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Viking Quest: Stadium Debacle 2011

If you listen closely you can hear a whirring sound. That's whir of the collective twiddling thumbs of all those fine folks* who write about NFL football. We're entering into that football wasteland (imagine it to this tune) of the lockout stalemate between the NFL owners and the players. Our writing talents are spent on guessing when and where different players will be drafted, and recounting the arrests of players who are, apparently, getting as bored as we are. Fortunately, the Minnesota Vikings, yes, that team that kept you wondering what the heck would happen next all last season, have ridden to the rescue.

Congratulations Vikings fans, the stadium debate is heating up! Well, that's to say, the Minnesota legislature is all primed and ready to talk about the legislative proposal for a new Vikings stadium. So, in terms of temperature, we're going from cold to tepid. At the current rate we may even make it to lukewarm by 2016 when the Vikings are moving into new digs in Los Angeles. Ridiculous as it might sound, simply getting the Minnesota legislature to agree to talk about a stadium proposal is a big, hairy deal.

As recently as a year ago, all legislative discussion regarding a Minnesota Vikings stadium proposal was deemed frivolous. With the exception of a short-lived suggestion to fund a new stadium with a racino bill, a new Minnesota Vikings stadium, given the economic atmosphere in the country and state, seemed like a tough sell.

Mind you, both the University of Minnesota Gophers football team and the Minnesota Twins MLB team were stretching their gams in shiny new stadiums, but talk of the Vikings getting a stadium was, in recent years, portrayed as utterly wasteful. In fact, it was framed as the modern political equivalent of Marie Antoinette's infamous, "Let them eat cake."

Funny how things have changed.

Star-divide

No, the Minnesota legislature is still adamant that balancing the budget comes first and that there needs to be money for schools and police forces and firefighters before they work out funding for a new stadium. However, the difference this year lies in the fact that making that statement hasn't ended all conversation on the stadium topic. During the off-seasons the last few years, proposals regarding funding for a new Vikings stadium were dead almost as soon as a pious politician said the Vikings' stadium hopes were not a high priority during the current legislative session. That the current proposal, though universally unpopular, is still on life-support is a cautious sign of improvement. Very cautious.

 

While it's the easiest event to point to as the catalyst for a potential attitude shift toward a new Vikings stadium, the December 12, 2010 collapse of the Metrodome roof, it could be that this newfound willingness to at least talk about a new stadium is more a result of brinksmanship. There's nothing quite like a looming deadline to help everyone get serious about an issue that has been hanging over the state for several years-actually, the Vikings' stadium issue has been looming for close to a decade.

Six years ago in 2005 when Red McCombs was trying to sell the Vikings it was believed that a stadium deal would have to be forthcoming in order for him to sell the team. At that point, the Vikings had been trying to get a stadium deal done for several years. The Metrodome, though functional, was by NFL standards considered decrepit and incapable of producing the kind of revenue streams that newer stadiums do, making the team less desirable to potential owners. Despite the reticence of local government to address a Vikings stadium proposal, the Wilfs eventually purchased the Vikings but, years later, the team is still in an outmoded facility and still can't convince the legislature to take their stadium quest seriously, but now they have only one year left on their Metrodome lease.

In case you're curious, the price tag on a proposed Vikings stadium in Anoka County in 2005 was estimated at $600 million and they believed the construction project would take five years. If approved now, construction on a new stadium would likely still take four to five years depending on the site and any complications, but now the estimated cost is between $800 and $900 million. Delaying a stadium deal hasn't driven down the cost.

Whatever the most recent Vikings stadium proposal from Sen. Julie Rosen and Rep. Morrie Lanning might lack in popularity and specifics, it could make up for in sheer urgency because the Vikings' Metrodome lease expires in 2012. The Vikings, to their credit, haven't threatened to move the team to another city if there is no stadium bill passed this session-they don't have to. Media speculation has the team moving to Los Angeles or Las Vegas or even Oregon.

Gov. Mark Dayton seems to feel the growing urgency too, saying a Vikings stadium deal needs to be done this session. It should be interesting to see if this leads to friction between governor and legislature.

Clearly, there are a whole mess of issues involved in a massive undertaking like a stadium, especially one seeking public funding. So, over the course of a couple more posts, I'll look at some of those cluttered issues.

*If you have ever tried to beat our esteemed Mr. Christopher Gates in posting a news story, especially when material is in such short supply, then you know my pain.

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*If you have ever tried to beat our esteemed Mr. Christopher Gates in posting a news story, especially when material is in such short supply, then you know my pain.

One day, he literally beat me to two… TWO… stories. I genuinely considered emailing him a virus so his computer would shut down and I would have the opportunity to post a story one day. Then I thought about Blackhawks, and all the big guns and whatnot, and I changed my mind.

Ah, the failed attempt at returning Moss home. It was like '98 and '09 were about to make sweet, sweet love and give us a glorious '10 child.
www.dailynorseman.com- THE place for true Viking fanatics.

by KJSegall on Apr 12, 2011 1:04 AM CDT reply actions  

The man is a machine...

One cannot beat him, it just can’t be done LOL

Life being what it is, one dreams of revenge.
- Paul Gauguin

by Skol Girl on Apr 12, 2011 1:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

I just might have to do that.

If only to keep things interesting. Right now there isn’t that much to write about so in the spirit of the Daily Show’s fake news, maybe we should start some fake sports writing.

Life being what it is, one dreams of revenge.
- Paul Gauguin

by Skol Girl on Apr 12, 2011 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

I do that all the time

And he still beats me to a post.

It’s like he’s a….MINDREADER!!

With the 12th pick in the 2011 NFL Draft, the Minnesota Vikings select...

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by Ted Glover on Apr 12, 2011 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's using his Jedi mind tricks.

“These are not the stories you are looking for.”

Life being what it is, one dreams of revenge.
- Paul Gauguin

by Skol Girl on Apr 12, 2011 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

You know a blogger's good

When his co-bloggers bitch about the fact that he writes too much. DAMN YOU AND YOUR EFFICIENCY, GATES!! :)

Proud contributor to Daily Norseman and SB Nation Minnesota

by Eric J. Thompson on Apr 12, 2011 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

DAMN YOU TO HELL, SIR!!

And by Hell I mean Green Bay, of course.

With the 12th pick in the 2011 NFL Draft, the Minnesota Vikings select...

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by Ted Glover on Apr 12, 2011 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

OH NO!

WE’RE ALL GONNA GET BANNED!!!!!!

I’m seriously going to write a story about the results of my next backyard football game, and claim that they are Viking related because I wore my Culpepper story. NO WAY he gets the jump on THAT!

Ah, the failed attempt at returning Moss home. It was like '98 and '09 were about to make sweet, sweet love and give us a glorious '10 child.
www.dailynorseman.com- THE place for true Viking fanatics.

by KJSegall on Apr 12, 2011 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Damn me to Green Bay?

Damn it, Ted, I thought we were friends here.

SBNation Minnesota - For the greatest sports fans in the world.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!

by Christopher Gates on Apr 12, 2011 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

yah and if

the Gophers continue their mediocre at best ways that shiney new stadium is at best half full while a Vikings stadium will be packed even in mediocre and lean years

AKA : Revenge4Webb

by CitrusFLViking on Apr 12, 2011 1:08 AM CDT reply actions  

The Gophers new coach Jerry Kill...

Seems to be taking names and kicking asses. I have a feeling that the program is going to be on the rise.

Life being what it is, one dreams of revenge.
- Paul Gauguin

by Skol Girl on Apr 12, 2011 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

^^This

With the 12th pick in the 2011 NFL Draft, the Minnesota Vikings select...

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by Ted Glover on Apr 12, 2011 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just spitballin here,

But couldn’t we just rip off the roof and play in an open stadium. It would make things alot easier and we wouldn’t lose money because TCF bank has less seats. Then again, I don’t even know if other teams would come in the stadium, or if building codes would allow us to have no roof. While i’m throwing bs in the open, let’s go ahead and submit to mr. goodell that we want to play on tuesday, because lets be real here, we are the team to beat on a tuesday.

A big middle finger to Mr. Goodell.

by Alittlemore_cowbell on Apr 12, 2011 7:01 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

Open Air....

Seriously, whats the worst that happens?
I kinda have to ask the same as Cowbell here.
Screw the top, spend that money buying better turf, and open it up!

**Rupert for ProBowl 2012!**

by LeeleeX on Apr 12, 2011 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's not just the facility

it’s the revenue, or lack thereof, that said facility produces.

With the 12th pick in the 2011 NFL Draft, the Minnesota Vikings select...

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by Ted Glover on Apr 12, 2011 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

so a new stadium with about 1200 more seats will produce a bunch of extra revenue? Compared to the costs of remodeling the old and building new, I would say “NO”

by Chris3 on Apr 12, 2011 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Open air Vikings stadium in MN? Good luck with that.

The Vikings have said that they wouldn’t mind playing in an open air stadium and an open air stadium would be less expensive to build than a roofed facility. Since they play only eight regular season games at home, inclement weather conditions would be a issue for only a handful of games. However, the state of Minnesota wants any stadium that is built with public funds to have a roof so it can be used for other events throughout the year rather than simply during the football season. And, since the Vikings want two thirds of the cost of a new stadium to come from the state and a local equity partner, the state has the financial clout to stipulate a facility with a roof.

Life being what it is, one dreams of revenge.
- Paul Gauguin

by Skol Girl on Apr 12, 2011 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've been thinking about that

And if they build a new stadium away from the Metrodome, why can’t they build an open air facility for the Vikes and use the metrodome for such events like concerts? I know that a Super Bowl or Final Four is out of the question, but they can still hold plenty of events there, unless it would be too cost prohibitive.

With the 12th pick in the 2011 NFL Draft, the Minnesota Vikings select...

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by Ted Glover on Apr 12, 2011 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

True

An NFL outdoor football field (actually even some MLB ones like Target Field) in a cold weather climate is going to have heating elements under the turf so it isn’t like granite by mid-November. In a state like Minnesota where people hang out on frozen lakes just for fun in the winter (ice fishing, pond hockey, eelpout festival, Winter Carnival…), you’d think that, so long as the turf is sufficiently thawed, there will be no shortage of Minnesotans who will use the facility, whether or not it has a roof. We’re just that nuts.

Life being what it is, one dreams of revenge.
- Paul Gauguin

by Skol Girl on Apr 12, 2011 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

What's an eelpout festival?

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by Ted Glover on Apr 12, 2011 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

You've been out of the state too long :)

The eelpout is an ugly and kind of undesirable fish known for its slime. But for a brief time in the winter on Leech Lake in Walker Minnesota, the eelpout is king, complete with its own festival.

Life being what it is, one dreams of revenge.
- Paul Gauguin

by Skol Girl on Apr 12, 2011 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sadly, I have

I do remember smelt festivals and Lutefisk.

I’d like to forget Lutefisk, but I can’t. It’s like trying to get over Macho Grande.

Those wounds run…pretty deep.

"Lord I pray for the eyes of an eagle, the heart of a lion and the balls of a combat helicopter pilot."

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by Ted Glover on Apr 12, 2011 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, lutefisk is the sort of thing you don't forget.

Well, here’s a sight that should entertain and show that an outdoor stadium in Minnesota is no biggie. Yes, fun and excitement with the Eelpout Festival in Walker, MN.

Life being what it is, one dreams of revenge.
- Paul Gauguin

by Skol Girl on Apr 12, 2011 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

eelspout, smelt and lutefisk..

…flagged for abuse…all of you..

"the following statement is true:
the preceding statement was false" - george carlin

by BranFavrenton on Apr 20, 2011 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

Pierce Brosnan seems to like them.

I’d be curious to see a secret poll of all the players to see how many of them would like to freeze their tushes off for a good part of the year. I’m not sure how that would turn out, but I’m pretty sure I know how Kluwe would vote. One would think this would affect a few of the roster choices.

by abba7 on Apr 13, 2011 6:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

The first half of the season wouldn't be too bad...

Because August, September, and October generally have weather above freezing. Generally. However, this is Minnesota and the weather varies a lot. By November, December, and January however, your chances of freezing your tush off is pretty good. I’m not sure anyone really “likes” playing outside when it is that cold, but there are probably only four Vikings home games during the season that would would be played in winter weather.

I think you’re probably right that it would affect the roster if the Vikings became an outdoor team. I’ve heard it said that dome teams are built for speed. Outdoor teams must be built for punishment or something like that I guess.

Life being what it is, one dreams of revenge.
- Paul Gauguin

by Skol Girl on Apr 14, 2011 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

they usually underperform on grass

i think they are definitely a turf-built team..so outdoors would not be conducive imo w/ the current roster.. not sure what their recent record is on grass, but i know it aint pretty..

…speaking of pretty..who is that stranger without purple hair in your profile??

"the following statement is true:
the preceding statement was false" - george carlin

by BranFavrenton on Apr 18, 2011 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Nice to see you.

You may or may not be familiar with this but (and I am most definitely a non pro drug guy) but some of these musings strike me as being pretty funny. http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Mitch_Hedberg

by abba7 on Apr 19, 2011 2:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

quite hilarious..thx

…and in the spirit of mitch…

..so if you are a non pro drug guy, i guess your just an amateur drug guy who hasn’t made it big yet? (pause for laughs)

"the following statement is true:
the preceding statement was false" - george carlin

by BranFavrenton on Apr 19, 2011 7:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

I need help Favrenton

I chase these suckers with about 2 pots of coffee ( but I’m a hell of a worker) Should I contact Oprah?

by abba7 on Apr 20, 2011 3:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

safe as coffee..

…kinda like saying “safe as pot” on a bag of hash?

"the following statement is true:
the preceding statement was false" - george carlin

by BranFavrenton on Apr 20, 2011 7:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

Can I ask a question?

How boring is it where you live? lol

by cdubs3201 on Apr 13, 2011 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

it would also allow more open air events in the summer, as they wouldn’t be worried about tearing up Target Field during the baseball season

by Chris3 on Apr 12, 2011 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think you hit the problem on the head...

with the final comment about being cost prohibitive. Then you’re building a new stadium AND refurbishing an old one. Again, in the current political climate, that’s going to be a real issue. The one thing the Vikings have going for them is that they can claim that a new stadium, built partly with public funds, would also be for ‘public’ use- that is, more than just the Vikes.

Ah, the failed attempt at returning Moss home. It was like '98 and '09 were about to make sweet, sweet love and give us a glorious '10 child.
www.dailynorseman.com- THE place for true Viking fanatics.

by KJSegall on Apr 12, 2011 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well...

There are plenty of Minnesotans who, regardless of the season, would be willing to play whatever sport they love on a chilly field. If Minnesotans waited for good weather to get outside and do the things we enjoy, we would never leave the house. Off hand I could imagine an outdoor stadium being used for youth sports like football, soccer, and track-and-field programs. With a raised, temporary rink, you could even have hockey there.

Life being what it is, one dreams of revenge.
- Paul Gauguin

by Skol Girl on Apr 12, 2011 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

The trick is...

how much revenue would all that provide to, say, concerts and whatnot? I can’t imagine Lady Gaga would want to come and play a Feb gig in that situation. (Altho, she’s crazy. Maybe it would be OK.)

Ah, the failed attempt at returning Moss home. It was like '98 and '09 were about to make sweet, sweet love and give us a glorious '10 child.
www.dailynorseman.com- THE place for true Viking fanatics.

by KJSegall on Apr 12, 2011 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Most of the big concert tickets...

Like Lady Gaga or U2 are summer tours. Winter concerts are smaller venues like clubs or auditoriums, or they go to the southern hemisphere. Although, Lady Gaga and her meat bikini would have a better shelf-life in Minnesota in February.

Life being what it is, one dreams of revenge.
- Paul Gauguin

by Skol Girl on Apr 12, 2011 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

OK, fine.

Be all smart and logical and statistical about this, and make me look dumb. Yeah, no, that’s cool. glares

Ah, the failed attempt at returning Moss home. It was like '98 and '09 were about to make sweet, sweet love and give us a glorious '10 child.
www.dailynorseman.com- THE place for true Viking fanatics.

by KJSegall on Apr 12, 2011 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Which is a shame.

I always say that any up-north team that plays in a dome is losing a major, natural advantage. Think about the living hell teams from down south have in late season games in Chicago, Green Bay, New York, and Boston.

Really, I’d love to see a new stadium that’s open-air. But as you pointed out, then it’s useless for a good part of the year for anything but football, and that’s not going to fly right now.

Ah, the failed attempt at returning Moss home. It was like '98 and '09 were about to make sweet, sweet love and give us a glorious '10 child.
www.dailynorseman.com- THE place for true Viking fanatics.

by KJSegall on Apr 12, 2011 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Technically it wouldn't save money,

because we are paying for it with tax dollars. In fact, the state might lose money, because the revenue generated by the stadium and the surrounding city would easily cover the cost of the stadium in 2 years. On the turf issue, I am proud to say that we have the worst feild in the NFL. I am glad other teams can’t get their footing and they despise coming to our feild.

A big middle finger to Mr. Goodell.

by Alittlemore_cowbell on Apr 12, 2011 9:02 AM CDT reply actions  

The field was replaced before last season so only 11 teams played on that field. so saying it has the worst footing is a bit false. 2/3rds of the league has no idea. By comparison, the field turf that was put in is the same turf that Indy uses (which was voted towards the top)

by filbert33 on Apr 12, 2011 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

actually I lied … only 9 teams played on the field, Chicago and the Giants weren’t at home after the roof collapsed

by filbert33 on Apr 12, 2011 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

LA Vikings

I can’t see a stadium deal getting done. Minnesota Legislation has made no indiciation that this is seriously going to get passed. If anything, they’re speaking out against it. It’s just really bad timing to be asking for a stadium from a state that has major budget deficits and has strong desire to improve education and other areas of the state.

I also am not convince that most MN state reps understand that long term benefit of a stadium through tax revenue, and the majority of the population does not understand the concept either.

I can’t see a stadium getting done.

by cdubs3201 on Apr 12, 2011 12:32 PM CDT reply actions  

Really?

have you ever heard of a LA Viking? We are named the Vikings because the vikings lived in horribly cold weather (greenland and such), so us moving to cali would result in a name and culture change. Which would piss me off, see as how I have all of this purple gear in my house. Screw LA, Alabama, and everywhere else for that matter. We will get a stadium deal done, so don’t speculate so much.

A big middle finger to Mr. Goodell.

by Alittlemore_cowbell on Apr 12, 2011 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've heard of LA Viking

He’s actually a great commenter on our site…but yeah you’re right about everything else.

Proud contributor to Daily Norseman and SB Nation Minnesota

by Eric J. Thompson on Apr 12, 2011 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Zing!

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by Ted Glover on Apr 12, 2011 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Got me on that one ; )

I’m sure he would love for them to move to LA, but not me. HELL, I wouldn’t want them to move to Panama City (where I live), because even though it would save me money on going to games and such, the ritual of me going to Minnesota would die, along with some of my passion for the Vikings.

A big middle finger to Mr. Goodell.

by Alittlemore_cowbell on Apr 12, 2011 2:04 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Actually, I think the opposite is true

If I remember correctly, he is adamantly opposed to the Vikes moving to L.A.

Panama City, FL? I used to be stationed up at Ft. Rucker, and then Hurlburt Field, among other stops. Great area down that way, but it was getting too crowded for me by the time I PCS’d (at least Fort Walton Beach was).

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by Ted Glover on Apr 12, 2011 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Panama City has 5 high schools

Not counting the 3 bad ones. But I only live here for the fishing.

A big middle finger to Mr. Goodell.

by Alittlemore_cowbell on Apr 12, 2011 3:10 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Chicago

I live in Chicago, I’d much rather they move here and be the 2nd team in Chi, but there’s no evidence that it would happen. I just THINK they will move to LA, I don’t really care if they do or not either way. They’re still my favorite team and they’re out of my market. My situation doesn’t change if they stay or move.

by cdubs3201 on Apr 13, 2011 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Panama City, eh?

You’ve just been recruited for the party I will be organizing for Floridian Viking fans next season. (Make a joke about ‘if there’s a season’, and your invitation will be immediately rescinded.)

Ah, the failed attempt at returning Moss home. It was like '98 and '09 were about to make sweet, sweet love and give us a glorious '10 child.
www.dailynorseman.com- THE place for true Viking fanatics.

by KJSegall on Apr 12, 2011 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

of course, one could argue that there aren’t too many lakes in California in general, and L.A. in particular.

by Chris3 on Apr 12, 2011 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Minnesota Steam-Cleaned of Pro Football; Film at 11

“…and we have a request now for a song from the San Gabriel Valley region of LA County…”

Purple won’t be near you to comfort and cheer you,
when all those sad tears are falling, baby, from your eyes…
They’ll be in California, but a-my love (my love, my love)
So dog-gone willin’
So kiss them (I wanna see you kiss them. I wanna see you kiss them)
So go on and kiss them… goodbye!
Nana na-na,
Nana na-na,
Hey hey-ey, goodbye…

(Jerry Brown might even get Linda Ronstadt to do this one for those too blind to see the writing on the wall.)

by Elgar on Apr 12, 2011 4:38 PM CDT reply actions  

yeah, and in 20 yrs they will either move to Oakland or St. Louis

by Chris3 on Apr 12, 2011 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

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