggest problem with this is that there just don’t seem to be any clear options that will be “starter ready”. I think that there are a few that might be mid-season ready, but that’s not what it sounds like he’s talking about.
So I think he’s blowing smoke. Yes, he’d like to get a Flacco or a Sanchez or a Ryan, but there just aren’t many (if any) in this draft class that fit that mold (i.e. no Luck…get it? see what I did there…). That said, I really like what Spielman has done in the drafts, so if he thinks trading up is necessary, I’ll support the decision.
I agree
BUT, like others have said here. As fans, we need to be patient. I’m actually really warming up to the idea of just putting a rookie in there and just make that decision and just live with it. I’m not a fan of Mallett, but as far as QBs that I could see starting right away and not being a “nightmare” (and by nightmare I’m looking at you Jamarcus), I think Mallett, if he just goes out there and lets it FLY, could be really effective early on. I’m not sold on him overall, because I think teams would figure him out sooner or later and he’d be too easy to gameplan against. With that in mind, Gabbert, Ponder, Dalton, Stanzi seem to be the safer picks. Mallett, Newton, and Locker are all wildcards(large upside depending on how they transition)
Skol!
Go for it frazier!
Go strong or go home that’s my motto!
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
agreed
Go big, roll the dice. No guts no glory
by redhearring on Mar 24, 2011 2:03 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
i'd like it better than bringing in any of the mediocre vets via FA...
…though having said that, we obviously run the risk of stunting any development the QB may have should things not progress well. it seems crazy to say it, but T-Jack could have been a lot better had he not been thrown in right away.
then again, i assume we’re talking a QB with 1st rd talent, sooo…
…order up one baptism by fire, 86 PLOT, with fries, please.
T-Jack
What do you see in T-Jack that leads you to believe he could have been better if he had sat behind a veteran for a couple years?
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
He did have flashes
I think we can all agree on that. That’s what made him so hard to watch. Remember the Bills game? He started off terrible, came back strong, finished up pretty bad. He was always up and down. Do I think he was going to be amazing if circumstances were different? Maybe, would’ve given him more time to learn the NFL speed etc but realistically I think he hit his NFL ceiling after this year, he had more than ample time to show us all that he had significantly improved but he never did, he sort of always stayed at the status quo of mediocre.
Nothing
People still try to convince themselves TJ was a capable NFL QB. He was a pick that never should have been.
@}-----You've been Touched-----{@
by Velvetouch on Mar 25, 2011 7:45 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yep, never should have been a 2nd rounder
But if you take him in the 5th, where he was projected, he wouldn’t look so bad.
He has the tools, the Vikings were not able to develop them into starting material.
thats to say
It son the Vikings? Anyone who has some basic football knowledge seen this pic as WTF.
@}-----You've been Touched-----{@
We weren't the only ones targeting him
He would have been drafted in the 3rd round if we didn’t take him. And who knows how he would have turned out in any other system. The West Coast offense though, terrible fit.
Too bad we didn't "miss" out on him
We could have gotten involved in the Flacco/Ryan sweepstakes. Oh well, let’s get our guy this year and live long and prosper in the land of purple…haha….ok about TJ again, I want to keep saying this because it makes my day: “he was a programmatic non-fit” LOL so long chillidoushe
Skol!
TJack had potential
and that’s all he’ll probably be remembered for. i didn’t say he could have been elite, i didn’t even say he could have been top 12, i just said he could have been better had he been given time to adjust. certainly Chilly reached for him in the 2nd, but that doesn’t mean TJack couldn’t have been molded into a decent starter.
But at the same time it hindered his strengths
Hmmm… Catch-22.
"I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it."
Good O line makes a good qb – trade back get pouncey and pick up locker in second
by Tswing on Mar 24, 2011 11:49 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
O-Line
Ok, let’s see what we’ve got;
McKinnie is…. unmotivated
Hutch is both aging coming off an injury
Sullivan is inconsistent
Herrera is both aging and coming off an injury
Loadholt will probably get better.
I see 4 out 5 starters that need to be replaced with better players. Do you think that Pouncey, all by himself, will turn the unit around?
And what happens if their guy (let’s assume it’s Locker) is gone in the 2nd? Now they’re moving backwards, fast.
I agree with you that the O-line is a very high priority, I’ve been advocating it for the past 2 years here. But you only got 1 chance to get a top-rated QB and they’re about as rare as hen’s teeth. Top-rated O-linemen are much easier to pick up later in the draft and in FA, and they cost less too.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Nice list
For some reason too many people think the Vikings line is good. Just because AP can put up numbers doesn’t really mean a whole heck of a lot when you actually watch this line play.
It's been discussed to death but here goes
The line looks worse than they are because of the zone blocking system they were asked to run. This is probably the single stupidest thing that Childress did while he was here. I know that’s saying a lot but I truly believe that.
Zone blocking linemen are small, quick and agile. They are often former TE’s. They are small but use their leverage and quickness to close off blocking lanes. They are usually 10-15 pounds below 300 pounds, with only the tackles flirting with the low 300’s. It’s the system the Broncos ran when they were putting up thousand yard rushers like crazy and had zero 300 pound linemen.
The Vikings on the other hand have ALL 300+ pound, man blocking maulers. Every single one of them (including the backups). This is why Matt Birk never got along with Childress. This is why our line looks overmatched so much. They are being asked to finesse beyond what they’re capable of when they are built to bury their guys instead. The idea of having two 6’8" 350 pound tackles and then trying to teach them to finesse block is beyond insane. The best part is that, even though we ran a zone, Childress kept bringing in MORE man blockers to force into his line.
Are our linemen aging? Yes. Are linemen able to be very effective blockers long past the ages they are? Hell yes. I want to see what this line is capable of in the right blocking scheme before I start making judgements on their abilities.
This really is an old debate
It’s been rolling since we lost Matty Birk, and understandably so.
We’ll see what happens this year, but nothing can change the fact that Hutch and Herrera are getting up there in years and may be turning more prone to injury, and it can’t change the fact that McKinnie only does his job for about 3 seconds before taking a coffee break.
It’s time to bring in top-flight replacements for 4 out of 5 of the O-linemen, no matter what scheme you run. It would be a year or two before draftees are ready to step up anyway, but you have to start the process.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
agree
I’ve said it before, having all these 300 pounders pushing & leaning on a front 7 for the whole game makes a big difference in the passing game also. Beat them down in the run game, put them on their heels, & later they are too tired to chase the QB, which affords him time to make his reads & find the open man
L. A. Player
by L. A. Player on Mar 27, 2011 1:52 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Ehhh
Ok someone clarify that I am reading this right….
Hes wanting to draft a new starter, not just a new QB. IE Sam Bradford, welcome to training camp (if it happens) and get ready to play Day 1 btw?
Or is he just looking for a guy we can have for a long time, maybe not start year 1, but be learning some whomever we have in front of him?
Because the way I am reading it and then some of the posts I am getting confused on what hes asking for…
**Rupert for ProBowl 2012!**
Both
He wants Bradford to walk in and START and be there for 10+ years and be our “Franchise” guy.
Skol!
It's a best-case scenario answer
That’s all. Reality is there’s a small percentage chance that this works out like this.
Skol!
Id love for it to work...
Just going to be alot of OMG OMG OMG until we know I guess :)
**Rupert for ProBowl 2012!**
cross your fingers cross your eyes cross what ever you go that we win the 2011 QB lotto.
odds of winning? slim. Odds of winning if you don’t try? None.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
It's what he said he wants
And he’s in a position to go after what he wants.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
t jack our man
this is t jacks team he is a vet.now.you dont need to pass 300 yards a game they are a running team you just need to run run and run somemore right down the gut .you got two good half backs you need to do something about offensive line tho they suck qbs gonna get killed back their run the ball take controll of game time of poss. keep defence rested
Scott sorry man but you are so lost !!!
by cali viking on Mar 25, 2011 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Cut him some slack
At least the 2nd half of his post made sense once he got all the TJack garbage out of his system he started making sense. I wish he would have just kept posting, he might be healed.
Skol!
That's why I don't think kids today should take recreational drugs.
Seriously though, sorry to hit you with that Scott, but TJ has very few qualities that I believe a true dominant QB needs. We could go into this ad naseum but alas he won’t be a Viking next year.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
T-Jack
T-Jack sux….there is no getting around that….the starting QB job was his to lose, what, 3 times? He is a back-up at the best…..
"Ya just can't fix stupid....."
He seems to get injured too much too
If he starts playing good, he has an ankle that keeps getting tweaked so I don’t even like him as a backup. He’s no reliable enough. Either way, He’s GONE so let’s get over it.
Skol!
Not @ #12
I think Locker will be available at pick 12, I just pray that the Vikings don’t take him. Because of the CBA issues I think trading down will be almost impossible, the dream scenario being the Vikings trade down in the 1st round pick up some additional picks and then pick one of the remaining QB’s that might go at the top of the 2nd round. (Like Dalton)
If they reach for a QB at #12 I think it will color Fraziers legacy for years to come. There should be a great pick at #12, probably the first offensive tackle in the round. Maybe A.J. Green now that Julio Jones has blasted up in the 1st round. Maybe even Prince Amakamura falls to us. If we pick Locker with these players available it would be a huge mistake.
I like trading back to 18-25
Draft whatever QB you want there. Use the 2nd/3rd rd pick on OL. Use our current 2nd rd on CB/Safety. Use the rest of the draft to fill in. Of course keeping BPA in mind the whole time. If some of these positions need to get flipflopped, then so be it. I’m just throwing this out as a general template(and best case scenario)
Skol!
If there are no trades then I think people will be leary about losing picks this year.
A lot of teams are going to have to fill holes from eiher the practice squad or the draft this year. Could be slim pickings on the whole free agency thing this year.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Agreed
I’d rather draft a non-QB at 12 and get that pick right. It’s looking more and more like there could be an amazing position player still on the board at 12 and I’d be fine rolling the dice to see what QB’s come to us in the 2nd round.
A.J. Green, Prince, Robert Quinn or even Julio Jones could potentially drop to us and I’d be very disappointed to see us take a QB over any of those guys.
Prince
Of all those guys, id push past an elderly lady at Luby’s buffett to get Prince….
**Rupert for ProBowl 2012!**
Quinn for me
That guy is gonna be a beast. If he fell to us and we passed I would be sorely disappointed.
Totally agree
About Prince… He’s going to be a beast. I’d take Green or Jones if they were there, but I would be ecstatic Prince fell to us… Quinn will be boom or bust; I could see it either way. Let a DE hungry team trade up and take that risk
Where's the bust?
He’s a freak on the field, he’s a freak in the weight room (and the track). That he missed a year is the only reason he has a slight chance to be there for us at 12. And why was he suspended? For accepting gifts from agents. That’s it. No drug history, no arrest record, no injury red flags. He’s got good attitude, very coachable. He was a 3 time state champion wrestler in high school (went 86-0 during his last three years) for those that know what wrestling teaches a person about leverage. He survived a brain tumor, which inspired his mantra “I got a second chance, so I’m going to take full advantage of it”.
This kid is boom or nuclear explosion. He could be very good or he could be epic. And starting his career under Karl Dunbar and learning from Jared Allen and Kevin Williams is as good a start as anyone could ask for.
Mike Mayock: “He’s as good a natural pass rusher as I’ve ever seen.”
Quinn is an absolute animal. His size and speed is unreal, and his dip coming off the edge is exceptional. He even already uses his hands pretty well. I think he’s going to be “epic”.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Mar 26, 2011 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah if we didn't need a QB so damn bad
I would be getting excited about Quinn and Allen bookending Kevin Williams and whoever the hell we had in hte middle.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
I don't hate Quinn...
I think he will be good, and I hope he is. I just would be more comfortable with Prince. It’s more of a need. I think Allen/Robison can get 10+ sacks each… DE is not a need for this team.
He’s a great story, and a very good prospect. It just seems like Erasmus James all over again. I wanted him to succeed too… Some “sure fire” DE prospects are misses; it seems like more-so than other positions… And it’s not a need for this team. That’s all I was saying
Robison is not a 10+ sack defensive end
He’s decent enough and he could put up close to Edwards’ numbers, but to expect double digits from him as an every down end is absurd.
At any rate, no one said that defensive end was a “need”. This is a BPA pick no matter what. But as the Giants have demonstrated, having lots of dangerous pass rushing ends can be an incredible luxury and make the entire defense better. Adding Quinn immediately bumps us back up to top 3 front seven in the league status. And that makes the secondary’s job a lot easier.
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